1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,300 JUDY WOODRUFF: We return now to the negotiations over border security spending and another 2 00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:06,833 looming federal government shutdown. 3 00:00:06,833 --> 00:00:11,833 For that, I spoke just a short time ago to Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota. 4 00:00:13,866 --> 00:00:17,266 He is the Senate majority whip, his party's second highest ranking position. 5 00:00:18,700 --> 00:00:20,700 Senator Thune, thank you very much for joining us. 6 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:24,733 So, first of all, how confident are you that President Trump is going to seen on to this 7 00:00:24,733 --> 00:00:25,733 agreement? 8 00:00:25,733 --> 00:00:27,200 SEN. 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,133 JOHN THUNE (R), South Dakota: Well, Good evening, Judy. 10 00:00:29,133 --> 00:00:33,266 Pretty confident, but,you know, of course, until we actually have the final text, and 11 00:00:35,366 --> 00:00:37,400 the president comes out and says something definitively, I think we're just going to 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,266 wait and let him make that announcement himself, but the indications are positive. 13 00:00:44,333 --> 00:00:47,666 I think that he probably realizes this is the best deal he could get under the circumstances. 14 00:00:48,833 --> 00:00:50,900 And the negotiations have concluded. 15 00:00:50,900 --> 00:00:55,600 We have got to avoid another government shutdown, which would happen at midnight Friday, if 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,733 this deal isn't agreed to. 17 00:00:57,733 --> 00:01:01,633 So I'm hopeful that the president will come around and at some point announce his intention 18 00:01:03,633 --> 00:01:06,366 to get behind this, but, like everybody else, he wants to see the details. 19 00:01:06,366 --> 00:01:10,900 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, as we all know, the president didn't get as much money as he wanted for 20 00:01:10,900 --> 00:01:14,133 a physical barrier, a wall. 21 00:01:14,133 --> 00:01:16,200 And he's saying he's going to find that money elsewhere. 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,200 How much other money is available to him, and from where? 23 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,300 SEN. 24 00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:24,933 JOHN THUNE: I think that what they're talking about doing -- and, of course, this would 25 00:01:24,933 --> 00:01:29,933 be not in the context of an emergency declaration, which would be a different, entirely, conversation, 26 00:01:32,266 --> 00:01:35,466 but I think in terms of unobligated balances, reprogramming that could occur, that the administration 27 00:01:37,366 --> 00:01:40,300 could find, the dollars that they could move around a little bit, I'm not sure exactly 28 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:42,400 what that number is. 29 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,466 We have heard estimates, but I think it would significantly increase the amount that he 30 00:01:45,466 --> 00:01:47,566 could put toward border security. 31 00:01:47,566 --> 00:01:51,600 How much would go toward a wall, I don't know, but I think the hard number that we know about 32 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,666 is the one that's in there. 33 00:01:53,666 --> 00:01:57,866 And that's the 1.4 or thereabout billion dollars that he can use for the physical structure 34 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,066 that would be along the border. 35 00:02:01,066 --> 00:02:03,900 But there's more to it, obviously, than that. 36 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:07,833 And I know that he's interested in getting as much funding as he can to build as much 37 00:02:07,833 --> 00:02:09,900 of that structure as possible. 38 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:13,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we have been hearing perhaps as much as a couple of billion dollars 39 00:02:13,366 --> 00:02:14,966 the president would be trying to find elsewhere. 40 00:02:14,966 --> 00:02:18,533 Do you have any idea where the money could come from? 41 00:02:18,533 --> 00:02:20,500 SEN. 42 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:23,833 JOHN THUNE: Well, there are several accounts that have been mentioned, and -- but, you 43 00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:27,533 know, I don't know exactly where they're talking about going to get it. 44 00:02:27,533 --> 00:02:32,533 There, of course, has been some talk about Defense Department dollars and perhaps being 45 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:35,766 able to reprogram some of those. 