WEBVTT 00:04.800 --> 00:05.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening. 00:05.800 --> 00:06.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I'm Geoff Bennett. 00:06.800 --> 00:08.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Amna Nawaz is away. 00:08.933 --> 00:12.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% On the "NewsHour" tonight: IRS whistle-blowers testify before Congress, claiming the Justice 00:14.166 --> 00:17.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Department slow-walked an investigation into Hunter Biden. 00:17.266 --> 00:22.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% New reporting highlights Donald Trump's plans to expand executive power and limit judicial 00:23.566 --> 00:26.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% independence if reelected. 00:26.100 --> 00:30.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And Judy Woodruff hears from a panel of Iowa voters about the role of politics in their 00:30.566 --> 00:33.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% lives and their hopes for overcoming divisions. 00:33.800 --> 00:38.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% SARAH LONGWELL, Longwell Partners: Bluer cities and redder sort of rural areas, and so the 00:38.200 --> 00:42.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% less people talk to each other, the less they have a really good frame of reference for 00:42.300 --> 00:47.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% how somebody might actually think. 01:08.500 --> 01:13.500 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% (BREAK) 01:33.033 --> 01:38.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "NewsHour." 02:23.466 --> 02:28.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Tens of millions of Americans have spent another day under heat watches, warnings, or advisories 02:29.633 --> 02:32.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in this long, hot summer of 2023. 02:32.266 --> 02:35.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The low temperature in Phoenix early today was 97, a record. 02:35.366 --> 02:40.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% That followed 19 straight days with highs of 110 degrees, also a record. 02:42.833 --> 02:47.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Billboards around the city displayed the brutally high temperatures, while Arizonans and their 02:47.333 --> 02:51.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% dogs adjusted their schedules to escape the dangerous conditions. 02:51.033 --> 02:52.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% HEATHER MOOS, Arizona Resident: We stay hydrated. 02:52.766 --> 02:54.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% They drink a lot of water. 02:54.266 --> 02:55.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then we're inside during the day. 02:55.966 --> 02:57.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And, when the sun goes down, we're out walking and going to the park. 02:57.600 --> 03:01.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% So I guess we have to be vampires in this kind of weather. 03:01.600 --> 03:06.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Searing heat overseas plagued firefighters in Greece as they battled wildfires 03:07.566 --> 03:09.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% near Athens for a third day. 03:09.766 --> 03:14.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the streets in Sardinia, Italy, were deserted as temperatures neared 108 degrees. 03:14.033 --> 03:19.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% A federal judge in New York has upheld a jury award of $5 million against former President 03:21.100 --> 03:23.166 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Trump. 03:23.166 --> 03:27.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The jury found he sexually abused writer E. Jean Carroll in 1996 and defamed her in his 03:28.233 --> 03:29.700 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% denial. 03:29.700 --> 03:31.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Today, the judge ruled the award was reasonable. 03:31.866 --> 03:36.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He said that it -- quote -- "did not deviate materially from reasonable compensation so 03:37.733 --> 03:39.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% as to make it excessive." 03:39.733 --> 03:43.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% A separate federal judge refused today to take over a state court case involving Mr. 03:43.400 --> 03:47.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Trump's alleged hush money payments to an adult film star. 03:47.466 --> 03:52.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In Southern Ukraine, heavy Russian air raids pounded Black Sea port facilities overnight. 03:54.433 --> 03:57.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Ukrainian officials report dozens of missiles and drones hit Odessa for a second straight 03:57.866 --> 03:59.900 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% night. 03:59.900 --> 04:03.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The barrage damaged critical grain and oil terminals and destroyed 60,000 tons of grain. 04:05.433 --> 04:08.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Russia had suspended a deal allowing Black Sea grain shipments. 04:08.700 --> 04:13.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The president of Israel, Isaac Herzog, went before the U.S. Congress today and acknowledged 04:13.700 --> 04:16.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% criticism of Israel's far right government. 04:16.433 --> 04:21.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Herzog's office is nonpartisan, but his appearance was boycotted by a handful of progressive 04:22.866 --> 04:24.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Democrats over Israel's treatment of Palestinians. 04:24.833 --> 04:29.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ISAAC HERZOG, Israeli President: I respect criticism, especially from friends, although 04:30.966 --> 04:33.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one does not always have to accept it. 04:33.900 --> 04:38.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But criticism of Israel must not cross the line into negation of the state of Israel's 04:40.066 --> 04:41.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% right to exist. 04:41.233 --> 04:43.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 04:43.233 --> 04:46.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Over the weekend, the leading House progressive, Democrat Pramila Jayapal, 04:46.933 --> 04:49.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% branded Israel a -- quote -- "racist state." 04:49.166 --> 04:51.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% She later apologized. 04:51.166 --> 04:55.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But, on Tuesday, the House overwhelmingly passed a resolution reaffirming U.S. support 04:56.266 --> 04:58.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% for Israel. 04:58.233 --> 05:00.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The Biden White House proposed new guidelines for corporate mergers today. 05:00.900 --> 05:05.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It also called for action against junk fees charged by landlords and price-gouging in 05:05.833 --> 05:07.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% the food industry. 05:07.766 --> 05:11.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The president met his so-called Competition Council at the White House to discuss the 05:11.600 --> 05:13.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% proposals. 05:13.566 --> 05:16.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They're subject of public comment and revision before taking effect. 05:16.500 --> 05:21.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, on Wall Street today, stocks edged higher again after a series of profit reports from 05:22.100 --> 05:24.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% major banks. 05:24.066 --> 05:28.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The Dow Jones industrial average gained 109 points to close at 35061. 05:29.000 --> 05:30.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The Nasdaq rose four points. 05:30.166 --> 05:32.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% The S&P 500 added 10. 05:32.800 --> 05:37.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And Major League Baseball has done something it had not done in 129 years. 05:37.600 --> 05:41.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% On Tuesday, 12 teams scored in double figures. 05:41.366 --> 05:46.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The Chicago Cubs led the list, routing the Washington Nationals 17-3. 05:48.366 --> 05:51.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The only day with more offense was July 4, 1894, when 13 teams scored in double digits. 05:53.900 --> 05:58.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And still to come on the "NewsHour": jurors weigh the fate of the Pittsburgh synagogue 05:58.566 --> 06:03.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% shooter; Germany's standing as an economic powerhouse grows increasingly uncertain; and 06:05.566 --> 06:09.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% author Sally Jenkins talks about her new book on life lessons learned from sports. 06:15.966 --> 06:20.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% A pair of IRS whistle-blowers testified today before the House Oversight Committee about 06:27.833 --> 06:32.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% alleged meddling in the Justice Department investigation of Hunter Biden. 06:32.200 --> 06:36.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You will recall that Hunter Biden reached an agreement to plead guilty to two federal 06:36.666 --> 06:39.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% misdemeanor counts of failing to pay his taxes. 06:39.666 --> 06:44.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He also agreed to abide by a set of conditions to avoid a separate felony gun possession 06:45.133 --> 06:47.133 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% charge. 06:47.133 --> 06:50.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The whistle-blowers say those charges and this case are out of line with the norm. 06:50.666 --> 06:52.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Democrats dispute that. 06:52.733 --> 06:55.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Lisa Desjardins was in the hearing room today and joins us now from Capitol Hill. 06:55.866 --> 07:00.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, Lisa, what did these whistle-blowers allege were the problems with the investigation? 07:00.100 --> 07:04.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Geoff, this was a long and, for the most part, substantive and serious 07:04.233 --> 07:05.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% hearing from both sides. 07:05.833 --> 07:08.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% These were not just any IRS agents. 07:08.300 --> 07:13.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% These were two IRS investigators who were the chief two investigators in the Hunter 07:13.900 --> 07:15.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Biden case. 07:15.966 --> 07:18.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They gave a list of things that they said were out of the norm, unprecedented obstacles 07:18.866 --> 07:22.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and changes in the way that this case worked. 07:22.133 --> 07:26.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Among a few of those things that they listed, first, at the top, they said that they were 07:26.200 --> 07:31.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% not allowed to search Joe Biden's home where Hunter Biden was living, that they were blocked 07:33.066 --> 07:36.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% from interviewing Biden grandchildren, who may have been able to give testimony about 07:38.600 --> 07:42.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Hunter Biden's tax returns, that they were prominently not -- they did not see the felony 07:44.400 --> 07:47.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% tax charges that they recommended and which they said other prosecutors early in the case 07:48.533 --> 07:50.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% also agreed with. 07:50.033 --> 07:53.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And they also said they saw outside limits on David Weiss. 07:53.666 --> 07:58.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He is the U.S. attorney in Delaware who is overseeing the prosecution and this plea deal 07:59.533 --> 08:01.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in the Hunter Biden case. 08:01.666 --> 08:05.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% One of these two IRS whistle-blowers, Joseph Ziegler, this was his first time talking in 08:05.366 --> 08:06.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% public today. 08:06.566 --> 08:08.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He said he is a gay Democrat. 08:08.933 --> 08:13.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He said this is not political, but that he did, in fact, see signs that there was something 08:13.633 --> 08:16.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% stifling that prosecutor. 08:16.033 --> 08:19.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JOSEPH ZIEGLER, IRS Whistle-Blower: It appeared to me, based on what I experienced, that the 08:19.566 --> 08:24.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% U.S. attorney in Delaware in our investigation was constantly hamstrung, limited, and marginalized 08:26.000 --> 08:28.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% by DOJ officials, as well as other U.S. attorneys. 08:28.933 --> 08:33.