[UPBEAT MUSIC]

- [ANNOUNCER] THIS IS NC SPIN,

AN UNREHEARSED DISCUSSION
ON ISSUES OF INTEREST

TO NORTH CAROLINIANS.

NOW, HERE IS YOUR
MODERATOR, TOM CAMPBELL.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING
THIS WEEK'S NC SPIN.

THERE IS MUCH TO TALK
ABOUT THIS WEEK INCLUDING

A DISTURBING DOWNWARD
TREND IN FIGHTING COVID-19.

WE TALK ABOUT THAT
PLUS ORDERS TO CLOSE A SPEEDWAY.

WE WILL LOOK AT SEVERAL
PROPOSALS IN RESPONSE TO

RACIAL VIOLENCE AND ASK
HOW THINGS MIGHT CHANGE

AND WE LOOK AT NEW
GUIDELINES FOR SENDING OUR

CHILDREN BACK TO SCHOOL
AND WANT TO KNOW

IF THEY CAN BE SAFE.

PLUS OUR PANEL WILL TELL
US SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.

JOINING OUR PANEL
THIS WEEK ARE:

CHRIS FITZSIMON,
DIRECTOR, OF THE STATES NEWSROOM

ANNA BEAVON GRAVELY,
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NC FREE

HOWARD LEE, FORMER STATE SENATOR

AND FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE STATE
BOARD OF EDUCATION

AND JOHN HOOD, SYNDICATED
COLUMNIST AND AUTHOR.

WE WILL BEGIN OUR
UNINTERRUPTED DISCUSSION

AFTER THESE BRIEF MESSAGES
FROM OUR UNDERWRITERS.

IN MORE THAN 21
YEARS ON NC SPIN,

I NEVER ENDORSED A
PRODUCT OR SPONSORED

BUT I VOLUNTEERED TO DO THIS
MESSAGE FOR FAMILY PHYSICIANS.

OVER THE PAST 40 YEARS,

MY FAMILY DOCTOR COULD
QUICKLY DIAGNOSE MY ILLNESSES

BECAUSE HE KNEW MY
MEDICAL HISTORY.

EVIDENCE SUGGESTS
I'LL LIVE LONGER,

HAVE A HIGHER QUALITY OF LIFE

AND SAVE 33% ON
HEALTH CARE COSTS.

I BELIEVE IN MY
TRUSTED RELATIONSHIP

WITH MY FAMILY PHYSICIAN.

- [ANNOUNCER] FAMILY PHYSICIANS,

YOUR TRUSTED HEALTH
CARE ADVISOR FOR LIFE.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

- [ANNOUNCER] LIFE'S BUSY,
BUT YOU'RE IN CONTROL.

AS AN ELECTRIC
COOPERATIVE MEMBER,

YOU HAVE ACCESS TO LOTS OF TOOLS

TO HELP MANAGE YOUR HOME
ENERGY USE AND BUDGET

SO YOU CAN FOCUS ON
WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT.

>> BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE
WANT TO WELCOME NICK FUCHS

BACK TO THE PRODUCER'S
CHAIR OF OUR SHOW.

WE'VE MISSED HIM.

LET'S GET BEGIN THE SPIN.

ON MAY 22ND NORTH CAROLINA
ENTERED INTO PHASE TWO OF

REOPENING. IT WOULD TAKE
ABOUT 14 DAYS TO SEE THE

EFFECTS OF THESE
SMALL STEPS.

OVER THE LAST WEEK WE
SAW THOSE EFFECTS...

A SURGE IN NUMBERS OF
CASES, INCREASE IN THE

PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE
TESTING POSITIVE AND A BIG

JUMP IN THE NUMBER OF
HOSPITALIZATIONS DUE TO

COVID-19.

HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
SECRETARY MANDY COHEN SAID

OUR TRENDS WERE GOING IN
THE WRONG DIRECTION AND WE

NEEDED TO CONTINUE TO WORK
TO KEEP FROM OVERWHELMING

OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

ANNA BEAVON, ONE OF THE BIG

STORIES THIS WEEK WAS
THAT THE ACE SPEEDWAY IN

ALAMANCE COUNTY HAD
A SECOND INSTANCE OF

DISOBEYING EXECUTIVE
ORDERS AND HAD 2,000 FANS

AT A RACE LAST
SATURDAY NIGHT.

GOVERNOR COOPER SAID LOCAL
AUTHORITIES WOULDN'T

ENFORCE THE PHASE TWO
ORDER AND HE DECLARED THE

SPEEDWAY AN IMMINENT
DANGER AND ORDERED IT CLOSED.

THE SPEEDWAY SAYS
IT WON'T COMPLY.

THE STATE HAS
FILED FOR A TRO.

THE JUDGE GRANTED IT, YOUR
REACTION TO ALL OF THIS?

