>> THIS IS NC SPIN, AN
UNREHEARSED DISCUSSION

ON ISSUES OF INTEREST TO NORTH
CAROLINIANS.

NOW, HERE'S YOUR MODERATOR, TOM
CAMPBELL.

>> THANKS FOR WATCHING
THIS WEEK'S NC SPIN.

IN THE NEXT COUPLE
OF WEEKS STUDENTS IN

TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS WILL
RETURN TO THE CLASSROOM

AND THIS WEEK WE ASK
OUR PANEL TO COMMENT ON

SEVERAL HOT-BUTTON
EDUCATION ISSUES.

WE ALSO DISCUSS A BILL
BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE

THAT COULD CHANGE THE
WAY ELECTRIC RATES ARE DECIDED.

AND, AS ALWAYS, WE ASK THE
PANEL TO TELL US SOMETHING

WE DON'T KNOW.

THIS WEEK'S PANEL INCLUDES

DONNA MARTINEZ, JOHN LOCKE
FOUNDATION/WPTF RADIO

JOHN HOOD, SYNDICATED
COLUMNIST AND AUTHOR

CHRIS FITZSIMON,
DIRECTOR, THE NEWSROOM

ROB SCHOFIELD, DIRECTOR,
NC POLICY WATCH

WE BEGIN OUR UNINTERRUPTED
DEBATE AFTER THESE BRIEF

MESSAGES FROM OUR
UNDERWRITERS.

>> FROM CREATING THE
NEWEST MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY

TO HELPING A LOVED ONE
MAKE END OF LIFE DECISIONS

YOUR FAMILY PHYSICIAN
IS WITH YOU EVERY STEP,

FOR EVERY STAGE OF LIFE
FOR EVERY MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY.

DESPITE A HEALTH CARE
LANDSCAPE FRAUGHT

WITH POTENTIAL LANDMINES FAMILY
PHYSICIANS ACROSS NORTH CAROLINA

ARE PROVIDING YOU A LIFETIME
OF COMMITTED

DEPENDABLE MEDICAL CARE.

FAMILY PHYSICIANS YOUR TRUSTED
HEALTH CARE ADVISOR FOR LIFE.

- [WOMAN] LIFE'S BUSY
BUT YOU'RE IN CONTROL.

AS AN ELECTRIC
COOPERATIVE MEMBER,

YOU HAVE ACCESS TO LOTS
OF TOOLS TO HELP MANAGE

YOUR HOME ENERGY USE AND BUDGET,

SO YOU CAN FOCUS ON
WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT.

- [PRESENTER] NC SPIN IS
BROUGHT TO YOU IN PART

BY THE NORTH
CAROLINA FARM BUREAU.

THE FARM BUREAU AND AGRICULTURE,

WE KEEP NORTH CAROLINA GROWING.

>> LET'S GET TO IT.

IT WON'T BE LONG BEFORE
SCHOOL BELLS RING IN A NEW

YEAR BUT FEWER STUDENTS
WILL BE ATTENDING OUR

TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS.

WE WANT TO ASK OUR PANEL
ABOUT THE POSSIBLE

RE-SEGREGATION OF OUR
SCHOOLS, TESTING, A

CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING
READING ASSESSMENTS AND

OTHER HOT-BUTTON
EDUCATION ISSUES.

ROB SCHOFIELD, RECENTLY IT

WAS REVEALED THAT ONLY 80
PERCENT OF K-12 STUDENTS

NOW ATTEND
TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS.

THE NUMBER ATTENDING
CHARTERS, PRIVATE AND HOME

SCHOOLED HAS SURGED
IN RECENT YEARS.

IS THIS A RESULT OF THE
SCHOOL CHOICE MOVEMENT?

>> WELL TOM THIS A BIG TOPIC I
THINK WE WE COULD SPEND THE

WHOLE HALF HOUR JUST TALKING
ABOUT THIS TOPIC ALONE, BUT

THHERE'S 3 QUICK POINTS, I WANT
TO MAKE.

NUMBER ONE, I THINK IT'S A BAD
THING.

I THINK IT SCHOOLS
ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS OR WHERE WE

COME TOGETHER AS A SOCIETY
WHERE KIDS LEARN TO READ AND

WRITE AND TO THINK IN ALL THOSE
IMPORTANT THINGS BUT IT'S ALSO

WHAT WE LEARNED SOCIAL VALUES
THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE SOCIAL

COHESION IS SO CRITICAL TO OUR
SOCIETY. GOING FORWARD OUR KIDS

NEED TO LEARN TO LIVE WITH
OTHER PEOPLE NUMBER 2 SCHOOL

CHOICE MOVEMENT CLEARLY PLAYING
A ROLE IN THAT I ALSO THINK THE

MOVE TO RE SEGREGATE ARE
SCHOOLS THAT YOU ALLUDED TO IS

A BIG DRIVER OF THIS. AND THE
3RD POINT I'LL MAKE IS THAT,

I THINK IT'S REALLY BEING
DRIVEN FIRST AND FOREMOST BY

ARE SUSTAINED US INVESTMENT AND
PUBLIC EDUCATION, THE REASON

PARENTS ARE OPTING OUT IN MANY
INSTANCES OF SENDING THEIR

PARENT THEIR KIDS TO
TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS. IT'S

BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE SMALL
CLASS SIZES. THEY DON'T HAVE

THE ONE ON ONE ATTENTION THAT
THEY WANT FOR THE KIDS THAT

WILL HAVE THE TEXTBOOKS, THE
MATERIALS ALL THOSE THINGS THAT

WE'RE UNDER FUNDING IN PUBLIC
SCHOOLS.

>> LET'S BEAR DOWN ON SOME OF
THIS.

