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GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

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I'm Geoff Bennett.

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Amna Nawaz is away.

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On the "NewsHour" tonight: IRS 
whistle-blowers testify before 
Congress, claiming the Justice

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Department slow-walked an 
investigation into Hunter Biden.

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New reporting highlights 
Donald Trump's plans 
to expand executive 
power and limit judicial

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independence if reelected.

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And Judy Woodruff hears from 
a panel of Iowa voters about 
the role of politics in their

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lives and their hopes 
for overcoming divisions.

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SARAH LONGWELL, Longwell 
Partners: Bluer cities 
and redder sort of 
rural areas, and so the

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less people talk to each other, 
the less they have a really 
good frame of reference for

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how somebody might 
actually think.

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(BREAK)

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GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome 
to the "NewsHour."

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Tens of millions of 
Americans have spent another 
day under heat watches, 
warnings, or advisories

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in this long, hot 
summer of 2023.

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The low temperature in Phoenix 
early today was 97, a record.

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That followed 19 straight 
days with highs of 110 
degrees, also a record.

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Billboards around the city 
displayed the brutally 
high temperatures, while 
Arizonans and their

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dogs adjusted their schedules to 
escape the dangerous conditions.

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HEATHER MOOS, Arizona 
Resident: We stay hydrated.

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They drink a lot of water.

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And then we're inside 
during the day.

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And, when the sun goes 
down, we're out walking 
and going to the park.

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So I guess we have 
to be vampires in 
this kind of weather.

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GEOFF BENNETT: Searing heat 
overseas plagued firefighters in 
Greece as they battled wildfires

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near Athens for a third day.

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And the streets in Sardinia, 
Italy, were deserted as 
temperatures neared 108 degrees.

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A federal judge in New York 
has upheld a jury award of $5 
million against former President

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Trump.

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The jury found he sexually 
abused writer E. Jean Carroll 
in 1996 and defamed her in his

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denial.

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Today, the judge ruled 
the award was reasonable.

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He said that it -- quote -- 
"did not deviate materially 
from reasonable compensation so

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as to make it excessive."

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A separate federal judge 
refused today to take over a 
state court case involving Mr.

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Trump's alleged hush money 
payments to an adult film star.

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In Southern Ukraine, heavy 
Russian air raids pounded Black 
Sea port facilities overnight.

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Ukrainian officials report 
dozens of missiles and drones 
hit Odessa for a second straight

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night.

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The barrage damaged critical 
grain and oil terminals and 
destroyed 60,000 tons of grain.

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Russia had suspended 
a deal allowing Black 
Sea grain shipments.

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The president of Israel, Isaac 
Herzog, went before the U.S. 
Congress today and acknowledged

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criticism of Israel's 
far right government.

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Herzog's office is nonpartisan, 
but his appearance was boycotted 
by a handful of progressive

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Democrats over Israel's 
treatment of Palestinians.

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ISAAC HERZOG, Israeli President: 
I respect criticism, especially 
from friends, although

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one does not always 
have to accept it.

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But criticism of Israel must 
not cross the line into negation 
of the state of Israel's

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right to exist.

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(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

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GEOFF BENNETT: Over the weekend, 
the leading House progressive, 
Democrat Pramila Jayapal,

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branded Israel a -- 
quote -- "racist state."

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She later apologized.

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But, on Tuesday, the 
House overwhelmingly 
passed a resolution 
reaffirming U.S. support

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for Israel.

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The Biden White House 
proposed new guidelines for 
corporate mergers today.

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It also called for action 
against junk fees charged by 
landlords and price-gouging in

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the food industry.

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The president met his so-called 
Competition Council at the 
White House to discuss the

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proposals.

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They're subject of public 
comment and revision 
before taking effect.

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And, on Wall Street today, 
stocks edged higher again after 
a series of profit reports from

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major banks.

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The Dow Jones industrial 
average gained 109 
points to close at 35061.

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The Nasdaq rose four points.

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The S&P 500 added 10.

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And Major League Baseball 
has done something it had 
not done in 129 years.

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On Tuesday, 12 teams 
scored in double figures.

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The Chicago Cubs led 
the list, routing the 
Washington Nationals 17-3.

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The only day with more offense 
was July 4, 1894, when 13 
teams scored in double digits.

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And still to come on the 
"NewsHour": jurors weigh the 
fate of the Pittsburgh synagogue

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shooter; Germany's standing as 
an economic powerhouse grows 
increasingly uncertain; and

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author Sally Jenkins talks 
about her new book on life 
lessons learned from sports.

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A pair of IRS whistle-blowers 
testified today before the 
House Oversight Committee about

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alleged meddling in 
the Justice Department 
investigation of Hunter Biden.

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You will recall that Hunter 
Biden reached an agreement to 
plead guilty to two federal

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misdemeanor counts of 
failing to pay his taxes.

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He also agreed to abide by a 
set of conditions to avoid a 
separate felony gun possession

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charge.

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The whistle-blowers say those 
charges and this case are 
out of line with the norm.

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Democrats dispute that.

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Lisa Desjardins was in the 
hearing room today and joins 
us now from Capitol Hill.

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So, Lisa, what did these 
whistle-blowers allege were the 
problems with the investigation?

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LISA DESJARDINS: Geoff, this 
was a long and, for the most 
part, substantive and serious

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hearing from both sides.

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These were not just 
any IRS agents.

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These were two IRS investigators 
who were the chief two 
investigators in the Hunter

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Biden case.

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They gave a list of things 
that they said were out of the 
norm, unprecedented obstacles

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and changes in the way 
that this case worked.

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Among a few of those things 
that they listed, first, at the 
top, they said that they were

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not allowed to search 
Joe Biden's home where 
Hunter Biden was living, 
that they were blocked

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from interviewing Biden 
grandchildren, who may have been 
able to give testimony about

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Hunter Biden's tax returns, 
that they were prominently not 
-- they did not see the felony

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tax charges that they 
recommended and which they 
said other prosecutors 
early in the case

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also agreed with.

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And they also said they saw 
outside limits on David Weiss.

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He is the U.S. attorney in 
Delaware who is overseeing the 
prosecution and this plea deal

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in the Hunter Biden case.

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One of these two IRS 
whistle-blowers, Joseph 
Ziegler, this was his 
first time talking in

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public today.

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He said he is a gay Democrat.

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He said this is not political, 
but that he did, in fact, see 
signs that there was something

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stifling that prosecutor.

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JOSEPH ZIEGLER, IRS 
Whistle-Blower: It appeared 
to me, based on what I 
experienced, that the

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U.S. attorney in Delaware 
in our investigation was 
constantly hamstrung, 
limited, and marginalized

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by DOJ officials, as well 
as other U.S. attorneys.

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I still think that a 
special counsel is necessary 
for this investigation.

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LISA DESJARDINS: There's no 
reason to believe there will 
be a special counsel in this.

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Ziegler said that, throughout 
the investigation, they 
became scared to ask 
questions that they

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thought would lead to 
the Biden family or Joe 
Biden or his campaign.

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GEOFF BENNETT: Lisa, White House 
officials point out that there 
are often disputes, internal

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disputes, between 
investigators and prosecutors.

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And a White House 
spokesperson today said 
that House Republicans, 
as I look at my notes

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here, were -- quote -- "staging 
partisan stunts to try to damage 
President Biden politically."

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How did Democrats on 
the committee see it?

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LISA DESJARDINS: That's right.

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Democrats see this 
completely differently.

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One thing that was 
unique in this hearing.

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Democrats did not question the 
credibility of these witnesses.

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They said these are career 
professionals, but they said 
they think they got some things

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wrong, that, essentially, 
these were investigators 
versus prosecutors.

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And there's often a 
difference of opinion in how 
a case should be charged.

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Now, they pointed specifically 
to a letter from the U.S. 
attorney in this case, David

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Weiss, that came out in the 
last few weeks, where Weiss was 
very clear, saying: I followed

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the process and I was never 
the authority to bring 
charges in any jurisdiction.

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The whistle-blowers are saying 
that he told them otherwise.

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So there is a difference 
here over what he said.

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But, right now, that prosecutor 
says: No, I was never denied 
any authority that I needed.

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Now, some other points that they 
make, they say that these plea 
deals often indicate charges

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that are graded down from the 
ideal prosecutor charges because 
Hunter Biden has pleaded guilty.

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They also said Joe Biden 
was neither president nor 
vice president for some 
of this investigation.

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Now, Jamie Raskin, the 
head Democrat on this 
committee, said, overall, 
while Hunter Biden

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has admitted to doing wrong, 
and there is a lot to say 
about Hunter Biden, but nothing

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Republicans have shown has 
led anywhere near Joe Biden.

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REP.

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JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): One thing 
you will not hear today is 
any evidence of wrongdoing by

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President Joe Biden 
or his administration.

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Like every other try by our 
colleagues to concoct a scandal 
about President Biden, this

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one is a complete 
and total bust.

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LISA DESJARDINS: Democrats 
also point out that prosecutor 
is a Trump appointee.

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GEOFF BENNETT: So, Lisa, 
based on your reporting, 
where does this head next?

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LISA DESJARDINS: Lots to say.

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There will be more hearings.

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We will see more reports 
from Republicans, especially 
on the House side.

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We also should be on the 
watch, because Republicans 
now are trying to tie 
this to the attorney

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general in this case, 
his past testimony about 
how this was handled.

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I asked Speaker McCarthy about 
this today, and he brought up 
the attorney general saying

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perhaps this will lead down 
the road of questions strong 
enough to even impeach him.

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He's not going there yet, 
but he's raising that idea.

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One last thing, Geoff.

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Hunter Biden himself, that 
plea deal, the hearing, the 
next hearing in that case is

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next week.