>> WELL THE BIG TAKE AWAY FROM
ME IS THAT THE PEOPLE OF NORTH

CAROLINA ARE JUST TIRED. THEY
ARE TIRED OF BEING TOLD TO SIT

AND WAIT AND BE PATIENT, SIT AND
WAIT AND BE PATIENT. AS

BUSINESSES CONTINUE TO GO UNDER
AND UNEMPLOYMENT CLIMBS AND IT

SORT OF JUST FEELS LIKE WE'RE
PLAYING THE ROLE OF THE

STEREOTYPICAL RESTRICTED HIGH
SCHOOLER THAT THE MOMENT THEY

GET TO COLLEGE,
THEY GO WILD WITH EXCITEMENT

AND THE FREEDOM THAT EXISTS.
AND IT TURNS OUT THAT IF THE

GOVERNOR AND HIS
ADMINISTRATION CONTINUES TO

TELL US TO SIT AND WAIT AND BE
PATIENT, WE'RE GOING TO SEE

MORE OF THIS.

>> LIKE THE FELLOW SAID LORD
GIVE ME PATIENCE AND I WANT IT

RIGHT NOW. HOWARD THE SPEEDWAY
OWNER SAID THAT COOPER'S

EXECUTIVE ORDER WAS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL. JUDGE TOM

LAMBETH JR. DIDN'T APPEAR TO
ADDRESS THAT CHARGE, BUT HE DID

ISSUE THE RESTRAINING ORDER AND
SAY HE WOULD TAKE THIS ISSUE

BACK UP JUNE 19TH.

THIS COULD BE A PRETTY
IMPORTANT HEARING, COULDN'T IT?

ISN'T GOING TO FOCUS ON THE
CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE

GOVERNOR TO ISSUE ORDERS?

>> I THINK IT POSSIBLY COULD.

I DO THINK THE GOVERNOR IS
ON SOLID GROUND.

I THINK WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT
SPEEDWAY IS WHAT I THOUGHT

SHOULD BE DONE ACROSS THE BOARD
ANYWAY, IS THE GOVERNOR AND

HIS STAFF SET STANDARDS, EXPECT
PEOPLE TO LIVE UP TO THOSE

STANDARDS AND THEN LET THEM
MAKE THE DECISION WITHIN THAT

GUIDELINE AND IF THEY DON'T,
COME DOWN HARD ON THEM.

SO IN THE CASE OF THE SPEEDWAY

THIS IS EXACTLY
WHAT HAPPENED AND I THINK THE

GOVERNOR'S ON SOLID GROUND.
BUT CERTAINLY THINK THAT

HEARING IS GOING TO BE AN
IMPORTANT DECISION FOR

SETTING THE STAGE FOR OUR FUTURE
AND HOW GOVERNMENTS CAN BEHAVE.

>> JOHN THE OWNERS OF THE
SPEEDWAY SAID THEY WERE BEING

SINGLED OUT.

IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE AND
THAT OTHER PEOPLE WERE

CONDUCTING RACES AND BIG EVENTS
AND SO FORTH LIKE THAT.

IS THIS EVIDENCE WE'RE SEEING
ALAMANCE COUNTY WITH A BIG

SPIKE IN THE NUMBER OF CASES,
THE NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS

REQUIRED, IS THIS EVIDENCE FROM
THE RACE AND THEY HELD 2 WEEKS

AGO, IS THIS GOING TO
YIELD BIG SPIKES AGAIN?

>> I DOUBT IT BECAUSE IT DIDN'T
DO IT THE FIRST TIME. THE SPIKES

DO NOT APPEAR TO BE RELATED TO
THE RACING OF ALAMANCE

COUNTY. I THINK THAT
THE BEST ARGUMENT THE RACETRACK

FOLKS HAVE IS THE SELECTIVE
ENFORCEMENT ARGUMENT, THAT THEY

WERE TARGETED OTHER RACETRACKS
INCLUDING THE NASCAR RACE,

THE NASCAR RACE DID NOT HAVE A
LARGE AUDIENCE, IT STILL HAD

HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TOGETHER
IN AN OUTDOOR VENUE WHICH IS

LIKE APPARENT VIOLATION OF THE
GOVERNOR'S ORDER. AND YET IT

WAS DONE IN CONJUNCTION
IN NEGOTIATION WITH THE

ADMINISTRATION. I THINK THAT IS
THE VULNERABILITY PROBABLY NOT

THE CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENT AT
THIS MOMENT, BUT IT'S A

SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT ARGUMENT
THAT IF ANYTHING WERE TO

PREVAIL IT WOULD BE THAT ONE.

>> FOLLOWING UP ON THAT CHRIS
DOES THAT MEAN WE'RE GOING TO

SEE THE SAME KIND OF ORDERS
BEING ISSUED OTHER SPEEDWAYS

AND OTHER VENUES. PEOPLE
DISOBEYING THE EXECUTIVE

ORDERS.

