1 00:00:01,666 --> 00:00:03,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: It is a tumultuous time in the news business. 2 00:00:03,733 --> 00:00:08,566 Significant percentages of Americans fundamentally don't trust news sources 3 00:00:08,566 --> 00:00:13,566 that don't line up with their opinions. And the financial landscape is perilous. 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,866 Last week, Tribune Publishing, which owns nine major daily metro newspapers, 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,233 including The Chicago Tribune, announced that it was turning over complete control 6 00:00:26,633 --> 00:00:29,266 to Alden Global Capital, a hedge fund widely seen as gutting editorial coverage at newspapers. Only 7 00:00:31,766 --> 00:00:36,766 one of The Tribune's papers, The Baltimore Sun, will now be turned into a not-for-profit 8 00:00:38,233 --> 00:00:41,500 and owned by a Maryland business executive and philanthropist. 9 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:46,433 We examine some pressing questions of the moment with two who know this well. 10 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:51,333 Gregory Moore is a former editor of The Denver Post. He is now 11 00:00:51,333 --> 00:00:56,300 editor in chief at Deke Digital. It's a company that advises corporate executives. 12 00:00:57,766 --> 00:01:00,666 And Radhika Jones, she is the editor of "Vanity Fair." 13 00:01:00,666 --> 00:01:05,666 She also worked at The New York Times and at "TIME" magazine, before taking over Vanity Fair." 14 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:10,166 It is so good to see both of you. Thank you for being here. 15 00:01:10,166 --> 00:01:15,166 Let's start by talking about this business model. It used to be that newspapers, broadcast outlets 16 00:01:17,066 --> 00:01:21,433 sold advertising, people bought things, and somehow there was enough money to pay 17 00:01:22,733 --> 00:01:26,500 newspaper and broadcast reporters' salaries. 18 00:01:26,500 --> 00:01:28,733 Gregory Moore, what do we have now? 19 00:01:28,733 --> 00:01:32,100 GREGORY MOORE, Editor in Chief, Deke Digital: Well, you have a lot of uncertainty. 20 00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:36,733 Google and Facebook really changed the advertising landscape. They have gobbled 21 00:01:36,733 --> 00:01:41,333 up somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 or 95 percent of the media advertising. 22 00:01:41,333 --> 00:01:45,400 And so local news organizations in particular have had to go looking 23 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,066 for other ways to sort of finance the collection and dissemination of news. 24 00:01:50,066 --> 00:01:55,033 And what's really exciting about it is that we're looking at new models and new opportunities, from 25 00:01:57,466 --> 00:02:01,833 foundations owning and supporting news operations, to taxpayer-supported formulas that will work, 26 00:02:07,766 --> 00:02:12,733 corporate donations and things of that nature that, 15 years ago, we wouldn't even look at. 27 00:02:12,733 --> 00:02:16,833 But I think we have got to find a new model. The advertising one is broken. 28 00:02:16,833 --> 00:02:20,100 And it is really critical to the success of the local news environment. 29 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,900 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Radhika Jones, you were telling us, while we're figuring all of this out, 30 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:28,966 local coverage, local news coverage has taken a big hit. 31 00:02:28,966 --> 00:02:30,500 RADHIKA JONES, Editor in Chief, "Vanity Fair": It has. 32 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,933 There are certain national news outlets that have become a lot stronger in, say, 33 00:02:35,933 --> 00:02:40,933 the last decade, decade-and-a-half, and local news has suffered, in large part because of the 34 00:02:42,833 --> 00:02:46,933 collapse of things like classified ads, which are now such a relic of the past. 35 00:02:49,033 --> 00:02:51,966 But the irony is that local news often is national news. I think about what happened 36 00:02:53,966 --> 00:02:58,300 with the blackouts in Texas, and the way that all of our eyes were trained on those events. 37 00:03:00,366 --> 00:03:03,966 And it was reporting from Texas Monthly and from the paper in Houston and places like that, 38 00:03:06,733 --> 00:03:11,700 that really helped bring clarity to that situation and hold powerful people to account. 39 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:15,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: Greg Moore, while all of this is going on, you have the deepest political 40 00:03:17,266 --> 00:03:19,300 polarization across the country that we have ever seen, 41 00:03:21,866 --> 00:03:25,166 people gravitating toward, as I mentioned a moment ago, news sources that reflect their own opinion. 42 00:03:27,166 --> 00:03:31,333 There was a Pew study that came out today that said one-quarter of Republicans consistently 43 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:37,166 turn to news sources with right-leaning audiences, same for Democrats, a quarter of Democrats doing 44 00:03:39,533 --> 00:03:44,033 the same. And then you have a half of Democrats and a third of 45 00:03:44,033 --> 00:03:49,033 Republicans turning to sources, news sources, that serve -- try to serve a mainstream audience. 