WEBVTT 00:02.902 --> 00:04.938 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% - [Announcer] This is NC Spin. 00:05.038 --> 00:07.173 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% An unrehearsed discussion on issues of interest 00:07.273 --> 00:08.341 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% to North Carolinians. 00:08.441 --> 00:11.444 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Now, here is your moderator, Tom Campbell. 00:14.114 --> 00:17.083 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% - Welcome to balanced debate for the Old North State. 00:17.183 --> 00:18.918 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% We hope you rested up over the Easter holiday 00:19.019 --> 00:21.488 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% 'cause we're got a full agenda for you. 00:21.588 --> 00:23.156 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% We begin by asking our panel 00:23.256 --> 00:25.225 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% to discuss a new program called Restart 00:25.325 --> 00:27.827 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that gives low performing schools in our state 00:27.927 --> 00:29.129 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% more flexibility. 00:29.229 --> 00:31.364 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% UNC President Margaret Spellings 00:31.464 --> 00:33.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% has just completed two years on the job 00:33.366 --> 00:35.602 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and we talk about a performance bonus given her. 00:35.702 --> 00:38.071 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% We have a prison crisis in our state 00:38.171 --> 00:39.606 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and we debate how we can fix it. 00:39.706 --> 00:41.241 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And of course, we won't stop 00:41.341 --> 00:43.977 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% until the panel tells us something we don't know. 00:44.077 --> 00:47.280 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Speaking of said panel, let's welcome this week's analysts. 00:47.380 --> 00:48.581 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% They include: 00:48.681 --> 00:50.984 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Howard Lee, former State Senator and former Chair 00:51.084 --> 00:52.886 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of the State Board of Education; 00:52.986 --> 00:55.989 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Chris Fitzsimon, columnist and political analyst; 00:56.089 --> 00:59.159 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Becki Gray with the John Locke Foundation; 00:59.259 --> 01:02.929 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and Bob Orr, the former Supreme Court Justice. 01:03.029 --> 01:05.298 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Well, we begin our uninterrupted debate 01:05.398 --> 01:08.068 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% after these brief messages from our underwriters. 01:10.270 --> 01:11.037 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - [Narrator] Life's busy, 01:11.137 --> 01:12.238 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% but you're in control. 01:12.338 --> 01:14.474 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% As an electric cooperative member, 01:14.574 --> 01:16.242 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% you have access to lots of tools 01:16.342 --> 01:18.678 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to help manage your home energy use and budget 01:18.778 --> 01:21.681 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% so you can focus on what's most important. 01:23.450 --> 01:26.119 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% - Quality of life enjoyed by North Carolinians 01:26.219 --> 01:28.121 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% comes from the sacrifice of our state 01:28.221 --> 01:30.256 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% and local government retirees. 01:30.356 --> 01:31.958 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% These men and women risked their lives 01:32.058 --> 01:33.026 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% in time of danger, 01:33.126 --> 01:34.360 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% they taught our children, 01:34.461 --> 01:36.062 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% kept our neighborhoods clean, 01:36.162 --> 01:38.832 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and protected the state's resources. 01:38.932 --> 01:41.634 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They are North Carolina's silent heroes. 01:41.734 --> 01:43.536 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% The North Carolina Retired Governmental 01:43.636 --> 01:45.004 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% Employees Association 01:45.105 --> 01:46.706 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% proudly serves as the voice 01:46.806 --> 01:50.677 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% for more than 300,000 retirees across North Carolina. 01:50.777 --> 01:52.445 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% Our retirees deserve no less 01:52.545 --> 01:54.547 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% and every day, we stand by them. 01:56.516 --> 01:58.751 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - For many years, North Carolina has struggled 01:58.852 --> 02:01.254 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% with what to do about low performing schools, 02:01.354 --> 02:03.389 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% those schools that don't achieve as much 02:03.490 --> 02:04.824 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% as others around them. 02:04.924 --> 02:07.627 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% We're now undertaking a program called Restart. 02:07.727 --> 02:09.162 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% Somewhat similar to charter schools, 02:09.262 --> 02:11.297 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and at these low performing schools 02:11.397 --> 02:13.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% are gonna have more flexibility and fewer regulations 02:13.933 --> 02:14.934 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% with which to deal. 02:15.034 --> 02:16.903 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% They can arbitrarily to decide 02:17.003 --> 02:19.873 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% to extend the school year, the school day, 02:19.973 --> 02:21.975 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% use funds in different ways, 02:22.075 --> 02:24.110 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% have more flexibility in hiring teachers, 02:24.210 --> 02:25.345 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% and teaching methods. 02:25.445 --> 02:26.579 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Howard Lee is a former Chair 02:26.679 --> 02:27.814 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of the State Board of Education 02:27.914 --> 02:29.983 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and someone who is now head of a foundation 02:30.083 --> 02:32.785 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% working directly with schools in our state. 02:32.886 --> 02:35.788 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% What's your opinion of this new Restart program? 02:35.889 --> 02:37.891 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - Well, I think it's a new name that's being 02:37.991 --> 02:40.093 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5% overlayed on an old continued problem, 02:40.193 --> 02:42.195 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60% and that is that 02:42.295 --> 02:44.197 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% while they give flexibility to the schools, 02:44.297 --> 02:47.567 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% many of these schools have had flexibility all along, 02:47.667 --> 02:49.636 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% especially in the office of the principal. 02:49.736 --> 02:51.638 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% I'm concerned that we are too 02:51.738 --> 02:53.840 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% completely missing the boat unless we're willing 02:53.940 --> 02:57.844 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% to completely flip the education pedagogy 02:57.944 --> 03:00.013 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% on its head and change how we are 03:00.113 --> 03:02.949 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% instructing and educating kids. 03:03.049 --> 03:05.218 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - So you're saying it's not rules and regulations 03:05.318 --> 03:07.654 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% as much as it is the actual instructional... 03:07.754 --> 03:09.556 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - The actual instructional process 03:09.656 --> 03:11.157 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and that, of course, starts, 03:11.257 --> 03:14.961 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% starts and stops with the principal at the school, 03:15.061 --> 03:17.297 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and keeping teachers in the classroom 03:17.397 --> 03:18.831 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% for an extended period of time. 03:18.932 --> 03:21.501 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Chris, a low performing school 03:21.601 --> 03:26.039 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% is defined as a school that scores a D or an F 03:26.139 --> 03:28.208 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% on the annual evaluation that it receives, 03:28.308 --> 03:31.444 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and it's due to the achievement that's less 03:31.544 --> 03:32.645 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% than expected 03:32.745 --> 03:34.347 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% for two out of three years. 03:34.447 --> 03:38.017 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There are currently 500 schools in North Carolina 03:38.117 --> 03:39.485 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% that fit into that category 03:39.586 --> 03:42.388 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and the list is growing every year. 03:42.488 --> 03:43.556 align:left position:45%,start line:89% size:45% Why? 03:43.656 --> 03:44.490 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Well, that's a good question, 03:44.591 --> 03:45.291 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% we need to figure it out. 03:45.391 --> 03:46.793 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% But one thing we do know 03:46.893 --> 03:49.596 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% is that 90, between 95 and 97% over the last years 03:49.696 --> 03:51.130 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5% of the schools that have a D or an F 03:51.231 --> 03:53.199 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% are schools with higher than 50% of their students 03:53.299 --> 03:54.901 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% who receive free and reduced lunch. 