[UPBEAT MUSIC]
- [ANNOUNCER] THIS IS NC SPIN,
AN UNREHEARSED DISCUSSION
ON ISSUES OF INTEREST
TO NORTH CAROLINIANS.
NOW, HERE IS YOUR
MODERATOR, TOM CAMPBELL.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING
THIS WEEK'S NC SPIN.
THERE IS MUCH TO TALK
ABOUT THIS WEEK INCLUDING
A DISTURBING DOWNWARD
TREND IN FIGHTING COVID-19.
WE TALK ABOUT THAT
PLUS ORDERS TO CLOSE A SPEEDWAY.
WE WILL LOOK AT SEVERAL
PROPOSALS IN RESPONSE TO
RACIAL VIOLENCE AND ASK
HOW THINGS MIGHT CHANGE
AND WE LOOK AT NEW
GUIDELINES FOR SENDING OUR
CHILDREN BACK TO SCHOOL
AND WANT TO KNOW
IF THEY CAN BE SAFE.
PLUS OUR PANEL WILL TELL
US SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.
JOINING OUR PANEL
THIS WEEK ARE:
CHRIS FITZSIMON,
DIRECTOR, OF THE STATES NEWSROOM
ANNA BEAVON GRAVELY,
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NC FREE
HOWARD LEE, FORMER STATE SENATOR
AND FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE STATE
BOARD OF EDUCATION
AND JOHN HOOD, SYNDICATED
COLUMNIST AND AUTHOR.
WE WILL BEGIN OUR
UNINTERRUPTED DISCUSSION
AFTER THESE BRIEF MESSAGES
FROM OUR UNDERWRITERS.
IN MORE THAN 21
YEARS ON NC SPIN,
I NEVER ENDORSED A
PRODUCT OR SPONSORED
BUT I VOLUNTEERED TO DO THIS
MESSAGE FOR FAMILY PHYSICIANS.
OVER THE PAST 40 YEARS,
MY FAMILY DOCTOR COULD
QUICKLY DIAGNOSE MY ILLNESSES
BECAUSE HE KNEW MY
MEDICAL HISTORY.
EVIDENCE SUGGESTS
I'LL LIVE LONGER,
HAVE A HIGHER QUALITY OF LIFE
AND SAVE 33% ON
HEALTH CARE COSTS.
I BELIEVE IN MY
TRUSTED RELATIONSHIP
WITH MY FAMILY PHYSICIAN.
- [ANNOUNCER] FAMILY PHYSICIANS,
YOUR TRUSTED HEALTH
CARE ADVISOR FOR LIFE.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
- [ANNOUNCER] LIFE'S BUSY,
BUT YOU'RE IN CONTROL.
AS AN ELECTRIC
COOPERATIVE MEMBER,
YOU HAVE ACCESS TO LOTS OF TOOLS
TO HELP MANAGE YOUR HOME
ENERGY USE AND BUDGET
SO YOU CAN FOCUS ON
WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT.
>> BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE
WANT TO WELCOME NICK FUCHS
BACK TO THE PRODUCER'S
CHAIR OF OUR SHOW.
WE'VE MISSED HIM.
LET'S GET BEGIN THE SPIN.
ON MAY 22ND NORTH CAROLINA
ENTERED INTO PHASE TWO OF
REOPENING. IT WOULD TAKE
ABOUT 14 DAYS TO SEE THE
EFFECTS OF THESE
SMALL STEPS.
OVER THE LAST WEEK WE
SAW THOSE EFFECTS...
A SURGE IN NUMBERS OF
CASES, INCREASE IN THE
PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE
TESTING POSITIVE AND A BIG
JUMP IN THE NUMBER OF
HOSPITALIZATIONS DUE TO
COVID-19.
HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
SECRETARY MANDY COHEN SAID
OUR TRENDS WERE GOING IN
THE WRONG DIRECTION AND WE
NEEDED TO CONTINUE TO WORK
TO KEEP FROM OVERWHELMING
OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
ANNA BEAVON, ONE OF THE BIG
STORIES THIS WEEK WAS
THAT THE ACE SPEEDWAY IN
ALAMANCE COUNTY HAD
A SECOND INSTANCE OF
DISOBEYING EXECUTIVE
ORDERS AND HAD 2,000 FANS
AT A RACE LAST
SATURDAY NIGHT.
GOVERNOR COOPER SAID LOCAL
AUTHORITIES WOULDN'T
ENFORCE THE PHASE TWO
ORDER AND HE DECLARED THE
SPEEDWAY AN IMMINENT
DANGER AND ORDERED IT CLOSED.
THE SPEEDWAY SAYS
IT WON'T COMPLY.
THE STATE HAS
FILED FOR A TRO.
THE JUDGE GRANTED IT, YOUR
REACTION TO ALL OF THIS?
>> WELL THE BIG TAKE AWAY FROM
ME IS THAT THE PEOPLE OF NORTH
CAROLINA ARE JUST TIRED. THEY
ARE TIRED OF BEING TOLD TO SIT
AND WAIT AND BE PATIENT, SIT AND
WAIT AND BE PATIENT. AS
BUSINESSES CONTINUE TO GO UNDER
AND UNEMPLOYMENT CLIMBS AND IT
SORT OF JUST FEELS LIKE WE'RE
PLAYING THE ROLE OF THE
STEREOTYPICAL RESTRICTED HIGH
SCHOOLER THAT THE MOMENT THEY
GET TO COLLEGE,
THEY GO WILD WITH EXCITEMENT
AND THE FREEDOM THAT EXISTS.
