- [Voice Over] This
program was made possible

by contributions to your PBS
station

from viewers like you, thank
you.

- This is now a standard

on all the interviews the
moving sideways camera.

- Yeah.
- But I always find it odd

to cut to someone who's not
talking,

who'd be talking into camera.

- But you know, you've always
struggled.

Remember when you
struggled with the talkies,

when the talkies given you were
always,

- I had to work on my voice
(mumbles).

- Then don't keep looking at
him remember we're being taped.

- Argh, just relax.

- Okay.

(bright upbeat music)

- Hi everyone, this is Beyond
The Canvas.

From PBS News Hour, I'm
Amna Nawaz.

In this episode, we'll meet
masters

of the art of movie-making,
Oscar winners and nominees.

You'll hear from comedy icon,
Steve Martin and Martin Short,

costume designer, Ruth Carter,

documentarians, Jimmy
Chin and Chai Vasarhelyi

and legendary actress, Rita
Moreno.

On this episode, you'll meet the
people

in front of the camera and
behind it.

Comedian Steve Martin knows all
too well

the highs and lows of the
Oscars.

He's hosted three times

and picked up an honorary award
in 2013.

His enduring legacy in Hollywood

is matched by his lifelong
friendship

with fellow comedian Martin
Short.

They recently teamed up for
a Netflix special called,

Now You See Them, Soon You
Won't.

My colleague, Steve
Goldbloom sat down with them

for this special edition
of brief, but spectacular.

- It's hard to make a
career in show business,

possibly even harder to sustain
a career in show business.

Did you ever think that you
would be relevant for this long?

- I guess he's talking to me.

(Laughing)

- Lemme just say Steve,
what an honor it is,

for me to be standing next
to a man who is a novelist,

a playwright, a musician, a
composer,

and a legendary comedian.

- And let me say, what
an honor it is for me

to be standing next to the man

who is standing next to that
man.

(audience laughing)

- Seeing you work together,

it feels like it commands
the attention the same way

like an Oscar's monologue
commands attention.

And then you slow things down
and you become reflective

and you're talking
about each other's work.

Tell me about the design of
your special in your tour.

- This was a real moment for
both of us,

when we were totally rehearsed,

we'd done the show a hundred
times,

everything was just in its
beautiful little comedic place.

- You know, it was a work in
progress as we developed it...

- And still is.

- I mean, there would be times
we'd think,

jeez, should we cut the chat?

It's a chat slow it down
and someone else to say,

"No, no, no, that's like
having dinner with you guys."

- The banjo that helps slow
things down a little bit.

- Yeah, lemme get it.

- No, no, no, no, he
just mentioned it.

Just 'cause you mentioned a
banjo doesn't mean (mumbles).

- I gotta back of the apartment.

- No, no, no.

- Steve what is your
relationship to the banjo,

Martin what is your
relationship to Steve's banjo?

- I dated Steve's banjo for many
years.

- I started playing in the
sixties.

I've been playing for 55 years.

I know I should be better.

You know, we're in show
business,

but I have another life as a
musician.

You have a whole other set of
friends

that, you know, kind of levels
you out?

It's really nice.

That's why you're unleveled.

- Well, in the show that I saw
last year,

it seems like there's an honest
mistake.

Steve you say Greenville
Martin, you say Greenville,

and you say, you tell me Steve,

if you were having a stroke,
wouldn't you?

- Yeah.

- And it looked like,
is that a real mistake?

Are there real mistakes?

- [Steve And Short] No, no,
no mistake (murmurs) yeah.

- We will never
intentionally make a mistake.

- Yeah.

- Sometimes we, 'cause that
looks phony

I think the audience smells it.

But if something happens, we
exploit it.

- In your work together,
lefthanded compliments

play a big role, and you
talk about a lot of them.

What are some of your favorites?

- One of the great things about
touring around the country

with Marty Short, no paparazzi.

- Ah, this is good.

- We are not, (mumbles)

- Thank you.

- The crew's been instructed not
to laugh.

- It's just like our audiences,
that must be what happens.

- There is a Martin Short on
Twitter,

but it's a nutritionist in
London.

- Really?

- [Goldbloom] You're not on
Twitter.

- No, I'm not.

- Okay, Steve you're very good
at Twitter?

- I stopped, I thought
it was too dangerous.

- Just that you might say
something

that would offend people.

- You can say the most innocuous
thing

and suddenly you're in the news.

- I feel this is unanimous.

You two are the greatest
talk show guests in history.

