GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.
I'm Geoff Bennett.
Amna Nawaz is away.
On the "NewsHour" tonight: Former President Trump and 18 others are indicted in Georgia for attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.
President Biden takes his economic message on the road, as questions linger about his reelection campaign.
And life in Afghanistan remains dire amid firm Taliban control and major crises two years after the fall of the American-backed government.
MRS. AZIZ, Makeup Artist (through translator): We are jobless.
Possibly, we might flee, because there is no work, no income for me in this country.
My children are hungry.
(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Good, evening and welcome to the "NewsHour."
For the fourth time this year, former President Donald Trump is defendant Donald Trump.
Late yesterday, a grand jury in Georgia charged Mr. Trump and 18 others and a far-reaching racketeering case related to efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.
Lisa Desjardins starts our coverage.
LISA DESJARDINS: Today on social media, Donald Trump lashing out, calling the latest indictment a witch-hunt and promising to release his own report alleging election fraud next week... SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): They're trying to take Donald Trump down.
LISA DESJARDINS: ... while his Republican allies rally to his defense.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): This is disgraceful, it is wrong, and it is an abuse of power by angry Democrats.
LISA DESJARDINS: House Speaker Kevin McCarthy called the chargers a desperate sham, saying: "The radical DA in Georgia is following Biden's lead."
The latest charges were voted on by a grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia, late yesterday and announced by district attorney Fani Willis, who led the two-and-a-half year investigation into Trump and the 2020 election.
FANI WILLIS (D), Fulton County, Georgia, District Attorney: The indictment alleges that, rather than by abide by Georgia's legal process for election challenges, the defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering enterprise to overturn Georgia's presidential election result.
LISA DESJARDINS: The Georgia indictment charges Trump and 18 others with a combined 41 counts in a wide-ranging case, among them, violation of the Georgia Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization, or RICO, Act, often used to prosecute organized crime, soliciting a violation of oath by a public officer, filing false documents, and making false statements.
Willis launched the investigation in February 2021,a few weeks after audiotape revealed Trump knew he was short of votes in the state, but asked Georgia's secretary of state to change the outcome anyway.
DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States: All I want to do is this.
I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have.
LISA DESJARDINS: The allegations expanded to a multipronged criminal conspiracy, including false claims of election fraud, a scheme to appoint fake electors, tampering with voting machines and harassment of election workers.
Alongside Trump, the indictment charges several co-defendants from his inner circle, lawyers Rudy Giuliani Sidney Powell and John Eastman, his former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, former DOJ official Jeffrey Clark, and other Georgia Republican officials.
This is the fourth indictment of the former president this year, bringing the number of felony charges against him to 91.
The Georgia case into election interference overlaps with federal charges brought by special counsel Jack Smith earlier this month, but the state charges are seen by legal experts as significant on their own.
Unlike the DOJ case, Trump could not pardon himself or attempt to shut down the Georgia investigation if he is reelected president next year.
FANI WILLIS: The grand jury issued arrest warrants for those who are charged.
LISA DESJARDINS: In the meantime, all defendants are to surrender by the end of next week for processing and mug shots, including one to be taken of Trump.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Lisa Desjardins.
GEOFF BENNETT: And for more on the indictment and what comes next, we're joined now by Stephen Fowler, who covers politics for Georgia Public Broadcasting, and Gwen Keyes Fleming, who previously served as district attorney in DeKalb County, Georgia.
Thank you both for being with us.
And, Gwen, this sweeping indictment captures the breathtaking number of ways in which Donald Trump and his associates allegedly tried to overturn the election results.
And, as we heard in Lisa's reporting, they are charged with engaging in a criminal enterprise under a Georgia racketeering law.
This RICO law was initially designed to prosecute mob bosses.
Help us understand why a RICO charge is an appropriate charge in this case.
GWEN KEYES FLEMING, Former Georgia District Attorney: Certainly.
So, Georgia RICO statute is one of the greatest tools that a prosecutor has to be able to tell the whole story when you have a long list of defendants, each of whom were operating in concert towards some sort of common goal, whether it's maintaining or obtaining a part of an enterprise.
And so, in this case, what the DA has done is identified several predicate acts.
Those are acts or crimes that are listed in the RICO statutes, such as things like false statements, false swearing, influencing witnesses, solicitation to commit forgery.
She only needs to successfully prosecute two of them, but she's listed several.
And then she has added several overt acts that are noncrimes, that are not criminal, but describe the ways in which the various defendants furthered the conspiracy.
And so, by doing so, these 161 enlisted -- or listed acts enables her to tell the whole story of what happened, so that a jury can understand it.
GEOFF BENNETT: Stephen Fowler, one of the lesser known aspects of this alleged conspiracy is the breach of a voting system in rural Coffee County, Georgia, that took place well after the 2020 election.
And we should say these images were taken from surveillance video on January 7, 2021, showing a woman who was posing as a fake elector escorting a team of Trump operatives to the county elections office the same day that voting system had been breached.
Tell us more about what transpired.
STEPHEN FOWLER, Georgia Public Broadcasting: Right.
So, Coffee County, Georgia, is one of 159 counties in Georgia, and it's a reliably Republican county.
So the results were not in question there.
