JUDY WOODRUFF: Now the fallout
from sexual harassment scandals
and the calls for change.

We are continuing our own series
of discussions with women across
American society, and with

differing perspectives.

Tonight, we hear from one of the
most prominent women calling the
shots in television filmmaking.

Sheila Nevins is the
president of HBO Documentary
Films, and has green-lit
more than 1,000 films

over three decades. Before that,
she worked at ABC, CBS, and PBS.

She's also the author of the
new book, "You Don't Look Your
Age and Other Fairy Tales."

I spoke with her earlier today.

Sheila Nevins, thank
you for talking with us.

ÑMD-BOÑSHEILA NEVINS,
President, HBO Documentary
Films: Thank you for having me.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Were you
surprised by the Harvey
Weinstein revelations?

SHEILA NEVINS: Yes. Yes.

JUDY WOODRUFF: You had dealt
with him professionally?

SHEILA NEVINS: Yes. Yes.

I wasn't surprised in any way
by temperament or anger or
certain kind of language. But

I was surprised by the physical
stories, the stories of sexual,
physical abuse. I really

was surprised.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What
have you known of sexual
harassment in this industry?

SHEILA NEVINS: You know, I'm
old. I grew up and the rules
of the game were different.

I didn't know -- I really didn't
know that I wasn't to be touched
and manhandled. I finally

understand the
meaning of the word.

I really didn't know what that
was. I thought, to succeed, I
had to be somewhat seductive

and complicit. So I would
argue that, in the '60s, when
I got out of Yale and I got out

of school and I wanted
a job, I think I wasn't
abused because I was active
sexually and complicit.

I now have sort of reformed all
of that, because I realize what
I consider to be acceptable

was really abuse, and
I recovered because I
wanted a job so badly.

But now I feel everything is out
of hand and that there is just
-- it's enough. It's enough,

and women have to be together.
I didn't have any women to go
to. I didn't have anyone to

cry to, but now I think
when you cry together,
you make a louder noise,
and I feel like I'm

happy to add my voice.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Did you feel or
did you know there were other
women going through the same

thing when you were?

SHEILA NEVINS: No, because
when I began in this business,
there were very few women in

the business, so there was no
way that I would know. It was
a man's world and the only way

- - I didn't -- no, I
didn't know. I didn't know.

I mean, I used to sit at
screenings at unknown,
unnamed, I should say,
networks, and someone

put their hands down my back.
Or I -- I didn't know to remove
them. I thought if I removed

them, someone else would get
my job. But it was the truth
in the '60s. It was the truth.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Is it
accurate to say that you
were suffering in silence?

SHEILA NEVINS: In retrospect,
it intimidated me, but I was
so ambitious, that I pushed

that aside.

I mean, I hurt. It hurt. I mean,
it hurt mentally in a way, but
I didn't know. I didn't know.

You know, it's like getting T.B.
before there's a shot for it
or getting polio before there's

Salk. I didn't know.

How was I to know? Who was my
role model? Who was I going to
look to? There was no Gloria

Steinem. There was no women's
movement. There was no one
telling me that I was equal. I

actually thought I wasn't equal.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Is there
any doubt in your mind
that things have changed?

SHEILA NEVINS: Yes, there's
no doubt in my mind that
things have changed.

I think it has to do with the
group of voices, as opposed to
solos. Solo is a very lonely

thing. I don't know how to
sing, but I have to use that
word. Solo, you do what you can

do. Together, you're warriors,
and I think it makes a big
difference. I wasn't Wonder

Woman.

JUDY WOODRUFF: How has it
changed? Because there are still
these stories that are coming

out.

SHEILA NEVINS: I think that
men are put on warning, you
know, keep off the grass sign

now, for want of a better thing.

You can't. You can't anymore,
and you should never have. But
now you can't, because your

job is in jeopardy, your
life is in jeopardy, your
career is in jeopardy.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But some
of the Harvey Weinstein
allegations are pretty recent.

SHEILA NEVINS: That's so
criminal as to not even be
part of the conversation.

