WEBVTT 00:02.769 --> 00:05.538 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Good evening and welcome to our third event 00:05.538 --> 00:09.743 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in our discussion series, "Conversations on Muhammad Ali," 00:09.743 --> 00:14.180 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% presented by PBS and ESPN's "The Undefeated." 00:14.180 --> 00:18.351 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% I'm Sylvia Bugg, Chief Programming Executive at PBS. 00:18.351 --> 00:21.154 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% This September, PBS is delighted to present 00:21.154 --> 00:24.324 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% the latest from Ken Burns, Sarah Burns, 00:24.324 --> 00:26.059 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% David McMahon and their team, 00:26.059 --> 00:28.294 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a four-part documentary series 00:28.294 --> 00:31.431 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on the global icon, Muhammad Ali. 00:31.431 --> 00:34.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Tonight, we continue our examination 00:34.200 --> 00:36.669 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the complex life of one of America's 00:36.669 --> 00:39.406 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% greatest figures of the 20th century. 00:39.406 --> 00:43.610 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He entered the public arena and was known as Cassius Clay, 00:43.610 --> 00:47.180 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but his Muslim faith and loyalty to the Nation of Islam 00:47.180 --> 00:51.051 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% inspired him to change his name to Muhammad Ali. 00:51.051 --> 00:53.586 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Though he openly admitted he was not perfect 00:53.586 --> 00:56.589 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at living out the tenets of the Islamic faith, 00:56.589 --> 00:59.793 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the influence of the powerful Nation of Islam leader, 00:59.793 --> 01:02.862 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Elijah Muhammad, and his friend, Malcolm X, 01:02.862 --> 01:04.564 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% deeply shaped his worldview, 01:04.564 --> 01:06.332 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% which was not often understood 01:06.332 --> 01:08.868 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by the American public at the time. 01:08.868 --> 01:10.804 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Tonight's discussion will explore 01:10.804 --> 01:13.306 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the interwoven nature of race and religion 01:13.306 --> 01:15.408 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in Muhammad Ali's own life 01:15.408 --> 01:19.746 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and its impact on sports, society, and culture today. 01:19.746 --> 01:22.882 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Joining Ken Burns tonight are Ibtihaj Muhammad, 01:22.882 --> 01:25.351 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Olympic medalist and change agent, 01:25.351 --> 01:29.155 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Sherman Jackson, King Faisal Chair 01:29.155 --> 01:31.157 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of Islamic Thought and Culture 01:31.157 --> 01:33.827 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at the University of Southern California, 01:33.827 --> 01:35.328 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and Justin Tinsley, 01:35.328 --> 01:37.964 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ESPN and "The Undefeated" senior writer 01:37.964 --> 01:40.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who will moderate the conversation. 01:40.433 --> 01:42.669 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Before we begin tonight's discussion, 01:42.669 --> 01:46.206 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% let's take a look at the introduction to the film. 01:46.206 --> 01:48.308 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Thank you for joining us this evening 01:48.308 --> 01:49.909 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and don't forget to tune in 01:49.909 --> 01:52.245 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to the premiere of "Muhammad Ali" 01:52.245 --> 01:57.217 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% on September 19th at 8:00 PM Eastern time on PBS. 02:03.490 --> 02:07.927 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - You want some breakfast? - I want some cornflakes. 02:07.927 --> 02:10.530 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Can I have some of your cornflakes? 02:10.530 --> 02:11.798 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Oh, I don't want none. 02:11.798 --> 02:14.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I won't take none, I won't take none. 02:14.000 --> 02:16.102 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I won't eat none if you don't want me to. 02:16.102 --> 02:17.670 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Ooh, look at that pretty horsey. 02:17.670 --> 02:19.472 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Where? - Is that a white horse? 02:19.472 --> 02:20.440 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% See? 02:20.440 --> 02:21.875 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% No, stand up, look over there. 02:21.875 --> 02:24.077 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Stand up, you gotta stand up, over them hills. 02:24.077 --> 02:26.646 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% See the big one, there he is. 02:26.646 --> 02:29.315 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (child gasping) 02:30.583 --> 02:32.318 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% What? (man laughing) 02:32.318 --> 02:33.686 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Where's the love? 02:33.686 --> 02:37.524 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% (crowd cheering and chanting) 02:41.194 --> 02:42.795 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - My earliest memories that I can think of 02:42.795 --> 02:45.865 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as a child with my father are walking through airports 02:45.865 --> 02:47.534 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and being in crowds 02:47.534 --> 02:49.302 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and feeling the vibrations 02:49.302 --> 02:52.872 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of people's clapping and shouts in my chest. 02:52.872 --> 02:54.340 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% And just looking at my dad, you know, 02:54.340 --> 02:55.909 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% like, "Who is this person?" 02:57.243 --> 02:59.712 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it was all the time, anywhere we went. 02:59.712 --> 03:00.713 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "You're the greatest, we love you!" 03:00.713 --> 03:03.016 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And the clapping and "Muhammad." 03:03.016 --> 03:05.852 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% (Ali and crowd speaking in foreign language) 03:05.852 --> 03:07.520 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Hana] I loved feeling all the energy 03:07.520 --> 03:09.088 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and the love that he felt. 03:09.088 --> 03:10.623 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (crowd chanting) 03:10.623 --> 03:14.627 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - We now think of Muhammad Ali as this vulnerable guy 03:14.627 --> 03:16.329 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% lighting the torch in Atlanta 03:16.329 --> 03:18.998 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and everybody on the globe loves him. 03:18.998 --> 03:20.934 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Black people like him, white people, 03:20.934 --> 03:23.269 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% he's a universal hero, 03:23.269 --> 03:26.406 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% almost in a religious way, like the Buddha, 03:26.406 --> 03:28.141 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but when he was in the midst of his career, 03:28.141 --> 03:29.409 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and not just in the early bit, 03:29.409 --> 03:32.045 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he was incredibly divisive. 03:32.045 --> 03:34.747 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Boo, yell, scream, throw peanuts, 03:34.747 --> 03:38.451 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but whatever you do, pay to get in. 03:38.451 --> 03:40.053 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - People hated him, 03:40.053 --> 03:41.254 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% whether it was along racial lines, 03:41.254 --> 03:42.889 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% class lines, Vietnam lines, 03:42.889 --> 03:44.791 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% political lines, religious lines, 03:44.791 --> 03:46.292 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% or they just couldn't stand him. 03:46.292 --> 03:47.560 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And people of course said the opposite. 03:47.560 --> 03:49.562 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And this was, "I loved him, loved him." 03:49.562 --> 03:51.264 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ("Freedom" by Beyonce playing) 03:51.264 --> 03:53.399 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But he had an opinion about it. 03:56.803 --> 03:58.538 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I ain't scared to do battle. 03:58.538 --> 04:00.907 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It would take a good man to whoop me! You can look at me. 04:00.907 --> 04:01.741 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I'm more than just confident. 04:01.741 --> 04:02.575 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% I can't be beat! 04:02.575 --> 04:04.944 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (indistinct) 04:04.944 --> 04:06.746 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And I'm pretty as hell. 04:06.746 --> 04:07.981 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Look how pretty I am. 04:07.981 --> 04:10.683 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (crowd laughing) 04:10.683 --> 04:12.885 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% My honed, trimmed legs and my beautiful arms 04:12.885 --> 04:13.853 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and my pretty nose and mouth. 04:13.853 --> 04:15.221 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I know I'm a pretty man. 04:15.221 --> 04:16.489 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I know I'm pretty. 04:16.489 --> 04:18.024 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You don't have to tell me I'm pretty. 04:18.024 --> 04:19.492 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I'm cocky. I'm proud. 04:19.492 --> 04:21.894 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Never talk about who's gonna stop me. 04:21.894 --> 04:23.029 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Ain't nobody gonna stop me! 04:23.029 --> 04:24.264 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I say what I wanna say. 04:24.264 --> 04:26.399 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Ain't no more big niggas talking like this. 04:26.399 --> 04:27.734 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% (dynamic music continuing) 04:27.734 --> 04:30.937 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - He was a pioneer. He was a revolutionary. 04:30.937 --> 04:32.872 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% He was a ground-breaker, 04:32.872 --> 04:36.776 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% a guy known simply as "the greatest." 04:36.776 --> 04:37.610 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - I am the greatest! 04:39.112 --> 04:40.680 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I've wrestled with alligators, 04:40.680 --> 04:42.348 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I've tussled with a whale, 04:42.348 --> 04:44.183 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I done handcuffed lighting 04:44.183 --> 04:45.518 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and put thunder in jail. 04:45.518 --> 04:46.853 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% You know I'm bad. 04:49.355 --> 04:51.057 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I can drown the drink of water 04:51.057 --> 04:52.492 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and kill a dead tree. 04:52.492 --> 04:54.260 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% This will be no contest! 04:54.260 --> 04:56.062 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Wait till you see Muhammad Ali. 04:58.164 --> 04:59.499 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - To have that chutzpah 04:59.499 --> 05:01.200 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and to be a Black man in America 05:01.200 --> 05:03.002 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% was just outlandish. 05:04.070 --> 05:05.638 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Muhammad means "worthy of all praises" 05:05.638 --> 05:07.540 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and Ali means "most high." 05:07.540 --> 05:10.310 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I just don't think I should go 10,000 miles 05:10.310 --> 05:11.444 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and shoot some Black people 05:11.444 --> 05:12.712 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% who never called me "nigger." 05:12.712 --> 05:14.247 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I just can't shoot 'em. 05:14.247 --> 05:16.249 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I always wondered why Miss America was always white. 05:16.249 --> 05:17.350 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Santa Claus was white. 05:17.350 --> 05:19.552 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% White Swan soap, King White soap. 05:19.552 --> 05:21.087 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% White Cloud tissue paper. 05:21.087 --> 05:22.822 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And everything bad was black. 