WILLIAM BRANGHAM: In just a
few days, a music video online
called "This Is America" has
been viewed almost
55 million times.
As Jeffrey Brown explains,
the video has also set
off an intense debate
about violence and
race.
JEFFREY BROWN: The
video is beautifully
shot and choreographed,
infectious in its beat,
jarring in its
violence and imagery.
And it's clearly struck a nerve,
touching on painful racial
history and a contemporary
culture of mass entertainment
and mass murders.
It's the work of Donald Glover,
known for writing and acting
in the acclaimed TV series
"Atlanta," for his comedy,
and for the music he performs,
as here, under the pseudonym
Childish Gambino.
Here is an excerpt from "This
Is America," with a warning
for some of the violent images
it contains.
(MUSIC)
JEFFREY BROWN: The "This Is
America" video has elicited
all kinds of reaction, pro and
con.
We're joined now by Tre Johnson,
a contributor to "Rolling
Stone" magazine who just wrote
about the piece.
Tre, thanks for joining us.
Why -- first of all, in
general terms, why is it
striking such a chord?
TRE JOHNSON,
"Rolling Stone": Yes.
Thanks for having me on.
I think it's striking a chord
for a couple of reasons.
One, I think it represents a
pretty strong departure for
some of the work Donald Glover
had been doing that people
previously had known.
A lot of his work, as you
had noted, has been much
more in the comedy realm.
And this is a starker, darker
reflection of his take on
what is happening in American
society that isn't
played up for laughs.
I think some of it, too,
has to do with the fact that
you're watching what feels like
an almost endless loop of
chaos and violence, all of it
expended upon the black body in
particular, which, given the
climate that we're in nowadays,
is trending a lot for people.
JEFFREY BROWN: The shooting that
we saw evokes the Charleston
shooting at a black church
by Dylann Roof.
What other specific themes or
history are used in this video?
TRE JOHNSON: Yes, I would say
there's a couple of things.
There is obviously the shooting
that you just referenced.
There is also the shooting that
takes place in the beginning
of the video, where you see
a black guitarist who
is peacefully trying to
do some music, and he
is kind of mercilessly
executed right at the
beginning of the film.
In the background, too, I
think what's interesting
to watch is there is an
ever-evolving, increasing
chaos and violence that's
happening in the background.
Some of it is very reminiscent
of some of the protests and
riots that we have seen in
light of a lot of the black
victims that have fallen due to
police brutality and other types
of gun violence.
I think, too, what you're
also witnessing is just the
ways that some of this imagery
and some of these scenes and
tragedies have been captured.
So, one of the starkest images
I think that pop up the video
for me is when you see the
camera pan up to the rafters,
and there is a group of small
black children who are using
cell phones to capture a lot of
what's happening around them.
JEFFREY BROWN: There really is
a mix here of entertainment,
you know, the music and
the dancing, even fun at times,
with this - - with guns and
violence and all you were
just referencing.
But it is a kind of
in-your-face juxtaposition.
TRE JOHNSON: Yes, I think
that's purposeful, and I
think for a couple reasons.
And I write about
this in the article.
One is the idea that, you
know, I think, a lot of times,
black artists understand the
need to transform
their community's pain
and trauma into art.
And, sometimes, that
art looks very joyful,
because we're looking for
ways to uplift ourselves
and to heal from a lot of the
things that are visited upon
us in the community every
day.
I also think you look at,
like, kind of the - - the kind
of, like, the tension between
exploitation of black culture
and black pain for media and
popular culture consumption.
So, there is an aloofness around
just what people are sharing.
Sometimes, it's consumed
without the context or the care
about the actual pain and the
real-life circumstances that are
involved in the lives of black
artists and the communities
that they often represent, when
they're kind of taken in by
people who are several altitudes
removed from those kind of
day-to-day circumstances, too.
JEFFREY BROWN: You know, I
mentioned that there's been
a lot of negative reaction.
There's many, many layers
and strains of that.
Part of it, of course, is
questioning the violence and
how much that is necessary, how
much of it is shown.
Some people are also talk --
questioning Glover's motives and
his own background and what he's
bringing to this.
Explain what you're hearing in
terms of the critique out there.
TRE JOHNSON: Yes.
You know, I hear some
of those same critiques.
I think, for some folks,
the idea of seeing even
fictionalized black
violence on the screen
is unfortunate, because I think
a lot of people feel like we
have already become very viral
in seeing the image of black
bodies, either through police
footage, or, again, captured
on cell phones, looped through
our social media feeds and
across text message chains
all the time.
I think, too, again, you
know, I think what is jarring
about the video itself is that
you watch Glover's own kind of
facial contortions as he moves
from scene to scene to scene.
I think there's a desire to
see him kind of linger in the
despair and acknowledge the
deep pain that some of
these images are causing
for people, or how they
are resonant of things
that are happening that people
identify with all the time, in
terms of losing family members
or friends or other relatives
to gun violence itself.
And then I think, lastly, but
what I really challenge people
on is, you know, art is going
to make people
uncomfortable at times.
And I think what I really like
to do is focus on crediting how
much it is that black artists
are kind of choosing to take on
the hard labor of holding the
tension between entertainment
and a responsibility
to uplifting just more
nuanced conversations
about American life
that I think is often given
a pass to some of their
mainstream white peer artists.
And so, for me, I'm more
interested in the conversation
of, what is this art telling
us vs. what are the motivations
behind it, because I think
the conversation that we're
trying to have around what this
art is producing in front of
us is much more worthwhile than
trying to scrutinize and
parse what everyone's
individual motivations are.
JEFFREY BROWN: You know, just
briefly, in our last minute,
I mean, I can see a lot of
people wondering, just
what's going on here?
How much of it is Glover
making a serious statement, as
opposed to making a provocative
piece of entertainment himself?
TRE JOHNSON: Yes.
I mean, the tough answer might
be that it could be both.
He might want to actually
-- you know, I think
this is a subversion of
pop culture typically
being the thing that is an
escapism, that makes us feel
good and makes us feel happy.
I have been saying, watching
this season's "Atlanta," one
of the greatest things that
he's been doing about this
is changing the expectations
on what we're doing in terms
of engaging with traditional
pop culture mediums.
And so both "Atlanta" and
"This Is America" are choosing
to take on a darker, harsher
tone, which is, like,
confounding the expectations a
lot of people are expecting.
And I think, lastly, this fits
-- "This Is America," "Atlanta"
fits into a wider conversation
around pop culture or tapestry
that black artists are doing.
If you look at "Get Out,"
you look at "Lemonade,"
you look at even some of
the things that Solange
Knowles has done with "A Seat at
the Table," and Janelle Monae's
most recent album, they're
all looking to choose to
pick up the baton of having
America really look at a lot of
the contradictions around what
we say we value about black
lives, and then how we actually
address black entertainment
when it chooses to stand up
and represent the kind of like
chaotic, nuanced experiences
around black lives inside
of the wider society.
JEFFREY BROWN: All right,
Tre Johnson of "Rolling
Stone," thank you very much.
TRE JOHNSON: Thank you.