AND IT TURNS OUT THAT IF THE
GOVERNOR AND HIS
ADMINISTRATION CONTINUES TO
TELL US TO SIT AND WAIT AND BE
PATIENT, WE'RE GOING TO SEE
MORE OF THIS.
>> LIKE THE FELLOW SAID LORD
GIVE ME PATIENCE AND I WANT IT
RIGHT NOW. HOWARD THE SPEEDWAY
OWNER SAID THAT COOPER'S
EXECUTIVE ORDER WAS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL. JUDGE TOM
LAMBETH JR. DIDN'T APPEAR TO
ADDRESS THAT CHARGE, BUT HE DID
ISSUE THE RESTRAINING ORDER AND
SAY HE WOULD TAKE THIS ISSUE
BACK UP JUNE 19TH.
THIS COULD BE A PRETTY
IMPORTANT HEARING, COULDN'T IT?
ISN'T GOING TO FOCUS ON THE
CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE
GOVERNOR TO ISSUE ORDERS?
>> I THINK IT POSSIBLY COULD.
I DO THINK THE GOVERNOR IS
ON SOLID GROUND.
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT
SPEEDWAY IS WHAT I THOUGHT
SHOULD BE DONE ACROSS THE BOARD
ANYWAY, IS THE GOVERNOR AND
HIS STAFF SET STANDARDS, EXPECT
PEOPLE TO LIVE UP TO THOSE
STANDARDS AND THEN LET THEM
MAKE THE DECISION WITHIN THAT
GUIDELINE AND IF THEY DON'T,
COME DOWN HARD ON THEM.
SO IN THE CASE OF THE SPEEDWAY
THIS IS EXACTLY
WHAT HAPPENED AND I THINK THE
GOVERNOR'S ON SOLID GROUND.
BUT CERTAINLY THINK THAT
HEARING IS GOING TO BE AN
IMPORTANT DECISION FOR
SETTING THE STAGE FOR OUR FUTURE
AND HOW GOVERNMENTS CAN BEHAVE.
>> JOHN THE OWNERS OF THE
SPEEDWAY SAID THEY WERE BEING
SINGLED OUT.
IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE AND
THAT OTHER PEOPLE WERE
CONDUCTING RACES AND BIG EVENTS
AND SO FORTH LIKE THAT.
IS THIS EVIDENCE WE'RE SEEING
ALAMANCE COUNTY WITH A BIG
SPIKE IN THE NUMBER OF CASES,
THE NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS
REQUIRED, IS THIS EVIDENCE FROM
THE RACE AND THEY HELD 2 WEEKS
AGO, IS THIS GOING TO
YIELD BIG SPIKES AGAIN?
>> I DOUBT IT BECAUSE IT DIDN'T
DO IT THE FIRST TIME. THE SPIKES
DO NOT APPEAR TO BE RELATED TO
THE RACING OF ALAMANCE
COUNTY. I THINK THAT
THE BEST ARGUMENT THE RACETRACK
FOLKS HAVE IS THE SELECTIVE
ENFORCEMENT ARGUMENT, THAT THEY
WERE TARGETED OTHER RACETRACKS
INCLUDING THE NASCAR RACE,
THE NASCAR RACE DID NOT HAVE A
LARGE AUDIENCE, IT STILL HAD
HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TOGETHER
IN AN OUTDOOR VENUE WHICH IS
LIKE APPARENT VIOLATION OF THE
GOVERNOR'S ORDER. AND YET IT
WAS DONE IN CONJUNCTION
IN NEGOTIATION WITH THE
ADMINISTRATION. I THINK THAT IS
THE VULNERABILITY PROBABLY NOT
THE CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENT AT
THIS MOMENT, BUT IT'S A
SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT ARGUMENT
THAT IF ANYTHING WERE TO
PREVAIL IT WOULD BE THAT ONE.
>> FOLLOWING UP ON THAT CHRIS
DOES THAT MEAN WE'RE GOING TO
SEE THE SAME KIND OF ORDERS
BEING ISSUED OTHER SPEEDWAYS
AND OTHER VENUES. PEOPLE
DISOBEYING THE EXECUTIVE
ORDERS.