05:22.822 --> 05:24.624 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Black cat was the bad luck. 05:24.624 --> 05:25.825 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And if I threaten you, 05:25.825 --> 05:29.062 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm gonna blackmail you. (audience laughing) 05:29.062 --> 05:30.496 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I said, "Mama, why don't they call it whitemail? 05:30.496 --> 05:31.531 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% They lie too." 05:31.531 --> 05:32.932 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I loved being around him. 05:32.932 --> 05:35.234 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I love being around Muhammad Ali. 05:36.369 --> 05:37.937 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Ali] You gonna float like a butterfly 05:37.937 --> 05:39.572 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and sting like a bee. 05:39.572 --> 05:40.606 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Ah! - Ah! 05:40.606 --> 05:42.575 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Rumble, young man, rumble. 05:42.575 --> 05:43.409 align:left position:40% line:83% size:50% - Ah! - Ah! 05:43.409 --> 05:44.577 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% ("Freedom" resuming) 05:44.577 --> 05:45.545 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - The price of freedom comes high. 05:45.545 --> 05:47.914 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I have paid, but I am free. 05:47.914 --> 05:50.383 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ♪ Freedom, freedom, I can't move ♪ 05:50.383 --> 05:53.353 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ♪ Freedom, cut me loose ♪ 05:53.353 --> 05:55.788 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ♪ Freedom, freedom, where are you ♪ 05:55.788 --> 05:58.257 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ♪ 'Cause I need freedom too ♪ 05:58.257 --> 06:00.760 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ♪ I break chains all by myself ♪ 06:00.760 --> 06:03.963 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ♪ Won't let my freedom rot in hell ♪ 06:03.963 --> 06:05.131 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% ♪ Hey ♪ 06:05.131 --> 06:06.399 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% ♪ I'ma keep running ♪ 06:06.399 --> 06:11.337 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ♪ 'Cause a winner don't quit on themselves ♪ 06:12.905 --> 06:14.207 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (sound of blows landing) 06:14.207 --> 06:15.475 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (upbeat R&B music) 06:15.475 --> 06:17.810 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Narrator] He called himself "the greatest" 06:17.810 --> 06:20.113 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then proved it to the entire world. 06:21.581 --> 06:24.817 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He was a master at what is called the sweet science, 06:24.817 --> 06:27.854 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the brutal and sometimes beautiful art of boxing. 06:29.288 --> 06:32.024 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Heavyweight champion at just 22 years old, 06:32.024 --> 06:35.762 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he wrote his own rules in the ring and in his life. 06:35.762 --> 06:39.298 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Infuriating his critics, baffling his opponents, 06:39.298 --> 06:41.367 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and riveting millions of fans. 06:43.202 --> 06:45.004 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% At the height of the civil rights movement, 06:45.004 --> 06:47.473 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he joined a separatist religious sect 06:47.473 --> 06:49.275 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% whose leader would, for a time, 06:49.275 --> 06:51.477 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% dominate both his personal life 06:51.477 --> 06:52.779 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and his boxing career. 06:53.946 --> 06:56.716 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He spoke his mind and stood on principle, 06:56.716 --> 06:58.618 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% even when it cost him his livelihood. 07:00.219 --> 07:02.722 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He redefined Black manhood, 07:02.722 --> 07:04.690 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% yet belittled his greatest rival 07:04.690 --> 07:07.427 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% using the racist language of the Jim Crow South 07:07.427 --> 07:08.861 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in which he had been raised. 07:10.696 --> 07:12.198 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Banished for his beliefs, 07:12.198 --> 07:14.834 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he returned to boxing an underdog, 07:14.834 --> 07:17.236 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% reclaimed his title twice 07:17.236 --> 07:19.305 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and became the most famous man on earth. 07:21.474 --> 07:24.110 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He craved adulation his whole life, 07:24.110 --> 07:26.345 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% seeking crowds on street corners, 07:26.345 --> 07:28.047 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in hotel lobbies, 07:28.047 --> 07:30.950 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on airport tarmacs everywhere he went, 07:32.118 --> 07:34.554 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and reveled in the uninhibited joy 07:34.554 --> 07:36.389 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he brought each adoring fan. 07:38.324 --> 07:42.128 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He earned a massive fortune, spent it freely 07:42.128 --> 07:46.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and gave generously to family, friends, even strangers, 07:46.833 --> 07:47.934 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% anyone in need. 07:49.268 --> 07:51.537 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Service to others, he often said, 07:51.537 --> 07:54.640 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is the rent you pay for your room here on earth. 07:56.542 --> 07:59.145 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Even after his body began to betray him 07:59.145 --> 08:01.848 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and his brain had absorbed too many blows, 08:01.848 --> 08:02.782 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% he fought on, 08:03.916 --> 08:06.219 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% unable to go without the attention and drama 08:06.219 --> 08:07.720 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that accompanied each bout. 08:09.956 --> 08:11.791 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Later, slowed and silenced 08:11.791 --> 08:14.560 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by a cruel and crippling disease, 08:14.560 --> 08:17.129 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he found refuge in his faith, 08:17.129 --> 08:20.199 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% becoming a symbol of peace and hope on every continent. 08:22.235 --> 08:24.904 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Muhammad Ali was, the novelist Norman Mailer wrote, 08:26.105 --> 08:28.207 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the very spirit of the 20th century. 08:30.142 --> 08:32.078 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I'm always gonna be one Black one 08:32.078 --> 08:34.514 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who got big on your white televisions, 08:34.514 --> 08:36.983 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% on your white newspapers, on your satellites, 08:36.983 --> 08:38.484 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% million-dollar checks, 08:38.484 --> 08:41.153 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and still look you in your face and tell you the truth 08:41.153 --> 08:44.290 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and 100% stay with and represent my people 08:44.290 --> 08:46.692 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and not leave 'em and sell 'em out because I'm rich. 08:46.692 --> 08:48.728 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And stay with 'em, that was my purpose. 08:48.728 --> 08:50.263 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm here and I'm showing the world 08:50.263 --> 08:52.598 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that you can be here and still free 08:52.598 --> 08:54.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and stay yourself 08:54.100 --> 08:55.368 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and get respect from the world. 08:55.368 --> 08:57.970 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (bell dinging) 09:05.344 --> 09:06.712 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Good evening, everyone. 09:06.712 --> 09:08.581 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Good evening, everyone. 09:08.581 --> 09:10.816 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% My name is Justin Tinsley, 09:10.816 --> 09:12.685 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a senior sports and culture reporter 09:12.685 --> 09:14.353 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with ESPN's "The Undefeated," 09:14.353 --> 09:17.623 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and to say I'm excited for this evening's event 09:17.623 --> 09:18.824 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% would be an understatement. 09:18.824 --> 09:22.295 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It would be like saying Muhammad Ali was shy 09:22.295 --> 09:24.630 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and he bit his tongue and he didn't wanna speak. 09:24.630 --> 09:26.499 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That just wouldn't be true. 09:26.499 --> 09:29.402 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But what is true is that for the next hour or so, 09:29.402 --> 09:30.903 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we're gonna be speaking about the man 09:30.903 --> 09:32.338 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who called himself "the greatest" 09:32.338 --> 09:34.941 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% even before he knew he was. 09:34.941 --> 09:38.077 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that would be Muhammad Ali, of course. (chuckling) 09:38.077 --> 09:39.278 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Now over the summer, my colleagues, 09:39.278 --> 09:41.747 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Jesse Washington and Lonnae O'Neill, 09:41.747 --> 09:43.282 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they've helped moderate discussions 09:43.282 --> 09:45.585 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% about this truly, truly, truly, 09:45.585 --> 09:47.153 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and I can't say this enough, 09:47.153 --> 09:50.222 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% this truly phenomenal documentary entitled "Muhammad Ali" 09:50.222 --> 09:54.327 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which will be airing on PBS on September 19th. 09:54.327 --> 09:56.495 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Now, I made a vow to myself 09:56.495 --> 09:59.332 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that I would do a lot more listening than I would talking. 09:59.332 --> 10:00.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So I'm about to shut up, 10:00.933 --> 10:04.470 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but I'd like to introduce our esteemed panel 10:04.470 --> 10:07.239 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for this discussion today on Muhammad Ali, 10:07.239 --> 10:08.741 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% race and religion 10:08.741 --> 10:11.377 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that's brought to you by PBS and "The Undefeated." 10:11.377 --> 10:13.913 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Now, first up, I wanna introduce the director, 10:13.913 --> 10:15.147 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Ken Burns. 10:15.147 --> 10:17.450 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He's the man behind some of the most phenomenal 10:17.450 --> 10:19.885 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and thrilling documentaries that you're ever gonna see 10:19.885 --> 10:23.055 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% on topics like Jackie Robinson or the Central Park Five 10:23.055 --> 10:24.156 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and the Vietnam War. 10:24.156 --> 10:25.558 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% And for my book, 10:25.558 --> 10:27.627 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he's one of the best storytellers of my lifetime. 10:27.627 --> 10:30.329 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I also wanna say that Sarah Burns and David McMahon 10:30.329 --> 10:32.832 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% were co-writers and co-directors of this film. 10:32.832 --> 10:36.535 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So Ken, thank you so much for having me be a part of this, 10:36.535 --> 10:38.838 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and thank you so much for speaking for this. 10:38.838 --> 10:40.840 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Justin, it's such a great pleasure to be with you. 10:40.840 --> 10:43.409 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We're so grateful to ESPN and "The Undefeated" 10:43.409 --> 10:45.111 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that we've been able to have the third 10:45.111 --> 10:46.846 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of what will be four conversations 10:46.846 --> 10:51.217 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% about this extraordinary human being, Muhammad Ali, 10:51.217 --> 10:53.319 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and on behalf of Sarah and Dave, 10:53.319 --> 10:55.187 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% who are equally the co-directors 10:55.187 --> 10:56.922 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and they are the two writers, 10:56.922 --> 11:01.827 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% so I'll be the flack, the publicity guy for them tonight. 