WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:05.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: The Supreme Court heard arguments today in a case challenging the removal of 00:05.333 --> 00:09.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% hundreds of thousands of people from voter rolls in Ohio. 00:09.533 --> 00:14.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% In a moment, Jeffrey Brown will talk to Marcia Coyle of "The National Law Journal" about 00:14.033 --> 00:17.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the questions the justices asked inside the court. 00:17.333 --> 00:22.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But we begin with a report from Karen Kasler of PBS' Ohio station ideastream about what's 00:23.766 --> 00:25.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% at stake in the Buckeye State. 00:25.833 --> 00:30.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% KAREN KASLER: U.S. Army Sergeant Joseph Helle was in Iraq in 2006 and 2007, and in Afghanistan 00:32.166 --> 00:33.933 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% in 2009. 00:33.933 --> 00:38.500 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% But when he came home to Ohio in 2011, he found a battle he didn't expect. 00:38.500 --> 00:42.933 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% Helle showed up to vote that fall, and found his name had been removed from the voter rolls. 00:42.933 --> 00:44.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% JOSEPH HELLE, Mayor of Oak Harbor, Ohio: I started crying. 00:44.933 --> 00:48.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It was heartbreaking to be told that one of those fundamental rights that I put my put 00:48.700 --> 00:53.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% my life on the line for, raised my right hand for, that I wasn't allowed to exercise it. 00:53.333 --> 00:56.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I was protecting it for others, but others weren't able to protect it for me. 00:56.700 --> 01:01.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% KAREN KASLER: Helle, who is now the mayor of Oak Harbor, a small village near Toledo, 01:01.166 --> 01:06.166 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% has joined the coalition of mostly progressive-leaning groups opposing the two-pronged approach Ohio 01:07.333 --> 01:09.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% has to maintaining its voter rolls. 01:09.366 --> 01:14.100 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If a voter doesn't cast a ballot for two years, a postcard or mailer is sent to the address 01:15.166 --> 01:17.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% listed on the voter's registration. 01:17.266 --> 01:21.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If the voter doesn't respond, and then doesn't vote for another four years, the voter is 01:21.933 --> 01:26.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% removed from the voting rolls without further notice, whether the voter has moved or not. 01:28.866 --> 01:32.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% More than 4.6 million of those mailers have been sent to voters since 2011, the year Helle 01:32.833 --> 01:34.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% found out he was removed. 01:34.900 --> 01:39.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% At least hundreds of thousands of voters have been removed, but it's unclear exactly how 01:39.300 --> 01:41.366 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% many. 01:41.366 --> 01:45.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Republican Secretary of State Jon Husted says the two-year window and the mailers are part 01:47.233 --> 01:50.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% of the state's legal obligation to remove the names of dead, imprisoned or otherwise 01:51.233 --> 01:53.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% ineligible voters. 01:53.333 --> 01:55.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JON HUSTED (R), Ohio Secretary of State: It's trying to say to the voter, gee, have you 01:55.700 --> 01:56.933 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% moved? 01:56.933 --> 01:59.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Do you want to update your information? 01:59.033 --> 02:03.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It's done to try to be helpful to the voter, and helping them update their information, 02:05.433 --> 02:08.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% and also to make sure that we maintain the voter rolls, which is another piece of the 02:08.900 --> 02:11.033 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% law. 02:11.033 --> 02:14.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So, you have, in the end, a six-year period to interact, to vote, to let us know that 02:16.366 --> 02:18.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you still want to be on the voter rolls. 02:18.500 --> 02:22.866 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% KAREN KASLER: But those challenging the process say voting is not a use-it-or-lose-it right, 02:24.800 --> 02:27.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% and that voters choose not to cast ballots because of illness, apathy, or other reasons, 02:29.066 --> 02:31.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and not just because they have moved. 02:31.166 --> 02:35.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% FREDA LEVENSON, Legal Director, ACLU of Ohio: Failing to vote is a very poor proxy for someone 02:35.000 --> 02:37.166 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% moving. 02:37.166 --> 02:41.800 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% Close to 50 percent of Ohioans don't vote in every given election. 02:41.800 --> 02:44.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But not close to 50 percent of Ohioans have moved. 02:44.833 --> 02:47.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The number is much closer to 2 percent. 02:47.833 --> 02:52.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So the secretary is purging vast numbers of completely eligible voters just to try to 02:54.300 --> 02:58.