1 00:00:01,466 --> 00:00:03,566 AMNA NAWAZ: When Congressman Will Hurd announced in 2019 2 00:00:03,566 --> 00:00:08,133 he would not seek reelection in his competitive border district, he was the House Republicans' 3 00:00:08,133 --> 00:00:13,133 only Black member and one of the few in his party to openly criticize then-President Donald Trump. 4 00:00:15,133 --> 00:00:18,733 Now the former congressman says it's time for a total overhaul of America's political system. 5 00:00:20,366 --> 00:00:23,433 Will Hurd sat down with Judy Woodruff recently to discuss his new book, 6 00:00:23,433 --> 00:00:27,100 "American Reboot: An Idealist's Guide to Getting Big Things Done." 7 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:29,500 JUDY WOODRUFF: Former Congressman Will Hurd, 8 00:00:29,500 --> 00:00:33,366 thank you very much for joining us. And congratulations on the book. 9 00:00:33,366 --> 00:00:37,866 There's so much to ask you about, but I do want to start with immigration. On Friday, the Biden 10 00:00:37,866 --> 00:00:42,833 administration announced that it's rescinding what's called Title 42. This was the edict that 11 00:00:44,766 --> 00:00:49,066 migrants could not apply for legal asylum. They're rolling that back. 12 00:00:49,066 --> 00:00:50,333 Was that the right move? 13 00:00:50,333 --> 00:00:52,433 FMR. REP. WILL HURD (R-TX): It wasn't. 14 00:00:52,433 --> 00:00:55,866 What's happening at the border right now is the worst -- the border the worse it's ever been. 15 00:00:55,866 --> 00:00:59,666 And it truly is a crisis. And this is being fueled 16 00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:04,800 by a number of factors. But there's things that we can be doing. We also can't treat 17 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,800 everybody as if they're an asylum seeker. Coming to the United States to seek asylum 18 00:01:11,833 --> 00:01:15,033 because you're looking for a better-paying job is not a reason to apply for asylum. 19 00:01:15,033 --> 00:01:19,333 And so the fact that this started in the last administration and continued under 20 00:01:19,333 --> 00:01:23,033 this administration, this is not a best practice. 21 00:01:23,033 --> 00:01:28,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: I want to ask you about Ukraine. You're a former CIA officer. So much heartache 22 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:33,733 right now and commentary about what the U.S. and other countries should be doing or not doing. 23 00:01:35,633 --> 00:01:39,266 At this point, under this administration, just this year, the United States has spent 24 00:01:39,266 --> 00:01:44,266 $14.5 billion to help the Ukrainians through security assistance, humanitarian assistance. 25 00:01:47,766 --> 00:01:52,166 What more should, could the U.S. and American citizens be doing? 26 00:01:52,166 --> 00:01:54,200 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: I think oftentimes, we look 27 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,800 at top-line numbers, but we need to be looking at the things that we're actually giving. 28 00:02:00,766 --> 00:02:04,300 I have been connected with the national security community for over two decades. 29 00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:08,533 And one of the things I learned, whether it was my time in back alleys of dangerous 30 00:02:08,533 --> 00:02:13,533 places as an undercover officer in the CIA, or working in Congress on the Intelligence Committee, 31 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,933 we should have a very simple policy: Your friends should love you, and your enemies should fear you. 32 00:02:18,933 --> 00:02:23,933 This is a principle I talk about in the book. When President Zelenskyy is saying, I need more help, 33 00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:28,066 my country needs more help, and here are some of the things you can do, 34 00:02:28,066 --> 00:02:31,833 I think we should listen to him. We should be giving them the kinds of tools 35 00:02:31,833 --> 00:02:36,833 that they need in order to bring a true end to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. 36 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,200 The longer this goes on, the bigger the impact is going to be on Eastern Europe. 37 00:02:44,133 --> 00:02:46,633 JUDY WOODRUFF: Let's talk about your book. You want a complete reboot, 38 00:02:46,633 --> 00:02:50,566 as the title says, of America -- the American political system. 