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The judge, of course, 
has to approve that deal 
for it to go through.

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GEOFF BENNETT: Lisa Desjardins.

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Lisa, thanks, as always.

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LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

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GEOFF BENNETT: Donald Trump 
and his allies are preparing 
for a second term in office

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that would massively expand 
the power of the presidency, 
centralizing control within the

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Oval Office.

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Laura Barron-Lopez explains.

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LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Strip tens 
of thousands of career civil 
servants of protections and

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replace them with 
political hires and exert 
political influence over 
the Justice Department,

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these are some of the agenda 
items under discussion 
among former President 
Donald Trump and his

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allies if he retakes 
office in 2024, according 
to recent reports by 
The New York Times and

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The Economist.

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For more on what this would mean 
for our democracy and the power 
of the executive branch, I'm

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joined by Ruth Ben-Ghiat.

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She's a history professor at 
New York University and an 
expert on authoritarianism.

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Ruth, thank you so 
much for joining us.

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The New York Times and The 
Economist spoke to a number of 
former and current Donald Trump

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advisers about this effort to 
radically expand the executive.

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One of them, the former 
Office of Management 
and Budget Director 
Russell Vought, told The

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Times this: "What we're trying 
to do is identify the pockets 
of independence and seize them."

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Ruth, you have said that 
there is a term for this.

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What is that term and 
what does it mean?

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RUTH BEN-GHIAT, NYU History 
Professional: Yes, in studies 
of authoritarianism, it's

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autocratic capture, 
autocratic capture.

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And what this Trump adviser 
has described is that.

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When you remake government, 
you remake civil service.

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So you purge people who 
will not be loyal to you.

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So, loyalty becomes 
a requirement, not 
expertise, and you restaff 
government with people who

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will do your bidding 
and, in this way, hugely 
centralizing and increasing 
presidential power.

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And I was also struck by 
his language, seizing, 
looking for pockets of 
independence, and seizing

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them.

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And this also negates the idea 
of an independent civil service 
and independent institutions.

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This is a bedrock of democracy.

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And the word seizing, 
this is not the language 
of democratic reform.

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This is the language of 
authoritarian takeover.

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LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Trump, as 
we know, is facing potentially 
a third indictment in a

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matter of days for his efforts 
to overturn the 2020 election.

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Much of his campaign has been 
centered on his plans to go 
after the Justice Department.

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DONALD TRUMP, Former President 
of the United States: I will 
totally obliterate the deep

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state.

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We will find the globalists, 
warmongers and the bureaucrats 
who have weaponized our justice

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system, and we will escort 
them from federal buildings.

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We're going to get them 
the hell out of government.

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LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Now, Ruth 
Trump's campaign may be the 
most explicit in their plans for

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the Justice Department, but 
think tanks like the American 
First Policy Institute and the

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conservative Heritage Foundation 
have really crafted blueprints 
for any Republican that

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may win the presidency in 2024.

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What's the endgame here?

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RUTH BEN-GHIAT: So, strongmen 
and authoritarians are not 
like other politicians.

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For example, many of them 
are under investigation 
when they run for office.

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That was true with Berlusconi 
in Italy, with Putin, 
with Trump in '16 -- 2016.

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And now he has his legal woes.

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Netanyahu.

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And so the purpose of 
getting into power becomes 
to capture the judicial 
system and make yourself

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untouchable.

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00:15:13,033 --> 00:15:16,966
And we have an example in 
Israel now with Netanyahu 
facing corruption charges.

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00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:22,966
And so he's very focused on 
judicial reform, and this is 
why there are enormous protests

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00:15:24,066 --> 00:15:25,566
against him.

214
00:15:25,566 --> 00:15:28,866
But these are things that 
autocrats do routinely.

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00:15:28,866 --> 00:15:33,866
And so it's interesting to me 
that Trump is able to capitalize 
on this preexisting discourse

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00:15:35,866 --> 00:15:40,866
of the deep state 
that Republicans had 
peddled for many years.

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00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:45,133
And now he's personalized 
it because he has 
so many legal woes.

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00:15:45,133 --> 00:15:50,133
And so he needs to get into 
office and realize the dream 
of becoming untouchable.

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00:15:52,066 --> 00:15:54,966
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: That former 
Trump adviser, Russell Vought, 
that I mentioned has said

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00:15:54,966 --> 00:15:57,700
that this plan is now -- quote 
-- "Republican doctrine."

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00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:02,366
And we have seen other 
candidates, like Florida 
Governor Ron DeSantis, 
who is the leading

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00:16:02,366 --> 00:16:07,366
challenger to Trump, talk about 
plans like this as well, wanting 
to abolish certain agencies

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and take more control.

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00:16:09,333 --> 00:16:11,366
GOV.

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00:16:11,366 --> 00:16:12,733
RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 
Presidential Candidate: 
You're going to see 
the Justice Department

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00:16:12,733 --> 00:16:14,300
turned inside out.

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00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:19,133
For far too long, 
this bureaucracy has 
imposed its will on us.

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00:16:21,166 --> 00:16:23,066
It's about time we impose 
our will on it, and that's 
what we're going to do.

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00:16:23,066 --> 00:16:25,100
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

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00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,733
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Ruth, is 
that also a classic example 
of autocratic capture?

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00:16:27,733 --> 00:16:30,066
RUTH BEN-GHIAT: It is.

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00:16:30,066 --> 00:16:34,633
I mean, federal 
bureaucracy, you take an 
oath to the Constitution.

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00:16:34,633 --> 00:16:39,366
You are serving the public, 
as well as the administration.

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00:16:39,366 --> 00:16:44,366
But DeSantis saying there he's 
going to impose his will is an 
assertion of executive power

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00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:52,500
beyond and -- beyond what is 
proper for an independent and 
democratic political system.

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00:16:55,366 --> 00:16:57,433
It's the same with Trump.

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00:16:57,433 --> 00:17:02,033
Trump is not saying that he's 
going to fire inefficient 
people, he's going to get rid

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00:17:03,133 --> 00:17:05,233
of big government 
because it doesn't work.

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00:17:05,233 --> 00:17:09,233
Trump is saying he's going to 
purge -- quote - - "the sick 
political class that hates our

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00:17:09,233 --> 00:17:10,400
country."

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00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,866
So political attributes 
are at stake here.

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00:17:13,866 --> 00:17:18,866
That's what the criteria 
is, and that's what's 
disturbing in terms of the 
health of our democracy.

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00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:23,933
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Ruth 
Ben-Ghiat of New York 
University, thank you so much.

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00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,333
RUTH BEN-GHIAT: Pleasure.

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00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:35,700
GEOFF BENNETT: Throughout this 
year, Judy Woodruff has been 
examining divisions across

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00:17:38,266 --> 00:17:40,266
the country.

247
00:17:40,266 --> 00:17:44,266
For her latest story, she 
listened in on focus groups in 
Iowa with two-time Trump voters

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00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:49,100
as they talked about how they 
feel about the state of the 
nation, the divisiveness they

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00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:52,066
see, and who they feel 
is responsible for it.

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00:17:52,066 --> 00:17:56,833
A note, we have chosen not 
to include the participants' 
full names after some received

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00:17:56,833 --> 00:17:59,933
harassing calls following 
an earlier story.

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00:17:59,933 --> 00:18:04,933
This story was produced with 
our friends at Iowa PBS and is 
part of Judy's ongoing series

253
00:18:05,666 --> 00:18:07,733
America at a Crossroads.

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00:18:07,733 --> 00:18:11,700
ALLAN, Republican Voter: I 
definitely think the country's 
headed in the wrong direction,

255
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:16,700
and, unfortunately, I think 
we're on that downhill slide, 
that I'm not sure it can be

256
00:18:17,566 --> 00:18:19,666
turned around.

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00:18:19,666 --> 00:18:23,400
JUDY WOODRUFF: That was a 
common feeling among the 
16 two-time Trump voters.

258
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,400
We gathered recently studio 
of Iowa PBS in Johnston for 
a pair of focus groups led by

259
00:18:30,633 --> 00:18:33,866
Republican strategist and 
pollster Sarah Longwell.

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00:18:33,866 --> 00:18:38,400
BRENT, Trump Voter: In Iowa, 
we have a great governor, 
we have great leadership.

261
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,866
However, when you look at the 
country as a whole, it just 
seems like everybody has said.

262
00:18:42,866 --> 00:18:44,933
The country's just 
going down the tubes.

263
00:18:44,933 --> 00:18:49,933
RON, Republican Voter: I agree 
with all the different economics 
and all that, but we are

264
00:18:51,733 --> 00:18:55,566
so polarized that we can't 
come to common ground.

265
00:18:55,566 --> 00:18:58,833
MATT, Republican Voter: 
It almost feels a little 
bit like a civil war.

266
00:18:58,833 --> 00:19:03,533
JUDY WOODRUFF: Following 
the panels, I sat down 
with Longwell, who 
conducts focus groups

267
00:19:03,533 --> 00:19:07,733
with both Republicans 
and Democrats, to talk 
through what we heard.

268
00:19:07,733 --> 00:19:10,400
SARAH LONGWELL, Longwell 
Partners: Mainly, the things 
that you hear -- and I hear this

269
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,300
all the time from Republicans 
-- is they really feel like the 
country is going in the wrong

270
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:15,833
direction.

271
00:19:15,833 --> 00:19:19,033
They want a Republican 
back in power very badly.

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00:19:19,033 --> 00:19:24,033
JUDY WOODRUFF: In terms of these 
Republican voters and their 
view of how divided the country

273
00:19:25,566 --> 00:19:28,400
is, what came across to 
you the most about that?

274
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,333
SARAH LONGWELL: Well, everybody 
does think we're divided.

