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JUDY WOODRUFF: Now the fallout
from sexual harassment scandals
and the calls for change.

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We are continuing our own series
of discussions with women across
American society, and with

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differing perspectives.

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Tonight, we hear from one of the
most prominent women calling the
shots in television filmmaking.

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Sheila Nevins is the
president of HBO Documentary
Films, and has green-lit
more than 1,000 films

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over three decades. Before that,
she worked at ABC, CBS, and PBS.

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She's also the author of the
new book, "You Don't Look Your
Age and Other Fairy Tales."

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I spoke with her earlier today.

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Sheila Nevins, thank
you for talking with us.

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ÑMD-BOÑSHEILA NEVINS,
President, HBO Documentary
Films: Thank you for having me.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Were you
surprised by the Harvey
Weinstein revelations?

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SHEILA NEVINS: Yes. Yes.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: You had dealt
with him professionally?

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SHEILA NEVINS: Yes. Yes.

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I wasn't surprised in any way
by temperament or anger or
certain kind of language. But

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I was surprised by the physical
stories, the stories of sexual,
physical abuse. I really

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was surprised.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: What
have you known of sexual
harassment in this industry?

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SHEILA NEVINS: You know, I'm
old. I grew up and the rules
of the game were different.

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I didn't know -- I really didn't
know that I wasn't to be touched
and manhandled. I finally

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understand the
meaning of the word.

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I really didn't know what that
was. I thought, to succeed, I
had to be somewhat seductive

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and complicit. So I would
argue that, in the '60s, when
I got out of Yale and I got out

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of school and I wanted
a job, I think I wasn't
abused because I was active
sexually and complicit.

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I now have sort of reformed all
of that, because I realize what
I consider to be acceptable

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was really abuse, and
I recovered because I
wanted a job so badly.

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But now I feel everything is out
of hand and that there is just
-- it's enough. It's enough,

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and women have to be together.
I didn't have any women to go
to. I didn't have anyone to

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cry to, but now I think
when you cry together,
you make a louder noise,
and I feel like I'm

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happy to add my voice.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Did you feel or
did you know there were other
women going through the same

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thing when you were?

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SHEILA NEVINS: No, because
when I began in this business,
there were very few women in

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the business, so there was no
way that I would know. It was
a man's world and the only way

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- - I didn't -- no, I
didn't know. I didn't know.

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I mean, I used to sit at
screenings at unknown,
unnamed, I should say,
networks, and someone

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put their hands down my back.
Or I -- I didn't know to remove
them. I thought if I removed

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them, someone else would get
my job. But it was the truth
in the '60s. It was the truth.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Is it
accurate to say that you
were suffering in silence?

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SHEILA NEVINS: In retrospect,
it intimidated me, but I was
so ambitious, that I pushed

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that aside.

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I mean, I hurt. It hurt. I mean,
it hurt mentally in a way, but
I didn't know. I didn't know.

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You know, it's like getting T.B.
before there's a shot for it
or getting polio before there's

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Salk. I didn't know.

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How was I to know? Who was my
role model? Who was I going to
look to? There was no Gloria

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Steinem. There was no women's
movement. There was no one
telling me that I was equal. I

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actually thought I wasn't equal.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Is there
any doubt in your mind
that things have changed?

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SHEILA NEVINS: Yes, there's
no doubt in my mind that
things have changed.

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I think it has to do with the
group of voices, as opposed to
solos. Solo is a very lonely

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thing. I don't know how to
sing, but I have to use that
word. Solo, you do what you can

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do. Together, you're warriors,
and I think it makes a big
difference. I wasn't Wonder

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Woman.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: How has it
changed? Because there are still
these stories that are coming

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out.

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SHEILA NEVINS: I think that
men are put on warning, you
know, keep off the grass sign

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now, for want of a better thing.

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You can't. You can't anymore,
and you should never have. But
now you can't, because your

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job is in jeopardy, your
life is in jeopardy, your
career is in jeopardy.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: But some
of the Harvey Weinstein
allegations are pretty recent.

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SHEILA NEVINS: That's so
criminal as to not even be
part of the conversation.