>> WELL, I GUESS THAT WE'RE
GOING TO SEE I THINK PART OF
THE CHALLENGE HERE AS A BED AND
SAID ARE EXAMPLES LIKE THE
PEOPLE ON SPRING WHAT PEOPLE
GET GOING TO THE UNIVERSITY OR
PEOPLE GOING TO COLLEGE AND
WANTED TO BE FREE AND ALL THAT
THE ONLY PROBLEM IS WE'RE
DEALING WITH A DEADLY
INFECTIOUS DISEASE. WE HAVE
RECORD NUMBERS OF
HOSPITALIZATIONS FOR SEVERAL
DAYS IN A ROW, AND WHAT'S SO
STUNNING TO ME AND WHILE THAT'S
ALL GOING ON WE'RE DEBATING ALL
THIS SOME OF THE SAME PEOPLE
WHO DEMAND THAT WE HAVE NO
RESTRICTIONS OR DEMAND THAT WE
OPEN, REFUSED TO WEAR MASKS TO
PROTECT OTHER PEOPLE WHICH IS
THE SINGLE NOW MOST IMPORTANT
THING WE CAN DO. THIS IS EVEN
SPREAD PRIMARILY THROUGH
PERSONAL CONTACTS. YOU PROTECT
OTHER PEOPLE BY WEARING MASKS WE
HAVE LEADERS AND ADVOCATES WHO
ARE THING WE NEED TO OPEN
BUSINESSES THE MOST IMPORTANT
THING WILL IF WE'RE GOING TO DO
IT FOR GOODNESS SAKES WHY CAN'T
WE DO IT SAFELY? I'M STILL
PERPLEXED THAT WE SEE
PICTURES AND IMAGES ALL OVER
THE PLACE OF PEOPLE BESIDE EACH
OTHER THEY THINK SOMEHOW IT'S
NOT MANLY TO WEAR A MASK TO
PROTECT YOUR NEIGHBOR.
>> ANNA BEAVON THIS WAS NOT THE
ONLY RESTRAINING ORDER THAT WAS
SOUGHT THIS PAST WEEK, SEVERAL
OWNERS OF GYMS TRIED TO GET A
RESTRAINING ORDER TO KEEP UP A
GOVERNOR COOPER FROM REFUSING
TO LET THEM OPEN. AND THE JUDGE
WOULD NOT GRANT THAT
RESTRAINING ORDER IN THE
MEANTIME THE LEGISLATURE
PASSED A BILL WHICH SAID GYMS
AND BARS COULD OPEN. IT'S
SITTING ON GOVERNOR COOPER'S
DESK. THEY DIDN'T WRITE OR TO
OVERRIDE THE VETO. THE FIRST
TIME AROUND WHEN GOVERNOR
COOPER VETOED IT ARE THEY GOING
TO OVERRIDE THIS BILL FROM HIS
THE DETAILER GOING TO TEMPT
OVERRIDE IT.
>> I THINK THEY'RE DEFINITELY
GOING TO
ATTEMPT TO OVERRIDE THIS ONE,
I THINK THE FIRST ONE WAS
A CHANCE FOR THE GOVERNOR TO
PLAY NICE WITH THE GENERAL
ASSEMBLY OR THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
TO PLAY NICE WITH THE GOVERNOR.
WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING MORE
OF NORTH CAROLINA BACK TO WORK.
BUT I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE
ONE OF THOSE TIMES WHERE THE
GENERAL ASSEMBLY US GOING
MAKE THIS A REALITY.
>> HOWARD YOU SAT IN THAT
CHAMBER FOR MANY YEARS. CAN THEY
GET THE 3/5THS VOTE THAT THEY
NEED TO OVERRIDE THE VETO IN
BOTH HOUSES?
>> I DON'T THINK SO AND I'M NOT
SURE THAT IT WILL BE A SMART
THING TO DO. YOU CAN QUESTION
THE SYSTEM THE GOVERNOR IS
USING IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING
THESE DECISIONS. BUT AT THE
SAME TIME AS CHRIS SAID THIS IS
A VERY DEADLY DISEASE. AND I'M
JUST DISAPPOINTED THAT MANY OF
THE INFLUENTIAL LEADERS DON'T
THEMSELVES EVEN WEAR THE MASK
TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. SO WHEN
I LOOK AT THE LEGISLATIVE
CHAMBER, I CERTAINLY THINK THAT
THEY'RE GOING TO BE A CLOSE
CALL. IF I WAS SITTING THERE I
WOULD NOT VOTE TO OVERRIDE. I
THINK IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAT
PEOPLE'S HEALTH THAN
IT IS TO TRY
AND OVERRIDE A VETO
AT THIS POINT.
>> BUT THEY HAD SOME DEMOCRATS
VOTES IN PASSING THIS
INITIATION TO BEGIN WITH
DIDN'T THEY JOHN?
>> THEY DID. IN FACT I THINK THE
I WOULD BE OVER IN THE SENATE
JUST A QUESTION OF WHETHER WILL
BE OVERRIDDEN IN THE HOUSE.
I THINK IT'S AT LEAST
CONCEIVABLE THAT
IT COULD BE OVERRIDDEN.
THIS REVISED LEGISLATION ALLOWS
THE GOVERNOR TO REENACT
THIS TIME I HOPE ACTUALLY THE
LAW WOULD MAKE IT CLEARER THAT
HE WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THE
ORIGINAL STATUTE WHICH INVOLVES
COUNCIL STATE APPROVAL.
BUT I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE
HERE IS PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT
LEVELS OF RISK PREFERENCE, THEY
HAVE DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS
OF THE DATA, THE RIGHT
OF POSITIVE TESTS HAS
BEEN ABOUT BUT IT'S BOUNCING
AROUND TO 18% SINCE THE
REOPENING AND IN MAY 22ND.