In other words, I always think
that whatever that was, was --
it wasn't just intimidation.

It was brutal. It was
physical. It was -- it seems
criminal. I don't know.

But I think the abuse,
the sexual abuse, the
harassment, it's enough.
It's time. It's time

women get together and say,
enough. If it happened to you,
it happened to me, it happened

to her. It's not going
to happen to my daughter.

JUDY WOODRUFF: As head
of HBO Documentaries,
you made the decision,
you and your colleagues,

to cancel the series by Mark
Halperin, political journalist
working now for NBC, allegations

about him.

Was there any hesitation
about making that decision?

SHEILA NEVINS: I can't answer
that, because, in fact, I'm
-- that's not my area. I don't

really know of that decision.
I mean, I know of the decision,
of course, but I don't know

what led to make that decision.

But I think HBO has become a
place of zero tolerance. There
are a lot of women in power.

And I think we would have
been angry had it gone ahead.

JUDY WOODRUFF: You said,
I saw in one interview,
that there weren't human
resources departments.

SHEILA NEVINS: No, there was
no one to go to. There was
no -- I don't know the word

sexual harassment. I
don't think I knew it
until about 25 years ago.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But there are
human resources departments
now, and yet women are saying

they don't feel safe necessarily
going there. They worry they
are still going to have a

job in jeopardy if
they go forward.

SHEILA NEVINS: They have to go
forward. There have to be enough
women in power that if you

go forward on behalf of what
happened with a male colleague,
that everyone will join

you, and you will
not lose your job.

There may have been a time when
you were afraid you would lose
your job. But I don't really

know. I don't know. It's
different. The rules
are different. There
is a vaccine against

it now. We're not going to get
that disease anymore. We're
just not going to get it.

JUDY WOODRUFF: You really do
think things have changed?

SHEILA NEVINS: I absolutely
think it. I absolutely think it.

I think that's what revolutions
are about. It's been quiet
for a long time. I mean, it's

very sad, really, that women
have been subjected to that for
so long and have had to be so

silent about it because there
was no place to go. It's hard
being a woman in the workplace.

Harassment is very deep.

It's emotional. It doesn't only
have to be sexual. It can go
into other things. Not being

heard, not being reckoned with,
not being treated equally,
not getting equal pay. This

catapults sort of all those
other things into the spotlight.
Men will be careful. They will

be careful of us. They will
respect us. They won't hurt us.

JUDY WOODRUFF: I'm asking you
about this, Sheila Nevins,
because I still hear young

women saying the workplace
is still so unbalanced,
with men holding by far
the balance of power

and women not, that there's
not a check on so many
men who feel they can...

SHEILA NEVINS: I don't think
it's going to happen again.
A man would have to be pretty

stupid to step
forward right now.

I mean, he would have to be
pretty -- he really would have
to be a psychopath, because he

would have to be willing to
lose everything he has, his
scripts, his jobs, his wife, his

respectability.

I don't think -- I don't know
where they work. I know where
I work, but I think that there

is -- it's the
time to fight back.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So what is your
advice today to young women
who experience something and

aren't sure they
should come forward?

SHEILA NEVINS: They have to
come forward, because there
are enough women in power now

that can hire them, that can
listen to them, and there are
enough people in positions of

- - I mean, human resources
sounds like a funny word,
but there are enough
people in the workplace

who will join with
you and fight back.

You're not alone. Women are not
alone anymore. They're just not
alone. And I think -- I wouldn't

be talking to you if I thought
that I was alone. I feel like
you and I are on the same

page.

You know, at a certain
point, you're old enough
in this business that
no guy's going to make

a pass at you, OK? But that
shouldn't be the reason, should
it? And I think that equality

that you get as you get older,
because you're not a -- quote
-- "sex object" anymore, has

to pervade youth and
young women, and it will.

It just will. It has to. Come
to us. We will help them.

(LAUGHTER)

JUDY WOODRUFF: For
sure, come to us.

Sheila Nevins,
thank you very much.

SHEILA NEVINS: Thank you for
asking me these questions.
I really appreciate it.