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% target a small, tiny handful of people who may have moved. 02:58.033 --> 03:02.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% KAREN KASLER: But Husted says this method of voter roll maintenance has been in place 03:02.333 --> 03:07.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Ohio since 1994, with virtually no problems, until the lawsuit was filed in 2016. 03:09.833 --> 03:13.166 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% JON HUSTED: This process has worked very well in Ohio under Democratic and Republican administrations. 03:14.633 --> 03:19.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Nobody in Ohio has expressed problems with this. 03:19.433 --> 03:23.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It's only out-of-state folks who seem to have trouble with how to we are implementing the 03:23.066 --> 03:25.033 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% laws in Ohio. 03:25.033 --> 03:28.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% KAREN KASLER: But the plaintiffs challenging the state, led by the AFL-CIO-affiliated A. 03:28.800 --> 03:33.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Philip Randolph Institute, say they're doing so on behalf of Ohioans like Larry Harmon. 03:35.733 --> 03:39.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The Northeast Ohio man is featured in a video produced by the ACLU, another plaintiff in 03:39.066 --> 03:41.033 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% the case. 03:41.033 --> 03:45.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Harmon says that after several years of not voting, he discovered he'd been removed in 03:45.700 --> 03:47.766 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% 2015. 03:47.766 --> 03:51.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% That was the same year that many Ohioans who registered in 2008, when Barack Obama won 03:52.700 --> 03:55.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the state, also found they had been erased from the rolls. 03:55.266 --> 04:00.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The plaintiffs won an appeals court ruling that resulted in more than 7,500 ballots cast 04:02.300 --> 04:05.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% by voters who'd been removed must be counted in the 2016 presidential election. 04:07.300 --> 04:10.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Last August, the Justice Department under President Trump reversed the position it had 04:10.766 --> 04:15.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% taken under President Obama, and filed a brief to support the state of Ohio's case. 04:18.166 --> 04:20.466 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% Seven states use a process similar to Ohio's, so potentially millions of voters around the 04:20.466 --> 04:22.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% country will be affected by the court's decision. 04:22.466 --> 04:26.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Karen Kasler in Columbus, Ohio. 04:26.533 --> 04:30.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: Marcia Coyle covers the high court for "The National Law Journal," and 04:30.533 --> 04:35.266 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% she was in the courtroom, as always, as the justices grappled with this potentially far-reaching 04:35.266 --> 04:36.766 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% dispute. 04:36.766 --> 04:39.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Marcia, so, start with the argument against Ohio's law. 04:39.833 --> 04:42.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% How was it made in court today? 04:42.300 --> 04:44.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% What were they looking -- what laws were they looking at? 04:44.333 --> 04:46.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARCIA COYLE, "The National Law Journal": OK, really, there are two laws that are at 04:46.800 --> 04:51.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% the heart of the dispute here, the National Voter Registration Act and the Help America 04:52.933 --> 04:56.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Vote Act, which followed the national act. 04:56.033 --> 05:01.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Both were designed and intended by Congress to make voting easy and accessible. 05:03.000 --> 05:06.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The challengers to Ohio's system represented by Paul Smith today argued basically the same 05:08.400 --> 05:11.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% argument that they had won in the lower court. 05:11.366 --> 05:12.833 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Ohio is... 05:12.833 --> 05:13.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: They were the winning argument, right? 05:13.866 --> 05:15.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: Absolutely. 05:15.966 --> 05:19.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Ohio is going wrong with its system for removing voters from its registration rolls. 05:21.800 --> 05:23.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: So what kind of reception did they get from the justices? 05:23.900 --> 05:28.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: Well, I would say the justices seem divided, but you never can really tell 05:29.633 --> 05:31.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% what's going on until the decision comes out. 05:31.300 --> 05:34.133 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% JEFFREY BROWN: To say that they're divided is not a surprise, right? 05:34.133 --> 05:35.133 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% But go ahead. 05:35.133 --> 05:36.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: That's right. 05:36.366 --> 05:37.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's also the safe prediction, too. 05:37.300 --> 05:39.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% JEFFREY BROWN: Yes. 05:39.366 --> 05:43.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: Justices Kennedy and Breyer, for example, they spoke to the concern that 05:45.066 --> 05:49.