03:55.001 --> 03:56.903 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% That's based on the formula that we use 03:57.003 --> 03:58.204 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to give schools a letter grade. 03:58.304 --> 03:59.472 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% So if you're a low performing school, 03:59.572 --> 04:00.673 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% if you're a low income school, 04:00.773 --> 04:02.108 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and you dramatically improve, 04:02.208 --> 04:05.178 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% you don't, you could still have a D or an F 04:05.278 --> 04:06.379 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% year after year after year 04:06.479 --> 04:08.414 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% because all the numbers keep going up. 04:08.514 --> 04:09.682 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% There's been... 04:09.782 --> 04:11.050 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And that part of it is weighed more heavily... 04:11.150 --> 04:12.252 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - It's 80% of the grade, 04:12.352 --> 04:14.053 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and we've had Republican houses pass the bill 04:14.153 --> 04:15.288 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% saying it should be 50/50. 04:15.388 --> 04:16.389 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% We want you to have, 04:16.489 --> 04:17.590 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% get to a certain level, 04:17.690 --> 04:19.425 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but we wanna reward your growth and hardwork 04:19.525 --> 04:21.361 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and achievement, and the Senate has refused 04:21.461 --> 04:22.595 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% to even take that up. 04:22.695 --> 04:23.963 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% The House even put it in the budget one year. 04:24.063 --> 04:25.498 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So part of the problem, I don't disagree 04:25.598 --> 04:27.200 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% with Senator Lee at all, 04:27.300 --> 04:28.368 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but part of the problem we have 04:28.468 --> 04:29.902 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% is how we categorize these schools. 04:30.003 --> 04:31.738 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% There are a lot of 'em where kids are making progress 04:31.838 --> 04:33.206 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and they still get a D or an F 04:33.306 --> 04:34.641 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% which hurts the morale at the school, 04:34.741 --> 04:36.242 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% hurts the parents' view of the school, 04:36.342 --> 04:37.810 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% hurts how the teachers view themselves, 04:37.910 --> 04:39.045 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and I think we need to change that. 04:39.145 --> 04:41.347 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - Becki, the Department of Public Instruction 04:41.447 --> 04:42.849 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% talking about low performing schools, 04:42.949 --> 04:44.217 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% I mean, one of the things 04:44.317 --> 04:46.452 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% that comes to mind obviously, 04:46.552 --> 04:47.487 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% is we gotta come in here 04:47.587 --> 04:49.555 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% and reinforce and help 04:49.656 --> 04:52.292 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that school perhaps, more than we do other schools. 04:52.392 --> 04:54.994 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Department of Public Instruction says 04:55.094 --> 04:56.229 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% we don't have the money for that. 04:56.329 --> 04:58.898 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We're not given extra appropriations for that. 04:58.998 --> 05:01.934 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Significantly enough to make any difference. 05:02.035 --> 05:02.769 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% Should they? 05:02.869 --> 05:04.137 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% - Well, Tom... 05:04.237 --> 05:04.937 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% - [Tom] Should the legislature give it to them? 05:05.038 --> 05:06.439 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% - Well, that depends on 05:06.539 --> 05:08.441 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% do you need the money and what do you need it for? 05:08.541 --> 05:10.176 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% Some of these things like the Restart program 05:10.276 --> 05:11.377 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% that you're talking about, 05:11.477 --> 05:13.012 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% about giving those low performing schools 05:13.112 --> 05:15.748 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% more flexibility in the way that they use the money 05:15.848 --> 05:18.618 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% that they're getting, funding things in different ways, 05:18.718 --> 05:20.353 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% you know, as you mentioned, different curriculum, 05:20.453 --> 05:21.921 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% hours, all of those kind of things, 05:22.021 --> 05:24.190 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that's not a big appropriation difference, 05:24.290 --> 05:26.492 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% it's just a different way of managing school. 05:26.592 --> 05:27.960 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% So I think that, you know, 05:28.061 --> 05:29.128 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I mean, I push back a little bit on the premise 05:29.228 --> 05:30.296 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% of your question, 05:30.396 --> 05:31.564 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% the answer to improving education 05:31.664 --> 05:32.565 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% is not always 05:32.665 --> 05:34.467 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% do we need more money? 05:34.567 --> 05:36.002 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Or if we just spent more money, 05:36.102 --> 05:37.804 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% we would get better results. 05:37.904 --> 05:39.539 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - I'll accept that. It's what can we do, 05:39.639 --> 05:41.140 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and I think the Restart in these, 05:41.240 --> 05:43.943 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% giving local schools, giving low performing schools 05:44.043 --> 05:45.178 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% as Senator Lee mentioned, 05:45.278 --> 05:48.915 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% more authority to do things that they need 05:49.015 --> 05:51.150 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and putting the power into the hand of the principal 05:51.250 --> 05:53.319 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% to spend the money they're getting the way they need 05:53.419 --> 05:54.887 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% is where we need to start with this. 05:54.987 --> 05:56.155 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - Well, I was just gonna jump in and say 05:56.255 --> 05:57.390 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% but spending less isn't the answer, 05:57.490 --> 05:59.292 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and we're spending less per capita on students 05:59.392 --> 06:00.326 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% when you adjust for inflation than we were 06:00.426 --> 06:01.828 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% in 2008. 06:01.928 --> 06:03.096 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So we can argue, maybe we don't need to spend a ton more, 06:03.196 --> 06:04.597 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but we don't need to spend less. 06:04.697 --> 06:06.299 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% - Now let's talk about the subject of flexibility, Bob. 06:06.399 --> 06:09.469 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Because that seems to be the big buzz word 06:09.569 --> 06:12.071 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% in education these days, is flexibility. 06:12.171 --> 06:14.374 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% This Restart program, as Howard says, 06:14.474 --> 06:17.076 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it really is not new, it's just got a new name. 06:17.176 --> 06:20.012 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It was actually part of the improvement project, 06:20.113 --> 06:22.849 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% which was initiated by our friend Jerry Hancock, 06:22.949 --> 06:26.119 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% who was one of the litigants in the Leandro lawsuit. 06:26.219 --> 06:28.888 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% As well as ten superintendents across the state, 06:28.988 --> 06:29.956 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% what they did is they said, 06:30.056 --> 06:32.258 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% "Okay, what are the obstacles 06:32.358 --> 06:34.193 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% "in the way of these low performing schools? 06:34.293 --> 06:35.528 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% "And what can we do 06:35.628 --> 06:38.297 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% "to try to overcome these obstacles?" 06:38.398 --> 06:39.732 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Flexibility was, 06:39.832 --> 06:41.768 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% was a large part of what they came up to. 06:41.868 --> 06:44.470 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% From your standpoint, how important is flexibility? 06:44.570 --> 06:47.039 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% - Well, I think flexibility is 06:47.140 --> 06:48.241 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% a critical component. 06:48.341 --> 06:51.043 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% The whole concept behind charter schools 06:51.144 --> 06:52.545 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% was to experiment with ways 06:52.645 --> 06:54.947 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% to better educate our kids, 06:55.047 --> 06:57.116 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% but then move those things 06:57.216 --> 07:01.454 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% that did succeed into the broader public school system. 