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I still think that a special counsel is necessary for this investigation. 08:35.933 --> 08:38.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: There's no reason to believe there will be a special counsel in this. 08:38.733 --> 08:43.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Ziegler said that, throughout the investigation, they became scared to ask questions that they 08:43.266 --> 08:46.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% thought would lead to the Biden family or Joe Biden or his campaign. 08:46.866 --> 08:51.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Lisa, White House officials point out that there are often disputes, internal 08:51.600 --> 08:54.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% disputes, between investigators and prosecutors. 08:54.633 --> 08:59.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And a White House spokesperson today said that House Republicans, as I look at my notes 08:59.233 --> 09:04.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% here, were -- quote -- "staging partisan stunts to try to damage President Biden politically." 09:05.400 --> 09:06.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% How did Democrats on the committee see it? 09:06.500 --> 09:08.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: That's right. 09:08.266 --> 09:10.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Democrats see this completely differently. 09:10.133 --> 09:11.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% One thing that was unique in this hearing. 09:11.866 --> 09:14.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Democrats did not question the credibility of these witnesses. 09:14.733 --> 09:18.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They said these are career professionals, but they said they think they got some things 09:18.866 --> 09:21.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% wrong, that, essentially, these were investigators versus prosecutors. 09:21.766 --> 09:25.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And there's often a difference of opinion in how a case should be charged. 09:25.300 --> 09:29.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now, they pointed specifically to a letter from the U.S. attorney in this case, David 09:29.966 --> 09:34.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Weiss, that came out in the last few weeks, where Weiss was very clear, saying: I followed 09:36.933 --> 09:40.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the process and I was never the authority to bring charges in any jurisdiction. 09:41.466 --> 09:44.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The whistle-blowers are saying that he told them otherwise. 09:44.400 --> 09:46.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So there is a difference here over what he said. 09:46.933 --> 09:51.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, right now, that prosecutor says: No, I was never denied any authority that I needed. 09:51.700 --> 09:56.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now, some other points that they make, they say that these plea deals often indicate charges 09:56.300 --> 10:01.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that are graded down from the ideal prosecutor charges because Hunter Biden has pleaded guilty. 10:03.833 --> 10:06.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% They also said Joe Biden was neither president nor vice president for some of this investigation. 10:06.866 --> 10:11.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Now, Jamie Raskin, the head Democrat on this committee, said, overall, while Hunter Biden 10:13.766 --> 10:16.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% has admitted to doing wrong, and there is a lot to say about Hunter Biden, but nothing 10:16.433 --> 10:20.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Republicans have shown has led anywhere near Joe Biden. 10:20.033 --> 10:22.100 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% REP. 10:22.100 --> 10:26.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): One thing you will not hear today is any evidence of wrongdoing by 10:27.533 --> 10:30.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% President Joe Biden or his administration. 10:30.600 --> 10:35.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Like every other try by our colleagues to concoct a scandal about President Biden, this 10:36.800 --> 10:38.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one is a complete and total bust. 10:38.800 --> 10:42.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Democrats also point out that prosecutor is a Trump appointee. 10:42.900 --> 10:47.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: So, Lisa, based on your reporting, where does this head next? 10:47.133 --> 10:48.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Lots to say. 10:48.333 --> 10:50.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% There will be more hearings. 10:50.266 --> 10:54.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We will see more reports from Republicans, especially on the House side. 10:56.866 --> 11:00.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% We also should be on the watch, because Republicans now are trying to tie this to the attorney 11:01.733 --> 11:03.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% general in this case, his past testimony about how this was handled. 11:03.833 --> 11:08.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I asked Speaker McCarthy about this today, and he brought up the attorney general saying 11:10.833 --> 11:13.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% perhaps this will lead down the road of questions strong enough to even impeach him. 11:13.266 --> 11:16.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He's not going there yet, but he's raising that idea. 11:16.066 --> 11:18.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% One last thing, Geoff. 11:18.166 --> 11:21.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Hunter Biden himself, that plea deal, the hearing, the next hearing in that case is 11:21.133 --> 11:22.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% next week. 11:22.800 --> 11:24.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% The judge, of course, has to approve that deal for it to go through. 11:24.866 --> 11:25.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Lisa Desjardins. 11:25.866 --> 11:26.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Lisa, thanks, as always. 11:26.866 --> 11:31.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome. 11:33.966 --> 11:38.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Donald Trump and his allies are preparing for a second term in office 11:42.133 --> 11:47.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that would massively expand the power of the presidency, centralizing control within the 11:47.733 --> 11:48.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Oval Office. 11:48.900 --> 11:51.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Laura Barron-Lopez explains. 11:51.000 --> 11:54.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Strip tens of thousands of career civil servants of protections and 11:54.900 --> 11:59.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% replace them with political hires and exert political influence over the Justice Department, 12:02.266 --> 12:05.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% these are some of the agenda items under discussion among former President Donald Trump and his 12:05.166 --> 12:10.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% allies if he retakes office in 2024, according to recent reports by The New York Times and 12:10.766 --> 12:12.833 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% The Economist. 12:12.833 --> 12:16.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% For more on what this would mean for our democracy and the power of the executive branch, I'm 12:16.233 --> 12:18.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% joined by Ruth Ben-Ghiat. 12:18.333 --> 12:22.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% She's a history professor at New York University and an expert on authoritarianism. 12:22.233 --> 12:24.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Ruth, thank you so much for joining us. 12:24.300 --> 12:28.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The New York Times and The Economist spoke to a number of former and current Donald Trump 12:28.766 --> 12:33.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% advisers about this effort to radically expand the executive. 12:33.400 --> 12:37.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% One of them, the former Office of Management and Budget Director Russell Vought, told The 12:37.666 --> 12:42.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Times this: "What we're trying to do is identify the pockets of independence and seize them." 12:44.500 --> 12:47.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Ruth, you have said that there is a term for this. 12:47.933 --> 12:50.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% What is that term and what does it mean? 12:50.000 --> 12:54.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% RUTH BEN-GHIAT, NYU History Professional: Yes, in studies of authoritarianism, it's 12:55.766 --> 12:59.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% autocratic capture, autocratic capture. 12:59.333 --> 13:04.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And what this Trump adviser has described is that. 13:05.733 --> 13:08.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% When you remake government, you remake civil service. 13:08.466 --> 13:12.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So you purge people who will not be loyal to you. 13:12.433 --> 13:17.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So, loyalty becomes a requirement, not expertise, and you restaff government with people who 13:19.766 --> 13:23.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% will do your bidding and, in this way, hugely centralizing and increasing presidential power. 13:26.466 --> 13:31.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And I was also struck by his language, seizing, looking for pockets of independence, and seizing 13:33.400 --> 13:35.466 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% them. 13:35.466 --> 13:39.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And this also negates the idea of an independent civil service and independent institutions. 13:42.166 --> 13:44.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% This is a bedrock of democracy. 13:44.333 --> 13:48.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And the word seizing, this is not the language of democratic reform. 13:48.800 --> 13:51.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This is the language of authoritarian takeover. 13:51.266 --> 13:56.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Trump, as we know, is facing potentially a third indictment in a 13:56.000 --> 14:00.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% matter of days for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. 14:00.833 --> 14:05.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Much of his campaign has been centered on his plans to go after the Justice Department. 14:07.833 --> 14:09.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States: I will totally obliterate the deep 14:09.966 --> 14:12.000 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% state. 14:12.000 --> 14:15.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We will find the globalists, warmongers and the bureaucrats who have weaponized our justice 14:17.400 --> 14:19.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% system, and we will escort them from federal buildings. 14:19.833 --> 14:21.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We're going to get them the hell out of government. 14:21.866 --> 14:26.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Now, Ruth Trump's campaign may be the most explicit in their plans for 14:28.733 --> 14:31.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the Justice Department, but think tanks like the American First Policy Institute and the 14:31.600 --> 14:36.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% conservative Heritage Foundation have really crafted blueprints for any Republican that 14:38.166 --> 14:41.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% may win the presidency in 2024. 14:41.466 --> 14:43.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% What's the endgame here? 14:43.433 --> 14:48.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% RUTH BEN-GHIAT: So, strongmen and authoritarians are not like other politicians. 14:50.466 --> 14:55.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% For example, many of them are under investigation when they run for office. 14:55.200 --> 15:00.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% That was true with Berlusconi in Italy, with Putin, with Trump in '16 -- 2016. 15:01.133 --> 15:02.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And now he has his legal woes. 15:02.966 --> 15:05.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Netanyahu. 15:05.566 --> 15:09.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And so the purpose of getting into power becomes to capture the judicial system and make yourself 15:10.900 --> 15:13.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% untouchable. 15:13.033 --> 15:16.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And we have an example in Israel now with Netanyahu facing corruption charges. 15:18.900 --> 15:22.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so he's very focused on judicial reform, and this is why there are enormous protests 15:24.066 --> 15:25.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% against him. 15:25.566 --> 15:28.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But these are things that autocrats do routinely. 15:28.866 --> 15:33.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so it's interesting to me that Trump is able to capitalize on this preexisting discourse 15:35.866 --> 15:40.