WEBVTT 00:01.666 --> 00:03.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: It is a tumultuous time in the news business. 00:03.733 --> 00:08.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Significant percentages of Americans fundamentally don't trust news sources 00:08.566 --> 00:13.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that don't line up with their opinions. And the financial landscape is perilous. 00:15.400 --> 00:18.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Last week, Tribune Publishing, which owns nine major daily metro newspapers, 00:20.800 --> 00:24.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% including The Chicago Tribune, announced that it was turning over complete control 00:26.633 --> 00:29.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to Alden Global Capital, a hedge fund widely seen as gutting editorial coverage at newspapers. Only 00:31.766 --> 00:36.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% one of The Tribune's papers, The Baltimore Sun, will now be turned into a not-for-profit 00:38.233 --> 00:41.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and owned by a Maryland business executive and philanthropist. 00:41.500 --> 00:46.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We examine some pressing questions of the moment with two who know this well. 00:47.900 --> 00:51.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Gregory Moore is a former editor of The Denver Post. He is now 00:51.333 --> 00:56.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% editor in chief at Deke Digital. It's a company that advises corporate executives. 00:57.766 --> 01:00.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And Radhika Jones, she is the editor of "Vanity Fair." 01:00.666 --> 01:05.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% She also worked at The New York Times and at "TIME" magazine, before taking over Vanity Fair." 01:07.100 --> 01:10.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It is so good to see both of you. Thank you for being here. 01:10.166 --> 01:15.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Let's start by talking about this business model. It used to be that newspapers, broadcast outlets 01:17.066 --> 01:21.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% sold advertising, people bought things, and somehow there was enough money to pay 01:22.733 --> 01:26.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% newspaper and broadcast reporters' salaries. 01:26.500 --> 01:28.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Gregory Moore, what do we have now? 01:28.733 --> 01:32.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GREGORY MOORE, Editor in Chief, Deke Digital: Well, you have a lot of uncertainty. 01:32.100 --> 01:36.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Google and Facebook really changed the advertising landscape. They have gobbled 01:36.733 --> 01:41.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% up somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 or 95 percent of the media advertising. 01:41.333 --> 01:45.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so local news organizations in particular have had to go looking 01:45.400 --> 01:50.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for other ways to sort of finance the collection and dissemination of news. 01:50.066 --> 01:55.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And what's really exciting about it is that we're looking at new models and new opportunities, from 01:57.466 --> 02:01.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% foundations owning and supporting news operations, to taxpayer-supported formulas that will work, 02:07.766 --> 02:12.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% corporate donations and things of that nature that, 15 years ago, we wouldn't even look at. 02:12.733 --> 02:16.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I think we have got to find a new model. The advertising one is broken. 02:16.833 --> 02:20.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it is really critical to the success of the local news environment. 02:22.600 --> 02:24.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Radhika Jones, you were telling us, while we're figuring all of this out, 02:24.900 --> 02:28.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% local coverage, local news coverage has taken a big hit. 02:28.966 --> 02:30.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% RADHIKA JONES, Editor in Chief, "Vanity Fair": It has. 02:32.400 --> 02:35.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There are certain national news outlets that have become a lot stronger in, say, 02:35.933 --> 02:40.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the last decade, decade-and-a-half, and local news has suffered, in large part because of the 02:42.833 --> 02:46.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% collapse of things like classified ads, which are now such a relic of the past. 02:49.033 --> 02:51.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But the irony is that local news often is national news. I think about what happened 02:53.966 --> 02:58.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with the blackouts in Texas, and the way that all of our eyes were trained on those events. 03:00.366 --> 03:03.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it was reporting from Texas Monthly and from the paper in Houston and places like that, 03:06.733 --> 03:11.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that really helped bring clarity to that situation and hold powerful people to account. 03:11.700 --> 03:15.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Greg Moore, while all of this is going on, you have the deepest political 03:17.266 --> 03:19.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% polarization across the country that we have ever seen, 03:21.866 --> 03:25.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% people gravitating toward, as I mentioned a moment ago, news sources that reflect their own opinion. 03:27.166 --> 03:31.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There was a Pew study that came out today that said one-quarter of Republicans consistently 03:33.900 --> 03:37.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% turn to news sources with right-leaning audiences, same for Democrats, a quarter of Democrats doing 03:39.533 --> 03:44.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the same. And then you have a half of Democrats and a third of 03:44.033 --> 03:49.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans turning to sources, news sources, that serve -- try to serve a mainstream audience. 03:52.033 --> 03:56.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% What has all this meant for the challenges facing journalists? 