07:01.554 --> 07:02.655 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% But I have to say, 07:02.755 --> 07:04.457 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% take a little bit of an exception with Becki 07:04.557 --> 07:05.992 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% on the resources, 07:06.092 --> 07:08.327 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% many of these schools are in low wealth communities 07:08.428 --> 07:09.929 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and counties, and they need... 07:10.029 --> 07:11.164 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% - [Tom] A large number of 'em. 07:11.264 --> 07:13.466 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - Yes, and they need, they need resources 07:13.566 --> 07:16.269 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to attract really good teachers. 07:16.369 --> 07:17.203 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% We gotta figure out 07:17.303 --> 07:19.172 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% why they're low performing. 07:19.272 --> 07:20.807 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - Let's talk about some of that flexibility. 07:20.907 --> 07:22.241 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Howard, you were getting ready to say something, 07:22.341 --> 07:23.342 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% I'll let you say it in just a second. 07:23.443 --> 07:24.777 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% But part of it is 07:24.877 --> 07:27.280 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% giving these schools, these individual schools 07:27.380 --> 07:29.382 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% more flexibility as far as hiring teachers. 07:29.482 --> 07:32.084 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% The teachers don't have to be certified 07:32.185 --> 07:33.586 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% in the subject. 07:33.686 --> 07:36.489 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% How big a problem is this licensure problem 07:36.589 --> 07:37.990 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% so far as recruiting teachers? 07:38.090 --> 07:39.258 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% - Well, it's... 07:39.358 --> 07:40.493 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - [Tom] Particularly, lateral entrance. 07:40.593 --> 07:42.595 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - Yeah, it's really not that big of a 07:42.695 --> 07:44.730 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% impediment on being able to succeed 07:44.831 --> 07:46.332 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% in educating kids. 07:46.432 --> 07:48.768 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% That's the difference between the charter school 07:48.868 --> 07:50.703 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and the so called Restart school, 07:50.803 --> 07:53.773 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is that the Restarts must have certified teachers, 07:53.873 --> 07:56.442 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and the charters, of course, do not have to. 07:56.542 --> 07:57.944 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% But let me be very clear, 07:58.044 --> 08:00.313 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% there are a lot of leaders out here in our schools 08:00.413 --> 08:01.647 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% that don't even use 08:01.747 --> 08:04.417 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the level of flexibility that they already have. 08:04.517 --> 08:06.619 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And, of course, some of them are running up against 08:06.719 --> 08:08.221 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% the stone wall when they go out and try to 08:08.321 --> 08:10.189 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% hire teachers, and they, 08:10.289 --> 08:11.924 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% like in one school I work with, 08:12.024 --> 08:14.927 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they brought in five high-level math teachers 08:15.027 --> 08:16.629 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% in the first, in the school year, 08:16.729 --> 08:18.664 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and before three months were gone, 08:18.764 --> 08:20.633 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% all five of those teachers had left. 08:20.733 --> 08:21.834 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% - [Tom] Why? 08:21.934 --> 08:23.836 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - Because they, their circumstances, 08:23.936 --> 08:25.104 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% the environment, 08:25.204 --> 08:27.707 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and they just feel like they're working against 08:27.807 --> 08:30.743 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% a uphill battle trying to educate kids 08:30.843 --> 08:31.677 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% that are really kinda slow. 08:31.777 --> 08:33.045 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% I wish I were educational czar 08:33.145 --> 08:34.814 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% because the first thing I'd... 08:34.914 --> 08:36.182 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - I wish you were too, as a matter of fact. 08:36.282 --> 08:37.016 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - [Harold] The first thing I'd do 08:37.116 --> 08:37.884 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% is eliminate greed. 08:37.984 --> 08:38.951 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% - We can vote, yeah. 08:39.051 --> 08:39.886 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% - But at any rate. 08:39.986 --> 08:41.654 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Becki, one of the other topics 08:41.754 --> 08:43.289 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% they're talking about in this flexibility 08:43.389 --> 08:45.124 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% is the ability to be able to control 08:45.224 --> 08:46.559 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% the school calendar better, 08:46.659 --> 08:48.661 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% particularly, as it relates to the beginning 08:48.761 --> 08:50.863 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% of the school year, the end of the school year. 08:50.963 --> 08:54.300 align:left position:25%,start line:77% size:65% Craig Horn, in the North Carolina House of Representatives, 08:54.400 --> 08:57.537 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% every year introduces a legislation 08:57.637 --> 09:00.139 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to be able to give schools more flexibility. 09:00.239 --> 09:02.441 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It always gets beaten by 09:02.542 --> 09:05.244 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% the Leisure and Hospitality Industry, 09:05.344 --> 09:08.214 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% why shouldn't schools have more flexibility? 09:08.314 --> 09:09.682 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% - I think they should. 09:09.782 --> 09:11.117 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And it's not just starting date and ending date, 09:11.217 --> 09:13.185 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% but what about flexibility for the school week? 09:13.286 --> 09:15.555 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% One of these Restart schools, at least one of 'em 09:15.655 --> 09:17.089 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% have changed the school week 09:17.189 --> 09:20.059 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% where there are extended hours Monday through Thursday, 09:20.159 --> 09:22.595 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Friday is a shorter day for the students, 09:22.695 --> 09:25.064 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% gives teachers a built-in planning day 09:25.164 --> 09:27.233 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% to regroup, meet within themselves, 09:27.333 --> 09:29.602 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% mentor, get geared up for the next week. 09:29.702 --> 09:30.970 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So if that works better for your school, 09:31.070 --> 09:33.039 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% why not have that flexibility? 09:33.139 --> 09:34.507 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% You know, we talk about the school calendar, 09:34.607 --> 09:35.908 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% we think of start and end dates, 09:36.008 --> 09:37.276 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% but there's a lot, 09:37.376 --> 09:38.644 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% think of all the flexibility that you could do 09:38.744 --> 09:39.879 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% within your school day. 09:39.979 --> 09:41.113 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - Well the only problem with that 09:41.213 --> 09:41.914 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% is if you've got three children and they're in 09:42.014 --> 09:43.416 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% two different schools, 09:43.516 --> 09:44.917 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and one of 'em starts the school day at seven a.m. 09:45.017 --> 09:46.419 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and the next one starts at nine, 09:46.519 --> 09:49.021 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and they don't work, they don't have class on Friday. 09:49.121 --> 09:50.323 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% I mean, it does get to be complicated. 09:50.423 --> 09:51.791 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% - It gets complicated, 09:51.891 --> 09:53.192 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% but Tom, you know, I think we need to quit trying 09:53.292 --> 09:56.662 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to design a school system that is convenient 09:56.762 --> 09:59.665 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and one that really works for outcomes of kids 09:59.765 --> 10:01.067 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% and focus on that. 10:01.167 --> 10:04.604 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - So, Bob, this Restart program, 10:04.704 --> 10:07.373 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% we got 104 schools that are in it right now, 10:07.473 --> 10:09.408 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% they are 14 more awaiting approval 10:09.508 --> 10:11.277 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% from the State Board of Education, 10:11.377 --> 10:14.547 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% this looks like it's getting ready to be, 10:14.647 --> 10:18.084 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a sort of a snowball down the hill, avalanche 10:18.184 --> 10:19.485 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that we're forming here, 10:19.585 --> 10:22.021 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and it's still a very early thing. 10:22.121 --> 10:23.456 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Very quickly, I wanna go around 10:23.556 --> 10:24.657 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% and ask everybody, 10:24.757 --> 10:26.058 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% what's it gonna take for us to know 10:26.158 --> 10:27.727 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% whether it's working or not? 10:27.827 --> 10:29.428 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% - Well, we're gonna, 10:29.528 --> 10:31.530 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% whether the kids coming out of these schools 10:31.631 --> 10:33.165 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% perform adequately on tests. 