WEBVTT 00:01.933 --> 00:04.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: As we have been reporting, there are a number of questions today about 00:04.000 --> 00:08.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% President Trump, how he stoked the mob at the Capitol, and whether he's a danger while 00:09.233 --> 00:11.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he continues to hold power. 00:11.300 --> 00:15.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Amna Nawaz now talks to a man who held a key role in the Trump administration on how he 00:16.700 --> 00:19.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% sees this moment and the road ahead -- Amna. 00:19.066 --> 00:21.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: That's right, Judy. 00:21.566 --> 00:25.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% For seven months, Kevin McAleenan served in President Trump's Cabinet as acting secretary 00:27.900 --> 00:31.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% of homeland security. He resigned from that post in October of 2019, is now the CEO of 00:32.200 --> 00:33.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Pangiam, a travel technology company. 00:33.600 --> 00:35.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And he joins me now. 00:35.700 --> 00:38.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Secretary McAleenan, welcome back to the "NewsHour." And thank you for making the time. 00:38.666 --> 00:43.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Let's start with the events that we have been reporting on and the world was watching yesterday. 00:43.100 --> 00:47.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As you were watching that unfold, rioters storm the capital, what was your reaction? 00:47.500 --> 00:50.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KEVIN MCALEENAN, Former Acting U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security: Well, I think I found, 00:50.566 --> 00:55.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% like most Americans, the situation just incredibly appalling, shocking, disgusting, to see an 00:58.066 --> 01:01.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% organized mob assault on one of our most central and core democratic processes, and temporarily 01:03.366 --> 01:05.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% successful assault. 01:05.633 --> 01:08.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Just very difficult, very hard to watch. 01:08.433 --> 01:13.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% At the same time, we -- I think we also should note that we saw our institutions hold. We 01:13.033 --> 01:18.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% saw our congressional leaders return to the Capitol to complete the process, to do their 01:20.000 --> 01:23.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% jobs throughout the night, and to count the votes and to certify the election victory 01:25.333 --> 01:28.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of president-elect Joe Biden and vice president-elect Kamala Harris. 01:28.133 --> 01:32.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% So, I think it's very important to see the whole scope of the day. 01:32.100 --> 01:36.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: When you look at what happened and how quickly it happened and how easily, 01:36.033 --> 01:39.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we saw from outside, those protesters breach the barriers, make their way up the Capitol, 01:39.933 --> 01:44.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a lot of people are wondering, where's the law enforcement? Where are the federal forces? 01:44.166 --> 01:46.733 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Where is DHS? 01:46.733 --> 01:49.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% We knew that people would be descending on the Capitol. We heard the words that the president 01:49.333 --> 01:53.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% had been delivering to them. Shouldn't there have been a more robust force there to meet 01:53.366 --> 01:55.933 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% that threat? 01:55.933 --> 01:58.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% KEVIN MCALEENAN: Yes, I think there are really important questions raised in the last segment. 01:58.600 --> 02:03.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I think Leader McConnell's point about a painstaking investigation on the institutional and planning 02:04.800 --> 02:06.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - - I want to focus on that word, the planning failure. 02:06.866 --> 02:11.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This is a really complicated jurisdictional environment for law enforcement in D.C., but 02:13.533 --> 02:17.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it's also one where we see incredible crowds, protests, marches, inauguration, State of 02:18.433 --> 02:23.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the Union, happen with security and very smoothly every year. 02:25.833 --> 02:28.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And that's due to great planning, due to leadership, one agency put in charge, and then coordination, 02:31.133 --> 02:33.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% so you have the support and the backup forces, a civil disturbance unit on call, a rapid-reaction 02:34.600 --> 02:36.600 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% force. 02:36.600 --> 02:40.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What I saw yesterday was, those elements were not in place. There had to be a failure of 02:40.500 --> 02:45.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% intelligence in terms of predicting that that group was going to be that size, and it was 02:47.500 --> 02:49.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% going to head toward the Capitol. But it was a very determined group that attacked the 02:49.666 --> 02:53.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Capitol from all sides, an incredibly challenging law enforcement situation. 02:53.066 --> 02:55.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, we should not lose sight of... 02:55.200 --> 02:57.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: But, Mr. Secretary, let me ask. Pardon the interruption. 02:57.833 --> 03:00.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Let me just ask you. When you talk about intelligence, what more intelligence do you think is necessary? 03:00.500 --> 03:04.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% These are groups who were talking about a revolution on social media for weeks. You 03:04.500 --> 03:08.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have seen previous protesters who followed the president's words and attacked statehouses 03:08.700 --> 03:10.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% during the lockdown in the pandemic. 03:10.933 --> 03:14.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Why shouldn't federal officials have expected that it would go the way it did? 03:14.533 --> 03:17.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KEVIN MCALEENAN: Yes, so my understanding from talking to former colleagues is, they 03:17.433 --> 03:22.