But the woman you mentioned, Cathy Latham, who was the Republican county chairwoman down there and also one of Georgia's alternate electors, who falsely claimed that they were an official elector, was working with the elections supervisor to bring down a team of people to access voting data, and machines and equipment, because they felt that there was evidence in there that the machines were not counting things accurately, that they were manipulated, and they were somehow taking votes away from Donald Trump and giving them to Joe Biden.
None of that is true.
But what happened and what we see in this indictment is, this sweeping act was part of the larger scheme to keep Trump in office, and the data breach violated several parts of Georgia's computer trespass laws, and got the people that actually copied the data and were involved in accessing that data as well.
GEOFF BENNETT: Gwen, how do the special counsel case and this Georgia case intersect and potentially conflict, especially given that some of the 18 co-defendants overlap with the unindicted co-conspirators in Jack Smith's case?
GWEN KEYES FLEMING: So, there actually is no conflict.
The way that our judicial system is set up, you have various federal charges, each that have specific elements of the crimes that need to be charged, and then you have state charges also with their own separate elements.
And so while there may be some similarities in the individuals named, the burdens of proof and the requirements for each element of the crimes listed under the state statutes and under the federal statutes are very different.
And so, very often, you may see cases where a particular stream of conduct could qualify for a federal charge, but it also qualifies for the state charge.
And that's exactly what you see here.
And the district attorney was elected by the citizens and residents of Fulton County to protect them.
So she is going forward with the authority that she has under the Georgia laws.
GEOFF BENNETT: The DA said last night that she intends to try all 19 defendants together, and she hopes to do it within six months.
Is that even possible, given that she's going to have to deal with potentially 19 individual defense attorneys?
GWEN KEYES FLEMING: Well, I think it's early in the process to give that an honest assessment.
Let's see if some of the defendants listed may decide upon looking at evidence either after discovery or after various rulings on motions that they do not want to go to trial.
They may decide that it's more advantageous to take a plea deal.
There may be some rulings that cut against the district attorney, such that perhaps some counts are lost and some defendants are lost.
So it's really early to tell whether all 19 would be sitting at a table, but it's also possible.
Remember, this is a district attorney who has considerable experience handling complex multidefendant RICO cases.
And so, where there's a will, there's a way.
I'm sure the judge will help -- along with the sheriff, help find a suitable arena to be able to do whatever needs to be done with the defendants that are remaining at the time the trial is ready to go.
GEOFF BENNETT: Stephen Fowler, Georgia is a problem for Donald Trump legally, and you could argue politically too.
Brian Kemp, the popular Republican governor there who already defeated a Trump-backed primary challenger, is calling out Donald Trump's election lies.
Here's what he tweeted today: "The 2020 election in Georgia was not stolen.
For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward under oath and prove anything in a court of law.
Our elections in Georgia are secure, accessible and fair and will continue to be as long as I am governor.
The future of our country is at stake in 2024.
And that must be our focus."
Republicans, as you well know, they lost the Georgia Senate run-off.
They lost the state in the last presidential election.
Donald Trump, if he's the Republican nominee, he's going to need Georgia to win back the White House.
How steep a challenge is that politically, given Georgia politics?
STEPHEN FOWLER: Well, sure, Geoff.
Well, the main problem right now is that Donald Trump is facing an uphill battle both in the courts and court of public opinion in Georgia, because, as you mentioned, he narrowly lost the state in 2020.
He proposed a bunch of primary challengers against popular Republicans in Georgia that got blown out of the water.
And then in the key Senate race against with Raphael Warnock running against Herschel Walker, the Trump-backed opponent, Warnock won and Democrats maintained control of the Senate.
So there's already a track record of Georgia voters willing to move on from Donald Trump.
And Brian Kemp is a case in point.
He's been beating the drum: Anybody who focuses on 2024, instead of 2024, is not going to have a good time.
And so with this trial, you have the potential for not just, in Georgia, but other states where Trump and his allies tried to overturn the election, looking at this televised trial of rehashing what happened when Trump tried to overturn the election heading before the 2024 election.
So you might see these other swing states not buying what Trump is selling based on a little bit of PTSD from the last election.
GEOFF BENNETT: Gwen, we have about 20 seconds left.
And I want to ask you about a late-breaking development here where Mark Meadows, the former White House, chief of staff, has filed a request to move this case to federal court.
What are the merits of that request, as you see it?
GWEN KEYES FLEMING: So, as I understand it, that is an argument where you have a former federal official who is attempting to say that their actions were done in accordance with their federal job or their federal role.
And so we were not surprised to see that that motion was filed.
We will wait and see what and if a federal judge decides.
But having looked at the issue very closely, there are no issues of immunity, arguably.
There also is sufficient evidence that these are purely state crimes involving actions that would have been outside that color of law or color of federal responsibility, and, therefore, the case should stay in Fulton state court.
GEOFF BENNETT: Gwen Keyes Fleming and Stephen Fowler, thank you both for your time this evening.
We appreciate it.
GWEN KEYES FLEMING: Thank you.
STEPHEN FOWLER: Thank you.
GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: The property manager at former President Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate pleaded not guilty to four criminal charges in the classified documents case.
Carlos De Oliveira arrived at a federal court in Fort Pierce, Florida.
The special counsel has accused him and Mr. Trump of conspiring to hide security footage from investigators.
The confirmed death toll from the wildfires on Maui has now climbed to 99.
So far, crews have searched about a quarter of the disaster zone in Lahaina.
