>> From 90.7 WFAE.
This is a special
edition of Charlotte Talks
a public conversation.
Unrest in the Queen City One
Year Later.
I'm Mike Collins, we're coming
to you from Spirit Square's
McGlohon Theater in
downtown Charlotte.
At this time a year ago
tonight September 20th 2016
just hours after the shooting
by police of Keith Lamont
Scott a group of demonstrators
began to gather
at Old Concord Road
in the University City area.
By the next night those protests
would filter into downtown
Charlotte building in intensity
eventually becoming a riot
or as some prefer
to call it resistance.
Whatever you call it.
The response to the shooting
puts Charlotte in
the national spotlight
in a way it had
never been before
and shook the city to its core.
It started conversations
in every nook and
cranny of our town.
Indeed across the state
that continued today
and which will certainly
continue over the next few hours
we all have a stake in where
these conversations take us
and that is why this program
is being broadcast statewide.
In addition to Charlotte
and hickory we're joined
by listeners
from Raleigh Durham
Chapel Hill Fayetteville
and points in between.
Thanks to our friends at WNC.
The purpose of this
special two hour
Charlotte talks is not to rehash
the events of last year
but to look more closely at what
has come from the shooting
and the disturbances and soul
searching that followed
as well as what is left to do.
However before we do
that a brief reminder
of what brought us here tonight.
>> This has been a difficult
couple of days
for the city of Charlotte.
Don't let them break the window.
>> Keith don't do it. Keith!
>> Get out the car!
Keith!
Keith don't you do it!
Keith! Keith! Keith!
Don't you...
[rapid gun shots]
Did you shoot him?
Did you shoot him!!
>> Handcuffs, handcuffs.
Handcuffs.
>> I'm not gonna come near you!
I'm gonna record you!
I'm not coming near you!
He'd better be alive!
>> Roughly 1000 protesters
marched through portions
of the university area
last night
and early this morning
in response
to a police shooting death
of an African-American man.
>> The victim is 43 year
old Keith Lamont
Scott Sahira Whiteside
a student at Central
Piedmont Community College
says she came out enjoying
the protest and is frustrated.
>> I can't watch another black
man on another Facebook page
another newscast
I can't keep watching it happen
and not nobody else
is doing nothing about it.
And just as the 11 o'clock
freight train past protesters
began throwing rocks
and water bottles.
>> And smashing in the windows.
Song so badly they had
to be towed from the scene.
And then once police
in riot gear
Dawn gas masks and helmets.
And began shooting rounds
of tear gas into the crowd.
>> About 100 people stood
in silent protest
in front of Bank
of America headquarters
at the end of the workday.
Signs read legalize being
black stop killing my brothers
and black lives matter.
As the crowd grew people
began chanting.
Then they marched us to police
headquarters for more chanting
and then to marshal park
where a larger and more
disorganized protest gathered.
>> There were hundreds
of protesters
on the street last night.
Originally it was about
the police shooting death
of a 43 year old
African-American
named Keith Lamont Scott.
But the anger over Scott's death
was quickly overtaken
when word of last
night's shooting
spread from person to person.
They again blamed the police.
The situation escalated.
More riot police were called
in banging their batons
against their shields
as they walked in line
before stopping
at an intersection
where protesters met them
yelling just inches
from the officers faces.
The police stood silently
for a time
then through
concussion grenades.
>> And tear gas canisters.
A steady breeze carried
the gas throughout the crowd.
>> The protesters retreated down
the street regrouped
and went back again and again.
>> Here comes round three
as the crowd is growing.
>> The Charlotte-Mecklenburg
police officer
who shot and killed an African
-American man in September
will not face any charges.
Mecklenburg County D.A.
said today all the evidence
supports officer
Brantly Vinson's claim
that he felt threatened
and that the fall of Mr. Scott
that we watched
is long simmering frustrations
boiled over.
>> I heard observers say
this is not a charlatan.
This is not the city
that we love but it is.
>> This is Charlotte.
This is where our friends
families neighbors
and colleagues felt
so passionate
that they marched on our streets
is a call for change.
But the fact that
criminal charges
are not appropriate
under the law
in this particular case does not
mean we can dismiss the concerns
expressed by those
who raise their voices
to raise the consciousness
of this community.
I think it's high time
that all of us recognize
that this is Charlotte
and not everyone experiences
the same Charlotte.
>> That last voice was that of
Mecklenburg County District
Attorney Andrew Murray
stating something that
might not have been obvious
to much of this city a year ago.
The fact that not everyone
experiences the same Charbel
is a realization that emerged
from last year's disturbances
and served as a wakeup call
to work toward change.
