WEBVTT 00:01.466 --> 00:03.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: When Congressman Will Hurd announced in 2019 00:03.566 --> 00:08.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he would not seek reelection in his competitive border district, he was the House Republicans' 00:08.133 --> 00:13.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% only Black member and one of the few in his party to openly criticize then-President Donald Trump. 00:15.133 --> 00:18.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now the former congressman says it's time for a total overhaul of America's political system. 00:20.366 --> 00:23.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Will Hurd sat down with Judy Woodruff recently to discuss his new book, 00:23.433 --> 00:27.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% "American Reboot: An Idealist's Guide to Getting Big Things Done." 00:27.100 --> 00:29.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Former Congressman Will Hurd, 00:29.500 --> 00:33.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% thank you very much for joining us. And congratulations on the book. 00:33.366 --> 00:37.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% There's so much to ask you about, but I do want to start with immigration. On Friday, the Biden 00:37.866 --> 00:42.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% administration announced that it's rescinding what's called Title 42. This was the edict that 00:44.766 --> 00:49.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% migrants could not apply for legal asylum. They're rolling that back. 00:49.066 --> 00:50.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Was that the right move? 00:50.333 --> 00:52.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% FMR. REP. WILL HURD (R-TX): It wasn't. 00:52.433 --> 00:55.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What's happening at the border right now is the worst -- the border the worse it's ever been. 00:55.866 --> 00:59.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And it truly is a crisis. And this is being fueled 01:01.700 --> 01:04.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% by a number of factors. But there's things that we can be doing. We also can't treat 01:04.800 --> 01:09.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% everybody as if they're an asylum seeker. Coming to the United States to seek asylum 01:11.833 --> 01:15.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because you're looking for a better-paying job is not a reason to apply for asylum. 01:15.033 --> 01:19.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And so the fact that this started in the last administration and continued under 01:19.333 --> 01:23.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this administration, this is not a best practice. 01:23.033 --> 01:28.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: I want to ask you about Ukraine. You're a former CIA officer. So much heartache 01:30.100 --> 01:33.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% right now and commentary about what the U.S. and other countries should be doing or not doing. 01:35.633 --> 01:39.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% At this point, under this administration, just this year, the United States has spent 01:39.266 --> 01:44.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% $14.5 billion to help the Ukrainians through security assistance, humanitarian assistance. 01:47.766 --> 01:52.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% What more should, could the U.S. and American citizens be doing? 01:52.166 --> 01:54.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: I think oftentimes, we look 01:54.200 --> 01:58.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at top-line numbers, but we need to be looking at the things that we're actually giving. 02:00.766 --> 02:04.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I have been connected with the national security community for over two decades. 02:04.300 --> 02:08.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And one of the things I learned, whether it was my time in back alleys of dangerous 02:08.533 --> 02:13.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% places as an undercover officer in the CIA, or working in Congress on the Intelligence Committee, 02:16.000 --> 02:18.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% we should have a very simple policy: Your friends should love you, and your enemies should fear you. 02:18.933 --> 02:23.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% This is a principle I talk about in the book. When President Zelenskyy is saying, I need more help, 02:25.900 --> 02:28.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% my country needs more help, and here are some of the things you can do, 02:28.066 --> 02:31.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think we should listen to him. We should be giving them the kinds of tools 02:31.833 --> 02:36.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that they need in order to bring a true end to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. 02:38.800 --> 02:42.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The longer this goes on, the bigger the impact is going to be on Eastern Europe. 02:44.133 --> 02:46.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Let's talk about your book. You want a complete reboot, 02:46.633 --> 02:50.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as the title says, of America -- the American political system. 02:50.566 --> 02:54.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You talk about how what we have now is not healthy. You talk about a country 02:54.566 --> 02:57.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in decline. In a nutshell - - and there's a lot here 02:59.433 --> 03:02.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for people to take a look at. But, in a nutshell, what is wrong with the system right now? 03:02.933 --> 03:04.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: I think, in a nutshell, 03:04.433 --> 03:07.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what's wrong with the system is that we have elected officials 03:07.100 --> 03:12.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that are appealing to the edges and the extreme edges of the party, not the middle. 03:13.466 --> 03:17.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That's driven by how a districts are designed. And you have 03:19.966 --> 03:23.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% too many leaders on both sides of the political divide that are more interested in fearmongering 03:23.200 --> 03:27.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% than trying to inspire. I saw it when I was in Congress, when I was a Black 03:27.333 --> 03:32.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republican representing a 71 percent Latino district. Nobody thought I ever had a chance. 03:34.766 --> 03:37.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% When I won,everybody said there's no way this guy is getting reelected. And I continued to 03:37.433 --> 03:42.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% do it. Why? Because I showed up to places, and I realized eyes that way more unites us as a country 03:44.500 --> 03:48.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% than divides us. And when you focus on those things, you can actually get big things done. 03:48.066 --> 03:52.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: You have plenty of criticism in the book of former President Trump. 03:52.466 --> 03:55.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And you have said that you think his influence is waning 03:57.966 --> 04:00.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in the Republican Party. And yet -- and we know some of the candidates he's backing 04:00.100 --> 04:05.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are not ahead in their races, but most of them are embracing some form of Trumpism. 04:06.000 --> 04:07.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% How do you work with that? 04:07.600 --> 04:09.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Sure, but I can also give you a list of 04:09.733 --> 04:13.