AND THE EVIDENCE OF THE
HOSPITALIZATIONS IS ACTUALLY
RATHER MONEY
BECAUSE WE ARE IN FACT HAVING
MORE PEOPLE GOING TO THE
HOSPITALS TO HAVE OTHER
CONDITIONS ADDRESSED AND
SURGERIES THAT WERE DEFERRED
HAVE OTHER THINGS AND YES,
THEY'RE ALL BEING TESTED SO
WE'RE INTERESTED IN IS HOW MANY
PEOPLE WERE HOSPITALIZED
BECAUSE THEY HAD COVID GIVEN
THE FACT THAT THE OTHER METRIC
THAT THE STATE HAS BEEN
TRACKING WHICH IS THE SHERIFF
EMERGENCY ROOM ADMISSIONS HAVE
TO HAVE COVID HAS NOT BEEN
GOING UP THAT SUGGESTS THAT THE
STATE ARE MORE COMPLICATED.
THEY THEY REQUIRE MORE
CAREFUL CONSIDERATION. BUT
FRANKLY, EITHER SIDE IS
CURRENTLY THE POLITICAL THE
POLITICIZATION OF THIS MOMENT I
THINK IS MISTAKEN.
>> WELL IT IS HIGHLY POLITICIZED
IS NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
CHRIS THE LEGISLATURE
PASSED BILL AND PUT IT ON THE
SENATE TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.
THAT WOULD REQUIRE HOSPITALS TO
ALLOW AT LEAST ONE FAMILY
MEMBER TO VISIT PEOPLE WHO ARE
HOSPITALIZED. THE RULING OF
COURSE HAD BEEN WITH NURSING
HOMES AND WITH OTHER. THE
CONGREGATE CARE KINDS OF
FACILITIES THEY WOULDN'T ALLOW
PEOPLE TO COME IN AND VISIT
IS COOPER GOING TO
VETO THIS BILL?
>> I'M NOT SURE BUT I
CONTINUE TO BE SURPRISED THAT
PEOPLE IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
BELIEVE THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT
HOSPITAL ADMISSION POLICY,
INFECTION RATES AND DISEASE THAN
THE PEOPLE WHO RUN HOSPITALS AND
THE PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSIONALS,
AND I THINK, I SAY THIS
EVERY WEEK, THE ELEPHANT IN
THE ROOM HERE, IS WHEN THE LAST
TIME WE HEARD FROM DOCTOR FAUCI
THE CDC, NATIONAL MESSAGING,
WE ARE LITERALLY LEADER-LESS
IN THIS COUNTRY. AND SO WE'RE
TURNING TO GOVERNORS.
ARIZONA'S HOSPITALIZATION
RATE IS GOING
THROUGH THE ROOF, THE VIRUS
IS MOVING INTO THE SOUTH AND
THE WEST, THE DATA IS PRETTY
CLEAR ABOUT THAT. AND YET WE'RE
ALL WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT BARS
AND RESTAURANTS WHICH I
APPRECIATE THAT THEY'RE
STRUGGLING. I HOPE THAT THEY
GOT RELIEF FROM THE LOAN
PROGRAM, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW THE
DETAILS OF WHO RELEASED THAT.
WE'RE LIVING IN A VACUUMLESS,
A LEADER-LESS TIME AND
WERE ALL FLAILING ABOUT WHILE WE
HAVE AN INFECTIOUS DISEASE ON
THE RISE. IT'S FRANKLY STUNNING.
>> AND AND ON TOP OF ALL OF
THAT IS THE CONTROVERSY
SURROUNDING THE GOP CONVENTION.
THEY ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT
THE CONVENTION - THE BIG RALLY
FOR THE CONVENTION WOULD BE
HELD IN FLORIDA. AFTER THE DUST
HAS SETTLED A LITTLE BIT HERE,
WE'VE GOT A 1000 NEW CASES
EVERY DAY, WE'VE GOT RECORD
NUMBERS OF PEOPLE IN HOSPITALS
DUE TO COVID-19 ACCORDING TO
SECRETARY COHEN AND SO THE
QUESTION IS REGARDING THIS GOP
CONVENTION WHO WON
TRUMP OR COOPER?
I'M GOING TO ASK EVERYBODY.
JOHN?
>> COOPER GOT WHAT HE WANTED HE
DIDN'T WANT THE CONVENTION SO
AGAIN HE GOT WHAT HE WANTED. HE
GOT THAT. I THINK THAT IN THE
LONG RUN IT WILL HURT HIM HE'S
BASICALLY SAYING RALLY IF I
AGREE WITH YOU THAT'S OK.
RALLY AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
TOGETHER RALLY THAT'S OKAY.
BUT IF I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU
CAN'T HAVE A RALLY. REMEMBER
THIS IS - THIS LARGE EVENT
THAT'S GOING TO BE HELD WILL
PROBABLY BE OUTSIDE IN
JACKSONVILLE FLORIDA.
I THINK THAT I COULD'VE
WORKED THAT OUT.
>> THEY'RE ACTUALLY TALKING
ABOUT DOING INSIDE IN AN ARENA.
