1 00:00:02,433 --> 00:00:04,666 GEOFF BENNETT: Throughout this year, Judy Woodruff has been examining divisions across the country. 2 00:00:04,666 --> 00:00:09,666 For her latest story, she listened in on focus groups in Iowa with two-time Trump 3 00:00:11,633 --> 00:00:13,366 voters as they talked about how they feel about the state of the nation, 4 00:00:13,366 --> 00:00:17,633 the divisiveness they see, and who they feel is responsible for it. 5 00:00:17,633 --> 00:00:20,866 A note, we have chosen not to include the participants' full 6 00:00:20,866 --> 00:00:25,200 names after some received harassing calls following an earlier story. 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,266 This story was produced with our friends at Iowa PBS and is part 8 00:00:29,266 --> 00:00:32,433 of Judy's ongoing series America at a Crossroads. 9 00:00:32,433 --> 00:00:37,166 ALLAN, Republican Voter: I definitely think the country's headed in the wrong direction, 10 00:00:37,166 --> 00:00:42,133 and, unfortunately, I think we're on that downhill slide, that I'm not sure it can be turned around. 11 00:00:43,866 --> 00:00:47,966 JUDY WOODRUFF: That was a common feeling among the 16 two-time 12 00:00:47,966 --> 00:00:52,933 Trump voters. We gathered recently studio of Iowa PBS in Johnston for 13 00:00:54,933 --> 00:00:59,633 a pair of focus groups led by Republican strategist and pollster Sarah Longwell. 14 00:01:01,133 --> 00:01:03,233 BRENT, Trump Voter: In Iowa, we have a great governor, 15 00:01:03,233 --> 00:01:06,466 we have great leadership. However, when you look at the country as a whole, 16 00:01:06,466 --> 00:01:11,000 it just seems like everybody has said. The country's just going down the tubes. 17 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,366 RON, Republican Voter: I agree with all the different 18 00:01:15,433 --> 00:01:19,400 economics and all that, but we are so polarized that we can't come to common ground. 19 00:01:22,133 --> 00:01:24,500 MATT, Republican Voter: It almost feels a little bit like a civil war. 20 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:27,533 JUDY WOODRUFF: Following the panels, I sat down with Longwell, 21 00:01:27,533 --> 00:01:32,533 who conducts focus groups with both Republicans and Democrats, to talk through what we heard. 22 00:01:34,533 --> 00:01:37,166 SARAH LONGWELL, Longwell Partners: Mainly, the things that you hear -- and I hear this all 23 00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:40,533 the time from Republicans -- is they really feel like the country is going in the wrong direction. 24 00:01:40,533 --> 00:01:45,000 They want a Republican back in power very badly. 25 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,566 JUDY WOODRUFF: In terms of these Republican voters and their view 26 00:01:49,566 --> 00:01:54,066 of how divided the country is, what came across to you the most about that? 27 00:01:54,066 --> 00:01:57,800 SARAH LONGWELL: Well, everybody does think we're divided. That is clear 28 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,000 in the focus groups we did tonight and in the focus groups I do all the time. 29 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,900 People are -- they talk about things like a national divorce 30 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:06,633 or a civil war. They feel like we're at each other's throats. 31 00:02:06,633 --> 00:02:10,366 How many of you think we're very divided? Raise your hands if you think we're an 32 00:02:10,366 --> 00:02:14,966 extremely divided country. Whose fault do you think it is that we're so divided? 33 00:02:14,966 --> 00:02:16,400 WOMAN: The media. 34 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:17,400 SOPHIA, Republican Voter: The media, for sure. 35 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:18,866 WOMAN: Yes. (CROSSTALK) 36 00:02:18,866 --> 00:02:20,900 WOMAN: And the politicians. WOMAN: The politicians. 37 00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:21,733 SOPHIA: And they perpetuate the hate. I mean, they do it on purpose. They have an agenda, 38 00:02:23,766 --> 00:02:27,233 and it is to divide. And that's what they seek and that's what they're doing. 39 00:02:27,233 --> 00:02:29,333 WOMAN: That's how they get ratings. That's how they get money. 