1 00:00:06,639 --> 00:00:08,375 >> From 90.7 WFAE. 2 00:00:08,475 --> 00:00:10,210 This is a special edition of Charlotte Talks 3 00:00:10,310 --> 00:00:12,278 a public conversation. 4 00:00:12,379 --> 00:00:16,649 Unrest in the Queen City One Year Later. 5 00:00:16,750 --> 00:00:18,118 I'm Mike Collins, we're coming to you from Spirit Square's 6 00:00:18,218 --> 00:00:20,453 McGlohon Theater in downtown Charlotte. 7 00:00:20,553 --> 00:00:24,858 At this time a year ago tonight September 20th 2016 8 00:00:24,958 --> 00:00:28,228 just hours after the shooting by police of Keith Lamont 9 00:00:28,328 --> 00:00:30,497 Scott a group of demonstrators 10 00:00:30,597 --> 00:00:32,799 began to gather at Old Concord Road 11 00:00:32,899 --> 00:00:34,401 in the University City area. 12 00:00:35,201 --> 00:00:38,271 By the next night those protests would filter into downtown 13 00:00:38,371 --> 00:00:40,607 Charlotte building in intensity 14 00:00:40,707 --> 00:00:42,675 eventually becoming a riot 15 00:00:42,776 --> 00:00:45,578 or as some prefer to call it resistance. 16 00:00:46,279 --> 00:00:48,481 Whatever you call it. The response to the shooting 17 00:00:48,581 --> 00:00:50,984 puts Charlotte in the national spotlight 18 00:00:51,084 --> 00:00:52,852 in a way it had never been before 19 00:00:52,952 --> 00:00:55,288 and shook the city to its core. 20 00:00:55,922 --> 00:00:57,290 It started conversations 21 00:00:57,390 --> 00:00:58,992 in every nook and cranny of our town. 22 00:00:59,092 --> 00:01:01,995 Indeed across the state that continued today 23 00:01:02,095 --> 00:01:05,031 and which will certainly continue over the next few hours 24 00:01:05,865 --> 00:01:09,269 we all have a stake in where these conversations take us 25 00:01:09,369 --> 00:01:12,939 and that is why this program is being broadcast statewide. 26 00:01:13,473 --> 00:01:16,276 In addition to Charlotte and hickory we're joined 27 00:01:16,376 --> 00:01:18,511 by listeners from Raleigh Durham 28 00:01:18,611 --> 00:01:21,514 Chapel Hill Fayetteville and points in between. 29 00:01:21,614 --> 00:01:23,850 Thanks to our friends at WNC. 30 00:01:24,851 --> 00:01:26,853 The purpose of this special two hour 31 00:01:26,953 --> 00:01:30,123 Charlotte talks is not to rehash the events of last year 32 00:01:30,223 --> 00:01:33,993 but to look more closely at what has come from the shooting 33 00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:36,763 and the disturbances and soul searching that followed 34 00:01:37,330 --> 00:01:38,865 as well as what is left to do. 35 00:01:39,566 --> 00:01:42,769 However before we do that a brief reminder 36 00:01:42,869 --> 00:01:44,337 of what brought us here tonight. 37 00:01:45,905 --> 00:01:48,875 >> This has been a difficult couple of days 38 00:01:48,975 --> 00:01:51,478 for the city of Charlotte. Don't let them break the window. 39 00:01:56,182 --> 00:02:02,122 >> Keith don't do it. Keith! >> Get out the car! 40 00:02:03,389 --> 00:02:05,725 Keith! Keith don't you do it! 41 00:02:05,825 --> 00:02:08,361 Keith! Keith! Keith! 42 00:02:08,461 --> 00:02:09,362 Don't you... 43 00:02:09,462 --> 00:02:13,166 [rapid gun shots] 44 00:02:13,266 --> 00:02:14,667 Did you shoot him? 45 00:02:14,767 --> 00:02:16,669 Did you shoot him!! 46 00:02:16,769 --> 00:02:18,171 >> Handcuffs, handcuffs. 47 00:02:18,271 --> 00:02:19,272 Handcuffs. 48 00:02:25,311 --> 00:02:26,579 >> I'm not gonna come near you! 49 00:02:27,046 --> 00:02:28,414 I'm gonna record you! 50 00:02:28,515 --> 00:02:30,150 I'm not coming near you! 51 00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:31,584 He'd better be alive! 52 00:02:31,684 --> 00:02:34,020 >> Roughly 1000 protesters marched through portions 53 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,989 of the university area last night 54 00:02:36,089 --> 00:02:37,390 and early this morning in response 55 00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:40,293 to a police shooting death of an African-American man. 56 00:02:40,393 --> 00:02:42,262 >> The victim is 43 year old Keith Lamont 57 00:02:42,362 --> 00:02:44,130 Scott Sahira Whiteside 58 00:02:44,230 --> 00:02:46,633 a student at Central Piedmont Community College 59 00:02:46,733 --> 00:02:49,969 says she came out enjoying the protest and is frustrated. 60 00:02:50,069 --> 00:02:53,706 >> I can't watch another black man on another Facebook page 61 00:02:53,806 --> 00:02:56,509 another newscast I can't keep watching it happen 62 00:02:56,609 --> 00:02:59,112 and not nobody else is doing nothing about it. 63 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,917 And just as the 11 o'clock freight train past protesters 64 00:03:04,017 --> 00:03:05,952 began throwing rocks and water bottles. 65 00:03:06,886 --> 00:03:08,121 >> And smashing in the windows. 66 00:03:09,422 --> 00:03:11,691 Song so badly they had to be towed from the scene. 67 00:03:12,759 --> 00:03:15,195 And then once police in riot gear 68 00:03:15,295 --> 00:03:17,163 Dawn gas masks and helmets. 69 00:03:18,698 --> 00:03:20,967 And began shooting rounds of tear gas into the crowd. 70 00:03:23,703 --> 00:03:25,772 >> About 100 people stood in silent protest 71 00:03:25,872 --> 00:03:27,540 in front of Bank of America headquarters 72 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:29,242 at the end of the workday. 