>> [JOHN] EVEN THEN --
TRUMP IS HAVING A RALLY IN
TULSA FRIDAY NIGHT WITH 19,000
PEOPLE IN AN ARENA, HE'S ASKED
THEM TO SIGN SOMETHING SAYING --
>> [TOM] THEY GOTTA SIGN A
WAIVER!
>> THEY HAVE TO SIGN A WAIVER
THAT'S WHAT COOPER DOESN'T WANT
IN NORTH CAROLINA IS 19,000
PEOPLE INSIDE THE BUILDING
AND THEN GOING AROUND TO THE
REST OF THE STATE.
>> THEY SHOULD'VE WORKED IT
OUT TO DO THIS BIG CORONATION
EVENT OUTSIDE, THAT'S
MY OPINION.
>> AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WAS
NEGOTIATING
WITH THE RNC AND TRUMP
INTERVENED WITH
A TWEET BLAMING GOVERNOR COOPER.
COOPER AND PUBLIC HEALTH WON
THAT'S WHO WON.
>> ALL RIGHT SO. COOPER, WON
CHRIS.
HOWARD WHO WON?
>> I THINK WE
WON AS NORTH CAROLINIANS
BECAUSE WE DON'T
HAVE 19,000 PEOPLE SHOULDER TO
SHOULDER IN AN ARENA
IN A PANDEMIC.
>> ALL RIGHT HOWARD
TRUMP OR COOPER?
>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THE PEOPLE
OF NORTH CAROLINA WON BECAUSE
I'VE BEEN VERY NERVOUS ABOUT
THIS CONVENTION AND THAT NUMBER
OF PEOPLE BEING HELD IN AN
ARENA, AND I THINK THE CHANCES
OF SPREADING THE DISEASE IN
THIS STATE, IT'S GETTING MORE
AND MORE POSSIBLE ALL ALONG.
I JUST DISAGREE WITH
THINKING THAT WE CAN HOLD THE
CONVENTION AND THAT'S MORE
IMPORTANT THAN PROTECTING
PEOPLE'S HEALTH.
SO I GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE IN
NORTH CAROLINA
AND PARTIALLY TO COOPER.
>> ANNA BEAVON WHO WON?
>> I THINK THEY'RE BOTH GOING TO
CLAIM VICTORY HERE.
THEY'RE STILL
DISCUSSION OF HAVING THE
BUSINESS SESSION IN CHARLOTTE.
SO SOME OF THESE CONTRACTS WILL
STILL HOLD. BUT TRUMP HIMSELF
WILL NOT BE HERE SO HE WILL
CLAIM VICTORY.
>> BUT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL
CONVENTION COMMITTEE HAS
LIMITED EVERY STATE TO HAVING 6
DELEGATES. SO
EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY BE
HONORING THE LETTER OF THE LAW
ON SOME OF THESE CONTRACTS.
CHARLOTTE'S NOT GOING TO SEE
SUCH A BIG ECONOMIC
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
THEY LOST IN THIS WHOLE STORY.
>> LET'S SWITCH GEARS A LITTLE
BIT. MOST EVERYBODY IN NORTH
CAROLINA AGREES NORTH
CAROLINA'S 1.6 MILLION K TO 12
GRADE SCHOOL CHILDREN NEED TO
RETURN TO CLASS. NOW THE BIG
QUESTION IS HOW TO DO IT
SAFELY. THIS WEEK WE'VE GOT
SOME GUIDELINES AS TO HOW THAT
MIGHT HAPPEN. THE DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, THE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTION, THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION OF ISSUED WHAT THEY
CALLED LIGHTING THE WAY FORWARD.
THIS PLAN HAS 3 PHASES RANGING
FROM MINIMAL SOCIAL DISTANCING
MODERATE SOCIAL DISTANCING AND
A RETURN TO ONLINE INSTRUCTION.
THE DECISION AS TO WHICH PHASE
IS SELECTED WILL DEPEND ON HOW
NORTH CAROLINA'S MANAGING
COVID-19. HOWARD LEE YOU WERE
CHAIRMAN OF OUR STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION AND YOU CONTINUE TO
WORK WITH SCHOOL CHILDREN
ACROSS OUR STATE. SECRETARY
COHEN SAYS WHILE YOUNG CHILDREN
CAN CERTAINLY BE INFECTED,
THEY DON'T SEEM AS SUSCEPTIBLE
AS OLDER PEOPLE. AND WE WANT TO
TALK ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF
THIS PLAN, BUT I WANT TO HEAR
YOUR REACTION TO THE LIGHT THE
WAY FORWARD PLAN.
>> WELL, I LOVE THE SLOGANS THAT
PEOPLE THROW OUT THESE DAYS.
I THINK THE GUIDELINES ARE
FAIRLY CLEAR AND CERTAINLY GIVE
AN INDICATION OF WHAT POSSIBLE
DIRECTIONS WE CAN GO.
I LIKE THE THOUGHT THAT THEY
WILL LISTEN TO THE GOVERNOR
BY JULY 1, TO DETERMINE
IF THE CONDITIONS ARE SUCH THAT
THEY CAN PROCEED FORWARD.