40 00:02:29,333 --> 00:02:31,633 SOPHIA: Exactly, because that's where the money is. 41 00:02:31,633 --> 00:02:35,566 SARAH LONGWELL: And I'm curious, where are you getting your information? Like, 42 00:02:35,566 --> 00:02:38,233 where are you -- what are you watching? What are you reading? What are you listening to? 43 00:02:38,233 --> 00:02:42,633 SONYA, Republican Voter: I watch BlazeTV and FOX News, and I have 44 00:02:44,566 --> 00:02:48,733 TRUTH Social. And I'm all over Twitter. And I watch Channel 13, NBC, all the time. 45 00:02:51,766 --> 00:02:52,966 SARAH LONGWELL: News junkie. 46 00:02:52,966 --> 00:02:55,033 SONYA: I like to know what's going on. 47 00:02:55,033 --> 00:02:58,766 PETER, Republican Voter: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton took over Rush Limbaugh's 48 00:02:58,766 --> 00:03:03,466 show. They are good. I mean, these guys, they look into things, they know things. 49 00:03:03,466 --> 00:03:05,466 Sean Hannity is really good also. 50 00:03:05,466 --> 00:03:09,166 RON: I think I'm smart enough to understand when I'm being manipulated, 51 00:03:09,166 --> 00:03:13,366 all right? So, all I have to say is, I read everything. I listen to everything, 52 00:03:13,366 --> 00:03:18,366 and then, what goes in, what goes out, and then I just make up my own decision. 53 00:03:19,866 --> 00:03:23,400 KEVEN, Republican Voter: I'm going to blame the media and also 54 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,400 social media. I think back like 10 years ago, 15 years ago, we didn't -- it didn't 55 00:03:30,366 --> 00:03:34,200 seem so divided. And it's driven me to seek out different news sources now to get my news, 56 00:03:35,666 --> 00:03:39,000 so I can compare, like Real America's Voice and Newsmax. 57 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,033 (CROSSTALK) SARAH LONGWELL: What about you, Mary? 58 00:03:41,033 --> 00:03:43,033 MARY, Republican Voter: So, I was -- I agree with what you were saying. 59 00:03:43,033 --> 00:03:46,800 So social media is a huge thing, in my opinion, because you don't have a personal 60 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,800 relationship with the people mostly online. Or like what I would say to you right now 61 00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:55,833 in person would be completely different than what I might way on social media. 62 00:03:55,833 --> 00:04:00,433 SARAH LONGWELL: So it sounds like you guys blame the media, social media for the division. 63 00:04:00,433 --> 00:04:02,633 How do you feel about Democrats in general? 64 00:04:02,633 --> 00:04:07,500 MARY: Generally, any time that there's a fight between two people, there's never 65 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:11,033 usually one side that's like 100 percent right. It's always somewhere in the middle. 66 00:04:11,033 --> 00:04:15,700 And so I'm not ever going to say like, this side's completely right and this side's completely wrong. 67 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:17,900 SARAH LONGWELL: Do you guys have friends and family who are Democrats? 68 00:04:17,900 --> 00:04:18,866 MAN: Oh, yes. 69 00:04:18,866 --> 00:04:19,833 WOMAN: Yes. MAN: Yes. 70 00:04:19,833 --> 00:04:21,333 (CROSSTALK) MAN: Yes. 71 00:04:21,333 --> 00:04:23,333 SARAH LONGWELL: And how does that -- how do you do 72 00:04:23,333 --> 00:04:26,500 with that? Is it tense? Can you talk to each other? Is it -- how is it? 73 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:31,500 KEVEN: Recently spent some time with some relatives that are Democrat, and you really can't 74 00:04:33,533 --> 00:04:37,100 talk about Trump or Republicans in that house. I mean, it's just you know tread lightly there. 75 00:04:40,033 --> 00:04:43,833 DANIELLE, Republican Voter: My closest inner circle is mostly like-minded. 76 00:04:43,833 --> 00:04:46,666 They vote Republican or pretty conservative. 77 00:04:46,666 --> 00:04:50,866 But, outside of that, I try to avoid conversations, 78 00:04:50,866 --> 00:04:54,100 because they're just never productive. No one's changing anyone's mind. 79 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:57,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: I did hear them say that they blame the media. 