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In other words, I always think
that whatever that was, was --
it wasn't just intimidation.

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It was brutal. It was
physical. It was -- it seems
criminal. I don't know.

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But I think the abuse,
the sexual abuse, the
harassment, it's enough.
It's time. It's time

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women get together and say,
enough. If it happened to you,
it happened to me, it happened

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to her. It's not going
to happen to my daughter.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: As head
of HBO Documentaries,
you made the decision,
you and your colleagues,

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to cancel the series by Mark
Halperin, political journalist
working now for NBC, allegations

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about him.

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Was there any hesitation
about making that decision?

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SHEILA NEVINS: I can't answer
that, because, in fact, I'm
-- that's not my area. I don't

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really know of that decision.
I mean, I know of the decision,
of course, but I don't know

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what led to make that decision.

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But I think HBO has become a
place of zero tolerance. There
are a lot of women in power.

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And I think we would have
been angry had it gone ahead.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: You said,
I saw in one interview,
that there weren't human
resources departments.

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SHEILA NEVINS: No, there was
no one to go to. There was
no -- I don't know the word

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sexual harassment. I
don't think I knew it
until about 25 years ago.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: But there are
human resources departments
now, and yet women are saying

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they don't feel safe necessarily
going there. They worry they
are still going to have a

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job in jeopardy if
they go forward.

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SHEILA NEVINS: They have to go
forward. There have to be enough
women in power that if you

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go forward on behalf of what
happened with a male colleague,
that everyone will join

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you, and you will
not lose your job.

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There may have been a time when
you were afraid you would lose
your job. But I don't really

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know. I don't know. It's
different. The rules
are different. There
is a vaccine against

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it now. We're not going to get
that disease anymore. We're
just not going to get it.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: You really do
think things have changed?

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SHEILA NEVINS: I absolutely
think it. I absolutely think it.

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I think that's what revolutions
are about. It's been quiet
for a long time. I mean, it's

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very sad, really, that women
have been subjected to that for
so long and have had to be so

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silent about it because there
was no place to go. It's hard
being a woman in the workplace.

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Harassment is very deep.

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It's emotional. It doesn't only
have to be sexual. It can go
into other things. Not being

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heard, not being reckoned with,
not being treated equally,
not getting equal pay. This

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catapults sort of all those
other things into the spotlight.
Men will be careful. They will

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be careful of us. They will
respect us. They won't hurt us.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: I'm asking you
about this, Sheila Nevins,
because I still hear young

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women saying the workplace
is still so unbalanced,
with men holding by far
the balance of power

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and women not, that there's
not a check on so many
men who feel they can...

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SHEILA NEVINS: I don't think
it's going to happen again.
A man would have to be pretty

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stupid to step
forward right now.

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I mean, he would have to be
pretty -- he really would have
to be a psychopath, because he

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would have to be willing to
lose everything he has, his
scripts, his jobs, his wife, his

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respectability.

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I don't think -- I don't know
where they work. I know where
I work, but I think that there

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is -- it's the
time to fight back.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: So what is your
advice today to young women
who experience something and

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aren't sure they
should come forward?

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SHEILA NEVINS: They have to
come forward, because there
are enough women in power now

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that can hire them, that can
listen to them, and there are
enough people in positions of

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- - I mean, human resources
sounds like a funny word,
but there are enough
people in the workplace

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who will join with
you and fight back.

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You're not alone. Women are not
alone anymore. They're just not
alone. And I think -- I wouldn't

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be talking to you if I thought
that I was alone. I feel like
you and I are on the same

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page.

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You know, at a certain
point, you're old enough
in this business that
no guy's going to make

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a pass at you, OK? But that
shouldn't be the reason, should
it? And I think that equality

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that you get as you get older,
because you're not a -- quote
-- "sex object" anymore, has

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to pervade youth and
young women, and it will.

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It just will. It has to. Come
to us. We will help them.

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(LAUGHTER)

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JUDY WOODRUFF: For
sure, come to us.

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Sheila Nevins,
thank you very much.

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SHEILA NEVINS: Thank you for
asking me these questions.
I really appreciate it.