Officials fear more bodies are among the untouched piles of ash.
Meantime, long lines of cars formed outside Lahaina as residents tried to return home, many contemplating their uncertain futures.
JANNIFER WILLIAMS, Maui Resident: It's our home.
We have lived here 30 years.
Our kids were born here.
It's -- we just don't know the next steps.
PILA TAUFA, Lahaina Native: We're camping it out over here, like, just waiting for them to give us the OK to go back in and help clean up, just do whatever we can.
GEOFF BENNETT: President Biden said he plans to travel to Hawaii to survey the Maui recovery efforts.
While in Milwaukee today, the president assured the island's residents that more help is on the way.
JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: We're working with the state to make sure survivors that have lost their homes have a place to call home until we can rebuild.
We are also surging federal personnel to the state to help the brave firefighters and first responders, many of whom lost their own homes, their properties while they're out busting their neck to save other people.
GEOFF BENNETT: The fires are still blazing on parts of Maui.
Authorities have yet to determine what caused them.
Russian authorities are investigating a massive explosion at a gas station overnight that killed 35 people.
It happened after a fire started in a car repair shop in the southern Dagestan region.
Emergency crews responded quickly to fight the blazes.
The regional governor arrived on the scene to survey damage.
GOV.
SERGEI MALIKOV, Dagestan, Russia (through translator): A tragedy happened tonight.
It's linked to an explosion, the cause and details of which are being determined.
Cisterns at a nearby gas station were detonated.
The site where we are now is the epicenter of the tragedy.
GEOFF BENNETT: It was Russia's deadliest explosion in more than a year.
A criminal investigation is now under way.
Russian missiles battered communities across Ukraine today, killing civilians and damaging infrastructure there.
Ukrainian forces said they intercepted 16 of the 28 missiles.
One of the hardest-hit areas was the western region of Lviv.
Local authorities said nearly 120 residential buildings were damaged, along with a kindergarten playground.
IRYNA TUR, Lviv Resident (through translator): It was very scary.
When we crouched, my whole life past in front of my eyes as one moment.
I thank God that we are alive, because the rocket fell just behind the garage.
GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, there were more signs today that sanctions put in place during the Ukraine war are weakening the Russian economy.
The Russian Central Bank issued a major interest rate hike after the country's currency, the ruble, reached its lowest value since the start of the war.
In Libya, a militia commander was released by a rival faction today after his detention sparked a day of clashes in the capital that killed four people.
Shaky video captured smoke rising over the Tripoli skyline.
The violence trapped residents in their homes and diverted inbound flights.
It was the worst fighting the capital has seen this year.
North Korea is commenting for the first time about an American soldier who entered the country last month.
The government says Travis King admitted to illegally entering its territory while on a civilian tour of the heavily fortified border between North and South Korea.
The North Koreans say he confessed to harboring ill feelings against the U.S. Army and wanted to seek refuge there or a third country.
The U.S. State Department has yet to comment.
The mother of a 6-year-old who shot his teacher in Newport News, Virginia, pleaded guilty to felony child neglect.
The first grader used his mother's handgun to shoot his teacher in a classroom full of students back in January.
His mother, Deja Taylor, was seen leaving court today.
Prosecutors agreed to not seek a sentence longer than six months as part of a plea deal.
And stocks tumbled on Wall Street today, breaking a three-day winning streak.
The Dow Jones industrial average plunged 361 points to close at 34946.
The Nasdaq fell 157 points.
The S&P 500 slipped 52.
Still to come on the "NewsHour": life in Afghanistan remains dire two years after the fall of the U.S.-backed government; the daughters of an American transferred from an Iranian prison discuss his detention; and young climate activists in Montana win a first-of-its-kind legal case.
The Biden administration is barnstorming the country this week to mark the one-year anniversary of their landmark law the Inflation Reduction Act.
Recent indicators of a growing economy are key to that message, which, as Laura Barron-Lopez reports, President Joe Biden took to Milwaukee today.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: On offense and on the road, bringing Bidenomics to voters.
The president is selling his investments in jobs, renewable energy and infrastructure.
JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: I'm not here to declare victory on the economy.
We're not there yet.
We have more work to do.
But we have always had a plan that turning things around, making an America stronger and safer and more competitive, Bidenomics is just another way of saying restoring the American dream.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The new message as Biden ramps up his 2024 reelection campaign follows a string of good economic headlines, unemployment at near record lows, inflation among the lowest of the G7 nations, GDP growth at 2.4 percent last quarter, and recession fears fading on Wall Street.
KAMALA HARRIS, Vice President of the United States: Recall, these fancy people used to say, well, a recession is inevitable.
Now, however, those same people acknowledge that President Biden and I have delivered strong and steady growth for our nation.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: A year ago, soaring gas and grocery prices cast a shadow over the president's agenda.
Now things are different.
LAURA TYSON, Former Director, U.S. National Economic Council: The economy looks very strong.
It looks very strong.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Laura Tyson served as chief economist for President Bill Clinton.
Like many economists, she is increasingly optimistic about the country's trajectory.
LAURA TYSON: The inflation rate has come down a lot.
And the economy has continued to grow enough to keep the unemployment rate down, to keep labor force participation rates up, to generate some real wage growth, to generate strength in the labor market.
So I put all that together and say that's a pretty strong macroeconomy.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Some of that is due to the Federal Reserve, which, under Chairman Jerome Powell, has steadily raised interest rates to cool inflation and operates independently from the administration.
