WEBVTT 00:00.633 --> 00:03.403 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% [upbeat music] 00:03.503 --> 00:05.438 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - [Narrator] This is NC Spin. 00:05.538 --> 00:07.841 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% An unrehearsed discussion on issues of interest 00:07.941 --> 00:09.275 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% to North Carolinian. 00:09.376 --> 00:12.078 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Now, here is your moderator, Tom Campbell. 00:12.178 --> 00:13.580 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% [upbeat music] 00:13.680 --> 00:17.017 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% - Thank you for tuning in this special edition of NC Spin. 00:17.117 --> 00:19.185 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% Everything else about 2020 has been strange, 00:19.285 --> 00:21.654 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% so we wanted to try to put things in perspective. 00:21.755 --> 00:24.057 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% This show is gonna take a look at North Carolina 00:24.157 --> 00:26.826 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% yesterday, today and tomorrow. 00:26.926 --> 00:28.795 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We're fortunate to have a special panel 00:28.895 --> 00:30.730 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% to help us in getting that perspective. 00:30.830 --> 00:32.532 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So let's introduce them to you. 00:32.632 --> 00:34.000 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% We began with Mike Walden, 00:34.100 --> 00:36.536 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% who is the William Neal Reynolds distinguished 00:36.636 --> 00:40.006 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Professor of economics at NC State University. 00:40.106 --> 00:43.309 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Jim Leloudis, who is an Associate Dean of Honors 00:43.410 --> 00:46.579 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and a History Professor at UNC in Chapel Hill 00:46.679 --> 00:48.848 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and director of the James Johnson Center 00:48.948 --> 00:50.283 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% for Graduate Excellence. 00:50.383 --> 00:52.252 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% And they're joined by as usual 00:52.352 --> 00:55.455 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% John Hood, syndicated columnist and author 00:55.555 --> 00:58.858 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and Chris Fitzsimon Director of the State's Newsroom. 00:58.958 --> 01:01.161 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We're gonna begin our uninterrupted discussion 01:01.261 --> 01:04.731 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% after these brief messages from our underwriters. 01:04.831 --> 01:07.467 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% - [Narrator] Farmville steeped in Eastern Carolina tradition 01:07.567 --> 01:09.002 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% yet surprisingly sophisticated. 01:09.102 --> 01:11.171 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% In Farmville, find a French bakery, 01:11.271 --> 01:12.939 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% a furniture, school glassblowing, 01:13.039 --> 01:14.607 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% great shops and restaurants. 01:14.707 --> 01:17.343 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% East of I-95, in the middle of everything, 01:17.444 --> 01:19.045 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% find it first in Farmville. 01:20.246 --> 01:21.915 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% - In more than 21 years on NC Spin, 01:22.015 --> 01:24.217 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% I never endorsed a product or sponsor, 01:24.317 --> 01:26.152 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% but I volunteered to do this message 01:26.252 --> 01:28.054 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% for Family Physicians. 01:28.154 --> 01:29.456 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Over the past 40 years, 01:29.556 --> 01:32.258 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% my family doctor could quickly diagnose my illnesses 01:32.358 --> 01:34.327 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% because he knew my medical history. 01:34.427 --> 01:36.362 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Evidence suggests I'll live longer, 01:36.463 --> 01:37.864 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% have a higher quality of life 01:37.964 --> 01:40.567 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and save 33% on healthcare costs. 01:40.667 --> 01:42.569 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I believe in my trusted relationship 01:42.669 --> 01:44.170 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% with my family physician. 01:44.270 --> 01:45.371 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - [ Narrator] Family Physicians, 01:45.472 --> 01:47.807 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% your trusted healthcare advisor for life. 01:50.543 --> 01:53.813 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - Your life is more flexible and efficient than ever. 01:53.913 --> 01:55.381 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And your energy is too. 01:55.482 --> 01:57.517 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% See how North Carolina's electric cooperatives 01:57.617 --> 01:59.152 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% are building a brighter future 01:59.252 --> 02:00.887 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% for the rural communities we serve. 02:00.987 --> 02:04.991 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% @ncelectricCooperatives.com/Bri. 02:05.091 --> 02:06.626 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% - Let's begin the Spin. 02:06.726 --> 02:09.162 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'd like for us to focus our comments on this show 02:09.262 --> 02:11.898 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% on the period BC, before COVID 02:11.998 --> 02:13.366 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% WC with COVID 02:13.466 --> 02:15.535 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% and AC after COVID. 02:15.635 --> 02:17.303 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Not so much for the acronyms. 02:17.403 --> 02:18.771 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Let's get started. 02:18.872 --> 02:19.906 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% Jim Leloudis, 02:20.006 --> 02:22.075 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% North Carolina's history has experienced 02:22.175 --> 02:23.877 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% many significant events. 02:23.977 --> 02:25.678 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% I'm thinking about civil war, 02:25.778 --> 02:28.681 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% reconstruction, the 1918 Spanish flu, 02:28.781 --> 02:30.016 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% the great depression. 02:30.116 --> 02:31.584 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And prior to March of this year, 02:31.684 --> 02:34.387 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% where would you say we were historically? 02:35.788 --> 02:37.257 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Well, well Tom, you decide to start 02:37.357 --> 02:38.825 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% with the easy question first, right? 02:38.925 --> 02:40.360 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% - Of course yes, yes. 02:40.460 --> 02:43.463 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - Yeah, I think I'll take you up on where you started that. 02:43.563 --> 02:47.767 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I would go back to 1868 in the middle of reconstruction 02:47.867 --> 02:50.136 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and the rather extraordinary election 02:50.236 --> 02:52.405 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% that happened that year. 02:52.505 --> 02:53.573 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% In that election, 02:53.673 --> 02:57.577 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% a new biracial alliance of former slaves 02:57.677 --> 02:59.045 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% and white allies 02:59.145 --> 03:01.781 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% formed the state's newly established Republican Party. 03:01.881 --> 03:05.518 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Won, 107 of 120 seats 03:05.618 --> 03:07.620 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% in a constitutional convention 03:07.720 --> 03:09.689 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% called at the instruction of Congress 03:09.789 --> 03:11.558 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that to draft a new constitution 03:11.658 --> 03:14.727 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that would bring North Carolina back into the union. 03:14.827 --> 03:17.697 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And the document they produced was remarkable. 03:17.797 --> 03:19.532 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% It guaranteed free elections. 