11:03.162 --> 11:06.298 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - I'd say you'd be really good in that role. 11:06.298 --> 11:09.268 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Next up, I have the honor and the true privilege 11:09.268 --> 11:11.337 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of introducing Ibtihaj Muhammad, 11:11.337 --> 11:13.139 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% she's an Olympic medalist in fencing, 11:13.139 --> 11:14.740 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and she became the first Muslim woman 11:14.740 --> 11:16.742 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to wear a hijab during the Olympics. 11:16.742 --> 11:18.444 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But I've been a big fan of her for years, 11:18.444 --> 11:21.280 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and every interview I've seen has just been a masterclass 11:21.280 --> 11:23.849 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in personality, nuance and perspective. 11:23.849 --> 11:25.051 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I'm not even saying this 11:25.051 --> 11:26.452 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% 'cause she's sitting here right now, 11:26.452 --> 11:29.588 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but she's as deserving of Time Magazine's 11:29.588 --> 11:31.791 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "100 most influential people in the world" 11:31.791 --> 11:33.793 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as anybody that you'll ever meet. 11:33.793 --> 11:35.561 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% She's an author, she's a change agent 11:35.561 --> 11:38.264 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and she's always speaking truth to power. 11:38.264 --> 11:40.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Ibtihaj, thank you so much for joining us. 11:40.766 --> 11:42.702 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Thanks for having me. 11:42.702 --> 11:44.170 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 11:44.170 --> 11:46.172 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And next up we have Professor Sherman Jackson. 11:46.172 --> 11:47.506 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He's the King Faisal Chair 11:47.506 --> 11:50.476 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of Islamic thought and culture at USC. 11:50.476 --> 11:52.344 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That's Southern California, not South Carolina. 11:52.344 --> 11:54.714 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And he's been featured in the Washington Post 11:54.714 --> 11:56.215 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and the Huffington Post. 11:56.215 --> 11:59.251 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And Dr. Jackson has been listed as among 11:59.251 --> 12:02.455 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the 10 most foremost experts on Islam in America. 12:02.455 --> 12:05.725 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And though he may not be able to put this on his LinkedIn, 12:05.725 --> 12:08.527 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he's definitely one of my favorite voices in this episode. 12:08.527 --> 12:11.997 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So Professor Jackson, thank you so much for joining us. 12:13.132 --> 12:14.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Thank you very much for having me. 12:14.533 --> 12:15.935 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Thank you for the kind words. 12:15.935 --> 12:18.104 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Oh, no. Look, the pleasure is all mine. 12:18.104 --> 12:19.371 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Believe that. 12:19.371 --> 12:20.706 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I wanna get right into the discussion. 12:20.706 --> 12:22.074 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I wanna ask each of you a question 12:22.074 --> 12:23.209 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% before we keep moving on. 12:23.209 --> 12:25.478 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So Ken, I'll start with you. 12:25.478 --> 12:27.747 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Muhammad Ali, he's remembered for a lot of things, 12:27.747 --> 12:29.181 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% of course, 12:29.181 --> 12:31.817 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but his boxing career is perhaps what he's most known for. 12:31.817 --> 12:33.385 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But this episode in particular, 12:33.385 --> 12:36.689 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it focuses on the role of race and religion in his life. 12:36.689 --> 12:38.791 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And what makes that so important 12:38.791 --> 12:41.160 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when describing who Muhammad Ali is, 12:41.160 --> 12:43.362 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% aside from his boxing career, 12:43.362 --> 12:46.532 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and in some ways it may be even more important than that. 12:46.532 --> 12:47.767 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Thank you, Justin. 12:47.767 --> 12:49.502 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% There's a really wonderful moment 12:49.502 --> 12:50.669 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% towards the end of the film, 12:50.669 --> 12:52.371 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the end of the fourth episode, 12:53.873 --> 12:55.674 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when one of his daughters, Rashida, 12:55.674 --> 12:57.309 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% pinches her fingers together and said, 12:57.309 --> 12:59.011 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "Boxing was only this much." 12:59.011 --> 13:02.014 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Now, of course, this is the story of a boxer, 13:02.014 --> 13:03.616 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that was his job, 13:03.616 --> 13:06.285 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but she's implying that it could have been something else. 13:06.285 --> 13:08.921 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He could have been as simple carpenter, for example. 13:08.921 --> 13:13.926 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And we know in history, the fates of simple carpenters. 13:15.294 --> 13:19.098 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% She was essentially alluding to or reflecting back 13:19.098 --> 13:21.534 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on what our whole effort has been, 13:21.534 --> 13:24.637 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which was to put him in a much larger context 13:24.637 --> 13:25.905 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% than the boxing world. 13:25.905 --> 13:27.807 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The context of his personal life, 13:27.807 --> 13:31.677 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% his birth in segregated Jim Crow Louisville, Kentucky, 13:31.677 --> 13:34.180 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% his childhood there, good and bad. 13:34.180 --> 13:36.482 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Obviously the boxing part of it, 13:36.482 --> 13:38.717 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the political parts of it. 13:38.717 --> 13:42.621 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But really what we see is, this is a journey of faith. 13:42.621 --> 13:44.924 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This is the awakening of a young man 13:46.859 --> 13:51.864 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% beset by the indignities of Jim Crow 13:52.765 --> 13:54.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in the United States of America 13:54.266 --> 13:57.570 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and looking for solutions and answers. 13:57.570 --> 14:02.274 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And he finds that in the Nation of Islam and he grows. 14:02.274 --> 14:03.809 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And I think too often, 14:03.809 --> 14:07.713 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we talk about the Nation of Islam as a political choice 14:07.713 --> 14:09.582 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and it's because he's a Black man 14:09.582 --> 14:11.217 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% saying no to the Vietnam War, 14:11.217 --> 14:13.052 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% but it's more than that. 14:13.052 --> 14:14.286 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And it's evolving. 14:14.286 --> 14:16.622 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's never constant, it's never fixed. 14:16.622 --> 14:19.358 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so I think that accompanying 14:19.358 --> 14:23.462 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% all of the outer, more familiar biographical stuff 14:23.462 --> 14:26.532 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is a much more difficult to explicate 14:26.532 --> 14:30.069 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and contradictory at times and controversial at times 14:30.069 --> 14:33.606 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% adherence to the faith of this cult, 14:33.606 --> 14:37.576 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which bears essentially very little to Islam, 14:37.576 --> 14:41.981 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but is motivating him and enlarging his understanding 14:41.981 --> 14:44.483 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% so that by the end of his life, 14:44.483 --> 14:46.752 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it has reached that kind of place. 14:46.752 --> 14:49.655 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think it's central to this story 14:49.655 --> 14:52.057 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and it's central to understanding him. 14:56.462 --> 14:59.365 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% He's crossing all the intersections of the late 20th century 14:59.365 --> 15:02.501 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with regard to sports, the role of sports in society, 15:02.501 --> 15:04.403 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the role of Black athletes, 15:04.403 --> 15:06.105 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he's redefining Black manhood. 15:06.105 --> 15:08.974 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It's obviously intersecting with the civil rights movement. 15:08.974 --> 15:12.544 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's also about politics and war. 15:12.544 --> 15:16.715 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And yet it's also about faith and it's about Islam 15:16.715 --> 15:18.350 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and that's an important thing, 15:18.350 --> 15:20.953 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I think a glue that holds the larger, 15:20.953 --> 15:23.889 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% more complex biography together. 15:23.889 --> 15:28.894 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And we were excited to be able to try to integrate that 15:30.229 --> 15:32.331 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% into this complicated narrative 15:32.331 --> 15:35.734 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% about one of the most spectacularly wonderful, 15:35.734 --> 15:37.002 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% complicated humans, 15:37.002 --> 15:40.439 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as American as anybody I've ever come across 15:40.439 --> 15:43.242 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in my 50 years of doing this. 15:43.242 --> 15:46.345 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Abraham Lincoln, Ida B. Wells, 15:46.345 --> 15:49.448 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Louis Armstrong, Benjamin Franklin, 15:49.448 --> 15:51.784 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Franklin Roosevelt, Eleanor Roosevelt, 15:51.784 --> 15:52.785 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Elizabeth Cady. 15:52.785 --> 15:54.353 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% There's a handful of people 15:54.353 --> 15:57.189 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that just are undeniably American 15:57.189 --> 15:59.558 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and what makes him so 15:59.558 --> 16:01.160 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% is this complex story. 16:01.160 --> 16:02.861 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And at the heart of this complex story 16:02.861 --> 16:05.898 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is, of course, punching other people in a ring, 16:05.898 --> 16:07.132 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% basically naked, 16:07.132 --> 16:10.069 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but it's also asking the fundamental questions 16:10.069 --> 16:12.338 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of "What is my purpose here on earth?" 16:12.338 --> 16:17.209 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And this young kid understood very early on that he had. 16:17.209 --> 16:18.410 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% And he says it, 16:18.410 --> 16:20.245 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when he's talking about giving up boxing 16:20.245 --> 16:22.581 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% before any of the troubles, 16:22.581 --> 16:24.683 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he says, "I know I'm here for a purpose," 16:24.683 --> 16:27.252 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% which means it doesn't have anything to do with boxing. 16:27.252 --> 16:28.921 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He is an apostle of love. 16:28.921 --> 16:30.556 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% This is a story of freedom, 16:30.556 --> 16:33.659 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it's a story of courage and it's a story of love. 16:33.659 --> 16:34.860 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 16:34.860 --> 16:36.128 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And again, for everyone watching, 16:36.128 --> 16:38.230 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% this is a truly phenomenal documentary. 