1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: The Supreme Court heard arguments today in a case challenging the removal of 2 00:00:05,333 --> 00:00:09,533 hundreds of thousands of people from voter rolls in Ohio. 3 00:00:09,533 --> 00:00:14,033 In a moment, Jeffrey Brown will talk to Marcia Coyle of "The National Law Journal" about 4 00:00:14,033 --> 00:00:17,333 the questions the justices asked inside the court. 5 00:00:17,333 --> 00:00:22,333 But we begin with a report from Karen Kasler of PBS' Ohio station ideastream about what's 6 00:00:23,766 --> 00:00:25,833 at stake in the Buckeye State. 7 00:00:25,833 --> 00:00:30,566 KAREN KASLER: U.S. Army Sergeant Joseph Helle was in Iraq in 2006 and 2007, and in Afghanistan 8 00:00:32,166 --> 00:00:33,933 in 2009. 9 00:00:33,933 --> 00:00:38,500 But when he came home to Ohio in 2011, he found a battle he didn't expect. 10 00:00:38,500 --> 00:00:42,933 Helle showed up to vote that fall, and found his name had been removed from the voter rolls. 11 00:00:42,933 --> 00:00:44,933 JOSEPH HELLE, Mayor of Oak Harbor, Ohio: I started crying. 12 00:00:44,933 --> 00:00:48,700 It was heartbreaking to be told that one of those fundamental rights that I put my put 13 00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:53,333 my life on the line for, raised my right hand for, that I wasn't allowed to exercise it. 14 00:00:53,333 --> 00:00:56,700 And I was protecting it for others, but others weren't able to protect it for me. 15 00:00:56,700 --> 00:01:01,166 KAREN KASLER: Helle, who is now the mayor of Oak Harbor, a small village near Toledo, 16 00:01:01,166 --> 00:01:06,166 has joined the coalition of mostly progressive-leaning groups opposing the two-pronged approach Ohio 17 00:01:07,333 --> 00:01:09,366 has to maintaining its voter rolls. 18 00:01:09,366 --> 00:01:14,100 If a voter doesn't cast a ballot for two years, a postcard or mailer is sent to the address 19 00:01:15,166 --> 00:01:17,266 listed on the voter's registration. 20 00:01:17,266 --> 00:01:21,933 If the voter doesn't respond, and then doesn't vote for another four years, the voter is 21 00:01:21,933 --> 00:01:26,933 removed from the voting rolls without further notice, whether the voter has moved or not. 22 00:01:28,866 --> 00:01:32,833 More than 4.6 million of those mailers have been sent to voters since 2011, the year Helle 23 00:01:32,833 --> 00:01:34,900 found out he was removed. 24 00:01:34,900 --> 00:01:39,300 At least hundreds of thousands of voters have been removed, but it's unclear exactly how 25 00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:41,366 many. 26 00:01:41,366 --> 00:01:45,333 Republican Secretary of State Jon Husted says the two-year window and the mailers are part 27 00:01:47,233 --> 00:01:50,466 of the state's legal obligation to remove the names of dead, imprisoned or otherwise 28 00:01:51,233 --> 00:01:53,333 ineligible voters. 29 00:01:53,333 --> 00:01:55,700 JON HUSTED (R), Ohio Secretary of State: It's trying to say to the voter, gee, have you 30 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:56,933 moved? 31 00:01:56,933 --> 00:01:59,033 Do you want to update your information? 32 00:01:59,033 --> 00:02:03,466 It's done to try to be helpful to the voter, and helping them update their information, 33 00:02:05,433 --> 00:02:08,900 and also to make sure that we maintain the voter rolls, which is another piece of the 34 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:11,033 law. 35 00:02:11,033 --> 00:02:14,900 So, you have, in the end, a six-year period to interact, to vote, to let us know that 36 00:02:16,366 --> 00:02:18,500 you still want to be on the voter rolls. 37 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:22,866 KAREN KASLER: But those challenging the process say voting is not a use-it-or-lose-it right, 38 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,933 and that voters choose not to cast ballots because of illness, apathy, or other reasons, 39 00:02:29,066 --> 00:02:31,166 and not just because they have moved. 40 00:02:31,166 --> 00:02:35,000 FREDA LEVENSON, Legal Director, ACLU of Ohio: Failing to vote is a very poor proxy for someone 41 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,166 moving. 42 00:02:37,166 --> 00:02:41,800 Close to 50 percent of Ohioans don't vote in every given election. 43 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,833 But not close to 50 percent of Ohioans have moved. 44 00:02:44,833 --> 00:02:47,833 The number is much closer to 2 percent. 45 00:02:47,833 --> 00:02:52,833 So the secretary is purging vast numbers of completely eligible voters just to try to 46 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:58,033 target a small, tiny handful of people who may have moved. 