03:19.632 --> 03:23.169 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% It afforded every adult male citizen the right to vote. 03:23.269 --> 03:25.138 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It did away with property requirements 03:25.238 --> 03:28.675 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for running for high office in North Carolina. 03:28.775 --> 03:32.378 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And for the first time in this State's history, 03:32.478 --> 03:34.447 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% created a system of elected 03:34.547 --> 03:36.950 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% rather than appointed County Government. 03:37.050 --> 03:38.618 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I mean, what they were framing there 03:38.718 --> 03:42.155 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% was a radically inclusive and democratic vision 03:42.255 --> 03:44.657 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% of the state's future, but it didn't last. 03:44.757 --> 03:47.360 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Right, The fusion government, yeah. 03:47.460 --> 03:50.063 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Yeah, it was challenged by opponents 03:50.163 --> 03:52.465 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and this went on over a period of 35 years 03:52.565 --> 03:55.435 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% actually following reconstruction challenged that, 03:55.535 --> 03:59.839 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that vision and wanted to restore political 03:59.939 --> 04:02.442 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and economic order in which power and wealth 04:02.542 --> 04:04.911 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% were concentrated in the hands of the few. 04:05.011 --> 04:06.446 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And they talked in ways 04:06.546 --> 04:08.014 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% that we're familiar with today 04:08.114 --> 04:11.784 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% with appeals to issues of voter fraud and corruption, 04:11.884 --> 04:14.420 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% much of it couched and thinly veiled 04:14.520 --> 04:17.557 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% more often than not explicit racial appeals. 04:17.657 --> 04:20.326 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And the consequences for this state were, 04:20.426 --> 04:21.761 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% were profound and tragic. 04:21.861 --> 04:24.664 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So bring us up to where we were in January, 04:24.764 --> 04:25.598 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% February and March. 04:25.698 --> 04:27.567 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% How would you describe us then? 04:27.667 --> 04:29.035 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - All right. So this is, you know, 04:29.135 --> 04:31.571 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% the beginning of what we know is the system of Jim Crow 04:31.671 --> 04:33.806 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and blacks, and second class citizenship, 04:33.906 --> 04:36.309 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% very poverty for the state overall, 04:36.409 --> 04:38.511 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and some ways that you could think of it as a bad movie 04:38.611 --> 04:40.013 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% that runs again and again. 04:40.113 --> 04:43.716 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And I think in some ways on the edge of the pandemic, 04:43.816 --> 04:45.985 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% we were in one of those sequels 04:46.085 --> 04:47.520 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% and in some respects, 04:47.620 --> 04:51.424 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% the pandemic really laid bare the issues that were at stake. 04:52.458 --> 04:54.460 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - That's a very good enough, 04:54.560 --> 04:56.229 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Frankly I was wondering where you were going there 04:56.329 --> 04:57.597 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and how long it was going to take to get there, 04:57.697 --> 04:59.232 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but you did a good job of getting me there. 04:59.332 --> 05:00.700 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% Thank you. 05:00.800 --> 05:03.236 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Mike, let's look at a similar progression economically. 05:03.336 --> 05:04.671 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% at various times in history, 05:04.771 --> 05:06.706 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% we've been known as the rip van winkle state, 05:06.806 --> 05:08.174 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% because of our sluggish economy 05:08.274 --> 05:11.044 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% also is the Dixie Dynamo. 05:11.144 --> 05:14.447 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We were hard hit during the great recession of 2008. 05:14.547 --> 05:16.349 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% How would you describe our economy 05:16.449 --> 05:18.918 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% prior to March of this year? 05:19.018 --> 05:21.387 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Very good. Basically, very, very good. 05:21.487 --> 05:25.525 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% All the metrics for the state look very well, 05:25.625 --> 05:28.761 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% unemployment under 4%, we had a growth rate, 05:28.861 --> 05:31.431 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% a little under the national average, but a growth rate. 05:31.531 --> 05:32.398 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% That was good. 05:33.566 --> 05:35.635 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% In fact, we had been the longest period of time 05:35.735 --> 05:36.569 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% in our history 05:36.669 --> 05:38.271 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% since the previous recession, 05:38.371 --> 05:39.839 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and then all that collapsed with the, 05:39.939 --> 05:41.474 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% with the advent of COVID. 05:41.574 --> 05:45.378 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We have suffered through COVID similarly to the nation, 05:45.478 --> 05:47.180 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% big drop in the second quarter, 05:47.280 --> 05:48.681 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% we think we're going to have our big rebound 05:48.781 --> 05:50.850 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% in the third quarter. We don't have those numbers yet. 05:50.950 --> 05:52.251 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - [Mark] Yeah I'll get there in a minute 05:52.352 --> 05:54.053 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% - I think we are in a recovery now, but it's slowing. 05:54.153 --> 05:55.655 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% - Politically John, 05:55.755 --> 05:58.057 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% we've always been a pretty conservative state, 05:59.225 --> 06:00.059 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% politically. 06:01.494 --> 06:04.230 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We went through a period in the sixties with Terry Sanford 06:04.330 --> 06:06.899 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and then with Jim hunt and so forth like that, 06:06.999 --> 06:09.669 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where we became a little bit more progressive. 06:10.903 --> 06:12.805 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Where would you say we were politically 06:12.905 --> 06:14.674 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% prior to this election? 06:15.908 --> 06:18.211 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - North Carolina was, and, and, 06:18.311 --> 06:23.316 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and certainly was in early 2020 a center right state. 06:24.717 --> 06:27.220 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% A state where many more people would identify themselves 06:27.320 --> 06:29.756 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% as conservatives than as progressives, 06:29.856 --> 06:32.492 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but also a state that was changing demographically 06:32.592 --> 06:33.960 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% and politically. 06:34.060 --> 06:37.497 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It wasn't that long ago when the Republicans first rose into 06:37.597 --> 06:39.599 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% a competitive position North Carolina, 06:39.699 --> 06:41.701 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which really only started in the seventies, 06:41.801 --> 06:44.437 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% it strengthened was actually in urban areas 06:44.537 --> 06:47.006 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and some mountain counties that had always been Republican, 06:47.106 --> 06:49.675 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but it was really urban areas, suburban communities, 06:49.776 --> 06:51.110 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% where the Republicans had a lot of strength. 