46 00:03:52,033 --> 00:03:56,366 What has all this meant for the challenges facing journalists? 47 00:03:56,366 --> 00:03:59,733 GREGORY MOORE: Well, one of the things that it has meant 48 00:03:59,733 --> 00:04:04,700 is sort of a lack of common sense or a common set of facts. 49 00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:09,233 As these particularly local news organizations have 50 00:04:10,633 --> 00:04:13,533 lost their ability to sort of more broadly cover issues, 51 00:04:13,533 --> 00:04:18,033 our collective sense of what is going on in our communities has really been disrupted. 52 00:04:18,033 --> 00:04:22,100 I think the second thing that has happened is that we have lost some credibility, 53 00:04:22,100 --> 00:04:27,100 that the fake news assault over the last four, four-and-a-half years has really had some effect. 54 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:32,966 We have lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,800 newspapers, to be specific, 55 00:04:32,966 --> 00:04:37,366 1,800 newspapers in probably the last 10 years. 56 00:04:37,366 --> 00:04:40,433 And with that, we have lost a lot of institutional memory. But, 57 00:04:40,433 --> 00:04:44,166 more than that, those newspapers had 150 years of credibility. 58 00:04:44,166 --> 00:04:49,166 They're being replaced by upstarts that really haven't earned the right to be where they are. 59 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:56,700 And so the way that they're doing it is by appealing to what people already think they know, 60 00:04:58,666 --> 00:05:03,100 right? They're confirming the very limited sort of siloed existence that they have, 61 00:05:04,966 --> 00:05:08,433 and it is really contributing to a breakdown in the sense of community. 62 00:05:08,433 --> 00:05:12,833 It's really -- we're at a perilous moment here. It doesn't mean it is going to last, 63 00:05:12,833 --> 00:05:17,233 but we're at a perilous moment where we can't even agree on a common set of facts 64 00:05:17,233 --> 00:05:20,033 because of the fractured nature of the media. 65 00:05:20,033 --> 00:05:25,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Radhika Jones, how has that affected the journalism you can do at 66 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,333 "Vanity Fair" and what you see others doing? And do you think this is a trust that can be regained? 67 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:39,100 RADHIKA JONES: I do think it can be regained. I am an optimistic on that front. 68 00:05:41,666 --> 00:05:44,866 And I think that the mere fact that we are having these conversations and drawing attention to it, 69 00:05:46,933 --> 00:05:51,433 I hope is a helpful step in the right direction. I mean, one thing that has happened, 70 00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:57,266 especially in the last four years, with the assault on the media and its credibility, has been 71 00:06:00,766 --> 00:06:05,733 a lot of hostility toward members of the press and reporters who I work with both at "Vanity Fair" 72 00:06:08,166 --> 00:06:12,066 and places in the past, who've endured threats and incredible hostility simply for doing their jobs. 73 00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:19,900 And I think that the more we can shine a light on that and start to reestablish, 74 00:06:23,533 --> 00:06:28,533 in a transparent way, the fact that people in the media are not the enemy, they are actually 75 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:35,266 holding powerful people to account, they are providing clarity, they are providing a service, 76 00:06:37,666 --> 00:06:42,066 and often a very community-based service, I think, the more we can show that, show our processes, 77 00:06:44,266 --> 00:06:47,866 make decisions in transparent ways, the better off we will be. 78 00:06:47,866 --> 00:06:52,866 JUDY WOODRUFF: I know that is something we think about every day, all the time, at the "NewsHour." 79 00:06:54,933 --> 00:06:59,166 The other thing I want to bring up with both of you, Greg Moore, is, while all this is happening, 80 00:07:01,666 --> 00:07:04,466 there is a generational change. There is a turnover in leadership at a number of major news 81 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,300 organizations. There is an increasing call, in this age of Black Lives Matter and within the last 82 00:07:12,833 --> 00:07:17,100 year, the death of George Floyd, there is a call for more diversity, more inclusion in newsrooms. 83 00:07:19,366 --> 00:07:22,033 Journalists have talked about this for a long time, 84 00:07:22,033 --> 00:07:24,966 but we still have a long way to go. How do you see the progress 85 00:07:26,966 --> 00:07:30,266 that is being made? And how much difference does it make that there is progress? 86 00:07:30,266 --> 00:07:35,233 GREGORY MOORE: Well, certainly, having diverse newsrooms is hugely important 87 00:07:35,233 --> 00:07:40,233 to covering stories like Black Lives Matter and policing in America, income inequality. 88 00:07:42,833 --> 00:07:47,233 Having people who have experienced some of that, who actually understand 89 00:07:47,233 --> 00:07:51,133 what is that is like really contributes to how a story like that gets covered. 90 00:07:52,500 --> 00:07:54,500 We're -- when the economy is bad, 91 00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:58,100 the first thing that really goes in news organizations is diversity. 