73 00:03:29,342 --> 00:03:32,845 Signs read legalize being black stop killing my brothers 74 00:03:32,946 --> 00:03:34,314 and black lives matter. 75 00:03:34,414 --> 00:03:40,320 As the crowd grew people began chanting. 76 00:03:42,021 --> 00:03:45,425 Then they marched us to police headquarters for more chanting 77 00:03:45,525 --> 00:03:46,726 and then to marshal park 78 00:03:46,826 --> 00:03:49,362 where a larger and more disorganized protest gathered. 79 00:03:53,266 --> 00:03:54,767 >> There were hundreds of protesters 80 00:03:54,867 --> 00:03:56,069 on the street last night. 81 00:03:56,169 --> 00:03:58,438 Originally it was about the police shooting death 82 00:03:58,538 --> 00:04:00,873 of a 43 year old African-American 83 00:04:00,974 --> 00:04:02,642 named Keith Lamont Scott. 84 00:04:02,742 --> 00:04:05,778 But the anger over Scott's death was quickly overtaken 85 00:04:05,878 --> 00:04:07,647 when word of last night's shooting 86 00:04:07,747 --> 00:04:09,849 spread from person to person. 87 00:04:09,949 --> 00:04:11,951 They again blamed the police. 88 00:04:14,554 --> 00:04:17,090 The situation escalated. 89 00:04:20,526 --> 00:04:23,229 More riot police were called in banging their batons 90 00:04:23,329 --> 00:04:25,365 against their shields as they walked in line 91 00:04:25,465 --> 00:04:27,267 before stopping at an intersection 92 00:04:27,367 --> 00:04:29,068 where protesters met them 93 00:04:29,168 --> 00:04:32,105 yelling just inches from the officers faces. 94 00:04:34,274 --> 00:04:36,943 The police stood silently for a time 95 00:04:37,043 --> 00:04:38,845 then through concussion grenades. 96 00:04:41,781 --> 00:04:43,449 >> And tear gas canisters. 97 00:04:46,119 --> 00:04:48,688 A steady breeze carried the gas throughout the crowd. 98 00:04:53,726 --> 00:04:55,228 >> The protesters retreated down the street regrouped 99 00:04:55,328 --> 00:04:57,363 and went back again and again. 100 00:04:57,463 --> 00:05:00,266 >> Here comes round three as the crowd is growing. 101 00:05:01,634 --> 00:05:03,236 >> The Charlotte-Mecklenburg police officer 102 00:05:03,336 --> 00:05:05,638 who shot and killed an African -American man in September 103 00:05:05,738 --> 00:05:08,775 will not face any charges. Mecklenburg County D.A. 104 00:05:08,875 --> 00:05:11,177 said today all the evidence supports officer 105 00:05:11,277 --> 00:05:13,546 Brantly Vinson's claim that he felt threatened 106 00:05:13,646 --> 00:05:14,981 and that the fall of Mr. Scott 107 00:05:15,081 --> 00:05:17,450 that we watched is long simmering frustrations 108 00:05:17,550 --> 00:05:19,552 boiled over. 109 00:05:20,486 --> 00:05:23,423 >> I heard observers say this is not a charlatan. 110 00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:28,294 This is not the city that we love but it is. 111 00:05:28,928 --> 00:05:30,196 >> This is Charlotte. 112 00:05:31,164 --> 00:05:34,067 This is where our friends families neighbors 113 00:05:34,167 --> 00:05:36,302 and colleagues felt so passionate 114 00:05:36,402 --> 00:05:38,671 that they marched on our streets is a call for change. 115 00:05:38,771 --> 00:05:40,340 But the fact that criminal charges 116 00:05:40,873 --> 00:05:43,309 are not appropriate under the law 117 00:05:43,409 --> 00:05:46,579 in this particular case does not mean we can dismiss the concerns 118 00:05:46,679 --> 00:05:49,015 expressed by those who raise their voices 119 00:05:49,115 --> 00:05:51,451 to raise the consciousness of this community. 120 00:05:52,618 --> 00:05:54,787 I think it's high time that all of us recognize 121 00:05:54,887 --> 00:05:56,289 that this is Charlotte 122 00:05:56,389 --> 00:05:58,725 and not everyone experiences the same Charlotte. 123 00:05:59,726 --> 00:06:02,228 >> That last voice was that of Mecklenburg County District 124 00:06:02,328 --> 00:06:03,830 Attorney Andrew Murray 125 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:06,466 stating something that might not have been obvious 126 00:06:06,566 --> 00:06:08,835 to much of this city a year ago. 127 00:06:09,402 --> 00:06:12,505 The fact that not everyone experiences the same Charbel 128 00:06:12,605 --> 00:06:16,609 is a realization that emerged from last year's disturbances 129 00:06:16,709 --> 00:06:19,345 and served as a wakeup call to work toward change. 130 00:06:19,445 --> 00:06:23,683 So tonight we examine three key areas economic opportunity 131 00:06:23,783 --> 00:06:26,819 and how it impacted the unrest as well as what is being done 132 00:06:26,919 --> 00:06:30,089 to address economic disparities activism 133 00:06:30,189 --> 00:06:31,824 not just during the disturbance 134 00:06:31,924 --> 00:06:34,127 but in the days and months afterward. 135 00:06:34,227 --> 00:06:36,996 Was this the catalyst for people to engage with others 136 00:06:37,096 --> 00:06:38,931 in the city to make improvements. 137 00:06:39,031 --> 00:06:42,402 And of course policing which here and around the country 138 00:06:42,502 --> 00:06:44,303 has been undergoing scrutiny 139 00:06:44,404 --> 00:06:46,172 what is being done to build trust. 140 00:06:46,272 --> 00:06:50,576 And Will reformer's work for both police and the citizenry. 