46 00:02:35,766 --> 00:02:40,766 I think, in the end, to get significant amounts of money, he would probably use the emergency 47 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:42,966 declaration. 48 00:02:42,966 --> 00:02:44,333 I don't know exactly what he's going to do at this point. 49 00:02:44,333 --> 00:02:47,866 And I think it's probably anybody's guess. 50 00:02:47,866 --> 00:02:51,833 But I know that his administration is looking carefully at these various accounts to try 51 00:02:51,833 --> 00:02:55,866 to determine if there are additional dollars that could be added to the amount that's going 52 00:02:55,866 --> 00:02:57,900 to be appropriated by Congress. 53 00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:02,533 How much that is and where exactly it comes from, I hate to at this point speculate about 54 00:03:02,533 --> 00:03:04,566 that. 55 00:03:04,566 --> 00:03:05,266 JUDY WOODRUFF: Is that something congressional Republicans would support? 56 00:03:05,266 --> 00:03:07,333 SEN. 57 00:03:07,333 --> 00:03:11,200 JOHN THUNE: It depends a lot on where it comes from, and, again, and which authority he would 58 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,300 use. 59 00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:16,066 A lot of our colleagues are very sympathetic to what the president's trying to accomplish. 60 00:03:16,066 --> 00:03:21,066 They want to ensure that he has dollars to allocate to border security and to deal with 61 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,833 the crisis there. 62 00:03:23,833 --> 00:03:27,466 But, at the same time, you know, what authority gets used, where the dollars might be moved 63 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:32,600 around from will have a lot to do with, I think, the kind of support that he might enjoy 64 00:03:33,466 --> 00:03:34,633 among Republicans in the Senate. 65 00:03:34,633 --> 00:03:37,100 JUDY WOODRUFF: Separate question, Senator. 66 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:41,100 Do you see this agreement as expanding ICE detention, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, 67 00:03:42,533 --> 00:03:44,300 and, if so, by how much? 68 00:03:44,300 --> 00:03:46,366 SEN. 69 00:03:46,366 --> 00:03:49,966 JOHN THUNE: I think -- and, of course, there have been a lot of discussion about the numbers, 70 00:03:49,966 --> 00:03:54,300 and both sides have talked about a slightly different number, but I think it's all in 71 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:59,266 the ballpark of the 40,000 to 50,000 bed range, which would be comparable to what we have 72 00:04:01,233 --> 00:04:04,800 today, with some flexibility to go up maybe a little bit beyond that. 73 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,833 I have seen numbers in the range of 58,000 or so. 74 00:04:07,833 --> 00:04:12,833 I think the flexibility is important, but I think in terms of the overall amount that 75 00:04:15,366 --> 00:04:19,133 would be allocated toward detention of illegals who are here and criminal aliens in some cases, 76 00:04:21,033 --> 00:04:23,400 it is comparable to what we're looking at today. 77 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,300 JUDY WOODRUFF: How much of a priority is that for you, Senator? 78 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:27,833 SEN. 79 00:04:27,833 --> 00:04:30,233 JOHN THUNE: Well, I think it's important that we not cap it. 80 00:04:30,233 --> 00:04:35,066 I was very concerned about the proposal the Democrats put forward that would have, in 81 00:04:35,066 --> 00:04:36,966 law, capped that amount. 82 00:04:36,966 --> 00:04:41,333 I think previous administrations have had the flexibility, based upon what the need 83 00:04:41,333 --> 00:04:46,333 is, to be able to move some money around and make sure that there's enough, you know, detention 84 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,533 beds for that population. 85 00:04:49,533 --> 00:04:52,600 And I think it's an issue that's a part of this discussion. 86 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,600 I think, for a lot of our members, the physical structure, the barrier, is probably the number 87 00:04:59,533 --> 00:05:03,466 one priority, but this obviously is a close second in the minds of a lot of people. 88 00:05:03,466 --> 00:05:07,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Senator, still another subject, and that is Democrats are saying 89 00:05:07,033 --> 00:05:12,033 they would like to find money to give back pay to federal contract employees who were 90 00:05:13,233 --> 00:05:15,833 affected by the government shutdown. 