1 00:00:02,100 --> 00:00:04,133 HARI SREENIVASAN: But first: In recent weeks, millions of people have taken to social media 2 00:00:04,133 --> 00:00:08,033 to share their personal stories of sexual assault and harassment, using the hashtag 3 00:00:08,033 --> 00:00:10,066 #MeToo. 4 00:00:10,066 --> 00:00:14,000 The woman behind the original MeToo campaign wants to make sure marginalized voices aren't 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,033 lost in the current conversation. 6 00:00:16,033 --> 00:00:19,533 Tarana Burke created Just Be Inc. more than a decade ago. 7 00:00:19,533 --> 00:00:24,133 It's a nonprofit focused on giving resources and support to young women of color grappling 8 00:00:24,133 --> 00:00:26,266 with sexual trauma and harassment. 9 00:00:26,266 --> 00:00:27,766 Tarana Burke, welcome. 10 00:00:27,766 --> 00:00:29,233 TARANA BURKE, Founder of MeToo Movement: Thank you. 11 00:00:29,233 --> 00:00:30,033 HARI SREENIVASAN: First, why did you start this 10 years ago? 12 00:00:30,033 --> 00:00:32,033 What was behind it? 13 00:00:32,033 --> 00:00:34,366 TARANA BURKE: Well, I'm a survivor of sexual violence, and I was working with young women 14 00:00:34,366 --> 00:00:37,733 who were disclosing their experience with sexual violence. 15 00:00:37,733 --> 00:00:42,400 And my friend and I started an organization called Just Be Inc. to work with young girls, 16 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:47,133 and we realized we needed to shift and start dealing with the issue of sexual violence 17 00:00:47,133 --> 00:00:48,766 in the community we were in. 18 00:00:48,766 --> 00:00:50,766 HARI SREENIVASAN: Was there a particular case that spoke to you? 19 00:00:50,766 --> 00:00:53,033 TARANA BURKE: Well, there were several cases. 20 00:00:53,033 --> 00:00:58,033 But, you know, some years before we started this work, there was a young woman who had 21 00:01:00,133 --> 00:01:02,400 come to me with her story at a time in my life when I really wasn't equipped to handle 22 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,433 it. 23 00:01:04,433 --> 00:01:08,400 And I felt a real debt to her and wanting to do some work that would cover the work 24 00:01:09,866 --> 00:01:11,533 that I didn't do at that time. 25 00:01:11,533 --> 00:01:13,400 HARI SREENIVASAN: And that you didn't say me too to her at that time. 26 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:14,866 TARANA BURKE: I didn't. 27 00:01:14,866 --> 00:01:17,066 HARI SREENIVASAN: And so this is an offshoot of that. 28 00:01:17,066 --> 00:01:20,466 So, when you see this conversation, when you saw this conversation go national, go viral 29 00:01:20,466 --> 00:01:22,566 in this way, what came to mind? 30 00:01:22,566 --> 00:01:26,933 TARANA BURKE: Well, at first, I wondered how our work would be uplifted in that moment, 31 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,900 right? 32 00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:33,800 And I realized that I needed to insert myself in the conversation for a few reasons, one, 33 00:01:36,233 --> 00:01:38,800 to make sure that the marginalized voices I represent weren't erased, but also to provide 34 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,066 people some context for the use of MeToo. 35 00:01:42,066 --> 00:01:46,900 We have a theory called empowerment through empathy, which is the basis of how we do the 36 00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:48,766 work. 37 00:01:48,766 --> 00:01:51,800 And I felt like it was necessary to ground the conversation in a body of work. 38 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,100 HARI SREENIVASAN: You have said before that sexual violence doesn't see race or class, 39 00:01:55,100 --> 00:01:56,533 but the response to it does. 40 00:01:56,533 --> 00:01:58,566 Tell me what that means. 41 00:01:58,566 --> 00:02:01,633 TARANA BURKE: That means that when we see things like Harvey Weinstein having dozens 42 00:02:01,633 --> 00:02:06,633 and dozens of accusers, and the only person he responds to is Lupita Nyong'o and -- the 43 00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:09,900 black women, that means something. 