But economists like Tyson also point to the president's push for legislation on manufacturing and cutting costs for Americans.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It's now law.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Like the Inflation Reduction Act, an expansive law designed to boost clean energy projects and lower prescription drug prices, and the bipartisan CHIPS and Science ACT, which the White House says spurred over $166 billion in private sector investment into the semiconductor industry, and helped add 800,000 manufacturing jobs in the U.S. since the president took office.
LAURA TYSON: Manufacturing, construction has significantly increased.
Some of the infrastructure projects are in place, are being done.
Some of the climate investments are starting to be made.
These are things which are going to take some time to affect the economy.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: That's in part why the steady stream of strong market and labor numbers have not helped improve President Biden's standing.
His approval rating is stuck in the low 40s.
Just 20 percent of Americans think the economy is in excellent or in good shape.
And 57 percent say the economy has been weakened by the president's policies.
CORNELL BELCHER, Former Obama Campaign Pollster: Biden has a fantastic story to tell about experience, getting things done and making the economy work for you.
Right now, they're just not connecting the dots back to Biden.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Cornell Belcher is a longtime Democratic strategist.
He said Biden's persistent low approval is not just about Americans' perception of the economy.
CORNELL BELCHER: There's more variables at play than simply the economy.
And a lot of what we're picking up on is, Americans are anxious about a number of different issues.
They're anxious about when the next shoe is going to drop in, and issues about control.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Belcher conducts regular focus groups.
He's found that, from the pandemic to abortion rights and a chaotic and divisive political atmosphere, Americans are racked with uncertainty.
To combat that, he said, the president needs to loudly own the good economic numbers and sell his wins.
CORNELL BELCHER: And I know there's been some hesitation with people in the administration about, OK, people aren't feeling good about the economy, so should we, in fact, lean in and talk about how good the economy is?
I think you're going to see a lot less of that hesitation.
I hope you will see a lot less their hesitation over the next couple of months, because they really do have to sell the economy.
DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States: The Biden economic bust will be replaced with the historic Trump economic boom.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And if President Biden doesn't take the credit, former President Donald Trump, the leading GOP presidential contender, will.
DONALD TRUMP: Anything that's good that's happening with the economy, it's only because they're running on the fumes of what we built.
You understand that.
They're running on the fumes, but those fumes can't last much longer.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Trump is the only president since Herbert Hoover to leave office with fewer jobs in the country than when he started.
And the Biden campaign expressed confidence Bidenomics is working, telling "NewsHour": "We are running an aggressive campaign and will be communicating the choice Americans have in this race between President Biden's experienced leadership, while drawing a contrast with the deeply unpopular and twice-rejected MAGA agenda focused on tax giveaways to the ultra rich."
It's a contrast both campaigns will hammer in the months to come.
For the "PBS NewsHour" I'm Laura Barron-Lopez.
GEOFF BENNETT: Two years ago today, Taliban fighters poured into Afghanistan's capital, Kabul.
The army melted away, and President Ashraf Ghani fled for his life.
The country that the U.S. and NATO spent nearly 20 years fighting to build was suddenly controlled again by the same Taliban whom the U.S. deposed after 9/11.
Nick Schifrin is back from parental leave, and looks back on this anniversary and today's Afghanistan.
NICK SCHIFRIN: After nearly two decades of combat, American sacrifice and more than 100,000 Afghan lives, the Taliban didn't have to fire a shot.
They recaptured Kabul on August 15.
And the multinational, multi-trillion-dollar war ended with chaos.
Tens of thousands of Afghan swarmed Kabul's airport.
Some preferred to cling to a moving plane than live under Taliban rule.
And the last U.S. soldier and general commanding the evacuation left under the cover of darkness.
The top U.S. military official called it strategic defeat.
Today, Taliban police patrol the capital they rule and say violence has largely been silenced.
But so have women.
Last month, a group braved Taliban gunshots to demand change.
Afghan women today are barred from secondary education and most forms of employment.
They're prohibited from working for the U.N. and nongovernmental organizations, and they're blocked for most public spaces.
The U.N. calls it gender-based apartheid.
Most recently, the Taliban ordered beauty salons shut down.
Aziz works in secret to feed her desperate family.
MRS. AZIZ, Makeup Artist (through translator): We are jobless.
Possibly, we might flee, because there is no work, no income for me in this country.
My children are hungry.
NICK SCHIFRIN: The U.N. says 20 million Afghans are hungry and more than two-thirds need aid to survive.
The U.S. is the single largest donor of humanitarian aid.
But it keeps $3.5 billion in foreign reserves frozen and refuses to open an embassy in Kabul, where, today, the Taliban celebrated their prize, a country where even the youngest lives under their version of Islamic law.
Today, the U.N. said that, while the country is much less violent today than before 2021, more than 1,000 civilians have died in bombings and other violence.
For more than the situation in Afghanistan and U.S. policy toward the Taliban, we get two views.
Nader Nadery is former commissioner of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission.
He's now a senior fellow at the Wilson Center, a Washington-based think tank.
And Laurel Miller was former President Obama's special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan.
She's now president and chief executive officer of the Asia Foundation, a nonprofit development organization.
Thanks very much.
Welcome both of you back to the "NewsHour."