06:51.210 --> 06:53.012 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% They struggled to win in the rural areas 06:53.112 --> 06:53.980 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% that were still democratic. 06:54.080 --> 06:56.449 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Well, obviously that situation 06:56.549 --> 06:59.152 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% prior to COVID had already begun to change. 06:59.252 --> 07:01.621 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% It began to change even before the Trump phenomenon. 07:01.721 --> 07:05.158 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And now what we have is a closely divided electorate where 07:05.258 --> 07:08.728 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% either party can win most state offices. 07:08.828 --> 07:11.364 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And in fact, we saw this year that they'll, 07:11.464 --> 07:12.565 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% that some voters 07:12.665 --> 07:14.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% will split their tickets between them still. 07:14.100 --> 07:16.602 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - And we'll get to that in just a few minutes. 07:16.702 --> 07:19.372 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Y'all are trying to get ahead of me here. 07:19.472 --> 07:21.040 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Chris, so far as it goes, 07:21.140 --> 07:23.109 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% John alluded to the fact that we've had great 07:23.209 --> 07:26.646 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% population increases at least a hundred thousand per year. 07:26.746 --> 07:29.515 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Where are these people coming from and, and where, 07:29.615 --> 07:33.586 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% how had they changed North Carolina on March 1st? 07:33.686 --> 07:35.688 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% - Well, they're coming from all over the United States 07:35.788 --> 07:38.191 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and we continue to be one of the faster growing 07:38.291 --> 07:40.893 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% States in the country. They're coming to our urban areas, 07:40.993 --> 07:42.628 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% increasingly our suburban areas. 07:42.728 --> 07:43.896 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I think professor Leloudis 07:43.996 --> 07:45.298 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% to sit on a great word to think about though, 07:45.398 --> 07:47.300 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% where we were before the, before COVID 07:47.400 --> 07:50.503 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we were living through the sequel of sort of precariousness 07:50.603 --> 07:53.239 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% where the COVID exposed all these faults 07:53.339 --> 07:55.608 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that were already there along racial and economic lines, 07:55.708 --> 07:58.478 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% even though the economy is doing well as Dr. Walden says, 07:58.578 --> 08:00.079 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% there's a big swath of North Carolina 08:00.179 --> 08:03.516 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that wasn't doing well, largely African-American, 08:03.616 --> 08:06.853 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but also poor white, struggling white families, 08:06.953 --> 08:08.688 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% who are sort of right for the populism 08:08.788 --> 08:10.723 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% that has sort of invaded our country. 08:10.823 --> 08:13.426 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And the last point I'll make is where we were pre COVID 08:13.526 --> 08:14.927 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% is a coalition 08:15.027 --> 08:16.462 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I think the Republican party has made with sort of the 08:16.562 --> 08:18.998 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% more extreme elements I've talked often on the show, 08:19.098 --> 08:20.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% whether it was the tea party movement, 08:20.533 --> 08:22.401 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the nullification rallies, or the legislature, 08:22.502 --> 08:24.303 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% all this stuff was sorta underneath 08:24.403 --> 08:26.205 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and Republicans were holding it at arm's edge. 08:26.305 --> 08:28.374 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And Donald Trump has sort of brought it into the mainstream. 08:28.474 --> 08:30.209 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And I think that's why in North Carolina 08:30.309 --> 08:31.677 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% and across the country, 08:31.777 --> 08:33.813 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% now we're really struggling with how our democracy rolls on 08:33.913 --> 08:36.115 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% after this is tumultuous time. 08:36.215 --> 08:38.050 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - Mike in March of this year, 08:38.150 --> 08:41.354 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% our unemployment rate was 4.4%. 08:41.454 --> 08:44.624 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We had come through the great recession. 08:44.724 --> 08:47.560 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We were making nice recovery in North Carolina. 08:47.660 --> 08:50.663 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% In fact, I think he'd been on our show not too long ago, 08:50.763 --> 08:54.467 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% talking about we were into this recovery prior 08:54.567 --> 08:56.435 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to the beginning of COVID, right? 08:57.670 --> 08:58.971 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% - That's right. 08:59.071 --> 09:01.140 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% We had again done very, very well 09:01.240 --> 09:03.042 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% in the years between the great recession 09:03.142 --> 09:06.178 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and the start of COVID when I did your show a year ago, 09:06.279 --> 09:08.514 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I was talking about 2020 being another growth year, 09:08.614 --> 09:11.884 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% sending more records and COVID has set us back. 09:11.984 --> 09:12.919 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% I don't think it's, 09:13.019 --> 09:14.220 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% I don't think it set us back 09:14.320 --> 09:16.188 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% necessarily in terms of our fundamentals. 09:16.289 --> 09:17.924 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I think North Carolina is going to come out of this, 09:18.024 --> 09:20.760 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% looking to be what I would call a safe state. 09:20.860 --> 09:24.297 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I think we could benefit from being a state that yes, 09:24.397 --> 09:28.067 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% has a range of, of locations from density to low density. 09:28.167 --> 09:31.404 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I think we can attract businesses and people from 09:31.504 --> 09:33.339 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% some of the regions that are really suffered like the, 09:33.439 --> 09:36.042 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% like the Northeast I've been told by state officials 09:36.142 --> 09:38.544 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that we continue to get calls from businesses. 09:38.644 --> 09:41.647 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We had some very good announcements the other day. 09:41.747 --> 09:45.418 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I do think the key in, in the future is going to be, 09:45.518 --> 09:47.520 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we're going to have to have a massive retraining 09:47.620 --> 09:49.789 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% for the jobs that were lost, all aren't coming back. 09:49.889 --> 09:51.791 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We're going to have a different set of jobs. 09:51.891 --> 09:53.593 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And I think we need to think very hard about 09:53.693 --> 09:55.861 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% how are we going to retrain workers. 