44 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:14,533 It also means that, when you have all of these powerful, rich, wealthy men who are white 45 00:02:14,533 --> 00:02:19,533 and attacking or are victimizing white women, it gets all of this attention, but you have 46 00:02:21,533 --> 00:02:24,733 somebody like R. Kelly, who has been a known sexual predator for two decades, but his victims 47 00:02:26,100 --> 00:02:27,633 are all black girls. 48 00:02:27,633 --> 00:02:29,700 HARI SREENIVASAN: Why do you think that disparity exists? 49 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:32,800 TARANA BURKE: Well, I think it's rooted in the oppression that we,that people of color 50 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,933 face in this country. 51 00:02:34,933 --> 00:02:37,966 I also think it's rooted in the way we're socialized to think about black girls and 52 00:02:37,966 --> 00:02:39,300 women of color, right? 53 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:42,166 We're socialized to not believe black women. 54 00:02:42,166 --> 00:02:47,100 We're socialized to believe that we are fast and sexually promiscuous and things of that 55 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:49,200 nature. 56 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,400 And so, when people look at R. Kelly's victims, they don't see girls, little children. 57 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:53,866 They see women. 58 00:02:53,866 --> 00:02:56,866 HARI SREENIVASAN: So, what comes next in this conversation? 59 00:02:56,866 --> 00:03:00,100 How do you take it from a hashtag to the real work that has to be done? 60 00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:02,966 TARANA BURKE: Well, that's one of the reasons why I inserted myself, right, because the 61 00:03:02,966 --> 00:03:06,766 work was already being done, and we want to expand on that. 62 00:03:06,766 --> 00:03:11,766 I think what we have seen over the last month is mass disclosure across social media. 63 00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:16,533 And as much as that is empowering, it is also problematic in some ways. 64 00:03:16,533 --> 00:03:18,600 People don't have a way to process. 65 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,466 People don't have a way to think about what happens after they disclose their experience 66 00:03:22,466 --> 00:03:24,100 with sexual violence. 67 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:27,133 And so one of the things we want to do is really support survivors. 68 00:03:27,133 --> 00:03:31,700 We want to find ways to give resources to people in communities that don't have resources. 69 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:35,633 And we also want to activate folks who are ready to do the work of ending sexual violence. 70 00:03:35,633 --> 00:03:39,066 HARI SREENIVASAN: But you have also said that you want to look at the structural kind of 71 00:03:39,066 --> 00:03:42,400 inequities, deficiencies, not just the edge cases. 72 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,400 Let's not just focus on Harvey Weinstein, but the forces at work behind it. 73 00:03:48,133 --> 00:03:49,633 TARANA BURKE: Right. 74 00:03:49,633 --> 00:03:52,300 I think that it's a mistake for us to keep creating boogeymen. 75 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:55,166 Every day, literally, there's a new better than person that comes out, and everybody 76 00:03:55,166 --> 00:03:56,633 has shock and awe: Oh, my God. 77 00:03:56,633 --> 00:03:59,266 I can't believe so-and-so did this. 78 00:03:59,266 --> 00:04:03,500 And the reality is that those people operate within systems that allow them to flourish. 79 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:07,633 When we look at patriarchy, when we look at capitalism, these are systems in place that 80 00:04:07,633 --> 00:04:12,633 allow men like Harvey Weinstein, or Bill Cosby, and even R. Kelly to exist, because people 81 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,566 are more invested in those systems than they are in human dignity. 82 00:04:16,566 --> 00:04:19,166 HARI SREENIVASAN: But what is necessary, especially by men? 83 00:04:19,166 --> 00:04:21,600 TARANA BURKE: You know, men keep asking that question. 