1 00:00:02,066 --> 00:00:04,966 JUDY WOODRUFF: And now it's time for the political analysis of Brooks and Capehart. That's New 2 00:00:04,966 --> 00:00:09,966 York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart. Mark Shields 3 00:00:11,333 --> 00:00:12,566 is away. 4 00:00:12,566 --> 00:00:15,166 So, hello to both of you on this Friday night. 5 00:00:15,166 --> 00:00:19,666 I want to start with something both candidates did. They went to a city, David, that is -- where 6 00:00:21,866 --> 00:00:26,866 people are truly in anguish over the shooting of a Black man. His name is Jacob Blake. It 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,033 is Kenosha, Wisconsin. 8 00:00:32,033 --> 00:00:36,366 We saw both of them go, make statements. What did you make, David, of their different approaches? 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,400 DAVID BROOKS: Well, they were both very true to their core mission, what they have been 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,633 running on, especially this year, but maybe since the beginning of their political careers. 11 00:00:46,633 --> 00:00:50,366 Donald Trump has been running on a sense of menace, a sense that there is a lot of danger 12 00:00:50,366 --> 00:00:55,333 out there in the world and that he is the one to restore order. And so the keystone 13 00:00:57,300 --> 00:01:00,200 of his visit was the image of him standing behind -- in front of a burned-out buildings, 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,333 and he wants to convey that message. 15 00:01:02,333 --> 00:01:06,766 Joe Biden has run as a uniter. And so he went to speak to the Blake family. He pleased them 16 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,133 very much with his sensitivity of what they were going through. 17 00:01:11,133 --> 00:01:15,066 And you would have to say the evidence so far is that the law and order campaign that 18 00:01:15,066 --> 00:01:20,066 Trump has been running since the convention has not shown much impact on the polls. He 19 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,266 is still down seven or eight points. 20 00:01:23,266 --> 00:01:27,266 If you ask people on a whole range of measures which candidate makes you feel safe, Biden 21 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,933 wins on -- any way you ask that question, Biden wins. If you ask people, is Donald Trump 22 00:01:31,933 --> 00:01:36,066 making it worse, 55 percent say Donald Trump is making it worse. 23 00:01:36,066 --> 00:01:41,000 So, the law and order message, at least so far, and as expressed through Kenosha, not 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,266 working. 25 00:01:42,266 --> 00:01:44,633 JUDY WOODRUFF: Jonathan, how did you see this? 26 00:01:44,633 --> 00:01:49,600 JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, Judy, I look at it as -- at the two trips like this. 27 00:01:51,633 --> 00:01:54,533 One was a political -- both were political trips, but one was political; the other was 28 00:01:54,533 --> 00:01:56,566 presidential. 29 00:01:56,566 --> 00:02:00,533 President Trump's trip was strictly political. To David's point, it was all about law and 30 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:07,400 order. It was all about stoking fear, white grievance, white fear of Black people, standing 31 00:02:09,966 --> 00:02:14,966 with law enforcement, which, on its face, is not -- is not wrong or bad or problematic, 32 00:02:17,333 --> 00:02:21,100 but in a city where a 17-year-old shot -- allegedly shot at three people, killed two of them, 33 00:02:23,733 --> 00:02:28,733 and those same police officers rolled right by him, the president has had nothing but 34 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:34,800 good things to say about that person, who was part of a militia, right-wing militia. 