47 00:02:58,033 --> 00:03:02,333 KAREN KASLER: But Husted says this method of voter roll maintenance has been in place 48 00:03:02,333 --> 00:03:07,333 Ohio since 1994, with virtually no problems, until the lawsuit was filed in 2016. 49 00:03:09,833 --> 00:03:13,166 JON HUSTED: This process has worked very well in Ohio under Democratic and Republican administrations. 50 00:03:14,633 --> 00:03:19,433 Nobody in Ohio has expressed problems with this. 51 00:03:19,433 --> 00:03:23,066 It's only out-of-state folks who seem to have trouble with how to we are implementing the 52 00:03:23,066 --> 00:03:25,033 laws in Ohio. 53 00:03:25,033 --> 00:03:28,800 KAREN KASLER: But the plaintiffs challenging the state, led by the AFL-CIO-affiliated A. 54 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,800 Philip Randolph Institute, say they're doing so on behalf of Ohioans like Larry Harmon. 55 00:03:35,733 --> 00:03:39,066 The Northeast Ohio man is featured in a video produced by the ACLU, another plaintiff in 56 00:03:39,066 --> 00:03:41,033 the case. 57 00:03:41,033 --> 00:03:45,233 Harmon says that after several years of not voting, he discovered he'd been removed in 58 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:47,766 2015. 59 00:03:47,766 --> 00:03:51,266 That was the same year that many Ohioans who registered in 2008, when Barack Obama won 60 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:55,266 the state, also found they had been erased from the rolls. 61 00:03:55,266 --> 00:04:00,333 The plaintiffs won an appeals court ruling that resulted in more than 7,500 ballots cast 62 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:05,433 by voters who'd been removed must be counted in the 2016 presidential election. 63 00:04:07,300 --> 00:04:10,766 Last August, the Justice Department under President Trump reversed the position it had 64 00:04:10,766 --> 00:04:15,766 taken under President Obama, and filed a brief to support the state of Ohio's case. 65 00:04:18,166 --> 00:04:20,466 Seven states use a process similar to Ohio's, so potentially millions of voters around the 66 00:04:20,466 --> 00:04:22,466 country will be affected by the court's decision. 67 00:04:22,466 --> 00:04:26,533 For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Karen Kasler in Columbus, Ohio. 68 00:04:26,533 --> 00:04:30,533 JEFFREY BROWN: Marcia Coyle covers the high court for "The National Law Journal," and 69 00:04:30,533 --> 00:04:35,266 she was in the courtroom, as always, as the justices grappled with this potentially far-reaching 70 00:04:35,266 --> 00:04:36,766 dispute. 71 00:04:36,766 --> 00:04:39,833 Marcia, so, start with the argument against Ohio's law. 72 00:04:39,833 --> 00:04:42,300 How was it made in court today? 73 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:44,333 What were they looking -- what laws were they looking at? 74 00:04:44,333 --> 00:04:46,800 MARCIA COYLE, "The National Law Journal": OK, really, there are two laws that are at 75 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,800 the heart of the dispute here, the National Voter Registration Act and the Help America 76 00:04:52,933 --> 00:04:56,033 Vote Act, which followed the national act. 77 00:04:56,033 --> 00:05:01,033 Both were designed and intended by Congress to make voting easy and accessible. 78 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,533 The challengers to Ohio's system represented by Paul Smith today argued basically the same 79 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,366 argument that they had won in the lower court. 80 00:05:11,366 --> 00:05:12,833 Ohio is... 81 00:05:12,833 --> 00:05:13,866 JEFFREY BROWN: They were the winning argument, right? 82 00:05:13,866 --> 00:05:15,966 MARCIA COYLE: Absolutely. 83 00:05:15,966 --> 00:05:19,866 Ohio is going wrong with its system for removing voters from its registration rolls. 84 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,900 JEFFREY BROWN: So what kind of reception did they get from the justices? 85 00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:28,466 MARCIA COYLE: Well, I would say the justices seem divided, but you never can really tell 86 00:05:29,633 --> 00:05:31,300 what's going on until the decision comes out. 87 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:34,133 JEFFREY BROWN: To say that they're divided is not a surprise, right? 88 00:05:34,133 --> 00:05:35,133 But go ahead. 89 00:05:35,133 --> 00:05:36,366 MARCIA COYLE: That's right. 90 00:05:36,366 --> 00:05:37,300 It's also the safe prediction, too. 91 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:39,366 JEFFREY BROWN: Yes. 92 00:05:39,366 --> 00:05:43,300 MARCIA COYLE: Justices Kennedy and Breyer, for example, they spoke to the concern that 93 00:05:45,066 --> 00:05:49,900 states have about maintaining the integrity of voter registration rolls. 