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% of the deep state that Republicans had peddled for many years. 15:42.700 --> 15:45.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And now he's personalized it because he has so many legal woes. 15:45.133 --> 15:50.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so he needs to get into office and realize the dream of becoming untouchable. 15:52.066 --> 15:54.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: That former Trump adviser, Russell Vought, that I mentioned has said 15:54.966 --> 15:57.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that this plan is now -- quote -- "Republican doctrine." 15:57.700 --> 16:02.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And we have seen other candidates, like Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who is the leading 16:02.366 --> 16:07.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% challenger to Trump, talk about plans like this as well, wanting to abolish certain agencies 16:08.333 --> 16:09.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and take more control. 16:09.333 --> 16:11.366 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% GOV. 16:11.366 --> 16:12.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% RON DESANTIS (R-FL), Presidential Candidate: You're going to see the Justice Department 16:12.733 --> 16:14.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% turned inside out. 16:14.300 --> 16:19.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% For far too long, this bureaucracy has imposed its will on us. 16:21.166 --> 16:23.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's about time we impose our will on it, and that's what we're going to do. 16:23.066 --> 16:25.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 16:25.100 --> 16:27.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Ruth, is that also a classic example of autocratic capture? 16:27.733 --> 16:30.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% RUTH BEN-GHIAT: It is. 16:30.066 --> 16:34.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, federal bureaucracy, you take an oath to the Constitution. 16:34.633 --> 16:39.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You are serving the public, as well as the administration. 16:39.366 --> 16:44.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But DeSantis saying there he's going to impose his will is an assertion of executive power 16:47.500 --> 16:52.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% beyond and -- beyond what is proper for an independent and democratic political system. 16:55.366 --> 16:57.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's the same with Trump. 16:57.433 --> 17:02.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump is not saying that he's going to fire inefficient people, he's going to get rid 17:03.133 --> 17:05.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of big government because it doesn't work. 17:05.233 --> 17:09.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump is saying he's going to purge -- quote - - "the sick political class that hates our 17:09.233 --> 17:10.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% country." 17:10.400 --> 17:13.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So political attributes are at stake here. 17:13.866 --> 17:18.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% That's what the criteria is, and that's what's disturbing in terms of the health of our democracy. 17:20.700 --> 17:23.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Ruth Ben-Ghiat of New York University, thank you so much. 17:24.800 --> 17:29.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RUTH BEN-GHIAT: Pleasure. 17:31.300 --> 17:35.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Throughout this year, Judy Woodruff has been examining divisions across 17:38.266 --> 17:40.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% the country. 17:40.266 --> 17:44.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% For her latest story, she listened in on focus groups in Iowa with two-time Trump voters 17:46.300 --> 17:49.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as they talked about how they feel about the state of the nation, the divisiveness they 17:49.100 --> 17:52.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% see, and who they feel is responsible for it. 17:52.066 --> 17:56.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% A note, we have chosen not to include the participants' full names after some received 17:56.833 --> 17:59.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% harassing calls following an earlier story. 17:59.933 --> 18:04.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This story was produced with our friends at Iowa PBS and is part of Judy's ongoing series 18:05.666 --> 18:07.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% America at a Crossroads. 18:07.733 --> 18:11.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALLAN, Republican Voter: I definitely think the country's headed in the wrong direction, 18:11.700 --> 18:16.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and, unfortunately, I think we're on that downhill slide, that I'm not sure it can be 18:17.566 --> 18:19.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% turned around. 18:19.666 --> 18:23.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: That was a common feeling among the 16 two-time Trump voters. 18:23.400 --> 18:28.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We gathered recently studio of Iowa PBS in Johnston for a pair of focus groups led by 18:30.633 --> 18:33.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Republican strategist and pollster Sarah Longwell. 18:33.866 --> 18:38.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% BRENT, Trump Voter: In Iowa, we have a great governor, we have great leadership. 18:38.400 --> 18:42.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% However, when you look at the country as a whole, it just seems like everybody has said. 18:42.866 --> 18:44.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The country's just going down the tubes. 18:44.933 --> 18:49.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% RON, Republican Voter: I agree with all the different economics and all that, but we are 18:51.733 --> 18:55.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so polarized that we can't come to common ground. 18:55.566 --> 18:58.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% MATT, Republican Voter: It almost feels a little bit like a civil war. 18:58.833 --> 19:03.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Following the panels, I sat down with Longwell, who conducts focus groups 19:03.533 --> 19:07.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% with both Republicans and Democrats, to talk through what we heard. 19:07.733 --> 19:10.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL, Longwell Partners: Mainly, the things that you hear -- and I hear this 19:10.400 --> 19:14.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% all the time from Republicans -- is they really feel like the country is going in the wrong 19:14.300 --> 19:15.833 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% direction. 19:15.833 --> 19:19.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They want a Republican back in power very badly. 19:19.033 --> 19:24.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: In terms of these Republican voters and their view of how divided the country 19:25.566 --> 19:28.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is, what came across to you the most about that? 19:28.400 --> 19:31.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: Well, everybody does think we're divided. 19:31.333 --> 19:35.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% That is clear in the focus groups we did tonight and in the focus groups I do all the time. 19:35.433 --> 19:39.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% People are -- they talk about things like a national divorce or a civil war. 19:39.100 --> 19:40.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They feel like we're at each other's throats. 19:40.666 --> 19:43.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% How many of you think we're very divided? 19:43.333 --> 19:47.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Raise your hands if you think we're an extremely divided country. 19:47.166 --> 19:48.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Whose fault do you think it is that we're so divided? 19:48.166 --> 19:49.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% WOMAN: The media. 19:49.600 --> 19:50.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SOPHIA, Republican Voter: The media, for sure. 19:50.266 --> 19:51.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% WOMAN: Yes. 19:51.166 --> 19:52.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 19:52.166 --> 19:53.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WOMAN: And the politicians. 19:53.166 --> 19:54.366 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% WOMAN: The politicians. 19:54.366 --> 19:55.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% SOPHIA: And they perpetuate the hate. 19:55.300 --> 19:56.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I mean, they do it on purpose. 19:56.566 --> 19:58.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They have an agenda, and it is to divide. 19:58.766 --> 20:01.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that's what they seek and that's what they're doing. 20:01.366 --> 20:02.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% WOMAN: That's how they get ratings. 20:02.633 --> 20:04.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That's how they get money. 20:04.133 --> 20:06.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SOPHIA: Exactly, because that's where the money is. 20:06.166 --> 20:09.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: And I'm curious, where are you getting your information? 20:09.133 --> 20:10.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like, where are you -- what are you watching? 20:10.866 --> 20:11.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% What are you reading? 20:11.866 --> 20:13.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% What are you listening to? 20:13.900 --> 20:17.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SONYA, Republican Voter: I watch BlazeTV and FOX News, and I have TRUTH Social. 20:19.333 --> 20:20.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I'm all over Twitter. 20:20.900 --> 20:25.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I watch Channel 13, NBC, all the time. 20:25.200 --> 20:26.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: News junkie. 20:26.466 --> 20:29.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% SONYA: I like to know what's going on. 20:29.100 --> 20:33.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% PETER, Republican Voter: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton took over Rush Limbaugh's show. 20:33.000 --> 20:34.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% They are good. 20:34.566 --> 20:37.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, these guys, they look into things, they know things. 20:37.733 --> 20:39.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Sean Hannity is really good also. 20:39.766 --> 20:43.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% RON: I think I'm smart enough to understand when I'm being manipulated, all right? 20:43.533 --> 20:45.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So, all I have to say is, I read everything. 20:45.766 --> 20:50.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I listen to everything, and then, what goes in, what goes out, and then I just make up 20:53.500 --> 20:55.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% my own decision. 20:55.500 --> 20:59.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KEVEN, Republican Voter: I'm going to blame the media and also social media. 20:59.300 --> 21:04.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think back like 10 years ago, 15 years ago, we didn't -- it didn't seem so divided. 21:06.333 --> 21:10.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it's driven me to seek out different news sources now to get my news, so I can compare, 21:11.600 --> 21:12.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% like Real America's Voice and Newsmax. 21:12.866 --> 21:14.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 21:14.066 --> 21:16.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% SARAH LONGWELL: What about you, Mary? 21:16.100 --> 21:18.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MARY, Republican Voter: So, I was -- I agree with what you were saying. 21:18.166 --> 21:21.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So social media is a huge thing, in my opinion, because you don't have a personal relationship 21:21.666 --> 21:23.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with the people mostly online. 21:23.733 --> 21:28.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Or like what I would say to you right now in person would be completely different than 21:28.166 --> 21:30.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% what I might way on social media. 21:30.266 --> 21:34.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: So it sounds like you guys blame the media, social media for the division. 21:35.866 --> 21:37.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% How do you feel about Democrats in general? 21:37.966 --> 21:42.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MARY: Generally, any time that there's a fight between two people, there's never usually 21:42.000 --> 21:44.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one side that's like 100 percent right. 21:44.066 --> 21:46.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's always somewhere in the middle. 21:46.166 --> 21:49.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so I'm not ever going to say like, this side's completely right and this side's completely 21:49.600 --> 21:51.633 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% wrong. 