39 00:02:50,566 --> 00:02:54,566 You talk about how what we have now is not healthy. You talk about a country 40 00:02:54,566 --> 00:02:57,433 in decline. In a nutshell - - and there's a lot here 41 00:02:59,433 --> 00:03:02,933 for people to take a look at. But, in a nutshell, what is wrong with the system right now? 42 00:03:02,933 --> 00:03:04,433 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: I think, in a nutshell, 43 00:03:04,433 --> 00:03:07,100 what's wrong with the system is that we have elected officials 44 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:12,100 that are appealing to the edges and the extreme edges of the party, not the middle. 45 00:03:13,466 --> 00:03:17,933 That's driven by how a districts are designed. And you have 46 00:03:19,966 --> 00:03:23,200 too many leaders on both sides of the political divide that are more interested in fearmongering 47 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,333 than trying to inspire. I saw it when I was in Congress, when I was a Black 48 00:03:27,333 --> 00:03:32,333 Republican representing a 71 percent Latino district. Nobody thought I ever had a chance. 49 00:03:34,766 --> 00:03:37,433 When I won,everybody said there's no way this guy is getting reelected. And I continued to 50 00:03:37,433 --> 00:03:42,433 do it. Why? Because I showed up to places, and I realized eyes that way more unites us as a country 51 00:03:44,500 --> 00:03:48,066 than divides us. And when you focus on those things, you can actually get big things done. 52 00:03:48,066 --> 00:03:52,466 JUDY WOODRUFF: You have plenty of criticism in the book of former President Trump. 53 00:03:52,466 --> 00:03:55,900 And you have said that you think his influence is waning 54 00:03:57,966 --> 00:04:00,100 in the Republican Party. And yet -- and we know some of the candidates he's backing 55 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:05,000 are not ahead in their races, but most of them are embracing some form of Trumpism. 56 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,600 How do you work with that? 57 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,733 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Sure, but I can also give you a list of 58 00:04:09,733 --> 00:04:13,833 candidates that won despite not having Donald Trump's support. 59 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:18,066 And you can look at -- let's look at Alabama. Everybody thought Mo Brooks 60 00:04:18,066 --> 00:04:22,533 was going to be the candidate, and that was because of Donald Trump's support. 61 00:04:22,533 --> 00:04:27,533 So I'm not saying that he doesn't have support and there isn't a group, but that that influence 62 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,066 is waning, what I would consider more the authoritarian wing of the Republican Party. 63 00:04:35,133 --> 00:04:38,333 But you have enough examples to say that this is not a lock and that this is the only way to win 64 00:04:40,533 --> 00:04:45,200 is by embracing that authoritarianism. Republicans are taking the House back in 65 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,333 2022. It's almost a fait accompli, likely to take back the Senate. 66 00:04:49,333 --> 00:04:53,433 And the way we do that really matters. And what I'm talking about is not just how you 67 00:04:53,433 --> 00:04:58,433 win elections, but it's also about how you should govern, because this pendulum that keeps swing 68 00:05:00,933 --> 00:05:03,900 back in every election cycle, that's not -- that's not good and that's not healthy for the country. 69 00:05:03,900 --> 00:05:05,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let me ask you that two 70 00:05:05,933 --> 00:05:10,733 issues that have been raised in campaigns, where Republicans are running, and running well. 71 00:05:12,733 --> 00:05:14,933 One of them is Critical Race Theory. Do you think that should be an issue 72 00:05:14,933 --> 00:05:17,500 in these congressional and Senate races? 73 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:21,700 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Look, it's simple. Slavery happened. It influenced the country, right? Jim 74 00:05:23,666 --> 00:05:27,900 Crow happened. It influenced the country. My dad's Black. My mom's white. They live in the 75 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:32,900 house that they live in now because it was the only place that they were allowed to buy a home. 76 00:05:34,833 --> 00:05:39,066 That meant me, my brother, and my sister can only go into -- go to certain schools. 77 00:05:40,966 --> 00:05:45,500 We should talk about our history, warts and all. But the way you talk about it matters. 