WEBVTT 00:02.066 --> 00:04.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Now we turn back to the controversy surrounding the confirmation of Supreme Court 00:04.400 --> 00:06.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% nominee Brett Kavanaugh. 00:06.233 --> 00:08.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And to the analysis of Shields and Ponnuru. 00:08.733 --> 00:13.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% That is syndicated columnist Mark Shields and Ramesh Ponnuru of The National Review. 00:13.066 --> 00:14.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% David Brooks is away. 00:14.666 --> 00:15.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Gentlemen, welcome. 00:15.800 --> 00:17.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Let's jump right in. 00:17.833 --> 00:21.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The biggest story of the week, obviously, here in Washington, Judge Kavanaugh, right? 00:21.200 --> 00:25.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We're having this conversation at the unfortunate intersection of high-stakes politics and how 00:25.666 --> 00:27.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% we handle sexual violence in America. 00:27.966 --> 00:31.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Ramesh, the Republicans are in charge here, though, kind of running the show. 00:31.666 --> 00:33.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% How are they handling it? 00:33.833 --> 00:37.400 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% RAMESH PONNURU: Well, I would say that things took a marked turn for the worse when President 00:37.400 --> 00:42.366 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% Trump decided that he was tired of being responsible and sober-minded, which must have chafed, 00:45.033 --> 00:50.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% and instead decided to attack Dr. or Professor Blasey Ford, saying that, if this was a real 00:52.333 --> 00:56.833 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% thing, she should have come forward decades ago, which anybody who's familiar with these 00:56.833 --> 01:00.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% cases understands is not the way these things work. 01:00.933 --> 01:02.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So I think that's a real black mark on the Republicans. 01:02.866 --> 01:06.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I know a lot of Republicans, including Senator Collins, were really smarting over 01:06.900 --> 01:09.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that remark and wanting to distance themselves from it. 01:09.600 --> 01:14.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% On the other hand, you look at the Democrats, and they haven't been covering themselves 01:14.266 --> 01:16.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% in glory either. 01:16.300 --> 01:20.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Senator Feinstein's handling of the allegation, sitting on it for two months, essentially, 01:21.066 --> 01:23.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% was almost inexplicable. 01:23.066 --> 01:26.633 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% And you have got various Senate Democrats who are pre-judging the case, saying that 01:26.633 --> 01:31.633 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% they -- as Senate Republicans, some are, too - - saying that they already believe the allegations 01:32.500 --> 01:33.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% without having heard anything. 01:33.733 --> 01:35.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Mark, what do you make of all this? 01:35.633 --> 01:39.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: Well, let me agree with Ramesh, especially on President Trump. 01:41.000 --> 01:44.600 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If you're a Republican in 2018, and on the eve of an election that is increasingly looking 01:46.666 --> 01:50.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% pessimistic, by numbers and outlook, for the Republicans, the last thing you want to be 01:52.933 --> 01:56.600 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% talking about is women and sexual abuse and recalling of the Anita Hill hearings, and 01:58.666 --> 02:03.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% having as your spokesman a man who has been 19 times accused of sexual abuse or sexual 02:06.766 --> 02:10.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% harassment, the president of the United States, Donald Trump. 02:10.100 --> 02:12.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It's not a message you want, and it's not a messenger. 02:12.766 --> 02:16.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% This is more than about Brett Kavanaugh. 02:16.533 --> 02:21.533 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% This hearing that's coming up is essentially about David against Goliath, against -- we're 02:23.133 --> 02:27.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% going to hear from Professor Ford for the first time. 02:27.033 --> 02:30.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And that will determine how the country responds. 02:30.200 --> 02:35.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But between -- before then, I think the one indicator that has hit me is polls that suggests 02:37.366 --> 02:42.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% that women are more upset about the charges and the response of the Republicans than any 02:43.500 --> 02:45.566 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% other group. 02:45.566 --> 02:49.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And you will recall, in the 2016 election, Donald Trump carried women who had not been 02:50.866 --> 02:54.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to college by a 61 to 34 margin, decisively. 02:54.833 --> 02:57.566 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% Hillary Clinton carried a majority of women who had gone to college. 02:57.566 --> 03:02.533 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% If women in -- the non-college-educated women are responding to this charge and the sense 03:04.533 --> 03:09.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% that something is wrong and that -- that this is a society that is indifferent and intolerant 03:11.033 --> 03:14.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% of women and the abuse they have suffered, this is nothing but bad news for the Republicans. 03:14.933 --> 03:16.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's not where they want to be. 03:16.200 --> 03:17.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: So, how do they handle this? 03:17.833 --> 03:19.