141 00:06:50,676 --> 00:06:52,345 And that is where we start. 142 00:06:52,445 --> 00:06:54,981 We're joined by Vicky Foster assistant chief 143 00:06:55,081 --> 00:06:56,916 of the Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department. 144 00:06:57,016 --> 00:06:58,551 Thank you for being here tonight. 145 00:06:58,651 --> 00:07:00,019 We thank you for having me. 146 00:07:00,119 --> 00:07:03,322 Robert Dawkins's the state organizer for SAVE Coalition 147 00:07:03,423 --> 00:07:06,459 and see that's a nonprofit founded in 2013 148 00:07:06,559 --> 00:07:08,194 to promote police accountability. 149 00:07:08,294 --> 00:07:09,762 Welcome back. Thanks Mike. 150 00:07:09,862 --> 00:07:11,197 And because the events of last year 151 00:07:11,297 --> 00:07:12,999 did not spring out of nowhere 152 00:07:13,099 --> 00:07:14,967 because they have deep seeded roots 153 00:07:15,067 --> 00:07:17,670 we'll be hearing throughout the program from Brenda Tindle 154 00:07:17,770 --> 00:07:19,439 she is the staff historian 155 00:07:19,539 --> 00:07:21,674 at the Levine Museum of the new self. 156 00:07:21,774 --> 00:07:24,277 Welcome back to you as well. Thank you so much for having me. 157 00:07:24,377 --> 00:07:26,412 Vickie let me start with you Vicky Foster 158 00:07:26,512 --> 00:07:29,816 due to the rash of violence or the rash of videos 159 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:32,452 I should say that are usually taken by camera phones 160 00:07:32,552 --> 00:07:35,154 by bystanders to these incidents involving police. 161 00:07:35,688 --> 00:07:37,924 The nation at large has been exposed over time 162 00:07:38,024 --> 00:07:42,495 to the confrontations between police and usually black men 163 00:07:42,595 --> 00:07:44,864 and we're seeing something that the black community has known 164 00:07:44,964 --> 00:07:46,365 about for a very long time 165 00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:48,534 which came as news to many people 166 00:07:48,634 --> 00:07:50,236 who are not in that community. 167 00:07:50,336 --> 00:07:52,738 And of course the Scott shooting followed on the heels 168 00:07:52,839 --> 00:07:56,476 of many of those incidents last year that were on television. 169 00:07:57,677 --> 00:08:01,614 >> So how would you assess your department's Europe 170 00:08:01,714 --> 00:08:05,718 Department's interactions with the African-American community 171 00:08:05,818 --> 00:08:07,987 in our city then and now. 172 00:08:08,955 --> 00:08:12,658 Well I think you know after the riots we took a look at. 173 00:08:13,192 --> 00:08:16,262 >> What we've always known is that there is still distrust 174 00:08:16,362 --> 00:08:17,897 within the African-American community. 175 00:08:18,431 --> 00:08:21,901 And so what we learned was that it was a little deeper 176 00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:23,569 than what we thought. 177 00:08:23,669 --> 00:08:27,206 And our focus since then has been on continuing 178 00:08:27,306 --> 00:08:28,841 to build relationships 179 00:08:28,941 --> 00:08:31,110 in our African-American communities. 180 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:33,646 And so we've done a lot of different things. 181 00:08:34,180 --> 00:08:36,682 And some of those things have worked really well 182 00:08:37,283 --> 00:08:39,685 and some of those things were continuing to improve. 183 00:08:40,253 --> 00:08:42,488 You know one of the things that we did right after the riots 184 00:08:42,588 --> 00:08:45,925 where we started construction conversation teams 185 00:08:46,025 --> 00:08:48,661 what we learned was that people wanted to be heard 186 00:08:49,228 --> 00:08:52,398 and people were not being heard at that particular time. 187 00:08:53,065 --> 00:08:55,768 And we learned that that was one of the key elements 188 00:08:55,868 --> 00:08:57,003 is that people want to be heard. 189 00:08:57,103 --> 00:09:00,473 They want to be able to express their feelings. 190 00:09:00,573 --> 00:09:03,442 And so these teams now if we have an incident 191 00:09:04,076 --> 00:09:06,312 we have 40 plus officers trained 192 00:09:06,412 --> 00:09:09,015 that actually deploy to the actual incident 193 00:09:09,115 --> 00:09:12,218 and they are the ones that talk to citizens 194 00:09:12,318 --> 00:09:14,887 and try to tell them you know OK what's going on 195 00:09:14,987 --> 00:09:16,689 and try to let off 196 00:09:16,789 --> 00:09:19,559 and let citizens understand exactly what's going on 197 00:09:19,659 --> 00:09:21,294 because at that particular time 198 00:09:21,394 --> 00:09:23,529 they're not able to get the answers that they want. 199 00:09:24,397 --> 00:09:26,499 >> So we've had two black police chiefs. 200 00:09:26,599 --> 00:09:27,900 You're the assistant police chief. 201 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,702 You're also African-American. 202 00:09:29,802 --> 00:09:32,138 Does it what does what when things like this happen 203 00:09:32,238 --> 00:09:34,073 when you see these shootings on television 204 00:09:34,173 --> 00:09:36,542 and when you and you're at the head of your own departments 205 00:09:36,642 --> 00:09:38,044 What do you think what goes through your mind. 206 00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:41,948 >> Well you know for me and I can only speak for myself 207 00:09:42,048 --> 00:09:45,718 I mean any time I see a officer involved shooting 208 00:09:45,818 --> 00:09:48,020 whether it's CMPD or across the country. 