09:55.962 --> 09:57.897 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think a lot of that's going to be done by businesses, 09:57.997 --> 09:59.865 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% apprenticeship, certificates, et cetera. 09:59.966 --> 10:02.068 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Yeah, you guys want to keep taking me to 10:02.168 --> 10:03.536 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% North Carolina tomorrow. 10:03.636 --> 10:07.039 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Let's, let's focus on let's focus on yesterday. 10:07.139 --> 10:08.541 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Historically Jim, 10:09.475 --> 10:11.744 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% would you say that the, 10:11.844 --> 10:15.181 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the big that history will say that North Carolina 10:15.281 --> 10:18.451 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% had resolved many of its problems. 10:18.551 --> 10:20.353 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I know that you've written a book about race, 10:20.453 --> 10:22.054 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we're going to talk about it a little while. 10:22.154 --> 10:25.725 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% But would you say we've resolved many of our problems 10:25.825 --> 10:27.460 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% or that there were fundamentally, 10:27.560 --> 10:30.830 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% there were still history problems that were nagging us? 10:32.031 --> 10:33.466 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Yeah. You know, 10:33.566 --> 10:35.701 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I wish that I could say that we hit resolved and I mean, 10:35.801 --> 10:39.305 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% certainly things are better today than they were in 1960. 10:39.405 --> 10:43.209 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% But, you know, even in terms of their recovery pre-COVID, 10:43.309 --> 10:45.978 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I think it's been important to recognize the degree to which 10:46.078 --> 10:48.347 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% that was quite uneven. 10:48.447 --> 10:50.816 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It was still the case that we had state, 10:50.916 --> 10:54.020 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% counties in this state, in which up to 40% 10:54.120 --> 10:57.189 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% of children lived in poverty. 10:57.289 --> 10:59.592 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And right before the pandemic, I think we all remember, 10:59.692 --> 11:00.960 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% well, several years ago, you know, 11:01.060 --> 11:03.729 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that study that pointed out that Charlotte 11:04.730 --> 11:05.931 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% had the 11:06.032 --> 11:09.368 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% lowest social mobility rate 11:09.468 --> 11:11.537 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% of any Metro area in the United States. 11:11.637 --> 11:13.105 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Moving up economically. 11:13.205 --> 11:16.008 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - Yeah moving apart, if you were born into poverty. 11:16.108 --> 11:18.277 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So yes, I mean the streets made great advances. 11:18.377 --> 11:19.645 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% There's no denying that, 11:19.745 --> 11:22.815 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but they are still deep-rooted rooted problems 11:22.915 --> 11:24.550 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that, you know, derived from our history 11:24.650 --> 11:26.285 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% that remain very much in front of us. 11:26.385 --> 11:28.387 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - All right, well, let's move into North Carolina today. 11:28.487 --> 11:29.889 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Going into this year, 11:29.989 --> 11:32.992 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% we believe the big story was going to be the election. 11:33.092 --> 11:34.894 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Who knew, prior to March 11:34.994 --> 11:39.231 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% nobody knew anything about Corona virus or COVID-19 11:39.331 --> 11:42.134 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% After recording our first cases in early March, 11:42.234 --> 11:45.738 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% our state like the rest of the world, changed. 11:45.838 --> 11:47.306 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Jim, perhaps it's trite, 11:47.406 --> 11:50.342 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% but we've never seen anything like this before staying home, 11:50.443 --> 11:54.714 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% virtual work, learning, work and learning, 11:54.814 --> 11:56.215 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% shopping, and travel. 11:56.315 --> 12:00.019 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% How's history, going to record our reaction to COVID-19. 12:01.587 --> 12:02.955 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Well, you know, 12:03.055 --> 12:05.224 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I guess I'll keep up my bad meta... movie metaphor. 12:05.324 --> 12:08.894 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% We've been through this once before it was in 1918-1919, 12:08.994 --> 12:10.863 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% in Spanish flu pandemic. 12:10.963 --> 12:13.699 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% And what's interesting there is the parallels. 12:13.799 --> 12:15.534 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% There was an anti mask movement. 12:15.634 --> 12:17.069 align:left position:32.5% line:5% size:57.5% Woodrow Wilson, 12:17.169 --> 12:19.572 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% president of the United States never said one word in public 12:19.672 --> 12:22.475 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% about the flu. We were in a war. 12:22.575 --> 12:25.878 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He worried that it would be a sign of weakness. 12:25.978 --> 12:29.782 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And the pandemic, developed in exactly the same way. 12:29.882 --> 12:31.217 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% A relatively mild, 12:31.317 --> 12:33.819 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% at least in terms of what was about to come 12:33.919 --> 12:36.388 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% outbreak and like May to July 12:36.489 --> 12:39.458 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and then an absolute whirlwind of death 12:40.426 --> 12:43.129 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% between September and December. 12:43.229 --> 12:45.297 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Before it was over about a fifth of all North Carolinas, 12:45.397 --> 12:48.267 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% in North Carolina and had gotten the flu, 12:48.367 --> 12:50.469 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% about 14,000 died. 12:50.569 --> 12:55.107 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And the racial disparities, were almost exactly 12:55.207 --> 12:57.209 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% the same as they are today. 12:57.309 --> 12:58.444 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Mike... 12:58.544 --> 12:59.779 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - So that piece of it's pretty sobering. 12:59.879 --> 13:01.614 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Mike, as you, we've talked about, 13:01.714 --> 13:04.683 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% the economy was staging a recovery 13:04.784 --> 13:05.918 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% from the great recession. 13:06.018 --> 13:07.486 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Then things should shut down. 13:07.586 --> 13:09.855 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Where are we economically today? 13:11.023 --> 13:12.158 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Well, I think we were at a recovery. 13:12.258 --> 13:13.592 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% I mean, technically 13:13.692 --> 13:14.493 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% we don't have the numbers from North Carolina 13:14.593 --> 13:15.761 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% for the third quarter, 13:15.861 --> 13:17.029 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% but I think you can look at job numbers. 13:17.129 --> 13:18.464 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% We've been steadily increasing. 13:18.564 --> 13:21.167 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% We have the big gains and the late summer. 