So tonight we examine three key
areas economic opportunity
and how it impacted the unrest
as well as what is being done
to address economic
disparities activism
not just during the disturbance
but in the days
and months afterward.
Was this the catalyst for people
to engage with others
in the city
to make improvements.
And of course policing which
here and around the country
has been undergoing scrutiny
what is being done
to build trust.
And Will reformer's work for
both police and the citizenry.
And that is where we start.
We're joined by Vicky Foster
assistant chief
of the Charlotte Mecklenburg
Police Department.
Thank you for
being here tonight.
We thank you for having me.
Robert Dawkins's the state
organizer for SAVE Coalition
and see that's a nonprofit
founded in 2013
to promote police
accountability.
Welcome back.
Thanks Mike.
And because the events
of last year
did not spring out of nowhere
because they have
deep seeded roots
we'll be hearing throughout
the program from Brenda Tindle
she is the staff historian
at the Levine Museum
of the new self.
Welcome back to you as well.
Thank you so much for having me.
Vickie let me start
with you Vicky Foster
due to the rash of violence
or the rash of videos
I should say that are
usually taken by camera phones
by bystanders to these
incidents involving police.
The nation at large
has been exposed over time
to the confrontations between
police and usually black men
and we're seeing something that
the black community has known
about for a very long time
which came as news
to many people
who are not in that community.
And of course the Scott
shooting followed on the heels
of many of those incidents last
year that were on television.
>> So how would you assess
your department's Europe
Department's interactions with
the African-American community
in our city then and now.
Well I think you know after
the riots we took a look at.
>> What we've always known
is that there is still distrust
within the African-American
community.
And so what we learned
was that it was a little deeper
than what we thought.
And our focus since then
has been on continuing
to build relationships
in our African-American
communities.
And so we've done
a lot of different things.
And some of those things
have worked really well
and some of those things
were continuing to improve.
You know one of the things that
we did right after the riots
where we started construction
conversation teams
what we learned was
that people wanted to be heard
and people were not being heard
at that particular time.
And we learned that that was
one of the key elements
is that people want to be heard.
They want to be able
to express their feelings.
And so these teams now
if we have an incident
we have 40 plus officers trained
that actually deploy
to the actual incident
and they are the ones
that talk to citizens
and try to tell them
you know OK what's going on
and try to let off
and let citizens understand
exactly what's going on
because at that particular time
they're not able to get
the answers that they want.
>> So we've had two
black police chiefs.
You're the assistant
police chief.
You're also African-American.
Does it what does what
when things like this happen
when you see these
shootings on television
and when you and you're at
the head of your own departments
What do you think what
goes through your mind.
>> Well you know for me
and I can only speak for myself
I mean any time I see
a officer involved shooting
whether it's CMPD
or across the country.
I mean obviously
I'm disheartened.
I do think that there
are shootings that.
Have really really caused
some serious problems
in our community
because there were not
what people would consider
to be justice.
And so I would say that every
time I see that I'm concerned
depending on the circumstances
of that actual particular
shooting you know
I have questions
just as well as anybody else.
You know I'm still human
even though I'm a police officer
I'm still human.
So I'm always disheartened
by officer involved shootings.
>> If there has been
anything good
that has come out
of this shooting
and all the other shootings
it is that there is a raised
public awareness about things
that have been well-known in
the African-American community.
Robert Dawkins
one of those things
is profiling
a lot of African-Americans
allege that they're pulled over
by police
or follow through department
stores by security guards
because of the color
of their skin.
And your organization
SAVE Coalition and C
has been working
on what you are working
on ending what you call
discriminatory profiling.
How prevalent would you say
that has been in Charlotte
and throughout North Carolina.
>> It's been prevalent
since 1865.
And every city in every state
of the country.
But what we found
from what Charlotte found
from Keith Lamont Scotts
when African-Americans
is not known for years
that there is a basis
for us to say
that the that
there is mistrusts with us
from the police department.
I mean this goes back from you
know slavery and slave catchers
to peonage to all of
the other things
that the police department
and the sheriff's department
were the legalized people
to round up African-Americans
and to punish African-Americans
and I think that
the police department
is making an attempt
to fix that history.
But every time more incidents
like this happens it pulls
that Band-Aid off again.
>> But you work around
the state of them.
If I understand this correctly
you work around the state.
So are there areas of the state
that are more receptive
to seeing this as a problem
that has been ongoing.
No. I want to work to fix it.
Are there areas of the state
reluctance to do that.
>> So there are cities
in the state
that may pay more attention
and may pay more lip service
to it like ash
fell to Chapel Hill at Durham.
But at the same time
they pay more attention to it.