21:51.633 --> 21:52.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: Do you guys have friends and family who are Democrats? 21:52.333 --> 21:53.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% MAN: Oh, yes. 21:53.200 --> 21:54.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% WOMAN: Yes. 21:54.200 --> 21:55.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% MAN: Yes. 21:55.200 --> 21:56.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 21:56.200 --> 21:57.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% MAN: Yes. 21:57.700 --> 21:58.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: And how does that -- how do you do with that? 21:58.400 --> 21:59.366 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Is it tense? 21:59.366 --> 22:00.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Can you talk to each other? 22:00.266 --> 22:02.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Is it -- how is it? 22:02.300 --> 22:05.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KEVEN: Recently spent some time with some relatives that are Democrat, and you really 22:05.833 --> 22:10.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% can't talk about Trump or Republicans in that house. 22:12.233 --> 22:14.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, it's just you know tread lightly there. 22:14.200 --> 22:17.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DANIELLE, Republican Voter: My closest inner circle is mostly like-minded. 22:17.400 --> 22:21.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They vote Republican or pretty conservative. 22:21.400 --> 22:26.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, outside of that, I try to avoid conversations, because they're just never productive. 22:27.266 --> 22:28.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% No one's changing anyone's mind. 22:28.800 --> 22:31.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: I did hear them say that they blame the media. 22:31.633 --> 22:36.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I also heard them say that they were reluctant to bring up their views with people who disagree 22:38.833 --> 22:43.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with them politically, for fear that they would be criticized, they would be called 22:45.033 --> 22:47.066 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% out. 22:47.066 --> 22:50.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: Yes, I do hear this all the time, people feeling like they can't talk 22:50.266 --> 22:54.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% about their support for President Trump or can't say that they're a Republican without 22:54.433 --> 22:57.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% fear of being shouted down. 22:57.666 --> 23:02.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think that both parties, members of both parties, sort of feel like it's really hot 23:04.600 --> 23:07.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% out there, and when you sort of wear your politics on your sleeve, that it's inviting 23:08.733 --> 23:10.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a kind of combative experience. 23:10.766 --> 23:14.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think they feel like a real difference from how people used to be able to sort of 23:14.900 --> 23:17.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% agree to disagree maybe 10 15 years ago. 23:17.533 --> 23:19.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes. 23:19.500 --> 23:22.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: And now they feel like it gets really personal really fast. 23:22.033 --> 23:25.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Another key division was over questions of faith and what it means for people's 23:26.500 --> 23:28.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% politics. 23:28.633 --> 23:31.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: Do you believe that it's possible to be very liberal, very progressive, but 23:31.066 --> 23:33.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% also be of deep Christian faith? 23:33.666 --> 23:35.233 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% MAN: No. 23:35.233 --> 23:36.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% SOPHIA: No. 23:36.800 --> 23:37.800 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% No. 23:37.800 --> 23:39.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: Tell me more. 23:39.733 --> 23:40.733 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Go ahead. 23:40.733 --> 23:42.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% SOPHIA: You can't. 23:42.466 --> 23:45.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Life is, well, very important. 23:45.533 --> 23:50.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And if you're a liberal, then you are pro-choice, and then you believe that it's OK to kill 23:50.100 --> 23:51.766 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% a baby. 23:51.766 --> 23:56.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And I don't believe that you can believe that and be a real Christian. 23:56.100 --> 23:58.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% SARAH LONGWELL: What do you think? 23:58.633 --> 24:02.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMANDA, Republican Voter: Technically, I guess you could be, but that would mean you're not, 24:02.666 --> 24:07.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% I don't know, allowing God's love to be in you as much and stuff. 24:09.600 --> 24:13.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% RAMONA, Republican Voter: So, I don't think that the Democrats -- and I hate to say it 24:15.200 --> 24:16.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% like that. 24:16.400 --> 24:20.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I hate to segregate the party. 24:20.166 --> 24:22.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They have too many, yes, but what if? 24:22.766 --> 24:26.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Yes, but what if I don't feel like a girl? 24:26.633 --> 24:31.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, whatever, God -- so, God made me a boy, but I don't feel like a boy, and so I'm going 24:33.366 --> 24:36.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% to change that. 24:36.500 --> 24:38.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's just messing with creation. 24:38.866 --> 24:42.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's just messing with the absolute. 24:42.233 --> 24:46.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So, when Joe Biden -- I know he's a Catholic. 24:46.400 --> 24:48.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Do you think that he's not Catholic? 24:48.866 --> 24:53.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% PETER: I mean, you just -- in your original question, God is more of a God of just love. 24:55.033 --> 24:57.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He's a God of right and wrong. 24:57.033 --> 24:58.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% He's a God of truth. 24:58.933 --> 25:01.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He's a God of righteousness. 25:01.100 --> 25:05.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, you can't be liberal and be far left on beliefs and then say, oh, I'm a Christian. 25:10.266 --> 25:11.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Well, you can say it. 25:11.566 --> 25:13.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That's the -- that's the worst thing. 25:13.000 --> 25:15.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% People do say it. 25:15.100 --> 25:19.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: There were strong views expressed about whether it's possible to be a Democrat, 25:21.200 --> 25:24.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to be liberal, and have a strong Christian faith. 25:24.200 --> 25:25.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It's almost a barrier. 25:25.700 --> 25:27.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: Yes, people can be really paradoxical. 25:27.866 --> 25:32.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They can sort of express one thing in thinking about it one way and then express sort of 25:34.700 --> 25:37.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the complete opposite if they're thinking about something else in a different frame. 25:37.100 --> 25:41.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You could hear on one hand people saying, well, I'd really like us to get along more, 25:41.366 --> 25:45.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and I want us to have shared values and have these good conversations. 25:45.366 --> 25:49.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And then you would also hear them say, but I don't think that you can be a real Christian 25:49.966 --> 25:51.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and be a progressive. 25:51.966 --> 25:54.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They didn't think those things were compatible. 25:54.000 --> 25:58.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: When it came to the idea of their children marrying someone of the opposite 25:58.500 --> 26:00.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% party, feelings were mixed. 26:00.600 --> 26:05.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: Would any of you or all of you be OK if your child married a Democrat? 26:07.033 --> 26:11.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% RAMONA: My child did marry a Democrat, a Democrat lawyer. 26:12.633 --> 26:13.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 26:13.633 --> 26:15.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RAMONA: It didn't go well. 26:15.633 --> 26:18.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% SARAH LONGWELL: Is it still not going well? 26:18.366 --> 26:19.366 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% RAMONA: No. 26:19.366 --> 26:20.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We are estranged. 26:20.566 --> 26:21.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% SARAH LONGWELL: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. 26:21.966 --> 26:22.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% RAMONA: Yes. 26:22.966 --> 26:25.033 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Yes. 26:25.033 --> 26:28.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% BRENT: My daughters are both very liberal, which pains me, but I support them and their 26:30.866 --> 26:34.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% beliefs and try to have conversations with them about what I believe and why I believe 26:35.400 --> 26:36.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% that way. 26:36.800 --> 26:39.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so -- but I don't try to change them. 26:39.100 --> 26:42.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% I just let them know how I believe and why I believe that way. 26:42.266 --> 26:45.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But if they choose to marry a Democrat, I will support them 100 percent. 26:45.733 --> 26:48.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% BRIAN, Republican Voter: And that, in itself, is the root issue. 26:48.500 --> 26:53.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: And there was even some pushback to our framing of some of these questions 26:53.366 --> 26:55.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% along partisan lines. 26:55.166 --> 26:57.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% BRIAN: We're all made in the image of God. 26:57.766 --> 26:59.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We're all valued by the creator. 26:59.800 --> 27:02.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Why are we dividing Democrat and Republican? 27:02.866 --> 27:05.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like, my mom's a liberal Democrat. 27:05.333 --> 27:10.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And I work in something completely different, and we have the most loving relationship. 27:12.233 --> 27:16.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's because I don't identify by our relationship based on Democrat, Republican. 27:16.100 --> 27:17.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% SARAH LONGWELL: Yes. 27:17.600 --> 27:20.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% BRIAN: And I think that's the problem in the country. 27:20.366 --> 27:22.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% SARAH LONGWELL: Yes. 27:22.466 --> 27:25.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% One of the things about doing the focus groups across the political spectrum every week now 27:25.566 --> 27:30.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for years is, oftentimes, Americans are closer on a number of things than you might think, 27:32.466 --> 27:36.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and people tend to overestimate how different the other side is from them or at how mad 27:37.766 --> 27:39.833 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% they would be. 27:39.833 --> 27:43.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And some of this comes down to the fact that we are now geographically very segregated 27:43.533 --> 27:45.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% as a country. 27:45.166 --> 27:49.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% We are -- tend to have bluer cities and redder sort of rural areas. 27:49.066 --> 27:51.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes. 27:51.033 --> 27:53.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARAH LONGWELL: And so the less people talk to each other, the less they have a really 27:53.166 --> 27:56.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% good frame of reference for how somebody might actually think. 27:56.766 --> 28:01.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Oftentimes, people are a little more tolerant, and they want us to get along. 