10:33.265 --> 10:35.267 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% - That's gonna take several years, doesn't it? 10:35.368 --> 10:36.569 align:left position:42.5%,start line:89% size:47.5% - Sure. 10:36.669 --> 10:39.672 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% I mean, this is, this is moving the Titanic 10:39.772 --> 10:43.542 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% in incremental ways. 10:43.643 --> 10:44.977 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Not in some quick turnaround. 10:45.077 --> 10:46.212 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - [Tom] Quickly, Becki, what do you think? 10:46.312 --> 10:47.480 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - You know, to this point, you know 10:47.580 --> 10:49.115 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% any of those changes, we need to keep the data, 10:49.215 --> 10:49.949 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% it's too early. 10:50.049 --> 10:51.484 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% This is relatively new. 10:51.584 --> 10:53.185 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% This is too early to have the data to know really, 10:53.285 --> 10:54.920 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% to make those measurements and make clear. 10:55.021 --> 10:56.689 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% But I think it's significant that this started 10:56.789 --> 10:57.657 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% with five schools, 10:57.757 --> 10:59.859 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% as you mentioned, it's now 104. 10:59.959 --> 11:01.761 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% We have 14 that are in the cue, 11:01.861 --> 11:03.896 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% so school administrators, principals, 11:03.996 --> 11:04.897 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% people who are doing this, 11:04.997 --> 11:05.898 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% I think that's a sign, 11:05.998 --> 11:07.266 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% they want the flexibility. 11:07.366 --> 11:08.768 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Chris? 11:08.868 --> 11:09.802 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% - Well, we're gonna know in the test scores, again, 11:09.902 --> 11:11.037 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but it's gonna take a long time. 11:11.137 --> 11:12.004 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% I wanna say quickly, one of the things 11:12.104 --> 11:13.239 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% I think we need to shift 11:13.339 --> 11:14.440 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% is start talking about how to fix, 11:14.540 --> 11:15.875 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% help these schools, and start thinking about 11:15.975 --> 11:17.343 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% how to help these students. 11:17.443 --> 11:18.778 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% If you talk to people who run community schools, 11:18.878 --> 11:20.780 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% they'll tell you heartbreaking stories of kids 11:20.880 --> 11:21.781 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% who have never seen a dentist 11:21.881 --> 11:23.215 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and people think they're stupid. 11:23.315 --> 11:25.051 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Or people who's, kids who's glasses don't work... 11:25.151 --> 11:26.318 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% - They're singing your song, aren't they, Howard? 11:26.419 --> 11:27.653 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - But I mean, that's part of what I wish 11:27.753 --> 11:29.522 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% we could give these schools flexibility 11:29.622 --> 11:32.224 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and resources to make sure every kid in that class 11:32.324 --> 11:33.959 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% somehow, somebody's helping him or her 11:34.060 --> 11:35.294 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% find appropriate care. 11:35.394 --> 11:36.696 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Howard, what's your response? 11:36.796 --> 11:39.598 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - I would measure by one, one standard only, 11:39.699 --> 11:42.068 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and that is keeping teachers in the classroom 11:42.168 --> 11:43.803 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% for an extended period of years, 11:43.903 --> 11:46.238 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and I think, if you can do that, 11:46.338 --> 11:49.341 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you can see obvious and very quick results coming 11:49.442 --> 11:51.377 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% as I have seen in one school in Durham, 11:51.477 --> 11:52.878 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% where I had a great principal, 11:52.978 --> 11:54.580 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and he was able to cut down on teacher turnover, 11:54.680 --> 11:55.781 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and the test scores of these kids 11:55.881 --> 11:57.049 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% - But you've put your finger 11:57.149 --> 11:58.117 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% on something here. - Have gone up. 11:58.217 --> 11:59.752 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% - David Brooks wrote a column, 11:59.852 --> 12:01.287 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% I don't know whether you read it a couple weeks ago 12:01.387 --> 12:03.989 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% or not, but he was talking about the keys to success 12:04.090 --> 12:05.357 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% in schools, and he mentioned 12:05.458 --> 12:07.560 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that the principals were really the primary key 12:07.660 --> 12:09.028 align:left position:37.5%,start line:89% size:52.5% to success. 12:09.128 --> 12:11.764 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And he said, for a principal to be really effective, 12:11.864 --> 12:15.334 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% they've got to have four to seven years in that school. 12:15.434 --> 12:18.270 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The problem is the average principal leaves 12:18.370 --> 12:19.872 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% after about three years because of what 12:19.972 --> 12:21.307 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% they have to put up with. 12:21.407 --> 12:23.075 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% - And keep the local school board out of his hair. 12:23.175 --> 12:24.076 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% - [Tom] Yeah. 12:24.176 --> 12:25.478 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% - Because that to me 12:25.578 --> 12:27.146 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% is one of the great impediments of our schools. 12:27.246 --> 12:28.514 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - And the office. 12:28.614 --> 12:29.949 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% - And giving more flexibility to those principals 12:30.049 --> 12:31.083 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% may very well be the key 12:31.183 --> 12:32.318 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to keeping them in the schools. 12:32.418 --> 12:33.319 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - Final question in this subject. 12:33.419 --> 12:35.187 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% This business of flexibility. 12:35.287 --> 12:37.757 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% If we think it is such a good idea, 12:37.857 --> 12:39.058 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% and it seems to be one 12:39.158 --> 12:40.626 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% that is getting a lot of buzz. 12:40.726 --> 12:42.661 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% If we think it's such a good idea, 12:42.762 --> 12:45.397 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% why not give every school in North Carolina 12:45.498 --> 12:48.467 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% the same flexibility we give our charter schools, Howard? 12:48.567 --> 12:49.435 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% - Yeah, yeah. 12:49.535 --> 12:50.402 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I've always preached that song, 12:50.503 --> 12:52.505 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% and I'm singing that song, 12:52.605 --> 12:53.806 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% and I certainly believe 12:53.906 --> 12:55.407 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that that would be a major step forward, 12:55.508 --> 12:57.510 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and it would commit to the fact 12:57.610 --> 12:59.545 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% that we are really serious about wanting to... 12:59.645 --> 13:01.547 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - We could probably save some money 13:01.647 --> 13:03.883 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% in the Department of Public Instruction too, 13:03.983 --> 13:05.117 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% couldn't we? 13:05.217 --> 13:06.318 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - Well, and another thing I would do, 13:06.418 --> 13:07.553 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and this is probably gonna upset some people, 13:07.653 --> 13:09.355 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% but I would take a real close look 13:09.455 --> 13:11.791 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% at whether or not busing isn't impacting 13:11.891 --> 13:14.193 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% the educational experiences of many of our children. 13:14.293 --> 13:15.795 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - And this is the one thing, by the way, 13:15.895 --> 13:18.664 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that these Restart school have to provide 13:18.764 --> 13:19.932 align:left position:37.5%,start line:89% size:52.5% is busing. 13:20.032 --> 13:20.766 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% - Absolutely. 13:20.866 --> 13:21.801 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% - What do you think? 13:21.901 --> 13:23.068 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% Why not give 'em all flexibility? 13:23.169 --> 13:23.903 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - Well I think, you know, flexibility. 