80 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,600 I also heard them say that they were reluctant to bring up their views with people who disagree with 81 00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:09,900 them politically, for fear that they would be criticized, they would be called out. 82 00:05:11,333 --> 00:05:13,233 SARAH LONGWELL: Yes, I do hear this all the time, 83 00:05:13,233 --> 00:05:17,833 people feeling like they can't talk about their support for President Trump or 84 00:05:19,466 --> 00:05:22,366 can't say that they're a Republican without fear of being shouted down. 85 00:05:22,366 --> 00:05:27,366 I think that both parties, members of both parties, sort of feel like it's 86 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,033 really hot out there, and when you sort of wear your politics on your sleeve, 87 00:05:33,033 --> 00:05:37,833 that it's inviting a kind of combative experience. And I think they feel like a 88 00:05:37,833 --> 00:05:42,833 real difference from how people used to be able to sort of agree to disagree maybe 10 15 years ago. 89 00:05:43,633 --> 00:05:45,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes. 90 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,100 SARAH LONGWELL: And now they feel like it gets really personal really fast. 91 00:05:47,100 --> 00:05:49,000 JUDY WOODRUFF: Another key division was over questions 92 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,600 of faith and what it means for people's politics. 93 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,900 SARAH LONGWELL: Do you believe that it's possible to be very liberal, 94 00:05:55,900 --> 00:05:58,966 very progressive, but also be of deep Christian faith? 95 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,966 MAN: No. 96 00:06:01,966 --> 00:06:03,566 SOPHIA: No. No. 97 00:06:03,566 --> 00:06:05,866 SARAH LONGWELL: Tell me more. Go ahead. 98 00:06:05,866 --> 00:06:10,866 SOPHIA: You can't. Life is, well, very important. And if you're a liberal, 99 00:06:12,866 --> 00:06:16,366 then you are pro-choice, and then you believe that it's OK to kill a baby. 100 00:06:16,366 --> 00:06:21,366 And I don't believe that you can believe that and be a real Christian. 101 00:06:22,533 --> 00:06:23,700 SARAH LONGWELL: What do you think? 102 00:06:26,133 --> 00:06:28,800 AMANDA, Republican Voter: Technically, I guess you could be, but that would mean you're not, 103 00:06:30,433 --> 00:06:34,466 I don't know, allowing God's love to be in you as much and stuff. 104 00:06:34,466 --> 00:06:35,100 RAMONA, Republican Voter: So, 105 00:06:37,633 --> 00:06:41,333 I don't think that the Democrats -- and I hate to say it like that. I hate to segregate the party. 106 00:06:45,766 --> 00:06:50,766 They have too many, yes, but what if? Yes, but what if I don't feel like a girl? 107 00:06:53,933 --> 00:06:58,933 So, whatever, God -- so, God made me a boy, but I don't feel like a boy, and so 108 00:07:01,033 --> 00:07:04,033 I'm going to change that. It's just messing with creation. It's just messing with the absolute. 109 00:07:08,566 --> 00:07:13,566 So, when Joe Biden -- I know he's a Catholic. Do you think that he's not Catholic? 110 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,633 PETER: I mean, you just -- in your original question, God is more of a God of just love. 111 00:07:21,633 --> 00:07:25,700 He's a God of right and wrong. He's a God of truth. He's a God of righteousness. 112 00:07:27,766 --> 00:07:32,000 I mean, you can't be liberal and be far left on beliefs and then say, oh, I'm a Christian. Well, 113 00:07:36,466 --> 00:07:39,833 you can say it. That's the -- that's the worst thing. People do say it. 114 00:07:39,833 --> 00:07:44,833 JUDY WOODRUFF: There were strong views expressed about whether it's possible to be a Democrat, 115 00:07:47,033 --> 00:07:51,166 to be liberal, and have a strong Christian faith. It's almost a barrier. 116 00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:54,333 SARAH LONGWELL: Yes, people can be really paradoxical. They can sort of 117 00:07:54,333 --> 00:07:59,266 express one thing in thinking about it one way and then express sort of 118 00:07:59,266 --> 00:08:02,633 the complete opposite if they're thinking about something else in a different frame. 119 00:08:02,633 --> 00:08:07,133 You could hear on one hand people saying, well, I'd really like us to get along more, and 120 00:08:08,766 --> 00:08:11,333 I want us to have shared values and have these good conversations. And 121 00:08:11,333 --> 00:08:15,400 then you would also hear them say, but I don't think that you can be a 122 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,533 real Christian and be a progressive. They didn't think those things were compatible. 