275
00:19:31,333 --> 00:19:35,433
That is clear in the focus 
groups we did tonight and in the 
focus groups I do all the time.

276
00:19:35,433 --> 00:19:39,100
People are -- they talk 
about things like a national 
divorce or a civil war.

277
00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:40,666
They feel like we're at 
each other's throats.

278
00:19:40,666 --> 00:19:43,333
How many of you think 
we're very divided?

279
00:19:43,333 --> 00:19:47,166
Raise your hands if 
you think we're an 
extremely divided country.

280
00:19:47,166 --> 00:19:48,166
Whose fault do you think it 
is that we're so divided?

281
00:19:48,166 --> 00:19:49,600
WOMAN: The media.

282
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:50,266
SOPHIA, Republican Voter: 
The media, for sure.

283
00:19:50,266 --> 00:19:51,166
WOMAN: Yes.

284
00:19:51,166 --> 00:19:52,166
(CROSSTALK)

285
00:19:52,166 --> 00:19:53,166
WOMAN: And the politicians.

286
00:19:53,166 --> 00:19:54,366
WOMAN: The politicians.

287
00:19:54,366 --> 00:19:55,300
SOPHIA: And they 
perpetuate the hate.

288
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:56,566
I mean, they do it on purpose.

289
00:19:56,566 --> 00:19:58,766
They have an agenda, 
and it is to divide.

290
00:19:58,766 --> 00:20:01,366
And that's what they seek and 
that's what they're doing.

291
00:20:01,366 --> 00:20:02,633
WOMAN: That's how 
they get ratings.

292
00:20:02,633 --> 00:20:04,133
That's how they get money.

293
00:20:04,133 --> 00:20:06,166
SOPHIA: Exactly, because 
that's where the money is.

294
00:20:06,166 --> 00:20:09,133
SARAH LONGWELL: And I'm 
curious, where are you 
getting your information?

295
00:20:09,133 --> 00:20:10,866
Like, where are you -- 
what are you watching?

296
00:20:10,866 --> 00:20:11,866
What are you reading?

297
00:20:11,866 --> 00:20:13,900
What are you listening to?

298
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:17,866
SONYA, Republican Voter: I 
watch BlazeTV and FOX News, 
and I have TRUTH Social.

299
00:20:19,333 --> 00:20:20,900
And I'm all over Twitter.

300
00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:25,200
And I watch Channel 
13, NBC, all the time.

301
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,466
SARAH LONGWELL: News junkie.

302
00:20:26,466 --> 00:20:29,100
SONYA: I like to 
know what's going on.

303
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:33,000
PETER, Republican Voter: Clay 
Travis and Buck Sexton took 
over Rush Limbaugh's show.

304
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,566
They are good.

305
00:20:34,566 --> 00:20:37,733
I mean, these guys, they look 
into things, they know things.

306
00:20:37,733 --> 00:20:39,766
Sean Hannity is 
really good also.

307
00:20:39,766 --> 00:20:43,533
RON: I think I'm smart enough 
to understand when I'm being 
manipulated, all right?

308
00:20:43,533 --> 00:20:45,766
So, all I have to say 
is, I read everything.

309
00:20:45,766 --> 00:20:50,733
I listen to everything, and 
then, what goes in, what goes 
out, and then I just make up

310
00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:55,500
my own decision.

311
00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:59,300
KEVEN, Republican Voter: 
I'm going to blame the 
media and also social media.

312
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:04,266
I think back like 10 years 
ago, 15 years ago, we didn't 
-- it didn't seem so divided.

313
00:21:06,333 --> 00:21:10,433
And it's driven me to seek out 
different news sources now to 
get my news, so I can compare,

314
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:12,866
like Real America's 
Voice and Newsmax.

315
00:21:12,866 --> 00:21:14,066
(CROSSTALK)

316
00:21:14,066 --> 00:21:16,100
SARAH LONGWELL: What 
about you, Mary?

317
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:18,166
MARY, Republican Voter: 
So, I was -- I agree with 
what you were saying.

318
00:21:18,166 --> 00:21:21,666
So social media is a huge thing, 
in my opinion, because you don't 
have a personal relationship

319
00:21:21,666 --> 00:21:23,733
with the people mostly online.

320
00:21:23,733 --> 00:21:28,166
Or like what I would say to 
you right now in person would 
be completely different than

321
00:21:28,166 --> 00:21:30,266
what I might way 
on social media.

322
00:21:30,266 --> 00:21:34,666
SARAH LONGWELL: So it sounds 
like you guys blame the media, 
social media for the division.

323
00:21:35,866 --> 00:21:37,966
How do you feel about 
Democrats in general?

324
00:21:37,966 --> 00:21:42,000
MARY: Generally, any time that 
there's a fight between two 
people, there's never usually

325
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,066
one side that's like 
100 percent right.

326
00:21:44,066 --> 00:21:46,166
It's always somewhere 
in the middle.

327
00:21:46,166 --> 00:21:49,600
And so I'm not ever going to 
say like, this side's completely 
right and this side's completely

328
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,633
wrong.

329
00:21:51,633 --> 00:21:52,333
SARAH LONGWELL: Do you 
guys have friends and 
family who are Democrats?

330
00:21:52,333 --> 00:21:53,200
MAN: Oh, yes.

331
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,200
WOMAN: Yes.

332
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,200
MAN: Yes.

333
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:56,200
(CROSSTALK)

334
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,700
MAN: Yes.

335
00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:58,400
SARAH LONGWELL: And how does 
that -- how do you do with that?

336
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,366
Is it tense?

337
00:21:59,366 --> 00:22:00,266
Can you talk to each other?

338
00:22:00,266 --> 00:22:02,300
Is it -- how is it?

339
00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:05,833
KEVEN: Recently spent some 
time with some relatives that 
are Democrat, and you really

340
00:22:05,833 --> 00:22:10,833
can't talk about Trump or 
Republicans in that house.

341
00:22:12,233 --> 00:22:14,200
I mean, it's just you 
know tread lightly there.

342
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,400
DANIELLE, Republican Voter: 
My closest inner circle 
is mostly like-minded.

343
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,400
They vote Republican 
or pretty conservative.

344
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,400
But, outside of that, I try to 
avoid conversations, because 
they're just never productive.

345
00:22:27,266 --> 00:22:28,800
No one's changing anyone's mind.

346
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,633
JUDY WOODRUFF: I did hear them 
say that they blame the media.

347
00:22:31,633 --> 00:22:36,633
I also heard them say that they 
were reluctant to bring up their 
views with people who disagree

348
00:22:38,833 --> 00:22:43,833
with them politically, for 
fear that they would be 
criticized, they would be called

349
00:22:45,033 --> 00:22:47,066
out.

350
00:22:47,066 --> 00:22:50,266
SARAH LONGWELL: Yes, I do 
hear this all the time, people 
feeling like they can't talk

351
00:22:50,266 --> 00:22:54,433
about their support 
for President Trump or 
can't say that they're 
a Republican without

352
00:22:54,433 --> 00:22:57,666
fear of being shouted down.

353
00:22:57,666 --> 00:23:02,633
I think that both parties, 
members of both parties, sort 
of feel like it's really hot

354
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,866
out there, and when you sort 
of wear your politics on your 
sleeve, that it's inviting

355
00:23:08,733 --> 00:23:10,766
a kind of combative experience.

356
00:23:10,766 --> 00:23:14,900
And I think they feel like a 
real difference from how people 
used to be able to sort of

357
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:17,533
agree to disagree 
maybe 10 15 years ago.

358
00:23:17,533 --> 00:23:19,500
JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes.

359
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:22,033
SARAH LONGWELL: And now 
they feel like it gets 
really personal really fast.

360
00:23:22,033 --> 00:23:25,566
JUDY WOODRUFF: Another 
key division was over 
questions of faith and 
what it means for people's

361
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:28,633
politics.

362
00:23:28,633 --> 00:23:31,066
SARAH LONGWELL: Do you believe 
that it's possible to be very 
liberal, very progressive, but

363
00:23:31,066 --> 00:23:33,666
also be of deep Christian faith?

364
00:23:33,666 --> 00:23:35,233
MAN: No.

365
00:23:35,233 --> 00:23:36,800
SOPHIA: No.

366
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:37,800
No.

367
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,733
SARAH LONGWELL: Tell me more.

368
00:23:39,733 --> 00:23:40,733
Go ahead.

369
00:23:40,733 --> 00:23:42,466
SOPHIA: You can't.

370
00:23:42,466 --> 00:23:45,533
Life is, well, very important.

371
00:23:45,533 --> 00:23:50,100
And if you're a liberal, then 
you are pro-choice, and then 
you believe that it's OK to kill

372
00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:51,766
a baby.

373
00:23:51,766 --> 00:23:56,100
And I don't believe that 
you can believe that 
and be a real Christian.

374
00:23:56,100 --> 00:23:58,633
SARAH LONGWELL: 
What do you think?

375
00:23:58,633 --> 00:24:02,666
AMANDA, Republican Voter: 
Technically, I guess 
you could be, but that 
would mean you're not,

376
00:24:02,666 --> 00:24:07,666
I don't know, allowing 
God's love to be in 
you as much and stuff.

377
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,933
RAMONA, Republican 
Voter: So, I don't think 
that the Democrats -- 
and I hate to say it

378
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,400
like that.

379
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,166
I hate to segregate the party.

380
00:24:20,166 --> 00:24:22,766
They have too many, 
yes, but what if?

381
00:24:22,766 --> 00:24:26,633
Yes, but what if I 
don't feel like a girl?

382
00:24:26,633 --> 00:24:31,633
So, whatever, God -- so, God 
made me a boy, but I don't feel 
like a boy, and so I'm going

383
00:24:33,366 --> 00:24:36,500
to change that.

384
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:38,866
It's just messing with creation.