LAUREL MILLER, Former State Department Official: Thank you.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Here's the Taliban narrative of Afghanistan today, no significant opposition, no internal divisions, successfully targeting ISIS, and they're fighting corruption and reducing opium.
Nader Nadery, is that an accurate picture of Afghanistan today?
NADER NADERY, Former Senior Adviser to Afghan President: It is, to an extent, an accurate - - but the accuracy of that relates to, there is no political opposition, because it's an religious, authoritarian regime that does not allow any political views to be expressed.
If they express political view, if a citizen expressed different political view, will be ending up in jail, like an activist, Matiullah Wesa, who advocates for education.
(CROSSTALK) NADER NADERY: For four months.
He's still in education.
Other political leaders who have stayed beyond are being under house arrest and not allowed to be to be engaging in political activities.
Violence is low, yes, because Taliban are not blowing up any school or bridges.
That's true also.
They have -- they have eliminated a full-fledged military operation that they were carrying out to create chaos and violence and kill population.
So that's an accurate statement.
On the corruption, yes, that's true that they have reduced corruption at the custom duties, compared to what it was before.
But do not forget to watch on, as an example, the mining sector, what's happening there, the passport department, which one passport is charged $2,000 -- over $2,000 as a bribe.
And there are many other evidence of how corruption goes significantly and deep down.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Laurel Miller, is there also a sense of abandonment and Afghanistan, whether because of two years ago today or ongoing policies?
LAUREL MILLER: Well, I imagine there are some people in Afghanistan who feel that way.
I don't think it's the case that there is wholesale abandonment of Afghanistan.
There's been significant humanitarian aid that's been provided to alleviate the humanitarian crisis there, and the U.S. has been the biggest contributor to humanitarian aid.
That's declining.
And it's not enough to put Afghanistan back on its feet.
But within the context of having fought a 20-year war, and lost that war, the fact that the United States is even to some extent pragmatically engaged with Afghanistan, and that other Western governments are as well, that some countries have reopened embassies there is rather remarkable in historical perspective.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Engagement with Afghanistan, of course, means engagement with the Taliban.
In late July, U.S. officials met with the Taliban and -- quote -- "urged the Taliban to reverse its policies on women."
And, today, Secretary of State Antony Blinken explicitly linked normalization with the Taliban to a change in behavior.
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. Secretary of State: The path to any more normal relationship between the Taliban and other countries will be blocked unless and until the rights of women and girls, among other things, are actually supported.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Nader Nadery, you have argued that pressure on the Taliban, not engagement, is the best way to help Afghans.
Why?
NADER NADERY: Because we have we have seen the Taliban have only known a path of pressure and consistency.
What they learned wrongly from the rest of international community is that they would stay on course on the positions, brutal, even if it is a very brutal position.
They would just stay on it.
However, they believed that any international community would slowly change their course and come to us because, in their view, the United States and the rest of international community need them for whatever reason.
It's a wrong perception and wrong and stunning.
NICK SCHIFRIN: That's how they... NADER NADERY: But that's how they have wrongly learned through the negotiation, the U.S. and them in 2019.
NICK SCHIFRIN: During the Trump administration with Zalmay Khalilzad, yes.
NADER NADERY: Of course, when you look at the level of concession they have received from the United States, that's how they learn that they can stay on course.
And that's what they say in their public statements.
So what Secretary Blinken said is very much encouraging that addresses one key issue that the United States and the rest of international community has left only with one leverage, to make the Taliban to adhere to some of the promises they have made or to brutalize less its -- their own population.
And that is to not recognize them.
But there is one additional, if I may, point.
And that is, the Taliban would only hear and act if the United States goes even further drastically and called for Taliban are not respecting the Doha deal, elements of the Doha deal.
The United States could... NICK SCHIFRIN: Doha deal between the Trump administration and the Taliban, right.
NADER NADERY: The Trump administration and the Taliban.
So, the United States could say, unless they respect it, the Doha deal will be nullified.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Laurel Miller, more pressure?
Does the U.S. have leverage over the Taliban?
LAUREL MILLER: I don't think there's much leverage at all.
In fact, there's a lot less leverage for shaping Taliban behavior now than there was over 20 years of waging war in Afghanistan.
And that didn't effectively shape Taliban behavior, as we see today.
It's -- I think you can see the Taliban having learned the lesson over 20 years that consistency on their part does gain their -- enables them to achieve their objectives.
And they did achieve their objectives.
NICK SCHIFRIN: And, Nader Nadery, it seems that when the supreme leader, Hibatullah, claims that life for Afghan women have has improved under the Taliban, it seems difficult, though, to convince them to change their policies, right?
NADER NADERY: Absolutely, 68 edicts and policies and rulings that systematically restricts women and eliminates their -- any role, social and political and public life, is aimed toward complete control of the woman's life in Afghanistan.
And I very much support the call for recognizing gender apartheid as an international crime, as a crime against humanity.
Our international community's conscience needs to be shaken as it was during the apartheid regime of South Africa.
It's not only the half of the population, the 18 million Afghan women, that are being bought and denied every single fundamental rights.
But it's about the humanity as large, what kind of example we are going to allow to be implemented in a country that has turned to a big present against women.
NICK SCHIFRIN: But, Laurel Miller, can the humanitarian aid be used as leverage?
Can there be some point that the U.S. uses in order to try and get that reality changed?