28:03.800 --> 28:07.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Like, they express the fact that they would - - they sort of lament being this divided, 28:07.933 --> 28:12.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and they talk in terms of wanting America to be a place where you can talk about your 28:12.666 --> 28:16.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% disagreements and not feel like it's going to be so fraught. 28:16.533 --> 28:21.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: And so a mixed picture from these Trump voters in Iowa. 28:23.500 --> 28:26.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Some wish for less division and blame the news media, especially social media. 28:28.766 --> 28:32.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And yet they have strong views about Democrats, are divided on having one in the family, and 28:33.766 --> 28:38.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% question if progressive politics and Christianity can coexist. 28:38.000 --> 28:43.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Judy Woodruff in Johnston, Iowa. 28:45.433 --> 28:50.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: The 2018 massacre at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh that killed 28:56.400 --> 29:01.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% 11 people is considered to be the deadliest attack on Jews in U.S. history. 29:01.400 --> 29:06.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% A federal jury convicted the gunman of 63 charges, including 11 counts of hate crimes. 29:08.400 --> 29:11.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, as John Yang reports, the same jury is now deciding whether to recommend the death 29:11.900 --> 29:14.033 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% penalty. 29:14.033 --> 29:17.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN YANG: Geoff, this phase of the trial is really what the case has been all about. 29:19.866 --> 29:22.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Defense lawyers readily acknowledged during the guilt phase that the gunman planned and 29:22.600 --> 29:24.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% carried out the attack. 29:24.600 --> 29:28.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The jury is now in the third day of hearing from the victims' families and friends. 29:28.800 --> 29:32.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Later, the defense will make its case for a sentence of life in prison. 29:32.733 --> 29:36.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% This phase of the trial is expected to take at least a week. 29:36.500 --> 29:40.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% David Harris is a law professor at the University of Pittsburgh Law School. 29:40.333 --> 29:45.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He's also an adviser to the 10.27 Healing Partnership, which is a consortium helping 29:47.233 --> 29:50.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the victims, survivors and broader community deal with the shooting and its aftermath. 29:52.766 --> 29:55.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% To get to this phase, Mr. Harris, they had to go through a phase where they determined 29:57.300 --> 29:59.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that the shooter was eligible for the death penalty. 29:59.833 --> 30:03.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now they're deciding whether or not to recommend the death penalty. 30:03.300 --> 30:08.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Does the law give them any -- say anything about what factors they ought to be considering 30:09.033 --> 30:10.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in making this decision? 30:10.500 --> 30:11.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID HARRIS, University of Pittsburgh: Yes, it does, John. 30:11.900 --> 30:13.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And it's very clear about this. 30:13.900 --> 30:18.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% At this phase, the penalty phase, the jury is to consider evidence of aggravating factors 30:20.666 --> 30:24.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and mitigating factors. 30:24.033 --> 30:28.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Aggravating factors are things that would push the jury toward a sentence of death. 30:28.700 --> 30:33.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And they can be things like a killing that is particularly heinous, victims who are particularly 30:36.300 --> 30:38.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% vulnerable, multiple victims. 30:38.700 --> 30:43.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% All of this is spelled out in the law, the statutes that cover the death penalty and 30:44.500 --> 30:46.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% also by court decisions. 30:46.600 --> 30:51.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This is balanced, then, against mitigating factors coming from the defense. 30:51.133 --> 30:56.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the defense mitigating factors could be things like brain trauma, mental illness, 30:58.366 --> 31:00.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% adverse childhood events. 31:00.333 --> 31:03.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% All of that will be weighed and balanced by the jury. 31:03.733 --> 31:08.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And from that weighing and balancing, they will make the determination of whether this 31:08.200 --> 31:11.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% defendant is sentenced to death or life without parole. 31:11.566 --> 31:16.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JOHN YANG: And what the prosecution is doing now, putting up essentially victim-impact 31:17.166 --> 31:17.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% statements... 31:17.966 --> 31:20.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% DAVID HARRIS: Yes. 31:20.033 --> 31:22.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN YANG: ... we have heard widows talk about losing their husbands, grandchildren talk 31:22.433 --> 31:27.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% about losing their grandmother, even the girlfriend of one of the police officers who was wounded 31:28.833 --> 31:31.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% talking about what that wound has done to his life. 31:31.466 --> 31:36.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Is this all in trying to convince the jury that it is worth the death penalty? 31:37.766 --> 31:39.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DAVID HARRIS: Yes, that's what it is. 31:39.433 --> 31:42.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% This is the prosecution's aggravating evidence. 31:42.266 --> 31:47.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And nothing is typically more powerful than testimony from people who were victimized 31:48.700 --> 31:52.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% themselves or whose loved ones were the subject of the murder. 31:52.533 --> 31:54.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That's what we have here. 31:54.633 --> 31:58.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The Supreme Court allows this kind of victim-impact evidence at this stage to show the jury a 32:01.433 --> 32:03.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% kind of slice of life. 32:03.566 --> 32:06.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% What has it meant that this victim has been lost? 32:06.400 --> 32:11.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What has it meant to the families, to the workplace, to the community at large? 32:13.466 --> 32:16.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the court says that the jury can weigh this as part of the aggravating factors. 32:17.500 --> 32:19.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It is typically very, very impactful. 32:19.600 --> 32:24.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN YANG: And based on what we have heard in the guilt phase of this trial and also 32:27.000 --> 32:30.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in the phase to determine whether he was eligible, what do we expect the defense, what mitigating 32:31.566 --> 32:33.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% factors do we expect the defense to present? 32:33.600 --> 32:38.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID HARRIS: The defense has treated the entire case front to back as a preview so 32:39.466 --> 32:41.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% far of its mitigating evidence. 32:41.133 --> 32:43.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So we know pretty much what they're going to bring. 32:43.333 --> 32:48.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What we will hear about is the fact that they say that the defendant has a series of mental 32:50.433 --> 32:53.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% illnesses, that perhaps he has schizophrenia, that he has epilepsy and other mental disease, 32:56.433 --> 33:00.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% that he had some very terrible things happen during his childhood. 33:00.633 --> 33:05.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As they said in their opening argument for this phase of the trial, don't add more death 33:06.766 --> 33:08.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to this, punishment, yes, death, no. 33:08.833 --> 33:13.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN YANG: And on that point, I know that you live in -- fairly close, relatively close 33:15.100 --> 33:17.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to the synagogue where this shooting took place. 33:17.333 --> 33:21.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% It's a very tight-knit community, still very much a Jewish enclave. 33:21.633 --> 33:26.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I know that there is an array of opinions about whether this man should get life or 33:27.366 --> 33:29.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% get the death penalty. 33:29.333 --> 33:33.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What do you hear from your neighbors, what do you hear from your fellow congregants to 33:35.066 --> 33:37.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% sort of illustrate this? 33:37.166 --> 33:41.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID HARRIS: Well, this is the most common question I get asked, as a person who taught 33:43.000 --> 33:47.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% classes to help the community come to grips with the trial. 33:49.466 --> 33:52.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And we're a mixed group of opinions, just like Americans are, on the death penalty. 33:54.900 --> 33:59.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There are many people who say, if this isn't a death penalty case, I don't know what it 34:00.466 --> 34:01.966 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% is. 34:01.966 --> 34:04.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% If anybody ever deserved the death penalty, this guy does. 34:04.233 --> 34:09.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Others are just as opposed to the death penalty under any circumstances, even these. 34:10.566 --> 34:15.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So there is not a unanimity of opinion on this. 34:15.100 --> 34:20.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What we are is united in our determination to support the victims, to see the process 34:22.066 --> 34:25.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% through correctly, to see the best we can as human beings that justice is done. 34:27.366 --> 34:30.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We don't always get what we want out of the legal process. 34:30.100 --> 34:35.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But what we will get here is, we will know that this case was carried out consistent 34:37.000 --> 34:41.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with our values as a community, whether our values as a Jewish community, an American 34:42.200 --> 34:43.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% community, the community of Pittsburgh. 34:43.766 --> 34:45.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That's what we have going for us. 34:45.900 --> 34:50.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But what we're seeing here is a city and a community coming to grips with the worst thing 34:50.133 --> 34:54.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that can happen in very solid way that seeks justice. 34:54.933 --> 34:58.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN YANG: David Harris from the University of Pittsburgh Law School, thank you very much. 34:58.700 --> 35:03.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% DAVID HARRIS: My pleasure. 35:03.100 --> 35:08.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Germany's economy has been the envy of Europe for decades, but no longer. 35:14.300 --> 35:19.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The country is now officially in recession, and its people, who've been used to prosperity, 35:20.166 --> 35:22.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% are now losing confidence. 35:22.133 --> 35:25.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Much of Germany's current troubles have been caused by the war in Ukraine, with Germany 35:25.233 --> 35:28.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% turning its back on Russia, its former trading partner. 35:28.866 --> 35:32.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Special correspondent Malcolm Brabant reports from Berlin. 35:32.333 --> 35:36.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: This is the face of Germany's new poor. 35:36.500 --> 35:41.