94 00:05:51,033 --> 00:05:53,166 That is something that states have to do. 95 00:05:53,166 --> 00:05:57,400 Justice Breyer, for example, said, well, if you can't use the fact that a voter hasn't 96 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,366 voted in two years to send out these notices, what can you do? 97 00:06:01,366 --> 00:06:02,633 JEFFREY BROWN: Yes. 98 00:06:02,633 --> 00:06:04,466 So, they're in essence supporting the Ohio... 99 00:06:04,466 --> 00:06:05,700 (CROSSTALK) 100 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:07,200 MARCIA COYLE: Well, it sound that way. 101 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,166 They're raising one of the major concerns here of Ohio. 102 00:06:10,166 --> 00:06:15,166 And Mr. Smith said, well, Ohio is really only one of eight states that uses the process 103 00:06:15,633 --> 00:06:16,566 it uses. 104 00:06:16,566 --> 00:06:17,500 It's the most aggressive. 105 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:19,433 There are other ways. 106 00:06:19,433 --> 00:06:23,800 I learned through this case that there is a national change of address database that 107 00:06:25,366 --> 00:06:30,333 keeps track of changes of address that are sent to postal offices. 108 00:06:30,333 --> 00:06:35,066 And he said states can compare their registration addresses with that database. 109 00:06:35,066 --> 00:06:39,366 So, there was this concern about, how can states maintain integrity? 110 00:06:39,366 --> 00:06:42,000 JEFFREY BROWN: And where did the challengers get their support from? 111 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,366 MARCIA COYLE: Justices Sotomayor and Kagan, for example. 112 00:06:45,366 --> 00:06:50,366 Justice Sotomayor is concerned about what she said appears to be the disproportionate 113 00:06:52,700 --> 00:06:55,766 impact of Ohio's process on cities and neighborhoods that have a high percentage of low-income 114 00:06:58,433 --> 00:07:03,433 workers, who work odd shifts, have difficulty getting to the polls, and also on minorities. 115 00:07:05,566 --> 00:07:08,833 She pointed out there have been a number of new voter restrictions put in place by states 116 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:12,200 that create even more obstacles. 117 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:17,200 Justice Kagan looked at Ohio's argument that, no, it's not the trigger, the two-year trigger, 118 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,166 that removes voters. 119 00:07:20,166 --> 00:07:24,733 It's the failure to respond to our confirmation notice that removes voters. 120 00:07:26,666 --> 00:07:29,633 She looked at it and said, what it looks like to me like is, failure to vote, failure to 121 00:07:29,633 --> 00:07:31,600 respond, failure to vote. 122 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,100 JEFFREY BROWN: Yes. 123 00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:36,933 MARCIA COYLE: And she didn't quite agree that it was the cause of the removal, was the confirmation 124 00:07:36,933 --> 00:07:39,000 notice. 125 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,966 JEFFREY BROWN: So, briefly, there's a lot on the docket for the court this year, this 126 00:07:40,966 --> 00:07:42,633 term, over voting rights and redistricting. 127 00:07:42,633 --> 00:07:44,766 MARCIA COYLE: Yes, there is. 128 00:07:44,766 --> 00:07:46,800 JEFFREY BROWN: But the implication -- political implications perhaps of this particular case? 129 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,700 MARCIA COYLE: Well, as you probably know, Ohio is often a battleground state... 130 00:07:52,566 --> 00:07:53,833 JEFFREY BROWN: I do, yes. 131 00:07:53,833 --> 00:07:55,833 MARCIA COYLE: ... in national elections. 132 00:07:55,833 --> 00:07:58,800 So, the number of voters who are purged from the rolls could make a difference in a close 133 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,400 election. 134 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,600 So it's being closely watched. 135 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,066 And you're right. 136 00:08:03,066 --> 00:08:05,766 The court has two partisan gerrymandering cases. 137 00:08:05,766 --> 00:08:10,466 It may well see another partisan gerrymandering case out of North Carolina. 138 00:08:10,466 --> 00:08:15,066 It continues to get racial gerrymandering cases, voter I.D. 139 00:08:15,066 --> 00:08:19,266 The whole election landscape is alive right now with these types of cases. 140 00:08:19,266 --> 00:08:21,233 JEFFREY BROWN: All right, this is all to be continued. 141 00:08:21,233 --> 00:08:22,233 Marcia Coyle, thank you, as always. 142 00:08:22,233 --> 00:08:22,766 MARCIA COYLE: My pleasure, Jeff.