LAUREL MILLER: Yes, humanitarian aid cannot and should not be used as political leverage.
That would violate enormously important humanitarian principles.
There's no real diplomatic leverage over the Taliban.
I mean, yes, it's true that the United States and other governments can withhold full recognition of the government, can deny the Taliban the opportunity to hold the seat in the U.N.
But I think that we're seeing the evidence that the Taliban has other priorities.
Although they probably would prefer to have diplomatic recognition and the U.N. seat, they're prepared to live without that because they prioritized issuing the kind of edicts that Nader pointed out.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Laurel Miller, Nader Nadery, thank you very much.
LAUREL MILLER: Thank you.
NADER NADERY: Thank you.
GEOFF BENNETT: Iran has for years used American dual nationals as hostage bargaining chips with the West.
Last week, the Biden administration struck a deal to relocate five American Iranians from prison to house arrest.
It's hoped they will come home to the U.S. in the coming weeks.
Amna Nawaz sat down for an exclusive conversation with the daughters of one of the prisoners.
AMNA NAWAZ: Among the five Americans moved from Evin prison to house arrest was Emad Shargi.
Born in Iran, he moved to the U.S. as a child, returning to Iran in 2018 to reconnect with his roots.
He was arrested, convicted on bogus charges, and has been detained for the last five years.
His daughters Hannah and Ariana join me now for their first interview since their father was transferred out of prison.
Good to see you both again.
Welcome back.
ARIANA SHARGI, Daughter of Emad Shargi: Great to see you.
HANNAH SHARGI, Daughter of Emad Shargi: Thank you for having us.
AMNA NAWAZ: You have not just been able to talk to him since he left prison.
You were able to see him in a video chat.
What was that like?
What did you say to him?
What did he say to you?
ARIANA SHARGI: It was incredible to see his face in I can't even say how long it's been.
You can really tell the toll that the person has taken on him.
It looks like he's lost 30 pounds.
He looks 20 years older than he should.
All of that being said, it was such an incredible blessing to be able to speak to him, to see his face, and just to show him my apartment for the first time.
He had never seen my hair this color before.
And so just to have that face-to-face connection was just really magical.
AMNA NAWAZ: Hannah, what did you say to him?
HANNAH SHARGI: I think I screamed a little bit at first and just said I'm excited to see him face to face.
I told him again about, like, my apartment that I just moved into a New York.
And he was like: "I love the exposed brick."
(LAUGHTER) HANNAH SHARGI: And silly things that you want to tell your dad that you haven't seen in five years.
AMNA NAWAZ: He is not free yet.
We should stress that.
He's still under house arrest under the control of the Iranian regime.
U.S. officials say there's still some negotiating to be done, right?
The contours of the deal, as they have been reported, are some $6 billion in oil revenue being unfrozen in South Korea and Iranians held in the U.S. freed.
I'm told September could be when we see him come home.
You and your families have been part of a number of group calls, including one with Secretary of State Blinken yesterday.
Did he give you any other details on timeline or a deal?
HANNAH SHARGI: No.
We were lucky enough to speak with Secretary Blinken yesterday.
And he spoke to the families and just reassured us how important this issue was to him.
And it was honestly quite emotional, because this is the closest, it seems, that we have ever been.
And we are optimistically hopeful.
And just seeing the determination Secretary Blinken's face is really reassuring.
And I hope the next time we speak to him, it's with the news that our dad is on a plane headed back to the U.S. AMNA NAWAZ: Ariana, you have been on this show before.
You have been critical of the U.S. government and their efforts.
I know Hannah last time was wondering, if we can get folks home from Russia, why can't we get them home from Iran?
How would you assess how they're doing now and their efforts to free your dad?
ARIANA SHARGI: I mean, obviously, we're so happy to see these steps and see some traction.
That being said, as you said, they're still not home.
My dad is still essentially a prisoner of Iran, of the country.
And he almost died in prison.
He has been sick many times.
We're still anxious.
And I don't think we're going to stop being anxious until we're able to hug him and hold him.
And I think that's when we will really know that the job is done, is when they're on American soil.
AMNA NAWAZ: Are you worried the deal could fall apart?
ARIANA SHARGI: I don't even want to speak that into the air.
AMNA NAWAZ: Well, we know it's already facing a lot of criticism since the reports first broke, most notably from political opposition.
Former Vice President Mike Pence called it a ransom payment, adding he believes the money will fund terrorism.
And he also wrote this.
He said: "China and Russia, who are also holding Americans hostage, now know the price has just gone up."
You guys have heard these concerns before.
They're echoed by a number of lawmakers, that this could feel more hostage-taking, that more families could be in the same position yours have been in for several years.
Are you worried about that, Hannah?
HANNAH SHARGI: I mean, listen, at the end of the day, my sister and I are 25 years old and 27 years old.
We are not foreign policy experts.
And I think we should trust the U.S. government that they are doing the right thing, and they are bringing innocent Americans home.
I want to talk about that fact, the human factor.
I'm confused and, quite frankly, astonished that we are continuing to talk about all these other things, and we're forgetting that we are dealing with human lives, we are dealing with a father that misses his wife and his children, that has nearly died.
And I want to focus on that point, on the human aspect of all this.
AMNA NAWAZ: Ariana, what do you make of the criticism?
ARIANA SHARGI: I mean, as my sister said, we're not experts.
We really -- we can have no say in all of this.