WE'VE SEEN SOME REPORTS THAT

SHOW THAT 30% OF THE CHARTER
SCHOOLS ARE 80% WHITE, WHICH IS

A STARK CONTRAST TO THE
MAJORITY OF THE TRADITIONAL

SCHOOLS, ONLY 14% HAVE THAT
MUCH IN 30% OF THE STUDENTS ARE

LOW INCOME IN CHARTERS WHERE IS
IT'S 50 50 IN MOST TRADITIONAL

SCHOOLS. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY
THE PART OF THE REASON FOR THIS

IS THE FACT THAT CHARTER
SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE

TRANSPORTATION FOR THEIR
STUDENTS AND THEY ALSO DON'T

HAVE TO PROVIDE A BREAKFAST IN
MUCH THE HOW BIG A FACTOR DO

YOU THINK THIS IS IN THE
POSSIBLE

RESEGREGATING OF SCHOOLS?

>> PARENTS ARE MAKING CHOICES
AND IN SOME CASES PARENTS ARE

BANDING TOGETHER. AND SO
THEY CAN CAR POOL THEY CAN DO

THINGS AND NO DOUBT THAT EVERY
FAMILY LOOKS AT DIFFERENT

THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO
THEM AIRPORT AND TO THEIR KIDS

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN JUST SAY
WELL, IT'S BECAUSE OF THIS OR

IT'S BECAUSE OF THAT. FOR ME MY
VIEW IS THAT WHAT'S WINNING IS

A STORY REALLY OF HOPE. IT'S A
STORY OF OPPORTUNITY NO LONGER

DEPEND PARENTS HAVE TO JUST SAY
WELL, THIS IS IT IF MY SON OR

DAUGHTER IS DOING WELL GREAT.
BUT MY SON OR DAUGHTER ISN'T

DOING WELL. I DON'T HAVE TO
HAVE A CHOICE TO DO SOMETHING

ELSE SO I DON'T SEE THIS AS A
NEGATIVE AT ALL NO ONE'S BEING

COERCED TO DO ANYTHING THIS IS
ABOUT PARENTS FINALLY HAVING

MORE OF A SAY.

>> JOHN THAT THE FACTS ARE
INESCAPABLE WE LOST 6500 KIDS

IN TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS LAST
YEAR.

>> WHO IS WE, EXACTLY?
>> THE TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS.

>> THE DISTRICT SCHOOLS HAD A
DECLINE IN ENROLLMENT

MUCH OF IT BECAUSE OF HOME
SCHOOLING AND CHARTER SCHOOLING

AND A LITTLE BIT IN THE
PRIVATE SCHOOLING AREA, I

DISAGREE WITH ROB ABOUT HIS
FINAL EXPLANATION, I JUST DON'T

THINK IT COMPORT WITH REALITY
THESE ARE THESE ARE FAMILIES

THAT ARE LEAVING THE VAST
MAJORITY OF CASES TO SCHOOLS

THAT HAVE LESS MONEY THE DISH
RISK ULTIMATELY DID BECAUSE

ADDITIONAL SCHOOLS, BLACK MONEY
BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY WHY

WOULD THEY LEAVE THEY'RE GOING
TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS THAT ARE

ALMOST ALWAYS LOWER COSTS AND
LOWER REVENUE OR TO CHARTER

SCHOOLS WHICH HAVE LOWER
AMOUNTS OF MONEY THAN THE

DISTRICT'S SCHOOLS. I THINK IT
IS A CHOICE DISCUSSION. I THINK

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE
SOME AFFECTS IN THE

COMPOSITION OF THE ROLE THAT
DOES HAVE TO DO WITH THINGS

LIKE TRANSPORTATION. I THINK
THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE, BUT I

ALSO THINK THAT FOR EXAMPLE,
CHARTER SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE A

LOWER PERCENTAGE OF AFRICAN
AMERICAN STUDENTS, THE DISTRICT

SCHOOLS TO THE REAL
DIFFERENCES, HISPANIC STUDENTS

THAT'S WHERE THE THAT'S WHERE
THERE'S A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF

WHITE STUDENTS, A LOW
PERCENTAGE OF HISPANIC STUDENTS

IN CHARTER SCHOOLS IS NOT SO
MUCH ABOUT AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

>> THIS WAS GREAT, BUT ONE
THING WE'VE LEFT A LITTLE BIT

AS THE NOT JUST THE BUDGET
MEMBER WE'RE FUNDING PUBLIC

SCHOOLS, ROB IS RIGHT, LESS PER
CAPITA THAN WE WERE BEFORE THE

GREAT RECESSION. BUT WE ALSO
BEEN THROUGH A PERIOD OF ATTACK

ON PUBLIC SCHOOLS, GOVERNMENT
MONOPOLY SCHOOLS. WE GIVE

SCHOOLS AN "F" IF THEY HAVE A
LOT OF POOR KIDS IN THEM

AUTOMATICALLY, IMAGINE IF YOUR
KID SOMEWHERE, NORTH CAROLINA

AND YOUR KIDS DOING OKAY IN
SCHOOL AND YOU GET A BIG FAT F

IN THE MAIL OR YOU SEE OH MY
GOSH MY

KID'S SCHOOL IS TERRIBLE, WHEN
IT'S ACTUALLY NOT AND THE

KIDS ARE IMPROVING. THERE'S A
LOT OF THAT MIXED MESSAGES THAT

HAVE BEEN SAID ABOUT PUBLIC
EDUCATION BY THE FOLKS IN

CHARGE AND WE ALSO I THINK
PROBABLY HAVE FLIPPED OUT

ANOTHER DRIVING FORCE WHICH IS
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MAKING A

LOT OF MONEY ON THE
PRIVATIZATION OF PUBLIC

EDUCATION CHARTER SCHOOL
CHAINS, EVEN THOUGH THE

CHARTERS THERE ARE NONPROFITS
ARE LEASING FIRM FOR PROFIT

CORPORATIONS, THERE'S BIG MONEY
IN EDUCATION THAT THE STATE

USED TO PAY FOR THAT NOW
PRIVATE COMPANIES ARE MAKING

MONEY OFF.