In fact, Martin, you were
considered the greatest

by a magazine...
- No.

- I mean, not that it's a
competition,

but I believe (mumbles)
- No, its not a competition.

But when that came out in the
New Yorker, June 17th, 2017,

of course, no one was happier
than me.

And I had to deal with it.

Can you describe the
moment when you first met?

- I went to Steve's house

to pick up a script for Three
Amigos.

I couldn't believe how great
and beautiful this house was,

a Picasso here and a Bacon
there.

And I said to Steve, how
did you get this rich,

'cause I've seen your work?

You know what you said?

- I said, could you get
this script to Marty Short?

(laughing)

- This is a special question for
Martin.

Is there a moment when you
recognized the genius of Steve?

And of course, this question is
special

because it was submitted by
Steve.

(laughing)

- I met Steve in 1985, 10 years
after...

- By the way I object
to the phrase genius.

I don't agree with that.

I can't just sit here,
but anyway, go ahead.

- And by the way, you're not
alone.

- Yeah.

- I think it kind of
takes a genius to be open

to the people around him that
can make them even better.

The whole package is a genius.

- I actually remember a moment.

I can't identify the year,

but we were gonna look at his
special.

It was so extreme, and I
thought,

"Wow, you are really unafraid."

And I remember that, I remember
thinking this is really bizarre,

I've got to respect this guy
more.

If you could add a third wheel
to your act

that you haven't worked
with, who would it be?

- For box office I'd say Bieber.

(laughing)

- I'd say Jerry Seinfeld is
too good, so we don't want him.

- Yeah, yeah.
- Yeah.

- [Martin] John Mulaney
maybe, as a younger voice.

- He doesn't need us.

- No, he doesn't need us.

- Hi, I'm Steve Martin.

- And I'm Martin Short.

- And this is our brief,
but spectacular take on...

- Our fabulously popular
and undeserved success.

You know, Steve of all the
people

that I have a fake show
business relationship with,

I feel fake closest to you.

- Aw, buddy.

(audience laughing)

- It's clear that is a
friendship

that will keep us laughing
for years to come.

Now, when we think of the
Oscars,

we usually think of actors and
directors.

But there are so many elements

that go into the making of a
movie.

Black Panther, which was widely
praised for its messages,

its vision and its style,

certainly drives that point
home.

Costume designer, Ruth Carter

is largely responsible for the
film's look.

NewsHour's Jeffrey Brown met up
with her

on the Eve of her Oscar win back
in 2019.

(drums thumping)

- [Brown] By now it's well
established.

Black Panther has been both a
box office

blockbuster and
historically groundbreaking.

(air whooshing)

- Ooh, the entire suit

fits within the teeth of the
necklace.

- [Brown] And more than half
a century since Marvel Comics

first introduced the fictional
African nation of Wakanda,

the film featured a new look,

that has itself become
a cultural phenomenon.

Ruth E. Carter not only
helped bring to life

the latest iteration of
the Black Panther suit,

she also designed some
1500 costumes for the film.

The goal she says was to
make fantasy familiar.

- We have to really base it on
real life

in order for people to believe
it.

It's not a place that we
can make so completely

a fantasy that, it
feels like it's a sci-fi

or it's a fantastical place
that no one could go to.

We base it on so many rooted
ideas and cultural things

that people feel like they
can actually buy a ticket

and fly to Wakanda (laughing).

- [Brown] To that end, Carter
researched

and found inspiration in the
real Africa and it's people.

Such as the Dogon of Mali,
the Tuareg in North Africa,

the Himba of Namibia.

The costumes and the film in
general,

also celebrate the
concept of Afrofuturism.

A blending of technology
and futuristic themes

with Black history and culture.

Carter points to the costume of
Ramonda,

King to T'Challa's mother,
as one of her favorites.

Both have intricate crown
and shoulder mantel,

were 3D printed.

- We still really want
to honor what the fans

who believe that Wakanda is.

And in that way,

it stays really rooted
in the superhero realm,

in the comic realm, in the
fantasy realm.

But you know, this was an
opportunity to take, you know,

the Afro future or the
aesthetics of African diaspora

and infuse it into this culture

and bring it to life in that
way.

The process of creating
superhero costumes

is very different than tailoring
a suit.

- Yeah.

- And so that process was new
to me, but as I got into it,

I could see that there were lots
of things

where I could implement
my ideas and my art.

But it's very intimidating at
first.

- Intimidating until you got
over it.