35 00:02:36,933 --> 00:02:41,933 And so the president goes to Kenosha to buttress that. 36 00:02:41,933 --> 00:02:46,933 Joe Biden, on the other hand, I think, did a presidential trip. He went to the Kenosha 37 00:02:48,966 --> 00:02:52,700 community to meet with the community, met with the Blake family, apparently talked with 38 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:58,233 Jacob Blake. But the community meeting he did at a local church, where he heard from 39 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:03,800 all sorts of folks from the community, was him sitting, listening, responding in kind. 40 00:03:07,366 --> 00:03:12,366 And a young woman, Porsche Bennett, who decided not to read the list of demands from her organization, 41 00:03:14,733 --> 00:03:19,500 but instead decided to talk from the heart, and talk to Vice President Biden about how 42 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:24,500 - - quote -- "heavily angry" she and her community are about not being treated fairly, and the 43 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,866 way Joe Biden responded to that, I think, was sort of a balm over the entire situation, 44 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,800 because, in situations that happen, as have happened in Kenosha, people look to the president 45 00:03:39,266 --> 00:03:42,133 for calm, for leadership. 46 00:03:42,133 --> 00:03:45,733 They got that from Joe Biden. But Joe Biden isn't the president. 47 00:03:45,733 --> 00:03:50,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we -- both candidates during this past week have released TV ads 48 00:03:52,233 --> 00:03:57,233 that address racial unrest, address protests around the police. 49 00:03:58,466 --> 00:04:00,900 Here is just a short clip from each one. 50 00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:05,900 JOSEPH BIDEN (D), Presidential Candidate: Rioting is not protesting. Looting is not 51 00:04:07,866 --> 00:04:11,133 protesting. It's lawlessness, plain and simple. And those who do it should be prosecuted. 52 00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:17,633 Fires are burning, and we have a president who fans the flames. He can't stop the violence, 53 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,200 because, for years, he's fomented it. 54 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,133 NARRATOR: Lawless criminals terrorize Kenosha. Joe Biden takes a knee. Biden and the radical 55 00:04:27,066 --> 00:04:31,033 left's weak response has led to chaos and violence, and their calls for defunding police 56 00:04:31,766 --> 00:04:33,266 would make it worse. 57 00:04:33,266 --> 00:04:36,133 JUDY WOODRUFF: David, what are these messages telling you? 58 00:04:36,133 --> 00:04:39,833 DAVID BROOKS: Well, Biden did something he - - his party failed to do during the convention, 59 00:04:39,833 --> 00:04:44,833 which was to acknowledge there is disorder in the country, crime really is rising, and 60 00:04:44,833 --> 00:04:48,466 there has been rioting and looting. It is not the mainstream of the protests, but it 61 00:04:48,466 --> 00:04:50,533 has been an element of the protest. 62 00:04:50,533 --> 00:04:53,933 Maybe about 8 percent of the protests have turned violent. That is still a lot and it's 63 00:04:53,933 --> 00:04:55,966 still on people's minds. 64 00:04:55,966 --> 00:05:00,166 And so, with that speech and then the ad they have cut out of it, he is acknowledging that, 65 00:05:00,166 --> 00:05:04,133 and he is making it a clear statement, which we talked about last week, of setting a boundary 66 00:05:04,133 --> 00:05:09,133 that rioting and looting are not protesting, and that he is going crack down on that. 67 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,266 And that was acknowledging a real flaw in the Democratic approach at the convention, 68 00:05:13,266 --> 00:05:17,033 where they just didn't see that reality. And so I think he helped himself. 69 00:05:17,033 --> 00:05:22,033 I mean, his team -- the downside of his team is, they are really experienced. They have 70 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,500 been a part of the Democratic Party for a long time. The upside of his team is, they 71 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:30,633 are really experienced and they know how to run a campaign. 72 00:05:30,633 --> 00:05:35,633 And so I think they have run a very effective campaign straight through. And it showed again 73 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,466 this week. 74 00:05:38,466 --> 00:05:41,300 JUDY WOODRUFF: Jonathan, does that ad help Joe Biden? 75 00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:45,833 JONATHAN CAPEHART: I think that ad helps Joe Biden, because he makes a clear line, which 76 00:05:45,833 --> 00:05:50,833 is obvious to folks on the ground, that there is a distinct difference between the peaceful 77 00:05:53,666 --> 00:05:58,533 protesters, who are out there wanting their voices heard about what happened to Jacob 78 00:05:58,533 --> 00:06:02,600 Blake being shot in the back seven times by a police officers. 