WEBVTT 00:02.566 --> 00:05.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Former Ohio Governor John Kasich served in public office for over three decades. 00:05.033 --> 00:10.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, in his new book, "It's Up to Us," he calls on the American people to pay less attention 00:11.200 --> 00:13.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to the president and the dramas in Washington. 00:13.466 --> 00:18.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Instead, Kasich urges individual Americans to focus on the ability each one has to move 00:19.833 --> 00:23.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% their community and the country forward. 00:23.033 --> 00:24.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Governor John Kasich, welcome back to the "NewsHour." 00:24.800 --> 00:26.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JOHN KASICH (R), Former Ohio Governor: Always great to be with you. 00:26.333 --> 00:28.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: So, I do want to ask you about the book. 00:28.100 --> 00:30.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But I first want to ask you about the news of the day. 00:30.633 --> 00:32.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And you have made some news yourself. 00:32.700 --> 00:37.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You said today that you have now come around to the view that President Trump should be 00:37.133 --> 00:39.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% impeached by the House of Representatives. 00:39.333 --> 00:41.433 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Why? 00:41.433 --> 00:44.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN KASICH: Well, first of all, Judy, I thought there should have been an impeachment inquiry 00:44.633 --> 00:46.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% from the very beginning. 00:46.666 --> 00:50.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In fact, I think the Democrats should have a vote in the full House on the inquiry. 00:50.366 --> 00:51.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It gives it credibility. 00:51.733 --> 00:53.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It gives it transparency. 00:53.100 --> 00:55.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I think that's very important. 00:55.333 --> 01:00.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What was hanging me up about the call that the president made to the president of Ukraine 01:01.233 --> 01:03.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% was, was there a quid pro quo? 01:03.366 --> 01:08.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And there's so much going on in this drama yesterday, with Sondland and text messages 01:09.533 --> 01:12.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% between him and Taylor and Volker. 01:12.633 --> 01:13.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Those had me greatly concerned. 01:13.800 --> 01:15.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Different diplomats. 01:15.033 --> 01:16.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JOHN KASICH: Yes, all the testimonies. 01:16.966 --> 01:21.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But when Mulvaney said, it's absolutely true that we withheld aid until they agreed to 01:21.100 --> 01:26.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% go back and do an investigation of the 2016 election, withholding aid from a country like 01:28.100 --> 01:32.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Ukraine that lives in the shadow of the -- of Russia, it's got troops on their land, there's 01:32.733 --> 01:34.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% no excuse for that. 01:34.033 --> 01:36.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 01:36.066 --> 01:40.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: But, as you know, though, Mick Mulvaney said then, he said again today, hey, 01:41.533 --> 01:44.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% there's political influence in American foreign policy. 01:44.033 --> 01:46.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Get over it. 01:46.066 --> 01:48.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In fact, the Trump campaign is now today selling T-shirts with "Get over it." 01:48.833 --> 01:50.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JOHN KASICH: Yes. 01:50.933 --> 01:54.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Well, look, it's one thing for a president to be able to pull aid from a country based 01:54.033 --> 01:56.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% on public policy. 01:56.100 --> 02:00.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But it's another thing to say -- to dangle aid, vital military aid, over the head of 02:02.500 --> 02:06.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a nation that's fighting literally for their survival, and so -- and based on politics, 02:07.766 --> 02:10.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% based on just, you got to go do this investigation we want. 02:10.166 --> 02:12.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we don't want any president to do that. 02:12.133 --> 02:15.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I don't come to this -- this is really, really hard for me. 02:15.466 --> 02:17.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm -- it's a really sad day for me. 02:17.566 --> 02:19.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I don't want to have to be doing this. 02:19.866 --> 02:24.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But when I look at it -- and I have responsibility to respond to questions. 02:24.800 --> 02:27.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I felt this was absolutely the right thing to do. 02:27.466 --> 02:29.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I feel good about what I have said. 02:29.933 --> 02:31.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But I'm saddened at the same time. 02:31.966 --> 02:36.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: As you know, though, John Kasich, President Trump said -- and he again -- he 02:36.066 --> 02:38.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% said it again last night -- I'm unconventional. 02:38.566 --> 02:40.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I do things in a different way. 02:40.833 --> 02:45.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Why isn't he, in his words, allowed to do things in a way we have never seen before? 02:45.666 --> 02:50.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JOHN KASICH: Well, because there's appropriate ways in which a president should conduct himself 02:50.333 --> 02:54.