16:38.230 --> 16:40.299 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I implore you to watch this later this month 16:40.299 --> 16:41.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% when it comes out. 16:41.533 --> 16:44.503 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But just sticking with the totality of the man, 16:44.503 --> 16:46.805 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Ibtihaj, I wanna go to you next. 16:46.805 --> 16:48.140 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We're the same age, 16:48.140 --> 16:49.842 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we were born roughly around the same time. 16:49.842 --> 16:52.945 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And my question for you is this. 16:52.945 --> 16:56.115 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Coming up, how was Muhammad Ali described to you? 16:56.115 --> 16:57.516 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And as you got older, 16:57.516 --> 16:59.551 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what was the most surprising or fascinating thing 16:59.551 --> 17:03.055 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that you came to understand and learn about the man? 17:03.055 --> 17:04.857 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Well, I have to say that 17:07.359 --> 17:10.062 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Ken, you are really selling this series. 17:10.062 --> 17:13.465 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I can't wait to tune in and watch with everyone. 17:14.900 --> 17:19.905 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Muhammad Ali is the greatest sports figure of my life. 17:21.740 --> 17:24.877 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He's someone that I've always looked to 17:24.877 --> 17:27.079 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% as a source of light. 17:27.079 --> 17:32.084 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Growing up, I knew that he was this professional boxer 17:33.152 --> 17:35.054 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he was the greatest of all time, 17:35.054 --> 17:38.624 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but this celebrated sports figure, 17:38.624 --> 17:41.960 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I feel like in the Black community and Muslim community, 17:41.960 --> 17:44.129 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he really was a superhero. 17:44.129 --> 17:49.134 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And my parents converted to Islam in the '70s. 17:50.269 --> 17:51.870 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I remember my dad always showing us 17:51.870 --> 17:56.208 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this photo of the time he got to meet Muhammad Ali. 17:56.208 --> 17:57.576 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% He was visiting. 17:57.576 --> 17:59.144 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I don't know if he was fighting in New Jersey or what, 17:59.144 --> 18:00.979 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but my dad was so young in this photo. 18:00.979 --> 18:04.716 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And it was just, I think, 18:04.716 --> 18:07.052 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% this defining moment in his life, 18:07.052 --> 18:10.489 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% especially as someone who was new to the faith. 18:10.489 --> 18:13.692 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And what I knew of Muhammad Ali growing up 18:13.692 --> 18:18.263 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% was so much about and so connected to his faith 18:19.231 --> 18:22.301 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and him as an athlete. 18:22.301 --> 18:27.106 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But what I didn't really, I think, come to realize 18:27.106 --> 18:31.076 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% until after I got to university 18:31.076 --> 18:33.212 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% was more so of his activism 18:33.212 --> 18:36.482 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and him just being an advocate for humanity 18:36.482 --> 18:39.418 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and for equity in this country, 18:39.418 --> 18:40.919 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% specifically for Black people. 18:40.919 --> 18:44.790 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that's always resonated so much with me 18:44.790 --> 18:47.126 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I feel like it really allowed me 18:47.126 --> 18:50.829 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to lay this blueprint for what I wanted to do in sports, 18:50.829 --> 18:52.731 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% how I wanna show up in the world. 18:55.067 --> 18:57.236 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's hard to put into words 18:58.904 --> 19:01.974 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what someone or a person that you've never met before... 19:03.375 --> 19:06.845 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I was not fortunate enough to meet Muhammad Ali, 19:06.845 --> 19:08.347 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% allahumma, while he was here. 19:10.115 --> 19:11.984 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I really feel like he changed my life 19:11.984 --> 19:13.819 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the way that I think about sport 19:13.819 --> 19:15.320 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the way that I show up in the world. 19:15.320 --> 19:19.758 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so much of his path was rooted in Islam. 19:19.758 --> 19:22.861 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that's a way that I wanna show up in the world 19:22.861 --> 19:25.230 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and a way that I wanna live my life as well. 19:26.498 --> 19:28.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - I agree with you. 19:28.066 --> 19:30.302 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I wish I truly had a chance to meet him, 19:30.302 --> 19:33.205 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% 'cause he was such a fascinating, such a complex individual. 19:33.205 --> 19:35.941 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I always knew about the boxing, but as I got older, 19:35.941 --> 19:37.976 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I would come to learn about the different nuances 19:37.976 --> 19:40.445 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and relationships in his life. 19:40.445 --> 19:42.014 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so, Professor Jackson, 19:42.014 --> 19:44.016 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I wanna toss it to you on that. 19:44.016 --> 19:47.252 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% One of the most fascinating elements of Muhammad Ali's life 19:47.252 --> 19:50.589 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% was his brotherhood with the late Malcolm X. 19:50.589 --> 19:53.058 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So my question to you is this, 19:53.058 --> 19:54.960 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the documentary does a really great job 19:54.960 --> 19:56.361 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of painting this picture, 19:56.361 --> 19:59.064 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but how would you describe Ali's relationship 19:59.064 --> 20:00.499 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% with Elijah Muhammad 20:00.499 --> 20:03.368 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in context with them falling out with Malcolm 20:03.368 --> 20:05.771 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and how much did Malcolm's assassination 20:05.771 --> 20:07.539 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% impact Ali in his later years? 20:08.707 --> 20:11.577 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Wow, easy question. Thanks. 20:11.577 --> 20:15.380 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (everyone laughing) 20:15.380 --> 20:17.216 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Well, let me start by saying this. 20:18.650 --> 20:22.221 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Any time you are put on the spot 20:22.221 --> 20:23.622 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to comment about Muhammad Ali, 20:23.622 --> 20:27.125 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it's very easy to get tongue-tied 20:27.125 --> 20:29.394 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% because the man is so huge 20:29.394 --> 20:32.664 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that you're looking for words that will match 20:32.664 --> 20:36.435 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the magnitude of his presence and impact. 20:36.435 --> 20:38.971 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's just so very, very difficult to do. 20:40.572 --> 20:42.040 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% To my mind, 20:42.040 --> 20:45.944 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think that Elijah Muhammad was a person 20:47.879 --> 20:52.150 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who really contributed enormously to 20:53.619 --> 20:58.323 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% putting forth a redefinition of American Blackness, 20:58.323 --> 21:02.294 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of really defining an alternative modality 21:02.294 --> 21:03.929 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of being Black in America. 21:05.030 --> 21:08.967 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% A modality of Blackness that did not begin 21:08.967 --> 21:12.571 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with the definitions of the dominant group of whites 21:12.571 --> 21:16.408 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as the criterion for what was valuable, 21:16.408 --> 21:20.646 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that Black people could determine for themselves 21:20.646 --> 21:23.048 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% what was good, what was bad, 21:23.048 --> 21:25.884 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what was valuable, what was not valuable. 21:25.884 --> 21:27.986 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And the dominant group of whites 21:27.986 --> 21:31.423 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% no longer sat in ultimate judgment of that. 21:31.423 --> 21:35.060 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think that Elijah Muhammad defined 21:35.060 --> 21:38.697 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that alternative modality of American Blackness, 21:38.697 --> 21:42.801 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but Muhammad Ali, I think more than anyone else, 21:42.801 --> 21:43.769 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% personified it. 21:45.270 --> 21:49.207 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He is the one who gave it flesh, who gave it blood, 21:49.207 --> 21:50.809 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% who gave it a voice, 21:50.809 --> 21:55.514 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who unleashed its power into the ether 21:55.514 --> 21:58.517 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% where everybody basically internalized it. 21:59.985 --> 22:04.356 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think that human life is evolutionary by nature. 22:05.624 --> 22:07.326 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% None of us is the same person today 22:07.326 --> 22:09.361 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that we were 10 years ago 22:09.361 --> 22:11.363 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and certainly not 20 years ago. 22:11.363 --> 22:13.899 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I think that in his early years, 22:13.899 --> 22:16.201 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% his early relationship with Elijah Muhammad, 22:16.201 --> 22:19.204 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for him, that was a way out. 22:19.204 --> 22:22.674 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That was one of the things that helped him. 22:22.674 --> 22:24.176 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% You got to imagine this. 22:24.176 --> 22:26.745 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% One of the things that I marvel at in Muhammad Ali, 22:26.745 --> 22:31.750 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% 22 years old, making some of the decisions he made, 22:32.918 --> 22:34.519 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% taking some of the stands that he made, 22:34.519 --> 22:38.390 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and Elijah Muhammad was the basis 22:38.390 --> 22:41.860 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% upon which his new way of thinking 22:41.860 --> 22:45.664 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% allowed him to access those parts of himself 22:45.664 --> 22:47.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that would enable him to take those stands. 22:47.766 --> 22:49.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And so he was very loyal 22:50.502 --> 22:55.040 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and he saw Elijah Muhammad as being a transformative figure, 22:56.241 --> 22:58.577 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% not simply for him as an individual 22:58.577 --> 23:00.946 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but for Black people in America. 23:00.946 --> 23:03.215 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And he didn't want to let that go. 23:04.416 --> 23:06.084 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He later came to regret that 23:06.084 --> 23:11.022 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and regret his relationship with Malcolm X 23:11.022 --> 23:12.224 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% as it had devolved. 