>> From 90.7 WFAE.

This is a special
edition of Charlotte Talks

a public conversation.

Unrest in the Queen City One
Year Later.

I'm Mike Collins, we're coming
to you from Spirit Square's

McGlohon Theater in
downtown Charlotte.

At this time a year ago
tonight September 20th 2016

just hours after the shooting
by police of Keith Lamont

Scott a group of demonstrators

began to gather
at Old Concord Road

in the University City area.

By the next night those protests
would filter into downtown

Charlotte building in intensity

eventually becoming a riot

or as some prefer
to call it resistance.

Whatever you call it.
The response to the shooting

puts Charlotte in
the national spotlight

in a way it had
never been before

and shook the city to its core.

It started conversations

in every nook and
cranny of our town.

Indeed across the state
that continued today

and which will certainly
continue over the next few hours

we all have a stake in where
these conversations take us

and that is why this program
is being broadcast statewide.

In addition to Charlotte
and hickory we're joined

by listeners
from Raleigh Durham

Chapel Hill Fayetteville
and points in between.

Thanks to our friends at WNC.

The purpose of this
special two hour

Charlotte talks is not to rehash
the events of last year

but to look more closely at what
has come from the shooting

and the disturbances and soul
searching that followed

as well as what is left to do.

However before we do
that a brief reminder

of what brought us here tonight.

>> This has been a difficult
couple of days

for the city of Charlotte.
Don't let them break the window.

>> Keith don't do it. Keith!
>> Get out the car!

Keith!
Keith don't you do it!

Keith! Keith! Keith!

Don't you...

[rapid gun shots]

Did you shoot him?

Did you shoot him!!

>> Handcuffs, handcuffs.

Handcuffs.

>> I'm not gonna come near you!

I'm gonna record you!

I'm not coming near you!

He'd better be alive!

>> Roughly 1000 protesters
marched through portions

of the university area
last night

and early this morning
in response

to a police shooting death
of an African-American man.

>> The victim is 43 year
old Keith Lamont

Scott Sahira Whiteside

a student at Central
Piedmont Community College

says she came out enjoying
the protest and is frustrated.

>> I can't watch another black
man on another Facebook page

another newscast
I can't keep watching it happen

and not nobody else
is doing nothing about it.

And just as the 11 o'clock
freight train past protesters

began throwing rocks
and water bottles.

>> And smashing in the windows.

Song so badly they had
to be towed from the scene.

And then once police
in riot gear

Dawn gas masks and helmets.

And began shooting rounds
of tear gas into the crowd.

>> About 100 people stood
in silent protest

in front of Bank
of America headquarters

at the end of the workday.

Signs read legalize being
black stop killing my brothers

and black lives matter.

As the crowd grew people
began chanting.

Then they marched us to police
headquarters for more chanting

and then to marshal park

where a larger and more
disorganized protest gathered.

>> There were hundreds
of protesters

on the street last night.

Originally it was about
the police shooting death

of a 43 year old
African-American

named Keith Lamont Scott.

But the anger over Scott's death
was quickly overtaken

when word of last
night's shooting

spread from person to person.

They again blamed the police.

The situation escalated.

More riot police were called
in banging their batons

against their shields
as they walked in line

before stopping
at an intersection

where protesters met them

yelling just inches
from the officers faces.

The police stood silently
for a time

then through
concussion grenades.

>> And tear gas canisters.

A steady breeze carried
the gas throughout the crowd.

>> The protesters retreated down
the street regrouped

and went back again and again.

>> Here comes round three
as the crowd is growing.

>> The Charlotte-Mecklenburg
police officer

who shot and killed an African
-American man in September

will not face any charges.
Mecklenburg County D.A.

said today all the evidence
supports officer

Brantly Vinson's claim
that he felt threatened

and that the fall of Mr. Scott

that we watched
is long simmering frustrations

boiled over.

>> I heard observers say
this is not a charlatan.

This is not the city
that we love but it is.

>> This is Charlotte.

This is where our friends
families neighbors

and colleagues felt
so passionate

that they marched on our streets
is a call for change.

But the fact that
criminal charges

are not appropriate
under the law

in this particular case does not
mean we can dismiss the concerns

expressed by those
who raise their voices

to raise the consciousness
of this community.

I think it's high time
that all of us recognize

that this is Charlotte

and not everyone experiences
the same Charlotte.

>> That last voice was that of
Mecklenburg County District

Attorney Andrew Murray

stating something that
might not have been obvious

to much of this city a year ago.

The fact that not everyone
experiences the same Charbel

is a realization that emerged
from last year's disturbances

and served as a wakeup call
to work toward change.