- Till you get over it.

- [Brown] Ruth Carter grew up
in Springfield, Massachusetts

in an artistic household.

She was introduced to drama
through after school programs,

and studied theater, arts
and design in college.

Now 58, her big break into
Hollywood

came through Spike Lee,

with whom she's worked on many
films, including Malcolm X,

which brought the first of her
now three Oscar nominations.

At the time, she was the
first African American

to receive a nomination
for costume design.

Among her many other films,
Steven Spielberg's Amistad,

Ava DuVernay's Selma and
Lee Daniels's The Butler.

- This is what Oprah's, and
then this was Cecil Gaines

who was played by Forest
Whitaker, who was the Butler.

- [Brown] Some of her creations

are still housed at the
Western costume company.

A massive shop and
warehouse in North Hollywood

where we met and talked.

I'm not sure that many
people myself included

understand your job, costume
designer.

- Yeah.
- How do you define it?

- A costume designer is a
storyteller.

She tells or he tells
stories through wearable art.

And it's not only just like
buying a shirt and a jacket

or creating something original,

it's also giving it a
little bit more of a story.

It's just not 2D.

A costume designer's job does
not end

with a photograph or a sketch.

There is that part that
makes it come alive.

And that's molding and
shaping and creating

a character composition, color
palette.

All of those things come into
play.

- This is not a field,
this is not an industry

that's been very inclusive...

- Right.
- Historically.

- Yeah.

- Why is that?

What did that mean for you
coming up and finding your way?

- I guess as I entered
Hollywood,

I didn't see a very many people
like me,

even though I looked and
researched if there were,

and there was maybe one doing
television,

there was another person
who was supervising,

but not really in a design
capacity.

And I was really firm

that I wanted to be a costume
designer

once I landed in Hollywood.

- [Brown] Beyond the individual
films,

Carter says she's felt a larger
mission,

to help create an authentic
portrait of African Americans.

- People think I got into this
industry

because I like, you
know, fashion and Dior,

but it was really like,
you know, James Baldwin

and Nikki Giovanni and Sonia
Sanchez

that told these rich stories

that really made me want
to get into theater,

and what made me want
to be a part of this.

And I found that costume design
was a way

where I could be an artist
and a storyteller, you know,

and contribute to a medium

that I felt had a great
voice.

- So what is the Oscar
nomination mean for you?

- I've been reflecting
on that quite a bit.

It means that I'm an example
to a lot of young girls

who, wow, I'm getting choked up,
wow.

You know, a lot of
young girls who like me,

want this for themselves, this
profession,

wanna get into it and really
kind of don't know how,

but are maybe forging their own
way.

I feel like I represent like
that hope

that they can go to the highest
level.

- And she certainly does.

Like Carter filmmakers, Jimmy
Chin,

and Chai Vasarhelyi climb to new
heights,

both figuratively and literally.

Jimmy Chin is a world
class mountain climber

and adventure photographer.

And Chai Vasarhelyi is
a documentary filmmaker,

with a string of awards for
projects shot around the world.

The pair turned their
cameras on a 3000 foot high

slab of granite in Yosemite
National Park,

known as El Capitan or El Cap
for short.

Their film, Free Solo about
climber Alex Honnold's quest

to climb El Cap with no
ropes, won them an Oscar.

My colleague, Steve Goldbloom

spoke to the married
documentarians

about capturing someone's story
in a life or death moment.

- In journalism and photography
as well,

you hope to kind of disappear.

You're really trying to capture
the moments as they happen

and trying not to influence a
moment.

- It gets to like the
existential ethical question

at the heart of the film,

which is in the act of
filming by filming him.

Are we in some way gonna
'cause him to fall?

Is he more likely to fall if
we're filming?

- We were really focused on the
moment

and doing exactly what
we were supposed to do.

And I told the crew that
the day before I was like,

don't get distracted thinking
about Alex.

You stay focused on exactly
what you're doing, no mistakes.

- I think that you had
to wrestle with that

before we even turned on the
camera for the first time.

- I got the sense that
Alex wanted to be filmed,

but he didn't want to feel
filmed.

- I think he got the concept

of actually free soloing
El Cap was film worthy.

And that idea of like
someone doing justice

to this incredible athletic
feat actually capturing it

in a way that could
live on for posterity...

- [Goldbloom] Right.

- Was something that was
very appealing to him.

The actual experience of what
that was going to entail,

I think was more of a
discovery process for him.