79 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,166 That young woman I just mentioned, Porsche Bennett, she even in her remarks said she 80 00:06:07,166 --> 00:06:12,166 was there speaking not for the protest -- not for the rioters and the looters. No, she is 81 00:06:13,566 --> 00:06:17,166 there speaking on behalf of the protesters, who want equity. 82 00:06:17,166 --> 00:06:22,133 And I do think it -- I agree with David. It is important and good that Vice President 83 00:06:22,133 --> 00:06:27,133 Biden put that ad out there and made it clear that he draws a line and a distinction. 84 00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:34,033 And I don't think he is reacting to President Trump, as much as he is reflecting the reality 85 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:40,900 on the ground and the reality as the protesters see it. They are not part of the rioters or 86 00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:42,533 the looters either. 87 00:06:42,533 --> 00:06:46,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: Two other quick things I want to ask you both about. 88 00:06:46,033 --> 00:06:51,033 And, one, David, has to do with several announcements from the administration in recent days about 89 00:06:53,033 --> 00:06:57,966 rapid testing for COVID, the president talking about we are going to have a vaccine this 90 00:06:59,533 --> 00:07:02,000 fall, maybe in October. 91 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:07,000 Is all this likely to be effective in changing the minds of voters who are skeptical about 92 00:07:08,533 --> 00:07:11,266 his leadership or just don't know what to think? 93 00:07:11,266 --> 00:07:16,133 DAVID BROOKS: Well, willing a vaccine into existence like a week before the election, 94 00:07:16,133 --> 00:07:19,133 probably not going to work. That's not the way science works. 95 00:07:19,133 --> 00:07:23,933 But I have to give the administration some credit on the rapid testing. And Abbott Labs 96 00:07:23,933 --> 00:07:28,933 apparently come with a breakthrough that gives you a chance to do testing fast. And the administration 97 00:07:30,933 --> 00:07:34,333 has poured a lot of money toward that, to get 150 million of these tests. 98 00:07:34,333 --> 00:07:38,866 And for all the flaws of the administration's COVID response, they have done a decent job 99 00:07:38,866 --> 00:07:41,833 of pouring money, both toward a vaccine and toward testing. 100 00:07:41,833 --> 00:07:45,333 And so I give them some credit at that. The - - from what I understand of this test, it's 101 00:07:45,333 --> 00:07:50,333 not the ultimate solution for a testing. You want to be able to test at home and et cetera. 102 00:07:52,333 --> 00:07:54,533 But if we could do rapid testing, you could test as people go into schools and conferences 103 00:07:54,533 --> 00:07:57,000 and buildings. 104 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,366 If that could be effective, that is a step back toward normalcy. And I have to give them 105 00:08:00,366 --> 00:08:03,800 some credit where credit is due. They have put a lot of money into this. 106 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: Clearly, everybody wants vaccine as soon as possible. 107 00:08:07,933 --> 00:08:10,900 Jonathan, what about the political effects of this? 108 00:08:10,900 --> 00:08:15,900 JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, what is unfortunate about what the administration is doing -- I 109 00:08:17,033 --> 00:08:19,166 mean, great on the rapid testing. 110 00:08:19,166 --> 00:08:23,700 A vaccine coming before the election, not so sure about that. But it seems that all 111 00:08:25,766 --> 00:08:29,200 of these moves are being made not because of compassion for the sick and for the infected 112 00:08:31,266 --> 00:08:35,466 and for those who died, but as a political maneuver, to shore up a political problem 113 00:08:36,933 --> 00:08:39,000 that the president has. 114 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,933 He has not been handling the response to the coronavirus pandemic well at all. And I think 115 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,966 what the American people have been looking for is, where is the national plan? What are 116 00:08:50,966 --> 00:08:55,966 you doing to safeguard our health, but, by extension, safeguard our livelihoods? 