13:24.003 --> 13:25.104 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% - Don't we trust 'em? 13:25.204 --> 13:26.338 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - Well, I think we should trust 'em more, 13:26.438 --> 13:28.207 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% but I also think flexibility sometimes 13:28.307 --> 13:29.408 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% replaces the investment. 13:29.508 --> 13:30.442 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% I think we need both. 13:30.543 --> 13:31.677 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% You can't say here's flex- 13:31.777 --> 13:32.945 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you don't need anymore resources for these kids 13:33.045 --> 13:34.480 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who are struggling, just a lot more flexibility. 13:34.580 --> 13:35.748 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% No, you need both. 13:35.848 --> 13:37.049 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You need to figure out a way to reach these kids 13:37.149 --> 13:38.184 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and help them and their families. 13:38.284 --> 13:39.018 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% - Becki, why not give it all? 13:39.118 --> 13:40.052 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% - I think we should. 13:40.152 --> 13:41.287 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% And I think we should 13:41.387 --> 13:44.590 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% treat principals as CEOs of these schools. 13:44.690 --> 13:46.392 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And to Chris's point, you know 13:46.492 --> 13:49.094 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the focus needs to be on the outcomes of the kids 13:49.195 --> 13:52.498 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in the classroom managed by really good teachers. 13:52.598 --> 13:54.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% - Bob, it looks like we can fix the school system. 13:54.300 --> 13:55.201 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% - Yeah, absolutely. 13:55.301 --> 13:56.368 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% [laughs] 13:56.468 --> 13:57.870 align:left position:37.5%,start line:89% size:52.5% Creativity 13:57.970 --> 14:00.840 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% comes out of flexibility. 14:00.940 --> 14:03.776 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And creativity is how you solve these kinds 14:03.876 --> 14:05.144 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% of problems. 14:05.244 --> 14:05.744 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And it may be different in each school. 14:05.845 --> 14:06.879 align:left position:42.5%,start line:89% size:47.5% - True. 14:06.979 --> 14:08.314 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% - Talking about education, 14:08.414 --> 14:10.482 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% UNC President Margaret Spellings recently observed 14:10.583 --> 14:12.751 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% her two year anniversary of leadership 14:12.852 --> 14:14.086 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% at our university system. 14:14.186 --> 14:17.022 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% She started with controversy over her hiring 14:17.122 --> 14:18.791 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and had to deal with a sports scandal, 14:18.891 --> 14:22.361 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% a legislature not pleased with the system's progress, 14:22.461 --> 14:24.730 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and most recently, with a maverick board 14:24.830 --> 14:26.465 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% that is interested in getting involved 14:26.565 --> 14:29.568 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% in the running of the system and making great changes. 14:29.668 --> 14:32.338 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Her own evaluation of her first two years, 14:32.438 --> 14:34.306 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% it's that she's pleased but not satisfied 14:34.406 --> 14:35.574 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% with what she's accomplished. 14:35.674 --> 14:37.576 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% But the UNC Board of Governors gave her a 14:37.676 --> 14:39.511 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% $95,000 bonus. 14:39.612 --> 14:42.214 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% Even that was met with 14:42.314 --> 14:46.518 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% opposition inside the board that strongly disagreed with it. 14:46.619 --> 14:49.688 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Bob Orr, board member Tom Fetzer 14:49.788 --> 14:53.492 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% was one of those who opposed publicly this bonus. 14:53.592 --> 14:55.828 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Saying Spellings makes three quarters of 14:55.928 --> 14:57.897 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% $775,000 a year, 14:57.997 --> 15:01.934 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% taxpayers shouldn't have to add another hundred grand, 15:02.034 --> 15:03.135 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% and he says, 15:03.235 --> 15:05.304 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "How can the system talk about reducing cost 15:05.404 --> 15:09.074 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% "in education when it gives administrators large bonuses?" 15:09.174 --> 15:10.976 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% Your take on this. 15:11.076 --> 15:14.847 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% - Well, it's a big job that Margaret Spellings has. 15:14.947 --> 15:18.417 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% She's by all accounts, done an exceptional job 15:18.517 --> 15:19.618 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% in her first two years. 15:19.718 --> 15:21.687 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5% And, I agree, it's a lotta money. 15:21.787 --> 15:23.355 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% But when you look around the state 15:23.455 --> 15:25.858 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% at Tom Fetzer's alma mater Wake Forest, 15:25.958 --> 15:29.528 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% the president of Wake Forest makes four million dollars 15:29.628 --> 15:30.863 align:left position:42.5%,start line:89% size:47.5% a year. 15:30.963 --> 15:33.299 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% You go over to the athletic side, 15:33.399 --> 15:35.935 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% we have basketball and football coaches 15:36.035 --> 15:37.770 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% making two million dollars a year. 15:37.870 --> 15:39.672 align:left position:37.5%,start line:89% size:52.5% So, to me, 15:39.772 --> 15:43.409 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% putting it in proportion what she's getting paid 15:43.509 --> 15:48.113 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% for managing a 17 member system 15:48.213 --> 15:52.151 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% with a very diverse and different group of schools. 15:52.251 --> 15:54.553 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% - 17 chancellors, 17 boards, 15:54.653 --> 15:56.822 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and a board of governor, and the legislature. 15:56.922 --> 15:57.856 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% - [Bob] And the legislature. 15:57.957 --> 15:58.857 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% [laughs] 15:58.958 --> 16:00.125 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% Yeah, it's a big job. 16:00.225 --> 16:01.360 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - You know, I don't know that I'd do it 16:01.460 --> 16:02.361 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% for that amount of money. 16:02.461 --> 16:03.629 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Howard, you take on this thing. 16:03.729 --> 16:04.697 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% - Well, I tell ya, 16:04.797 --> 16:07.132 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% $775,000 is a lotta money, 16:07.232 --> 16:09.969 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and that's probably among the highest paid 16:10.069 --> 16:13.005 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% public university leaders in the country. 16:13.105 --> 16:14.974 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% If not, it's certainly in the state. 16:15.074 --> 16:18.510 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% I think Margaret has done a fine job 16:18.610 --> 16:21.213 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% leading the university during her first two years, 16:21.313 --> 16:25.451 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but I don't think giving a bonus at this time 16:25.551 --> 16:28.120 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is in the best interest of our education system. 16:28.220 --> 16:31.590 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Number one, it sends a terrible message down the line 16:31.690 --> 16:33.959 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to faculty members, many of whom are leaving 16:34.059 --> 16:35.627 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% because they feel they're underpaid, 16:35.728 --> 16:37.629 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and they're going to private institutions. 16:37.730 --> 16:40.065 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% We cannot compare private institutions 16:40.165 --> 16:42.868 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% with public institutions in terms of the money they pay 16:42.968 --> 16:44.036 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% when we look at the tuition. 16:44.136 --> 16:45.537 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Chris, should we have, 16:45.637 --> 16:47.473 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% should public employees have performance bonuses? 16:47.573 --> 16:49.174 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - Well I think it should be some part 16:49.274 --> 16:51.210 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% of evaluation. 16:51.310 --> 16:52.444 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% My issue with this is 16:52.544 --> 16:55.514 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% I think she, $775,000 is a lot of money, 16:55.614 --> 16:57.349 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% but I think you could argue, 16:57.449 --> 16:59.151 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60% and Bob I thought did effectively, 16:59.251 --> 17:00.519 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that she might deserve that much money. 17:00.619 --> 17:01.754 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% The bonus is the question. 17:01.854 --> 17:04.156 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I think in giving, when we're losing faculty 17:04.256 --> 17:05.724 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% as Howard mentioned, I don't think a lotta people 17:05.824 --> 17:08.060 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% in North Carolina are having a $95,000 a year bonus, 17:08.160 --> 17:09.261 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% but I will say this, 17:09.361 --> 17:10.562 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% she's having to put up with a board 17:10.662 --> 17:12.297 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and a legislative leadership, 17:12.398 --> 17:13.