13:21.267 --> 13:24.937 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% The gains have narrowed. I think right now we could go, 13:25.037 --> 13:27.339 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% we could, we, I would expect to see growth continue, 13:27.439 --> 13:29.341 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but I am worried about the surge right now. 13:29.441 --> 13:31.243 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Probably slowing things down, 13:31.343 --> 13:32.878 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% but I think we're past the worst. 13:32.978 --> 13:36.682 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And the question now is how long will it take to get back 13:36.782 --> 13:38.450 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% to where we were pre-COVID 13:38.551 --> 13:40.753 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and what kind of criminate changes 13:40.853 --> 13:42.221 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% that will, that will occur. 13:42.321 --> 13:43.789 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - John, you've written some about this 13:43.889 --> 13:45.224 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in some of your columns, 13:45.324 --> 13:46.959 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% North Carolina has changed. 13:47.059 --> 13:50.129 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We've changed from the standpoint of, family gathering, 13:50.229 --> 13:53.299 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% so far as work, So far as shopping. 13:53.399 --> 13:55.301 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Many of the traditional 13:55.401 --> 13:58.170 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% activities we've enjoyed have changed. 13:59.371 --> 14:02.141 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Would you agree that So far as it goes, 14:02.241 --> 14:05.411 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% whether these changes have been good or bad. 14:05.511 --> 14:08.914 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% They've made an impact and possibly we'll go forward. 14:09.014 --> 14:11.317 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% - They've certainly made an impact. 14:11.417 --> 14:13.152 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% They have been largely negative, 14:13.252 --> 14:16.488 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% but not entirely negative, as Mike was alluding to. 14:16.589 --> 14:19.925 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% There's a lot of question marks now about how much of this 14:20.025 --> 14:23.295 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is a temporary phenomenon that people will gladly 14:23.395 --> 14:25.664 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% put behind them in the rear view mirror, 14:25.764 --> 14:28.667 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% as they raced forward, things they were going to do in May 14:28.767 --> 14:30.836 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% they'll do next spring, that sort of thing. 14:30.936 --> 14:34.773 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Or are some of these changes, in the case of the workplace 14:34.874 --> 14:37.610 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and commuting patterns and education 14:37.710 --> 14:40.012 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% are some of these changes lasting one of the biggest 14:40.112 --> 14:42.081 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% differences between pre-COVID 14:42.181 --> 14:46.318 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the COVID experience we're now in, is traffic. 14:46.418 --> 14:47.553 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - There's simply a lot less traffic 14:47.653 --> 14:49.288 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% in our metropolitan areas. 14:49.388 --> 14:50.489 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% Now on the one hand, 14:50.589 --> 14:52.791 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% if you are out driving, this is delightful. 14:52.892 --> 14:55.227 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% On the other hand, it tells you something about 14:55.327 --> 14:57.596 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% not just that people are staying at home 14:57.696 --> 14:59.598 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and doing work from home, they are, 14:59.698 --> 15:02.801 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but there is somewhat less activity happening 15:02.902 --> 15:04.370 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% than there was before. 15:04.470 --> 15:07.239 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I think that is largely a fleeting phenomenon, 15:07.339 --> 15:09.909 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but some of these things will probably become probable. 15:10.009 --> 15:12.011 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - I was going to say, you get on our four lane roads, 15:12.111 --> 15:15.147 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% like 70 and 95 and 40 and so forth like that, 15:15.247 --> 15:17.249 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there's a lot of traffic, but I do think Chris, 15:17.349 --> 15:18.550 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% we can agree that 15:18.651 --> 15:21.120 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% everybody would like to put this behind us. 15:21.220 --> 15:22.755 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Looking however, at Government, 15:22.855 --> 15:25.891 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and that's something we talk quite a bit about on NC Spin. 15:25.991 --> 15:30.129 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Our governments have, have really experienced some, 15:30.229 --> 15:33.265 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% some phenomenon that are, that are unusual to us. 15:33.365 --> 15:34.667 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% For one thing, 15:34.767 --> 15:38.437 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we had really stark differences between the legislature 15:38.537 --> 15:41.740 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and the Governor during this, this crisis. 15:41.840 --> 15:43.008 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Would you agree? 15:43.108 --> 15:44.476 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% - Well, I would agree, 15:44.576 --> 15:46.378 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but I think it reflects sort of our national division about, 15:46.478 --> 15:49.481 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% I think there is a strong argument to be made that the, the, 15:49.581 --> 15:52.251 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% the economy was never going to recover until we got control 15:52.351 --> 15:53.519 align:left position:35% line:5% size:55% of the virus. 15:53.619 --> 15:56.655 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I think we all, nobody thought we could stay 15:56.755 --> 15:59.124 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% sort of sequestered in our home the entire time, 15:59.224 --> 16:02.294 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% but there's just a lot of data sets that have shown recently 16:02.394 --> 16:04.697 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that States that had masked mandates early on, for example, 16:04.797 --> 16:07.066 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% have done better than States that have no restrict, 16:07.166 --> 16:08.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that had no restrictions at all. 16:08.701 --> 16:11.070 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% But masks had to deal with this all became 16:11.170 --> 16:12.438 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% a political football. 16:12.538 --> 16:14.606 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Maybe that was to be expected in a political year, 16:14.707 --> 16:15.774 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% but I don't think it did, 16:15.874 --> 16:18.410 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% it did us as a service as a community. 16:18.510 --> 16:20.713 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% And I also think it's hard to talk about any of these issues 16:20.813 --> 16:23.782 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% in the abstract. And I know we were a North Carolina show, 16:23.882 --> 16:25.017 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% but you know, we have, 16:25.117 --> 16:26.785 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% we have no national leadership at all 16:26.885 --> 16:28.921 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that helped unify the country and bring us together. 16:29.021 --> 16:31.623 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% In fact, it polarizes further in North Carolina, 16:31.724 --> 16:34.660 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% it made it much more difficult for politicians on both sides 16:34.760 --> 16:36.996 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to talk plainly to people about what was expected, 16:37.096 --> 16:38.664 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% how we could help, how government can help. 16:38.764 --> 16:41.767 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% It's really been a frustrating experience to watch our state 16:41.867 --> 16:42.968 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% ripped in half. 16:43.068 --> 16:45.404 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Mike, is there any economic sector 16:45.504 --> 16:48.507 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% that either suffered more than another 16:48.607 --> 16:52.611 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or benefited more than another from this virus? 