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% candidates that won despite not having Donald Trump's support. 04:15.700 --> 04:18.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And you can look at -- let's look at Alabama. Everybody thought Mo Brooks 04:18.066 --> 04:22.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% was going to be the candidate, and that was because of Donald Trump's support. 04:22.533 --> 04:27.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So I'm not saying that he doesn't have support and there isn't a group, but that that influence 04:29.400 --> 04:33.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is waning, what I would consider more the authoritarian wing of the Republican Party. 04:35.133 --> 04:38.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But you have enough examples to say that this is not a lock and that this is the only way to win 04:40.533 --> 04:45.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is by embracing that authoritarianism. Republicans are taking the House back in 04:45.200 --> 04:49.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% 2022. It's almost a fait accompli, likely to take back the Senate. 04:49.333 --> 04:53.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the way we do that really matters. And what I'm talking about is not just how you 04:53.433 --> 04:58.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% win elections, but it's also about how you should govern, because this pendulum that keeps swing 05:00.933 --> 05:03.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% back in every election cycle, that's not -- that's not good and that's not healthy for the country. 05:03.900 --> 05:05.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let me ask you that two 05:05.933 --> 05:10.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% issues that have been raised in campaigns, where Republicans are running, and running well. 05:12.733 --> 05:14.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% One of them is Critical Race Theory. Do you think that should be an issue 05:14.933 --> 05:17.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in these congressional and Senate races? 05:17.500 --> 05:21.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Look, it's simple. Slavery happened. It influenced the country, right? Jim 05:23.666 --> 05:27.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Crow happened. It influenced the country. My dad's Black. My mom's white. They live in the 05:27.900 --> 05:32.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% house that they live in now because it was the only place that they were allowed to buy a home. 05:34.833 --> 05:39.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% That meant me, my brother, and my sister can only go into -- go to certain schools. 05:40.966 --> 05:45.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We should talk about our history, warts and all. But the way you talk about it matters. 05:45.500 --> 05:50.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And one other issue is, when Republican candidates are asked, 05:52.166 --> 05:56.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% did Joe Biden win the election, is he the legitimate president of the United States, 05:57.433 --> 05:58.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% many of them are ducking that. What should the answer be? 05:58.966 --> 06:02.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: The answer is, Joe Biden won the election, 06:02.300 --> 06:06.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% period, full stop, and it was lost by Donald Trump. 06:06.000 --> 06:09.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It was lost by Donald Trump because he was incapable 06:09.100 --> 06:11.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of growing the Republican Party to different groups. 06:11.900 --> 06:14.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Two other quick questions, Will Hurd. 06:14.700 --> 06:18.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% One is, for the first impeachment of former President Trump, you voted not 06:18.866 --> 06:23.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to impeach him. You said the pressure that he was putting on the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr 06:26.366 --> 06:29.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Zelenskyy, to dig up dirt on Joe Biden and his son was not illegal, while you disagreed with it. 06:30.466 --> 06:32.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Do you today regret that, given... 06:32.166 --> 06:34.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: No. 06:34.666 --> 06:37.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: ... the commentary about the apparent signal that that sent, that people like 06:39.766 --> 06:44.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Fiona Hill, who worked in the Trump White House, said emboldened Vladimir Putin to go into Ukraine? 06:47.800 --> 06:51.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Well, do I -- would I have changed my decision? No. 06:51.033 --> 06:52.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Right. FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Because my standard for 06:52.633 --> 06:56.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% impeachment was very simple. And it was a violation of the law. 06:56.400 --> 07:01.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And Adam Schiff was saying that this was extortion. And the preconditions for extortion 07:03.400 --> 07:08.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% didn't exist in that phone call. There's a whole host of reasons of why Vladimir Putin 07:10.266 --> 07:13.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% decided to go into Ukraine at the time that he went into Ukraine. And that phone call, 07:15.766 --> 07:20.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that issue, I think, was not the biggest decision that Vladimir Putin used to go in. 07:20.133 --> 07:21.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Last thing. 07:21.633 --> 07:24.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I know you say this is all about the issues and wanting 07:26.366 --> 07:29.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to improve our political system. A number of your friends, though, say you are -- have thought 07:29.200 --> 07:34.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% about, are thinking about running for president in 2024. Is that something that's in the cards? 07:35.633 --> 07:37.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Look, it's great that you write a really 07:37.166 --> 07:39.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% good book and everybody thinks you're running for president. 07:39.233 --> 07:43.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the reality is, I have been lucky to serve my country in different ways, 07:45.300 --> 07:48.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% best career, being in the CIA, working on the most important 07:48.233 --> 07:53.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% issues. It was awesome representing people in Washington, D.C., when I was in Congress. 07:54.666 --> 07:56.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% If an opportunity comes from me to serve my country again, 07:56.400 --> 07:58.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I will evaluate it when that time comes. 07:58.700 --> 08:01.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: The door's open. 08:01.333 --> 08:04.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: Like I said, I will evaluate it when the opportunity potentially arises. 08:04.233 --> 08:06.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Former Congressman Will Hurd. 08:06.800 --> 08:11.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The book is "American Reboot: An Idealist's Guide to Getting Big Things Done." 08:11.500 --> 08:12.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Thank you very much. 08:12.933 --> 08:15.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FMR. REP. WILL HURD: It's always a pleasure to be with you.