They speak more about it
and within the same off
somebody that's African-American
will still be be arrested
or shot by police.
So I don't think that that's
helped fix the problem either.
>> Some say this stems from
racism some say it stems from
fear perhaps it stems from both
there seems to be a fear
in some of the people
in the public
of African-American men
in particular
particularly at night
and and in certain situations.
Brenda you were at the Levine
Museum of the new stuff
you've done lots of exhibits on
this you've done more programs
probably than we have
on this issue. Where
>> does this suspicion
of African-Americans
and this fear of
African-American men come from.
>> Historically historically
I think to to your point
that that is
really deeply embedded
in the history of slavery.
And I would argue that you know
the 13th amendment in particular
which was meant to provide
the constitutional teeth
for the dismantling
of the institution of slavery
that the 13th Amendment
actually has a loophole
that criminalizes
black men in particular.
And so when we talk
about the ways in which
that suspicion
is sort of nurtured.
I mean it's in our legislation
it is in our social mores.
It is in it's in the ground.
Most of us don't invention
of the contemporary period.
>> Right. I would wager
that most of us
don't know that
about the Constitution.
So if we don't know what how is
it that we have it in our genes.
>> I don't know
that I'm suggesting
that it's in our genes
what I'm suggesting
is that the laws often inform
the social realities.
>> Is there any
empirical evidence
historically speaking
that justifies the sphere.
>> Absolutely not.
>> I knew you would say it
but I wanted
to ask the question.
Kurt Putney's Deputy
Chief Kerr Putney
promised to take steps
to ease the tensions
that we saw last year
with these protests and riots.
The city hired an organization
called the police foundation
a group out of Washington
to study the department.
Their report has yet
to be released I'm told.
Putney's says that CMPD
has changed nonetheless.
Critics say reforms
haven't happened so
while we've been waiting
for this Police Foundation
report what has CMPD done.
Vicki Foster to improve things.
>> So you know as I started
talking about
just constructing teams
you know we did
transparency workshops.
What we found is that a lot
of people felt on the rise
that we weren't
being transparent.
They felt that we were
not selling everything
and so we started doing
transparency workshops
which are for our citizens it is
an abbreviated Citizen's Academy
where they can come out
and learn why we do
what we do learn
about our policies
learn about our procedures
so they can understand
sometimes not always
because no matter
what people are not going
to always understand
why we do what we do.
But we did do those workshops
and we are continuing
to do those.
We've had over 100 citizens
to go through those.
We implemented
de-escalation training
which we have always done
de-escalation training.
It was within other areas
of our training.
We now have a specific block
that is two hours
that all officers
have gone through
for de-escalation training.
On top of you know the Chief
does so many community forms.
He's out in the community
as often as he possibly can
and they're very open
and candid it forms
if you've ever attended
where he gives people
the opportunity
to ask what they want to ask.
Is it making a difference
do you think.
I think he's making
a big difference
because whenever you
are able to ask
the leader of an organization
whatever you want to ask
and you get an answer.
I absolutely think
he's making a difference.
>> Go ahead Robert, you
want to jump in there?
>> And I do think the chief
has done wonderful things
with have in his
transparency workshops.
But you have workshops
you talk about transparency
but transparency you've got
to be either totally transparent
or you're not going
to be transparent at all
and there's no middle ground.
So at the same time that you
have transparency workshops
you have in January
the shooting of housewife Diaz
and the police department
doesn't want
to release that video
and they say they don't
want to release the video
because the officer
was undercover.
Well you could block
out the officers face
and still show the video.
Then last week when
citizens review board
made recommendations
we didn't get all of
the recommendations.
We only got
part recommendations.
So transparency
has to be 360.
It can't be half of that or
you'll never build public trust.
>> One of the things that
you mentioned a second ago
was that you want people to
understand how the police works
and why they do
the things they do.
One of the big questions
a lot of people
have is why do police
have to resort more times
than not it seems
to the use of deadly force.
We have tasers and things
like that so many times
this deadly force
is used against minorities
not just black people
but other minorities.
It seems that way to outsiders
from your point of view
is that what it is.
>> Well what I can tell you
is when you say use more times
than not we have over
six hundred thousand contacts
close contacts with
citizens every day.
So regardless one officer
involved shooting is too many.
But when you say more often than
not that's a little misleading
because we work 24 hours a day
365 days a year.
We have contacts
with citizens all day.
So it's what we see.
It's what it sounds see
and it's the ones that
are the most important.
I mean someone losing their life
is the most important.
That's the most important piece.
But to say that is is
a little misleading
because we have 600000 contacts
with citizens a year
so that's a little misleading.
>> Ok, Robert?