I DO SEE SOME REAL POSITIVES IN
THE GUIDELINES WOULD
THINK THAT KIDS CAN BE MANAGED
SAFELY IN THE CLASSROOM AND I'M
DELIGHTED THAT WE'RE MOVING IN
THAT DIRECTION, BUT WE'VE GOT TO
BE VERY CAREFUL BECAUSE IN
SPITE OF THAT WE STILL HAVE ONE
CHILD A AND OTHERS
COULD CONTRACT THE DISEASE AND
WE CAN HAVE OTHER DEATHS
BY PUTTING THEM ALL TOGETHER.
>> ALL RIGHT SO THE BASICS OF
THE PLAN IS MINIMAL SOCIAL
DISTANCING, WHICH MEANS
ESSENTIALLY,
KIDS GO BACK TO SCHOOL THE
WAY THEY WERE
BEFORE THE
PANDEMIC HIT. THE MODERATE OR
PLAN B IS A MODERATE SOCIAL
DISTANCING WHICH WOULD REQUIRE
SOME SEPARATIONS 6 FEET
SEPARATIONS AND VARIOUS THINGS
LIKE THAT. AND THEN THE 3RD
OPTION IS WE JUST GO BACK TO
ONLINE LEARNING, WHICH I THINK
IS THE LEAST PALATABLE FOR
EVERYBODY.
GOVERNOR COOPER GETS TO MAKE
THAT DECISION AND HE SUPPOSED
TO MAKE IT BY JULY 1ST THAT'S 2
WEEKS FROM NOW JOHN. WHAT ARE WE
GOING TO KNOW THEN THAT
WE DON'T KNOW NOW?
>> I'M NOT SURE THAT PEOPLE
WILL HAVE CHANGED THEIR VIEWS
ONE WAY THE OTHER VERY MUCH ON
THIS. TOM, I THINK YOU'RE
BEING CHARITABLE VERY
CHAIRITABLE. PLAN A
IS NOT MINIMAL, WHATEVER
TERM THEY WANT TO DESCRIBE IT
HAS LOTS OF REQUIREMENTS
IN IT, I THINK IT IS LIKELY TO
BE IMPRACTICAL JUST PLAN A. PLAN
B INVOLVES PROBABLY ALTERNATING
BETWEEN DAY SO STUDENTS WOULD
GO TO SCHOOL ON MONDAY
AND NOT ON TUESDAY.
I THINK THEY WILL ALSO
FIND THAT IN PRACTICAL
I UNDERSTAND THAT THE
MOTIVATION,
THIS IS AS HOWARD
SAID IT'S A CHALLENGING TOPIC.
BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE
TO BE VERY REALISTIC ABOUT WHAT
IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN A SCHOOL
SOMETIMES IN SOME PARTS OF THE
STATE OVER ALREADY IN AN
OVERCROWDED SCHOOL
WITH LOTS OF KIDS COMING IN WHO
ARE NOT KNOWN FOR FOLLOWING,
YOU KNOW, SECOND GRADERS ARE
NOT KNOWN FOR FOLLOWING
INSTRUCTIONS EASILY.
WE HAVE TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT
WHAT IS REALISTIC HERE. IT IS
ALSO NOT REALISTIC TO HAVE
SEMESTER AT HOME AGAIN. I THINK
YOU'LL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT
REBELLION AGAINST THAT.
>> I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT
THAT. ANNA BEAVON, YOU COME
FROM A FAMILY OF EDUCATORS
THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE
SUGGESTING WAIT A MINUTE THIS
SHOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE A
STATEWIDE DECISION ON HOW WE'RE
GOING TO DO THIS. WE OUGHT TO
TURN THIS OVER TO THE LEA'S
LOCAL EDUCATION AUTHORITIES IN
EACH COUNTY TO LET THEM DECIDE
ON A PLAN A, PLAN B, PLAN C.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT.
>> I DEFINITELY THINK THAT'S
THE BEST WAY TO GO. NOT EVERY
PART OF THE STATE HAS BEEN
IMPACTED THE SAME WAY BY COVID
AND GIVING SCHOOLS THE
OPPORTUNITIES TO BE ABLE TO
TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WORKS BEST
FOR THEN WE'LL REALLY ENSURE
THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF SUCCESS.
THE PART THAT WAS INTERESTING
TO ME ABOUT THE PLAN IS THAT, OR
THE PROPOSAL IS THAT PLAN B
WAS THE ONE THAT HAD THE MOST
ENERGY PUT INTO THE SOLUTIONS
THAT HAVE THE GREATEST
RANGE OF ALTERNATIVES
WHERE I REALLY THINK THAT
DISTANCE-LEARNING OR ONLINE
LEARNING IS GOING TO BE WAY
MORE IMPACTFUL MOVING FORWARD
AND THERE REALLY JUST DIDN'T
SEEM TO BE A LOT OF SOLUTIONS
TO FIX THAT.
>> THAT IS THE LEAST PALATABLE
OF ALL THE
SOLUTIONS TO EVERYBODY I THINK.
>> [ANNA] OH FOR SURE. YES.
WE WANT TO GET OUR KIDS
BACK IN CLASSROOMS.
CHRIS ARE A LOT OF
PARENTS ARE SAYING
YOU KNOW WE'RE GOING TO
SIT AND WATCH THIS.