78 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:50,300 JUDY WOODRUFF: And one other issue is, when Republican candidates are asked, 79 00:05:52,166 --> 00:05:56,033 did Joe Biden win the election, is he the legitimate president of the United States, 80 00:05:57,433 --> 00:05:58,966 many of them are ducking that. What should the answer be? 81 00:05:58,966 --> 00:06:02,300 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: The answer is, Joe Biden won the election, 82 00:06:02,300 --> 00:06:06,000 period, full stop, and it was lost by Donald Trump. 83 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,100 It was lost by Donald Trump because he was incapable 84 00:06:09,100 --> 00:06:11,900 of growing the Republican Party to different groups. 85 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:14,700 JUDY WOODRUFF: Two other quick questions, Will Hurd. 86 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:18,866 One is, for the first impeachment of former President Trump, you voted not 87 00:06:18,866 --> 00:06:23,866 to impeach him. You said the pressure that he was putting on the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr 88 00:06:26,366 --> 00:06:29,000 Zelenskyy, to dig up dirt on Joe Biden and his son was not illegal, while you disagreed with it. 89 00:06:30,466 --> 00:06:32,166 Do you today regret that, given... 90 00:06:32,166 --> 00:06:34,666 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: No. 91 00:06:34,666 --> 00:06:37,200 JUDY WOODRUFF: ... the commentary about the apparent signal that that sent, that people like 92 00:06:39,766 --> 00:06:44,500 Fiona Hill, who worked in the Trump White House, said emboldened Vladimir Putin to go into Ukraine? 93 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,033 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Well, do I -- would I have changed my decision? No. 94 00:06:51,033 --> 00:06:52,633 JUDY WOODRUFF: Right. FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Because my standard for 95 00:06:52,633 --> 00:06:56,400 impeachment was very simple. And it was a violation of the law. 96 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,400 And Adam Schiff was saying that this was extortion. And the preconditions for extortion 97 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,266 didn't exist in that phone call. There's a whole host of reasons of why Vladimir Putin 98 00:07:10,266 --> 00:07:13,800 decided to go into Ukraine at the time that he went into Ukraine. And that phone call, 99 00:07:15,766 --> 00:07:20,133 that issue, I think, was not the biggest decision that Vladimir Putin used to go in. 100 00:07:20,133 --> 00:07:21,633 JUDY WOODRUFF: Last thing. 101 00:07:21,633 --> 00:07:24,300 I know you say this is all about the issues and wanting 102 00:07:26,366 --> 00:07:29,200 to improve our political system. A number of your friends, though, say you are -- have thought 103 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:34,200 about, are thinking about running for president in 2024. Is that something that's in the cards? 104 00:07:35,633 --> 00:07:37,166 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Look, it's great that you write a really 105 00:07:37,166 --> 00:07:39,233 good book and everybody thinks you're running for president. 106 00:07:39,233 --> 00:07:43,833 And the reality is, I have been lucky to serve my country in different ways, 107 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:48,233 best career, being in the CIA, working on the most important 108 00:07:48,233 --> 00:07:53,233 issues. It was awesome representing people in Washington, D.C., when I was in Congress. 109 00:07:54,666 --> 00:07:56,400 If an opportunity comes from me to serve my country again, 110 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,700 I will evaluate it when that time comes. 111 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:01,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: The door's open. 112 00:08:01,333 --> 00:08:04,233 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Like I said, I will evaluate it when the opportunity potentially arises. 113 00:08:04,233 --> 00:08:06,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: Former Congressman Will Hurd. 114 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,500 The book is "American Reboot: An Idealist's Guide to Getting Big Things Done." 115 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:12,933 Thank you very much. 116 00:08:12,933 --> 00:08:15,800 FMR. REP. WILL HURD: It's always a pleasure to be with you.