209 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,755 I mean obviously I'm disheartened. 210 00:09:50,623 --> 00:09:53,225 I do think that there are shootings that. 211 00:09:53,326 --> 00:09:54,961 Have really really caused 212 00:09:55,061 --> 00:09:56,762 some serious problems in our community 213 00:09:56,862 --> 00:09:59,732 because there were not what people would consider 214 00:09:59,832 --> 00:10:01,267 to be justice. 215 00:10:01,367 --> 00:10:04,837 And so I would say that every time I see that I'm concerned 216 00:10:05,705 --> 00:10:08,207 depending on the circumstances of that actual particular 217 00:10:08,307 --> 00:10:10,109 shooting you know I have questions 218 00:10:10,209 --> 00:10:11,711 just as well as anybody else. 219 00:10:11,811 --> 00:10:14,413 You know I'm still human even though I'm a police officer 220 00:10:14,513 --> 00:10:15,915 I'm still human. 221 00:10:16,015 --> 00:10:19,085 So I'm always disheartened by officer involved shootings. 222 00:10:19,185 --> 00:10:20,720 >> If there has been anything good 223 00:10:20,820 --> 00:10:22,188 that has come out of this shooting 224 00:10:22,288 --> 00:10:23,623 and all the other shootings 225 00:10:23,723 --> 00:10:26,959 it is that there is a raised public awareness about things 226 00:10:27,059 --> 00:10:29,328 that have been well-known in the African-American community. 227 00:10:29,428 --> 00:10:30,863 Robert Dawkins one of those things 228 00:10:30,963 --> 00:10:33,866 is profiling a lot of African-Americans 229 00:10:33,966 --> 00:10:35,701 allege that they're pulled over by police 230 00:10:35,801 --> 00:10:37,903 or follow through department stores by security guards 231 00:10:38,004 --> 00:10:40,306 because of the color of their skin. 232 00:10:40,406 --> 00:10:43,409 And your organization SAVE Coalition and C 233 00:10:43,509 --> 00:10:45,344 has been working on what you are working 234 00:10:45,444 --> 00:10:49,448 on ending what you call discriminatory profiling. 235 00:10:49,548 --> 00:10:50,916 How prevalent would you say 236 00:10:51,017 --> 00:10:54,253 that has been in Charlotte and throughout North Carolina. 237 00:10:54,353 --> 00:10:57,556 >> It's been prevalent since 1865. 238 00:10:57,657 --> 00:10:59,892 And every city in every state of the country. 239 00:11:02,428 --> 00:11:06,265 But what we found 240 00:11:06,365 --> 00:11:10,036 from what Charlotte found from Keith Lamont Scotts 241 00:11:10,136 --> 00:11:12,538 when African-Americans is not known for years 242 00:11:12,638 --> 00:11:14,874 that there is a basis for us to say 243 00:11:14,974 --> 00:11:16,809 that the that 244 00:11:16,909 --> 00:11:20,913 there is mistrusts with us from the police department. 245 00:11:21,013 --> 00:11:26,485 I mean this goes back from you know slavery and slave catchers 246 00:11:26,585 --> 00:11:30,122 to peonage to all of the other things 247 00:11:30,222 --> 00:11:32,324 that the police department and the sheriff's department 248 00:11:32,425 --> 00:11:36,362 were the legalized people 249 00:11:36,462 --> 00:11:38,164 to round up African-Americans 250 00:11:38,264 --> 00:11:39,632 and to punish African-Americans 251 00:11:39,732 --> 00:11:41,434 and I think that the police department 252 00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:45,171 is making an attempt to fix that history. 253 00:11:45,771 --> 00:11:49,608 But every time more incidents like this happens it pulls 254 00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:50,843 that Band-Aid off again. 255 00:11:50,943 --> 00:11:52,445 >> But you work around the state of them. 256 00:11:52,545 --> 00:11:54,780 If I understand this correctly you work around the state. 257 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,316 So are there areas of the state that are more receptive 258 00:11:57,416 --> 00:12:00,453 to seeing this as a problem that has been ongoing. 259 00:12:00,553 --> 00:12:02,421 No. I want to work to fix it. 260 00:12:02,521 --> 00:12:05,591 Are there areas of the state reluctance to do that. 261 00:12:05,691 --> 00:12:07,893 >> So there are cities in the state 262 00:12:07,993 --> 00:12:09,729 that may pay more attention 263 00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:14,333 and may pay more lip service to it like ash 264 00:12:14,433 --> 00:12:16,769 fell to Chapel Hill at Durham. 265 00:12:16,869 --> 00:12:19,405 But at the same time they pay more attention to it. 266 00:12:19,505 --> 00:12:22,007 They speak more about it and within the same off 267 00:12:22,108 --> 00:12:23,609 somebody that's African-American 268 00:12:23,709 --> 00:12:28,314 will still be be arrested or shot by police. 269 00:12:28,414 --> 00:12:31,550 So I don't think that that's helped fix the problem either. 