JUDY WOODRUFF: Former
Ohio Governor John Kasich
served in public office
for over three decades.

But, in his new book, "It's Up
to Us," he calls on the American
people to pay less attention

to the president and the
dramas in Washington.

Instead, Kasich urges individual
Americans to focus on the
ability each one has to move

their community and
the country forward.

Governor John Kasich, welcome
back to the "NewsHour."

JOHN KASICH (R), Former
Ohio Governor: Always
great to be with you.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, I do want
to ask you about the book.

But I first want to ask you
about the news of the day.

And you have made
some news yourself.

You said today that you have
now come around to the view
that President Trump should be

impeached by the House
of Representatives.

Why?

JOHN KASICH: Well, first of all,
Judy, I thought there should
have been an impeachment inquiry

from the very beginning.

In fact, I think the Democrats
should have a vote in the
full House on the inquiry.

It gives it credibility.

It gives it transparency.

And I think that's
very important.

What was hanging me up about
the call that the president
made to the president of Ukraine

was, was there a quid pro quo?

And there's so much going on
in this drama yesterday, with
Sondland and text messages

between him and
Taylor and Volker.

Those had me greatly concerned.

JUDY WOODRUFF:
Different diplomats.

JOHN KASICH: Yes,
all the testimonies.

But when Mulvaney said, it's
absolutely true that we withheld
aid until they agreed to

go back and do an
investigation of the 2016
election, withholding
aid from a country like

Ukraine that lives in the shadow
of the -- of Russia, it's got
troops on their land, there's

no excuse for that.

(CROSSTALK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: But, as you
know, though, Mick Mulvaney said
then, he said again today, hey,

there's political influence
in American foreign policy.

Get over it.

In fact, the Trump campaign
is now today selling
T-shirts with "Get over it."

JOHN KASICH: Yes.

Well, look, it's one thing
for a president to be able to
pull aid from a country based

on public policy.

But it's another thing to
say -- to dangle aid, vital
military aid, over the head of

a nation that's fighting
literally for their survival,
and so -- and based on politics,

based on just, you got to go
do this investigation we want.

And we don't want any
president to do that.

And I don't come to this -- this
is really, really hard for me.

I'm -- it's a really
sad day for me.

I don't want to have
to be doing this.

But when I look at it --
and I have responsibility
to respond to questions.

I felt this was absolutely
the right thing to do.

So I feel good about
what I have said.

But I'm saddened
at the same time.

JUDY WOODRUFF: As you know,
though, John Kasich, President
Trump said -- and he again -- he

said it again last night
-- I'm unconventional.

I do things in a different way.

Why isn't he, in his words,
allowed to do things in a way
we have never seen before?

JOHN KASICH: Well, because
there's appropriate ways
in which a president
should conduct himself

in office, keeping in mind
that there can't be things
like an abuse of power.

Everyone's held accountable.

And if the president had said,
I'm not going to give any money
to Ukraine because I think

there's too much corruption,
well, that'd be OK with me.

But to say that, I'm going to
withhold this aid until you
want -- meet -- with until you

do what I want you to do
politically, which is what the
chief of staff said yesterday

- - and no matter how hard
they try, they can't take those
words back, because that demon

- - that gives us a
window into the way they
were thinking there.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So you're saying,
if you were in the House today,
you would vote for impeachment?

JOHN KASICH: I would.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Which is
equivalent in criminal
law to an indictment.

JOHN KASICH: Right.

JUDY WOODRUFF: It's a
statement of charges.

What about convicting
him, which is what the
Senate would be asked...

JOHN KASICH: Well, I think
I would like to see what the
articles of impeachment are that

- - whatever the
House comes up with.

And at the same time, Judy,
I think it's important
for the Democrats to
try to bring Republicans

along.

And what Republicans have to ask
themselves, because we are now
so tribal, we're so partisan,

is it right for any president
to dangle foreign aid for the
survival of a country in a quid

pro quo that, you need to
investigate either your
political rival or some
political manipulation

or political investigation?

I think the answer is no.