385
00:24:38,866 --> 00:24:42,233
It's just messing 
with the absolute.

386
00:24:42,233 --> 00:24:46,400
So, when Joe Biden -- 
I know he's a Catholic.

387
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,866
Do you think that 
he's not Catholic?

388
00:24:48,866 --> 00:24:53,866
PETER: I mean, you just -- in 
your original question, God 
is more of a God of just love.

389
00:24:55,033 --> 00:24:57,033
He's a God of right and wrong.

390
00:24:57,033 --> 00:24:58,933
He's a God of truth.

391
00:24:58,933 --> 00:25:01,100
He's a God of righteousness.

392
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:05,566
I mean, you can't be liberal 
and be far left on beliefs and 
then say, oh, I'm a Christian.

393
00:25:10,266 --> 00:25:11,566
Well, you can say it.

394
00:25:11,566 --> 00:25:13,000
That's the -- that's 
the worst thing.

395
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,100
People do say it.

396
00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:19,366
JUDY WOODRUFF: There were strong 
views expressed about whether 
it's possible to be a Democrat,

397
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,200
to be liberal, and have 
a strong Christian faith.

398
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,700
It's almost a barrier.

399
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:27,866
SARAH LONGWELL: Yes, people 
can be really paradoxical.

400
00:25:27,866 --> 00:25:32,866
They can sort of express one 
thing in thinking about it one 
way and then express sort of

401
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:37,100
the complete opposite if 
they're thinking about something 
else in a different frame.

402
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:41,366
You could hear on one hand 
people saying, well, I'd really 
like us to get along more,

403
00:25:41,366 --> 00:25:45,366
and I want us to have 
shared values and have 
these good conversations.

404
00:25:45,366 --> 00:25:49,966
And then you would also hear 
them say, but I don't think 
that you can be a real Christian

405
00:25:49,966 --> 00:25:51,966
and be a progressive.

406
00:25:51,966 --> 00:25:54,000
They didn't think those 
things were compatible.

407
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,500
JUDY WOODRUFF: When it came 
to the idea of their children 
marrying someone of the opposite

408
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:00,600
party, feelings were mixed.

409
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,566
SARAH LONGWELL: Would any of 
you or all of you be OK if 
your child married a Democrat?

410
00:26:07,033 --> 00:26:11,833
RAMONA: My child did marry a 
Democrat, a Democrat lawyer.

411
00:26:12,633 --> 00:26:13,633
(LAUGHTER)

412
00:26:13,633 --> 00:26:15,633
RAMONA: It didn't go well.

413
00:26:15,633 --> 00:26:18,366
SARAH LONGWELL: Is it 
still not going well?

414
00:26:18,366 --> 00:26:19,366
RAMONA: No.

415
00:26:19,366 --> 00:26:20,566
We are estranged.

416
00:26:20,566 --> 00:26:21,966
SARAH LONGWELL: Oh, 
I'm sorry to hear that.

417
00:26:21,966 --> 00:26:22,966
RAMONA: Yes.

418
00:26:22,966 --> 00:26:25,033
Yes.

419
00:26:25,033 --> 00:26:28,966
BRENT: My daughters are both 
very liberal, which pains me, 
but I support them and their

420
00:26:30,866 --> 00:26:34,766
beliefs and try to have 
conversations with them about 
what I believe and why I believe

421
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,800
that way.

422
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,100
And so -- but I don't 
try to change them.

423
00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:42,266
I just let them know 
how I believe and why 
I believe that way.

424
00:26:42,266 --> 00:26:45,733
But if they choose to 
marry a Democrat, I will 
support them 100 percent.

425
00:26:45,733 --> 00:26:48,500
BRIAN, Republican Voter: 
And that, in itself, 
is the root issue.

426
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:53,366
JUDY WOODRUFF: And there 
was even some pushback 
to our framing of some 
of these questions

427
00:26:53,366 --> 00:26:55,166
along partisan lines.

428
00:26:55,166 --> 00:26:57,766
BRIAN: We're all made 
in the image of God.

429
00:26:57,766 --> 00:26:59,800
We're all valued by the creator.

430
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,866
Why are we dividing 
Democrat and Republican?

431
00:27:02,866 --> 00:27:05,333
Like, my mom's a 
liberal Democrat.

432
00:27:05,333 --> 00:27:10,333
And I work in something 
completely different, 
and we have the most 
loving relationship.

433
00:27:12,233 --> 00:27:16,100
It's because I don't identify 
by our relationship based 
on Democrat, Republican.

434
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:17,600
SARAH LONGWELL: Yes.

435
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,366
BRIAN: And I think that's 
the problem in the country.

436
00:27:20,366 --> 00:27:22,466
SARAH LONGWELL: Yes.

437
00:27:22,466 --> 00:27:25,566
One of the things about 
doing the focus groups 
across the political 
spectrum every week now

438
00:27:25,566 --> 00:27:30,566
for years is, oftentimes, 
Americans are closer on a number 
of things than you might think,

439
00:27:32,466 --> 00:27:36,266
and people tend to overestimate 
how different the other side 
is from them or at how mad

440
00:27:37,766 --> 00:27:39,833
they would be.

441
00:27:39,833 --> 00:27:43,533
And some of this comes down 
to the fact that we are now 
geographically very segregated

442
00:27:43,533 --> 00:27:45,166
as a country.

443
00:27:45,166 --> 00:27:49,066
We are -- tend to have 
bluer cities and redder 
sort of rural areas.

444
00:27:49,066 --> 00:27:51,033
JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes.

445
00:27:51,033 --> 00:27:53,166
SARAH LONGWELL: And so the 
less people talk to each other, 
the less they have a really

446
00:27:53,166 --> 00:27:56,766
good frame of reference for how 
somebody might actually think.

447
00:27:56,766 --> 00:28:01,766
Oftentimes, people are a 
little more tolerant, and 
they want us to get along.

448
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,933
Like, they express the fact 
that they would - - they sort 
of lament being this divided,

449
00:28:07,933 --> 00:28:12,666
and they talk in terms of 
wanting America to be a place 
where you can talk about your

450
00:28:12,666 --> 00:28:16,533
disagreements and not feel like 
it's going to be so fraught.

451
00:28:16,533 --> 00:28:21,533
JUDY WOODRUFF: And so a 
mixed picture from these 
Trump voters in Iowa.

452
00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:26,766
Some wish for less division 
and blame the news media, 
especially social media.

453
00:28:28,766 --> 00:28:32,266
And yet they have strong views 
about Democrats, are divided on 
having one in the family, and

454
00:28:33,766 --> 00:28:38,000
question if progressive politics 
and Christianity can coexist.

455
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,000
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm 
Judy Woodruff in Johnston, Iowa.

456
00:28:45,433 --> 00:28:50,433
GEOFF BENNETT: The 2018 massacre 
at the Tree of Life Synagogue 
in Pittsburgh that killed

457
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,400
11 people is considered 
to be the deadliest attack 
on Jews in U.S. history.

458
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,400
A federal jury convicted the 
gunman of 63 charges, including 
11 counts of hate crimes.

459
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,900
And, as John Yang reports, 
the same jury is now deciding 
whether to recommend the death

460
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:14,033
penalty.

461
00:29:14,033 --> 00:29:17,900
JOHN YANG: Geoff, this phase 
of the trial is really what 
the case has been all about.

462
00:29:19,866 --> 00:29:22,600
Defense lawyers readily 
acknowledged during 
the guilt phase that 
the gunman planned and

463
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,600
carried out the attack.

464
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,800
The jury is now in the third 
day of hearing from the 
victims' families and friends.

465
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,733
Later, the defense will 
make its case for a 
sentence of life in prison.

466
00:29:32,733 --> 00:29:36,500
This phase of the 
trial is expected to 
take at least a week.

467
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:40,333
David Harris is a law 
professor at the University 
of Pittsburgh Law School.

468
00:29:40,333 --> 00:29:45,333
He's also an adviser to the 
10.27 Healing Partnership, 
which is a consortium helping

469
00:29:47,233 --> 00:29:50,766
the victims, survivors and 
broader community deal with 
the shooting and its aftermath.

470
00:29:52,766 --> 00:29:55,966
To get to this phase, Mr. 
Harris, they had to go through 
a phase where they determined

471
00:29:57,300 --> 00:29:59,833
that the shooter was eligible 
for the death penalty.

472
00:29:59,833 --> 00:30:03,300
Now they're deciding 
whether or not to recommend 
the death penalty.

473
00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:08,300
Does the law give them any -- 
say anything about what factors 
they ought to be considering

474
00:30:09,033 --> 00:30:10,500
in making this decision?

475
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:11,900
DAVID HARRIS, University of 
Pittsburgh: Yes, it does, John.

476
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:13,900
And it's very clear about this.

477
00:30:13,900 --> 00:30:18,800
At this phase, the penalty 
phase, the jury is to consider 
evidence of aggravating factors

478
00:30:20,666 --> 00:30:24,033
and mitigating factors.

479
00:30:24,033 --> 00:30:28,700
Aggravating factors are things 
that would push the jury 
toward a sentence of death.

480
00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:33,700
And they can be things 
like a killing that is 
particularly heinous, 
victims who are particularly

481
00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:38,700
vulnerable, multiple victims.

482
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:43,666
All of this is spelled out 
in the law, the statutes that 
cover the death penalty and

483
00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:46,600
also by court decisions.

484
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,133
This is balanced, then, 
against mitigating factors 
coming from the defense.

485
00:30:51,133 --> 00:30:56,100
And the defense mitigating 
factors could be things like 
brain trauma, mental illness,

486
00:30:58,366 --> 00:31:00,333
adverse childhood events.

487
00:31:00,333 --> 00:31:03,733
All of that will be weighed 
and balanced by the jury.