23:13.825 --> 23:15.093 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% But you know, 23:15.093 --> 23:16.495 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that's part of the evolution in life 23:16.495 --> 23:17.829 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that we all go through. 23:17.829 --> 23:20.098 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We all make decisions at one point 23:20.098 --> 23:21.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that we see later on 23:21.533 --> 23:23.869 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% were not the decision that we would have made 23:23.869 --> 23:26.171 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if we knew then what we know now. 23:27.572 --> 23:31.376 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But I think that Muhammad Ali's personification, 23:31.376 --> 23:33.278 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and I'm speaking here 23:33.278 --> 23:36.181 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% not as someone studying Muhammad Ali, 23:36.181 --> 23:40.318 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but I'm thinking about myself as a child, as a teenager, 23:41.853 --> 23:46.458 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and the things that Muhammad Ali did and said 23:46.458 --> 23:48.360 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and how they impacted me 23:48.360 --> 23:52.464 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in terms of my ability to imagine what I could be, 23:52.464 --> 23:53.999 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% not just professionally, 23:53.999 --> 23:56.568 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but just in terms of being a man, 23:56.568 --> 23:59.271 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% being a Black person in America, 23:59.271 --> 24:04.176 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% having the ability to define my life, my circumstances 24:05.510 --> 24:07.846 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% for myself without having to seek permission 24:07.846 --> 24:09.915 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% from the dominant culture. 24:09.915 --> 24:11.183 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 24:11.183 --> 24:12.617 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And you talk about the decisions that we make 24:12.617 --> 24:14.820 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and how they impact our lives. 24:14.820 --> 24:16.588 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I wanna go to this second clip. 24:16.588 --> 24:18.590 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We're gonna watch a clip 24:18.590 --> 24:20.492 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% about the most controversial 24:20.492 --> 24:22.260 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and pretty much landmark decision 24:22.260 --> 24:23.829 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of Muhammad Ali's life. 24:23.829 --> 24:26.331 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And Ken, to use a sports analogy, 24:26.331 --> 24:27.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I'm gonna hand this off to you 24:27.866 --> 24:29.701 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and let you tell us what we're gonna watch 24:29.701 --> 24:30.769 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in this next clip. 24:30.769 --> 24:33.405 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Yeah, let me be pretty brief. 24:34.573 --> 24:36.508 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He's really a divisive figure, 24:36.508 --> 24:39.678 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as David Remnick suggests in the film, 24:39.678 --> 24:41.446 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to that larger white world, 24:41.446 --> 24:43.615 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and there's three strikes against him. 24:43.615 --> 24:47.352 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% First one is he's loud and he's proud and he's bragging 24:47.352 --> 24:50.489 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and he's not behaving the way an athlete should. 24:50.489 --> 24:53.225 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And he's certainly not behaving 24:53.225 --> 24:54.659 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the way a Black athlete should. 24:54.659 --> 24:55.894 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So that's strike one. 24:55.894 --> 24:58.163 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Strike two is, after he defeats Sonny Liston, 24:59.364 --> 25:02.267 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he announces that he's been a member 25:02.267 --> 25:03.568 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of the Nation of Islam. 25:03.568 --> 25:05.103 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Strike two. 25:05.103 --> 25:08.106 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% This has been labeled by the mainstream as a hate group. 25:08.106 --> 25:11.843 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% There's been take-downs of it and documentaries of it. 25:11.843 --> 25:15.714 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And then he refuses induction into the US army. 25:15.714 --> 25:17.782 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% He's reclassified as 1A, 25:17.782 --> 25:19.584 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% he says he's not going. 25:19.584 --> 25:22.854 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And a lot of his licenses are strip from various places, 25:22.854 --> 25:24.956 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% fights are postponed or moved around. 25:24.956 --> 25:27.626 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He's basically being boxed into a corner. 25:27.626 --> 25:29.861 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then of course the United States government 25:29.861 --> 25:32.330 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% brings charges against him 25:32.330 --> 25:35.634 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% when he actually refuses physically the induction. 25:35.634 --> 25:37.936 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's strike three. It's out. 25:37.936 --> 25:40.338 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so this is a clip from our second episode, 25:40.338 --> 25:45.343 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that takes the story which exists on one level 25:46.211 --> 25:47.879 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and puts it into another level 25:47.879 --> 25:49.748 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% courtesy of Professor Jackson, 25:51.182 --> 25:54.953 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and I think just understanding what the stakes are at hand. 25:54.953 --> 25:57.656 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So it's a very, very short clip. 25:57.656 --> 26:01.593 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think it'll certainly give this distinguished panel 26:01.593 --> 26:03.828 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% a chance to respond. 26:03.828 --> 26:05.463 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (crowd chattering) 26:05.463 --> 26:06.765 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - [Narrator] Two weeks later, 26:06.765 --> 26:09.301 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% an all-white Houston jury found Ali guilty 26:09.301 --> 26:11.536 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of refusing the draft. 26:11.536 --> 26:14.439 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The judge, ignoring the more lenient recommendation 26:14.439 --> 26:15.907 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of the prosecutor, 26:15.907 --> 26:18.243 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% sentenced him to the maximum: 26:18.243 --> 26:21.680 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% five years in prison and a $10,000 fine. 26:22.814 --> 26:25.383 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And he would have to surrender his passport. 26:25.383 --> 26:26.751 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (tense music) 26:26.751 --> 26:30.188 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Ali's lawyers immediately filed an appeal, 26:30.188 --> 26:32.457 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% prepared to go all the way to the Supreme Court 26:32.457 --> 26:35.427 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if necessary, a process that could take years, 26:36.695 --> 26:38.263 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Ali remained free, 26:38.263 --> 26:41.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but without his title or a license to box. 26:43.001 --> 26:45.437 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He fully expected that he would one day 26:45.437 --> 26:47.372 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% go to jail for his beliefs. 26:48.506 --> 26:50.308 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - We who are followers of Elijah Muhammad 26:50.308 --> 26:51.576 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and the religion of Islam, 26:51.576 --> 26:54.045 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we believe in obeying the laws of the land. 26:54.045 --> 26:56.581 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We are taught to obey the laws of the land 26:56.581 --> 27:00.485 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as long as it don't conflict with our religious beliefs. 27:00.485 --> 27:01.753 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Reporter] Will you go into service as such? 27:01.753 --> 27:04.055 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - This would be 1,000% against 27:04.055 --> 27:06.424 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the teachings of the honorable Elijah Muhammad, 27:06.424 --> 27:08.660 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the religion of Islam and the holy Quran, 27:08.660 --> 27:09.995 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the holy book that we believe in. 27:09.995 --> 27:12.697 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This would all be denouncing and defying 27:12.697 --> 27:14.099 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% everything that I stand for. 27:14.099 --> 27:15.767 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Reporter] This would mean, of course, 27:15.767 --> 27:17.936 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that you stand the chance of going to jail 27:17.936 --> 27:20.705 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as a result of not going into service. 27:20.705 --> 27:22.040 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Well, whatever the punishment, 27:22.040 --> 27:23.541 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% whatever the persecution is 27:23.541 --> 27:25.910 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for standing up for my religious beliefs, 27:25.910 --> 27:28.813 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% even if it means facing machine gun fire that day, 27:28.813 --> 27:32.083 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I will face it before denouncing Elijah Muhammad 27:32.083 --> 27:33.385 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and the religion of Islam. 27:33.385 --> 27:34.619 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I'm ready to die. 27:34.619 --> 27:36.721 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (tense music) 27:36.721 --> 27:38.957 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - When I think about him saying, 27:38.957 --> 27:42.594 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "If they wanna put me before a firing squad tomorrow, 27:42.594 --> 27:45.196 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I'm ready to die before I abandon my religion." 27:50.301 --> 27:51.136 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% That's it. 27:53.438 --> 27:56.641 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You can't teach that kind of thing in lectures and books, 27:56.641 --> 27:59.277 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that kind of thing has to be modeled. 27:59.277 --> 28:01.546 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And models turn into traditions 28:01.546 --> 28:05.784 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and traditions provide people with the mechanical memory 28:05.784 --> 28:06.885 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to do the right thing. 28:08.286 --> 28:10.955 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That's what Muhammad Ali represented in that moment. 28:12.090 --> 28:15.126 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Anybody now faced with a major decision, 28:15.126 --> 28:16.861 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and what's the right way is clear 28:16.861 --> 28:18.263 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and the wrong way is clear, 28:18.263 --> 28:20.065 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but the consequences are dire, 28:20.065 --> 28:23.234 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% now they have a model that they can fall back on 28:23.234 --> 28:25.670 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% psychologically, emotionally, spiritually. 28:25.670 --> 28:28.373 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That's what Muhammad Ali represented in that moment. 28:28.373 --> 28:31.509 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And to me, that moment will live on forever. 28:39.417 --> 28:41.419 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - That right there, listen, 28:41.419 --> 28:46.424 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that part gives me chills every time I hear it. 28:47.792 --> 28:48.960 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Hearing Ali and then hearing Professor Jackson 28:48.960 --> 28:50.562 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% back to back like that. 28:50.562 --> 28:52.664 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I never heard that Ali quote before, 28:52.664 --> 28:54.332 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I thought I heard every Ali quote. 28:54.332 --> 28:56.034 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's a great thing about this documentary, 28:56.034 --> 28:57.268 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% is that just when you think 28:57.268 --> 28:58.803 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you know everything about this story, 28:58.803 --> 29:01.272 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% they come with a, pun intended, 29:01.272 --> 29:04.175 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a left hook that catches you off guard. 