WEBVTT 00:02.066 --> 00:04.133 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% JUDY WOODRUFF: As we reported earlier, the American Civil Liberties Union says the Trump 00:04.133 --> 00:08.866 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% administration has continued to separate migrant children from their parents at the southwest 00:09.600 --> 00:10.600 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% U.S. border. 00:10.600 --> 00:11.833 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% Amna Nawaz has our report. 00:11.833 --> 00:13.833 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% AMNA NAWAZ: That's right, Judy. 00:13.833 --> 00:17.366 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% Now, Lee Gelernt is the lead attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union. 00:17.366 --> 00:22.366 align:left position:0%,start line:73.33% size:100% And he's representing the separated families, and can tell us more about today's court filing. 00:23.500 --> 00:24.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% Lee Gelernt, welcome back to the "NewsHour." 00:24.800 --> 00:26.800 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% Let's start with that number. 00:26.800 --> 00:30.933 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% The exact number is 911 children you have identified in this court filing as having 00:30.933 --> 00:35.933 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% been separated from their families between June 28 of last year and June 29 of this year. 00:36.700 --> 00:37.966 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% Start with that. 00:37.966 --> 00:38.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% How did you arrive at that number? 00:38.800 --> 00:40.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:93.33% size:87.5% What's that based on? 00:40.466 --> 00:41.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:80% size:87.5% LEE GELERNT, Attorney, American Civil Liberties Union: That's right. 00:41.966 --> 00:45.566 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% And so that's not a number that we discovered on our own. 00:45.566 --> 00:48.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% We would have no way of doing that. 00:48.000 --> 00:51.833 align:left position:0%,start line:73.33% size:100% Those are numbers the court ordered the government to give us, and the latest numbers we got 00:51.833 --> 00:53.633 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% from the government were 911. 00:53.633 --> 00:56.966 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% We get an Excel spreadsheet that shows the separations. 00:56.966 --> 00:59.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% And they have been going up monthly. 00:59.166 --> 01:03.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:73.33% size:87.5% And the really shocking thing about this is that the government is claiming this they're 01:03.366 --> 01:08.100 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% doing this for the children's benefit because the parents have a criminal history. 01:08.100 --> 01:12.833 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% What we expected to see from the government were very serious abuses against the children 01:12.833 --> 01:15.300 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% themselves. 01:15.300 --> 01:18.866 align:left position:0%,start line:73.33% size:100% What it turns out is, they're separating children for things as minor as the parent's old traffic 01:19.333 --> 01:21.266 align:left position:37.5%,start line:93.33% size:62.5% offense. 01:21.266 --> 01:25.066 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% In one case, it says misdemeanor nonviolence offense for $5 or disorderly conduct or a 01:27.033 --> 01:28.533 align:left position:37.5%,start line:93.33% size:62.5% DUI. 01:28.533 --> 01:31.600 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% Shocking they're doing this, and for such minor crimes. 01:31.600 --> 01:35.233 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% And what we have also found out is that the children are younger than even first time 01:35.233 --> 01:37.366 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% last summer. 01:37.366 --> 01:41.533 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% Little babies and toddlers are being separated on the pretext that the parents are a danger 01:42.200 --> 01:44.300 align:left position:37.5%,start line:93.33% size:62.5% to them. 01:44.300 --> 01:46.266 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% AMNA NAWAZ: So, I want to dig into those a little bit more, Lee, but let's start with 01:46.266 --> 01:50.066 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% what the acting secretary of homeland security has said in public. 01:50.066 --> 01:54.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:73.33% size:87.5% He has testified that, of course, separations do continue, but only in extraordinarily rare 01:54.900 --> 01:59.166 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% circumstances and only, as you mentioned, when it is in the best interests of the child, 01:59.166 --> 02:01.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% when the child is in some way at risk. 02:01.600 --> 02:03.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% And we know that there are cases out there. 02:03.633 --> 02:07.866 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% I have seen them myself, well-documented cases of child smuggling or abuse or neglect. 02:07.866 --> 02:12.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:80% size:87.5% How many of those 911 cases would you say fall under that category? 02:12.300 --> 02:15.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% LEE GELERNT: Yes, so there's a lot in there. 02:15.433 --> 02:19.833 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% Let me pull it apart, because I think that the administration is really being misleading 02:19.833 --> 02:22.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:93.33% size:87.5% in those statements. 02:22.400 --> 02:26.166 align:left position:0%,start line:73.33% size:100% To begin with, you can look at it percentage-wise or you can look at how many children are being 02:26.766 --> 02:28.000 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% separated. 02:28.000 --> 02:30.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% We now know over 900 since the injunction. 02:30.033 --> 02:31.433 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% And these are little children. 