270 00:12:33,686 --> 00:12:36,055 >> Some say this stems from racism some say it stems from 271 00:12:36,155 --> 00:12:38,824 fear perhaps it stems from both there seems to be a fear 272 00:12:38,924 --> 00:12:40,126 in some of the people 273 00:12:40,226 --> 00:12:42,828 in the public of African-American men 274 00:12:42,928 --> 00:12:44,597 in particular particularly at night 275 00:12:44,697 --> 00:12:46,265 and and in certain situations. 276 00:12:46,999 --> 00:12:48,901 Brenda you were at the Levine Museum of the new stuff 277 00:12:49,001 --> 00:12:52,705 you've done lots of exhibits on this you've done more programs 278 00:12:52,805 --> 00:12:56,175 probably than we have on this issue. Where 279 00:12:56,275 --> 00:12:59,445 >> does this suspicion of African-Americans 280 00:12:59,545 --> 00:13:04,116 and this fear of African-American men come from. 281 00:13:04,216 --> 00:13:10,055 >> Historically historically I think to to your point 282 00:13:10,589 --> 00:13:13,359 that that is really deeply embedded 283 00:13:13,459 --> 00:13:15,394 in the history of slavery. 284 00:13:16,095 --> 00:13:21,066 And I would argue that you know the 13th amendment in particular 285 00:13:21,167 --> 00:13:25,771 which was meant to provide the constitutional teeth 286 00:13:26,405 --> 00:13:30,409 for the dismantling of the institution of slavery 287 00:13:30,509 --> 00:13:33,145 that the 13th Amendment actually has a loophole 288 00:13:33,245 --> 00:13:37,383 that criminalizes black men in particular. 289 00:13:38,417 --> 00:13:40,953 And so when we talk about the ways in which 290 00:13:41,053 --> 00:13:45,057 that suspicion is sort of nurtured. 291 00:13:45,157 --> 00:13:51,063 I mean it's in our legislation it is in our social mores. 292 00:13:51,163 --> 00:13:54,166 It is in it's in the ground. 293 00:13:55,267 --> 00:13:58,237 Most of us don't invention of the contemporary period. 294 00:13:58,337 --> 00:13:59,805 >> Right. I would wager that most of us 295 00:13:59,905 --> 00:14:02,107 don't know that about the Constitution. 296 00:14:02,208 --> 00:14:07,379 So if we don't know what how is it that we have it in our genes. 297 00:14:10,115 --> 00:14:11,550 >> I don't know that I'm suggesting 298 00:14:11,650 --> 00:14:13,485 that it's in our genes what I'm suggesting 299 00:14:13,586 --> 00:14:19,758 is that the laws often inform the social realities. 300 00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:21,827 >> Is there any empirical evidence 301 00:14:21,927 --> 00:14:25,097 historically speaking that justifies the sphere. 302 00:14:25,998 --> 00:14:27,633 >> Absolutely not. 303 00:14:27,733 --> 00:14:29,501 >> I knew you would say it 304 00:14:29,602 --> 00:14:30,936 but I wanted to ask the question. 305 00:14:32,137 --> 00:14:34,874 Kurt Putney's Deputy Chief Kerr Putney 306 00:14:34,974 --> 00:14:37,643 promised to take steps to ease the tensions 307 00:14:37,743 --> 00:14:41,146 that we saw last year with these protests and riots. 308 00:14:41,247 --> 00:14:45,284 The city hired an organization called the police foundation 309 00:14:45,384 --> 00:14:47,519 a group out of Washington to study the department. 310 00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:49,989 Their report has yet to be released I'm told. 311 00:14:50,089 --> 00:14:53,826 Putney's says that CMPD has changed nonetheless. 312 00:14:53,926 --> 00:14:56,729 Critics say reforms haven't happened so 313 00:14:56,829 --> 00:14:59,231 while we've been waiting for this Police Foundation 314 00:14:59,331 --> 00:15:02,067 report what has CMPD done. 315 00:15:02,167 --> 00:15:04,436 Vicki Foster to improve things. 316 00:15:04,536 --> 00:15:06,572 >> So you know as I started talking about 317 00:15:06,672 --> 00:15:08,407 just constructing teams 318 00:15:08,507 --> 00:15:11,010 you know we did transparency workshops. 319 00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:13,646 What we found is that a lot of people felt on the rise 320 00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,014 that we weren't being transparent. 321 00:15:15,915 --> 00:15:18,884 They felt that we were not selling everything 322 00:15:18,984 --> 00:15:21,420 and so we started doing transparency workshops 323 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,824 which are for our citizens it is an abbreviated Citizen's Academy 324 00:15:25,925 --> 00:15:27,993 where they can come out and learn why we do 325 00:15:28,093 --> 00:15:30,663 what we do learn about our policies 326 00:15:30,763 --> 00:15:32,031 learn about our procedures 327 00:15:32,131 --> 00:15:34,934 so they can understand sometimes not always 328 00:15:35,034 --> 00:15:36,368 because no matter what people are not going 329 00:15:36,468 --> 00:15:38,871 to always understand why we do what we do. 330 00:15:38,971 --> 00:15:40,406 But we did do those workshops 331 00:15:40,506 --> 00:15:41,874 and we are continuing to do those. 332 00:15:41,974 --> 00:15:44,476 We've had over 100 citizens to go through those. 333 00:15:44,576 --> 00:15:47,012 We implemented de-escalation training 334 00:15:47,112 --> 00:15:50,616 which we have always done de-escalation training. 335 00:15:50,716 --> 00:15:53,419 It was within other areas of our training. 336 00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:56,021 We now have a specific block that is two hours 337 00:15:56,121 --> 00:15:57,589 that all officers have gone through 338 00:15:58,223 --> 00:15:59,591 for de-escalation training. 