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that Senate leadership, it's no secret, 17:13.866 --> 17:15.367 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% did not want her to get the job in the first place, 17:15.467 --> 17:17.236 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and some of the appointees on the board, 17:17.336 --> 17:18.470 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% still don't want her in that job. 17:18.570 --> 17:20.439 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - She has opposition from the legislature, 17:20.539 --> 17:21.940 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% she has opposition from her own board, 17:22.041 --> 17:24.376 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% or some of the board. 17:24.476 --> 17:25.577 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - [Chris] Some of the members of the board. 17:25.677 --> 17:26.645 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - And she had the faculty, and students. 17:26.745 --> 17:28.113 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - It's worth remembering many members 17:28.213 --> 17:30.582 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% of the search committee that picked her as incumbents 17:30.682 --> 17:32.184 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% ran for re-election and were not picked 17:32.284 --> 17:33.786 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% by the legislative leaders because they were mad 17:33.886 --> 17:34.686 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% that she was hired in the first place. 17:34.787 --> 17:36.121 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Let's get back to that 17:36.221 --> 17:38.891 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% sort of rogue board that she's dealing with right now. 17:38.991 --> 17:40.959 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I don't think we've ever, in all the years 17:41.060 --> 17:42.194 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% that we've seen this, 17:42.294 --> 17:44.063 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and I remember Bill Friday telling us 17:44.163 --> 17:47.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% when that 32 member board was originally constituted 17:47.833 --> 17:50.069 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% he didn't like it and for some of these same reasons. 17:50.169 --> 17:52.938 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% But back to this Board of Governors, 17:53.038 --> 17:55.741 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they seem to be much more proactive, Becki, 17:55.841 --> 17:57.176 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% than what we've seen in the past. 17:57.276 --> 17:59.912 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% In fact, it looks like they wanna meddle in 18:00.012 --> 18:02.748 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the operations of the university instead of setting policy. 18:02.848 --> 18:04.149 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Is that an accurate read? 18:04.249 --> 18:06.518 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I think that's probably an accurate read, 18:06.618 --> 18:08.887 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% but this is a different board, this is a different time. 18:08.987 --> 18:11.757 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% This board moved forward with the hiring 18:11.857 --> 18:12.991 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% of Margaret Spellings, 18:13.092 --> 18:15.260 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with some changes within the university system 18:15.360 --> 18:16.662 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that they were gonna ask questions. 18:16.762 --> 18:18.030 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% I think there's been a history 18:18.130 --> 18:19.798 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% on the Board of Governors of 18:19.898 --> 18:22.101 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% they just kind of approved anything 18:22.201 --> 18:23.235 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that was put before them, 18:23.335 --> 18:24.770 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% when you have different leadership, 18:24.870 --> 18:27.639 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% you mentioned Bill Friday, not a lot of controversy. 18:27.739 --> 18:29.875 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% This is a different board, it's a different time. 18:29.975 --> 18:31.443 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% They're challenging, they're disruptive, 18:31.543 --> 18:32.444 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% they're asking questions. 18:32.544 --> 18:35.481 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% It is different, you're right. 18:35.581 --> 18:37.783 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I don't think we know now whether it's better or worse. 18:37.883 --> 18:39.384 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% I think Margaret Spellings is doing 18:39.485 --> 18:40.385 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% a outstanding job of... 18:40.486 --> 18:41.687 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - Well she's got three more years 18:41.787 --> 18:42.921 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% left on this contract. 18:43.021 --> 18:45.524 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And frankly, with all that she's dealing with. 18:45.624 --> 18:46.758 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% - [Becki] It's hard to manage. 18:46.859 --> 18:47.960 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - I'm just wondering is she gonna stay 18:48.060 --> 18:49.194 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% the whole three years? 18:49.294 --> 18:50.963 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Or do you think you might 18:51.063 --> 18:52.931 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% just throw up her hands and say, 18:53.031 --> 18:54.166 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% "It ain't worth it." 18:54.266 --> 18:55.601 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - I don't think she's that kind of leader. 18:55.701 --> 18:56.869 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% I think that, you know, 18:56.969 --> 18:58.403 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% she's one that has committed to his, 18:58.504 --> 18:59.838 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% she's had a good... 18:59.938 --> 19:01.173 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% - Well, she was George Bush's Secretary of Education. 19:01.273 --> 19:02.674 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% - This is a tough lady. 19:02.774 --> 19:04.343 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I don't think she's gonna throw her hands up. 19:04.443 --> 19:05.544 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - It is not a secret in Chapel Hill 19:05.644 --> 19:06.778 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% however, that she's very frustrated. 19:06.879 --> 19:08.514 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Not at that the board is all republicans, 19:08.614 --> 19:10.149 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% she's a republican and then the past board 19:10.249 --> 19:11.316 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% that put her on there. 19:11.416 --> 19:12.251 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% But the new members of the board, 19:12.351 --> 19:13.785 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Fetzer and Rucho and these guys 19:13.886 --> 19:15.187 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% have been openly critical of her, 19:15.287 --> 19:16.588 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% have been trying to take away her authority 19:16.688 --> 19:17.523 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% inside the system. 19:17.623 --> 19:18.824 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's not a secret in Chapel Hill 19:18.924 --> 19:20.058 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% that she's very frustrated. 19:20.159 --> 19:21.493 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - And Bob, that is, that is something 19:21.593 --> 19:22.961 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% that is new from that standpoint. 19:23.061 --> 19:24.863 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% Typically, if there have been squabbles 19:24.963 --> 19:26.165 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% inside the Board of Governors, 19:26.265 --> 19:27.432 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% we hadn't heard much about it. 19:27.533 --> 19:28.967 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They're going public. - It's been very public. 19:29.067 --> 19:31.970 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yeah, this is much more political oriented board, 19:32.070 --> 19:33.639 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% certainly in the newest members, 19:33.739 --> 19:35.674 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% but if anybody can handle it, 19:35.774 --> 19:37.609 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% Margaret Spellings can. 19:37.709 --> 19:39.611 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% And I think she's a great advocate 19:39.711 --> 19:41.079 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% for each of those campuses, 19:41.180 --> 19:44.449 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and for those faculty members and staff people. 19:45.551 --> 19:48.487 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% The optics of the bonus may be a problem. 19:48.587 --> 19:51.590 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% But, if not her, who would we have? 19:51.690 --> 19:53.225 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And I think you have to go back to, you know, 19:53.325 --> 19:54.493 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% what kind of job is she doing? 19:54.593 --> 19:56.161 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% What does our university system look like? 19:56.261 --> 19:57.462 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Graduation rates are up, 19:57.563 --> 19:58.730 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% tuition is down, 19:58.830 --> 20:00.632 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% college education is more available 20:00.732 --> 20:02.701 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to more North Carolinians than it ever has been. 20:02.801 --> 20:04.469 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - Need to move on, if you don't mind. 20:04.570 --> 20:07.573 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% 2017 was the deadliest year in our 20:07.673 --> 20:08.840 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% North Carolina prison system. 20:08.941 --> 20:10.809 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% Both for prisoners as well as guards. 