123 00:08:19,533 --> 00:08:21,900 JUDY WOODRUFF: When it came to the idea of 124 00:08:21,900 --> 00:08:26,666 their children marrying someone of the opposite party, feelings were mixed. 125 00:08:26,666 --> 00:08:31,600 SARAH LONGWELL: Would any of you or all of you be OK if your child married a Democrat? 126 00:08:33,066 --> 00:08:37,900 RAMONA: My child did marry a Democrat, a Democrat lawyer. 127 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:40,833 (LAUGHTER) RAMONA: It didn't go well. 128 00:08:40,833 --> 00:08:44,133 SARAH LONGWELL: Is it still not going well? 129 00:08:44,133 --> 00:08:46,000 RAMONA: No. We are estranged. 130 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,466 SARAH LONGWELL: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. 131 00:08:47,466 --> 00:08:47,966 RAMONA: Yes. Yes. 132 00:08:49,966 --> 00:08:54,500 BRENT: My daughters are both very liberal, which pains me, but I support them and their 133 00:08:56,633 --> 00:09:00,400 beliefs and try to have conversations with them about what I believe and why I believe that way. 134 00:09:02,466 --> 00:09:06,800 And so -- but I don't try to change them. I just let them know how I believe and why I 135 00:09:08,866 --> 00:09:11,766 believe that way. But if they choose to marry a Democrat, I will support them 100 percent. 136 00:09:11,766 --> 00:09:14,500 BRIAN, Republican Voter: And that, in itself, is the root issue. 137 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:16,900 JUDY WOODRUFF: And there was even some pushback 138 00:09:16,900 --> 00:09:20,933 to our framing of some of these questions along partisan lines. 139 00:09:20,933 --> 00:09:23,866 BRIAN: We're all made in the image of God. We're all valued 140 00:09:26,366 --> 00:09:29,700 by the creator. Why are we dividing Democrat and Republican? Like, my mom's a liberal Democrat. 141 00:09:31,666 --> 00:09:35,833 And I work in something completely different, and we have the most loving relationship. 142 00:09:38,266 --> 00:09:42,533 It's because I don't identify by our relationship based on Democrat, Republican. 143 00:09:42,533 --> 00:09:44,033 SARAH LONGWELL: Yes. 144 00:09:44,033 --> 00:09:46,100 BRIAN: And I think that's the problem in the country. 145 00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:48,533 SARAH LONGWELL: Yes. 146 00:09:48,533 --> 00:09:51,800 One of the things about doing the focus groups across the political spectrum every week now for 147 00:09:53,866 --> 00:09:56,900 years is, oftentimes, Americans are closer on a number of things than you might think, and people 148 00:09:58,933 --> 00:10:02,400 tend to overestimate how different the other side is from them or at how mad they would be. 149 00:10:04,366 --> 00:10:09,300 And some of this comes down to the fact that we are now geographically very segregated as 150 00:10:11,266 --> 00:10:14,633 a country. We are -- tend to have bluer cities and redder sort of rural areas. 151 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,700 JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes. 152 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:19,700 SARAH LONGWELL: And so the less people talk to each other, the less they have 153 00:10:19,700 --> 00:10:21,933 a really good frame of reference for how somebody might actually think. 154 00:10:21,933 --> 00:10:26,933 Oftentimes, people are a little more tolerant, and they want us to get along. Like, they express 155 00:10:29,566 --> 00:10:34,566 the fact that they would -- they sort of lament being this divided, and they talk in terms of 156 00:10:36,266 --> 00:10:39,433 wanting America to be a place where you can talk about your disagreements 157 00:10:39,433 --> 00:10:42,266 and not feel like it's going to be so fraught. 158 00:10:42,266 --> 00:10:47,000 JUDY WOODRUFF: And so a mixed picture from these Trump voters in Iowa. 159 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,966 Some wish for less division and blame the news media, especially social media. And 160 00:10:54,033 --> 00:10:58,200 yet they have strong views about Democrats, are divided on having one in the family, 161 00:11:00,166 --> 00:11:03,800 and question if progressive politics and Christianity can coexist. 162 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,500 For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Judy Woodruff in Johnston, Iowa.