We just want to emphasize the point that these are innocent people.
They have been rotting away in jail.
They have missed graduations, birthdays, first cars, their kids' dating lives.
Like, they have missed all of these little things only because they're Americans.
So, as my sister said, I think we really need to focus on the fact that we need to bring these individuals home and, yes, trust that the experts will do their job.
AMNA NAWAZ: It has been five years since you hugged your dad, right, since you have seen him in person.
You talked about all the things he has missed.
Have you thought about the first thing you will do when you get to see him, when he's home?
ARIANA SHARGI: I mean, I know my sister and I have both dreamed of our dad coming home almost every night.
I wake up five, six times a week just heartbroken that my dreams are not a reality.
And always in those dreams the only thing that I do is just hug him.
And I think that that's the only thing that I want to do.
I just want to hug my dad, and I don't want to let him go.
I just want us, the four of us, me and my sister and my mom, my dad, to be able to sit down at the table like we used to every night for dinner, eat my dad's incredible cooking, his lasagnas, listen to classic rock, and just be able to be normal and have normal conversations and just -- yes.
AMNA NAWAZ: What about you, Hannah?
HANNAH SHARGI: I mean, I'm scared I will just collapse to the floor the moment I see him, because I have thought about it for so long, like my sister said.
Yes, I just want to hug him and never let him get too far from me again.
I want to barbecue with him, show him that I have been keeping the grill warm this whole time.
I had to learn how to barbecue since he's been gone.
I just want to tell him all the things he's missed.
I mean, he's missed one-fifth of my entire life at this point.
That's a long time for a young girl.
So I just want him close by.
And we will keep hoping and praying until hopefully that comes true.
AMNA NAWAZ: Hannah and Ariana Shargi, the daughters of Emad Shargi, thank you so much for joining us.
Good to see you both again.
ARIANA SHARGI: Thank you for having us.
HANNAH SHARGI: Thank you so much.
ARIANA SHARGI: Thank you.
GEOFF BENNETT: And we will be back shortly with a look at a unique trial in Montana where young people have sued the state in a climate change case.
But, first, take a moment to hear from your local PBS station.
It's a chance to offer your support, which helps keep programs like this one on the air.
For those of you staying with us, we take a look now a historic case in Montana.
Yesterday, a judge sided with a group of young environmental activists who argued the state was violating its Constitution by promoting fossil fuel development without considering the impact on climate change.
In June, William Brangham examined the arguments on both sides of the case just as the trial was getting under way.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: It was back in middle school when Claire Vlases first asked some adults to do something for the environment.
Her middle school in Bozeman, Montana, was undergoing a major renovation, so she thought, why not put solar panels on all that new roof?
She presented the idea to the project managers.
CLAIRE VLASES, College Student: I was immediately shut down.
They just told me that the idea wasn't feasible and it was way too expensive.
Went home, cried about it a little bit, and then thought about it more.
And I realized, if the only barrier to putting solar panels on the school was the cost, how it wasn't a big deal.
I could just raise the money myself.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And this is middle school you having this idea?
(LAUGHTER) CLAIRE VLASES: Yes, it worked well because I didn't have any idea of what money was.
I didn't know.
I didn't know that $125,000 was a big amount.
(LAUGHTER) WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So the teenager and some other classmates held fund-raisers, and they raised the money.
Those panels now supply a quarter of the schools's power, saving the district an estimated $8,000 a year.
But Vlases, who's now going to be a junior in college, has set her sights on an even bigger issue.
She and 15 other young people from across Montana, including multiple members of Native American tribes, are suing their state.
They say Montana's support and permitting of oil, coal and gas projects is polluting the atmosphere, exacerbating climate change, and harming the state's environment, which, they argue, their state Constitution explicitly prohibits.
Their case, known as Held v. Montana, is the first such state case to ever go to trial.
CLAIRE VLASES: One reason why I love Montana is because, in our Constitution, it says that every person here has a right to a clean and healthful environment, which isn't in almost all the constitutions in the United States.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.
That is pretty rare.
CLAIRE VLASES: Mm-hmm.
That's not a political issue here in Montana.
We all are here because of the land.
And we have a right to protect that.
And so, as I have learned about climate change, and I have seen what our lawmakers have done promoting fossil fuel industries, I have realized that that is unconstitutional acts.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Montana's Constitution has this unusual clause because, back in the 1970s, some citizen conservationists who were concerned with mining and clear-cutting wanted to enshrine a more overt environmental protection right near the top of their Constitution.
Sandra Zellmer, who teaches and researches environmental law at the University of Montana's law school, says these young plaintiffs are testing the strength of that protection.
SANDRA ZELLMER, University of Montana: This allows the plaintiffs to put on evidence that the state's decision-making is exacerbating greenhouse gas omissions and leading to climate change, warmer, dryer, temperatures with all of the adverse effects heat waves, wildfires, depleted fisheries, destruction of the stability of our agriculture.
So to be able to introduce experts and to get that before a judge in a courtroom at trial is really quite phenomenal.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: But the plaintiffs are facing strong opposition.
This year, the Republican supermajority in Montana's capitol and the governor's mansion passed a series of laws promoting further coal and gas development and hampering renewable energy.
It barred state agencies from considering the impact of greenhouse gasses when issuing permits.
And it repealed the state's official energy policy, which narrowed the scope of the youth lawsuit.