02:31.433 --> 02:34.200 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% Even one impermissible separation would be too much. 02:34.200 --> 02:38.833 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% And I will let the public judge for themselves whether 900 little children being separated 02:38.833 --> 02:41.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% after the court's injunction is too much. 02:41.666 --> 02:45.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:73.33% size:87.5% The second thing I want to point out is, it's apples and oranges to talk about trafficking 02:45.500 --> 02:47.700 align:left position:37.5%,start line:93.33% size:62.5% here. 02:47.700 --> 02:50.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:73.33% size:87.5% These are cases where the government admits it's the parent, but says, we still need to 02:50.966 --> 02:53.066 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% separate because of danger. 02:53.066 --> 02:57.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:73.33% size:87.5% Yet, when we look at the government's reasons, we are seeing things like traffic offense, 02:57.133 --> 03:00.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% misdemeanor thefts, disorderly conduct. 03:00.166 --> 03:04.633 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% And the last point I want the stress is that we told the court from day one, if the child 03:04.633 --> 03:08.633 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% is genuinely in danger, or there is objective reason to believe the child is in danger, 03:08.633 --> 03:12.100 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% we, of course, want you to separate the parent and child. 03:12.100 --> 03:14.066 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% That's not what's going on. 03:14.066 --> 03:18.100 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% We have had independent experts look at these cases and say, at most, there's a handful 03:20.433 --> 03:23.600 align:left position:0%,start line:73.33% size:100% of cases that might warrant further investigation, that, overwhelmingly, these are cases that 03:25.033 --> 03:27.233 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% should never even have been considered for separation. 03:27.233 --> 03:32.233 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% We don't separate a parent and child for -- because the parent has a disorderly conduct offense 03:32.833 --> 03:35.366 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% in the past. 03:35.366 --> 03:37.833 align:left position:0%,start line:73.33% size:100% Imagine how many American parents would lose their children if those are the kind of offenses 03:37.833 --> 03:39.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% that would warrant you losing your child. 03:39.933 --> 03:43.200 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% AMNA NAWAZ: But I want to pick up what you said there about a handful of cases, you say, 03:43.200 --> 03:47.133 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% based on the experts who have reviewed them think those could have been in the best interest 03:47.133 --> 03:49.133 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% of the child. 03:49.133 --> 03:52.566 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% And just overall, for some context, those 911 separations happened at the same time 03:52.566 --> 03:56.166 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% that over 430,000 people crossed the southern border. 03:56.166 --> 03:57.866 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% That's just for some context. 03:57.866 --> 03:59.666 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% Tell me, though, what we know about those children. 03:59.666 --> 04:02.066 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% How many of them are still in U.S. government custody? 04:02.066 --> 04:04.000 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% How many of them have been reunited with families? 04:04.000 --> 04:05.000 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% Do you know? 04:05.000 --> 04:07.600 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% LEE GELERNT: We don't know. 04:07.600 --> 04:09.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% That's one of the troubling things. 04:09.666 --> 04:12.633 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% And I think that's one of the parts of this story that needs to be told, is that we are 04:12.633 --> 04:14.333 align:left position:0%,start line:93.33% size:100% not getting the information. 04:14.333 --> 04:16.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:80% size:87.5% The service providers for the children are not getting the information. 04:16.933 --> 04:20.400 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% In many cases, the children's facilities are not getting the information. 04:20.400 --> 04:22.466 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% So we don't know how many have been reunified. 04:22.466 --> 04:26.933 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% We know that many have not, most have not, and some parents have even been deported without 04:26.933 --> 04:29.100 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% their children. 04:29.100 --> 04:32.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:73.33% size:87.5% So what we are going to be asking the court for is to clarify the standards by which you 04:32.433 --> 04:37.033 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% can separate a child and also that there be more information flow, because we need to 04:37.033 --> 04:40.300 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% know when these separations occur, where the parent is. 04:40.300 --> 04:44.966 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% Often, the child will be dumped into a facility, and the service providers won't even be told 04:44.966 --> 04:48.766 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% that the parent is in the U.S., much less the reason for the separation or where the 04:48.766 --> 04:50.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:93.33% size:87.5% child was placed. 04:50.233 --> 04:52.200 align:left position:0%,start line:86.67% size:100% AMNA NAWAZ: A lot of questions still to be answered then. 04:52.200 --> 04:53.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% LEE GELERNT: Where the parent was placed. 04:53.233 --> 04:55.233 align:left position:25%,start line:93.33% size:75% Excuse me. 04:55.233 --> 04:57.233 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100% AMNA NAWAZ: Lee Gelernt of the ACLU, thank you very much for being with us tonight. 04:57.233 --> 04:58.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:86.67% size:87.5% LEE GELERNT: Thank you for having me.