29:04.175 --> 29:07.979 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So I wanna start with Professor Jackson on this one. 29:09.447 --> 29:12.584 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% In 1967, Ali's boxing career is stripped away 29:12.584 --> 29:15.220 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% basically at the peak of his powers. 29:15.220 --> 29:16.688 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And when you think about 29:16.688 --> 29:19.090 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% how Ali basically sacrificed that part of his career 29:19.090 --> 29:20.692 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to not only stand in his beliefs, 29:20.692 --> 29:24.629 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but also hold a mirror to society, 29:24.629 --> 29:26.931 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what are some of the thoughts and emotions 29:26.931 --> 29:28.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that come to mind when you realize, 29:28.566 --> 29:31.603 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this guy really sacrificed the prime of his career, 29:31.603 --> 29:33.638 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then when you start piecing together 29:33.638 --> 29:35.106 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% the rest of his life, 29:35.106 --> 29:38.109 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% how much did America take away from Muhammad Ali 29:38.109 --> 29:39.544 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% when they made that decision? 29:42.080 --> 29:46.618 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - It's clear what was taken away from Muhammad Ali, 29:47.786 --> 29:51.156 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but for me, the more important thing is 29:51.156 --> 29:54.559 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what Muhammad Ali gave to America, 29:54.559 --> 29:57.195 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% gave to us all in that moment 29:57.195 --> 29:59.130 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% if we would but take it. 29:59.130 --> 30:03.268 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When I look at that clip of his saying, 30:03.268 --> 30:08.206 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "I'm ready to die," it says that 30:08.206 --> 30:11.309 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% we now don't have an excuse. 30:11.309 --> 30:13.311 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Knowing the right thing 30:13.311 --> 30:16.581 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and then fearing the consequences of doing the right thing 30:16.581 --> 30:20.385 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then to have those fears paralyze us 30:20.385 --> 30:23.254 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to the point that we don't do the right thing. 30:23.254 --> 30:25.657 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think that Muhammad Ali is an example 30:29.494 --> 30:30.962 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% that we need now 30:30.962 --> 30:32.697 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% perhaps more than any other time in our history, 30:34.098 --> 30:37.402 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because people are seeing the right thing to do, 30:37.402 --> 30:39.470 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% they know the right thing to do, 30:39.470 --> 30:41.239 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% but the powers that be 30:41.239 --> 30:44.943 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% can incentivize and disincentivize in such a way 30:44.943 --> 30:46.978 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that the right thing is never done. 30:46.978 --> 30:51.816 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And what I meant by mechanical memory in that statement 30:51.816 --> 30:56.788 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% was that through models that inspire us 30:58.022 --> 31:01.893 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then inspire the population at large, 31:03.294 --> 31:06.764 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we can go around all of those fears, 31:06.764 --> 31:09.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% all of that negative self-talk, 31:09.400 --> 31:12.770 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% all of the direct and indirect threats 31:12.770 --> 31:15.406 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that want to stop us from doing the right thing. 31:15.406 --> 31:18.042 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We can go around all of that 31:18.042 --> 31:20.578 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we can invoke our mechanical memory 31:20.578 --> 31:23.882 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% by looking at what doing the right thing looks like 31:23.882 --> 31:25.583 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and simply doing it. 31:25.583 --> 31:29.787 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And in that way, we all become empowered as a society. 31:29.787 --> 31:31.155 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And for that reason, 31:31.155 --> 31:34.826 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I really hope that Muhammad Ali's legacy 31:34.826 --> 31:37.228 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% will not be lost on America. 31:37.228 --> 31:40.832 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We don't have an excuse for not doing the right thing. 31:40.832 --> 31:42.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - You hit the nail on the head with that. 31:42.533 --> 31:44.235 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I wanna go to Ibtihaj next, 31:44.235 --> 31:46.504 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and feel free to respond to anything he just said. 31:46.504 --> 31:48.206 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But I do have a question for you. 31:48.206 --> 31:49.807 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Obviously you're an Olympic medalist, 31:49.807 --> 31:51.809 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which means you're one of the greatest athletes 31:51.809 --> 31:53.044 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% in the world, 31:53.044 --> 31:54.712 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but what was that process like for you? 31:54.712 --> 31:57.382 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Understanding, "Hey, sports is more 31:57.382 --> 31:59.918 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% than what I just see in a box score," 31:59.918 --> 32:02.553 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and what was the reaction towards you 32:02.553 --> 32:04.856 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% once you started to speak on these issues 32:04.856 --> 32:07.625 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that were very personal towards you and your community? 32:09.460 --> 32:11.996 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I knew from a really early age 32:11.996 --> 32:15.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that sports were just more than sports, 32:15.500 --> 32:18.970 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that my hijab, my skin color, 32:18.970 --> 32:20.238 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% even at times my gender 32:20.238 --> 32:23.041 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% had the power to change how people treated me, 32:23.041 --> 32:26.010 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and especially competing in a sport like fencing 32:26.010 --> 32:28.446 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that historically is very white. 32:28.446 --> 32:31.516 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% There was a lot of pushback just in my existence, 32:31.516 --> 32:35.887 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% especially as an athlete who was good as a kid. 32:35.887 --> 32:37.322 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% There was a lot of pushback in me 32:37.322 --> 32:39.524 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% just trying to exist in sport. 32:39.524 --> 32:41.793 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And you know, when you're really young, 32:41.793 --> 32:44.696 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you're not thinking about politics. 32:44.696 --> 32:47.999 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You're not thinking about religion, even. 32:47.999 --> 32:51.336 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You're just trying to play the game. 32:51.336 --> 32:54.939 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I've always found it really perplexing 32:54.939 --> 32:59.344 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% how officials and parents of other athletes, 32:59.344 --> 33:00.778 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and even sometimes other athletes 33:00.778 --> 33:04.749 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% can put their own biases, 33:04.749 --> 33:07.552 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% oftentimes implicit biases, onto you, 33:07.552 --> 33:10.154 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and you as a young Black athlete, 33:10.154 --> 33:11.322 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% as a young Muslim athlete, 33:11.322 --> 33:14.859 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% have to carry that with you through sport. 33:14.859 --> 33:16.894 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But one thing that I will say 33:16.894 --> 33:21.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is that knowing my history as an African-American, 33:21.666 --> 33:26.671 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and having such large, powerful sports figures in particular 33:28.473 --> 33:32.677 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% really lead the charge in forcing our society 33:34.545 --> 33:37.382 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to change and become more equitable 33:37.382 --> 33:39.784 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for people who look like me, 33:39.784 --> 33:44.789 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% allowed me to really navigate some difficult spaces 33:46.290 --> 33:49.660 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in instances throughout my career as a kid 33:49.660 --> 33:52.663 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but also in my professional career. 33:52.663 --> 33:55.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I don't think I would've been able to do 33:55.700 --> 33:58.036 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% what I was able to do in sport 33:59.170 --> 34:00.738 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and really transcends sport in a way, 34:00.738 --> 34:05.643 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% without having knowledge of these athletes before me, 34:05.643 --> 34:06.577 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% like Muhammad Ali. 34:06.577 --> 34:07.979 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I know I've said this, 34:07.979 --> 34:09.914 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I could say it until I'm blue in the face, 34:09.914 --> 34:13.284 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he really, honestly is a hero of mine. 34:13.284 --> 34:16.587 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And just like you said, Justin, 34:16.587 --> 34:19.123 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'd never heard that quote of his before. 34:19.123 --> 34:21.125 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And it makes me wonder 34:21.125 --> 34:25.997 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% if I'm willing to fall on the sword of faith 34:25.997 --> 34:29.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in that same manner. 34:29.000 --> 34:31.202 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Are you willing to give up everything 34:31.202 --> 34:33.271 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for the things that you believe in? 34:33.271 --> 34:37.875 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And that's why I feel so strongly about using my platform, 34:37.875 --> 34:40.111 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% even coming from such a small sport, 34:40.111 --> 34:42.447 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% using this moment in time 34:42.447 --> 34:45.149 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and having the opportunity to win an Olympic medal, 34:45.149 --> 34:47.552 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% using this in a meaningful way. 34:47.552 --> 34:50.321 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We have this one shot at life 34:50.321 --> 34:53.057 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and this one shot to get it right, 34:53.057 --> 34:56.294 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and to do what we can to better our communities, 34:56.294 --> 34:58.429 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% whether it be local or global, 34:58.429 --> 35:00.565 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and just try to make the world a better place. 35:00.565 --> 35:02.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I know that that sounds so difficult, 35:02.300 --> 35:05.770 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but we see what Muhammad Ali was able to do 35:05.770 --> 35:07.071 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with his time here on earth. 