>> I AGREE THAT THIS IS ANTI
PUBLIC SCHOOL WHATSOEVER THAT

TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOL
CLASSROOMS --

>> DIDN'T SAY ANYONE IS MAKING
MONEY OFF OF IT.

>> IT'S NOT ANTI PUBLIC SCHOOL

TO WANT
TO GIVE PARENTS CHOICES SO WITH

YOUR EXAMPLE CHRIS, WHAT
THAT IMAGINE THAT YOU'RE THE

PARENT WHOSE CHILD COMES HOME
AND ISN'T DOING WELL FOR ALL

SORTS OF REASONS, MAYBE IF YOUR
CHILD IS BEING BULLIED MAYBE

THEY HAVE AN APTITUDE IT'S NOT
BEING ADDRESSED MAYBE THEY JUST

THEY CAN'T DO WELL IN A LARGE
CLASSROOM OR SMALL CLASSROOM.

WHY WOULD A PARENT

NOT BE ABLE TO SAY, LOOK THIS IS
MY CHILD I WANT THE BEST FOR

THAT CHILD.
>> THEY CAN SAY THAT.

[BOTH DEBATING]

>> THEY'VE ALWAYS A CHOICE

THE QUESTION IS SHOULD WE PAY -

SHOULD WE LITERALLY TAXPAYER
MONEY BE PAID TO TELL KIDS THAT

TO TELL KIDS THAT DINOSAURS AND
HUMANS SHARED THE EARTH --

[ALL TALKING]

>> THE MONEY SHOULD FOLLOW THE
STUDENTS.

>> NO MATTER WHAT NO
MATTER WHAT THE PARENT WANTS

THE MATTER IF THEY WANT TO TELL
KIDS THAT ARE THINGS ARE

ABSOLUTELY WRONG TO TAXPAYERS
SUBSIDIZE A TERRIBLY FLAWED

>> YOU'RE TALKING PRIMARILY
ABOUT PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRIVAATE
SCHOOLS.

>> WELL, WE WE'RE TALKING MORE
ABOUT CHARTERS

>> SHOULD THE
TAXPAYERS SUBSIDIZED A PUBLIC

CLASSROOM THAT ISN'T WORKING?

>> YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION
FIRST.

>> WELL YOU ANSWER MINE TOO.

>> WHAT THE
TAXPAYERS TO DO IS FIX THE

SCHOOL WE HAVE WE HAVE THE
ELECTIONS FOR SCHOOL BOARDS.

WE HAVE PUBLIC INPUT, WE HAVE
MAGNET PROGRAM THEY HAVE A LOT

CHOICE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
>> WE CAN ALWAYS MAYBE

KIND OF SEVERAL YEARS FROM NOW
INFLUENCE A SCHOOL BOARD

ELECTION IS A VERY --
[ALL JUMPING IN, DEBATING]

>> WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION IN
OUR

FAMILY FRANKLY, AND THEN
OPTED TO GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL

AT THE BY THE WAY ABOUT
DISCLOSURE OF GOT TO TELL YOU I

HAVE WRITTEN A COLUMN ABOUT
THAT THIS WEEK'S COLUMN OF MY

SPIN ON NCSPIN.COM IS
ABOUT THIS. ROB, THE BIG THING

THOUGH IS THAT WHEN CHARTER
SCHOOLS WERE FIRST AND VISION

SO THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE
LABORATORIES OF INNOVATION THEY

WERE GIVEN CONSENT BILLY MORE
LEEWAY THAN WERE TRADITIONAL

SCHOOLS OR AS JOHN CALLS AND
DISSED SCHOOLS WHICH INCLUDED

THINGS LIKE THE ACADEMIC
CALENDAR TEACHER WORK DAYS,

CURRICULUM TEACHER CHOIR
MONTHS, CLASS SIZE THINGS OF

THIS NATURE, MY QUESTION IN THE
POINT I GET TO IN MY COLUMN IS

OK IF THAT IT AND THE RESULTS
BY THE WAY INDICATE THAT

CHARTERS ARE DOING ABOUT AS
WELL ON ALL PAR WITH OUR

TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS. SHOULDN'T
WE GIVE THIS SAME FLEXIBILITY

TO OUR DISTRICT SCHOOLS, OUR
TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS IF IT WORKS

LET'S DO IT.

>> IF SOME OF THOSE IDEAS ARE
WORTH, EMULATING SURE THAT WHEN

WE ALLOW THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS
TO MAKE THOSE USES OR THAT

THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE
DEFINITELY CAN GET MORE FREEDOM

TO BUT THAT'S NOT THAT'S NOT
WHAT WE'RE SEEING THESE GREAT

IDEAS THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO
GET FROM THE CHARTERS ARE NOT

PERCOLATING BACK TO THE SCHOOLS
BECAUSE THE GREAT IDEAS ARE

THINGS LIKE SMALLER CLASS SIZES
HAVING TEXT BOOKS FOR KIDS,

BASIC STUFF THAT ALL SCHOOLS
ARE TO PROVIDE AND IF WE DID

PROVIDE THEM IN THE TRADITIONAL
PUBLIC SCHOOLS, PEOPLE WOULDN'T

BE OPTING OUT YOU ASKED WHY
THEY GO TO A CHARTER THEY GO

A VOUCHER SCHOOL, I WANT A
SMALLER CLASS SIZE AND WANT

MORE INDIVIDUALIZED ATTENTION.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL SAY --

>> AND
NOT TO ARGUE, BUT RESULTS AND

PERFORMANCE SEEM TO TRACK SO
FAR AS TRADITIONAL SCHOOLS ARE

CONCERNED I WILL SWITCH OVER TO
ANOTHER TOPIC IT BACK AND

THERE'S A BIG CONTROVERSY HAS
BEEN GOING ON THE LAST COUPLE

OF WEEKS SUPERINTENDENT OF
PUBLIC INSTRUCTION MARK JOHNSON

AWARDED THE CONTRACT FROM NORTH
CAROLINA'S K 3 DIAGNOSTIC

READING ASSESSMENT NOW HE
CLAIMED IT WAS BECAUSE OF A

RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS MADE BY
AN ADVISORY COMMITTEE NOW WE

FUNDING THAT HE DIDN'T FOLLOW
THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE'S CHOICE

IS THIS HUBBUB JUST BECAUSE
PEOPLE WE'RE UPSET WITH THE

FARMING CHOSE OR THAT HE
MISREPRESENTED HIS ACTIONS.