>> WELL, I GUESS THAT WE'RE
GOING TO SEE I THINK PART OF

THE CHALLENGE HERE AS A BED AND
SAID ARE EXAMPLES LIKE THE

PEOPLE ON SPRING WHAT PEOPLE
GET GOING TO THE UNIVERSITY OR

PEOPLE GOING TO COLLEGE AND
WANTED TO BE FREE AND ALL THAT

THE ONLY PROBLEM IS WE'RE
DEALING WITH A DEADLY

INFECTIOUS DISEASE. WE HAVE
RECORD NUMBERS OF

HOSPITALIZATIONS FOR SEVERAL
DAYS IN A ROW, AND WHAT'S SO

STUNNING TO ME AND WHILE THAT'S
ALL GOING ON WE'RE DEBATING ALL

THIS SOME OF THE SAME PEOPLE
WHO DEMAND THAT WE HAVE NO

RESTRICTIONS OR DEMAND THAT WE
OPEN, REFUSED TO WEAR MASKS TO

PROTECT OTHER PEOPLE WHICH IS
THE SINGLE NOW MOST IMPORTANT

THING WE CAN DO. THIS IS EVEN
SPREAD PRIMARILY THROUGH

PERSONAL CONTACTS. YOU PROTECT
OTHER PEOPLE BY WEARING MASKS WE

HAVE LEADERS AND ADVOCATES WHO
ARE THING WE NEED TO OPEN

BUSINESSES THE MOST IMPORTANT
THING WILL IF WE'RE GOING TO DO

IT FOR GOODNESS SAKES WHY CAN'T
WE DO IT SAFELY? I'M STILL

PERPLEXED THAT WE SEE
PICTURES AND IMAGES ALL OVER

THE PLACE OF PEOPLE BESIDE EACH
OTHER THEY THINK SOMEHOW IT'S

NOT MANLY TO WEAR A MASK TO
PROTECT YOUR NEIGHBOR.

>> ANNA BEAVON THIS WAS NOT THE
ONLY RESTRAINING ORDER THAT WAS

SOUGHT THIS PAST WEEK, SEVERAL
OWNERS OF GYMS TRIED TO GET A

RESTRAINING ORDER TO KEEP UP A
GOVERNOR COOPER FROM REFUSING

TO LET THEM OPEN. AND THE JUDGE
WOULD NOT GRANT THAT

RESTRAINING ORDER IN THE
MEANTIME THE LEGISLATURE

PASSED A BILL WHICH SAID GYMS
AND BARS COULD OPEN. IT'S

SITTING ON GOVERNOR COOPER'S
DESK. THEY DIDN'T WRITE OR TO

OVERRIDE THE VETO. THE FIRST
TIME AROUND WHEN GOVERNOR

COOPER VETOED IT ARE THEY GOING
TO OVERRIDE THIS BILL FROM HIS

THE DETAILER GOING TO TEMPT
OVERRIDE IT.

>> I THINK THEY'RE DEFINITELY
GOING TO

ATTEMPT TO OVERRIDE THIS ONE,

I THINK THE FIRST ONE WAS
A CHANCE FOR THE GOVERNOR TO

PLAY NICE WITH THE GENERAL
ASSEMBLY OR THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

TO PLAY NICE WITH THE GOVERNOR.
WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING MORE

OF NORTH CAROLINA BACK TO WORK.
BUT I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE

ONE OF THOSE TIMES WHERE THE
GENERAL ASSEMBLY US GOING

MAKE THIS A REALITY.

>> HOWARD YOU SAT IN THAT
CHAMBER FOR MANY YEARS. CAN THEY

GET THE 3/5THS VOTE THAT THEY
NEED TO OVERRIDE THE VETO IN

BOTH HOUSES?

>> I DON'T THINK SO AND I'M NOT
SURE THAT IT WILL BE A SMART

THING TO DO. YOU CAN QUESTION
THE SYSTEM THE GOVERNOR IS

USING IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING
THESE DECISIONS. BUT AT THE

SAME TIME AS CHRIS SAID THIS IS
A VERY DEADLY DISEASE. AND I'M

JUST DISAPPOINTED THAT MANY OF
THE INFLUENTIAL LEADERS DON'T

THEMSELVES EVEN WEAR THE MASK
TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. SO WHEN

I LOOK AT THE LEGISLATIVE
CHAMBER, I CERTAINLY THINK THAT

THEY'RE GOING TO BE A CLOSE
CALL. IF I WAS SITTING THERE I

WOULD NOT VOTE TO OVERRIDE. I
THINK IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAT

PEOPLE'S HEALTH THAN
IT IS TO TRY

AND OVERRIDE A VETO
AT THIS POINT.

>> BUT THEY HAD SOME DEMOCRATS
VOTES IN PASSING THIS

INITIATION TO BEGIN WITH
DIDN'T THEY JOHN?

>> THEY DID. IN FACT I THINK THE
I WOULD BE OVER IN THE SENATE

JUST A QUESTION OF WHETHER WILL
BE OVERRIDDEN IN THE HOUSE.

I THINK IT'S AT LEAST
CONCEIVABLE THAT

IT COULD BE OVERRIDDEN.

THIS REVISED LEGISLATION ALLOWS
THE GOVERNOR TO REENACT

THIS TIME I HOPE ACTUALLY THE
LAW WOULD MAKE IT CLEARER THAT

HE WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THE
ORIGINAL STATUTE WHICH INVOLVES

COUNCIL STATE APPROVAL.

BUT I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE
HERE IS PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT

LEVELS OF RISK PREFERENCE, THEY
HAVE DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS

OF THE DATA, THE RIGHT
OF POSITIVE TESTS HAS

BEEN ABOUT BUT IT'S BOUNCING
AROUND TO 18% SINCE THE

REOPENING AND IN MAY 22ND.

