JUDY WOODRUFF: As we have
been reporting, there are a
number of questions today about

President Trump, how he stoked
the mob at the Capitol, and
whether he's a danger while

he continues to hold power.

Amna Nawaz now talks to a man
who held a key role in the
Trump administration on how he

sees this moment and
the road ahead -- Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: That's right, Judy.

For seven months, Kevin
McAleenan served in
President Trump's Cabinet
as acting secretary

of homeland security.
He resigned from that
post in October of
2019, is now the CEO of

Pangiam, a travel
technology company.

And he joins me now.

Secretary McAleenan, welcome
back to the "NewsHour." And
thank you for making the time.

Let's start with the
events that we have been
reporting on and the world
was watching yesterday.

As you were watching that
unfold, rioters storm the
capital, what was your reaction?

KEVIN MCALEENAN, Former Acting
U.S. Secretary of Homeland
Security: Well, I think I found,

like most Americans, the
situation just incredibly
appalling, shocking,
disgusting, to see an

organized mob assault on
one of our most central
and core democratic
processes, and temporarily

successful assault.

Just very difficult,
very hard to watch.

At the same time, we -- I think
we also should note that we
saw our institutions hold. We

saw our congressional
leaders return to the
Capitol to complete the
process, to do their

jobs throughout the night,
and to count the votes and to
certify the election victory

of president-elect
Joe Biden and vice
president-elect Kamala Harris.

So, I think it's very
important to see the
whole scope of the day.

AMNA NAWAZ: When you look at
what happened and how quickly
it happened and how easily,

we saw from outside, those
protesters breach the barriers,
make their way up the Capitol,

a lot of people are wondering,
where's the law enforcement?
Where are the federal forces?

Where is DHS?

We knew that people would
be descending on the
Capitol. We heard the
words that the president

had been delivering to them.
Shouldn't there have been a
more robust force there to meet

that threat?

KEVIN MCALEENAN: Yes, I
think there are really
important questions raised
in the last segment.

I think Leader McConnell's
point about a painstaking
investigation on the
institutional and planning

- - I want to focus on that
word, the planning failure.

This is a really complicated
jurisdictional environment for
law enforcement in D.C., but

it's also one where we see
incredible crowds, protests,
marches, inauguration, State of

the Union, happen with security
and very smoothly every year.

And that's due to great
planning, due to leadership,
one agency put in charge,
and then coordination,

so you have the support
and the backup forces,
a civil disturbance unit
on call, a rapid-reaction

force.

What I saw yesterday was, those
elements were not in place.
There had to be a failure of

intelligence in terms
of predicting that that
group was going to be
that size, and it was

going to head toward
the Capitol. But it
was a very determined
group that attacked the

Capitol from all sides,
an incredibly challenging
law enforcement situation.

I mean, we should
not lose sight of...

AMNA NAWAZ: But, Mr.
Secretary, let me ask.
Pardon the interruption.

Let me just ask you. When
you talk about intelligence,
what more intelligence do
you think is necessary?

These are groups who were
talking about a revolution on
social media for weeks. You

have seen previous protesters
who followed the president's
words and attacked statehouses

during the lockdown
in the pandemic.

Why shouldn't federal
officials have expected that
it would go the way it did?

KEVIN MCALEENAN: Yes, so my
understanding from talking
to former colleagues is, they

were prepared for
violence, violence between
either the protesters
who became rioters and

counterprotesters, perhaps,
throughout the city, as we have
seen in prior weekends recently

in Washington, D.C.,
but not that organized
approach on the Capitol.

Should they have predicted
that? Probably. And I agree
with you that you have to look

at the sources of organization
online, what the groups are
talking about. And some of

that rhetoric was very dangerous
approaching this political
rally that became a riot.

AMNA NAWAZ: You
mentioned the rhetoric.

Do you think that President
Trump is responsible for
what happened yesterday?

KEVIN MCALEENAN: I think that
his rhetoric created a dangerous
situation, inviting that

group to D.C., talking about
going down to the Capitol.

We have seen that in the
past, where presidential
words matter. We have heard
leaders, president-elect

Biden, commentators of both
parties, talk about the
importance of communication from

that White House on what's
acceptable and what's not.

And, yes, after the
fact, we have heard calls
that violence is never
acceptable by any protest

movement exercising First
Amendment rights. But when it
becomes a riot, when it becomes

an assault on a
democratic process, it's
obviously unacceptable.

And I'm afraid rhetoric helped
inspire it and create the
circumstances that it arose

from.

AMNA NAWAZ: But, if his words
matter, if they inspired a
riot, if it's an attack on our

democratic process, is the
president fit to serve? Do you
think that his Cabinet should

be taking steps to remove him?

KEVIN MCALEENAN: Well, I think
the Constitution has processes
defined for that in the 25th

Amendment. There's significant
reporting, including on
your show this evening, that

Cabinet members are actively
considering that, in
conversations with the Hill.

But I think the ultimate
verdict was issued...

AMNA NAWAZ: And do you
think they should move
forward with that?

KEVIN MCALEENAN: Well, the
ultimate verdict was issued by
the American people in November.

And it's less than 13 days
away from being realized, and
the transition now certain,

with the votes counted,
to president-elect Biden.

But I think the people in the
chairs are best suited to make
that decision based on the

facts presented to them.

AMNA NAWAZ: I have to ask you.
You have been very quiet since
you have left. You haven't

spoken out very often.

And during your tenure, the
president often said things or
tweeted things or took actions

that a lot of people
said, why aren't people
close to him speaking out?

Why are you speaking
out right now?

KEVIN MCALEENAN: I'm
talking about these
incidents because I think
an assault on our democracy

is simply beyond the pale.

As a career official coming up
through the ranks, surprised
to be offered a political

appointment to lead an agency
that I treasured at CBP and
then at Department of Homeland

Security, to solve a crisis
at the time, I was -- I was
a civil servant. I considered

that you have to support
and defend the Constitution.
If you're asked to
serve and you have the

ability to do so,
you should try.

And I wrestled with speaking
out before and after I departed.
I did resign due to concerns

about the politicization of law
enforcement and the dangers that
presented to our institutions.

I made that decision
15 months ago.

But it's difficult now, seeing
the potential long-term impact
of a situation like yesterday,

to not come out and state how
unacceptable it is and that
there must be accountability

across the board.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is former
acting Secretary of Homeland
Security Kevin McAleenan joining

us tonight.

Thank you for your time.

KEVIN MCALEENAN: Thank you.