AMNA NAWAZ: When Congressman
Will Hurd announced in 2019
he would not seek reelection in
his competitive border district,
he was the House Republicans'
only Black member and
one of the few in his
party to openly criticize
then-President Donald Trump.
Now the former congressman says
it's time for a total overhaul
of America's political system.
Will Hurd sat down with
Judy Woodruff recently
to discuss his new book,
"American Reboot: An
Idealist's Guide to
Getting Big Things Done."
JUDY WOODRUFF: Former
Congressman Will Hurd,
thank you very much
for joining us. And
congratulations on the book.
There's so much to ask you
about, but I do want to
start with immigration.
On Friday, the Biden
administration announced
that it's rescinding
what's called Title 42.
This was the edict that
migrants could not apply
for legal asylum. They're
rolling that back.
Was that the right move?
FMR. REP. WILL HURD
(R-TX): It wasn't.
What's happening at the border
right now is the worst -- the
border the worse it's ever been.
And it truly is a crisis.
And this is being fueled
by a number of factors. But
there's things that we can
be doing. We also can't treat
everybody as if they're an
asylum seeker. Coming to the
United States to seek asylum
because you're looking for
a better-paying job is not a
reason to apply for asylum.
And so the fact that
this started in the
last administration
and continued under
this administration, this
is not a best practice.
JUDY WOODRUFF: I want to ask you
about Ukraine. You're a former
CIA officer. So much heartache
right now and commentary
about what the U.S. and
other countries should
be doing or not doing.
At this point, under this
administration, just this year,
the United States has spent
$14.5 billion to help
the Ukrainians through
security assistance,
humanitarian assistance.
What more should, could the U.S.
and American citizens be doing?
FMR. REP. WILL HURD: I
think oftentimes, we look
at top-line numbers, but we
need to be looking at the things
that we're actually giving.
I have been connected with the
national security community
for over two decades.
And one of the things I
learned, whether it was my time
in back alleys of dangerous
places as an undercover
officer in the CIA, or
working in Congress on the
Intelligence Committee,
we should have a very
simple policy: Your friends
should love you, and your
enemies should fear you.
This is a principle I talk
about in the book. When
President Zelenskyy is
saying, I need more help,
my country needs more
help, and here are some
of the things you can do,
I think we should listen
to him. We should be giving
them the kinds of tools
that they need in order
to bring a true end to the
Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The longer this goes on, the
bigger the impact is going
to be on Eastern Europe.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Let's
talk about your book. You
want a complete reboot,
as the title says, of America --
the American political system.
You talk about how what we
have now is not healthy.
You talk about a country
in decline. In a nutshell
- - and there's a lot here
for people to take a look at.
But, in a nutshell, what is
wrong with the system right now?
FMR. REP. WILL HURD: I
think, in a nutshell,
what's wrong with the system is
that we have elected officials
that are appealing to the
edges and the extreme edges
of the party, not the middle.
That's driven by how a districts
are designed. And you have
too many leaders on both sides
of the political divide that are
more interested in fearmongering
than trying to inspire.
I saw it when I was in
Congress, when I was a Black
Republican representing a 71
percent Latino district. Nobody
thought I ever had a chance.
When I won,everybody said
there's no way this guy
is getting reelected.
And I continued to
do it. Why? Because I
showed up to places, and
I realized eyes that way
more unites us as a country
than divides us. And when you
focus on those things, you can
actually get big things done.
JUDY WOODRUFF: You have plenty
of criticism in the book
of former President Trump.
And you have said that you
think his influence is waning
in the Republican Party. And
yet -- and we know some of
the candidates he's backing
are not ahead in their races,
but most of them are embracing
some form of Trumpism.
How do you work with that?
FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Sure, but
I can also give you a list of
candidates that won despite not
having Donald Trump's support.
And you can look at --
let's look at Alabama.
Everybody thought Mo Brooks
was going to be the candidate,
and that was because of
Donald Trump's support.
So I'm not saying that
he doesn't have support
and there isn't a group,
but that that influence
is waning, what I would consider
more the authoritarian wing
of the Republican Party.
But you have enough examples to
say that this is not a lock and
that this is the only way to win
is by embracing that
authoritarianism. Republicans
are taking the House back in
2022. It's almost a
fait accompli, likely
to take back the Senate.
And the way we do that really
matters. And what I'm talking
about is not just how you
win elections, but it's
also about how you should
govern, because this
pendulum that keeps swing
back in every election
cycle, that's not -- that's
not good and that's not
healthy for the country.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well,
let me ask you that two
issues that have been raised
in campaigns, where Republicans
are running, and running well.
One of them is Critical
Race Theory. Do you think
that should be an issue
in these congressional
and Senate races?
FMR. REP. WILL HURD:
Look, it's simple. Slavery
happened. It influenced
the country, right? Jim
Crow happened. It influenced
the country. My dad's Black. My
mom's white. They live in the
house that they live in
now because it was the
only place that they were
allowed to buy a home.
That meant me, my brother,
and my sister can only go
into -- go to certain schools.
We should talk about our
history, warts and all. But the
way you talk about it matters.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And one other
issue is, when Republican
candidates are asked,
did Joe Biden win the election,
is he the legitimate president
of the United States,
many of them are ducking that.
What should the answer be?
FMR. REP. WILL HURD: The answer
is, Joe Biden won the election,
period, full stop, and it
was lost by Donald Trump.
It was lost by Donald Trump
because he was incapable
of growing the Republican
Party to different groups.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Two other
quick questions, Will Hurd.
One is, for the first
impeachment of former
President Trump, you voted not
to impeach him. You said
the pressure that he was
putting on the Ukrainian
president, Volodymyr
Zelenskyy, to dig up dirt
on Joe Biden and his son
was not illegal, while
you disagreed with it.
Do you today regret
that, given...
FMR. REP. WILL HURD: No.
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... the
commentary about the
apparent signal that that
sent, that people like
Fiona Hill, who worked
in the Trump White House,
said emboldened Vladimir
Putin to go into Ukraine?
FMR. REP. WILL HURD:
Well, do I -- would I have
changed my decision? No.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
FMR. REP. WILL HURD:
Because my standard for
impeachment was very simple. And
it was a violation of the law.
And Adam Schiff was saying that
this was extortion. And the
preconditions for extortion
didn't exist in that phone
call. There's a whole host of
reasons of why Vladimir Putin
decided to go into Ukraine
at the time that he went into
Ukraine. And that phone call,
that issue, I think, was not
the biggest decision that
Vladimir Putin used to go in.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Last thing.
I know you say this is all
about the issues and wanting
to improve our political
system. A number of your
friends, though, say
you are -- have thought
about, are thinking about
running for president in
2024. Is that something
that's in the cards?
FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Look, it's
great that you write a really
good book and everybody thinks
you're running for president.
And the reality is, I have
been lucky to serve my
country in different ways,
best career, being in the CIA,
working on the most important
issues. It was awesome
representing people
in Washington, D.C.,
when I was in Congress.
If an opportunity comes from
me to serve my country again,
I will evaluate it
when that time comes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The door's open.
FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Like
I said, I will evaluate
it when the opportunity
potentially arises.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Former
Congressman Will Hurd.
The book is "American Reboot:
An Idealist's Guide to
Getting Big Things Done."
Thank you very much.
FMR. REP. WILL HURD: It's always
a pleasure to be with you.