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Ines, a former nurse and therapist, blames soaring energy costs for making her a client 35:42.900 --> 35:45.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% at one of the country's fastest growing sectors, food banks. 35:45.600 --> 35:49.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Out of embarrassment, she doesn't wish to give her surname. 35:49.066 --> 35:54.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% INES, Food Bank Client (through translator): I never, ever thought it would come to this. 35:55.500 --> 35:58.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I worked in this country and raised three children. 35:58.000 --> 36:02.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I bought my own house, and I could never have foreseen myself in this situation. 36:02.400 --> 36:07.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: Next in line is Alina, a hairdresser from Luhansk, one of the provinces 36:08.700 --> 36:11.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in Eastern Ukraine occupied by Russian forces. 36:11.100 --> 36:16.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% More than one million Ukrainian refugees have taken shelter in Germany since the war began. 36:18.133 --> 36:20.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALINA, Ukrainian Refugee: It allows me to eat healthy food, because vegetables and fruits 36:20.066 --> 36:21.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% are very expensive here. 36:21.700 --> 36:23.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I can cook something. 36:23.166 --> 36:24.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% I can eat. 36:24.633 --> 36:27.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I can buy meat, for example, because I'm going here. 36:27.900 --> 36:32.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: In this country of 88 million, more than two million Germans are dependent 36:32.733 --> 36:35.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% on food banks. 36:35.233 --> 36:39.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% This one is run by former Dr. Christina Klar in a church community center in what was West 36:40.366 --> 36:42.433 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Berlin. 36:42.433 --> 36:44.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CHRISTINA KLAR, Food Bank Manager (through translator): At the beginning of this year, 36:44.533 --> 36:47.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% we had 100 to 120 households. 36:47.300 --> 36:52.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% A household can be one person or a family with two adults and four or five children. 36:53.500 --> 36:55.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And the Ukraine war has virtually doubled that. 36:55.966 --> 36:58.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We are now at 200 households. 36:58.600 --> 37:02.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% INES (through translator): As you can imagine, I'm ashamed to be here. 37:02.866 --> 37:04.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% This is society's bottom layer. 37:04.833 --> 37:08.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But now there are so many middle-class people here. 37:08.666 --> 37:10.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Yes, and that includes me. 37:10.866 --> 37:14.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: Food banks like this one are a real indication of poverty in one of 37:14.966 --> 37:17.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the richest countries in the world. 37:17.100 --> 37:20.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And there are 14 million people who are considered to be in poverty. 37:20.900 --> 37:23.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That's one in six of the population. 37:23.000 --> 37:24.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MARCEL FRATZSCHER, President, German Institute For Economic Research: Germany and German 37:24.833 --> 37:27.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% citizens are in a state of shock. 37:27.133 --> 37:32.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The expectation was, even after the pandemic, we will return to the good old past of the 37:34.100 --> 37:38.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% 2010s, maximum employment, strongly growing wages, highly -- high competitiveness with 37:40.066 --> 37:41.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% other economies worldwide. 37:41.566 --> 37:45.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And now people realize the world will never be that way again. 37:45.266 --> 37:49.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: Marcel Fratzscher is one of Germany's most respected economists. 37:49.666 --> 37:54.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He says that, after decades of growth and strength, the nation's economy is now at a 37:54.433 --> 37:55.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% tipping point. 37:55.900 --> 37:57.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% MARCEL FRATZSCHER: People are worried about their jobs. 37:57.400 --> 37:59.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% People are worried about what they have achieved in the past. 37:59.933 --> 38:03.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And the first sign of that is high inflation currently. 38:03.366 --> 38:08.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Most people, in particular, people with low incomes, are experiencing a massive cut in 38:09.800 --> 38:12.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the purchasing power of their income and the living standard. 38:12.200 --> 38:14.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So people are scared. 38:14.166 --> 38:17.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% BRIGITTE WEINBECK, Pensioner (through translator): I shop more consciously. 38:17.633 --> 38:21.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% For example, I always make a plan at the beginning of the week about what I'm going to cook and 38:21.933 --> 38:24.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% when, and then I go shopping. 38:24.200 --> 38:27.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Otherwise, one sometimes has impulse purchases in between. 38:27.633 --> 38:29.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I avoid those now. 38:29.666 --> 38:33.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: Berliners are constantly reminded of the source of their troubles by 38:33.233 --> 38:38.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the monument commemorating the Russian-dominated Red Army that helped defeat the Nazis in World 38:38.700 --> 38:41.266 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% War II. 38:41.266 --> 38:46.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Outside Russia's embassy, Ukrainian folk music plays as a permanent protest against an invasion 38:48.566 --> 38:52.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% which has fueled inflation, created an energy crisis and stripped Germany of its defensive 38:52.633 --> 38:54.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% capacity. 38:54.600 --> 38:59.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Politicians insist that Germany is resolute in its support for Ukraine, but some beg to 38:59.666 --> 39:02.200 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% differ. 39:02.200 --> 39:03.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ERIC HANSEN, "The George Washington of Achievement": In my conversations with them, they're saying 39:03.333 --> 39:04.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that things are getting more expensive. 39:04.266 --> 39:06.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That's what is the main thing. 39:06.333 --> 39:10.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think they would gladly give the Ukraine to the Russian, most Germans. 39:12.533 --> 39:14.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And they certainly do not want to give more money than they're already giving. 39:14.600 --> 39:18.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: American author and social commentator Eric Hansen has lived in Berlin 39:18.900 --> 39:22.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% for decades and has written more than a dozen books in German. 39:22.100 --> 39:24.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ERIC HANSEN: They want a certain amount of prosperity. 39:24.433 --> 39:28.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And if you threaten to take it away, that's when they turn into different people. 39:28.966 --> 39:33.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You could see that in 2015, when the migrants came in, and they were really afraid of losing 39:35.500 --> 39:36.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% prosperity. 39:36.966 --> 39:38.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that's when all the morals went out the window. 39:38.866 --> 39:43.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: The Brandenburg Gate was once the Iron Curtain's western frontier. 39:43.366 --> 39:46.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Today, it's symbolic of Germany's current divisions. 39:46.533 --> 39:50.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Many in the former communist East believe Moscow's propaganda. 39:50.266 --> 39:55.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% THOMAS WIEGOLD, Defense Analyst: Germans are rather afraid, because remembering the Second 39:56.633 --> 40:00.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% World War Is still very present in the collective memory. 40:02.600 --> 40:05.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% NARRATOR: More of that captured German film, propaganda pictures, with which the Germans 40:07.033 --> 40:08.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% hoped to prove themselves unbeatable. 40:08.566 --> 40:12.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% THOMAS WIEGOLD: Everybody had a grandfather who was in this war. 40:12.866 --> 40:17.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% NARRATOR: We know how his war machines stabbed into the territory of our ally, but we all 40:17.833 --> 40:19.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% know too what it has cost him. 40:19.933 --> 40:23.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And he's far from achieving his object,the destruction of the Red Army. 40:23.700 --> 40:28.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% THOMAS WIEGOLD: It's something Germans are aware of and really are afraid that this could 40:30.100 --> 40:31.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% happen again. 40:31.700 --> 40:36.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% NARRATOR: Of course, the Soviet has lost tanks, hundreds of them. 40:37.233 --> 40:39.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So has Hitler in thousands. 40:39.300 --> 40:43.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: Thomas Wiegold is one of Germany's leading defense analysts. 40:43.200 --> 40:48.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He says the nation's military is alarmed at how support for Ukraine has eroded its own 40:48.933 --> 40:50.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% capabilities. 40:50.966 --> 40:54.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% THOMAS WIEGOLD: It's an open secret that ammunition stocks are running pretty low. 40:57.066 --> 41:02.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Officially and unofficially, the German armed forces are not in a position to fight a real 41:04.733 --> 41:06.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% war at the moment. 41:06.800 --> 41:11.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: How long could Germany defend itself for, do you think, if there was a hot 41:12.300 --> 41:14.433 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% war? 41:14.433 --> 41:18.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% THOMAS WIEGOLD: If there was a hot war, Germany would have a real problem when it comes to 41:19.500 --> 41:21.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ammunition, certain types of ammunition. 41:21.666 --> 41:24.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The stocks are down to a few days' worth. 41:24.500 --> 41:28.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So this would mean Germany would have to rely on allies. 41:28.666 --> 41:33.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: Besides defense, energy is Germany's most pressing concern. 41:35.466 --> 41:37.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Despite the war, the country's nuclear power stations have been shut down. 41:37.533 --> 41:41.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALBERT STEGEMANN, Christian Democrats (through translator): In the long term, nuclear power 41:41.700 --> 41:45.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is certainly not the technology of the future, but, at this time, it would have been good 41:45.800 --> 41:48.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to be able to rely on it. 41:48.400 --> 41:51.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: Deprived of Russian gas supplies, Germany is now importing higher-priced liquid 41:51.800 --> 41:56.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% natural gas to protect its economy and keep its citizens warm. 41:56.666 --> 41:59.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Germany's green energy sources aren't sufficient to fill the gap. 41:59.700 --> 42:02.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Klaus Mueller is the country's energy overseer. 42:02.233 --> 42:03.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KLAUS MUELLER, President, German Federal Network Agency: So what we need to do is, we need 42:03.900 --> 42:06.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to be creative and innovative. 42:06.600 --> 42:10.