03:56.366 --> 03:59.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GREGORY MOORE: Well, one of the things that it has meant 03:59.733 --> 04:04.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is sort of a lack of common sense or a common set of facts. 04:06.100 --> 04:09.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% As these particularly local news organizations have 04:10.633 --> 04:13.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% lost their ability to sort of more broadly cover issues, 04:13.533 --> 04:18.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% our collective sense of what is going on in our communities has really been disrupted. 04:18.033 --> 04:22.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think the second thing that has happened is that we have lost some credibility, 04:22.100 --> 04:27.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that the fake news assault over the last four, four-and-a-half years has really had some effect. 04:29.100 --> 04:32.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We have lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,800 newspapers, to be specific, 04:32.966 --> 04:37.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% 1,800 newspapers in probably the last 10 years. 04:37.366 --> 04:40.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And with that, we have lost a lot of institutional memory. But, 04:40.433 --> 04:44.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% more than that, those newspapers had 150 years of credibility. 04:44.166 --> 04:49.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% They're being replaced by upstarts that really haven't earned the right to be where they are. 04:51.700 --> 04:56.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so the way that they're doing it is by appealing to what people already think they know, 04:58.666 --> 05:03.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? They're confirming the very limited sort of siloed existence that they have, 05:04.966 --> 05:08.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and it is really contributing to a breakdown in the sense of community. 05:08.433 --> 05:12.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's really -- we're at a perilous moment here. It doesn't mean it is going to last, 05:12.833 --> 05:17.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but we're at a perilous moment where we can't even agree on a common set of facts 05:17.233 --> 05:20.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because of the fractured nature of the media. 05:20.033 --> 05:25.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Radhika Jones, how has that affected the journalism you can do at 05:27.600 --> 05:31.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% "Vanity Fair" and what you see others doing? And do you think this is a trust that can be regained? 05:34.100 --> 05:39.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% RADHIKA JONES: I do think it can be regained. I am an optimistic on that front. 05:41.666 --> 05:44.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And I think that the mere fact that we are having these conversations and drawing attention to it, 05:46.933 --> 05:51.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I hope is a helpful step in the right direction. I mean, one thing that has happened, 05:53.900 --> 05:57.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% especially in the last four years, with the assault on the media and its credibility, has been 06:00.766 --> 06:05.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a lot of hostility toward members of the press and reporters who I work with both at "Vanity Fair" 06:08.166 --> 06:12.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and places in the past, who've endured threats and incredible hostility simply for doing their jobs. 06:14.900 --> 06:19.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think that the more we can shine a light on that and start to reestablish, 06:23.533 --> 06:28.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in a transparent way, the fact that people in the media are not the enemy, they are actually 06:30.600 --> 06:35.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% holding powerful people to account, they are providing clarity, they are providing a service, 06:37.666 --> 06:42.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and often a very community-based service, I think, the more we can show that, show our processes, 06:44.266 --> 06:47.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% make decisions in transparent ways, the better off we will be. 06:47.866 --> 06:52.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: I know that is something we think about every day, all the time, at the "NewsHour." 06:54.933 --> 06:59.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The other thing I want to bring up with both of you, Greg Moore, is, while all this is happening, 07:01.666 --> 07:04.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% there is a generational change. There is a turnover in leadership at a number of major news 07:07.000 --> 07:10.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% organizations. There is an increasing call, in this age of Black Lives Matter and within the last 07:12.833 --> 07:17.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% year, the death of George Floyd, there is a call for more diversity, more inclusion in newsrooms. 07:19.366 --> 07:22.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Journalists have talked about this for a long time, 07:22.033 --> 07:24.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but we still have a long way to go. How do you see the progress 07:26.966 --> 07:30.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that is being made? And how much difference does it make that there is progress? 07:30.266 --> 07:35.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GREGORY MOORE: Well, certainly, having diverse newsrooms is hugely important 07:35.233 --> 07:40.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to covering stories like Black Lives Matter and policing in America, income inequality. 07:42.833 --> 07:47.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Having people who have experienced some of that, who actually understand 07:47.233 --> 07:51.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what is that is like really contributes to how a story like that gets covered. 07:52.500 --> 07:54.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We're -- when the economy is bad, 07:54.500 --> 07:58.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the first thing that really goes in news organizations is diversity. 