488
00:31:03,733 --> 00:31:08,200
And from that weighing and 
balancing, they will make the 
determination of whether this

489
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,566
defendant is sentenced to 
death or life without parole.

490
00:31:11,566 --> 00:31:16,566
JOHN YANG: And what 
the prosecution is 
doing now, putting up 
essentially victim-impact

491
00:31:17,166 --> 00:31:17,966
statements...

492
00:31:17,966 --> 00:31:20,033
DAVID HARRIS: Yes.

493
00:31:20,033 --> 00:31:22,433
JOHN YANG: ... we have heard 
widows talk about losing their 
husbands, grandchildren talk

494
00:31:22,433 --> 00:31:27,433
about losing their grandmother, 
even the girlfriend 
of one of the police 
officers who was wounded

495
00:31:28,833 --> 00:31:31,466
talking about what that 
wound has done to his life.

496
00:31:31,466 --> 00:31:36,466
Is this all in trying to 
convince the jury that it 
is worth the death penalty?

497
00:31:37,766 --> 00:31:39,433
DAVID HARRIS: Yes, 
that's what it is.

498
00:31:39,433 --> 00:31:42,266
This is the prosecution's 
aggravating evidence.

499
00:31:42,266 --> 00:31:47,233
And nothing is typically more 
powerful than testimony from 
people who were victimized

500
00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:52,533
themselves or whose loved ones 
were the subject of the murder.

501
00:31:52,533 --> 00:31:54,633
That's what we have here.

502
00:31:54,633 --> 00:31:58,633
The Supreme Court allows this 
kind of victim-impact evidence 
at this stage to show the jury a

503
00:32:01,433 --> 00:32:03,566
kind of slice of life.

504
00:32:03,566 --> 00:32:06,400
What has it meant that 
this victim has been lost?

505
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,400
What has it meant to the 
families, to the workplace, 
to the community at large?

506
00:32:13,466 --> 00:32:16,400
And the court says that the 
jury can weigh this as part 
of the aggravating factors.

507
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,600
It is typically 
very, very impactful.

508
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,466
JOHN YANG: And based on what 
we have heard in the guilt 
phase of this trial and also

509
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,433
in the phase to determine 
whether he was eligible, 
what do we expect the 
defense, what mitigating

510
00:32:31,566 --> 00:32:33,600
factors do we expect 
the defense to present?

511
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,600
DAVID HARRIS: The defense 
has treated the entire case 
front to back as a preview so

512
00:32:39,466 --> 00:32:41,133
far of its mitigating evidence.

513
00:32:41,133 --> 00:32:43,333
So we know pretty much what 
they're going to bring.

514
00:32:43,333 --> 00:32:48,333
What we will hear about is the 
fact that they say that the 
defendant has a series of mental

515
00:32:50,433 --> 00:32:53,900
illnesses, that perhaps 
he has schizophrenia, 
that he has epilepsy and 
other mental disease,

516
00:32:56,433 --> 00:33:00,633
that he had some very 
terrible things happen 
during his childhood.

517
00:33:00,633 --> 00:33:05,633
As they said in their opening 
argument for this phase of the 
trial, don't add more death

518
00:33:06,766 --> 00:33:08,833
to this, punishment, 
yes, death, no.

519
00:33:08,833 --> 00:33:13,700
JOHN YANG: And on that point, 
I know that you live in -- 
fairly close, relatively close

520
00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:17,333
to the synagogue where 
this shooting took place.

521
00:33:17,333 --> 00:33:21,633
It's a very tight-knit 
community, still very 
much a Jewish enclave.

522
00:33:21,633 --> 00:33:26,633
And I know that there is an 
array of opinions about whether 
this man should get life or

523
00:33:27,366 --> 00:33:29,333
get the death penalty.

524
00:33:29,333 --> 00:33:33,833
What do you hear from your 
neighbors, what do you hear 
from your fellow congregants to

525
00:33:35,066 --> 00:33:37,166
sort of illustrate this?

526
00:33:37,166 --> 00:33:41,533
DAVID HARRIS: Well, this is 
the most common question I get 
asked, as a person who taught

527
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,533
classes to help the community 
come to grips with the trial.

528
00:33:49,466 --> 00:33:52,866
And we're a mixed group of 
opinions, just like Americans 
are, on the death penalty.

529
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:59,233
There are many people who say, 
if this isn't a death penalty 
case, I don't know what it

530
00:34:00,466 --> 00:34:01,966
is.

531
00:34:01,966 --> 00:34:04,233
If anybody ever deserved the 
death penalty, this guy does.

532
00:34:04,233 --> 00:34:09,233
Others are just as opposed to 
the death penalty under any 
circumstances, even these.

533
00:34:10,566 --> 00:34:15,100
So there is not a unanimity 
of opinion on this.

534
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:20,100
What we are is united in our 
determination to support the 
victims, to see the process

535
00:34:22,066 --> 00:34:25,933
through correctly, to see 
the best we can as human 
beings that justice is done.

536
00:34:27,366 --> 00:34:30,100
We don't always get what we 
want out of the legal process.

537
00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:35,100
But what we will get here is, 
we will know that this case 
was carried out consistent

538
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,166
with our values as a community, 
whether our values as a 
Jewish community, an American

539
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,766
community, the 
community of Pittsburgh.

540
00:34:43,766 --> 00:34:45,900
That's what we 
have going for us.

541
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:50,133
But what we're seeing here is 
a city and a community coming 
to grips with the worst thing

542
00:34:50,133 --> 00:34:54,933
that can happen in very 
solid way that seeks justice.

543
00:34:54,933 --> 00:34:58,700
JOHN YANG: David Harris from 
the University of Pittsburgh 
Law School, thank you very much.

544
00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:03,100
DAVID HARRIS: My pleasure.

545
00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:08,100
GEOFF BENNETT: Germany's economy 
has been the envy of Europe 
for decades, but no longer.

546
00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:19,300
The country is now officially 
in recession, and its people, 
who've been used to prosperity,

547
00:35:20,166 --> 00:35:22,133
are now losing confidence.

548
00:35:22,133 --> 00:35:25,233
Much of Germany's current 
troubles have been caused by 
the war in Ukraine, with Germany

549
00:35:25,233 --> 00:35:28,866
turning its back on Russia, 
its former trading partner.

550
00:35:28,866 --> 00:35:32,333
Special correspondent Malcolm 
Brabant reports from Berlin.

551
00:35:32,333 --> 00:35:36,500
MALCOLM BRABANT: This is the 
face of Germany's new poor.

552
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:41,500
Ines, a former nurse and 
therapist, blames soaring energy 
costs for making her a client

553
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:45,600
at one of the country's fastest 
growing sectors, food banks.

554
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,066
Out of embarrassment, 
she doesn't wish to 
give her surname.

555
00:35:49,066 --> 00:35:54,066
INES, Food Bank Client (through 
translator): I never, ever 
thought it would come to this.

556
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:58,000
I worked in this country 
and raised three children.

557
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,400
I bought my own house, and 
I could never have foreseen 
myself in this situation.

558
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,400
MALCOLM BRABANT: Next in line 
is Alina, a hairdresser from 
Luhansk, one of the provinces

559
00:36:08,700 --> 00:36:11,100
in Eastern Ukraine 
occupied by Russian forces.

560
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:16,100
More than one million Ukrainian 
refugees have taken shelter in 
Germany since the war began.

561
00:36:18,133 --> 00:36:20,066
ALINA, Ukrainian Refugee: It 
allows me to eat healthy food, 
because vegetables and fruits

562
00:36:20,066 --> 00:36:21,700
are very expensive here.

563
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:23,166
I can cook something.

564
00:36:23,166 --> 00:36:24,633
I can eat.

565
00:36:24,633 --> 00:36:27,900
I can buy meat, for example, 
because I'm going here.

566
00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:32,733
MALCOLM BRABANT: In this country 
of 88 million, more than two 
million Germans are dependent

567
00:36:32,733 --> 00:36:35,233
on food banks.

568
00:36:35,233 --> 00:36:39,100
This one is run by 
former Dr. Christina Klar 
in a church community 
center in what was West

569
00:36:40,366 --> 00:36:42,433
Berlin.

570
00:36:42,433 --> 00:36:44,533
CHRISTINA KLAR, Food Bank 
Manager (through translator): 
At the beginning of this year,

571
00:36:44,533 --> 00:36:47,300
we had 100 to 120 households.

572
00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:52,300
A household can be one person 
or a family with two adults 
and four or five children.

573
00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:55,966
And the Ukraine war has 
virtually doubled that.

574
00:36:55,966 --> 00:36:58,600
We are now at 200 households.

575
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,866
INES (through translator): 
As you can imagine, 
I'm ashamed to be here.

576
00:37:02,866 --> 00:37:04,833
This is society's bottom layer.

577
00:37:04,833 --> 00:37:08,666
But now there are so many 
middle-class people here.

578
00:37:08,666 --> 00:37:10,866
Yes, and that includes me.

579
00:37:10,866 --> 00:37:14,966
MALCOLM BRABANT: Food banks 
like this one are a real 
indication of poverty in one of

580
00:37:14,966 --> 00:37:17,100
the richest countries 
in the world.

581
00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:20,900
And there are 14 million 
people who are considered 
to be in poverty.

582
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:23,000
That's one in six 
of the population.

583
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,833
MARCEL FRATZSCHER, President, 
German Institute For Economic 
Research: Germany and German

584
00:37:24,833 --> 00:37:27,133
citizens are in 
a state of shock.

585
00:37:27,133 --> 00:37:32,133
The expectation was, even after 
the pandemic, we will return 
to the good old past of the

586
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:38,800
2010s, maximum employment, 
strongly growing wages, highly 
-- high competitiveness with

587
00:37:40,066 --> 00:37:41,566
other economies worldwide.