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% were prepared for violence, violence between either the protesters who became rioters and 03:24.433 --> 03:28.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% counterprotesters, perhaps, throughout the city, as we have seen in prior weekends recently 03:30.100 --> 03:33.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in Washington, D.C., but not that organized approach on the Capitol. 03:33.066 --> 03:37.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Should they have predicted that? Probably. And I agree with you that you have to look 03:37.666 --> 03:42.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at the sources of organization online, what the groups are talking about. And some of 03:44.533 --> 03:47.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that rhetoric was very dangerous approaching this political rally that became a riot. 03:47.666 --> 03:49.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: You mentioned the rhetoric. 03:49.666 --> 03:52.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Do you think that President Trump is responsible for what happened yesterday? 03:52.200 --> 03:57.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KEVIN MCALEENAN: I think that his rhetoric created a dangerous situation, inviting that 03:59.133 --> 04:03.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% group to D.C., talking about going down to the Capitol. 04:03.200 --> 04:08.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% We have seen that in the past, where presidential words matter. We have heard leaders, president-elect 04:10.066 --> 04:13.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Biden, commentators of both parties, talk about the importance of communication from 04:13.300 --> 04:17.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that White House on what's acceptable and what's not. 04:17.166 --> 04:22.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, yes, after the fact, we have heard calls that violence is never acceptable by any protest 04:24.100 --> 04:27.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% movement exercising First Amendment rights. But when it becomes a riot, when it becomes 04:27.066 --> 04:30.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% an assault on a democratic process, it's obviously unacceptable. 04:30.733 --> 04:35.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I'm afraid rhetoric helped inspire it and create the circumstances that it arose 04:37.533 --> 04:39.600 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% from. 04:39.600 --> 04:42.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: But, if his words matter, if they inspired a riot, if it's an attack on our 04:42.233 --> 04:46.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% democratic process, is the president fit to serve? Do you think that his Cabinet should 04:46.066 --> 04:48.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% be taking steps to remove him? 04:48.166 --> 04:52.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KEVIN MCALEENAN: Well, I think the Constitution has processes defined for that in the 25th 04:54.566 --> 04:57.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Amendment. There's significant reporting, including on your show this evening, that 04:57.200 --> 05:01.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Cabinet members are actively considering that, in conversations with the Hill. 05:01.066 --> 05:02.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But I think the ultimate verdict was issued... 05:02.766 --> 05:04.766 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: And do you think they should move forward with that? 05:04.766 --> 05:07.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KEVIN MCALEENAN: Well, the ultimate verdict was issued by the American people in November. 05:07.100 --> 05:12.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it's less than 13 days away from being realized, and the transition now certain, 05:13.533 --> 05:16.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with the votes counted, to president-elect Biden. 05:16.033 --> 05:20.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I think the people in the chairs are best suited to make that decision based on the 05:20.066 --> 05:22.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% facts presented to them. 05:22.133 --> 05:25.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: I have to ask you. You have been very quiet since you have left. You haven't 05:25.966 --> 05:28.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% spoken out very often. 05:28.066 --> 05:31.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And during your tenure, the president often said things or tweeted things or took actions 05:31.666 --> 05:35.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that a lot of people said, why aren't people close to him speaking out? 05:35.600 --> 05:38.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Why are you speaking out right now? 05:38.033 --> 05:42.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% KEVIN MCALEENAN: I'm talking about these incidents because I think an assault on our democracy 05:43.300 --> 05:45.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% is simply beyond the pale. 05:45.466 --> 05:50.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As a career official coming up through the ranks, surprised to be offered a political 05:52.500 --> 05:56.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% appointment to lead an agency that I treasured at CBP and then at Department of Homeland 05:58.333 --> 06:01.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Security, to solve a crisis at the time, I was -- I was a civil servant. I considered 06:03.933 --> 06:05.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that you have to support and defend the Constitution. If you're asked to serve and you have the 06:05.900 --> 06:07.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ability to do so, you should try. 06:07.900 --> 06:12.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I wrestled with speaking out before and after I departed. I did resign due to concerns 06:14.766 --> 06:18.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% about the politicization of law enforcement and the dangers that presented to our institutions. 06:18.766 --> 06:21.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I made that decision 15 months ago. 06:21.866 --> 06:26.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But it's difficult now, seeing the potential long-term impact of a situation like yesterday, 06:28.866 --> 06:33.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to not come out and state how unacceptable it is and that there must be accountability 06:34.433 --> 06:36.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% across the board. 06:36.400 --> 06:40.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: That is former acting Secretary of Homeland Security Kevin McAleenan joining 06:40.700 --> 06:41.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% us tonight. 06:41.566 --> 06:42.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Thank you for your time. 06:42.566 --> 06:43.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% KEVIN MCALEENAN: Thank you.