Republican Senate Majority Leader Steve Fitzpatrick, who supported these legislative moves, points out that Montana already uses a lot of renewable energy and argues any further changes will have no bearing on climate change.
STATE REP. STEVE FITZPATRICK (R-MT): Just because there's something going on doesn't mean that we necessarily need to take steps that are going to be expensive, that are going to cost people jobs.
We are one million people in a country of over 300 million people.
We're one million people on an Earth with 7.9 billion people on it.
I think there's very little that we're going to do at the state level that's going to have an impact on Earth's temperatures.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The young plaintiffs are being represented by Our Children's Trust, an Oregon-based environmental law firm that has tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to bring similar cases in every state and against the federal government.
Montana's being represented by it's attorney general, Austin Knudsen.
His office described the suit as a meritless publicity stunt and, in a statement to the "NewsHour," said these young plaintiffs are being manipulated -- quote -- "Our Children's Trust is a special interest group that is exploiting well-intentioned Montana kids, including a 4-year-old and an 8-year-old, to achieve its goal of shutting down responsible energy development in our state."
CLAIRE VLASES: Even though I'm a younger person, it doesn't mean that I'm manipulated or that I don't know the decisions that I'm making.
He knows the decisions that he makes every day, and I believe it is our decisions that define us as people.
And so there shouldn't be a question to my decision just because I'm a couple of years younger than him.
WOMAN: Claire, you spend a ton of time moving around outside, apparently.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Last week, Claire Vlases took the stand at the courthouse in Helena, testifying how a shrinking snowpack impacted her job as a ski instructor and how smoke from wildfires made it hard for her and her cross-country team to run in high school.
CLAIRE VLASES: Knowing that there is something I can do to protect the landscape and the world that's given so much to me and allowed me to be a strong individual, that's the most important thing.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Vlases and her fellow plaintiffs hope the judge will rule that state that the state's support for fossil fuels is harming the environment, and thus is unconstitutional.
And even though that kind of ruling won't immediately change Montana's energy or environmental policies, they see a longer-term goal.
CLAIRE VLASES: We hope that it will be the check that our legislature needs to keep them back on the right track, but it, moreover, would set an example to the other states that this is something that people want, especially young people, and that we can make a difference.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The trial is scheduled to finish by the end of this week.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I am William Brangham in Bozeman, Montana.
GEOFF BENNETT: For those of you just rejoining us, we have been exploring the landmark court case in Montana, where young climate activists challenged the state's promotion of fossil fuels, and won.
William Brangham, is here now to explain yesterday's ruling and help us understand the broader implications in Montana and nationwide.
William, it's always great to see you.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Nice to see you.
GEOFF BENNETT: So, for folks who didn't get to see your earlier report, remind us of the argument these young people in Montana were making, this argument that was just affirmed in court yesterday.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: These young people were arguing that Montana's embrace of fossil fuels was hurting the state's environment by pumping all these carbon emissions into the air, and that that was harming the environment, that it was driving climate change, and that it was violating the state's Constitution, which Montana has this very unique clause in its Constitution, which says that citizens have a right to a clean and healthful environment.
And Judge Kathy Seeley agreed with them and said that, because the state was not looking at the carbon emissions of any fossil fuel project when it was going to issue permits, that it was violating the Constitution.
So, that was the judgment yesterday.
These students were represented by Our Children's Trust, which is an environmental law firm based out of Oregon.
And they have tried similar cases in other states.
None of them have been successful.
They have one federal case that has gotten forward, but it's stalled in the courts now.
So this is really the first of its kind in the country.
The state of Montana was represented by its attorney general.
They derided the case all along and implied that the kids were basically being used by this law firm.
And they have vowed to appeal the ruling.
GEOFF BENNETT: So, assuming this ruling survives the appeal, what might the impact be, not just in Montana, but across the country?
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The impact in Montana is to be determined.
The ruling means that the state legislature, which, in Montana, is GOP-dominated and very friendly to the fossil fuel industry, they will determine how the state goes forward in assessing whether carbon emissions should deter or allow a fossil fuel project to go forward.
Montana makes a lot of coal, and it's a big industry, a lot of jobs, a lot of -- important part of the economy there.
So it may not be such a big impact in Montana immediately.
I talked today with a guy named Michael Burger.
He runs the Sabin Center for Climate Study at Columbia University.
And he argues that the longer impact, the broader impact of this ruling will be nationwide, because the findings of fact in this case were affirmed by the judge that said, climate change is real, that emissions drive climate change, that climate change can be harmful, and that local emissions in your own state can damage the people who live in that state.
He says those findings of fact are substantial and that it's not setting precedent around the country, but that a lot of other cases - - and there are a lot of other cases going on.
There are several other youth cases that are going.
There's a lot of litigation against fossil fuel industries.
These findings of facts could have a much broader impact and could ripple out nationwide.
GEOFF BENNETT: William Brangham, thanks so much for that reporting.
Appreciate it.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: My pleasure, Geoff.
GEOFF BENNETT: And if you missed William's original report looking at the case of the young activists in Montana, you can find it at PBS.org/NewsHour.
Also online, we have an exclusive look at a letter from Hispanic Democratic lawmakers demanding an investigation into the separation of migrant families by Texas authorities.
You can read more at PBS.org/NewsHour.
And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.
I'm Geoff Bennett.
Thanks for spending part of your evening with us.