588
00:37:41,566 --> 00:37:45,266
And now people realize the world 
will never be that way again.

589
00:37:45,266 --> 00:37:49,666
MALCOLM BRABANT: Marcel 
Fratzscher is one of Germany's 
most respected economists.

590
00:37:49,666 --> 00:37:54,433
He says that, after decades 
of growth and strength, the 
nation's economy is now at a

591
00:37:54,433 --> 00:37:55,900
tipping point.

592
00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:57,400
MARCEL FRATZSCHER: People 
are worried about their jobs.

593
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,933
People are worried about what 
they have achieved in the past.

594
00:37:59,933 --> 00:38:03,366
And the first sign of that 
is high inflation currently.

595
00:38:03,366 --> 00:38:08,366
Most people, in particular, 
people with low incomes, are 
experiencing a massive cut in

596
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,200
the purchasing power of their 
income and the living standard.

597
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,166
So people are scared.

598
00:38:14,166 --> 00:38:17,633
BRIGITTE WEINBECK, Pensioner 
(through translator): I 
shop more consciously.

599
00:38:17,633 --> 00:38:21,933
For example, I always make 
a plan at the beginning 
of the week about what 
I'm going to cook and

600
00:38:21,933 --> 00:38:24,200
when, and then I go shopping.

601
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,633
Otherwise, one sometimes has 
impulse purchases in between.

602
00:38:27,633 --> 00:38:29,666
I avoid those now.

603
00:38:29,666 --> 00:38:33,233
MALCOLM BRABANT: Berliners 
are constantly reminded of the 
source of their troubles by

604
00:38:33,233 --> 00:38:38,233
the monument commemorating the 
Russian-dominated Red Army that 
helped defeat the Nazis in World

605
00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:41,266
War II.

606
00:38:41,266 --> 00:38:46,166
Outside Russia's embassy, 
Ukrainian folk music plays 
as a permanent protest 
against an invasion

607
00:38:48,566 --> 00:38:52,000
which has fueled 
inflation, created an 
energy crisis and stripped 
Germany of its defensive

608
00:38:52,633 --> 00:38:54,600
capacity.

609
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,200
Politicians insist that Germany 
is resolute in its support 
for Ukraine, but some beg to

610
00:38:59,666 --> 00:39:02,200
differ.

611
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,333
ERIC HANSEN, "The George 
Washington of Achievement": 
In my conversations with 
them, they're saying

612
00:39:03,333 --> 00:39:04,266
that things are 
getting more expensive.

613
00:39:04,266 --> 00:39:06,333
That's what is the main thing.

614
00:39:06,333 --> 00:39:10,566
And I think they would 
gladly give the Ukraine to 
the Russian, most Germans.

615
00:39:12,533 --> 00:39:14,600
And they certainly do not 
want to give more money 
than they're already giving.

616
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,900
MALCOLM BRABANT: American 
author and social commentator 
Eric Hansen has lived in Berlin

617
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:22,100
for decades and has written more 
than a dozen books in German.

618
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:24,433
ERIC HANSEN: They want a 
certain amount of prosperity.

619
00:39:24,433 --> 00:39:28,966
And if you threaten to take 
it away, that's when they 
turn into different people.

620
00:39:28,966 --> 00:39:33,966
You could see that in 2015, when 
the migrants came in, and they 
were really afraid of losing

621
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:36,966
prosperity.

622
00:39:36,966 --> 00:39:38,866
And that's when all the 
morals went out the window.

623
00:39:38,866 --> 00:39:43,366
MALCOLM BRABANT: The Brandenburg 
Gate was once the Iron 
Curtain's western frontier.

624
00:39:43,366 --> 00:39:46,533
Today, it's symbolic of 
Germany's current divisions.

625
00:39:46,533 --> 00:39:50,266
Many in the former 
communist East believe 
Moscow's propaganda.

626
00:39:50,266 --> 00:39:55,266
THOMAS WIEGOLD, Defense Analyst: 
Germans are rather afraid, 
because remembering the Second

627
00:39:56,633 --> 00:40:00,666
World War Is still very present 
in the collective memory.

628
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,966
NARRATOR: More of that captured 
German film, propaganda 
pictures, with which the Germans

629
00:40:07,033 --> 00:40:08,566
hoped to prove 
themselves unbeatable.

630
00:40:08,566 --> 00:40:12,866
THOMAS WIEGOLD: Everybody had a 
grandfather who was in this war.

631
00:40:12,866 --> 00:40:17,833
NARRATOR: We know how 
his war machines stabbed 
into the territory of 
our ally, but we all

632
00:40:17,833 --> 00:40:19,933
know too what it has cost him.

633
00:40:19,933 --> 00:40:23,700
And he's far from 
achieving his object,the 
destruction of the Red Army.

634
00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:28,700
THOMAS WIEGOLD: It's something 
Germans are aware of and really 
are afraid that this could

635
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:31,700
happen again.

636
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:36,333
NARRATOR: Of course, 
the Soviet has lost 
tanks, hundreds of them.

637
00:40:37,233 --> 00:40:39,300
So has Hitler in thousands.

638
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:43,200
MALCOLM BRABANT: Thomas 
Wiegold is one of Germany's 
leading defense analysts.

639
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:48,166
He says the nation's military 
is alarmed at how support for 
Ukraine has eroded its own

640
00:40:48,933 --> 00:40:50,966
capabilities.

641
00:40:50,966 --> 00:40:54,900
THOMAS WIEGOLD: It's an open 
secret that ammunition stocks 
are running pretty low.

642
00:40:57,066 --> 00:41:02,033
Officially and unofficially, 
the German armed forces are not 
in a position to fight a real

643
00:41:04,733 --> 00:41:06,800
war at the moment.

644
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,766
MALCOLM BRABANT: How long could 
Germany defend itself for, do 
you think, if there was a hot

645
00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:14,433
war?

646
00:41:14,433 --> 00:41:18,300
THOMAS WIEGOLD: If there was a 
hot war, Germany would have a 
real problem when it comes to

647
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:21,666
ammunition, certain 
types of ammunition.

648
00:41:21,666 --> 00:41:24,500
The stocks are down 
to a few days' worth.

649
00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:28,666
So this would mean Germany 
would have to rely on allies.

650
00:41:28,666 --> 00:41:33,666
MALCOLM BRABANT: Besides 
defense, energy is Germany's 
most pressing concern.

651
00:41:35,466 --> 00:41:37,533
Despite the war, the 
country's nuclear power 
stations have been shut down.

652
00:41:37,533 --> 00:41:41,700
ALBERT STEGEMANN, Christian 
Democrats (through translator): 
In the long term, nuclear power

653
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:45,800
is certainly not the technology 
of the future, but, at this 
time, it would have been good

654
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,400
to be able to rely on it.

655
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,800
MALCOLM BRABANT: Deprived 
of Russian gas supplies, 
Germany is now importing 
higher-priced liquid

656
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,666
natural gas to protect 
its economy and keep 
its citizens warm.

657
00:41:56,666 --> 00:41:59,700
Germany's green energy 
sources aren't sufficient 
to fill the gap.

658
00:41:59,700 --> 00:42:02,233
Klaus Mueller is the 
country's energy overseer.

659
00:42:02,233 --> 00:42:03,900
KLAUS MUELLER, President, German 
Federal Network Agency: So 
what we need to do is, we need

660
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:06,600
to be creative and innovative.

661
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,400
We need to save energy, and we 
need to invest in renewables.

662
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,400
MARCEL FRATZSCHER: Many 
companies might not 
survive the next five 
years, either because

663
00:42:16,266 --> 00:42:17,466
energy costs are too high.

664
00:42:17,466 --> 00:42:19,400
WOMAN: We're 
planning a heat pump.

665
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,500
MALCOLM BRABANT: Despite boasts 
about its carbon footprint, 
the chemical giant BASF

666
00:42:23,500 --> 00:42:28,300
plans to relocate part of its 
production to China, blaming 
high energy costs at home.

667
00:42:28,300 --> 00:42:33,300
WOMAN: And to power our own 
factories, we're building an 
offshore wind farm, the biggest

668
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:36,500
in the world.

669
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:40,000
MALCOLM BRABANT: German 
prosperity has traditionally 
been rooted in the power 
of its motor manufacturing,

670
00:42:41,366 --> 00:42:43,366
but Fratzscher says 
that's no longer the case.

671
00:42:43,366 --> 00:42:47,100
MARCEL FRATZSCHER: Car companies 
and other companies are losing 
out in global competition.

672
00:42:47,100 --> 00:42:48,900
MALCOLM BRABANT: But 
is he downhearted?

673
00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:50,900
No, he's not.

674
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:54,866
MARCEL FRATZSCHER: Germany's 
economic future might look 
very difficult, but Germany has

675
00:42:56,866 --> 00:42:59,900
a lot of strengths that are 
underestimated, often not seen, 
and which have been essential

676
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,233
for Germany to manage big 
transitions, big challenges 
over the last 70, 80 years.

677
00:43:07,266 --> 00:43:12,266
MALCOLM BRABANT: While Germany 
is not as badly off as other 
nations around the world, it

678
00:43:13,633 --> 00:43:17,233
has definitely lost its 
economic and defensive oomph.

679
00:43:17,233 --> 00:43:19,666
But at least it 
still got its oompah.

680
00:43:19,666 --> 00:43:21,666
(MUSIC)

681
00:43:21,666 --> 00:43:25,666
MALCOLM BRABANT: For 
the "PBS NewsHour," I'm 
Malcolm Brabant in Berlin.