THEY ARE UPSET
BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT REQUIRED
STUDENTS AND TEACHERS AND
PERSONNEL WERE NOT REQUIRED TO
WEAR FACE COVERINGS AND THEY'RE
SAYING WE WANT TO WAIT AND SEE
HOW WE THINK THIS IS
GOING TO BE -- WHAT HAPPENS
IF A LARGE NUMBER OF PARENTS
JUST REFUSED TO SEND THEIR KIDS
BACK TO SCHOOL?
>> WELL I THINK THAT COULD
HAPPEN IN SOME AREAS, I THINK
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO BE SO
CAREFUL AND MAKE SURE THAT
PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE RISKS,
UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PLANS ARE, I
DO THINK IT'S GOING TO BE SOME
VERSION OF COMING AND GOING
BACK TO SCHOOL. I DON'T THINK
ANYBODY THINKS IT'S GOING TO BE
ONLINE ONLY UNLESS
THINGS GET MUCH WORSE
WHICH I HOPE THEY DON'T
BETWEEN NOW AND AUGUST.
THE HARD PART OF COURSE
IS THERE'S
NOT ONLY CHILDREN IN SCHOOL
THERE ARE STAFF MEMBERS.
THERE ARE
TEACHERS WHO ARE OVER THAN 60
YEARS OLD, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT
HAVE HEALTH MALADIES THAT
MAKE THEM MORE AT RISK, I'M A
LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT HOW WE
WE STAFF A SCHOOL SAFELY
DURING THIS PANDEMIC. IT'S NOT
SOMETHING WE CAN'T OVERCOME, BUT
I THINK THAT ONE OF THE PRIMARY
RISKS. THE PEOPLE AT RISK HERE
ARE THE ADULTS IN THE SCHOOL.
>> HOWARD, LET'S LOOK AT THIS
THING FROM A TODAY PERSPECTIVE.
IF THE GOVERNOR HAD TO MAKE THIS
DECISION TODAY,I THINK HE'D
HAVE A HARD TIME ADOPTING PLAN
A WHICH IS THE MINIMAL KIND OF
OPENING AND CERTAINLY NOBODY
WANTS TO GO TO PLAN C WHICH IS
GOING BACK TO ONLINE LEARNING.
THE QUESTION HERE IS IF WE HAVE
TO GO TO THE PLAN B WHICH
INCLUDES PERHAPS CHILDREN GOING
TO SCHOOL HALF A DAY IN STAYING
HOME HALF A DAY, YOU'RE GOING
ONE DAY IN STAYING HOME THE
OTHER THIS IS GOING TO PUT AN
INCREDIBLE HARDSHIP ON PARENTS
WHO HAVE TO WORK ISN'T IT?
>> IT WILL AND OF COURSE I
FIND PLAN B TO BE THE MOST
ACCEPTABLE. BUT YET THE MOST
DIFFICULT TO MANAGE, BUT IT HAS
BEEN DONE BEFORE WE HAVE HAD A
PRESSURE THAT HAD US GO TO
HALF DAY SCHOOLS WITH KIDS
COMING IN THE MORNING,
THEN ANOTHER GROUP COMING IN
THE AFTERNOON.
SO WE COULD MAKE IT WORK AND
CERTAINLY I THINK IT WOULD BE
THE SAFEST. BUT I'M ALSO
CONCERNED ABOUT THE BEING ABLE
TO TRANSPORT KIDS,
10 AND 20 KIDS ON THE BUS.
WHICH I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE
EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE.
>> WELL NOT ONLY THAT,
BUT THE LEGISLATURE
THIS PAST WEEK, G JOHN
PASSED A BILL IN WHICH THEY
ROBBED THE FUND FOR BUS
REPLACEMENTS AND REPAIRS
IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO HELP
SHORE UP BUDGET SOMEWHERE ELSE.
IS THIS GOING TO BE ANOTHER
BILL THAT GOVERNOR COOPER'S
GOING TO VETO?
>> THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.
IS VERY CLEAR THAT
THAT WE WILL NOT BE SPENDING ON
CAPITAL THE WAY PEOPLE
ANTICIPATED THAT INCLUDES
SCHOOL BUILDING BECAUSE WE HAD
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN UPCOMING
BUDGET DEFICITS AND EVEN
WITHOUT REPLACING SCHOOL BUSES
WHICH IS WHAT THAT FUND IS FOR
AS HOWARD SAYS PLAN A AND FACT
FORGET PLANT BEFORE SECOND
WHICH ACTUALLY DON'T THINK LAB
PLAN WOULD REQUIRE SOME
ADDITIONAL EXPENSE PERHAPS A
LOT OF ADDITIONAL EXPENSE.
>> AND ONE OF THOSE ADDITIONAL
EXPENSES
IS TEACHERS AND NURSES IN
EVERY SCHOOL FOR SCHOOLS THAT
ARE ALREADY COMPLAINING ABOUT
NOT HAVING FUNDING AND WITH
US WITH A TEACHER SHORTAGE
CHRIS, THIS COULD BE VERY
PROBLEMATIC, WITH A NUMBER OF
OUR TEACHERS ARE ALREADY,
YOU KNOW, REACHING SOME AGE IF
I CAN SAY THAT IS DELICATELY AS
POSSIBLE AND MIGHT NOT FEEL
SAFE GOING BACK INTO THE
CLASSROOM THIS YEAR. SO THIS
PRESENT SOME REAL PROBLEMS
DOESN'T IT?