So tonight we examine three key
areas economic opportunity

and how it impacted the unrest
as well as what is being done

to address economic
disparities activism

not just during the disturbance

but in the days
and months afterward.

Was this the catalyst for people
to engage with others

in the city
to make improvements.

And of course policing which
here and around the country

has been undergoing scrutiny

what is being done
to build trust.

And Will reformer's work for
both police and the citizenry.

And that is where we start.

We're joined by Vicky Foster
assistant chief

of the Charlotte Mecklenburg
Police Department.

Thank you for
being here tonight.

We thank you for having me.

Robert Dawkins's the state
organizer for SAVE Coalition

and see that's a nonprofit
founded in 2013

to promote police
accountability.

Welcome back.
Thanks Mike.

And because the events
of last year

did not spring out of nowhere

because they have
deep seeded roots

we'll be hearing throughout
the program from Brenda Tindle

she is the staff historian

at the Levine Museum
of the new self.

Welcome back to you as well.
Thank you so much for having me.

Vickie let me start
with you Vicky Foster

due to the rash of violence
or the rash of videos

I should say that are
usually taken by camera phones

by bystanders to these
incidents involving police.

The nation at large
has been exposed over time

to the confrontations between
police and usually black men

and we're seeing something that
the black community has known

about for a very long time

which came as news
to many people

who are not in that community.

And of course the Scott
shooting followed on the heels

of many of those incidents last
year that were on television.

>> So how would you assess
your department's Europe

Department's interactions with
the African-American community

in our city then and now.

Well I think you know after
the riots we took a look at.

>> What we've always known
is that there is still distrust

within the African-American
community.

And so what we learned
was that it was a little deeper

than what we thought.

And our focus since then
has been on continuing

to build relationships

in our African-American
communities.

And so we've done
a lot of different things.

And some of those things
have worked really well

and some of those things
were continuing to improve.

You know one of the things that
we did right after the riots

where we started construction
conversation teams

what we learned was
that people wanted to be heard

and people were not being heard
at that particular time.

And we learned that that was
one of the key elements

is that people want to be heard.

They want to be able
to express their feelings.

And so these teams now
if we have an incident

we have 40 plus officers trained

that actually deploy
to the actual incident

and they are the ones
that talk to citizens

and try to tell them
you know OK what's going on

and try to let off

and let citizens understand
exactly what's going on

because at that particular time

they're not able to get
the answers that they want.

>> So we've had two
black police chiefs.

You're the assistant
police chief.

You're also African-American.

Does it what does what
when things like this happen

when you see these
shootings on television

and when you and you're at
the head of your own departments

What do you think what
goes through your mind.

>> Well you know for me
and I can only speak for myself

I mean any time I see
a officer involved shooting

whether it's CMPD
or across the country.

I mean obviously
I'm disheartened.

I do think that there
are shootings that.

Have really really caused

some serious problems
in our community

because there were not
what people would consider

to be justice.

And so I would say that every
time I see that I'm concerned

depending on the circumstances
of that actual particular

shooting you know
I have questions

just as well as anybody else.

You know I'm still human
even though I'm a police officer

I'm still human.

So I'm always disheartened
by officer involved shootings.

>> If there has been
anything good

that has come out
of this shooting

and all the other shootings

it is that there is a raised
public awareness about things

that have been well-known in
the African-American community.

Robert Dawkins
one of those things

is profiling
a lot of African-Americans

allege that they're pulled over
by police

or follow through department
stores by security guards

because of the color
of their skin.

And your organization
SAVE Coalition and C

has been working
on what you are working

on ending what you call
discriminatory profiling.

How prevalent would you say

that has been in Charlotte
and throughout North Carolina.

>> It's been prevalent
since 1865.

And every city in every state
of the country.

But what we found

from what Charlotte found
from Keith Lamont Scotts

when African-Americans
is not known for years

that there is a basis
for us to say

that the that

there is mistrusts with us
from the police department.

I mean this goes back from you
know slavery and slave catchers

to peonage to all of
the other things

that the police department
and the sheriff's department

were the legalized people

to round up African-Americans

and to punish African-Americans

and I think that
the police department

is making an attempt
to fix that history.

But every time more incidents
like this happens it pulls

that Band-Aid off again.

>> But you work around
the state of them.

If I understand this correctly
you work around the state.

So are there areas of the state
that are more receptive

to seeing this as a problem
that has been ongoing.

No. I want to work to fix it.

Are there areas of the state
reluctance to do that.

>> So there are cities
in the state

that may pay more attention

and may pay more lip service
to it like ash

fell to Chapel Hill at Durham.

But at the same time
they pay more attention to it.