35:07.071 --> 35:10.808 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And honestly, it's revolutionary, 35:10.808 --> 35:13.611 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but it's so meaningful and so impactful in so many ways. 35:13.611 --> 35:15.680 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I agree with Dr. Jackson, 35:15.680 --> 35:19.117 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I pray that society doesn't forget 35:19.117 --> 35:21.085 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% all that he was able to do in his life 35:21.085 --> 35:24.655 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and really use that as motivation and encouragement for us 35:24.655 --> 35:26.791 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to do the same thing with ours. 35:26.791 --> 35:27.725 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 35:27.725 --> 35:29.260 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You speak about Muhammad Ali 35:29.260 --> 35:32.930 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% being a hero to many, including us. 35:32.930 --> 35:34.365 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I do have to say, 35:34.365 --> 35:36.234 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and I have to use a personal story at this moment. 35:36.234 --> 35:37.502 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I do have to say, 35:37.502 --> 35:39.737 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you are a hero to my younger cousin. 35:39.737 --> 35:42.340 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% She saw you in the 2016 Olympics 35:42.340 --> 35:43.641 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and she was just floored. 35:43.641 --> 35:45.476 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And she was like, "We can do that?" 35:45.476 --> 35:47.678 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I'm like, "Yeah, of course." 35:47.678 --> 35:50.515 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And just your representation and your presence alone, 35:50.515 --> 35:53.151 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it allowed myself and my other family members 35:53.151 --> 35:56.654 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to just have these really fascinating conversations. 35:56.654 --> 35:58.890 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You're not beholden by what 35:58.890 --> 36:01.893 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% stereotypes or society says you're only allowed to do. 36:01.893 --> 36:03.661 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You can do whatever you damn well please. 36:03.661 --> 36:06.097 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And you can be an Olympic athlete at it. 36:06.097 --> 36:09.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So on behalf of my family, I do want to say, 36:09.133 --> 36:12.537 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% thank you for just being a light and a beacon 36:12.537 --> 36:15.573 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and a force of representation. 36:15.573 --> 36:18.676 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You're opening doors that you may not even realize 36:18.676 --> 36:20.111 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that you open in your lifetime. 36:20.111 --> 36:21.379 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% So yes, 36:21.379 --> 36:23.981 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you are a hero just like Muhammad Ali is as well. 36:23.981 --> 36:25.850 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So we all got one life 36:25.850 --> 36:29.253 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and you're doing a pretty damn good job at it so far. 36:29.253 --> 36:30.821 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Well, I really appreciate that. 36:30.821 --> 36:33.124 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I just have to say that I think that 36:33.124 --> 36:34.792 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that unapologetic attitude, 36:34.792 --> 36:39.664 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and just being unapologetically Muslim 36:39.664 --> 36:41.465 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and unapologetically Black, 36:41.465 --> 36:42.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% so much of that, I think, 36:42.900 --> 36:46.470 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% comes from legacies like Muhammad Ali's legacy, 36:46.470 --> 36:48.940 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and him just being almost defiant 36:50.074 --> 36:52.310 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by society's standards and his Blackness 36:52.310 --> 36:54.078 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and in his identity as a Muslim. 36:54.078 --> 36:57.448 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I feel like even unconsciously, 36:57.448 --> 37:00.785 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% so many of us have inherited that, 37:00.785 --> 37:03.154 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that's why I'm so excited for this series 37:03.154 --> 37:05.022 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and to watch it, because like you said, Justin, 37:05.022 --> 37:07.024 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there's so many pieces of this puzzle 37:07.024 --> 37:08.893 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that I'm not even familiar with, 37:08.893 --> 37:11.295 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I just look forward to learning more. 37:11.295 --> 37:12.663 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 37:12.663 --> 37:13.831 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You're gonna be blown away, 37:13.831 --> 37:15.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I can promise you that. 37:15.533 --> 37:16.767 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% And Ken, 37:16.767 --> 37:18.236 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I wanna toss this question to you, 37:18.236 --> 37:20.671 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% just speaking about this episode in particular. 37:20.671 --> 37:24.675 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think one of the more fascinating subtleties 37:24.675 --> 37:25.943 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that I saw in this episode 37:25.943 --> 37:28.946 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% were the clips of the Black Vietnam soldiers 37:28.946 --> 37:31.782 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% speaking out in support of Muhammad Ali. 37:31.782 --> 37:35.086 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Why was this juxtaposition of Black men at war 37:35.086 --> 37:36.887 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% supporting another Black man who said, 37:36.887 --> 37:38.222 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "I didn't wanna go to war" 37:38.222 --> 37:40.925 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% so important to be featured in this film? 37:40.925 --> 37:42.226 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - I think it was important for us 37:42.226 --> 37:44.662 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to try to represent in every way 37:46.063 --> 37:50.234 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that Professor Jackson and Ms. Muhammad have said 37:50.234 --> 37:55.239 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that he did and to be conscious of all of this stuff. 37:56.707 --> 38:00.711 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So when he refuses induction into the United States Army, 38:02.146 --> 38:04.148 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% there are huge swaths, 38:04.148 --> 38:06.083 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a majority of white people are opposed to this, 38:06.083 --> 38:07.985 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% but so are a lot of Black people. 38:07.985 --> 38:09.253 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And we wanted to make sure 38:09.253 --> 38:11.589 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that people in the Black community 38:11.589 --> 38:13.624 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% also saw this as a principled stand, 38:13.624 --> 38:14.925 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% just as people in the white community. 38:14.925 --> 38:16.761 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I grew up on a college campus. 38:16.761 --> 38:18.863 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When he said what he said about the Vietcong, 38:18.863 --> 38:20.865 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% my dad and I were opposed to the war, 38:20.865 --> 38:22.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and we were thrilled by it. 38:22.400 --> 38:25.903 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He was and remained a hero from that. 38:25.903 --> 38:29.307 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So it's never all one thing or all the other. 38:29.307 --> 38:30.808 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And it's really important 38:30.808 --> 38:34.445 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that we don't fall into those kinds of traps all the time. 38:34.445 --> 38:37.014 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% When you say you hadn't seen that bit of footage, 38:37.014 --> 38:38.215 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of course you haven't, 38:38.215 --> 38:40.384 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because we have certain conventional wisdoms 38:40.384 --> 38:42.787 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and conventional ways of solving narrative 38:42.787 --> 38:44.055 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% about Muhammad Ali 38:44.055 --> 38:47.458 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the early period is this brash braggadocio, 38:47.458 --> 38:49.327 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% not the thoughtful person who's saying, 38:49.327 --> 38:50.895 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "I know I'm here for a purpose," 38:50.895 --> 38:52.997 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or "I'm willing to face machine gunfire." 38:52.997 --> 38:54.231 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% That's not that. 38:54.231 --> 38:55.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% There's another moment when the Supreme Court, 38:55.800 --> 38:57.201 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% on a technicality, 38:57.201 --> 38:59.503 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% liberates him from his prison sentence 38:59.503 --> 39:02.206 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and you'd expect him to be joyous 39:02.206 --> 39:04.542 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and reciting poetry and being in your face 39:04.542 --> 39:07.211 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and "I told you" and all of this, and he's not. 39:08.546 --> 39:10.948 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% When a reporter shoves a microphone in his face and says, 39:10.948 --> 39:12.483 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "What do you think about the system?" 39:12.483 --> 39:13.751 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% He says, "Well, 39:13.751 --> 39:15.786 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I don't know who's gonna be assassinated tonight. 39:15.786 --> 39:19.490 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I don't know who's gonna be denied justice for equality." 39:19.490 --> 39:21.258 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He's not thinking about himself. 39:21.258 --> 39:24.562 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He's not thinking about this minor victory of his 39:24.562 --> 39:26.030 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% after having sacrificed 39:26.030 --> 39:29.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the premiere period of his professional life. 39:29.033 --> 39:31.268 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He's thinking about the whole 350 years 39:31.268 --> 39:33.471 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of the treatment of Black people on this continent. 39:33.471 --> 39:34.805 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He's thinking about Emmett Till, 39:34.805 --> 39:37.441 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% not much older than him, whose open casket 39:37.441 --> 39:41.579 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% his mother had the courage to show to the world 39:41.579 --> 39:43.114 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and his father's frustrations, 39:43.114 --> 39:44.782 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% all the way back to 1619. 39:44.782 --> 39:47.518 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And he's also ranging ahead, is he not, 39:47.518 --> 39:51.589 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to people that we're gonna find out about. 39:51.589 --> 39:54.325 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He's saying Rodney King, he's saying Trayvon Martin, 39:54.325 --> 39:57.328 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he's saying Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old child, 39:57.328 --> 39:59.230 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and Breonna Taylor and George Floyd. 39:59.230 --> 40:01.565 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And unfortunately my list could go on 40:01.565 --> 40:03.134 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for hundreds and hundreds of others. 40:03.134 --> 40:05.269 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And yet he contained that in this moment. 40:05.269 --> 40:07.671 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Yeah, it's a victory for me, but," 40:07.671 --> 40:12.276 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that's where you see his immense power. 40:13.611 --> 40:15.346 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% When you said he was a superhero, 40:15.346 --> 40:17.214 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it's so interesting that in response 40:17.214 --> 40:19.784 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to the way he treated some of his opponents, 40:19.784 --> 40:21.952 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% particularly Joe Frazier, 40:21.952 --> 40:24.989 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% with the racist language of a bigot. 40:26.357 --> 40:28.459 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Todd Boyd in the film says, 40:28.459 --> 40:32.463 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "I just feel like he was using his powers for evil 40:32.463 --> 40:33.664 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and not for good." 40:33.664 --> 40:37.134 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I just went, "Yeah, he's a superhero. 