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in office, keeping in mind that there can't be things like an abuse of power. 02:54.733 --> 02:56.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Everyone's held accountable. 02:56.766 --> 03:00.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And if the president had said, I'm not going to give any money to Ukraine because I think 03:00.266 --> 03:03.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% there's too much corruption, well, that'd be OK with me. 03:03.466 --> 03:07.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But to say that, I'm going to withhold this aid until you want -- meet -- with until you 03:07.100 --> 03:11.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% do what I want you to do politically, which is what the chief of staff said yesterday 03:11.033 --> 03:15.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% - - and no matter how hard they try, they can't take those words back, because that demon 03:15.500 --> 03:18.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% - - that gives us a window into the way they were thinking there. 03:18.066 --> 03:21.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: So you're saying, if you were in the House today, you would vote for impeachment? 03:21.266 --> 03:22.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JOHN KASICH: I would. 03:22.933 --> 03:24.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Which is equivalent in criminal law to an indictment. 03:24.433 --> 03:25.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JOHN KASICH: Right. 03:25.700 --> 03:27.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: It's a statement of charges. 03:27.366 --> 03:30.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% What about convicting him, which is what the Senate would be asked... 03:30.233 --> 03:33.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN KASICH: Well, I think I would like to see what the articles of impeachment are that 03:33.333 --> 03:35.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - - whatever the House comes up with. 03:35.933 --> 03:40.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And at the same time, Judy, I think it's important for the Democrats to try to bring Republicans 03:41.400 --> 03:43.466 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% along. 03:43.466 --> 03:46.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And what Republicans have to ask themselves, because we are now so tribal, we're so partisan, 03:46.733 --> 03:51.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is it right for any president to dangle foreign aid for the survival of a country in a quid 03:54.300 --> 03:58.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% pro quo that, you need to investigate either your political rival or some political manipulation 03:59.666 --> 04:01.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% or political investigation? 04:01.733 --> 04:03.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I think the answer is no. 04:03.766 --> 04:07.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We have to have guardrails in which our presidents and leaders have to operate. 04:07.033 --> 04:09.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: So are you ready to say he should be removed from office? 04:09.366 --> 04:11.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JOHN KASICH: I want the process to go forward. 04:11.500 --> 04:15.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% For me to say impeachment, that's like as hard as it gets for me. 04:15.033 --> 04:18.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that indicates, I think, there's enough there to be able to do that. 04:18.600 --> 04:20.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But that's the job of the Senate. 04:20.133 --> 04:23.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And we all have to slow down and let this process take its place. 04:23.033 --> 04:27.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: There are so few Republicans in Congress -- in fact, virtually... 04:27.000 --> 04:28.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JOHN KASICH: None. 04:28.500 --> 04:29.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: ... none, who agree with you right now. 04:29.300 --> 04:30.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JOHN KASICH: Yes. 04:30.500 --> 04:31.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Why -- why so few? 04:31.733 --> 04:33.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JOHN KASICH: Well, again, it's tribal. 04:33.200 --> 04:34.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We're going to protect our guy. 04:34.766 --> 04:36.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I just wish this would go away. 04:36.866 --> 04:41.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, what has been amazing to me is, they're not even saying that that phone call was wrong. 04:43.533 --> 04:45.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And they won't say, of course, that you want to have an impeachment inquiry, but when the 04:45.633 --> 04:49.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% mass majority of Americans now are saying that this is necessary, we need to get to 04:49.133 --> 04:50.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% the bottom of it. 04:50.233 --> 04:51.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But you know what? 04:51.566 --> 04:52.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% It's now. 04:52.566 --> 04:54.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Tomorrow is a different day. 04:54.533 --> 04:58.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And as more people testify, as there's more witnesses, everybody will have to judge for 04:58.133 --> 05:00.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% themselves. 05:00.166 --> 05:03.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I'm not going to beat anybody else up into having the opinion I have. 05:03.033 --> 05:07.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's just that -- look, it was so hard for me to vote to impeach Clinton when he was 05:07.433 --> 05:08.933 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% up. 05:08.933 --> 05:10.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I struggled over that, but I decided to do it. 05:10.866 --> 05:15.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This is not the area of government that I like to focus on, scandal and impeachment. 05:17.800 --> 05:20.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But we all have our responsibilities to do and say some things, even when we have to 05:20.666 --> 05:22.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% get out of our comfort zone. 05:22.766 --> 05:25.