117 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:03,800 Because the pandemic has hit us in our health, but it also is hitting us in the pocketbook 118 00:09:04,533 --> 00:09:06,600 and our livelihoods. 119 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,666 JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally to both of you, this article that raised a lot of eyebrows that 120 00:09:12,033 --> 00:09:14,166 has just come out in "The Atlantic" overnight. 121 00:09:14,166 --> 00:09:18,900 David, Jeffrey Goldberg reporting from anonymous sources, but, in his words, credible sources, 122 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:26,000 that the president used words like suckers and losers over the course of his presidency 123 00:09:27,666 --> 00:09:31,100 talking about people who served in the military, people who died in war. 124 00:09:33,066 --> 00:09:36,600 He's -- the White House completely denies this. Do you see something like this having 125 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,233 an effect? 126 00:09:39,233 --> 00:09:42,233 DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I mean, A, Jeffrey Goldberg has had a whole series of scoops coming out 127 00:09:42,233 --> 00:09:47,233 of the Pentagon and the Defense Department in administrations going back for decades 128 00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:51,000 now. So, he's a high-credibility journalist. 129 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,333 This story has now been confirmed by several other news organizations, including FOX News. 130 00:09:54,333 --> 00:09:58,433 And so we can fully expect that he -- he did call -- he dishonored the war dead by calling 131 00:09:58,433 --> 00:10:02,666 them losers and suckers. And it is no so far out of reach of what he's said in public about 132 00:10:02,666 --> 00:10:06,133 John McCain and others. So, I find it completely credible. 133 00:10:06,133 --> 00:10:11,133 And that the idea that a guy who is offended by Colin Kaepernick taking a knee, he says 134 00:10:13,066 --> 00:10:16,500 that dishonors the country, but calling the war dead losers, that is an absurdity. 135 00:10:18,933 --> 00:10:21,800 And so people are rightly offended. I mean, we get offended by this guy on an hourly basis, 136 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,800 but this is an offense that goes to the core of the conservative value system, the military 137 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,933 value system. 138 00:10:29,933 --> 00:10:33,533 And what has been shocking to me this year is, already, even before this happens, according 139 00:10:33,533 --> 00:10:38,500 to surveys of active military personnel, they were already for Biden, which is extremely 140 00:10:39,833 --> 00:10:41,800 rare, for the active military to be for Democrats. 141 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,766 And so he was already in trouble with this group, and it has got to trouble everybody 142 00:10:47,766 --> 00:10:50,133 who is in and out of uniform. 143 00:10:50,133 --> 00:10:53,833 JUDY WOODRUFF: Jonathan, what are you thinking about this? 144 00:10:53,833 --> 00:10:58,800 JONATHAN CAPEHART: It -- I didn't think I could be shocked anymore, particularly since 145 00:11:00,933 --> 00:11:04,700 Charlottesville, about what the president says or thinks about things or individuals. 146 00:11:06,833 --> 00:11:11,833 I was horrified by what I read attributed the president of the United States, where 147 00:11:13,833 --> 00:11:18,766 Jeffrey Goldberg got basically -- on four sources. And the fact that, to David's point, 148 00:11:20,733 --> 00:11:24,100 that it has been corroborated by other news organizations, including my own, The Washington 149 00:11:24,966 --> 00:11:27,000 Post, tells you something. 150 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,933 And it is shameful. But I think what is even more shameful is the silence from Republican 151 00:11:35,133 --> 00:11:40,133 leaders around the nation and on -- and from Capitol Hill. 152 00:11:42,166 --> 00:11:45,666 JUDY WOODRUFF: Tough subject, tough -- tough everything right now. It is hard to think 153 00:11:49,633 --> 00:11:53,366 of something uplifting. 154 00:11:53,366 --> 00:11:57,333 But we appreciate both of you. Thank you for being here. Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks, 155 00:11:57,333 --> 00:11:58,333 thank you. 156 00:11:58,333 --> 00:11:58,466 JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Judy.