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We need to save energy, and we need to invest in renewables. 42:10.400 --> 42:15.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% MARCEL FRATZSCHER: Many companies might not survive the next five years, either because 42:16.266 --> 42:17.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% energy costs are too high. 42:17.466 --> 42:19.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% WOMAN: We're planning a heat pump. 42:19.400 --> 42:23.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: Despite boasts about its carbon footprint, the chemical giant BASF 42:23.500 --> 42:28.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% plans to relocate part of its production to China, blaming high energy costs at home. 42:28.300 --> 42:33.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WOMAN: And to power our own factories, we're building an offshore wind farm, the biggest 42:33.900 --> 42:36.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% in the world. 42:36.500 --> 42:40.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: German prosperity has traditionally been rooted in the power of its motor manufacturing, 42:41.366 --> 42:43.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but Fratzscher says that's no longer the case. 42:43.366 --> 42:47.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MARCEL FRATZSCHER: Car companies and other companies are losing out in global competition. 42:47.100 --> 42:48.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% MALCOLM BRABANT: But is he downhearted? 42:48.900 --> 42:50.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% No, he's not. 42:50.900 --> 42:54.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MARCEL FRATZSCHER: Germany's economic future might look very difficult, but Germany has 42:56.866 --> 42:59.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a lot of strengths that are underestimated, often not seen, and which have been essential 43:02.000 --> 43:05.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for Germany to manage big transitions, big challenges over the last 70, 80 years. 43:07.266 --> 43:12.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: While Germany is not as badly off as other nations around the world, it 43:13.633 --> 43:17.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% has definitely lost its economic and defensive oomph. 43:17.233 --> 43:19.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But at least it still got its oompah. 43:19.666 --> 43:21.666 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% (MUSIC) 43:21.666 --> 43:25.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MALCOLM BRABANT: For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Malcolm Brabant in Berlin. 43:29.133 --> 43:34.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Elite athletes like Michael Phelps and Serena Williams tend to hold a 43:40.233 --> 43:42.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% special place in America's imagination. 43:42.933 --> 43:47.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% It's almost as if such sports stars are mythical figures capable of executing greatness at 43:49.100 --> 43:51.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% critical moments when the stakes are high. 43:51.200 --> 43:55.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But a new book debunks that and reveals the rest of us can learn a lot from the sports 43:55.400 --> 43:57.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% greats too. 43:57.500 --> 44:01.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Amna Nawaz recently spoke with Sally Jenkins about her new book called "The Right Call: 44:01.433 --> 44:05.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% What Sports Teach Us About Work and Life." 44:05.300 --> 44:07.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Sally Jenkins, welcome back to the "NewsHour." 44:07.166 --> 44:09.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Thanks so much for joining us. 44:09.200 --> 44:09.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SALLY JENKINS, Author, "The Right Call: What Sports Teach Us About Work and Life": Thanks 44:09.866 --> 44:11.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% for having me. 44:11.900 --> 44:14.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: So, most of us, I think it's fair to say, are nothing like the elite athletes 44:14.766 --> 44:17.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and coaches that you feature in this book. 44:17.100 --> 44:21.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% But you write that there are lessons in their process for all of us. 44:21.833 --> 44:22.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Tell us about that. 44:22.833 --> 44:24.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SALLY JENKINS: Absolutely. 44:24.900 --> 44:27.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think one of the things I have learned in all the years of covering these people is 44:27.800 --> 44:30.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that they're just as flawed and insecure as the rest of us. 44:30.666 --> 44:35.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They just do a better job of sort of mitigating that and finding their weaknesses, facing 44:36.400 --> 44:38.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% them and curing them. 44:38.466 --> 44:42.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: You identify seven key elements in the book for anyone who wants to be able 44:42.566 --> 44:47.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to, as you put it -- quote -- "act well in the face of extraordinary pressures." 44:47.266 --> 44:49.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Who among us doesn't want to? 44:49.833 --> 44:53.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Those seven elements you list are conditioning, practice, discipline, candor, culture, failure, 44:55.000 --> 44:57.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% and intention. 44:57.066 --> 45:00.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I want to start with practice, because that may seem obvious to many people, but you actually 45:00.866 --> 45:03.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% write there's a lot of bad practice out there. 45:03.366 --> 45:05.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% What did you mean by that? 45:05.433 --> 45:08.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SALLY JENKINS: Well, there's a lot of purposeless activity, a lot of meaningless activity with 45:08.533 --> 45:10.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% no real measurable improvement. 45:10.600 --> 45:15.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% All the people I talked to for the book, whether it was Peyton Manning, the Hall of Fame NFL 45:17.766 --> 45:20.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% quarterback, or Steve Kerr, the coach of the Golden State Warriors, they work with a purpose. 45:21.700 --> 45:24.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They diagnose a weakness and then they attack it. 45:24.166 --> 45:29.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Peyton Manning, for instance, early in his career had some unstable feet under pressure 45:30.633 --> 45:32.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% when heavy defensive linemen would dive below his knees. 45:32.766 --> 45:37.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So one of the things that his coaches did with him was, they started hurling heavy sandbags 45:39.000 --> 45:41.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% at his feet in practice to get him a little more stable under pressure. 45:41.133 --> 45:46.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Those are the sorts of granular things that athletes do to work on things that are really 45:48.066 --> 45:50.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% kind of marginal weaknesses, but make an incredible difference under pressure. 45:50.733 --> 45:54.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Knowing and studying your own weaknesses too, that seemed to be a big part 45:54.966 --> 45:56.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of competing at that elite level. 45:56.533 --> 45:58.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% How does that apply to the rest of us? 45:58.400 --> 46:02.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SALLY JENKINS: Well, we all have a lot of unconscious incompetencies. 46:02.033 --> 46:07.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% A Peyton Manning doesn't really know his feet are an issue until a coach like Tony Dungy 46:09.000 --> 46:12.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% gets ahold of him and says, you may have been a top draft pick and a future Hall of Famer, 46:14.366 --> 46:17.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but right now you're a 32-32 quarterback in your won-loss record and you're leading the 46:17.933 --> 46:21.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% league in interceptions, despite all your talent. 46:21.066 --> 46:22.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So let's go fix that. 46:22.933 --> 46:24.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The rest of us, the same thing. 46:24.166 --> 46:26.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We have unconscious incompetencies. 46:26.166 --> 46:30.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We're not aware as we work through our own lives of where our weaknesses really are. 46:30.666 --> 46:33.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And it takes an evaluative eye. 46:33.100 --> 46:37.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it also takes a certain amount of sort of personal courage to say, where am I not 46:37.400 --> 46:39.333 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% great? 46:39.333 --> 46:41.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: In the chapter on candor, you write about language, the difference between 46:41.466 --> 46:43.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% blame and critique. 46:43.566 --> 46:46.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You write -- quote -- "If you want to breed trust, you don't just tell someone what they 46:46.733 --> 46:47.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% did wrong. 46:47.966 --> 46:49.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You tell them how to do it right." 46:49.466 --> 46:52.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Who's a good example of that you have seen over the years? 46:52.100 --> 46:56.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SALLY JENKINS: Well, Pat Summitt was the greatest example I was ever around. 46:56.433 --> 46:59.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That's where I actually first got that insight. 46:59.200 --> 47:03.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I worked with Pat on some books and hung around her program at the University of Tennessee 47:03.333 --> 47:04.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% quite a bit observing. 47:04.566 --> 47:06.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it was really, really striking. 47:06.733 --> 47:11.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Pat was known as a very demanding coach, as a very disciplined coach and fierce. 47:13.600 --> 47:17.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I never heard her criticize a player without immediately offering the fix. 47:17.200 --> 47:19.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it bred a great deal of trust. 47:19.200 --> 47:23.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% She could then -- she could yell at players because they knew she was going to offer the 47:23.066 --> 47:25.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% solution in the next breath. 47:25.166 --> 47:28.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: There's a powerful line from Pat Summitt you have quoted that really resonated 47:28.533 --> 47:30.200 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% with me. 47:30.200 --> 47:34.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% She said: "No one cares how much until they know how much you care." 47:34.266 --> 47:36.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% How did that show up in her leadership? 47:36.333 --> 47:40.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SALLY JENKINS: Well, followers -- it turns out that teams actually have a lot more power 47:41.666 --> 47:43.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% than the coaches or the leaders. 47:43.700 --> 47:47.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I have seen countless teams take their coaches down by rebelling quietly. 47:50.000 --> 47:54.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Quiet mutinies in a locker room is something you see quite a lot in sportswriting. 47:54.166 --> 47:56.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You know it when you see it. 47:56.300 --> 48:00.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And Pat Riley, the president of the Miami Heat, has a really great description of what 48:00.533 --> 48:04.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% happens when followers don't trust the intentions of their leaders. 48:04.900 --> 48:09.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They start doing what Riley called subtly gearing down their efforts and enrolling others 48:11.066 --> 48:13.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in their own cycles of disappointment. 48:13.033 --> 48:15.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Sally, you write a lot about organizational culture and success. 48:15.866 --> 48:20.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We are speaking amid a lot of turmoil in the golf world, with the PGA Tour partnering with 48:20.766 --> 48:22.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that Saudi-funded LIV Tour. 48:22.633 --> 48:24.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's under a lot of scrutiny. 48:24.600 --> 48:26.