339 00:16:00,326 --> 00:16:04,697 On top of you know the Chief does so many community forms. 340 00:16:05,197 --> 00:16:08,300 He's out in the community as often as he possibly can 341 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:09,568 and they're very open 342 00:16:09,668 --> 00:16:11,904 and candid it forms if you've ever attended 343 00:16:12,004 --> 00:16:13,539 where he gives people the opportunity 344 00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:15,374 to ask what they want to ask. 345 00:16:15,474 --> 00:16:16,942 Is it making a difference do you think. 346 00:16:17,543 --> 00:16:18,944 I think he's making a big difference 347 00:16:19,044 --> 00:16:21,113 because whenever you are able to ask 348 00:16:21,213 --> 00:16:22,915 the leader of an organization 349 00:16:23,015 --> 00:16:26,218 whatever you want to ask and you get an answer. 350 00:16:26,318 --> 00:16:28,020 I absolutely think he's making a difference. 351 00:16:28,654 --> 00:16:30,055 >> Go ahead Robert, you want to jump in there? 352 00:16:30,155 --> 00:16:33,092 >> And I do think the chief has done wonderful things 353 00:16:33,192 --> 00:16:35,427 with have in his transparency workshops. 354 00:16:35,527 --> 00:16:38,998 But you have workshops you talk about transparency 355 00:16:39,098 --> 00:16:42,568 but transparency you've got to be either totally transparent 356 00:16:43,068 --> 00:16:44,603 or you're not going to be transparent at all 357 00:16:44,703 --> 00:16:46,105 and there's no middle ground. 358 00:16:46,205 --> 00:16:48,774 So at the same time that you have transparency workshops 359 00:16:48,874 --> 00:16:52,778 you have in January the shooting of housewife Diaz 360 00:16:52,878 --> 00:16:53,879 and the police department 361 00:16:53,979 --> 00:16:55,347 doesn't want to release that video 362 00:16:55,447 --> 00:16:56,849 and they say they don't want to release the video 363 00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:58,851 because the officer was undercover. 364 00:16:58,951 --> 00:17:00,619 Well you could block out the officers face 365 00:17:00,719 --> 00:17:02,254 and still show the video. 366 00:17:02,354 --> 00:17:04,790 Then last week when citizens review board 367 00:17:04,890 --> 00:17:05,991 made recommendations 368 00:17:06,091 --> 00:17:07,626 we didn't get all of the recommendations. 369 00:17:07,726 --> 00:17:09,395 We only got part recommendations. 370 00:17:09,928 --> 00:17:12,731 So transparency has to be 360. 371 00:17:13,332 --> 00:17:16,035 It can't be half of that or you'll never build public trust. 372 00:17:16,935 --> 00:17:19,705 >> One of the things that you mentioned a second ago 373 00:17:20,272 --> 00:17:23,242 was that you want people to understand how the police works 374 00:17:23,342 --> 00:17:24,743 and why they do the things they do. 375 00:17:24,843 --> 00:17:26,712 One of the big questions a lot of people 376 00:17:26,812 --> 00:17:30,549 have is why do police have to resort more times 377 00:17:30,649 --> 00:17:33,986 than not it seems to the use of deadly force. 378 00:17:34,086 --> 00:17:37,389 We have tasers and things like that so many times 379 00:17:37,489 --> 00:17:39,925 this deadly force is used against minorities 380 00:17:40,025 --> 00:17:41,593 not just black people but other minorities. 381 00:17:41,693 --> 00:17:44,396 It seems that way to outsiders from your point of view 382 00:17:44,496 --> 00:17:45,831 is that what it is. 383 00:17:45,931 --> 00:17:48,434 >> Well what I can tell you is when you say use more times 384 00:17:48,534 --> 00:17:53,672 than not we have over six hundred thousand contacts 385 00:17:53,772 --> 00:17:56,542 close contacts with citizens every day. 386 00:17:56,642 --> 00:18:00,312 So regardless one officer involved shooting is too many. 387 00:18:00,412 --> 00:18:03,582 But when you say more often than not that's a little misleading 388 00:18:03,682 --> 00:18:07,753 because we work 24 hours a day 365 days a year. 389 00:18:07,853 --> 00:18:09,555 We have contacts with citizens all day. 390 00:18:09,655 --> 00:18:12,124 So it's what we see. It's what it sounds see 391 00:18:12,224 --> 00:18:13,992 and it's the ones that are the most important. 392 00:18:14,093 --> 00:18:16,728 I mean someone losing their life is the most important. 393 00:18:16,829 --> 00:18:18,363 That's the most important piece. 394 00:18:18,464 --> 00:18:20,799 But to say that is is a little misleading 395 00:18:20,899 --> 00:18:24,703 because we have 600000 contacts with citizens a year 396 00:18:24,803 --> 00:18:27,206 so that's a little misleading. 397 00:18:27,306 --> 00:18:28,841 >> Ok, Robert? 398 00:18:28,941 --> 00:18:31,143 >> And again I agree with the assistant chief. 399 00:18:31,243 --> 00:18:33,178 But like citizens review board 400 00:18:34,246 --> 00:18:36,915 we can't just talk about officer involved shootings. 401 00:18:37,015 --> 00:18:41,353 There's cases that either just go to the sergeant level 402 00:18:41,453 --> 00:18:44,590 which are smaller infractions to larger cases 403 00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:46,625 they get heard by command staff 404 00:18:46,725 --> 00:18:48,927 to cases that make it to internal affairs 405 00:18:49,027 --> 00:18:52,664 so the whole experience of being disenfranchised 406 00:18:52,764 --> 00:18:55,601 and profound isn't just a police shooting. 