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Part of this is about optics, right? 03:19.333 --> 03:22.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I mean, and we're talking there could be a hearing next week. 03:22.300 --> 03:24.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% We don't know where this stands. 03:24.366 --> 03:28.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% You have got three men who could be questioning Dr. Ford who were there back in 1991, right, 03:30.533 --> 03:34.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% questioning Anita Hill, and didn't handle it well back then. 03:34.466 --> 03:36.533 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% How do they move forward? 03:36.533 --> 03:39.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% How did they have the hearing that everyone says they're going to be moving towards to 03:39.933 --> 03:43.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% some degree and not alienate this group that Mark was just talking about? 03:43.800 --> 03:47.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% RAMESH PONNURU: Well, I think one thing we all have to remember is, the optics actually 03:47.433 --> 03:49.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% have to take a backseat to the facts. 03:49.700 --> 03:52.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And it's going to be very hard to determine the facts. 03:52.333 --> 03:56.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But the senators need to go in and be seen to be going in, yes, but mostly to actually 03:56.733 --> 03:58.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% go in, trying to determine the facts. 03:58.833 --> 04:03.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We have got sworn statements now from Judge Kavanaugh, from Mark Judge, from an unnamed 04:03.166 --> 04:05.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% third party. 04:05.300 --> 04:09.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We will presumably get a third -- get a sworn statement from the accuser as well, Professor 04:09.766 --> 04:11.800 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Blasey Ford. 04:11.800 --> 04:14.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And then we're going to have to actually try to do what we can to figure out who's telling 04:14.633 --> 04:16.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% the truth. 04:16.733 --> 04:18.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Do you think that the way they have presented it so far enforces that message 04:18.766 --> 04:21.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% that we take this seriously, we have an intention to get to the bottom of this? 04:21.400 --> 04:24.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% You're hearing some folks, like Mitch McConnell earlier today, we heard him in the show saying, 04:24.733 --> 04:26.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Judge Kavanaugh is going to be confirmed. 04:26.000 --> 04:28.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% RAMESH PONNURU: Right. 04:28.000 --> 04:32.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So I think it's one thing to say that, based on the evidence that you have heard so far, 04:33.366 --> 04:35.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you are inclined to go with one or the other. 04:35.366 --> 04:37.500 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But I think it's a real mistake to close your mind to the possibility that you're going 04:37.500 --> 04:39.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to get new information. 04:39.600 --> 04:42.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If that's the case, then you do have to ask, why are we having any hearings at all? 04:42.333 --> 04:44.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: I want to bring up a poll too. 04:44.033 --> 04:46.333 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% We have got some numbers to look at, Mark, and get your take on these. 04:46.333 --> 04:47.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: Yes. 04:47.333 --> 04:49.300 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% Sure. 04:49.300 --> 04:51.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: This shows publicly, look, there has been an actual increase in opposition 04:51.666 --> 04:55.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to Judge Kavanaugh over the last month, up nine points. 04:55.733 --> 04:57.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% At some point, does he become a political liability? 04:57.966 --> 05:00.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: I'm not sure he's a political liability. 05:00.600 --> 05:04.466 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% I think that the subject is a political liability for Republicans. 05:04.466 --> 05:09.466 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% And, obviously, if he's stayed with and sullied with it, yes, he becomes a political liability. 05:10.900 --> 05:14.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think the hearing is -- Ramesh is right. 05:14.933 --> 05:18.933 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% The Republicans and the Democrats have basically taken their position, put on their uniforms, 05:18.933 --> 05:21.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% or at least the partisans have. 05:21.033 --> 05:25.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The group that has yet to make a decision on this will look at the hearings. 05:25.000 --> 05:27.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And the hearings will be determinate. 05:27.133 --> 05:31.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And it really isn't about Judge Kavanaugh as much as it's about Professor Ford. 05:31.433 --> 05:33.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I mean, is she believable? 05:33.400 --> 05:35.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Is she sympathetic? 05:35.566 --> 05:38.266 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Is she convincing? 05:38.266 --> 05:42.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And the president saying, why didn't she come forward, why didn't she go the FBI when she 05:42.833 --> 05:47.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% was 15 years old, first of all, it's not a - - it's not a -- I'm not sure that we're talking 05:47.700 --> 05:49.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% about a federal offense. 05:49.733 --> 05:53.800 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% But, secondly, I mean, if anything we have learned, through the pain and torment of the 05:55.833 --> 05:59.500 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Catholic clergy sexual abuse, is that people, out of pain, embarrassment, humiliation, a 06:01.966 --> 06:04.