>> I THINK BOTH I MEAN IT'S
PRETTY AMAZING THAT HE WOULD

MAKE A REPRESENTATION OF
SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN

AND THEN TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW
TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT. I THINK

THAT'S WHY YOU SAW A MOVE IN
THE LEGISLATURE FROM DEMOCRATIC

SENATORS ARE SAYING WHAT'S THAT
SUSPEND THIS FOR YEARS SO MAKE

A DECISION FOR YEAR THE COMPANY
THAT HE CHOSE NOT HAVE NEARLY

AS GOOD A RECORD DEALING WITH
KIDS WITH LEARNING DISABILITIES

DYSLEXIA AND OTHER THINGS.
I THINK THE SUPER 10 WAS CAUGHT

HERE MAKING A POLITICAL
DECISION AND NOW IT'S TRYING TO

GET BACK OUT OF IT. I DON'T
THINK WE SHOULD LET HIM.

>> SHOULD WE VOID
THIS CONTRACT?

>> WELL, I'D LIKE TO LEARN A LOT
MORE ABOUT IT

THE SUPERINTENDENT'S
POSITION AS I UNDERSTAND IT IS

THAT THAT THAT ADVISORY REVIEW,

WAS IT SELF TAINTED BY SOME
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

>> YES, BUT AT FIRST, HE SAID HE
WAS

FOLLOWING THE
ADVICE OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE

>> I THINK WE NEED TO LEARN
MORE OF THE DETAILS.

>> THE COMPANY IS THREATENING
THE TEACHERS WHO EXPOSE

THIS WITH CEASE AND DESIST
ORDERS WHEN WE MIGHT WANT TO BE

CAREFUL WE MIGHT GET ONE OF
THOSE ON NC SPIN IF --

>> CEASE AND DESIST?
[ALL TALKING]

>> WOULD THAT MEAN WE'D HAVE TO
DUCT TAPE OUR MOUTHS?

>> WE MIGHT, THAT COULD
HAPPEN.

DONNA THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF

TURNOVER IN DPI SINCE MARK
JOHNSON HAS BECOME OR OUR STATE

SUPERINTENDENT, AND A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE QUESTIONING IS THIS

BECAUSE NEW LEADERSHIP IN AND
OF ITSELF IS GOING TO PUT

PEOPLE AND THAT THEY FEEL MORE
COMFORTABLE WITH OR IS IT A

COMMENTARY. OMAR, JOHNSON'S
LEADERSHIP.

>> I THINK THAT TURNOVER IS NOT
NECESSARILY A BAD THING,

BUT YOU HAD LEADERSHIP DPI THAT
WAS PRETTY CONSISTENT FOR YEAR

AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR PEOPLE
GOT COMFORTABLE, IF PEOPLE

WANTED TO STAY SOME PEOPLE STAY
BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IN THE

FOCUS THEY BELIEVED IN THAT THE
LEADERSHIP. OTHER PEOPLE LOOKED

AT IT LIKE THIS IS MY JOB, I
HAVE A CAREER HERE, BUT IF

SOMEONE COMES IN HAPPENS IN ANY
ORGANIZATION, WHETHER IT'S

STATE GOVERNMENT OR PRIVATE
ENTERPRISE OR NONPROFIT,

BECAUSE SOMEONE WHO THINKS A
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY. SOME

PEOPLE REACT WELL.

AND RISE TO THE OCCASION, OTHERS
DON'T.

>> SO
LET ME ASK YOU ROB, THE

TURNOVER IS THIS IS JUST
BECAUSE, AS DONNA SAYS, A NEW

LEADERSHIP CAN CHOOSE NEW
PEOPLE OR IS IT A COMMENTARY ON

MARK JOHNSON'S LEADERSHIP.

>> IT IS MOSTLY THE LATTER WE
HAD A STORY BY OUR REPORTER

GREG CHILDRESS DIDN'T SEE
POLICY WATCH WROTE A STORY

ABOUT THIS EARLIER THIS WEEK,
THE NUMBERS ARE PRETTY

IMPRESSIVE PRETTY STRIKING AT
HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TO

HAVE TRANSITIONED OUT A LOT OF
THE PEOPLE JUST GOT SICK OF IT.

THEY WERE DISGUSTED WITH THE
SITUATION THEY LEFT BECAUSE

THEY WERE DEDICATED EDUCATORS
AND I THINK SOME OF THE PEOPLE.

THE JOHNSON HAS BROUGHT IN HAVE
NOW LEFT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT

REALLY EDUCATORS THEIR INTEREST
IN A POLITICAL CAREER WHICH I

THINK MIGHT ACTUALLY BE THE
CASE WITH THE SUPERINTENDENT.

>> CERTAINLY IT'S SOMETHING
THAT WE SHOULD WATCH AS WE GO

FORWARD AND LET'S MOVE OVER THE
QUESTION OF TESTING WE'VE

TALKED ABOUT THIS TIME MANY
YEARS WE TALK ABOUT TESTING ON

NC SPIN, JOHN?
>> IS THAT A TEST?