AND THE EVIDENCE OF THE
HOSPITALIZATIONS IS ACTUALLY

RATHER MONEY

BECAUSE WE ARE IN FACT HAVING
MORE PEOPLE GOING TO THE

HOSPITALS TO HAVE OTHER
CONDITIONS ADDRESSED AND

SURGERIES THAT WERE DEFERRED
HAVE OTHER THINGS AND YES,

THEY'RE ALL BEING TESTED SO
WE'RE INTERESTED IN IS HOW MANY

PEOPLE WERE HOSPITALIZED
BECAUSE THEY HAD COVID GIVEN

THE FACT THAT THE OTHER METRIC
THAT THE STATE HAS BEEN

TRACKING WHICH IS THE SHERIFF
EMERGENCY ROOM ADMISSIONS HAVE

TO HAVE COVID HAS NOT BEEN
GOING UP THAT SUGGESTS THAT THE

STATE ARE MORE COMPLICATED.
THEY THEY REQUIRE MORE

CAREFUL CONSIDERATION. BUT
FRANKLY, EITHER SIDE IS

CURRENTLY THE POLITICAL THE
POLITICIZATION OF THIS MOMENT I

THINK IS MISTAKEN.

>> WELL IT IS HIGHLY POLITICIZED
IS NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

CHRIS THE LEGISLATURE
PASSED BILL AND PUT IT ON THE

SENATE TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.
THAT WOULD REQUIRE HOSPITALS TO

ALLOW AT LEAST ONE FAMILY
MEMBER TO VISIT PEOPLE WHO ARE

HOSPITALIZED. THE RULING OF
COURSE HAD BEEN WITH NURSING

HOMES AND WITH OTHER. THE
CONGREGATE CARE KINDS OF

FACILITIES THEY WOULDN'T ALLOW
PEOPLE TO COME IN AND VISIT

IS COOPER GOING TO
VETO THIS BILL?

>> I'M NOT SURE BUT I
CONTINUE TO BE SURPRISED THAT

PEOPLE IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
BELIEVE THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT

HOSPITAL ADMISSION POLICY,
INFECTION RATES AND DISEASE THAN

THE PEOPLE WHO RUN HOSPITALS AND
THE PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSIONALS,

AND I THINK, I SAY THIS
EVERY WEEK, THE ELEPHANT IN

THE ROOM HERE, IS WHEN THE LAST
TIME WE HEARD FROM DOCTOR FAUCI

THE CDC, NATIONAL MESSAGING,
WE ARE LITERALLY LEADER-LESS

IN THIS COUNTRY. AND SO WE'RE
TURNING TO GOVERNORS.

ARIZONA'S HOSPITALIZATION
RATE IS GOING

THROUGH THE ROOF, THE VIRUS
IS MOVING INTO THE SOUTH AND

THE WEST, THE DATA IS PRETTY
CLEAR ABOUT THAT. AND YET WE'RE

ALL WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT BARS
AND RESTAURANTS WHICH I

APPRECIATE THAT THEY'RE
STRUGGLING. I HOPE THAT THEY

GOT RELIEF FROM THE LOAN
PROGRAM, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW THE

DETAILS OF WHO RELEASED THAT.
WE'RE LIVING IN A VACUUMLESS,

A LEADER-LESS TIME AND
WERE ALL FLAILING ABOUT WHILE WE

HAVE AN INFECTIOUS DISEASE ON
THE RISE. IT'S FRANKLY STUNNING.

>> AND AND ON TOP OF ALL OF
THAT IS THE CONTROVERSY

SURROUNDING THE GOP CONVENTION.
THEY ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT

THE CONVENTION - THE BIG RALLY
FOR THE CONVENTION WOULD BE

HELD IN FLORIDA. AFTER THE DUST
HAS SETTLED A LITTLE BIT HERE,

WE'VE GOT A 1000 NEW CASES
EVERY DAY, WE'VE GOT RECORD

NUMBERS OF PEOPLE IN HOSPITALS
DUE TO COVID-19 ACCORDING TO

SECRETARY COHEN AND SO THE
QUESTION IS REGARDING THIS GOP

CONVENTION WHO WON
TRUMP OR COOPER?

I'M GOING TO ASK EVERYBODY.
JOHN?

>> COOPER GOT WHAT HE WANTED HE
DIDN'T WANT THE CONVENTION SO

AGAIN HE GOT WHAT HE WANTED. HE
GOT THAT. I THINK THAT IN THE

LONG RUN IT WILL HURT HIM HE'S
BASICALLY SAYING RALLY IF I

AGREE WITH YOU THAT'S OK.

RALLY AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
TOGETHER RALLY THAT'S OKAY.

BUT IF I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU
CAN'T HAVE A RALLY. REMEMBER

THIS IS - THIS LARGE EVENT
THAT'S GOING TO BE HELD WILL

PROBABLY BE OUTSIDE IN
JACKSONVILLE FLORIDA.

I THINK THAT I COULD'VE
WORKED THAT OUT.

>> THEY'RE ACTUALLY TALKING
ABOUT DOING INSIDE IN AN ARENA.