16:52.711 --> 16:53.846 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% - Well, I think technology 16:53.946 --> 16:55.280 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% has been a point to benefit has benefited 16:55.381 --> 16:57.516 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and will continue to benefit because of things like 16:57.616 --> 16:59.318 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% what we're doing right now. 16:59.418 --> 17:00.819 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% In terms of suffering certainly. 17:00.919 --> 17:03.956 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Businesses and sectors that rely a lot on 17:04.056 --> 17:06.258 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% in-person contact, 17:06.358 --> 17:08.460 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% tourism, restaurants, 17:08.560 --> 17:09.728 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% hospitality, et cetera. 17:09.828 --> 17:12.598 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I think those are going to fundamentally change 17:12.698 --> 17:14.366 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% probably fewer people in them. 17:14.466 --> 17:18.337 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And finally, if we see remote working really take off, 17:18.437 --> 17:21.306 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% think of what's going to happen to office complexes and all, 17:21.407 --> 17:24.877 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and offices that have the, the janitors, the, 17:24.977 --> 17:28.380 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the secretarial staff, the, the surrounding restaurants 17:28.480 --> 17:30.849 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% that feed those folks during noon, 17:30.949 --> 17:32.251 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% they're going to suffer immensely. 17:32.351 --> 17:34.253 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Jim, how is history going to record 17:34.353 --> 17:37.089 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% North Carolina's reaction to the elections? 17:37.189 --> 17:38.791 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% What we did in the elections? 17:40.292 --> 17:41.527 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Yeah. Well, I mean, I, you know, 17:41.627 --> 17:44.797 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% in part I'd go back to some things that, yeah, 17:44.897 --> 17:47.466 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Chris had, Chris had said. 17:47.566 --> 17:49.601 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Look, I mean, we're, we're a deeply divided state 17:49.701 --> 17:51.837 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and we've always been a purple State. 17:51.937 --> 17:53.372 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I mean, that's, what's interesting about 17:53.472 --> 17:54.706 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% North Carolina history. 17:54.807 --> 17:57.643 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And it's only taken the smallest margins 17:57.743 --> 17:59.211 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% to move us one direction or the other. 17:59.311 --> 18:00.946 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% That's why issues of our voting rights 18:01.046 --> 18:04.016 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% end up being so critical here. 18:04.116 --> 18:05.818 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% You know, I think that in terms of the history 18:05.918 --> 18:08.687 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% of the way we've dealt with this particular moment, 18:08.787 --> 18:10.656 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I'm afraid the judgments not gonna, 18:10.756 --> 18:12.891 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% not going to be very complimentary. 18:12.991 --> 18:14.793 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I learned in eighth grade civics, 18:14.893 --> 18:18.564 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that government's role was to protect the general welfare. 18:18.664 --> 18:20.299 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And you know, whether we're looking 18:20.399 --> 18:23.335 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% at the national level or state level, 18:23.435 --> 18:26.538 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% it's really disturbing almost half a million 18:26.638 --> 18:28.173 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% North Carolinians without health insurance. 18:28.273 --> 18:31.643 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We went into this, tens of thousands of more today. 18:31.743 --> 18:34.179 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% One of the food banks, my wife and I support, 18:34.279 --> 18:35.414 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% we got an update yesterday. 18:35.514 --> 18:39.451 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% 15,007 and a half tons of food in one week. 18:40.619 --> 18:42.788 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% What kind of society, you know, 18:42.888 --> 18:43.989 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% tolerates that? 18:45.157 --> 18:46.558 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% It's a real call 18:46.658 --> 18:48.894 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% to think about what we believe in this country 18:48.994 --> 18:50.295 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and our obligation to --. 18:50.395 --> 18:52.564 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - Fascinating, fascinating discussions guys. 18:52.664 --> 18:54.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% But we got about six minutes left in show, 18:54.533 --> 18:57.035 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I want to get to North Carolina tomorrow. 18:57.136 --> 19:00.139 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We've talked about leading up to COVID the time since COVID, 19:00.239 --> 19:02.608 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% now we want you to tell us what to expect, Mike Walden, 19:02.708 --> 19:06.411 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% what can economically we expect for 20 and 21 19:06.512 --> 19:07.713 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% and perhaps beyond? 19:08.747 --> 19:10.149 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - I think growth. 19:10.249 --> 19:12.251 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I think it'll be a year or two before we get our, 19:12.351 --> 19:14.953 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% our major metrics back to where they were pre COVID. 19:15.053 --> 19:17.556 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I think North Carolina competitively 19:17.656 --> 19:19.992 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% will be looking very well, very good. 19:20.092 --> 19:22.661 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I think we'll continue to attract businesses and people. 19:22.761 --> 19:26.431 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% But particularly in the job area, massive changes, 19:26.532 --> 19:28.901 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% massive overhaul about where people work, 19:29.001 --> 19:30.135 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% what kind of skills they need. 19:30.235 --> 19:32.104 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I think that's what I would point to and say, 19:32.204 --> 19:33.906 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% we need the most focus on. 19:34.006 --> 19:37.543 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - And Mike, we're going to be having these vaccines coming 19:37.643 --> 19:40.312 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% online mid-year, 19:40.412 --> 19:43.282 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% late spring, early mid-year for people. 19:43.382 --> 19:45.984 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% How's that going to affect us economically? 19:46.084 --> 19:48.620 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Well, we actually may benefit North Carolina 19:48.720 --> 19:51.156 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% through some production increases. 19:51.256 --> 19:53.859 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We have a pharmaceutical sector here. 19:53.959 --> 19:55.260 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We have a manufacturing sector. 19:55.360 --> 19:58.697 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% So just a knack, but obviously a tremendous optimism. 19:58.797 --> 20:01.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think we'll see a big jump in the stock market 20:01.166 --> 20:04.469 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% for example, but it won't cure these underlying changes 20:04.570 --> 20:06.939 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that I'm emphasizing. Those are still going to go on. 20:07.039 --> 20:09.107 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And that I think is what we really need to worry about. 