407 00:18:55,701 --> 00:18:57,436 It's also a traffic stop. 408 00:18:57,536 --> 00:18:59,304 It's also being at the bus terminal 409 00:18:59,404 --> 00:19:02,141 and the transit police treat people to a different way. 410 00:19:02,241 --> 00:19:05,344 It's you know going in the neighborhoods 411 00:19:05,444 --> 00:19:06,645 that they don't believe that you should be 412 00:19:06,745 --> 00:19:09,248 in having a stop that you can't justify. 413 00:19:09,348 --> 00:19:12,451 Even though now we're do an articulable reasons 414 00:19:12,551 --> 00:19:14,553 for traffic stops 415 00:19:15,053 --> 00:19:16,321 there is still there is a thing 416 00:19:16,421 --> 00:19:18,757 so I don't want it all to be confined to the two 417 00:19:18,857 --> 00:19:20,659 or three police shootings. 418 00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:22,928 This is a compensating problem 419 00:19:23,028 --> 00:19:25,864 that African-Americans and Latinos and LGBTQ 420 00:19:25,964 --> 00:19:27,232 people go through daily 421 00:19:27,332 --> 00:19:28,600 which raises the temperature 422 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:30,936 of any contact with police does it not. 423 00:19:31,036 --> 00:19:33,071 >> Yes it does. 424 00:19:33,172 --> 00:19:36,275 >> Your organization worked on reforms in 2012 425 00:19:36,375 --> 00:19:38,610 on the Citizen Review Board 426 00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:42,281 and those reforms led to I'm told more cases 427 00:19:42,381 --> 00:19:45,350 including the Scott case to be granted fact finding hearings. 428 00:19:45,450 --> 00:19:48,120 But in all the years of its existence 429 00:19:48,754 --> 00:19:50,556 the citizen review review board 430 00:19:50,656 --> 00:19:55,227 has never sided against the police 431 00:19:55,327 --> 00:19:58,764 and in the most recent situation with the Scott 432 00:19:58,864 --> 00:20:02,334 shooting the review board took the side of Chief Putney 433 00:20:02,901 --> 00:20:07,506 saying that the officer involved had the right to do what he did 434 00:20:07,606 --> 00:20:08,840 was he was following policy 435 00:20:08,941 --> 00:20:11,643 he was within it within policy of doing what he did. 436 00:20:13,345 --> 00:20:15,647 But they did that on a four four split decision. 437 00:20:16,281 --> 00:20:18,483 That's because the entire complement of the board 438 00:20:18,584 --> 00:20:22,287 wasn't there for I think a slightly specious reasons. 439 00:20:22,387 --> 00:20:27,926 So given their record has the board always sided with police 440 00:20:28,026 --> 00:20:32,297 because police have always been right and done the right thing 441 00:20:32,397 --> 00:20:34,866 or is there a fundamental problem 442 00:20:34,967 --> 00:20:36,602 with the Citizen Review Board? 443 00:20:36,702 --> 00:20:39,771 >> There's a fundamental problem at the citizen's review board. 444 00:20:39,871 --> 00:20:46,178 First problem [applause] with the citizens review board 445 00:20:46,278 --> 00:20:49,081 is not an independent police board it's a board 446 00:20:49,181 --> 00:20:51,850 that you are making that is hearing. 447 00:20:53,318 --> 00:20:55,687 Following up on an internal affairs investigation 448 00:20:55,787 --> 00:20:57,289 and basically what you're trying to do 449 00:20:57,389 --> 00:20:59,858 is poke holes in the internal affairs -- 450 00:20:59,958 --> 00:21:03,295 the internal affairs decision. 451 00:21:03,395 --> 00:21:04,763 It has no power to go in 452 00:21:04,863 --> 00:21:07,666 and independently investigate its own cases. 453 00:21:07,766 --> 00:21:09,434 It has no subpoena power 454 00:21:09,534 --> 00:21:12,571 to subpoena witnesses to come before it. 455 00:21:12,671 --> 00:21:15,240 And of course it's a advisory board 456 00:21:15,340 --> 00:21:16,875 so it can't make any decisions 457 00:21:16,975 --> 00:21:18,310 to terminate 458 00:21:18,410 --> 00:21:20,412 or discipline an officer. 459 00:21:21,046 --> 00:21:23,148 How does the police review the police advisory 460 00:21:23,248 --> 00:21:24,650 board the Citizen Review Board. 461 00:21:26,318 --> 00:21:28,553 >> How does police view this as it were. 462 00:21:29,187 --> 00:21:30,555 I mean I don't know that I can answer 463 00:21:30,656 --> 00:21:32,190 how police view 464 00:21:32,291 --> 00:21:33,425 this citizens review board. 465 00:21:33,525 --> 00:21:35,527 >> I mean they've never sided against you. So 466 00:21:35,627 --> 00:21:39,131 >> I mean well it's not about whether they side against us 467 00:21:39,231 --> 00:21:43,035 or whether they you know side you know for us or against us. 468 00:21:43,135 --> 00:21:45,070 I mean we are appreciative of the fact 469 00:21:45,170 --> 00:21:47,072 that there is an independent group 470 00:21:47,172 --> 00:21:50,075 that takes a look at the investigation. 471 00:21:50,175 --> 00:21:52,544 I mean the people that are on that board 472 00:21:52,644 --> 00:21:54,179 are not people that we selected 473 00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:55,847 is not people we put on the board. 