>> [JOHN] EVEN THEN --

TRUMP IS HAVING A RALLY IN
TULSA FRIDAY NIGHT WITH 19,000

PEOPLE IN AN ARENA, HE'S ASKED
THEM TO SIGN SOMETHING SAYING --

>> [TOM] THEY GOTTA SIGN A
WAIVER!

>> THEY HAVE TO SIGN A WAIVER
THAT'S WHAT COOPER DOESN'T WANT

IN NORTH CAROLINA IS 19,000
PEOPLE INSIDE THE BUILDING

AND THEN GOING AROUND TO THE
REST OF THE STATE.

>> THEY SHOULD'VE WORKED IT
OUT TO DO THIS BIG CORONATION

EVENT OUTSIDE, THAT'S
MY OPINION.

>> AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WAS
NEGOTIATING

WITH THE RNC AND TRUMP
INTERVENED WITH

A TWEET BLAMING GOVERNOR COOPER.
COOPER AND PUBLIC HEALTH WON

THAT'S WHO WON.

>> ALL RIGHT SO. COOPER, WON
CHRIS.

HOWARD WHO WON?

>> I THINK WE
WON AS NORTH CAROLINIANS

BECAUSE WE DON'T
HAVE 19,000 PEOPLE SHOULDER TO

SHOULDER IN AN ARENA
IN A PANDEMIC.

>> ALL RIGHT HOWARD
TRUMP OR COOPER?

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THE PEOPLE
OF NORTH CAROLINA WON BECAUSE

I'VE BEEN VERY NERVOUS ABOUT
THIS CONVENTION AND THAT NUMBER

OF PEOPLE BEING HELD IN AN
ARENA, AND I THINK THE CHANCES

OF SPREADING THE DISEASE IN
THIS STATE, IT'S GETTING MORE

AND MORE POSSIBLE ALL ALONG.
I JUST DISAGREE WITH

THINKING THAT WE CAN HOLD THE
CONVENTION AND THAT'S MORE

IMPORTANT THAN PROTECTING
PEOPLE'S HEALTH.

SO I GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE IN
NORTH CAROLINA

AND PARTIALLY TO COOPER.

>> ANNA BEAVON WHO WON?

>> I THINK THEY'RE BOTH GOING TO
CLAIM VICTORY HERE.

THEY'RE STILL
DISCUSSION OF HAVING THE

BUSINESS SESSION IN CHARLOTTE.
SO SOME OF THESE CONTRACTS WILL

STILL HOLD. BUT TRUMP HIMSELF
WILL NOT BE HERE SO HE WILL

CLAIM VICTORY.

>> BUT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL
CONVENTION COMMITTEE HAS

LIMITED EVERY STATE TO HAVING 6
DELEGATES. SO

EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY BE
HONORING THE LETTER OF THE LAW

ON SOME OF THESE CONTRACTS.

CHARLOTTE'S NOT GOING TO SEE
SUCH A BIG ECONOMIC

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

THEY LOST IN THIS WHOLE STORY.

>> LET'S SWITCH GEARS A LITTLE
BIT. MOST EVERYBODY IN NORTH

CAROLINA AGREES NORTH
CAROLINA'S 1.6 MILLION K TO 12

GRADE SCHOOL CHILDREN NEED TO
RETURN TO CLASS. NOW THE BIG

QUESTION IS HOW TO DO IT
SAFELY. THIS WEEK WE'VE GOT

SOME GUIDELINES AS TO HOW THAT
MIGHT HAPPEN. THE DEPARTMENT OF

HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, THE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC

INSTRUCTION, THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION OF ISSUED WHAT THEY

CALLED LIGHTING THE WAY FORWARD.
THIS PLAN HAS 3 PHASES RANGING

FROM MINIMAL SOCIAL DISTANCING
MODERATE SOCIAL DISTANCING AND

A RETURN TO ONLINE INSTRUCTION.
THE DECISION AS TO WHICH PHASE

IS SELECTED WILL DEPEND ON HOW
NORTH CAROLINA'S MANAGING

COVID-19. HOWARD LEE YOU WERE
CHAIRMAN OF OUR STATE BOARD OF

EDUCATION AND YOU CONTINUE TO
WORK WITH SCHOOL CHILDREN

ACROSS OUR STATE. SECRETARY
COHEN SAYS WHILE YOUNG CHILDREN

CAN CERTAINLY BE INFECTED,
THEY DON'T SEEM AS SUSCEPTIBLE

AS OLDER PEOPLE. AND WE WANT TO
TALK ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF

THIS PLAN, BUT I WANT TO HEAR
YOUR REACTION TO THE LIGHT THE

WAY FORWARD PLAN.

>> WELL, I LOVE THE SLOGANS THAT
PEOPLE THROW OUT THESE DAYS.

I THINK THE GUIDELINES ARE
FAIRLY CLEAR AND CERTAINLY GIVE

AN INDICATION OF WHAT POSSIBLE
DIRECTIONS WE CAN GO.