20:09.208 --> 20:10.642 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - So Jim Leloudis, let's, 20:10.742 --> 20:13.278 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% let's examine what we can expect from North Carolina 20:13.378 --> 20:14.746 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% post pandemic. 20:14.846 --> 20:16.982 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We're going to have a new administration in Washington. 20:17.082 --> 20:18.083 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% We're going to have 20:18.183 --> 20:20.886 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a leadership in North Carolina, 20:20.986 --> 20:23.255 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% which is still going to see a governor of one party 20:23.355 --> 20:26.191 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a legislator, legislature run by another one. 20:26.291 --> 20:27.626 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% What can we expect? 20:27.726 --> 20:31.563 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% So far as the atmosphere politically in North Carolina? 20:31.663 --> 20:33.599 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Well, you know, I'd like to be optimistic. 20:33.699 --> 20:35.867 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% So let, let me, let me go in that direction. 20:35.968 --> 20:37.736 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% I mean, I hope that we can come together 20:37.836 --> 20:41.306 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% across the political divisions that do three things. 20:41.406 --> 20:42.874 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% You know, look at the turnout in this election, 20:42.975 --> 20:46.945 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one extraordinary affirmation of democracy. 20:47.045 --> 20:50.582 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I hope that we can put more effort to making it easier 20:50.682 --> 20:52.918 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for people to vote rather than more difficult 20:53.018 --> 20:54.386 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% for people to vote. 20:54.486 --> 20:56.888 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I hope that we'll take gerrymandering seriously. Yes. 20:56.989 --> 20:58.790 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Historically has been done by both parties. 20:58.890 --> 21:01.093 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% That's no excuse. 21:01.193 --> 21:03.395 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We really need to find a way to ensure 21:03.495 --> 21:05.364 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that all North Carolinians have an opportunity 21:05.464 --> 21:08.567 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% to elect people who represent their community interests 21:08.667 --> 21:09.401 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% and values. 21:09.501 --> 21:10.235 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45% - Jim 21:10.335 --> 21:11.169 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - And then third, 21:11.270 --> 21:13.005 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I hope we'll find some big ideas 21:13.105 --> 21:14.206 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% for evening out that kind of [mumbles]. 21:14.306 --> 21:16.708 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - A great, a great vision for our state, 21:16.808 --> 21:19.211 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% we'd like to see a great vision, right? 21:19.311 --> 21:23.915 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Excellent point. Chris, Jim talked about gerrymandering. 21:25.250 --> 21:28.053 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We're going to get the results from the 2020 census. 21:28.153 --> 21:31.990 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Albeit, we don't think that they did a great job of, 21:32.090 --> 21:34.226 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% of measuring who we were in North Carolina. 21:34.326 --> 21:37.763 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Is this legislature going to get more serious about 21:37.863 --> 21:41.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% redistricting reform and, and ending gerrymandering? 21:41.133 --> 21:43.135 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% - Well, I'd like to say yes, but I'm a little, 21:43.235 --> 21:46.171 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% I'm not sure that that's going to happen this time. 21:46.271 --> 21:47.873 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% It's really hard to ask people in power 21:47.973 --> 21:49.408 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% to give up that power 21:49.508 --> 21:51.043 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and drawing the maps as the ultimate political power. 21:51.143 --> 21:52.577 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% But, you know, 21:52.678 --> 21:54.780 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the Republican state house several years ago passed a, 21:54.880 --> 21:56.214 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% a redistricting reform effort. 21:56.315 --> 21:58.350 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% The Senate has been lows to take it up. 21:58.450 --> 22:00.886 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I hope that public pressure will at least figure out some 22:00.986 --> 22:02.954 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% criteria that we can use this year. 22:03.055 --> 22:05.257 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That people perceive as fair. The long-term goal, 22:05.357 --> 22:08.360 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I think is some independent body as happens in Iowa 22:08.460 --> 22:09.761 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% and some other places. 22:09.861 --> 22:12.164 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We need to stop letting politicians choose their voters, 22:12.264 --> 22:14.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% but voters have to speak out and demand that that happens. 22:15.000 --> 22:18.170 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - And, and so far as the elections, we had expected, 22:18.270 --> 22:19.871 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% maybe we might hear something from that, 22:19.971 --> 22:21.406 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% but I'm not sure that we did. 22:21.506 --> 22:26.511 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% John, the biggest function of state government is education. 22:27.379 --> 22:28.480 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Let's talk a little bit about 22:28.580 --> 22:30.015 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% what we can expect educationally. 22:30.115 --> 22:33.085 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% We've seen a big shift away from district or traditional 22:33.185 --> 22:37.155 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% North Carolina schools, to charters and private schools 22:37.255 --> 22:39.758 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% our universities that have gone through 22:39.858 --> 22:44.396 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% a tremendous upheaval in having the COVID on campus. 22:44.496 --> 22:47.099 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% What do you expect? A university, 22:47.199 --> 22:50.836 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% a university wise and public education wise? 22:50.936 --> 22:53.705 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% - I think the COVID experience simply accelerated 22:53.805 --> 22:55.841 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% to some extent trends that were already occurring. 22:55.941 --> 22:58.643 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% There was already an increased amount of school choice 22:58.744 --> 23:00.178 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% in North Carolina that will continue. 23:00.278 --> 23:02.814 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Most students will still go to district run public schools, 23:02.914 --> 23:06.852 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but that percentage will be 70% or 65 or something, 23:06.952 --> 23:09.388 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% eventually not 85 or 90. 23:09.488 --> 23:12.124 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And as far as universities are concerned, 23:12.224 --> 23:14.760 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% there was already increased use of distance learning, 23:14.860 --> 23:17.229 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% online coursework for students who were on campus 23:17.329 --> 23:19.131 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% that will probably continue. 23:19.231 --> 23:22.234 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% But lots of students are dissatisfied 23:22.334 --> 23:24.669 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% with their online courses. So when that happens. 23:24.770 --> 23:26.838 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Well in fact in Lake, in Lake County, 23:26.938 --> 23:28.774 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% they reported that 25% 23:28.874 --> 23:31.376 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of all the students that did online learning, 23:31.476 --> 23:34.413 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% the first part of the year, flunked at least one quarter. 