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% sense of fear, don't come forward. 06:04.400 --> 06:09.400 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% I mean, the Department of Justice own numbers say that 22 percent of rape victims ever come 06:11.266 --> 06:12.833 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% forward. 06:12.833 --> 06:17.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And so that -- but, really, it is David against Goliath. 06:17.800 --> 06:19.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And the focus is on her. 06:19.466 --> 06:22.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% The question, is she believable? 06:22.266 --> 06:23.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Is she convincing? 06:23.800 --> 06:26.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I wasn't sure that Mark Judge had signed a sworn statement. 06:26.966 --> 06:28.866 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% RAMESH PONNURU: He made a statement to the Judiciary Committee. 06:28.866 --> 06:31.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So, that is a potentially legally actionable document that is... 06:31.933 --> 06:35.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: OK, because he showed no willingness to... 06:35.133 --> 06:37.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% RAMESH PONNURU: He doesn't -- but he doesn't want -- yes, right. 06:37.266 --> 06:37.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: He wrote a book on the subject, but he didn't want to -- he doesn't want to 06:37.933 --> 06:39.400 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% talk about it. 06:39.400 --> 06:41.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% RAMESH PONNURU: He doesn't want to talk about it anymore. 06:41.466 --> 06:42.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: This is the other individual that Dr. Ford says was there in the room that day. 06:42.300 --> 06:44.333 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 06:44.333 --> 06:45.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: And his not testifying, seems to me, absolutely irrational. 06:45.000 --> 06:46.166 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 06:46.166 --> 06:46.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Go ahead, Ramesh, yes. 06:46.966 --> 06:47.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: Sure. 06:47.733 --> 06:49.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 06:49.700 --> 06:51.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% RAMESH PONNURU: One of the things that's most dismaying about this entire debate is that 06:51.766 --> 06:56.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% almost everybody's views about what did or didn't happen 36 years ago lines up perfectly 06:57.733 --> 06:59.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% with what they think ought to happen to Roe v. Wade now. 06:59.866 --> 07:01.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And that's not the way it ought to be. 07:01.966 --> 07:03.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: You're saying it's too political now for anyone to have a real discussion about 07:03.866 --> 07:05.866 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% it. 07:05.866 --> 07:07.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But it is an important discussion, one we're going to continue to have. 07:07.533 --> 07:08.766 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% I want to move on to another story that moved very quickly this week. 07:08.766 --> 07:10.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: OK. 07:10.800 --> 07:12.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: On Monday, President Trump announced he's going to be declassifying a trove of 07:12.533 --> 07:15.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% documents and text messages related to the Russia probe. 07:15.800 --> 07:18.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Today, he backtracked, right? 07:18.266 --> 07:20.833 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% He tweeted a couple of tweets, basically punting to the Department of Justice, say they're 07:20.833 --> 07:24.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% going to review before we take any action here. 07:24.533 --> 07:26.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Ramesh, what happened over the last week? 07:26.933 --> 07:31.333 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% RAMESH PONNURU: Well, there was a lot of pushback against the idea of declassification, particularly 07:31.333 --> 07:36.333 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% the idea of a kind of thorough and unselective and undiscriminate -- indiscriminate declassification. 07:38.400 --> 07:42.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But, look, the president has a dysfunctional relationship with his Justice Department. 07:43.500 --> 07:44.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% We know that. 07:44.700 --> 07:46.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We have known that for some time. 07:46.633 --> 07:49.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I think this is just one more instance of that happening, and another instance of 07:49.233 --> 07:51.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% his making a grand statement, and then not following through. 07:51.800 --> 07:54.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Mark, what is your take? 07:54.266 --> 07:56.733 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: We're reviewing publicly the education or limited education of Donald Trump. 07:56.733 --> 08:01.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I mean, he learned this week from allies, from very important sources within his -- the 08:03.800 --> 08:08.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% United States government who he has to trust that this is bad -- bad policy, that what 08:10.066 --> 08:13.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you're doing is, you're not simply revealing secrets. 08:13.033 --> 08:18.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% You're compromising sources, and that collection of intelligence is dependent upon a network 08:20.033 --> 08:24.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% of relationships, of trust, of belief, of confidence that you're not going to be made 08:24.833 --> 08:26.833 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% public. 08:26.833 --> 08:30.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And allies just -- among others, just told Donald Trump, this is just an absolute reckless 08:32.266 --> 08:34.400 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% risk. 08:34.400 --> 08:38.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And sources within his own administration, important figures, stood up on this. 08:38.533 --> 08:40.