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And, in fact, your book is about, don't focus so much on Washington. 05:25.733 --> 05:27.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The title is, "It's Up to Us." 05:27.866 --> 05:32.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% You're saying the American people have the ability, they have the obligation to themselves 05:32.866 --> 05:34.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% try to make the country better, their community better. 05:34.866 --> 05:37.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN KASICH: Well, live a life -- yes, live a life a little bigger than themselves. 05:37.733 --> 05:38.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We all have certain gifts. 05:38.933 --> 05:39.933 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% You have them. 05:39.933 --> 05:41.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The people watching have them. 05:41.700 --> 05:43.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And they're given to us. 05:43.000 --> 05:45.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we're expected to be healers in the world. 05:45.066 --> 05:47.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We're not expected to be dividers. 05:47.433 --> 05:49.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we need to get out of our silos. 05:49.200 --> 05:51.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We need to put ourselves in other people's shoes. 05:51.700 --> 05:54.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we need to take care of things where we live. 05:54.400 --> 05:58.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that doesn't mean that, sometimes, those actions don't result in big global things, 05:58.300 --> 06:03.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% like Greta Thunberg, the 16-year-old girl who held a sign and created a global movement, 06:05.200 --> 06:08.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% or those young people at Parkland in Florida who pushed gun control through the Florida 06:09.233 --> 06:10.466 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% legislature. 06:10.466 --> 06:12.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But there's also stories in here about people. 06:12.133 --> 06:14.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% One girl, she lives in Illinois. 06:14.000 --> 06:18.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% She was 5 years old when Hurricane Florence was coming. 06:18.033 --> 06:20.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Her name was Florence. 06:20.100 --> 06:22.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% She told her mom: "They're not going to like me, because my name is Florence, and that 06:22.200 --> 06:23.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% storm is horrible. 06:23.266 --> 06:25.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I got to go get Band-Aids." 06:25.233 --> 06:28.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And she and her brother went around the neighborhood in a little red wagon. 06:28.033 --> 06:32.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And when they collected supplies, they filled the garage, and somebody took a tractor-trailer 06:32.000 --> 06:33.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% down to North Carolina. 06:33.066 --> 06:35.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Now, did she change the world? 06:35.200 --> 06:37.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% She most certainly did. 06:37.266 --> 06:40.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you say to the people who voted for Donald Trump in 2016? 06:40.133 --> 06:45.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There were 60-some million of them, who many of them have told us and they have told others, 06:46.200 --> 06:47.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I voted for him because I wanted change. 06:47.433 --> 06:49.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I didn't like what was going on in Washington. 06:49.000 --> 06:51.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I thought he was going to bring the change. 06:51.733 --> 06:53.800 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% What do you say to them? 06:53.800 --> 06:55.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN KASICH: Well, they have to look in the mirror and ask themselves honestly, did he 06:55.100 --> 06:56.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% bring the change that he promised? 06:56.566 --> 06:58.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, are there more steel mills? 06:58.566 --> 07:02.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Are there more cars being made, all those kinds of -- are there more auto plants open? 07:02.600 --> 07:05.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And how do I feel about the rhetoric? 07:05.433 --> 07:10.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This whole business of bullying, to some degree, I have had people argue in this -- who work 07:10.233 --> 07:13.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in schools that, somehow, bullying has become more acceptable. 07:13.933 --> 07:16.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It -- look, I don't like this, Judy. 07:16.433 --> 07:20.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% I don't like to have to say these things about our president. 07:20.433 --> 07:24.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But when I look at it, when I look at the scale of his policies and the behavior that 07:24.266 --> 07:27.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% divides us, something has to be done about it. 07:27.633 --> 07:29.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But that's not why I'm for impeachment. 07:29.700 --> 07:33.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I'm for impeachment because of what I think is the quid pro quo, bringing politics into 07:33.433 --> 07:36.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% foreign aid, and putting other nations at risk. 07:36.666 --> 07:41.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: John Kasich, the former governor of Ohio, former congressman. 07:41.266 --> 07:45.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The book is "It's Up to Us: Ten Little Ways We Can Bring About Big Change." 07:45.100 --> 07:47.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Thank you. 07:47.166 --> 07:48.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOHN KASICH: It's for the young, for the middle-aged, and it's for our seniors. 07:48.233 --> 07:49.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you. 07:49.233 --> 07:49.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JOHN KASICH: Thank you.