>> IT DOES. THAT'S WHAT I WAS
GETTING AT WITH EARLIER WHICH
IS THAT THE STAFFING AND THE
SORT OF SENIOR TEACHERS
SENIOR IN AGE, TEACHERS AND
STAFF. I THINK WILL CERTAINLY
HAVE SOME CONCERNS. IT DOES
REMIND US THAT WE NEEDED TO BE
A LONG TIME AGO WE NEEDED TO
SPEND MORE ON SCHOOL NURSES AND
MAKE SURE THEY WERE THERE.
IT'S ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT NOW
DURING THIS PANDEMIC.
>> WELL THE JULY 4TH PERIOD
IS GOING TO BE VERY EXCITING
AROUND HERE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT
A LOT OF JUDICIAL DECISIONS.
THE GOVERNOR'S GOING TO HAVE TO
MAKE DECISIONS ON SCHOOLS
AND
WE CERTAINLY ARE GOING TO BE
TALKING ABOUT THEM AS TIME GOES
ON. THE ONE THING I THINK
EVERYBODY CAN AGREE ABOUT IS
THAT WE REALLY DO WANT TO GET
OUR KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL AND
RIGHT NOW WE REALLY DO WANT TO
GET THE PANEL TO TELL US
SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.
HOWARD LEE START US OFF TELL US
SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.
>> YOU KNOW WHEN I LOOK AT THE
THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT
NOW, TO ME IT'S KIND OF LIKE
LIVING ALONG DREADED NIGHTMARE.
JULY 19TH IS SOMETHING CALLED
JUNETEENTH
AND THAT'S THE DAY THE SLAVES
WERE FREED.
AND IT DISTURBS ME THAT TULSA,
OKLAHOMA CERTAINLY
ENDED UP BEING THE MASSACRE THAT
WE ALL GREW UP READING ABOUT.
AND FOR THE PRESIDENT TO GO AND
HOLD A RALLY ON THAT DAY IN
THAT COMMUNITY SIMPLY OPEN UP
A LOT OF OLD WOUNDS,
AND I THINK IT'S GOING
TO SPREAD IN A WAY THAT WON'T
BE DESIRABLE.
>> CHRIS FITZSIMON TELL US
SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.
>> ONE OF THE MOST
INTERESTING ISSUES I THINK IS
THAT THE MILITARY PLAYING A ROLE
IN WHAT'S HAPPENING.
IN OUR COUNTRY IN THE MOOD FOR
RACIAL JUSTICE, THE JOINT THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF
STAFF THIS WEEK APOLOGIZED,
FOR MARCHING TO THE CHURCH WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP. THE
MILITARY LEADERS ARE OPEN TO
RENAMING BASES THAT ARE
NAMED AFTER CONFEDERATE GENERALS
A REPUBLICAN COMMITTEE THIS
WEEK VOTED TO DO THAT WITHIN 3
YEARS. SENATOR TILLIS OBJECTED
SO HE DISAGREES WITH IT LOOKS
LIKE THE MILITARY AND A
REPUBLICAN COMMITTEE THAT'S
GOING TO BE A BIG ISSUE I THINK
IN THE CAMPAIGN.
>> GOT ABOUT A MINUTE 30 LEFT.
AB TELL US SOMETHING WE
DON'T KNOW.
>> SO THE MILLENNIAL GENERATION
HAS BEEN NAMED TO THE MOST
UNLUCKY GENERATION IN HISTORY.
YEAH, IT'S A BUMMER. BUT 59% OF
MILLENNIALS ARE ACTUALLY
WITHDRAWING FROM THEIR 401K
RETIREMENT PLANS EARLY.
AND ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS IS
BECAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL
RESTRAINT FROM COVID.
>> WOULD YOU KNOW ANYONE IN
THAT GENERATION?
>> I DO KNOW QUITE A FEW
>> JOHN TELL US SOMETHING WE
DON'T KNOW.
WE GOT ABOUT A MINUTE.
>> ALL RIGHT WELL NORTH
CAROLINA LAST ABOUT A LITTLE
OVER 50,000 JOBS AND IN MARCH
AND APRIL IN THE AREA OF HEALTH
CARE AND SOCIAL ASSISTANCE.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
NUMBERS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE
FOR MAY YET, WE'LL HAVE THOSE
ANOTHER WEEK OR SO, BUT IT IS
LIKELY THAT A LOT OF THOSE JOBS
WILL RETURN A LOT OF DENTAL
PRACTICES DOCTOR PRACTICES HAVE
BEEN ADDED BACK IN DAYCARES
WHICH IS ANOTHER AREA THAT HAS
LOST SOME EMPLOYMENT WILL HAVE
SOME RECOVERY SO THAT WOULD AT
LEAST I THINK WILL IMPROVE IN
MAY WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.
>> WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK
AT THOSE NUMBERS. WELL YOU'VE
HEARD OUR SPIN ON THE ISSUES
OF THE DAY.
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