[ALL TALKING]
>> I SAY THREE!

>> PEOPLE HAVE COMPLAINED FOR
YEARS ABOUT TOO MANY TEST BEING

GIVEN TO OUR STUDENTS AND THE
LEGISLATURE WANTED TO REDUCE

THE NUMBER OF TEST BOTH THE
SENATE AND THE HOUSE PASSED

BILLS WHICH WOULD DO THAT FOR
THE ELEMENT TREE MIDDLE AND

HIGH SCHOOLS, BUT THE NORTH
CAROLINA CHAMBER SAID NOT SO

FAST HERE. WE NEED MORE
DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS AND

WHAT TO REDUCE.

WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ABOUT THIS
TESTING?

>> WELL, I UNDERSTAND THE NEED
AND HAVE ADVOCATED FOR A LONG

TIME THE NEED TO CHANGE OR OR
ADAPTERS IN SOME CASES

STREAMLINE OUR TESTING PROGRAM
I THINK THE CHAMBER WAS

CONCERNED I SUSPECT NOT AS MUCH
ABOUT THE HIGH SCHOOL CHANGE

THAT MAY BE THE HIGH SCHOOL
CHANGES TO GET RID OF SOME TASK

BECAUSE WE'RE NOW AT
MINISTERING THE A C T TO ALL OF

OUR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WHICH
IS A CONSISTENT NATIONAL START

I LIKE HAVING CONSISTENT
INDEPENDENT NATIONAL TO BE ANY

BETTER IMPAIRED OTHER STAR AT
YOU SO, BUT I THINK THE CONCERN

IS PROBABLY GREATER IN THE A 3
TO 8 GRADE BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE

DOING IS TAKEN INTO GREAT
COURSES AND THEY'RE REPLACING

THEM WITH WHAT IS NOW CALLED
AND WILL BE CHANGED ITS NAME

EVENTUALLY THE CALL CHECKINS 3
TESTS A YEAR AND YOU BASICALLY

USE THEM TOGETHER NOW THAT
SOUNDS ODD BECAUSE IF YOU TALK

ABOUT TOO MANY TESTING AND MORE
TEST THAT SOUNDS CONFUSING THE

ARGUMENT IS THAT A NUMBER OF
DISTRICTS ALREADY USING 3 TESTS

A YEAR PLUS THE END OF GREAT
YEAH, AND SO YOU WOULD TRY TO

USE THE FACT THAT I AM
CONCERNED I I AGREE WITH THE

CHAMBER, I'M CONCERNED IF THAT
INSTRUMENT IS REALLY VALID AND

REALLY HELPFUL BECAUSE ONE OF
THE THINGS WORK ON AT LEAST HAS

AND I'M QUESTIONING THE TASK AT
LEAST WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF

GIVING SOMETHING LIKE THE SAME
TEST OVER A LONG PERIOD TIME

AND THAT HAS ALLOWED
RESEARCHERS NOT JUST NORTH

CAROLINA, BUT ACROSS THE
COUNTRY TO EVALUATE AND STUDY

EDUCATION REFORMS IN NORTH
CAROLINA.

>> FOR YEARS AND YEARS - I
WILL HAVE TO SAY THIS -

FOR YEARS AND YEARS
THE NORTH CAROLINA CHAMBER HED

BEEN AN INTEGRAL PARTNER IN
PLAYER IN PUBLIC EDUCATION IN

NORTH CAROLINA AND FOR YEARS
THAT KIND OF DISAPPEARED,

GARY SALAMIDO WHO'S THE
INTERIM OR ACTING

>> I THINK THEY'RE TRYING

TO MAKE SURE
THAT WHATEVER CHANGES THEY

MIGHT MAKE BECAUSE THERE IS
SOME PRESSURE ABOUT TEST DON'T

TAKE AWAY INFORMATION THAT
WE NEED TO EVALUATE NOT JUST

INDIVIDUAL STUDENTS WHICH IS
PART OF THE REASON BUT ALSO

EVALUATE SCHOOLS OF IWATE WAYS
OF TEACHING OF IWATE POLICY

CHANGES OF IT AT THE STATE OR
LOCAL LEVEL THIS IS IMPORTANT

GOVERNMENTS MATERIAL WE NEED.

>> YOU'VE BEEN VERY POLITE
WAITING FOR YOUR TURN. GO AHEAD.

>> THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
A HIGH STAKES TEST

THAT THE
CHILD MIGHT ACTUALLY BE HELD

BACK OR PUNISHED AS A RESULT
AND FEEL THAT INTENSE PRESSURE

FROM A TEST THAT IS DIAGNOSTIC
SYSTEMWIDE KIND OF DIAGNOSES

WERE TOO AND TO DO WITH IT ON
THIS CRAZY ROLLER COASTER WHEN

IT COMES TO TESTING FIRST WE
HAD TO DO LOTS OF TESTING

BECAUSE WE WANT MORE
ACCOUNTABILITY IN SCHOOLS NOW

SOME OF THE SAME PEOPLE WHO
PUSHED INITIALLY ARE PUSHING

BACK THE OTHER DIRECTION GOT TO
FIND SOME COMMON GROUND AT ALL

COME BACK TO THAT THEME.
I MENTIONED EARLIER AS IF WE

INVESTED ENOUGH FOR SCHOOLS AND
GAVE THE TEACHERS THE TOOLS

THEY NEED TO EDUCATE OUR KIDS
THE TESTING ISSUE WOULDN'T BE

SUCH A CONTROVERSY.

>> WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON
GROWTH. THAT'S WHY

I LIKE THE IDEA OF MULTIPLE
TESTS DURING THE YEAR BECAUSE

YOU'RE MEASURING A CHILD'S
GROWTH. IS THAT CHILD LEARNING -

>> FROM START OF YEAR
>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

ARE
THEY LEARNING OR ARE THEY NOT

AND THEN WHAT ARE THEY LEARNING
AND YOU CAN GO FORWARD THE

ENTIRE WORLD IS GOING TOWARDS
ON DEMAND MORE PERSONALIZED

EVERYTHING.

THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO GO.
WITH EDUCATION.

>> I WANT TO SWITCH OVER
TO A TOPIC THAT YOU GOT STARTED

ON AND I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO
FOLLOW UP ON IT,

BUT I WANT TO DO IT. AND THAT
IS THE THE GRADING OF SCHOOL.

THE SUBJECT OF THAT AND AGAIN
THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE

SUBJECTS AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT
FOR YEARS ON IN SEAS AND

BASICALLY THE WAY IT WORKS
RIGHT NOW IS THAT SCHOOLS ARE

GRADED 80% ACCORDING TO THE
TEST SCORES OF THEIR STUDENTS

AND 20% ACCORDING TO HOW THEY
GROW AS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT

THEY PUT THEM ON A 15 POINT
SCALE WHICH I'M NOT SURE I

TOTALLY UNDERSTAND BUT HAVE
DECIDED TO DO THAT. BUT NOW

THERE'S SOME THINKING THAT
MAYBE THIS WHOLE FORMULA NEEDS

TO BE CHANGED IN THE
LEGISLATURE. AND LET ME GIVES

THEM SOME KUDOS HERE RATHER
THAN MAKING THE DECISION

THEMSELVES THEY TOSSED IT BACK
TO MARK JOHNSON IN IN THE STATE

BOARD OF EDUCATION AND SAID YOU
GUYS TALK ABOUT IT AND COME TO

US WITH SOME RECOMMENDATION.

>> WELL THE PROBLEM WITH THAT
IS THAT THE SENATE LEADERSHIP

HAS REFUSED TO HAVE A
CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT THE

LAST SEVERAL SESSIONS, THE
REPUBLICAN HOUSE LEADERSHIP ONE

TIME IN THE BUDGET ONE COMMON
THE BILL AS CHANGE THE GRATING

FORMULA TO BE 50% TO SCORE 50%
GROWTH WHICH MAKES A LOT MORE

SENSE. SOME PEOPLE JOHN AMONG
THEM HAVE ADVOCATED TO 2

SEPARATE MEASUREMENTS. SO THERE
ARE REPUBLICANS EVEN CRAIG

CORNER DISAGREE WITH QUITE A
BIT ON A LOT OF EDUCATION

ISSUES HAS BEEN A PROPONENT
CHANGING THE FORMULA. THE

SENATE LEADERSHIP HAS REFUSED A
YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR

WE'VE HAD ALL THE SCHOOLS
CLAIMING THAT THEY'RE FAILING

WHEN THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING
PRETTY WILL TO HELP

ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGED
KIDS. THE STUDY IS BETTER THAN

NOTHING BUT I THINK THIS IS
ROCKET SCIENCE WE COULD HAVE

ALREADY CHANGED IT.

>> BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE WE'VE
TALKED ABOUT EDUCATION ISSUES

AND I MAKE A PLEDGE THAT
WERE GOING TO DO PARTICULARLY

SCHOOL IS GETTING READY TO
START AGAIN WE'RE GOING TO BE

DOING MORE OF THAT.

>> THERE WILL BE A TEST AT THE
END OF THE QUARTER.

>> THANK YOU.
>> IT'S GOING TO BE 50-50.

>> AFRAID I WAS GOING TO GET AN
F THERE.

LET'S SWITCH
TOPICS. PUBLIC UTILITY

COMPANIES ARE CALLED REGULATED
MONOPOLIES WITH

REGULATORS ALLOWING RATES.
THEY PROVIDE REASONABLE RETURNS

TO THEIR INVESTORS WHILE
ENSURING GOOD SERVICE TO

CUSTOMERS BUT WE'VE NOT SEEN
ANYTHING IN RECENT MEMORY IS

CONTENTIOUS. AS THE ARGUMENTS
OVER WHAT'S NOW CALLED SENATE

BILL 5.59. IF IT'S PASSED AND
GOVERNOR COOPER SIGNS IT WILL

MAKE A MAJOR SHIFT IN THE WAY
RIGHT WE'RE GOING TO BE

ESTABLISHED OVER THE NEXT 10
YEARS GIVING DUKE ENERGY MORE

LEEWAY IN ESTABLISHING THEIR
RIGHTS. A MAJOR CAMPAIGN HAS

BEEN WAGED IN OPPOSITION TO
THIS URGING THE GOVERNOR TO

VETO THE BILL DONNA THIS
CAMPAIGN IN OPPOSITION TO THE

SENATE BILL 5.59 IS THAT THE
REASON IT

HASN'T PASSED THE HOUSE?

>> THE REASON IT HASN'T PASSED
THE HOUSE IS BECAUSE THERE'S NO

CONSENSUS AMONG HOUSE LEADERSHIP
ABOUT WHAT TO DO HERE.

THIS IS A REALLY COMPLEX
BILL COMPLEX THE SITUATION AND

SO REPRESENTATIVE DAVID LEWIS
CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE RULES

COMMITTEE. THE SIGNALED HIS
SUPPORT FOR THIS, BUT THEY'RE

LAW THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING
BEHIND THE SCENES, WHAT IS THIS

REALLY ALL ABOUT ALL OF THESE
PROVISIONS, LET'S NOT MOVE TOO

QUICKLY. I SEE IT IS REALLY AN
ISSUE OF TRYING TO PROTECT RATE

PAYERS AND THAT'S WHY I LIKE
THIS A REVIEW EVERY TIME

THERE'S A REQUEST, I'M WEARY OF
THIS IDEA --

>> SO YOU'RE NOT --

WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING IS
YOU'RE NOT CRAZY ABOUT THE

SENATE BILL 5.59.