They speak more about it
and within the same off

somebody that's African-American

will still be be arrested
or shot by police.

So I don't think that that's
helped fix the problem either.

>> Some say this stems from
racism some say it stems from

fear perhaps it stems from both
there seems to be a fear

in some of the people

in the public
of African-American men

in particular
particularly at night

and and in certain situations.

Brenda you were at the Levine
Museum of the new stuff

you've done lots of exhibits on
this you've done more programs

probably than we have
on this issue. Where

>> does this suspicion
of African-Americans

and this fear of
African-American men come from.

>> Historically historically
I think to to your point

that that is
really deeply embedded

in the history of slavery.

And I would argue that you know
the 13th amendment in particular

which was meant to provide
the constitutional teeth

for the dismantling
of the institution of slavery

that the 13th Amendment
actually has a loophole

that criminalizes
black men in particular.

And so when we talk
about the ways in which

that suspicion
is sort of nurtured.

I mean it's in our legislation
it is in our social mores.

It is in it's in the ground.

Most of us don't invention
of the contemporary period.

>> Right. I would wager
that most of us

don't know that
about the Constitution.

So if we don't know what how is
it that we have it in our genes.

>> I don't know
that I'm suggesting

that it's in our genes
what I'm suggesting

is that the laws often inform
the social realities.

>> Is there any
empirical evidence

historically speaking
that justifies the sphere.

>> Absolutely not.

>> I knew you would say it

but I wanted
to ask the question.

Kurt Putney's Deputy
Chief Kerr Putney

promised to take steps
to ease the tensions

that we saw last year
with these protests and riots.

The city hired an organization
called the police foundation

a group out of Washington
to study the department.

Their report has yet
to be released I'm told.

Putney's says that CMPD
has changed nonetheless.

Critics say reforms
haven't happened so

while we've been waiting
for this Police Foundation

report what has CMPD done.

Vicki Foster to improve things.

>> So you know as I started
talking about

just constructing teams

you know we did
transparency workshops.

What we found is that a lot
of people felt on the rise

that we weren't
being transparent.

They felt that we were
not selling everything

and so we started doing
transparency workshops

which are for our citizens it is
an abbreviated Citizen's Academy

where they can come out
and learn why we do

what we do learn
about our policies

learn about our procedures

so they can understand
sometimes not always

because no matter
what people are not going

to always understand
why we do what we do.

But we did do those workshops

and we are continuing
to do those.

We've had over 100 citizens
to go through those.

We implemented
de-escalation training

which we have always done
de-escalation training.

It was within other areas
of our training.

We now have a specific block
that is two hours

that all officers
have gone through

for de-escalation training.

On top of you know the Chief
does so many community forms.

He's out in the community
as often as he possibly can

and they're very open

and candid it forms
if you've ever attended

where he gives people
the opportunity

to ask what they want to ask.

Is it making a difference
do you think.

I think he's making
a big difference

because whenever you
are able to ask

the leader of an organization

whatever you want to ask
and you get an answer.

I absolutely think
he's making a difference.

>> Go ahead Robert, you
want to jump in there?

>> And I do think the chief
has done wonderful things

with have in his
transparency workshops.

But you have workshops
you talk about transparency

but transparency you've got
to be either totally transparent

or you're not going
to be transparent at all

and there's no middle ground.

So at the same time that you
have transparency workshops

you have in January
the shooting of housewife Diaz

and the police department

doesn't want
to release that video

and they say they don't
want to release the video

because the officer
was undercover.

Well you could block
out the officers face

and still show the video.

Then last week when
citizens review board

made recommendations

we didn't get all of
the recommendations.

We only got
part recommendations.

So transparency
has to be 360.

It can't be half of that or
you'll never build public trust.

>> One of the things that
you mentioned a second ago

was that you want people to
understand how the police works

and why they do
the things they do.

One of the big questions
a lot of people

have is why do police
have to resort more times

than not it seems
to the use of deadly force.

We have tasers and things
like that so many times

this deadly force
is used against minorities

not just black people
but other minorities.

It seems that way to outsiders
from your point of view

is that what it is.

>> Well what I can tell you
is when you say use more times

than not we have over
six hundred thousand contacts

close contacts with
citizens every day.

So regardless one officer
involved shooting is too many.

But when you say more often than
not that's a little misleading

because we work 24 hours a day
365 days a year.

We have contacts
with citizens all day.

So it's what we see.
It's what it sounds see

and it's the ones that
are the most important.

I mean someone losing their life
is the most important.

That's the most important piece.

But to say that is is
a little misleading

because we have 600000 contacts
with citizens a year

so that's a little misleading.

>> Ok, Robert?