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Should that deal have happened? 48:26.600 --> 48:30.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SALLY JENKINS: It's an essay in some of the worst leadership I have ever seen. 48:30.100 --> 48:35.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The hallmarks of really bad leadership are secrecy, lack of transparency, lack of preparation. 48:36.300 --> 48:38.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% All of those things, the PGA Tour was guilty of. 48:38.633 --> 48:43.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They announced this deal without consulting anybody on the policy board of directors or 48:43.133 --> 48:47.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% any of their players, and their constituency has just absolutely rebelled. 48:47.800 --> 48:52.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The secrecy led to inquiry from everyone from Senator Richard Blumenthal and his committee 48:54.066 --> 48:56.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to the Department of Justice. 48:56.066 --> 49:00.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, there's just fallout after fallout here, because they violated some pretty basic 49:02.133 --> 49:04.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% principles of good organizational leadership. 49:04.400 --> 49:09.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Sally, while I have you, I have to ask you about an incredibly powerful piece 49:11.866 --> 49:14.766 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you wrote recently, a joint profile of two tennis greats, Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova, 49:16.700 --> 49:19.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not only the fiercest of rivals, but also the closest of friends for decades. 49:19.833 --> 49:22.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Both ended up battling cancer at the same time. 49:22.466 --> 49:24.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I want to play just a part of your interview with them. 49:24.566 --> 49:26.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CHRIS EVERT, Former Professional Tennis Player: Yes, and we went through the -- pretty much 49:26.933 --> 49:29.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% the same things in life. 49:29.466 --> 49:31.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% MARTINA NAVRATILOVA, Former Professional Tennis Player: The trajectory, it's amazing, really. 49:31.600 --> 49:33.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CHRIS EVERT: And we're going through this together, which is like -- I love the phrase 49:33.633 --> 49:35.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% know we're in the trenches together. 49:35.266 --> 49:37.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Like, we have been in the trenches together our whole life. 49:37.633 --> 49:41.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Sally, this was a sports story, but it really wasn't. 49:41.366 --> 49:44.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Why do you think it resonated so much with so many people? 49:44.400 --> 49:49.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% SALLY JENKINS: Well, I think that, first of all, the reconciliation between the two of 49:51.033 --> 49:53.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% them after this epic ride rivalry is just - - it's very touching. 49:53.066 --> 49:57.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There's something moving about the fact that you can be the greatest opponents in the world 49:57.166 --> 49:59.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and somehow emerge from that friends. 49:59.800 --> 50:04.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think there's a real craving for sort of more gentle relationships in the world right 50:04.733 --> 50:05.733 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% now. 50:05.733 --> 50:07.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So I think that resonated. 50:07.166 --> 50:10.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Cancer is certainly such a common experience for Americans. 50:10.133 --> 50:13.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And, frankly, a lot of people grew up with these two women. 50:13.566 --> 50:15.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% They were revolutionaries. 50:15.566 --> 50:20.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They established, as Chris Evert so beautifully put it, the right of women, the permission 50:22.100 --> 50:24.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for women to really compete all out. 50:24.866 --> 50:29.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So they resonate with people in, I think, probably five or six different faceted ways. 50:29.533 --> 50:34.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And all of that came together in the perfect storm of this story about their friendship. 50:34.300 --> 50:38.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Sally, it strikes me no one could have written that story but you. 50:38.633 --> 50:40.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You have covered them for so long. 50:40.433 --> 50:43.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You have covered all the greats in your book for so long. 50:43.000 --> 50:47.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What's it like to look back on that and think about that front-row seat to sports history 50:47.266 --> 50:48.833 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% you have had? 50:48.833 --> 50:50.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SALLY JENKINS: Well, that's partly why I wrote the book. 50:50.966 --> 50:54.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I -- it's -- the book is really, in some ways, a letter of appreciation to people like Chris 50:54.400 --> 50:59.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Evert and Martina Navratilova, who I started covering in 1984, when I was a very young 50:59.866 --> 51:01.166 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% writer. 51:01.166 --> 51:03.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I was about 24 years old, 25 years old. 51:03.133 --> 51:07.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They were just such great examples of how to go about your business, how to strive to 51:08.266 --> 51:09.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% be truly great at something. 51:09.533 --> 51:11.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I was very lucky to be exposed to them early. 51:11.766 --> 51:14.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I have been very lucky to have a front-row seat, and I have taken notes. 51:14.933 --> 51:16.433 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 51:16.433 --> 51:18.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% SALLY JENKINS: So this is my offering from my notebook. 51:18.433 --> 51:23.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: The book is "The Right Call: What Sports Teach Us About Work and Life." 51:23.166 --> 51:24.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The author is Sally Jenkins. 51:24.900 --> 51:26.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Sally, great to speak with you. 51:26.200 --> 51:27.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Thank you. 51:27.400 --> 51:31.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% SALLY JENKINS: Thank you so much. 51:31.100 --> 51:36.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Tanya Aguiniga is a Los Angeles-based artist, designer, and activist who grew up 51:43.366 --> 51:48.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as a binational citizen of Mexico and the U.S. Much of her work is centered on her dual 51:50.400 --> 51:53.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% identity and tells the larger and often invisible stories of her transnational community. 51:55.733 --> 51:59.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Tonight, she shares her Brief But Spectacular take as part of our arts and culture series, 51:59.966 --> 52:02.066 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Canvas. 52:02.066 --> 52:05.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% TANYA AGUINIGA, Artist: I, along with millions of people along the U.S.-Mexico border, grew 52:07.333 --> 52:09.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% up crossing the border every single day to go to school in the U.S. 52:09.500 --> 52:14.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I would go with my dad at like 3:30 in the morning to get to school by 8:00 because the 52:14.433 --> 52:16.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% border crossing is that long. 52:16.533 --> 52:19.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I would have to take two buses to the border to wait in line, walk across the border, then 52:19.733 --> 52:24.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% take a trolley to take the train to the town where my high school was or my junior high, 52:25.900 --> 52:28.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then take a bus from there over to school. 52:28.700 --> 52:33.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The majority of us that live in the borderlands on the Mexican side know that crossing the 52:38.200 --> 52:43.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% border and getting a job on the U.S. side is a necessity to be able to survive. 52:45.233 --> 52:48.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Crossing the border, it's such a stigmatizing experience, and most of us don't really talk 52:48.533 --> 52:49.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% about it. 52:49.533 --> 52:50.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% A lot of us are U.S. citizens. 52:50.800 --> 52:52.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% A lot of people have green cards. 52:52.933 --> 52:54.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Most people are paying taxes. 52:54.266 --> 52:57.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But we don't usually express our needs. 52:57.300 --> 53:01.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In a lot of those difficult times, I would have liked for someone to just check in on 53:01.166 --> 53:03.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% me and ask if I was OK. 53:03.200 --> 53:07.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So I started AMBOS, which stands for Art Made Between Opposite Sides, in 2016. 53:07.366 --> 53:12.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% The AMBOS project came out of me just wanting to check in on people. 53:14.266 --> 53:18.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I wanted to come back to the border and do work specifically using the border space as 53:20.166 --> 53:22.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% a place of dialogue. 53:22.200 --> 53:26.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% One of the biggest projects that we did with the AMBOS project was the Border Quipu. 53:26.266 --> 53:31.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% A quipu is an Andean, a pre-Colombian organizational system. 53:31.066 --> 53:36.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I came up with using the quipu as a way to record our daily migrations to the north. 53:36.000 --> 53:41.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% We went car to car and gave people these postcards and asked people to write a small reflection 53:42.433 --> 53:44.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of what their thoughts were when they crossed the border. 53:44.966 --> 53:48.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the postcards had two strings on them and asked them to please make an emotional 53:48.966 --> 53:51.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% knot that represented any of their emotions. 53:51.900 --> 53:56.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And then through the joining of these knots, we would be able to see ourselves in connection 53:56.400 --> 54:01.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with our larger community and that we would understand that we're not alone in this. 54:01.000 --> 54:06.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% We ended up taking three years and traveling across the entirety of the U.S.-Mexico border, 54:07.100 --> 54:09.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we engaged over 10,000 people. 54:09.066 --> 54:13.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I hope that, when people see my work, they feel like there's space within the work for 54:15.900 --> 54:19.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% them to see themselves mirrored in it and that they find some type of little home within 54:20.600 --> 54:23.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it for themselves and for their own perspectives. 54:23.166 --> 54:27.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% My name is Tanya Aguiniga, and this is my Brief But Spectacular take on using craft 54:27.400 --> 54:30.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to push back on injustice. 54:30.033 --> 54:34.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: And you can watch more Brief But Spectacular videos online at PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief. 54:37.433 --> 54:39.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's the "NewsHour" for tonight. 54:39.433 --> 54:43.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Remember, there's a lot more online, including a story about the long-term financial and 54:43.300 --> 54:48.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% emotional distress for folks in Missouri a year after catastrophic flooding in St. Louis. 54:49.566 --> 54:51.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That's at PBS.org/NewsHour. 54:51.766 --> 54:53.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I'm Geoff Bennett. 54:53.033 --> 54:57.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Thanks for spending part of your evening with us.