23:34.513 --> 23:36.381 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - That's right. I mean, in the college context. 23:36.481 --> 23:37.849 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% - Oh, okay. 23:37.949 --> 23:39.351 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - Some students like it, some students just like it. 23:39.451 --> 23:43.188 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Some, we are not going to have, you know, full spread, 23:43.288 --> 23:46.391 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% you know, permanent virtual education for most students, 23:46.491 --> 23:47.626 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% that's not what they want. 23:47.726 --> 23:49.694 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - But additional amounts of coursework online, 23:49.795 --> 23:50.862 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% that's a permanent change. 23:50.962 --> 23:52.831 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - We are, we could have this conversation. 23:52.931 --> 23:54.099 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% This has been fascinating. 23:54.199 --> 23:55.801 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I thank you all for participating in it. 23:55.901 --> 23:57.836 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% And we could talk for hours. 23:57.936 --> 24:01.406 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Unfortunately we have 25 minutes and 26 seconds. 24:01.506 --> 24:03.508 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% I do want to note before we leave 24:03.608 --> 24:06.478 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that both of our guests today are noted authors 24:06.578 --> 24:10.449 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and have been recognized for the work that they've done. 24:10.549 --> 24:11.683 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% And I want to review 24:11.783 --> 24:13.752 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and recognize some of their latest books. 24:13.852 --> 24:16.788 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% First of all, let me talk about Jim Leloudis his new book, 24:16.888 --> 24:19.191 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Fragile Democracy, Jim I've ordered it. 24:19.291 --> 24:20.392 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% I'm looking forward to it. 24:20.492 --> 24:22.794 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% It's a struggle over race and voting rights, 24:22.894 --> 24:24.396 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% in North Carolina. 24:24.496 --> 24:27.699 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Where can get it Amazon, your local bookstore. 24:27.799 --> 24:29.067 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Amazon, your local bookstore, 24:29.167 --> 24:31.736 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% direct from UNC press at a 40% discount. 24:31.837 --> 24:35.507 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - Oh, 40% discount wish you to tell me before that. 24:35.607 --> 24:38.910 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Mike Walden, you've written two new books. 24:39.010 --> 24:41.112 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I'm really intrigued about this. 24:41.213 --> 24:43.114 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The first one is Real Solutions, 24:43.215 --> 24:46.952 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% common sense ideas for solving our economy 24:47.052 --> 24:48.420 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% and pressing problems. 24:48.520 --> 24:52.023 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And Disunionia. I get, did I that pronounced that correctly. 24:52.123 --> 24:53.124 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% - Disunionia 24:54.125 --> 24:54.860 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% - Disunionia? 24:54.960 --> 24:55.694 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% - Disunionia. 24:55.794 --> 24:56.928 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% - A political thriller. 24:58.296 --> 25:00.832 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I don't expect my economist to be writing novels. 25:02.100 --> 25:03.268 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% - Amazon... 25:03.368 --> 25:06.004 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Sometimes that side of the brain kicks in John, 25:06.104 --> 25:08.707 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% John Hood knows this as we both do this. 25:08.807 --> 25:10.575 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So he writes fiction and nonfiction. 25:10.675 --> 25:12.544 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% I dabbled in both. 25:12.644 --> 25:13.778 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - All right. Well, good. 25:13.879 --> 25:16.214 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Let's, let's encourage everybody to get it. 25:16.314 --> 25:19.851 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And folks, we are excited to have had you 25:19.951 --> 25:21.887 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% to join our show this week. 25:21.987 --> 25:24.456 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Like I say, we've run out of time, 25:24.556 --> 25:27.459 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but we hope you've enjoyed our post Thanksgiving show. 25:27.559 --> 25:30.562 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We hope you'll watch our website, ncspin.com 25:30.662 --> 25:33.164 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and stay tuned, watch out for the spin. 25:33.265 --> 25:35.867 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% [upbeat music] 25:37.769 --> 25:38.937 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% - [Narrator] Farmville, 25:39.037 --> 25:40.105 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% steeped in Eastern Carolina tradition 25:40.205 --> 25:42.040 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% yet surprisingly sophisticated. 25:42.140 --> 25:43.775 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% In Farmville, find a French bakery, 25:43.875 --> 25:45.577 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% a furniture school, glassblowing, 25:45.677 --> 25:47.212 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% great shops and restaurants. 25:47.312 --> 25:49.981 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% East of I-95 in the middle of everything. 25:50.081 --> 25:51.616 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Find it first in Farmville. 25:52.817 --> 25:54.519 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% - In more than 21 years on NC Spin, 25:54.619 --> 25:56.888 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% I never endorsed a product or sponsor. 25:56.988 --> 26:00.692 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% But I volunteered to do this message for Family Physicians. 26:00.792 --> 26:02.093 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Over the past 40 years, 26:02.193 --> 26:04.896 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% my family doctor could quickly diagnose my illnesses 26:04.996 --> 26:06.965 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% because he knew my medical history. 26:07.065 --> 26:09.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Evidence suggests, that I'll live longer, 26:09.100 --> 26:10.468 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% have a higher quality of life 26:10.569 --> 26:13.171 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and save 33% on healthcare costs. 26:13.271 --> 26:15.206 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I believe in my trusted relationship 26:15.307 --> 26:16.374 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% with my family physician. 26:16.474 --> 26:17.542 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - [Narrator] Family Physicians, 26:17.642 --> 26:20.745 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% your trusted healthcare advisor, for life. 26:20.845 --> 26:22.647 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% [lighthearted guitar music] 26:22.747 --> 26:24.416 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - [Narrator] Your life is more flexible 26:24.516 --> 26:26.418 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and efficient than ever. 26:26.518 --> 26:28.486 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And your energy is too. 26:28.587 --> 26:30.422 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% See how North Carolina's electric cooperatives 26:30.522 --> 26:31.723 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% are building a brighter future 26:31.823 --> 26:33.692 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% for the rural communities we serve. 26:33.792 --> 26:36.795 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% @ncelectriccooperatives.com /brighter. 26:38.129 --> 26:40.532 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% - Quality public television is made possible through 26:40.632 --> 26:43.034 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% the financial contributions of viewers like you, 26:43.134 --> 26:46.638 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% who invite you to join them in supporting UNC-TV.