84 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,066 (LAUGHTER) 85 00:04:23,066 --> 00:04:25,166 TARANA BURKE: I think men need to be proactive. 86 00:04:25,166 --> 00:04:29,766 I think that they don't need to wait for women to lead the way, because this is really -- the 87 00:04:29,766 --> 00:04:33,066 thing that troubles me is, oftentimes, men say, well, I want to be better because I have 88 00:04:33,066 --> 00:04:35,166 a daughter, because I have a wife. 89 00:04:35,166 --> 00:04:38,433 And, really, it should be, I want to be better because I'm a human being and I recognize 90 00:04:38,433 --> 00:04:42,966 that women are human beings, and I should be honoring their dignity and their humanity, 91 00:04:42,966 --> 00:04:45,966 and not just because I'm connected, have a familial connection. 92 00:04:45,966 --> 00:04:47,666 So, men need to be proactive. 93 00:04:47,666 --> 00:04:50,166 They need to do research. 94 00:04:50,166 --> 00:04:53,833 There are tons of organizations who help men understand patriarchy and privilege, and they 95 00:04:55,100 --> 00:04:57,433 need to start dismantling those things. 96 00:04:57,433 --> 00:04:59,533 HARI SREENIVASAN: You know, speaking of inserting yourself in the conversation, there's a piece 97 00:04:59,533 --> 00:05:03,466 of legislation on Capitol Hill right now that has the title -- MeToo in the title. 98 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:05,866 But this isn't something that you're behind? 99 00:05:05,866 --> 00:05:07,233 TARANA BURKE: No, I'm not behind it. 100 00:05:07,233 --> 00:05:09,933 And I don't -- I don't know what to make of it. 101 00:05:09,933 --> 00:05:14,933 So there was a MeTooCongress hashtag that came about, and I thought it was powerful 102 00:05:16,866 --> 00:05:20,733 that people in Congress were stepping forward and talking about the sexual harassment that 103 00:05:20,733 --> 00:05:22,733 they face in Congress. 104 00:05:22,733 --> 00:05:26,333 But the way this bill is being framed, I think people are thinking that this is something 105 00:05:26,333 --> 00:05:29,333 for survivors of sexual violence across the board, when it's not. 106 00:05:29,333 --> 00:05:34,166 Just using the name MeToo feels like it's trading on the popularity of the moment, which 107 00:05:34,166 --> 00:05:36,600 is fine, because everybody's doing that. 108 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,466 But I think they need to be more clear that this is not a bill that's going to support 109 00:05:39,466 --> 00:05:41,166 survivors of sexual violence. 110 00:05:41,166 --> 00:05:43,400 It's very specific to the people who work on Capitol Hill. 111 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,233 HARI SREENIVASAN: Do you think all of this attention is an actual tipping point, or are 112 00:05:47,233 --> 00:05:49,900 we going to get caught up in the next movement, the trends? 113 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:53,933 TARANA BURKE: It's definitely a viral moment, and I think that we should acknowledge that, 114 00:05:53,933 --> 00:05:56,033 and that's fine. 115 00:05:56,033 --> 00:05:59,533 I think that people are really caught up in what's going to happen and, you know, is this 116 00:05:59,533 --> 00:06:01,100 going to be a viral moment? 117 00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:03,033 What is going to happen is what we allow to happen. 118 00:06:03,033 --> 00:06:04,533 And so the work already existed. 119 00:06:04,533 --> 00:06:05,800 The work will continue. 120 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,266 And I feel like this is a tipping point. 121 00:06:07,266 --> 00:06:10,200 This is a place where this is a cultural shift. 122 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,300 And I'm going to do the best I can to take advantage of that and continue this work far 123 00:06:14,300 --> 00:06:16,300 beyond the hashtag. 124 00:06:16,300 --> 00:06:18,633 HARI SREENIVASAN: All right, Tarana Burke of Just Be Inc., the creator of the MeToo 125 00:06:18,633 --> 00:06:19,633 movement, thank so much. 126 00:06:19,633 --> 00:06:19,766 TARANA BURKE: Thank you.