>> I'M NOT CRAZY
ABOUT IT. I I WANT TO PROTECT --

>> SEEMS LIKE IT IT NEGATES THE
POWERS OF THE STATE UTILITY,

>> BUT HERE'S THE THING I
THINK DUKE HAS LEGITIMATE

CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS ABOUT
WHAT TO DO WITH AGING

INFRASTRUCTURE. AND SO THAT'S
WHY I SAY WE DO HAVE TO LOOK AT

THOSE QUESTIONS WE DO HAVE TO
PAY FOR IT.

>> ROB, THE WAY THIS WORKS IS
THAT IT'S A

2 PART BILL
BASICALLY THE FIRST IS GOING TO

ALLOW DUKE OR DOMINION TO BE
ABLE TO SELL BONDS IS IN THE

EVENT OF ANOTHER HURRICANE OR
STORM DAMAGE OR

WHATEVER LIKE THAT
>> THAT'S NOT CONTROVERSIAL.

>> THAT'S NOT CONTROVERSIAL AT
ALL.

THE SECOND PART ALLOWS THEM
TO ASK FOR RIGHT SUCCESSIVE

RATE INCREASES OVER A 5 YEAR
PERIOD OF TIME INSTEAD OF GOING

BACK AS DONNA WAS SAYING TO THE
UTILITIES COMMISSION IS TIME TO

MAKE THE CASE IS IT WHAT'S THE
PROBLEM WITH THIS?

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE A WHOLE
LOT OF CONSTITUENTS.

>> I THINK - THE CONSTITUENT IS
DUKE THAT'S WHO'S BEHIND IT -

THERE'S NOT NECESSARILY A
PROBLEM

WITH
GIVING MULTIPLE YOU'RE A REAL

HAVE MULTIPLE YEAR RATE CASES,
THE ISSUE OF IT.

>> HAS TO DO WITH THE CRITERIA
THAT ARE USED FOR ASSESSING

WHETHER THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL OR
NOT WE HAVE AN EXISTENTIAL

CLIMATE CRISIS IN OUR SOCIETY
RIGHT NOW DUKE ENERGY IS LIKE

IT OR NOT AT THE CENTER OF THAT
THEY ARE THE HUGE CARBON FUEL

USER THEY ARE SENDING PLUMES OF
SEE CO 2 INTO OUR ATMOSPHERE

WE'VE GOT TO MAKE IT A CRITICAL
COMPONENT OF THAT THAT WE MOVE

SWIFTLY TO A RENEWABLE ENERGY.

>> YOU'RE ARGUING FOR RATE
INCREASES

>> NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE
ACTUALLY DAY IF THEY

FOR INSTANCE MOVED TO A SMART
GRID SYSTEM WHICH COULD

ACTUALLY WHICH ACTUALLY WOULD
REDUCE THE NEED TO PRODUCE

ELECTRICITY AND SEND OUT JUST
AS MUCH AS NEEDED OUT ON TO THE

GRID, WE CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT --
[ALL TALKING]

IT'S GOING TO COST
$13 BILLION.

I'M NOT TAKING
THEIR SIDE NECESSARILY LOW AS

35 STATES ALREADY HAVE SOME
VERSION THIS DON'T THAT DON'T

>> THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THERE
ARE WAYS TO DO THIS SO THAT THE

ALL THE MONEY DOESN'T GO TO THE
SHAREHOLDER THERE LABELED S P

500 DOES NOT HAVE HAPPENING IS
THAT THE SENATE IS NOT

CONFIRMING GOVERNOR COOPER'S
NOMINEES THE UTILITIES

COMMISSION WE HAVE ONLY FOR THE
7 MEMBERS ON THERE NOW OR EVEN

SERVING THE COMMISSION IS
GREATLY DEPLETED THAT WOULD BE

ANOTHER THING WE SHOULD DO TO
GET THIS MOVING.

>> FAR AS IT GOES THIS NC WARN

CHRIS IS THE ORGANIZATION
THAT IS I MEAN HUGE NEWSPAPER

ADS TELEVISION ADS SO FEELS
LIKE THEY'RE AND THEY'RE CITING

THE FACT THAT THERE'S BEEN OVER
$1.6 MILLION IN CAMPAIGN

CONTRIBUTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN
GIVEN TO SENATOR BYRD OR

SENATOR MORE THAN BLUE DAVID
LEWIS. THEY SAY THE RIGHT

YOU'RE GOING TO BE INCREASED BY
50% IF THIS BILL PASSED AND

MORE COST ARE GOING TO BE PAID
BY SHAREHOLDERS AND THEN BY

BY RATE PAYERS
THAN SHAREHOLDERS.

>> OVERRIDING THINGS ARE GETTING
IN THE WEEDS, THIS FIRST OF ALL

DOES ANYBODY THINK

THAT DUKE POWER, DUKE
ENERGY, DOMINION DON'T HAVE A

ENOUGH INFLUENCE OVER RATES AND
DON'T GET THEIR WAY 95% OF THE

TIME ALREADY IN NORTH CAROLINA,
SO FIRST OF ALL WHAT

ARE THEY SCREAMING ABOUT?

AND THE SECOND
THING IS WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS

IN THIS DRAMATIC A FASHION
WITHOUT A LINK THAT WE TALKED

ABOUT STUDYING THINGS EARLIER
WHY WOULD YOU NOT STUDY THIS

HAVE PEOPLE HAVE CONSUMER
ADVOCATE SAID THE UTILITY

EXPERTS HAVE EVERYBODY DO THIS
IN A THOUGHTFUL WAY THAN RUN

THIS IS THE LEGISLATURE THIS
WAY I THINK WHAT THE NC WARN IS

ON TO SOMETHING ALWAYS
NECESSARILY AGREE THEM I THINK

IN THIS CASE WE NEED TO NOT DO
THIS THIS YEAR

AT THE VERY LEAST.