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And I think that's -- that that's what happened. 08:40.566 --> 08:44.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: So, President Trump is going to loom large over the midterms, right, just 08:44.000 --> 08:45.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% a few weeks away right now. 08:45.466 --> 08:47.133 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: He is. 08:47.133 --> 08:48.533 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Things have shifted dramatically over the last few weeks. 08:48.533 --> 08:49.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Where are we now? 08:49.733 --> 08:51.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% What's it looking like for Republicans? 08:51.700 --> 08:55.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: I think -- I think it's the - - it's bleaker for Republicans than it was 08:55.366 --> 08:57.466 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% a week ago. 08:57.466 --> 09:01.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And this is in spite of the fact that the stock market is an all-time high, that, among 09:03.433 --> 09:07.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% other factors, the lowest number of people in America applied for unemployment benefits 09:07.233 --> 09:12.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% in any year since 1968, when the economy was one-half its size and number of jobs. 09:14.233 --> 09:17.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% But Donald Trump is toxic. 09:17.600 --> 09:21.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He -- American voters do not like him. 09:21.400 --> 09:26.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% When asked a very simple question, I like blank and agree with most of his policies, 09:26.166 --> 09:31.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I would like and don't agree with the policy, I dislike blank and agree with policies, dislike 09:33.366 --> 09:38.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% him and agree with his policies, 70 percent of Americans say they do not like Donald Trump. 09:40.300 --> 09:44.366 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% I contrast this with Ronald Reagan, who had far worse economic conditions in 1982, when 09:46.400 --> 09:50.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% the prime interest rate was at 21.5 percent, unemployment was the highest since the Great 09:50.000 --> 09:51.433 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Depression. 09:51.433 --> 09:55.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And Ronald Reagan, 70 percent of Americans liked him. 09:55.733 --> 09:58.200 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% And that is what they're finding. 09:58.200 --> 10:02.833 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% This is a referendum, the midterm election is a referendum on the president, on his performance, 10:03.566 --> 10:05.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% but on the man himself. 10:05.000 --> 10:08.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And that's why Reagan kept Republican losses low that year. 10:08.166 --> 10:11.766 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% And that's why Trump is really a problem for Republicans this year. 10:11.766 --> 10:15.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They have to defend him or alienate him. 10:15.300 --> 10:18.900 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% And three-quarters of the Republican candidates who are running for reelection have never 10:18.900 --> 10:21.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% run with a Republican in the White House. 10:21.200 --> 10:24.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They have always run against Barack Obama, all right? 10:24.733 --> 10:26.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Three-quarters were elected since Barack Obama. 10:26.033 --> 10:28.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And that's a liberating thing. 10:28.033 --> 10:31.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It's very defensive when you're trying to defend what Donald Trump did, for example, 10:31.466 --> 10:33.166 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% on tweets. 10:33.166 --> 10:34.400 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Ramesh, very quickly, less than a minute left. 10:34.400 --> 10:36.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Is it as bad as he says for Republicans? 10:36.533 --> 10:38.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% RAMESH PONNURU: Look, midterm elections usually go badly for the party that has the White 10:38.766 --> 10:43.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% House, because the opposition is revved up and your side is complacent. 10:43.033 --> 10:45.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Trump's making both of those problems worse. 10:45.033 --> 10:48.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% He's revved up the opposition and he's telling his side, this is all propaganda. 10:48.733 --> 10:50.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The elections are going swimmingly. 10:50.266 --> 10:51.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Don't worry about it. 10:51.566 --> 10:54.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The combination is one that is very damaging. 10:54.133 --> 10:58.933 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% And if they abandon -- if they allow Kavanaugh to go down to defeat with uncorroborated allegations, 11:00.200 --> 11:02.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the demoralization could get worse. 11:02.266 --> 11:04.500 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: So is this the choice, as Mark said, alienate him or support him, say you're 11:04.500 --> 11:06.500 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% with him? 11:06.500 --> 11:09.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% RAMESH PONNURU: Well, if I were a Republican running for office, what I would want to do 11:09.000 --> 11:12.700 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% is talk about the economic conditions, talk about other kinds of -- talk about controversies 11:12.700 --> 11:17.666 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% that play to you, and try to keep Trump out of the conversation as much as possible, because 11:17.666 --> 11:21.500 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% you face that constant problem, which, he's still an unpopular president. 11:21.500 --> 11:22.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Ramesh Ponnuru, Mark Shields, good to talk to you. 11:22.500 --> 11:22.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: Thank you, Amna.