91 00:05:15,833 --> 00:05:17,266 They are pushing for this. 92 00:05:17,266 --> 00:05:19,033 Where do Republicans, where do you stand on that? 93 00:05:19,033 --> 00:05:21,066 SEN. 94 00:05:21,066 --> 00:05:23,266 JOHN THUNE: Well, I -- what I have maintained throughout this entire process is, when you 95 00:05:23,266 --> 00:05:26,633 have a government shutdown, nobody wins, and there are a lot of people who are harmed by 96 00:05:26,633 --> 00:05:28,733 that. 97 00:05:28,733 --> 00:05:30,233 And you want to make sure that you do everything you can to make them whole. 98 00:05:30,233 --> 00:05:34,166 And I guess I would include contractors in that group. 99 00:05:34,166 --> 00:05:37,700 The question, I guess, is how best to do that. 100 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:42,700 People who enter into contracts with the government aren't always working, and would they have 101 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:44,633 been working? 102 00:05:44,633 --> 00:05:46,633 What's the duration of some of those contracts? 103 00:05:46,633 --> 00:05:49,700 There are a lot of questions that I think have to be answered to figure out how you 104 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:53,566 would reimburse or make whole government contractors. 105 00:05:53,566 --> 00:05:55,433 There is a reason they're contractors. 106 00:05:55,433 --> 00:05:57,000 They're not as federal employees. 107 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,933 They're not full-time federal workers. 108 00:05:58,933 --> 00:06:02,833 They are working on contract, and sometimes those contracts go in spurts. 109 00:06:02,833 --> 00:06:07,833 There may be times when they're heavily engaged in some activity on behalf of the federal 110 00:06:08,933 --> 00:06:11,000 government, but at other times they're not. 111 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,700 So I think making those determinations makes this a little bit more this a little bit more 112 00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:18,700 complicated, but I think there is an interest certainly among a lot of members on both sides 113 00:06:20,666 --> 00:06:24,033 of the aisle in seeing that people who are - - depend upon the federal government and 114 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:27,600 were harmed by the shutdown, that they be taken care of. 115 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,566 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Republicans would be open to the idea, you think? 116 00:06:29,566 --> 00:06:31,533 SEN. 117 00:06:31,533 --> 00:06:32,600 JOHN THUNE: Well, I think there are -- yes, I think there are Republicans who are open 118 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,100 to that idea, yes. 119 00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:37,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally, when do you think this could pass the Congress, if -- assuming 120 00:06:37,366 --> 00:06:38,766 it keeps moving as it is? 121 00:06:38,766 --> 00:06:40,800 SEN. 122 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,600 JOHN THUNE: If we get the paperwork filed by late this afternoon or early evening, it 123 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,766 would set up, I think, potentially votes tomorrow in the Senate. 124 00:06:47,766 --> 00:06:49,100 We could move first. 125 00:06:49,100 --> 00:06:50,366 The House could move first. 126 00:06:50,366 --> 00:06:52,400 I don't think that's been determined yet. 127 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,700 But if the Senate did move first, you know, we have to have consent to do that. 128 00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:59,900 And if we have consent, we could move fairly quickly and send it to the House, and they 129 00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:02,133 could process it sometime tomorrow. 130 00:07:02,133 --> 00:07:07,133 But that assumes, again, that the paperwork gets wrapped up, and that they get the details, 131 00:07:09,133 --> 00:07:11,333 the actual legislative text, made available to members for them to have an opportunity 132 00:07:11,333 --> 00:07:12,566 to review. 133 00:07:12,566 --> 00:07:14,100 And, hopefully, that will happen soon. 134 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:15,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: And then we wait to see what the president does. 135 00:07:15,733 --> 00:07:16,966 SEN. 136 00:07:16,966 --> 00:07:18,900 JOHN THUNE: And then we will wait and see. 137 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:19,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, Senator John Thune, thank you very much. 138 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:20,600 SEN. 139 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:20,733 JOHN THUNE: Thanks, Judy.