>> THIS IS REALLY RARE.

I'M FINDING
THAT THERE'S CONSENSUS ON THIS

PANEL BUT ON THIS ISSUE.

>> YEAH, I'M WITH YOU ON
THE STUDY,

BUT AMONG THE EVERYBODY HAS TO
BE AN ECONOMIST, AN ECONOMIST

[ALL TALKING]

>> JOHN, IF THIS PASSES, WILL
COOPER VETO IT?

>> I THINK THE RELATIONSHIP WAS
BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND DUKE

IS NOT EXACTLY HUNKY DORY SO
WOULD BE BETTING ON IT IF I WAS

ON THE DUKE SIDE OR MAYBE HE
WOULD DEMAND SOMETHING TO GET

HIS SIGNATURE THERE'S BEEN A
HISTORY OF THE GOVERNOR HOLD

THINGS UP UNTIL DO GIVEN WHAT
HE WANTS.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S TURN AROUND
TO THE PART OF THE PROGRAM

WHERE WE ASK THE PANEL TO
TELL US SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW

CHRIS?

>> FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND
YEARS REPUBLICANS AND MANY

PEOPLE ON THIS PANEL COMPLAINED
ABOUT PORK BARREL SPENDING AND

LOCAL PROJECTS GETTING MONEY
WHEN DEMOCRATS ARE IN POWER W

REAL RELEASED A DATABASE THIS
WEEK ALMOST $400 MILLION WORTH

OF SINGLE DIRECTED LOCAL
PROJECTS ARE REALLY PORK

BARREL. IRONICALLY THAT'S
ROUGHLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF

MONEY WOULD COST NORTH CAROLINA
FOR ITS SHARE OF MEDICAID

EXPANSION. WE HAVE A BUDGET
THAT IS CHOCK FULL OF PORK

BARREL. I HAVEN'T HEARD ANY
CONSERVATIVES --

OR REPUBLICANS
SAY A WORD ABOUT IT.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE DEFINING
ISSUES

WHEN THEY WERE NOT IN
POWER.

>> I'LL HAVE TO GO LOOK AT IT
BECAUSE I SOMEHOW KNOW

THAT THAT ESCAPE ME.

ROB SCHOFIELD
TELL US SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.

ONE BIG STORY WE HAD ON NC
POLICY WATCH THIS WEEK

WAS THE FACT THAT THERE IS A
MOVE AFOOT

IN CONGRESS TO RENAME LEJUNE

HIGH SCHOOL ON THE CAMPUS OF
THE CAN WE DO TO MAKE IT.

WALTER JONES HIGH SCHOOL IT HAS
PRODUCED A FIRESTORM OF

OPPOSITION WE HAVE GOTTEN 10'S
OF THOUSANDS OF SHARES AND

STORY ON OUR WEB SITE DOESN'T
SCORES OF NEGATIVE COMMENTS.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN.

>> DONNA MARTINEZ TELL US
SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.

>> SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCERS,

SO WE ALL KNOW WHAT
THEY ARE AND WE THINK OF THEM IN

TERMS OF FASHION AND
ENTERTAINMENT. BUT THERE'S A

GROWING TREND IN SOCIAL MEDIA
INFLUENCERS OF YOUNG FARMERS

ACROSS THIS COUNTRY. THEY HAVE
YOUTUBE CHANNELS WHERE THEY

HAVE 10'S 100'S OF THOUSANDS OF
FOLLOWERS AND THEY ARE HELPING

PEOPLE UNDERSTAND NOT ONLY
WHERE FOOD COMES FROM ABOUT THE

INDUSTRY ABOUT LOVE THE LAND
ABOUT SELF-RELIANCE AND ALL

THAT I HOPE THAT TREND COMES TO
NORTH CAROLINA WE NEED THAT.

>> JOHN HOOD TO TELL US
SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.

>> AN INDIVIDUAL FROM TEXAS
NAMED

PICO VISITED NORTH CAROLINA'S
OUTER BANKS.

>> IS THIS ANOTHER EMU,

>> NO, IT IS NOT.
>> ALL RIGHT.

>> AND LAST YEAR PICO VISITED
NEW YORK BUT STAYED CAPTORS

DON'T A SOLID TEXAS, HE IS A 7
A HALF FOOT MACO SHARK.

AND I BELIEVE THAT PICO IS
VISITING THESE OTHER STATES BUT

HE'S GOING TO KEEP HIS DOMICILE
IN TEXAS BECAUSE IT HAS NO

INCOME TAX.

[LAUGHTER]
>> I HOPE SO.

>> YOU KNOW FOLKS, JOHN LAST --
>> KIND OF A LOAN SHARK WHEN YOU

THINK ABOUT IT --
[ALL MOANING]

>> THIS IS REALLY GETTING WORSE.
WELL, I JUST GOT TO TELL YOU,

THIS IS A BIG BIRTHDAY
WEEKEND FOR SOME OF THE NC SPIN

FAMILY, FORMER HOUSE
SPEAKER JOE MAVERITIC IS

CELEBRATING A BIRTHDAY FORMER
SENATOR HOWARD LEE FORMER HEAD

OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
AND YOURS TRULY SO BUT DAYS

GREETINGS WERE ALL IN THE
SIGNS OF LEO.

WELL, YOU'VE HEARD OUR SPIN ON
THE ISSUES OF THE DAY.

TO STAY INFORMED ALL DURING THE
WEEK,

GIVE YOUR FEEDBACK AND READ MY
WEEKLY COLUMN VISIT OUR WEBSITE

NCSPIN.COM OR CATCH NC SPIN ON
FACEBOOK.

JOIN US NEXT WEEK WHEN WE WILL
HAVE MORE

BALANCED DEBATE FOR THE OLD
NORTH STATE.

UNTIL THEN, STAY INFORMED AND
WATCH OUT FOR THE SPIN.

♪