20:10.909 --> 20:14.913 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% We had roughly 37,000 inmates in our prisons, 20:15.013 --> 20:17.282 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and we're told about 5,000 are behind bars 20:17.382 --> 20:19.351 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% 23 or 24 hours a day. 20:19.451 --> 20:23.188 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% More than one in five reportedly has mental illness. 20:23.288 --> 20:26.058 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% And we've got staff shortages of 25% 20:26.158 --> 20:27.960 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% or even higher in some of our prisons. 20:28.060 --> 20:31.096 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% More leaving the job than are being recruited to work 20:31.196 --> 20:35.334 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% because they won't accept the $32,000 a year salary. 20:35.434 --> 20:36.935 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Because of risk. 20:37.035 --> 20:39.571 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% And morale is at an all time low. 20:39.671 --> 20:41.807 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Lawmakers are screaming to get something done. 20:41.907 --> 20:44.109 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Chris Fitzsimon, Secretary of Public Safety 20:44.209 --> 20:46.612 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Erik Hooks stated the obvious in saying that 20:46.712 --> 20:48.580 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% our prisons are dangerous places 20:48.680 --> 20:49.982 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% filled with dangerous people, 20:50.082 --> 20:52.351 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% but we've got a prison crisis right now 20:52.451 --> 20:53.552 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% in North Carolina. 20:53.652 --> 20:55.320 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Where do you get started trying to fix it? 20:55.420 --> 20:56.588 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% - Well this would be, 20:56.688 --> 20:58.423 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% I would hope, and we've done this in our past 20:58.523 --> 20:59.691 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5% in North Carolina, 20:59.791 --> 21:01.026 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% that we would be able to convene some sort of, 21:01.126 --> 21:03.061 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% in the long-term, or medium-term 21:03.161 --> 21:04.396 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% some sort of bipartisan commission 21:04.496 --> 21:06.398 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to really look at this, look at what other states do, 21:06.498 --> 21:07.332 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% come up with a recommendation. 21:07.432 --> 21:08.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% Just very complicated. 21:08.400 --> 21:09.468 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% - The legislature has one. 21:09.568 --> 21:10.936 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% - Well, I know. 21:11.036 --> 21:12.070 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% But we'll see how bipartisan they will be in the end. 21:12.170 --> 21:12.904 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% And I, what I'd like, 21:13.005 --> 21:14.406 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% there's several things. 21:14.506 --> 21:15.641 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% First of all, we still have a lot of nonviolent people 21:15.741 --> 21:17.075 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% who shouldn't be there in the first place. 21:17.175 --> 21:19.011 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And we've made some progress in North Carolina 21:19.111 --> 21:19.845 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% in doing that. 21:19.945 --> 21:21.113 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Secondly, you mentioned, 21:21.213 --> 21:22.514 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% think about doing that job for $32,000 a year 21:22.614 --> 21:24.349 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and why does it only pay $32,000 a year? 21:24.449 --> 21:26.918 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% You should be doubled that just to start in those jobs. 21:27.019 --> 21:29.254 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And thirdly, we have to figure out a way 21:29.354 --> 21:30.956 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to keep these places safe 21:31.056 --> 21:32.324 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and mental illness is a big issue 21:32.424 --> 21:33.525 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% you also raised. 21:33.625 --> 21:34.593 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% We're still struggling in North Carolina 21:34.693 --> 21:36.128 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to deal with the prison system, 21:36.228 --> 21:38.730 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% is our largest mental health facility. 21:38.830 --> 21:40.265 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Which, a lot of the people shouldn't be there 21:40.365 --> 21:41.533 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% in the first place. 21:41.633 --> 21:42.834 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - But it shouldn't be from that standpoint. 21:42.934 --> 21:43.802 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - [Chris] That's exactly right, that's my point. 21:43.902 --> 21:45.070 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% - Secretary Hooks, Bob, says 21:45.170 --> 21:45.904 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% that what you've got in our prisons 21:46.004 --> 21:47.239 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in many instances today, 21:47.339 --> 21:48.907 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% is you've got a bunch of mean people 21:49.007 --> 21:51.443 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% mixed up with sick people. 21:51.543 --> 21:53.278 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And no wonder we got the problems we got. 21:53.378 --> 21:56.948 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% But it raises this question that Chris has just mentioned 21:57.049 --> 21:58.317 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% of mental, mentally ill, 21:58.417 --> 22:01.653 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% our state just has a dismal 22:01.753 --> 22:04.589 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% record in performance in treating mentally ill. 22:04.690 --> 22:06.024 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% - We've done a poor job 22:06.124 --> 22:08.226 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60% and you know, the critical thing is 22:08.327 --> 22:11.596 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% that we invest our resources on the front end 22:11.697 --> 22:15.000 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% so that people aren't being funneled into 22:15.100 --> 22:17.869 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% the criminal justice system and the prison system 22:17.969 --> 22:20.439 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% who really, early on could've been 22:20.539 --> 22:23.575 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% diverted and helped in other kinds of programs. 22:23.675 --> 22:26.178 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% - Howard, just pouring more money into our prisons. 22:26.278 --> 22:28.080 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% That ain't gonna fix it, is it? 22:28.180 --> 22:29.514 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - That's not gonna fix it 22:29.614 --> 22:31.116 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% 'cause we made a bad mistake when we decided to 22:31.216 --> 22:33.485 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% adopt private prisons years ago 22:33.585 --> 22:35.587 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and started piling a lot of people into these prisons 22:35.687 --> 22:37.889 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that are now transferred into these 22:37.989 --> 22:39.257 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% more public institutions. 22:39.358 --> 22:40.459 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% But that's not gonna fix it. 22:40.559 --> 22:42.694 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It's, I agree with Chris. 22:42.794 --> 22:44.596 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% First we gotta start looking at the 22:44.696 --> 22:46.665 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% what we're paying personnel to go in 22:46.765 --> 22:47.499 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% and take a risk. 22:47.599 --> 22:48.967 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% And third, I think, 22:49.067 --> 22:50.969 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% we need to think seriously about 22:51.069 --> 22:52.237 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% getting some people outta prison 22:52.337 --> 22:54.206 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60% who don't need to be incarcerated. 22:54.306 --> 22:57.376 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - And preparing those to re-enter real life 22:57.476 --> 22:59.411 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as they are transitioning from prison. 22:59.511 --> 23:01.179 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% Back end too, regular society. 23:01.279 --> 23:02.481 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Well that's what we're doing, 23:02.581 --> 23:03.148 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% just training to be better criminals. 23:03.248 --> 23:04.416 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% - But you know, 23:04.516 --> 23:05.684 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% there's a movement and it's happened in some 23:05.784 --> 23:06.351 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% police departments in North Carolina. 23:06.451 --> 23:07.152 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% - We got gangs. 23:07.252 --> 23:08.353 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - But what we also have, 23:08.453 --> 23:09.588 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% there's a lot of people who end up in prison 23:09.688 --> 23:10.789 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% in the first place are mentally ill people 23:10.889 --> 23:11.990 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% who police don't know how to handle, 23:12.090 --> 23:12.924 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or law enforcement don't know how to handle, 23:13.024 --> 23:14.126 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% there are training programs, 23:14.226 --> 23:15.227 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% some jurisdictions have 'em, some don't. 23:15.327 --> 23:16.395 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% Some places in the country 23:16.495 --> 23:17.863 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% have made big progress 23:17.963 --> 23:19.531 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% keeping people with mental illness out of prison 23:19.631 --> 23:20.966 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% in the first place. 