I LIKE THE THOUGHT THAT THEY
WILL LISTEN TO THE GOVERNOR

BY JULY 1, TO DETERMINE
IF THE CONDITIONS ARE SUCH THAT

THEY CAN PROCEED FORWARD.
I DO SEE SOME REAL POSITIVES IN

THE GUIDELINES WOULD
THINK THAT KIDS CAN BE MANAGED

SAFELY IN THE CLASSROOM AND I'M
DELIGHTED THAT WE'RE MOVING IN

THAT DIRECTION, BUT WE'VE GOT TO
BE VERY CAREFUL BECAUSE IN

SPITE OF THAT WE STILL HAVE ONE
CHILD A AND OTHERS

COULD CONTRACT THE DISEASE AND
WE CAN HAVE OTHER DEATHS

BY PUTTING THEM ALL TOGETHER.

>> ALL RIGHT SO THE BASICS OF
THE PLAN IS MINIMAL SOCIAL

DISTANCING, WHICH MEANS
ESSENTIALLY,

KIDS GO BACK TO SCHOOL THE
WAY THEY WERE

BEFORE THE
PANDEMIC HIT. THE MODERATE OR

PLAN B IS A MODERATE SOCIAL
DISTANCING WHICH WOULD REQUIRE

SOME SEPARATIONS 6 FEET
SEPARATIONS AND VARIOUS THINGS

LIKE THAT. AND THEN THE 3RD
OPTION IS WE JUST GO BACK TO

ONLINE LEARNING, WHICH I THINK
IS THE LEAST PALATABLE FOR

EVERYBODY.

GOVERNOR COOPER GETS TO MAKE
THAT DECISION AND HE SUPPOSED

TO MAKE IT BY JULY 1ST THAT'S 2
WEEKS FROM NOW JOHN. WHAT ARE WE

GOING TO KNOW THEN THAT
WE DON'T KNOW NOW?

>> I'M NOT SURE THAT PEOPLE
WILL HAVE CHANGED THEIR VIEWS

ONE WAY THE OTHER VERY MUCH ON
THIS. TOM, I THINK YOU'RE

BEING CHARITABLE VERY
CHAIRITABLE. PLAN A

IS NOT MINIMAL, WHATEVER
TERM THEY WANT TO DESCRIBE IT

HAS LOTS OF REQUIREMENTS
IN IT, I THINK IT IS LIKELY TO

BE IMPRACTICAL JUST PLAN A. PLAN
B INVOLVES PROBABLY ALTERNATING

BETWEEN DAY SO STUDENTS WOULD
GO TO SCHOOL ON MONDAY

AND NOT ON TUESDAY.

I THINK THEY WILL ALSO
FIND THAT IN PRACTICAL

I UNDERSTAND THAT THE
MOTIVATION,

THIS IS AS HOWARD
SAID IT'S A CHALLENGING TOPIC.

BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE
TO BE VERY REALISTIC ABOUT WHAT

IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN A SCHOOL
SOMETIMES IN SOME PARTS OF THE

STATE OVER ALREADY IN AN
OVERCROWDED SCHOOL

WITH LOTS OF KIDS COMING IN WHO
ARE NOT KNOWN FOR FOLLOWING,

YOU KNOW, SECOND GRADERS ARE
NOT KNOWN FOR FOLLOWING

INSTRUCTIONS EASILY.

WE HAVE TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT
WHAT IS REALISTIC HERE. IT IS

ALSO NOT REALISTIC TO HAVE
SEMESTER AT HOME AGAIN. I THINK

YOU'LL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT
REBELLION AGAINST THAT.

>> I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT
THAT. ANNA BEAVON, YOU COME

FROM A FAMILY OF EDUCATORS
THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE

SUGGESTING WAIT A MINUTE THIS
SHOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE A

STATEWIDE DECISION ON HOW WE'RE
GOING TO DO THIS. WE OUGHT TO

TURN THIS OVER TO THE LEA'S
LOCAL EDUCATION AUTHORITIES IN

EACH COUNTY TO LET THEM DECIDE
ON A PLAN A, PLAN B, PLAN C.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT.

>> I DEFINITELY THINK THAT'S
THE BEST WAY TO GO. NOT EVERY

PART OF THE STATE HAS BEEN
IMPACTED THE SAME WAY BY COVID

AND GIVING SCHOOLS THE
OPPORTUNITIES TO BE ABLE TO

TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WORKS BEST
FOR THEN WE'LL REALLY ENSURE

THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF SUCCESS.
THE PART THAT WAS INTERESTING

TO ME ABOUT THE PLAN IS THAT, OR
THE PROPOSAL IS THAT PLAN B

WAS THE ONE THAT HAD THE MOST
ENERGY PUT INTO THE SOLUTIONS

THAT HAVE THE GREATEST
RANGE OF ALTERNATIVES

WHERE I REALLY THINK THAT
DISTANCE-LEARNING OR ONLINE

LEARNING IS GOING TO BE WAY
MORE IMPACTFUL MOVING FORWARD

AND THERE REALLY JUST DIDN'T
SEEM TO BE A LOT OF SOLUTIONS

TO FIX THAT.
>> THAT IS THE LEAST PALATABLE

OF ALL THE
SOLUTIONS TO EVERYBODY I THINK.

>> [ANNA] OH FOR SURE. YES.

WE WANT TO GET OUR KIDS
BACK IN CLASSROOMS.

CHRIS ARE A LOT OF
PARENTS ARE SAYING

YOU KNOW WE'RE GOING TO
SIT AND WATCH THIS.

