1
00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,066
AMNA NAWAZ: For years, 
advocates have argued that

2
00:00:03,066 --> 00:00:07,066
incarcerated people in 
the U.S. are overcharged 
for basic phone calls.

3
00:00:07,066 --> 00:00:12,000
It's a less well-known issue, 
but essential for prisoners and 
their families. This winter,

4
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,000
a new law went into effect aimed 
at capping the price of those 
calls in prison and jail. But

5
00:00:18,966 --> 00:00:22,600
even as prices have come down, 
a new report is sounding the 
alarm about the escalating

6
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:27,600
costs of essential non-phone 
services for video and 
electronic messaging as well.

7
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,000
Our communities correspondent 
in New Orleans, Roby Chavez,

8
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,000
has been looking into 
all of this as part of 
our series Searching for 
Justice, And he joins me now.

9
00:00:37,433 --> 00:00:38,966
Roby, it's great to see 
you. Thanks for joining us.

10
00:00:38,966 --> 00:00:41,833
So, bring us up to speed 
on these prices. Why does

11
00:00:41,833 --> 00:00:45,900
it cost so much for 
incarcerated people to keep 
in touch with their families?

12
00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:48,133
ROBY CHAVEZ: Well, look, 
Amna, it is a huge burden.

13
00:00:48,133 --> 00:00:52,033
Some families tell us 
they spend anywhere from 
$400 to $500 a month

14
00:00:52,033 --> 00:00:55,633
just to stay in touch with their 
incarcerated loved ones. Now,

15
00:00:55,633 --> 00:00:59,966
there are many issues that 
impact these high costs of these 
phone services. Number one on

16
00:00:59,966 --> 00:01:04,933
that is a lot of these prisons 
get commissions from their phone 
service providers. Advocates

17
00:01:06,833 --> 00:01:09,633
say they're getting 
kickbacks, and that is what 
keeping these prices high.

18
00:01:09,633 --> 00:01:14,633
There's also a lack of 
competition out there. 
Only a handful of providers 
are giving services

19
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,733
to prisons and jails across 
the country. And the one thing 
we hear from families is,

20
00:01:19,733 --> 00:01:24,100
in addition to the high 
cost of the calls, they 
also are inundated with

21
00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:28,833
extra fees just to deposit 
money or open or close one 
of these phone accounts.

22
00:01:28,833 --> 00:01:32,100
But there is help on the 
way. As you mentioned, 
federal regulations,

23
00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:37,100
including a law signed by 
President Joe Biden in January, 
will put a cap in place

24
00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:43,100
for in-state calls. 
Previously, there was a 
cap only on out-of-state 
calls. Back in 2018,

25
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,666
prices in jail ranged 
from $10 to $15 for a 
15-minute call. Today,

26
00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:55,033
it's a lot lower. The average 
is about $3 a call, but family 
members say it's still too much.

27
00:01:56,466 --> 00:01:58,333
Now, advocates warned that 
there are still higher

28
00:01:58,333 --> 00:02:02,200
prices for other communication 
services, like video calls,

29
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,200
e-mail-like services and using 
tablets, because all of those 
technologies remain unregulated.

30
00:02:08,833 --> 00:02:12,033
AMNA NAWAZ: And, Roby, 
why are these calls 
so important? I mean,

31
00:02:12,033 --> 00:02:15,700
what do we know about the 
connection between public 
safety and making sure

32
00:02:15,700 --> 00:02:18,866
that incarcerated people are 
connected to the outside world?

33
00:02:18,866 --> 00:02:23,733
ROBY CHAVEZ: There's a lot 
of research that shows that 
it leads to better outcomes,

34
00:02:23,733 --> 00:02:27,333
while people are in prison, 
better behavior, better health.

35
00:02:27,333 --> 00:02:29,366
And then, once people 
are released from prison,

36
00:02:29,366 --> 00:02:34,133
if they have these good 
support circles in place, 
then that makes reentry much

37
00:02:34,133 --> 00:02:38,866
more successful. And studies 
show that it lowers the 
recidivism rate. In fact,

38
00:02:38,866 --> 00:02:43,866
those people who had no contact 
with loved ones were six times 
more likely to end up in prison.

39
00:02:45,833 --> 00:02:49,333
Now, these high costs are such a 
burden to families, particularly 
in states like Louisiana,

40
00:02:49,333 --> 00:02:54,300
where more than 50 percent of 
the population is considered 
working poor. Those costs add

41
00:02:56,366 --> 00:02:59,900
up. We spoke with one family 
member who told us she spends 
about $300 a month just so her

42
00:03:02,366 --> 00:03:05,833
four daughters -- her 
four children, rather, can 
speak to their grandfather, 
who is incarcerated.

43
00:03:07,466 --> 00:03:10,133
The reason that matters 
is, because the burden 
falls on these families,

44
00:03:10,133 --> 00:03:15,133
they then become financially 
unstable and are more than 
likely not able to help their

45
00:03:17,133 --> 00:03:19,500
family members once they 
are released from prison. 
And the reason that that

46
00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:23,800
matters is because a lot of 
people who are released from 
prison have a lot of debt,

47
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,766
like $13,000 in fees and 
fines that were incurred 
when they were sentenced.

48
00:03:28,766 --> 00:03:32,566
AMNA NAWAZ: So, Roby, the 
prices for phone calls have been 
coming down. That is good news.

49
00:03:32,566 --> 00:03:35,100
But what about for 
other services to stay

50
00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:37,500
connected? Are families still 
being overcharged on those?

51
00:03:39,133 --> 00:03:41,633
ROBY CHAVEZ: Yes, Amna, 
as we wait for those new 
regulations to be put

52
00:03:41,633 --> 00:03:45,933
in place by late next 
year, advocates are already 
warning that some of the

53
00:03:45,933 --> 00:03:49,600
costs have already 
shifted to other forms of 
communication and technology.

54
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,600
In fact, a report was 
released last week by the 
Prison Policy Initiative. 
They warned that prison

55
00:03:56,533 --> 00:03:59,366
telecom companies are evading 
regulations and making 
money off of those kinds of

56
00:03:59,366 --> 00:04:04,333
services like text-based 
electronic messaging, 
similar to e-mail, but 
comes with limitations.

57
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:11,133
The cost to send those 
e-messages varies. It could 
be free to 50 cents in places

58
00:04:11,133 --> 00:04:16,133
like Alaska and Arkansas. At 
least 43 state prisons now 
offer some type of electronic

59
00:04:18,033 --> 00:04:22,000
messaging options. Again, 
these type of messaging, 
it's not like regular e-mail,

60
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,033
because it lacks certain 
features, has arbitrary 
restrictions like character

61
00:04:26,033 --> 00:04:29,800
limits. And attachments 
like photos and videos, 
those all cost extra.

62
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,233
So most advocates believe we're 
moving in the right direction, 
but there are still some gaps.

63
00:04:34,233 --> 00:04:39,166
AMNA NAWAZ: That is our 
communities correspondent, 
Roby Chavez, joining 
us from New Orleans.

64
00:04:39,166 --> 00:04:40,833
Roby, thank you so much.

65
00:04:40,833 --> 00:04:45,400
And you can read more of 
Roby's reporting online 
at PBS.org/NewsHour.