474 00:21:56,415 --> 00:21:58,216 So you know even though people don't want to say 475 00:21:58,317 --> 00:22:00,552 it's an independent board we don't have you 476 00:22:00,652 --> 00:22:02,054 know connections we didn't have anything to do 477 00:22:02,154 --> 00:22:03,655 with the people that are on there. 478 00:22:03,755 --> 00:22:05,857 And I will say this I do think 479 00:22:05,957 --> 00:22:08,327 that from the civil service board 480 00:22:08,427 --> 00:22:09,928 to the Citizen Review Board 481 00:22:10,028 --> 00:22:12,431 I do think you have to look at anybody's motive 482 00:22:12,531 --> 00:22:14,833 that wants to be on any board 483 00:22:14,933 --> 00:22:16,868 and whether that is pro-police 484 00:22:16,968 --> 00:22:19,771 and whether that is against police officers. 485 00:22:19,871 --> 00:22:21,106 So I do think that 486 00:22:21,206 --> 00:22:22,874 that's one of the things that needs to be looked at 487 00:22:22,974 --> 00:22:25,610 and there's not really many qualifications 488 00:22:25,711 --> 00:22:27,713 to be on the board. 489 00:22:28,547 --> 00:22:31,917 >> Will we ever hear the full recommendations 490 00:22:32,017 --> 00:22:33,952 that they put out following the Keith Scutt shooting 491 00:22:34,052 --> 00:22:35,754 will we ever see those recommendations. 492 00:22:35,854 --> 00:22:37,022 >> I mean I can't answer that 493 00:22:37,122 --> 00:22:38,724 because I'm not the chief of police 494 00:22:38,824 --> 00:22:41,960 but I would tell you that you know the untransparent 495 00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:43,261 is what he does 496 00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:45,130 so I can't tell you what well actually I have 497 00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:46,832 these I have a minute left in this segment 498 00:22:46,932 --> 00:22:48,533 and transparency is one of the big things 499 00:22:48,633 --> 00:22:50,736 to come out of this shooting of last year. 500 00:22:50,836 --> 00:22:52,404 >> And there's a new law on the books 501 00:22:52,504 --> 00:22:56,641 that prevents police from releasing the videos 502 00:22:56,742 --> 00:22:58,877 from body and dash cam and even security cameras 503 00:22:58,977 --> 00:23:01,113 not even elected officials can see them 504 00:23:01,213 --> 00:23:04,216 or without the permission of a judge correct. 505 00:23:04,316 --> 00:23:07,486 Is that a wise law given the political tenor 506 00:23:07,586 --> 00:23:09,221 and the and the frustration seething 507 00:23:09,321 --> 00:23:10,989 throughout the community. 508 00:23:11,089 --> 00:23:14,159 >> Well I'm not going to say that it's a wise law I mean 509 00:23:14,259 --> 00:23:17,229 because the people that need to see it immediately such 510 00:23:17,329 --> 00:23:19,331 as the family the people that are involved 511 00:23:19,865 --> 00:23:21,366 they do have the ability to petition 512 00:23:21,466 --> 00:23:23,635 to see you know 513 00:23:23,735 --> 00:23:25,570 whether it's it's right 514 00:23:25,670 --> 00:23:27,973 for it to have to go to a judge to be released. 515 00:23:28,073 --> 00:23:30,575 I don't know but what I will tell you is that if you 516 00:23:30,675 --> 00:23:33,645 leave that in the hands of individual police chiefs 517 00:23:33,745 --> 00:23:35,414 and then you will have a difference 518 00:23:35,514 --> 00:23:37,649 and who releases what and who doesn't. 519 00:23:37,749 --> 00:23:40,218 So I think that there had to be some type of law 520 00:23:40,318 --> 00:23:41,686 with some type of requirements 521 00:23:41,787 --> 00:23:44,189 as to when and how you released a video. 522 00:23:44,289 --> 00:23:45,590 So I do agree 523 00:23:45,690 --> 00:23:49,694 that you have to have some type of rules as to when you can. 524 00:23:50,529 --> 00:23:51,663 >> You have 10 seconds. 525 00:23:51,763 --> 00:23:53,899 That's not exactly how the law is worded. 526 00:23:53,999 --> 00:23:55,834 The law is worded that the police chief 527 00:23:55,934 --> 00:23:57,669 gets to make a decision. 528 00:23:57,769 --> 00:24:00,038 If your image is captured in the video 529 00:24:00,138 --> 00:24:03,008 to release the video within 36 hours 530 00:24:03,108 --> 00:24:05,444 if you do not grant it 531 00:24:05,544 --> 00:24:07,913 then you can ask a judge to have the video released. 532 00:24:08,013 --> 00:24:11,249 >> Robert Dawkins with SAVE Coalition North Carolina 533 00:24:11,349 --> 00:24:13,185 Vicky Foster assistant chief of CMPD. 534 00:24:13,285 --> 00:24:15,053 They'll return later in the program as well. 535 00:24:15,153 --> 00:24:16,988 Brenda Tindal a staff historian 536 00:24:17,088 --> 00:24:18,557 at the Levine Museum of the new self. 537 00:24:18,657 --> 00:24:20,826 When we come back activists and the role they played 538 00:24:20,926 --> 00:24:23,795 in responding to the shooting of Keith's got a year ago today 539 00:24:23,895 --> 00:24:25,297 and the role they've attempted to play 540 00:24:25,397 --> 00:24:27,999 in changing the status quo since that day. 541 00:24:28,099 --> 00:24:30,435 This is Charlotte Talks on WFAE. 542 00:24:38,977 --> 00:24:40,779 >> North Carolina Channel is made possible by 543 00:24:40,879 --> 00:24:42,781 the financial contributions of viewers like you 544 00:24:42,881 --> 00:24:45,617 who support the UNC-TV Network.