- Being a professional climber

and having worked on both
sides of the lens,

I'm quite sensitive to what it
feels like

when a camera's introduced to a
situation

and that sensitivity to it.

You know, we hoped to apply
in how we filmed with him

to make it as easy and
non-intrusive as possible.

- The remote, cameras

because we want to stay
out of Alex's line of sight

when he is doing it.

- What risk does the crew take
on?

- We really tried to mitigate
the risk

on the very front end, by
the team that we built.

You know, the first criteria
to be on the high angle team

was that you had to be an
elite professional climber.

The second criteria is they had
to be

amazing cinematographers as
well.

So there's not a very
big pool to pull from.

I needed people who could
climb El Cap casually in a day.

And there aren't that many
people who can do that.

We really spent two years on the
wall.

As Alex was practicing his
climb,

we were practicing how
we were gonna shoot it.

- We actually had zero margin
for error.

The risks were so high and so
they had to just be perfect.

Did you ever get to a point
where you could justify

the worst case scenario being
okay,

filming what would be
someone's tragic death?

It came down to a few things.

One was Alex thought more

about his own mortality
than mostly anyone.

And he chooses to do this with
his life.

Like he wants to live
every day with intention.

And did we believe in that, we
did.

And then secondly, did we trust
Alex,

and did we trust his decision
making?

As you see in the film,
he turns around once.

So, and that was actually
a very good day for us,

because we understood we
made the right decision

to trust his decision making.

And then the third was
like, did we trust ourselves

to treat our subject with
respect at all times?

We did not think he was gonna
fall

or else we wouldn't have been
there.

But people ask us this question
a lot,

and I would say probably the
film is gonna be the same film.

It wasn't gonna be redone
saying,

look how horrible this
is, what this guy does.

It was always about honoring who
Alex is.

- Relationships anchor the
movie, and there's a moment

where Alex realizes that human
connection

comes with the obligation
to maximize lifespan.

Is there a moment where you
recognize

this snippet of dialogue and
questioned whether you could,

you should continue making the
movie?

- Alex was a kid who began free
soloing

because it was less scary
to go out without a rope

and without a partner than
to speak to another person.

But he also always kind of had
the vision

and kind of craved connection.

So he saw that other people ate
vegetables

and it seemed to be good for
them.

So he taught himself how to eat
veggies like he wasn't hugged,

but he saw that other people
hug.

So he tried to learn how to hug.

We could never have
anticipated his meeting Sanni.

You know, she is emotionally
intelligent,

she is self confident
not to push back on him,

and say this makes me
uncomfortable,

but I'm gonna try to
love you for who you are.

And that sentence is like
a revelation for Alex.

- One of the, kind of core
ideas of the film as well,

whether, you know, it's not
necessarily how long you live.

It's like the quality of life
he's saying.

I thought about my mortality,

it's important for me to pursue
what I am passionate about

and that I love deeply
in this moment, you know,

that's really important to me
and live with great intention.

- You've said there wasn't a
day in the two years of filming

that you didn't think about him
falling.

- Mmh.
- Yeah.

I've definitely said that.

- Can you describe what it feels
like

to walk around with that?

- I would wake up, I could feel
the burden

and then I would remember, I'd
be like, what am I feeling?

And then I would think about
what it was

that I was weighing on me.

And my mind would go to
the worst case scenario.

- I think everybody on the
team carried a certain weight,

but that was kind of the point.

Like there's also a commitment
that came with that weight.

We'd trusted Alex and
believed in what he was doing.

- There's a breathtaking
moment in the movie

where Alex does a karate kick

to a foothold at 3000 feet on El
Cap.

And it's a move that he
had failed several times

when he was using ropes.

Can you describe coming to that
pivotal moment in the movie?

My heart was in my throat,
and time stood still,

and then he made it.

And it just was this like, I
don't know, kind of such pride

came like over me and like
understanding that Alex

must've been so happy in that
moment, it was beautiful.

And then you say like,
okay, it's not done yet.

Okay, be nervous again.

- I was hanging on the
wall around the corner.

So I just knew that
within this kind of 10,

15 minute timeframe that
he was in that spot,

the thing for me on that
moment while we were filming

was just that we had
so much to think about

and choreograph and so
many things to think about

in terms of the climbing,

in terms of like not making
a mistake climbing as well,

in a way that was really
helpful because like,

you'd start thinking about it

and you'd be like, okay, wait,
okay.

Cameras, batteries, all set
media cards,

everything's audio is running.

Once he passes me,

I'm gonna have the rope thrown
down to me.