682
00:43:29,133 --> 00:43:34,133
GEOFF BENNETT: Elite athletes 
like Michael Phelps and 
Serena Williams tend to hold a

683
00:43:40,233 --> 00:43:42,933
special place in 
America's imagination.

684
00:43:42,933 --> 00:43:47,933
It's almost as if such 
sports stars are mythical 
figures capable of 
executing greatness at

685
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:51,200
critical moments when 
the stakes are high.

686
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,400
But a new book debunks that 
and reveals the rest of us can 
learn a lot from the sports

687
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,500
greats too.

688
00:43:57,500 --> 00:44:01,433
Amna Nawaz recently spoke with 
Sally Jenkins about her new 
book called "The Right Call:

689
00:44:01,433 --> 00:44:05,300
What Sports Teach Us 
About Work and Life."

690
00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:07,166
Sally Jenkins, welcome 
back to the "NewsHour."

691
00:44:07,166 --> 00:44:09,200
Thanks so much for joining us.

692
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:09,866
SALLY JENKINS, Author, "The 
Right Call: What Sports Teach 
Us About Work and Life": Thanks

693
00:44:09,866 --> 00:44:11,900
for having me.

694
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:14,766
AMNA NAWAZ: So, most of us, 
I think it's fair to say, are 
nothing like the elite athletes

695
00:44:14,766 --> 00:44:17,100
and coaches that you 
feature in this book.

696
00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:21,833
But you write that there 
are lessons in their 
process for all of us.

697
00:44:21,833 --> 00:44:22,833
Tell us about that.

698
00:44:22,833 --> 00:44:24,900
SALLY JENKINS: Absolutely.

699
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:27,800
I think one of the things I 
have learned in all the years 
of covering these people is

700
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,666
that they're just as flawed 
and insecure as the rest of us.

701
00:44:30,666 --> 00:44:35,666
They just do a better job of 
sort of mitigating that and 
finding their weaknesses, facing

702
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,466
them and curing them.

703
00:44:38,466 --> 00:44:42,566
AMNA NAWAZ: You identify seven 
key elements in the book for 
anyone who wants to be able

704
00:44:42,566 --> 00:44:47,266
to, as you put it -- quote 
-- "act well in the face of 
extraordinary pressures."

705
00:44:47,266 --> 00:44:49,833
Who among us doesn't want to?

706
00:44:49,833 --> 00:44:53,566
Those seven elements you 
list are conditioning, 
practice, discipline, 
candor, culture, failure,

707
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,066
and intention.

708
00:44:57,066 --> 00:45:00,866
I want to start with practice, 
because that may seem obvious 
to many people, but you actually

709
00:45:00,866 --> 00:45:03,366
write there's a lot of 
bad practice out there.

710
00:45:03,366 --> 00:45:05,433
What did you mean by that?

711
00:45:05,433 --> 00:45:08,533
SALLY JENKINS: Well, there's a 
lot of purposeless activity, a 
lot of meaningless activity with

712
00:45:08,533 --> 00:45:10,600
no real measurable improvement.

713
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,300
All the people I talked to for 
the book, whether it was Peyton 
Manning, the Hall of Fame NFL

714
00:45:17,766 --> 00:45:20,466
quarterback, or Steve 
Kerr, the coach of the 
Golden State Warriors, 
they work with a purpose.

715
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:24,166
They diagnose a weakness 
and then they attack it.

716
00:45:24,166 --> 00:45:29,166
Peyton Manning, for instance, 
early in his career had some 
unstable feet under pressure

717
00:45:30,633 --> 00:45:32,766
when heavy defensive linemen 
would dive below his knees.

718
00:45:32,766 --> 00:45:37,366
So one of the things that his 
coaches did with him was, they 
started hurling heavy sandbags

719
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,133
at his feet in practice 
to get him a little more 
stable under pressure.

720
00:45:41,133 --> 00:45:46,133
Those are the sorts of granular 
things that athletes do to 
work on things that are really

721
00:45:48,066 --> 00:45:50,733
kind of marginal weaknesses, 
but make an incredible 
difference under pressure.

722
00:45:50,733 --> 00:45:54,966
AMNA NAWAZ: Knowing and studying 
your own weaknesses too, 
that seemed to be a big part

723
00:45:54,966 --> 00:45:56,533
of competing at 
that elite level.

724
00:45:56,533 --> 00:45:58,400
How does that apply 
to the rest of us?

725
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,033
SALLY JENKINS: Well, 
we all have a lot of 
unconscious incompetencies.

726
00:46:02,033 --> 00:46:07,033
A Peyton Manning doesn't really 
know his feet are an issue 
until a coach like Tony Dungy

727
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,366
gets ahold of him and says, you 
may have been a top draft pick 
and a future Hall of Famer,

728
00:46:14,366 --> 00:46:17,933
but right now you're a 32-32 
quarterback in your won-loss 
record and you're leading the

729
00:46:17,933 --> 00:46:21,066
league in interceptions, 
despite all your talent.

730
00:46:21,066 --> 00:46:22,933
So let's go fix that.

731
00:46:22,933 --> 00:46:24,166
The rest of us, the same thing.

732
00:46:24,166 --> 00:46:26,166
We have unconscious 
incompetencies.

733
00:46:26,166 --> 00:46:30,666
We're not aware as we work 
through our own lives of where 
our weaknesses really are.

734
00:46:30,666 --> 00:46:33,100
And it takes an evaluative eye.

735
00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:37,400
And it also takes a certain 
amount of sort of personal 
courage to say, where am I not

736
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,333
great?

737
00:46:39,333 --> 00:46:41,466
AMNA NAWAZ: In the chapter 
on candor, you write about 
language, the difference between

738
00:46:41,466 --> 00:46:43,566
blame and critique.

739
00:46:43,566 --> 00:46:46,733
You write -- quote -- "If you 
want to breed trust, you don't 
just tell someone what they

740
00:46:46,733 --> 00:46:47,966
did wrong.

741
00:46:47,966 --> 00:46:49,466
You tell them how 
to do it right."

742
00:46:49,466 --> 00:46:52,100
Who's a good example of that 
you have seen over the years?

743
00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:56,433
SALLY JENKINS: Well, Pat 
Summitt was the greatest 
example I was ever around.

744
00:46:56,433 --> 00:46:59,200
That's where I actually 
first got that insight.

745
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,333
I worked with Pat on some books 
and hung around her program 
at the University of Tennessee

746
00:47:03,333 --> 00:47:04,566
quite a bit observing.

747
00:47:04,566 --> 00:47:06,733
And it was really, 
really striking.

748
00:47:06,733 --> 00:47:11,733
Pat was known as a very 
demanding coach, as a very 
disciplined coach and fierce.

749
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,200
But I never heard her 
criticize a player without 
immediately offering the fix.

750
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,200
And it bred a great 
deal of trust.

751
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,066
She could then -- she could 
yell at players because they 
knew she was going to offer the

752
00:47:23,066 --> 00:47:25,166
solution in the next breath.

753
00:47:25,166 --> 00:47:28,533
AMNA NAWAZ: There's a powerful 
line from Pat Summitt you have 
quoted that really resonated

754
00:47:28,533 --> 00:47:30,200
with me.

755
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,266
She said: "No one cares 
how much until they 
know how much you care."

756
00:47:34,266 --> 00:47:36,333
How did that show up 
in her leadership?

757
00:47:36,333 --> 00:47:40,800
SALLY JENKINS: Well, followers 
-- it turns out that teams 
actually have a lot more power

758
00:47:41,666 --> 00:47:43,700
than the coaches or the leaders.

759
00:47:43,700 --> 00:47:47,933
I have seen countless 
teams take their coaches 
down by rebelling quietly.

760
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,166
Quiet mutinies in a locker 
room is something you see 
quite a lot in sportswriting.

761
00:47:54,166 --> 00:47:56,300
You know it when you see it.

762
00:47:56,300 --> 00:48:00,533
And Pat Riley, the president 
of the Miami Heat, has a really 
great description of what

763
00:48:00,533 --> 00:48:04,900
happens when followers 
don't trust the intentions 
of their leaders.

764
00:48:04,900 --> 00:48:09,900
They start doing what Riley 
called subtly gearing down their 
efforts and enrolling others

765
00:48:11,066 --> 00:48:13,033
in their own cycles 
of disappointment.

766
00:48:13,033 --> 00:48:15,866
AMNA NAWAZ: Sally, you write 
a lot about organizational 
culture and success.

767
00:48:15,866 --> 00:48:20,766
We are speaking amid a lot of 
turmoil in the golf world, with 
the PGA Tour partnering with

768
00:48:20,766 --> 00:48:22,633
that Saudi-funded LIV Tour.

769
00:48:22,633 --> 00:48:24,600
It's under a lot of scrutiny.

770
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,600
Should that deal have happened?

771
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,100
SALLY JENKINS: It's an 
essay in some of the worst 
leadership I have ever seen.

772
00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:35,100
The hallmarks of really 
bad leadership are secrecy, 
lack of transparency, 
lack of preparation.

773
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:38,633
All of those things, the 
PGA Tour was guilty of.

774
00:48:38,633 --> 00:48:43,133
They announced this deal without 
consulting anybody on the 
policy board of directors or

775
00:48:43,133 --> 00:48:47,800
any of their players, and 
their constituency has 
just absolutely rebelled.

776
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,800
The secrecy led to inquiry from 
everyone from Senator Richard 
Blumenthal and his committee

777
00:48:54,066 --> 00:48:56,066
to the Department of Justice.

778
00:48:56,066 --> 00:49:00,800
I mean, there's just fallout 
after fallout here, because 
they violated some pretty basic

779
00:49:02,133 --> 00:49:04,400
principles of good 
organizational leadership.