>> And again I agree
with the assistant chief.

But like citizens review board

we can't just talk about
officer involved shootings.

There's cases that either
just go to the sergeant level

which are smaller infractions
to larger cases

they get heard by command staff

to cases that make it
to internal affairs

so the whole experience
of being disenfranchised

and profound isn't just
a police shooting.

It's also a traffic stop.

It's also being
at the bus terminal

and the transit police treat
people to a different way.

It's you know going
in the neighborhoods

that they don't believe
that you should be

in having a stop
that you can't justify.

Even though now we're do
an articulable reasons

for traffic stops

there is still there is a thing

so I don't want it all
to be confined to the two

or three police shootings.

This is a compensating problem

that African-Americans
and Latinos and LGBTQ

people go through daily

which raises the temperature

of any contact with
police does it not.

>> Yes it does.

>> Your organization
worked on reforms in 2012

on the Citizen Review Board

and those reforms led
to I'm told more cases

including the Scott case to be
granted fact finding hearings.

But in all the years
of its existence

the citizen review review board

has never sided
against the police

and in the most recent
situation with the Scott

shooting the review board
took the side of Chief Putney

saying that the officer involved
had the right to do what he did

was he was following policy

he was within it within policy
of doing what he did.

But they did that on a four
four split decision.

That's because the entire
complement of the board

wasn't there for I think
a slightly specious reasons.

So given their record has the
board always sided with police

because police have always been
right and done the right thing

or is there
a fundamental problem

with the Citizen Review Board?

>> There's a fundamental problem
at the citizen's review board.

First problem [applause] with
the citizens review board

is not an independent
police board it's a board

that you are making
that is hearing.

Following up on an internal
affairs investigation

and basically what
you're trying to do

is poke holes in
the internal affairs --

the internal
affairs decision.

It has no power to go in

and independently
investigate its own cases.

It has no subpoena power

to subpoena witnesses
to come before it.

And of course it's
a advisory board

so it can't make any decisions

to terminate

or discipline an officer.

How does the police review
the police advisory

board the Citizen Review Board.

>> How does police view
this as it were.

I mean I don't know
that I can answer

how police view

this citizens review board.

>> I mean they've never sided
against you. So

>> I mean well it's not about
whether they side against us

or whether they you know side
you know for us or against us.

I mean we are appreciative
of the fact

that there is
an independent group

that takes a look
at the investigation.

I mean the people
that are on that board

are not people that we selected

is not people
we put on the board.

So you know even though
people don't want to say

it's an independent board
we don't have you

know connections
we didn't have anything to do

with the people
that are on there.

And I will say this I do think

that from
the civil service board

to the Citizen Review Board

I do think you have to look
at anybody's motive

that wants to be on any board

and whether that is pro-police

and whether that is
against police officers.

So I do think that

that's one of the things
that needs to be looked at

and there's not really
many qualifications

to be on the board.

>> Will we ever hear
the full recommendations

that they put out following
the Keith Scutt shooting

will we ever see
those recommendations.

>> I mean I can't answer that

because I'm not
the chief of police

but I would tell you
that you know the untransparent

is what he does

so I can't tell you
what well actually I have

these I have a minute
left in this segment

and transparency
is one of the big things

to come out of this
shooting of last year.

>> And there's a new law
on the books

that prevents police
from releasing the videos

from body and dash cam
and even security cameras

not even elected officials
can see them

or without the permission
of a judge correct.

Is that a wise law given
the political tenor

and the and
the frustration seething

throughout the community.

>> Well I'm not going to say
that it's a wise law I mean

because the people that need
to see it immediately such

as the family the people
that are involved

they do have the ability
to petition

to see you know

whether it's it's right

for it to have to go
to a judge to be released.

I don't know but what I will
tell you is that if you

leave that in the hands
of individual police chiefs

and then you will have
a difference

and who releases
what and who doesn't.

So I think that there had
to be some type of law

with some type of requirements

as to when and how
you released a video.

So I do agree

that you have to have some type
of rules as to when you can.

>> You have 10 seconds.

That's not exactly
how the law is worded.

The law is worded
that the police chief

gets to make a decision.

If your image is captured
in the video

to release the video
within 36 hours

if you do not grant it

then you can ask a judge
to have the video released.

>> Robert Dawkins with SAVE
Coalition North Carolina

Vicky Foster assistant
chief of CMPD.

They'll return later
in the program as well.

Brenda Tindal a staff historian

at the Levine Museum
of the new self.

When we come back activists
and the role they played

in responding to the shooting
of Keith's got a year ago today

and the role
they've attempted to play

in changing the status quo
since that day.

This is Charlotte Talks on WFAE.

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