And then I'm gonna jug
out this way, you know,

I mean, you just keep going
through your checklist.

I didn't have that much time to
like,

let my gut come up into my
chest.

But I was very emotional
when he made it to the top.

And I got to the top, the
moment after he's halved out.

It was just this huge emotional
welling,

because I'd only allowed myself
to think about the execution

up to the point that he tapped
out.

I didn't think about what,
I didn't let myself indulge

and what it would feel
like for him to do it,

and to feel like the crew
had accomplished everything

that we wanted to have it in the
can.

And that moment was really
incredible.

(bright upbeat music)

- Like Chin and Vasarhelyi,
actress and singer Rita Moreno

has worked her way to the top.

She fought typecasting
and industry pressure,

to become the first Latina EGOT.

That's a winner of an Emmy,
Grammy, Oscar and a Tony.

Moreno gives her brief,
but spectacular take

on a lifetime in show business.

- Being the house ethnic
was destroying my life

and my sense of myself

because, I had been consigned
to play every dusky maiden

you've ever seen in your life
and movies.

So if I was playing a Hawaiian
girl, I talked like this

and I was playing an Arabian
girl, I still talk like this.

I didn't know.

But I was trying, I was really
trying to improve things.

Nobody gave a damn.

(bright upbeat music)

Moving to Los Angeles, I was
then about, yeah, just 16.

'cause I remember that I went
there

under contract to MGM studios,
the studio of my dreams

because that's where all the
great musicals were made.

Life magazine decided to do
a story about a young actress

in Hollywood in 1954 and I made
the cover.

And I remember that the fellow

who's doing the story on me
said,

"Listen, kid, I just want
you to know if Eisenhower

gets a cold you're off the
cover.

I auditioned for West Side
Story just like everybody else,

and I nearly had a heart attack

because I hadn't danced in
about,

well, I don't know, about 15
years.

I got a friend of mine who
had played Anita on the road

in West Side Story to teach me
some steps,

which she warned me that,

they don't always teach
you the same steps.

And to my astonishment, the
first part of the audition,

the dance director said,

"Okay, let me teach you
these steps from America."

And I went, "Mmh, okay."

And it was the steps that
this girl had taught me.

When I was nominated for the
Oscar,

I was absolutely positive
that Judy Garland would win

for Judgment at Nuremberg.

And then they call my name,
and I was absolutely poleaxed.

And I remember walking down to
the stage

and saying to myself, "Don't
run.

"It's not dignified."

I got up there, and I said
the following, unbelievable.

(audience clapping)

I can't believe it!

(audience laughing)

Good lord!

I leave you with that.

Oh my God, the things I could
have said it just killed me.

There's something about sex

that always brings out the funny
in me.

I think it's because we make

such fools of ourselves over it.

You know, get laid,

oh my god, people will
do just about anything.

I think people get won
over too by a woman's,

you know, kind of sexuality.

And that's what I was trying
to achieve (laughing),

when I sang, Fever with Animal,

the drummer from the Muppets.

♪ Fever when you hold me tight ♪

♪ Fever (drums thumping),
in the ♪ morning ♪

Well, I think it's one of the
funniest things I've ever done.

I really had a hard time, not
laughing.

I've always wanted to sing
and dance all my life,

but there is one song

that absolutely captures
the essence of who I am.

♪ As I approach the
prime of my ♪ life ♪

♪ I find I have the time of my ♪
life ♪

♪ Learning to explore at my ♪
leisure ♪

♪ Every single pleasure ♪

♪ And so I happily can see ♪

♪ This is all I ask ♪

♪ This is all I need ♪

I'm Rita Moreno, and this is my
brief,

but spectacular take on me.

- And that is a beautiful note
to end on.

Like Moreno, all the
artists we've seen today

have shown a deep love and
appreciation for storytelling.

Despite hardships and roadblocks
they stuck to their craft

and achieved greatness along the
way.

Everything you've seen here and
more

is available on our website,
pbs.org/newshour/canvas.

And tune in to the PBS
NewsHour each night

for even more Canvas Arts
and Culture reporting.

While you're there, be sure to
check out

some of the special videos
we've shared just for this show.

And look for our return to PBS
soon.

I'm Amna Nawaz, for all of
us at the PBS NewsHour,

thanks for joining me right
here on Beyond The Canvas.

(bright upbeat music)

- [Voice Over] This
program was made possible

by contributions to your PBS
station from viewers like you.

Thank you.