>> And again I agree
with the assistant chief.
But like citizens review board
we can't just talk about
officer involved shootings.
There's cases that either
just go to the sergeant level
which are smaller infractions
to larger cases
they get heard by command staff
to cases that make it
to internal affairs
so the whole experience
of being disenfranchised
and profound isn't just
a police shooting.
It's also a traffic stop.
It's also being
at the bus terminal
and the transit police treat
people to a different way.
It's you know going
in the neighborhoods
that they don't believe
that you should be
in having a stop
that you can't justify.
Even though now we're do
an articulable reasons
for traffic stops
there is still there is a thing
so I don't want it all
to be confined to the two
or three police shootings.
This is a compensating problem
that African-Americans
and Latinos and LGBTQ
people go through daily
which raises the temperature
of any contact with
police does it not.
>> Yes it does.
>> Your organization
worked on reforms in 2012
on the Citizen Review Board
and those reforms led
to I'm told more cases
including the Scott case to be
granted fact finding hearings.
But in all the years
of its existence
the citizen review review board
has never sided
against the police
and in the most recent
situation with the Scott
shooting the review board
took the side of Chief Putney
saying that the officer involved
had the right to do what he did
was he was following policy
he was within it within policy
of doing what he did.
But they did that on a four
four split decision.
That's because the entire
complement of the board
wasn't there for I think
a slightly specious reasons.
So given their record has the
board always sided with police
because police have always been
right and done the right thing
or is there
a fundamental problem
with the Citizen Review Board?
>> There's a fundamental problem
at the citizen's review board.
First problem [applause] with
the citizens review board
is not an independent
police board it's a board
that you are making
that is hearing.
Following up on an internal
affairs investigation
and basically what
you're trying to do
is poke holes in
the internal affairs --
the internal
affairs decision.
It has no power to go in
and independently
investigate its own cases.
It has no subpoena power
to subpoena witnesses
to come before it.
And of course it's
a advisory board
so it can't make any decisions
to terminate
or discipline an officer.
How does the police review
the police advisory
board the Citizen Review Board.
>> How does police view
this as it were.
I mean I don't know
that I can answer
how police view
this citizens review board.
>> I mean they've never sided
against you. So
>> I mean well it's not about
whether they side against us
or whether they you know side
you know for us or against us.
I mean we are appreciative
of the fact
that there is
an independent group
that takes a look
at the investigation.
I mean the people
that are on that board
are not people that we selected
is not people
we put on the board.
So you know even though
people don't want to say
it's an independent board
we don't have you
know connections
we didn't have anything to do
with the people
that are on there.
And I will say this I do think
that from
the civil service board
to the Citizen Review Board
I do think you have to look
at anybody's motive
that wants to be on any board
and whether that is pro-police
and whether that is
against police officers.
So I do think that
that's one of the things
that needs to be looked at
and there's not really
many qualifications
to be on the board.
>> Will we ever hear
the full recommendations
that they put out following
the Keith Scutt shooting
will we ever see
those recommendations.
>> I mean I can't answer that
because I'm not
the chief of police
but I would tell you
that you know the untransparent
is what he does
so I can't tell you
what well actually I have
these I have a minute
left in this segment
and transparency
is one of the big things
to come out of this
shooting of last year.
>> And there's a new law
on the books
that prevents police
from releasing the videos
from body and dash cam
and even security cameras
not even elected officials
can see them
or without the permission
of a judge correct.
Is that a wise law given
the political tenor
and the and
the frustration seething
throughout the community.
>> Well I'm not going to say
that it's a wise law I mean
because the people that need
to see it immediately such
as the family the people
that are involved
they do have the ability
to petition
to see you know
whether it's it's right
for it to have to go
to a judge to be released.
I don't know but what I will
tell you is that if you
leave that in the hands
of individual police chiefs
and then you will have
a difference
and who releases
what and who doesn't.
So I think that there had
to be some type of law
with some type of requirements
as to when and how
you released a video.
So I do agree
that you have to have some type
of rules as to when you can.
>> You have 10 seconds.
That's not exactly
how the law is worded.
The law is worded
that the police chief
gets to make a decision.
If your image is captured
in the video
to release the video
within 36 hours
if you do not grant it
then you can ask a judge
to have the video released.
>> Robert Dawkins with SAVE
Coalition North Carolina
Vicky Foster assistant
chief of CMPD.
They'll return later
in the program as well.
Brenda Tindal a staff historian
at the Levine Museum
of the new self.
When we come back activists
and the role they played
in responding to the shooting
of Keith's got a year ago today
and the role
they've attempted to play
in changing the status quo
since that day.
This is Charlotte Talks on WFAE.
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