THEY ARE UPSET
BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT REQUIRED

STUDENTS AND TEACHERS AND
PERSONNEL WERE NOT REQUIRED TO

WEAR FACE COVERINGS AND THEY'RE
SAYING WE WANT TO WAIT AND SEE

HOW WE THINK THIS IS
GOING TO BE -- WHAT HAPPENS

IF A LARGE NUMBER OF PARENTS
JUST REFUSED TO SEND THEIR KIDS

BACK TO SCHOOL?

>> WELL I THINK THAT COULD
HAPPEN IN SOME AREAS, I THINK

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO BE SO
CAREFUL AND MAKE SURE THAT

PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE RISKS,
UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PLANS ARE, I

DO THINK IT'S GOING TO BE SOME
VERSION OF COMING AND GOING

BACK TO SCHOOL. I DON'T THINK
ANYBODY THINKS IT'S GOING TO BE

ONLINE ONLY UNLESS
THINGS GET MUCH WORSE

WHICH I HOPE THEY DON'T
BETWEEN NOW AND AUGUST.

THE HARD PART OF COURSE

IS THERE'S
NOT ONLY CHILDREN IN SCHOOL

THERE ARE STAFF MEMBERS.

THERE ARE
TEACHERS WHO ARE OVER THAN 60

YEARS OLD, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT
HAVE HEALTH MALADIES THAT

MAKE THEM MORE AT RISK, I'M A
LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT HOW WE

WE STAFF A SCHOOL SAFELY
DURING THIS PANDEMIC. IT'S NOT

SOMETHING WE CAN'T OVERCOME, BUT
I THINK THAT ONE OF THE PRIMARY

RISKS. THE PEOPLE AT RISK HERE
ARE THE ADULTS IN THE SCHOOL.

>> HOWARD, LET'S LOOK AT THIS
THING FROM A TODAY PERSPECTIVE.

IF THE GOVERNOR HAD TO MAKE THIS
DECISION TODAY,I THINK HE'D

HAVE A HARD TIME ADOPTING PLAN
A WHICH IS THE MINIMAL KIND OF

OPENING AND CERTAINLY NOBODY
WANTS TO GO TO PLAN C WHICH IS

GOING BACK TO ONLINE LEARNING.
THE QUESTION HERE IS IF WE HAVE

TO GO TO THE PLAN B WHICH
INCLUDES PERHAPS CHILDREN GOING

TO SCHOOL HALF A DAY IN STAYING
HOME HALF A DAY, YOU'RE GOING

ONE DAY IN STAYING HOME THE
OTHER THIS IS GOING TO PUT AN

INCREDIBLE HARDSHIP ON PARENTS
WHO HAVE TO WORK ISN'T IT?

>> IT WILL AND OF COURSE I
FIND PLAN B TO BE THE MOST

ACCEPTABLE. BUT YET THE MOST
DIFFICULT TO MANAGE, BUT IT HAS

BEEN DONE BEFORE WE HAVE HAD A
PRESSURE THAT HAD US GO TO

HALF DAY SCHOOLS WITH KIDS
COMING IN THE MORNING,

THEN ANOTHER GROUP COMING IN
THE AFTERNOON.

SO WE COULD MAKE IT WORK AND

CERTAINLY I THINK IT WOULD BE
THE SAFEST. BUT I'M ALSO

CONCERNED ABOUT THE BEING ABLE
TO TRANSPORT KIDS,

10 AND 20 KIDS ON THE BUS.

WHICH I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE
EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE.

>> WELL NOT ONLY THAT,

BUT THE LEGISLATURE
THIS PAST WEEK, G JOHN

PASSED A BILL IN WHICH THEY

ROBBED THE FUND FOR BUS
REPLACEMENTS AND REPAIRS

IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO HELP
SHORE UP BUDGET SOMEWHERE ELSE.

IS THIS GOING TO BE ANOTHER
BILL THAT GOVERNOR COOPER'S

GOING TO VETO?

>> THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.
IS VERY CLEAR THAT

THAT WE WILL NOT BE SPENDING ON
CAPITAL THE WAY PEOPLE

ANTICIPATED THAT INCLUDES
SCHOOL BUILDING BECAUSE WE HAD

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN UPCOMING
BUDGET DEFICITS AND EVEN

WITHOUT REPLACING SCHOOL BUSES
WHICH IS WHAT THAT FUND IS FOR

AS HOWARD SAYS PLAN A AND FACT
FORGET PLANT BEFORE SECOND

WHICH ACTUALLY DON'T THINK LAB
PLAN WOULD REQUIRE SOME

ADDITIONAL EXPENSE PERHAPS A
LOT OF ADDITIONAL EXPENSE.

>> AND ONE OF THOSE ADDITIONAL
EXPENSES

IS TEACHERS AND NURSES IN
EVERY SCHOOL FOR SCHOOLS THAT

ARE ALREADY COMPLAINING ABOUT
NOT HAVING FUNDING AND WITH

US WITH A TEACHER SHORTAGE
CHRIS, THIS COULD BE VERY

PROBLEMATIC, WITH A NUMBER OF
OUR TEACHERS ARE ALREADY,

YOU KNOW, REACHING SOME AGE IF
I CAN SAY THAT IS DELICATELY AS

POSSIBLE AND MIGHT NOT FEEL
SAFE GOING BACK INTO THE

CLASSROOM THIS YEAR. SO THIS
PRESENT SOME REAL PROBLEMS

DOESN'T IT?