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% states have about maintaining the integrity of voter registration rolls. 05:51.033 --> 05:53.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That is something that states have to do. 05:53.166 --> 05:57.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Justice Breyer, for example, said, well, if you can't use the fact that a voter hasn't 05:57.400 --> 06:01.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% voted in two years to send out these notices, what can you do? 06:01.366 --> 06:02.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% JEFFREY BROWN: Yes. 06:02.633 --> 06:04.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So, they're in essence supporting the Ohio... 06:04.466 --> 06:05.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 06:05.700 --> 06:07.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MARCIA COYLE: Well, it sound that way. 06:07.200 --> 06:10.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They're raising one of the major concerns here of Ohio. 06:10.166 --> 06:15.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And Mr. Smith said, well, Ohio is really only one of eight states that uses the process 06:15.633 --> 06:16.566 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% it uses. 06:16.566 --> 06:17.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's the most aggressive. 06:17.500 --> 06:19.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% There are other ways. 06:19.433 --> 06:23.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I learned through this case that there is a national change of address database that 06:25.366 --> 06:30.333 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% keeps track of changes of address that are sent to postal offices. 06:30.333 --> 06:35.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And he said states can compare their registration addresses with that database. 06:35.066 --> 06:39.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So, there was this concern about, how can states maintain integrity? 06:39.366 --> 06:42.000 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% JEFFREY BROWN: And where did the challengers get their support from? 06:42.000 --> 06:45.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: Justices Sotomayor and Kagan, for example. 06:45.366 --> 06:50.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Justice Sotomayor is concerned about what she said appears to be the disproportionate 06:52.700 --> 06:55.766 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% impact of Ohio's process on cities and neighborhoods that have a high percentage of low-income 06:58.433 --> 07:03.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% workers, who work odd shifts, have difficulty getting to the polls, and also on minorities. 07:05.566 --> 07:08.833 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% She pointed out there have been a number of new voter restrictions put in place by states 07:09.700 --> 07:12.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that create even more obstacles. 07:12.200 --> 07:17.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Justice Kagan looked at Ohio's argument that, no, it's not the trigger, the two-year trigger, 07:18.200 --> 07:20.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that removes voters. 07:20.166 --> 07:24.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It's the failure to respond to our confirmation notice that removes voters. 07:26.666 --> 07:29.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% She looked at it and said, what it looks like to me like is, failure to vote, failure to 07:29.633 --> 07:31.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% respond, failure to vote. 07:31.600 --> 07:34.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% JEFFREY BROWN: Yes. 07:34.100 --> 07:36.933 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: And she didn't quite agree that it was the cause of the removal, was the confirmation 07:36.933 --> 07:39.000 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% notice. 07:39.000 --> 07:40.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: So, briefly, there's a lot on the docket for the court this year, this 07:40.966 --> 07:42.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% term, over voting rights and redistricting. 07:42.633 --> 07:44.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: Yes, there is. 07:44.766 --> 07:46.800 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% JEFFREY BROWN: But the implication -- political implications perhaps of this particular case? 07:46.800 --> 07:51.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: Well, as you probably know, Ohio is often a battleground state... 07:52.566 --> 07:53.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: I do, yes. 07:53.833 --> 07:55.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MARCIA COYLE: ... in national elections. 07:55.833 --> 07:58.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So, the number of voters who are purged from the rolls could make a difference in a close 07:59.400 --> 08:00.400 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% election. 08:00.400 --> 08:01.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So it's being closely watched. 08:01.600 --> 08:03.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And you're right. 08:03.066 --> 08:05.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The court has two partisan gerrymandering cases. 08:05.766 --> 08:10.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It may well see another partisan gerrymandering case out of North Carolina. 08:10.466 --> 08:15.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It continues to get racial gerrymandering cases, voter I.D. 08:15.066 --> 08:19.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The whole election landscape is alive right now with these types of cases. 08:19.266 --> 08:21.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: All right, this is all to be continued. 08:21.233 --> 08:22.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Marcia Coyle, thank you, as always. 08:22.233 --> 08:22.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: My pleasure, Jeff.