780
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:09,400
AMNA NAWAZ: Sally, while I have 
you, I have to ask you about 
an incredibly powerful piece

781
00:49:11,866 --> 00:49:14,766
you wrote recently, a 
joint profile of two 
tennis greats, Chris Evert 
and Martina Navratilova,

782
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:19,833
not only the fiercest of 
rivals, but also the closest 
of friends for decades.

783
00:49:19,833 --> 00:49:22,466
Both ended up battling 
cancer at the same time.

784
00:49:22,466 --> 00:49:24,566
I want to play just a part 
of your interview with them.

785
00:49:24,566 --> 00:49:26,933
CHRIS EVERT, Former Professional 
Tennis Player: Yes, and we 
went through the -- pretty much

786
00:49:26,933 --> 00:49:29,466
the same things in life.

787
00:49:29,466 --> 00:49:31,600
MARTINA NAVRATILOVA, 
Former Professional Tennis 
Player: The trajectory, 
it's amazing, really.

788
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,633
CHRIS EVERT: And we're going 
through this together, which 
is like -- I love the phrase

789
00:49:33,633 --> 00:49:35,266
know we're in the 
trenches together.

790
00:49:35,266 --> 00:49:37,633
Like, we have been in 
the trenches together 
our whole life.

791
00:49:37,633 --> 00:49:41,366
AMNA NAWAZ: Sally, this 
was a sports story, 
but it really wasn't.

792
00:49:41,366 --> 00:49:44,400
Why do you think it resonated 
so much with so many people?

793
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:49,400
SALLY JENKINS: Well, 
I think that, first of 
all, the reconciliation 
between the two of

794
00:49:51,033 --> 00:49:53,066
them after this epic 
ride rivalry is just - 
- it's very touching.

795
00:49:53,066 --> 00:49:57,166
There's something moving about 
the fact that you can be the 
greatest opponents in the world

796
00:49:57,166 --> 00:49:59,800
and somehow emerge 
from that friends.

797
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:04,733
I think there's a real craving 
for sort of more gentle 
relationships in the world right

798
00:50:04,733 --> 00:50:05,733
now.

799
00:50:05,733 --> 00:50:07,166
So I think that resonated.

800
00:50:07,166 --> 00:50:10,133
Cancer is certainly such a 
common experience for Americans.

801
00:50:10,133 --> 00:50:13,566
And, frankly, a lot of people 
grew up with these two women.

802
00:50:13,566 --> 00:50:15,566
They were revolutionaries.

803
00:50:15,566 --> 00:50:20,333
They established, as Chris 
Evert so beautifully put it, the 
right of women, the permission

804
00:50:22,100 --> 00:50:24,866
for women to really 
compete all out.

805
00:50:24,866 --> 00:50:29,533
So they resonate with people 
in, I think, probably five or 
six different faceted ways.

806
00:50:29,533 --> 00:50:34,300
And all of that came together 
in the perfect storm of this 
story about their friendship.

807
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:38,633
AMNA NAWAZ: Sally, it 
strikes me no one could have 
written that story but you.

808
00:50:38,633 --> 00:50:40,433
You have covered 
them for so long.

809
00:50:40,433 --> 00:50:43,000
You have covered all the greats 
in your book for so long.

810
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,266
What's it like to look back 
on that and think about that 
front-row seat to sports history

811
00:50:47,266 --> 00:50:48,833
you have had?

812
00:50:48,833 --> 00:50:50,966
SALLY JENKINS: Well, that's 
partly why I wrote the book.

813
00:50:50,966 --> 00:50:54,400
I -- it's -- the book is 
really, in some ways, a 
letter of appreciation 
to people like Chris

814
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:59,366
Evert and Martina Navratilova, 
who I started covering in 
1984, when I was a very young

815
00:50:59,866 --> 00:51:01,166
writer.

816
00:51:01,166 --> 00:51:03,133
I was about 24 years 
old, 25 years old.

817
00:51:03,133 --> 00:51:07,400
They were just such great 
examples of how to go about 
your business, how to strive to

818
00:51:08,266 --> 00:51:09,533
be truly great at something.

819
00:51:09,533 --> 00:51:11,766
I was very lucky to be 
exposed to them early.

820
00:51:11,766 --> 00:51:14,933
I have been very lucky 
to have a front-row seat, 
and I have taken notes.

821
00:51:14,933 --> 00:51:16,433
(LAUGHTER)

822
00:51:16,433 --> 00:51:18,433
SALLY JENKINS: So this is my 
offering from my notebook.

823
00:51:18,433 --> 00:51:23,166
AMNA NAWAZ: The book is "The 
Right Call: What Sports Teach 
Us About Work and Life."

824
00:51:23,166 --> 00:51:24,900
The author is Sally Jenkins.

825
00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:26,200
Sally, great to speak with you.

826
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:27,400
Thank you.

827
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,100
SALLY JENKINS: 
Thank you so much.

828
00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:36,100
GEOFF BENNETT: Tanya Aguiniga 
is a Los Angeles-based 
artist, designer, and 
activist who grew up

829
00:51:43,366 --> 00:51:48,333
as a binational citizen of 
Mexico and the U.S. Much of her 
work is centered on her dual

830
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,733
identity and tells the larger 
and often invisible stories of 
her transnational community.

831
00:51:55,733 --> 00:51:59,466
Tonight, she shares her Brief 
But Spectacular take as part 
of our arts and culture series,

832
00:51:59,966 --> 00:52:02,066
Canvas.

833
00:52:02,066 --> 00:52:05,666
TANYA AGUINIGA, Artist: I, along 
with millions of people along 
the U.S.-Mexico border, grew

834
00:52:07,333 --> 00:52:09,500
up crossing the border 
every single day to go 
to school in the U.S.

835
00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:14,433
I would go with my dad at like 
3:30 in the morning to get 
to school by 8:00 because the

836
00:52:14,433 --> 00:52:16,533
border crossing is that long.

837
00:52:16,533 --> 00:52:19,733
I would have to take two buses 
to the border to wait in line, 
walk across the border, then

838
00:52:19,733 --> 00:52:24,733
take a trolley to take the 
train to the town where my high 
school was or my junior high,

839
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:28,700
and then take a bus from 
there over to school.

840
00:52:28,700 --> 00:52:33,700
The majority of us that live in 
the borderlands on the Mexican 
side know that crossing the

841
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:43,200
border and getting a job on 
the U.S. side is a necessity 
to be able to survive.

842
00:52:45,233 --> 00:52:48,533
Crossing the border, it's such 
a stigmatizing experience, and 
most of us don't really talk

843
00:52:48,533 --> 00:52:49,533
about it.

844
00:52:49,533 --> 00:52:50,800
A lot of us are U.S. citizens.

845
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,933
A lot of people 
have green cards.

846
00:52:52,933 --> 00:52:54,266
Most people are paying taxes.

847
00:52:54,266 --> 00:52:57,300
But we don't usually 
express our needs.

848
00:52:57,300 --> 00:53:01,166
In a lot of those difficult 
times, I would have liked for 
someone to just check in on

849
00:53:01,166 --> 00:53:03,200
me and ask if I was OK.

850
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,366
So I started AMBOS, which 
stands for Art Made Between 
Opposite Sides, in 2016.

851
00:53:07,366 --> 00:53:12,366
The AMBOS project came 
out of me just wanting 
to check in on people.

852
00:53:14,266 --> 00:53:18,133
I wanted to come back to the 
border and do work specifically 
using the border space as

853
00:53:20,166 --> 00:53:22,200
a place of dialogue.

854
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,266
One of the biggest projects 
that we did with the AMBOS 
project was the Border Quipu.

855
00:53:26,266 --> 00:53:31,066
A quipu is an Andean, 
a pre-Colombian 
organizational system.

856
00:53:31,066 --> 00:53:36,000
I came up with using the 
quipu as a way to record our 
daily migrations to the north.

857
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:41,000
We went car to car and 
gave people these postcards 
and asked people to 
write a small reflection

858
00:53:42,433 --> 00:53:44,966
of what their thoughts were 
when they crossed the border.

859
00:53:44,966 --> 00:53:48,966
And the postcards had two 
strings on them and asked them 
to please make an emotional

860
00:53:48,966 --> 00:53:51,900
knot that represented 
any of their emotions.

861
00:53:51,900 --> 00:53:56,400
And then through the joining of 
these knots, we would be able 
to see ourselves in connection

862
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:01,000
with our larger community 
and that we would understand 
that we're not alone in this.

863
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:06,000
We ended up taking three 
years and traveling 
across the entirety of 
the U.S.-Mexico border,

864
00:54:07,100 --> 00:54:09,066
and we engaged 
over 10,000 people.

865
00:54:09,066 --> 00:54:13,966
I hope that, when people see 
my work, they feel like there's 
space within the work for

866
00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:19,166
them to see themselves mirrored 
in it and that they find some 
type of little home within

867
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,166
it for themselves and for 
their own perspectives.

868
00:54:23,166 --> 00:54:27,400
My name is Tanya Aguiniga, 
and this is my Brief But 
Spectacular take on using craft

869
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,033
to push back on injustice.

870
00:54:30,033 --> 00:54:34,000
GEOFF BENNETT: And you 
can watch more Brief But 
Spectacular videos online 
at PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief.

871
00:54:37,433 --> 00:54:39,433
And that's the 
"NewsHour" for tonight.

872
00:54:39,433 --> 00:54:43,300
Remember, there's a lot more 
online, including a story about 
the long-term financial and

873
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:48,300
emotional distress for 
folks in Missouri a 
year after catastrophic 
flooding in St. Louis.

874
00:54:49,566 --> 00:54:51,766
That's at PBS.org/NewsHour.

875
00:54:51,766 --> 00:54:53,033
I'm Geoff Bennett.

876
00:54:53,033 --> 00:54:57,766
Thanks for spending part 
of your evening with us.