>> IT DOES. THAT'S WHAT I WAS
GETTING AT WITH EARLIER WHICH

IS THAT THE STAFFING AND THE
SORT OF SENIOR TEACHERS

SENIOR IN AGE, TEACHERS AND
STAFF. I THINK WILL CERTAINLY

HAVE SOME CONCERNS. IT DOES
REMIND US THAT WE NEEDED TO BE

A LONG TIME AGO WE NEEDED TO
SPEND MORE ON SCHOOL NURSES AND

MAKE SURE THEY WERE THERE.
IT'S ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT NOW

DURING THIS PANDEMIC.

>> WELL THE JULY 4TH PERIOD
IS GOING TO BE VERY EXCITING

AROUND HERE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT
A LOT OF JUDICIAL DECISIONS.

THE GOVERNOR'S GOING TO HAVE TO
MAKE DECISIONS ON SCHOOLS

AND
WE CERTAINLY ARE GOING TO BE

TALKING ABOUT THEM AS TIME GOES
ON. THE ONE THING I THINK

EVERYBODY CAN AGREE ABOUT IS
THAT WE REALLY DO WANT TO GET

OUR KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL AND
RIGHT NOW WE REALLY DO WANT TO

GET THE PANEL TO TELL US
SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.

HOWARD LEE START US OFF TELL US
SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.

>> YOU KNOW WHEN I LOOK AT THE
THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT

NOW, TO ME IT'S KIND OF LIKE
LIVING ALONG DREADED NIGHTMARE.

JULY 19TH IS SOMETHING CALLED
JUNETEENTH

AND THAT'S THE DAY THE SLAVES
WERE FREED.

AND IT DISTURBS ME THAT TULSA,
OKLAHOMA CERTAINLY

ENDED UP BEING THE MASSACRE THAT
WE ALL GREW UP READING ABOUT.

AND FOR THE PRESIDENT TO GO AND
HOLD A RALLY ON THAT DAY IN

THAT COMMUNITY SIMPLY OPEN UP
A LOT OF OLD WOUNDS,

AND I THINK IT'S GOING

TO SPREAD IN A WAY THAT WON'T
BE DESIRABLE.

>> CHRIS FITZSIMON TELL US
SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW.

>> ONE OF THE MOST
INTERESTING ISSUES I THINK IS

THAT THE MILITARY PLAYING A ROLE
IN WHAT'S HAPPENING.

IN OUR COUNTRY IN THE MOOD FOR
RACIAL JUSTICE, THE JOINT THE

CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF
STAFF THIS WEEK APOLOGIZED,

FOR MARCHING TO THE CHURCH WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP. THE

MILITARY LEADERS ARE OPEN TO
RENAMING BASES THAT ARE

NAMED AFTER CONFEDERATE GENERALS
A REPUBLICAN COMMITTEE THIS

WEEK VOTED TO DO THAT WITHIN 3
YEARS. SENATOR TILLIS OBJECTED

SO HE DISAGREES WITH IT LOOKS
LIKE THE MILITARY AND A

REPUBLICAN COMMITTEE THAT'S
GOING TO BE A BIG ISSUE I THINK

IN THE CAMPAIGN.

>> GOT ABOUT A MINUTE 30 LEFT.

AB TELL US SOMETHING WE
DON'T KNOW.

>> SO THE MILLENNIAL GENERATION
HAS BEEN NAMED TO THE MOST

UNLUCKY GENERATION IN HISTORY.
YEAH, IT'S A BUMMER. BUT 59% OF

MILLENNIALS ARE ACTUALLY
WITHDRAWING FROM THEIR 401K

RETIREMENT PLANS EARLY.
AND ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS IS

BECAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL
RESTRAINT FROM COVID.

>> WOULD YOU KNOW ANYONE IN
THAT GENERATION?

>> I DO KNOW QUITE A FEW

>> JOHN TELL US SOMETHING WE
DON'T KNOW.

WE GOT ABOUT A MINUTE.

>> ALL RIGHT WELL NORTH
CAROLINA LAST ABOUT A LITTLE

OVER 50,000 JOBS AND IN MARCH
AND APRIL IN THE AREA OF HEALTH

CARE AND SOCIAL ASSISTANCE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
NUMBERS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE

FOR MAY YET, WE'LL HAVE THOSE
ANOTHER WEEK OR SO, BUT IT IS

LIKELY THAT A LOT OF THOSE JOBS
WILL RETURN A LOT OF DENTAL

PRACTICES DOCTOR PRACTICES HAVE
BEEN ADDED BACK IN DAYCARES

WHICH IS ANOTHER AREA THAT HAS
LOST SOME EMPLOYMENT WILL HAVE

SOME RECOVERY SO THAT WOULD AT
LEAST I THINK WILL IMPROVE IN

MAY WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.
>> WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK

AT THOSE NUMBERS. WELL YOU'VE
HEARD OUR SPIN ON THE ISSUES

OF THE DAY.

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