We have to have guardrails
in which our presidents and
leaders have to operate.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So are you
ready to say he should
be removed from office?

JOHN KASICH: I want the
process to go forward.

For me to say impeachment,
that's like as hard
as it gets for me.

And that indicates, I
think, there's enough there
to be able to do that.

But that's the
job of the Senate.

And we all have to slow down and
let this process take its place.

JUDY WOODRUFF: There are so
few Republicans in Congress
-- in fact, virtually...

JOHN KASICH: None.

JUDY WOODRUFF: ... none, who
agree with you right now.

JOHN KASICH: Yes.

JUDY WOODRUFF:
Why -- why so few?

JOHN KASICH: Well,
again, it's tribal.

We're going to protect our guy.

And I just wish
this would go away.

I mean, what has been amazing to
me is, they're not even saying
that that phone call was wrong.

And they won't say, of
course, that you want
to have an impeachment
inquiry, but when the

mass majority of Americans
now are saying that this is
necessary, we need to get to

the bottom of it.

But you know what?

It's now.

Tomorrow is a different day.

And as more people testify,
as there's more witnesses,
everybody will have to judge for

themselves.

I'm not going to beat
anybody else up into
having the opinion I have.

It's just that -- look, it
was so hard for me to vote to
impeach Clinton when he was

up.

And I struggled over that,
but I decided to do it.

This is not the area of
government that I like to focus
on, scandal and impeachment.

But we all have our
responsibilities to do
and say some things,
even when we have to

get out of our comfort zone.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, in fact,
your book is about, don't
focus so much on Washington.

The title is, "It's Up to Us."

You're saying the
American people have the
ability, they have the
obligation to themselves

try to make the country
better, their community better.

JOHN KASICH: Well, live a
life -- yes, live a life a
little bigger than themselves.

We all have certain gifts.

You have them.

The people watching have them.

And they're given to us.

And we're expected to
be healers in the world.

We're not expected
to be dividers.

And we need to get
out of our silos.

We need to put ourselves
in other people's shoes.

And we need to take care
of things where we live.

And that doesn't mean that,
sometimes, those actions don't
result in big global things,

like Greta Thunberg, the
16-year-old girl who held a sign
and created a global movement,

or those young people at
Parkland in Florida who pushed
gun control through the Florida

legislature.

But there's also stories
in here about people.

One girl, she lives in Illinois.

She was 5 years old when
Hurricane Florence was coming.

Her name was Florence.

She told her mom: "They're
not going to like me, because
my name is Florence, and that

storm is horrible.

I got to go get Band-Aids."

And she and her brother
went around the neighborhood
in a little red wagon.

And when they collected
supplies, they filled
the garage, and somebody
took a tractor-trailer

down to North Carolina.

Now, did she change the world?

She most certainly did.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you
say to the people who voted
for Donald Trump in 2016?

There were 60-some million of
them, who many of them have told
us and they have told others,

I voted for him because
I wanted change.

I didn't like what was
going on in Washington.

I thought he was going
to bring the change.

What do you say to them?

JOHN KASICH: Well, they have
to look in the mirror and ask
themselves honestly, did he

bring the change
that he promised?

I mean, are there
more steel mills?

Are there more cars being
made, all those kinds of -- are
there more auto plants open?

And how do I feel
about the rhetoric?

This whole business of bullying,
to some degree, I have had
people argue in this -- who work

in schools that,
somehow, bullying has
become more acceptable.

It -- look, I don't
like this, Judy.

I don't like to have
to say these things
about our president.

But when I look at it, when
I look at the scale of his
policies and the behavior that

divides us, something
has to be done about it.

But that's not why
I'm for impeachment.

I'm for impeachment because of
what I think is the quid pro
quo, bringing politics into

foreign aid, and putting
other nations at risk.

JUDY WOODRUFF: John Kasich,
the former governor of
Ohio, former congressman.

The book is "It's Up to
Us: Ten Little Ways We Can
Bring About Big Change."

Thank you.

JOHN KASICH: It's for the
young, for the middle-aged,
and it's for our seniors.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you.

JOHN KASICH: Thank you.