07:58.100 --> 08:03.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And we are witnessing what I have described as the whitening of the media. We have lost a lot. 08:04.666 --> 08:08.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And one of the ways that we get it back is to shine a light on it, 08:08.500 --> 08:13.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as Radhika was saying, and make sure that we explain that, while we may be losing 08:15.533 --> 08:18.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% diversity that is so important in newspapers, these new digital upstarts that are being created, 08:21.466 --> 08:23.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they need to put an emphasis on diversity. 08:23.766 --> 08:28.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If you look at a lot of these digital verticals that have been created in the last 10 years, 08:31.266 --> 08:33.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% they're almost exclusively white. And that really affects the kinds of stories that get covered, 08:35.866 --> 08:39.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% who gets to tell the stories, who gets included as sources and things of that nature. 08:39.300 --> 08:44.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And I would say, next to the financial stability of the media, the second most important thing 08:47.066 --> 08:50.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is inclusion and a diversity of voices, not just on the reporting level, 08:50.966 --> 08:55.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but on the editing level, on the producer level, and certainly in the chief executive office. 08:55.766 --> 09:00.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Radhika, Radhika Jones, how do you see the imperative here? How much 09:02.933 --> 09:06.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% difference does it make that this happens? Is it happening at the pace it should be happening at? 09:08.133 --> 09:12.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% RADHIKA JONES: I think one always wants it to happen faster. It is a work in progress. 09:14.666 --> 09:18.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Again, I think the fact that we're having these conversations and that they are, 09:18.666 --> 09:21.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in my experience at least, more robust than they have ever been 09:23.466 --> 09:28.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% is cause for optimism. But I do agree that it is extremely important. 09:30.966 --> 09:35.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And it does come back around to that local news question, because, often, local news, where it 09:37.600 --> 09:41.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% exists, is able to serve otherwise marginalized or underserved communities. And so to be able to 09:44.433 --> 09:49.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% have a diverse group of reporters and writers and editors, and more than that, podcasters, audience 09:53.133 --> 09:58.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% development executives, everyone now who contributes to multiplatform news, to be able 09:58.033 --> 10:03.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to have those people come from different places, and represent different modes of storytelling, 10:05.700 --> 10:10.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% represent different points of view is going to be critical, I think, for our success going forward. 10:10.166 --> 10:15.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And you raise a point that does get back to something I know we're all interested in. 10:17.233 --> 10:22.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As we democratize, if you will, small D, the coverage of news, as the public, the audience is 10:25.233 --> 10:30.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% more involved in what we cover, there are fewer editors. How much should we worry about that? 10:34.466 --> 10:39.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% How does that figure into journalism as it moves into the future, Greg Moore? 10:41.466 --> 10:44.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GREGORY MOORE: Well, Judy, I don't confuse citizens with being journalists. 10:47.333 --> 10:51.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% There is more to be a journalist than jotting down notes or recording a conversation. There's a whole 10:53.466 --> 10:58.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% different level of accountability and verifying and things of that nature. 11:00.433 --> 11:03.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I do think that the people that we cover need to have a stronger voice. 11:05.100 --> 11:07.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And what that coverage looks like, they should be able to interact. 11:07.866 --> 11:12.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They should be able to give resolution to errors and omissions in real time. 11:14.666 --> 11:17.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You know, when I was coming up in this business, if we made a mistake, 11:17.066 --> 11:21.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we basically tried to negotiate our way out of it: Next time, we will do better. 11:21.066 --> 11:24.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Well, that's not good enough now. I think that the damage that can be done 11:26.833 --> 11:30.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% by portraying individuals or communities incorrectly is much longer-lasting with the Web. 11:33.933 --> 11:38.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so being able to interact and being able to influence 11:38.166 --> 11:43.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% coverage and actually understanding how that is done, I think, is one of the most important 11:45.133 --> 11:48.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% reasons that women and people of color and other underserved and marginalized folks 11:50.600 --> 11:53.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% need to be a part of the media power chain in this country, to demystify it. 11:53.400 --> 11:57.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: We thank you very much, Radhika Jones, Greg Moore. Thank you. 11:57.900 --> 11:58.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% GREGORY MOORE: Thank you. 11:58.866 --> 11:59.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RADHIKA JONES: Thank you. 12:01.266 --> 12:05.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: So grateful to both of them. Such an important subject for all of us.