92 00:07:58,100 --> 00:08:03,100 And we are witnessing what I have described as the whitening of the media. We have lost a lot. 93 00:08:04,666 --> 00:08:08,500 And one of the ways that we get it back is to shine a light on it, 94 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:13,500 as Radhika was saying, and make sure that we explain that, while we may be losing 95 00:08:15,533 --> 00:08:18,866 diversity that is so important in newspapers, these new digital upstarts that are being created, 96 00:08:21,466 --> 00:08:23,766 they need to put an emphasis on diversity. 97 00:08:23,766 --> 00:08:28,766 If you look at a lot of these digital verticals that have been created in the last 10 years, 98 00:08:31,266 --> 00:08:33,900 they're almost exclusively white. And that really affects the kinds of stories that get covered, 99 00:08:35,866 --> 00:08:39,300 who gets to tell the stories, who gets included as sources and things of that nature. 100 00:08:39,300 --> 00:08:44,300 And I would say, next to the financial stability of the media, the second most important thing 101 00:08:47,066 --> 00:08:50,966 is inclusion and a diversity of voices, not just on the reporting level, 102 00:08:50,966 --> 00:08:55,766 but on the editing level, on the producer level, and certainly in the chief executive office. 103 00:08:55,766 --> 00:09:00,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Radhika, Radhika Jones, how do you see the imperative here? How much 104 00:09:02,933 --> 00:09:06,066 difference does it make that this happens? Is it happening at the pace it should be happening at? 105 00:09:08,133 --> 00:09:12,866 RADHIKA JONES: I think one always wants it to happen faster. It is a work in progress. 106 00:09:14,666 --> 00:09:18,666 Again, I think the fact that we're having these conversations and that they are, 107 00:09:18,666 --> 00:09:21,866 in my experience at least, more robust than they have ever been 108 00:09:23,466 --> 00:09:28,466 is cause for optimism. But I do agree that it is extremely important. 109 00:09:30,966 --> 00:09:35,100 And it does come back around to that local news question, because, often, local news, where it 110 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,566 exists, is able to serve otherwise marginalized or underserved communities. And so to be able to 111 00:09:44,433 --> 00:09:49,433 have a diverse group of reporters and writers and editors, and more than that, podcasters, audience 112 00:09:53,133 --> 00:09:58,033 development executives, everyone now who contributes to multiplatform news, to be able 113 00:09:58,033 --> 00:10:03,033 to have those people come from different places, and represent different modes of storytelling, 114 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:10,166 represent different points of view is going to be critical, I think, for our success going forward. 115 00:10:10,166 --> 00:10:15,166 JUDY WOODRUFF: And you raise a point that does get back to something I know we're all interested in. 116 00:10:17,233 --> 00:10:22,233 As we democratize, if you will, small D, the coverage of news, as the public, the audience is 117 00:10:25,233 --> 00:10:30,233 more involved in what we cover, there are fewer editors. How much should we worry about that? 118 00:10:34,466 --> 00:10:39,433 How does that figure into journalism as it moves into the future, Greg Moore? 119 00:10:41,466 --> 00:10:44,933 GREGORY MOORE: Well, Judy, I don't confuse citizens with being journalists. 120 00:10:47,333 --> 00:10:51,566 There is more to be a journalist than jotting down notes or recording a conversation. There's a whole 121 00:10:53,466 --> 00:10:58,300 different level of accountability and verifying and things of that nature. 122 00:11:00,433 --> 00:11:03,533 But I do think that the people that we cover need to have a stronger voice. 123 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:07,866 And what that coverage looks like, they should be able to interact. 124 00:11:07,866 --> 00:11:12,833 They should be able to give resolution to errors and omissions in real time. 125 00:11:14,666 --> 00:11:17,066 You know, when I was coming up in this business, if we made a mistake, 126 00:11:17,066 --> 00:11:21,066 we basically tried to negotiate our way out of it: Next time, we will do better. 127 00:11:21,066 --> 00:11:24,900 Well, that's not good enough now. I think that the damage that can be done 128 00:11:26,833 --> 00:11:30,533 by portraying individuals or communities incorrectly is much longer-lasting with the Web. 129 00:11:33,933 --> 00:11:38,166 And so being able to interact and being able to influence 130 00:11:38,166 --> 00:11:43,166 coverage and actually understanding how that is done, I think, is one of the most important 131 00:11:45,133 --> 00:11:48,533 reasons that women and people of color and other underserved and marginalized folks 132 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,400 need to be a part of the media power chain in this country, to demystify it. 133 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,900 JUDY WOODRUFF: We thank you very much, Radhika Jones, Greg Moore. Thank you. 134 00:11:57,900 --> 00:11:58,866 GREGORY MOORE: Thank you. 135 00:11:58,866 --> 00:11:59,366 RADHIKA JONES: Thank you. 136 00:12:01,266 --> 00:12:05,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: So grateful to both of them. Such an important subject for all of us.