23:21.066 --> 23:21.833 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% That's not the only answer, it's a small piece 23:21.933 --> 23:22.768 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% of a complicated puzzle. 23:22.868 --> 23:24.169 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% - Talk about the mentally ill. 23:24.269 --> 23:25.704 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You talk to your sheriffs in North Carolina, 23:25.804 --> 23:26.538 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% they'll tell you the problem 23:26.638 --> 23:27.873 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% they're running in to. 23:27.973 --> 23:29.341 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Alright, gotta transition now 23:29.441 --> 23:30.642 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% to the time of the show 23:30.742 --> 23:32.344 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% when we ask the panel to tell us something 23:32.444 --> 23:33.178 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% we don't know. 23:33.278 --> 23:34.346 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Chris Fitzsimon. 23:34.446 --> 23:35.847 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - The State republican party announced 23:35.947 --> 23:37.182 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% one of its keynote speakers at its convention in June 23:37.282 --> 23:38.784 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% is Corey Lewanowski. 23:38.884 --> 23:41.453 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Who was former, who was President Trump's 23:41.553 --> 23:43.188 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% former campaign manager who's been interviewed 23:43.288 --> 23:44.322 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% by the intelligence committees, 23:44.423 --> 23:45.424 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% a special prosecutor, 23:45.524 --> 23:47.025 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% I'm not making a prediction, 23:47.125 --> 23:48.226 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% but it wouldn't be shocking if he ran into 23:48.326 --> 23:49.428 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% some legal trouble. 23:49.528 --> 23:51.062 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I though it was the weirdest message to send 23:51.163 --> 23:53.165 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% when you have republican governors, 23:53.265 --> 23:54.499 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% republican members around the country 23:54.599 --> 23:56.168 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% who are well admired, 23:56.268 --> 23:58.370 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% you have Mitt Romney who's running for the Senate, 23:58.470 --> 24:00.138 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% who a lot of people know and like who are republicans. 24:00.238 --> 24:01.606 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% To pick Corey Lewanowski 24:01.706 --> 24:04.042 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% as a keynote speaker at the State Republic Party Convention, 24:04.142 --> 24:05.977 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% to me, is a complete head scratcher. 24:06.077 --> 24:07.712 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% - Alright, I thought it was Lewandowski. 24:07.813 --> 24:09.114 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% - [Chris] Lewandowski, right. - Lewandowski, alright. 24:09.214 --> 24:10.782 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Howard Lee, tell us something we don't know. 24:10.882 --> 24:12.984 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Well I wanna take a little bit different turn 24:13.084 --> 24:14.453 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and remember a friend of mine 24:14.553 --> 24:15.987 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% by the name of John Ely, 24:16.087 --> 24:18.490 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% some people may know that he passed away this week. 24:18.590 --> 24:20.225 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% But the reason I wanna highlight him is 24:20.325 --> 24:24.496 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% he left a legacy that is gonna serve North Carolina well. 24:24.596 --> 24:26.198 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% The creation of the North Carolina Fund 24:26.298 --> 24:28.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and the North Carolina School of the Arts, 24:28.233 --> 24:30.302 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% both of which have become national models. 24:30.402 --> 24:31.136 align:left position:42.5%,start line:89% size:47.5% - Wow. 24:31.236 --> 24:32.070 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Alright, Bob Orr. 24:32.170 --> 24:33.305 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Tell us something we don't know. 24:33.405 --> 24:34.706 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - President Trump just fired the head 24:34.806 --> 24:36.308 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of the Veterans Administration. 24:36.408 --> 24:37.742 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% He's going to appoint his 24:37.843 --> 24:40.612 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% personal physician to that position. 24:40.712 --> 24:42.314 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% A friend of mine who's a retired military, 24:42.414 --> 24:44.916 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% he spent a lot of time both in the military 24:45.016 --> 24:48.053 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and post military working with the VA 24:48.153 --> 24:50.822 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% says it may well be the system is 24:50.922 --> 24:54.059 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% fundamentally broken and needs to just be... 24:54.159 --> 24:56.628 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - Maybe we need a restart for that. 24:56.728 --> 24:58.196 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% We got 30 seconds, Becki Gray, 24:58.296 --> 24:59.464 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% tell us something we don't know. 24:59.564 --> 25:00.632 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% - Tom, we've talked a lot about on this show 25:00.732 --> 25:02.133 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% of the urban rural divide 25:02.234 --> 25:03.635 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% and how to bridge that. 25:03.735 --> 25:05.504 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% In North Carolina, 31 counties 25:05.604 --> 25:07.839 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% do not have an OBGYN doctor. 25:07.939 --> 25:10.642 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% One way to get that care into those counties 25:10.742 --> 25:13.678 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% may be to loosen the regulations on midwives 25:13.778 --> 25:16.314 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and let them practice in some of those 31 counties 25:16.414 --> 25:17.849 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and bring prenatal and maternity care... 25:17.949 --> 25:19.184 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% - We're gonna do a show on... 25:19.284 --> 25:21.052 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - [Becki] To many of our patients. 25:21.152 --> 25:23.455 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - Patrick Woody at a forum recently, 25:23.555 --> 25:24.990 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% very articulate. 25:25.090 --> 25:26.625 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Well you've heard our spin on the issues of the day. 25:26.725 --> 25:28.493 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% To stay informed all during the week, 25:28.593 --> 25:30.929 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% give your feedback and read my weekly column, 25:31.029 --> 25:32.697 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% be sure to visit our website, 25:32.797 --> 25:36.001 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% ncspin.com or catch NC Spin on Facebook. 25:36.101 --> 25:37.636 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% And be sure to join us next week 25:37.736 --> 25:39.170 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% when we'll have more balanced debate 25:39.271 --> 25:40.171 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% for the Old North State. 25:40.272 --> 25:42.107 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% Until then, stay informed, 25:42.207 --> 25:43.909 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5% and watch out for the spin. 25:44.009 --> 25:46.611 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5% [upbeat music] 25:53.451 --> 25:55.854 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - [Narrator] Life's busy, but you're in control. 25:55.954 --> 25:58.089 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% As an electric cooperative member, 25:58.189 --> 25:59.858 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% you have access to lots of tools 25:59.958 --> 26:02.327 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to help manage your home energy use and budget 26:02.427 --> 26:05.330 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% so you can focus on what's most important. 26:07.599 --> 26:09.734 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% - Quality of life enjoyed by North Carolinians 26:09.834 --> 26:11.736 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% comes from the sacrifice of our state 26:11.836 --> 26:13.338 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% and local government retirees. 26:13.438 --> 26:15.574 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% These men and women risked their lives 26:15.674 --> 26:16.608 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% in times of danger, 26:16.708 --> 26:18.043 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% they taught our children, 26:18.143 --> 26:20.011 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% kept our neighborhoods clean, 26:20.111 --> 26:21.980 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and protected the state's resources. 26:22.080 --> 26:25.183 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They are North Carolina's silent heroes. 26:25.283 --> 26:27.218 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% The North Carolina Retired Governmental 26:27.319 --> 26:28.219 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% Employees Association 26:28.320 --> 26:30.722 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% proudly serves as the voice 26:30.822 --> 26:34.326 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% for more than 300,000 retirees across North Carolina. 26:34.426 --> 26:35.727 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% Our retirees deserve no less, 26:35.827 --> 26:37.829 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% and every day, we stand by them. 26:39.931 --> 26:41.099 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% - [Announcer] North Carolina Channel 26:41.199 --> 26:43.335 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% is made possible by the financial contributions 26:43.435 --> 26:44.536 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% of viewers like you 26:44.636 --> 26:46.905 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% who support the UNC-TV network.