40:37.134 --> 40:38.402 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% That's who he is." 40:38.402 --> 40:42.373 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% No Marvel comic, no tired, worn plots 40:42.373 --> 40:45.676 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and episode 27 of this series 40:45.676 --> 40:48.846 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% comes close to what a real superhero is. 40:48.846 --> 40:50.915 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Who's willing to, as you both said, 40:50.915 --> 40:55.085 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% fall on his sword in support of his beliefs 40:55.085 --> 40:58.155 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and to do what's right, Sherman, as you've said, 40:58.155 --> 41:00.891 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then all the other choices that he made, 41:00.891 --> 41:03.127 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which were the more difficult path. 41:03.127 --> 41:06.997 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I just find the dimensions to Muhammad Ali 41:06.997 --> 41:10.434 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% are dimensions upon dimensions upon dimensions. 41:10.434 --> 41:14.171 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And the fact that a hero has flaws is not surprising to me. 41:14.171 --> 41:15.906 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That's the nature of heroism. 41:15.906 --> 41:20.010 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The fact that he is a superhero with flaws, yes. 41:20.010 --> 41:21.979 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Achilles had his heel and his hubris 41:21.979 --> 41:23.681 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to go along with his great powers. 41:23.681 --> 41:25.783 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Tell me something new, right? 41:25.783 --> 41:28.519 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This is an extraordinary human being, 41:28.519 --> 41:30.621 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% one of the greatest human beings 41:30.621 --> 41:32.857 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that's ever strode the planet. 41:32.857 --> 41:34.592 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He happens to be a boxer. 41:35.960 --> 41:39.129 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's so mesmerizing to me. 41:39.129 --> 41:41.165 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it was one of the great pleasures 41:41.165 --> 41:43.701 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of my professional life to work with Sarah and Dave 41:43.701 --> 41:45.769 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the extraordinary team of editors 41:45.769 --> 41:47.338 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% watching the introduction, 41:47.338 --> 41:50.007 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% thinking of our editor of that episode, Kim Miille, 41:50.007 --> 41:52.676 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and how extraordinary a talent she is 41:52.676 --> 41:56.714 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to have put that opening together so well. 41:57.848 --> 41:59.984 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It is one of the privileges of my life 41:59.984 --> 42:03.087 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to be able to get to know this human being. 42:03.087 --> 42:04.522 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 42:04.522 --> 42:07.491 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You all put together a career-defining body of work 42:07.491 --> 42:10.628 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and something that will be a beautiful addition 42:10.628 --> 42:14.532 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to an already worldwide legacy that is Muhammad Ali. 42:14.532 --> 42:17.635 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But I wanna stick with religion for a little bit. 42:17.635 --> 42:21.005 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Many detractors saw Ali's conversion to Islam 42:21.005 --> 42:22.239 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% as a means of division. 42:22.239 --> 42:24.475 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And even later, they saw it as a tool for him 42:24.475 --> 42:27.411 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to avoid induction into the war. 42:27.411 --> 42:30.548 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But Ali's relationship with his new religion, 42:30.548 --> 42:32.383 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it was neither a publicity stunt 42:32.383 --> 42:34.151 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% or him following a trend. 42:34.151 --> 42:35.653 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% So Ken, 42:35.653 --> 42:38.322 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what can we expect to see in this next clip right here? 42:38.322 --> 42:39.256 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I think that's important. 42:39.256 --> 42:41.959 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% This is a kind of dismount clip. 42:41.959 --> 42:43.894 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% One thing to understand is, 42:43.894 --> 42:47.331 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this is from the fourth episode, towards the very end. 42:47.331 --> 42:50.134 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I think what we forget is that, 42:50.134 --> 42:52.836 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of course, when he refuses induction, 42:52.836 --> 42:56.340 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because he's a Black man and a Muslim, 42:56.340 --> 42:59.443 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% again, a couple of big strikes against him, 42:59.443 --> 43:02.713 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% his decision is seen as a political decision, as I said. 43:02.713 --> 43:04.582 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's not a faith-based decision. 43:04.582 --> 43:07.284 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's not a decision of conscience, 43:07.284 --> 43:09.086 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of real meaning and purpose. 43:09.086 --> 43:12.256 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It's relegated to the superficiality of politics, 43:12.256 --> 43:15.392 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which is just a simple binary on-off switch. 43:15.392 --> 43:16.226 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Good, bad. 43:16.226 --> 43:17.494 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% This was a bad thing. 43:17.494 --> 43:20.831 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And they forgot to take him as the whole person 43:20.831 --> 43:24.034 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and a person of faith and evolving faith, 43:24.034 --> 43:25.736 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% as Professor Jackson said. 43:25.736 --> 43:27.338 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That's the thing that's amazing. 43:29.306 --> 43:32.443 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% There's a moment when Michael J. Fox, 43:32.443 --> 43:37.147 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the Canadian actor who also has Parkinson's, 43:37.147 --> 43:39.249 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% said something that really influenced me. 43:39.249 --> 43:43.988 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He said, "I couldn't be still until I couldn't be still." 43:45.155 --> 43:48.425 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I don't mean this to be misinterpreted 43:48.425 --> 43:50.894 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because so many people fall into this trap 43:50.894 --> 43:54.999 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that now that he can't speak, Muhammad Ali's safe, right? 43:54.999 --> 43:57.835 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That's not what I'm trying to say. 43:57.835 --> 44:00.004 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But this most voluble of human beings, 44:00.004 --> 44:03.207 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% this loud, wonderful human being 44:03.207 --> 44:06.977 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% really spoke loudest when he could not speak 44:06.977 --> 44:09.013 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% because he carried on, 44:09.013 --> 44:12.216 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he carried on animated by a developing 44:12.216 --> 44:15.819 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and expansive and transcendent faith. 44:15.819 --> 44:20.824 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so this is just from the last years of Muhammad Ali, 44:21.959 --> 44:23.861 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a very brief clip that we'd like to show, 44:23.861 --> 44:26.096 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the last of the clips this evening. 44:26.096 --> 44:27.531 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And thank you, Justin. 44:27.531 --> 44:30.501 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (gentle music) 44:30.501 --> 44:31.835 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Narrator] His devotion to Islam 44:31.835 --> 44:34.905 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% increasingly shaped his daily routine. 44:34.905 --> 44:38.609 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He prayed five times each day facing Mecca, 44:38.609 --> 44:42.446 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% called friends to discuss the differences between religions, 44:42.446 --> 44:44.882 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and distributed autographed pamphlets 44:44.882 --> 44:46.917 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that he hoped would help correct 44:46.917 --> 44:49.253 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% common misperceptions about his faith. 44:51.455 --> 44:53.657 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When he traveled in the Muslim world, 44:53.657 --> 44:57.261 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% massive crowds greeted him as Muhammad Ali Clay 44:57.261 --> 44:58.962 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to distinguish their hero 44:58.962 --> 45:00.731 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% from thousands of faithful Muslims 45:00.731 --> 45:02.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% also named Muhammad Ali. 45:04.768 --> 45:08.372 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% During a goodwill visit to Pakistan in 1987, 45:08.372 --> 45:13.143 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Mohammed and Lonnie visited schools, hospitals, and mosques. 45:13.143 --> 45:16.747 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They delivered canned milk to an Afghan refugee camp 45:16.747 --> 45:17.981 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% along the border 45:17.981 --> 45:20.217 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and encouraged guerrilla fighters there 45:20.217 --> 45:21.618 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in their long struggle 45:21.618 --> 45:25.055 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to evict the occupying Soviet army from Afghanistan. 45:26.223 --> 45:28.592 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - He needed love like he needed air to breathe. 45:28.592 --> 45:30.427 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So the people did probably more for him 45:30.427 --> 45:31.361 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% than he did for them, 45:31.361 --> 45:33.130 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% if not at least equal, you know? 45:33.130 --> 45:35.432 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% So he was so grateful for the love they gave. 45:35.432 --> 45:37.401 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% He was so grateful for that. 45:37.401 --> 45:38.869 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - [Narrator] In 1989, 45:38.869 --> 45:41.138 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he was on the road more than at home, 45:41.138 --> 45:45.442 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% visiting England, Senegal, Switzerland, and Saudi Arabia. 45:46.877 --> 45:49.480 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% In April, he and Lonnie made a pilgrimage to Mecca 45:49.480 --> 45:52.049 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% during the holy month of Ramadan. 45:52.049 --> 45:57.054 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Ali had visited Mecca before, in 1972, but now admitted 45:58.388 --> 46:00.457 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that he hadn't fully appreciated its significance 46:00.457 --> 46:03.327 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and acknowledged that his commitment to his religion 46:03.327 --> 46:05.095 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% had long been imperfect. 46:06.296 --> 46:09.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "I fit my religion to do whatever I wanted." 46:09.066 --> 46:13.303 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I did things that were wrong and chased women all the time. 46:13.303 --> 46:16.974 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Everything I do now, I do to please Allah." 46:18.142 --> 46:19.643 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - One of my father's favorite sayings was, 46:19.643 --> 46:21.712 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "Rivers, lakes, and streams all have different names, 46:21.712 --> 46:23.614 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but they all contain water. 46:23.614 --> 46:25.149 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So do religions have different names, 46:25.149 --> 46:26.550 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but they all contain truth." 46:27.918 --> 46:29.419 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He always taught me that there's only one true religion 46:29.419 --> 46:31.855 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and that's the religion of the heart, he would say, 46:31.855 --> 46:33.991 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and as long as you do right, and you treat people right, 46:33.991 --> 46:35.225 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I believe you go to heaven 46:35.225 --> 46:36.393 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% no matter what you call your religion. 46:39.096 --> 46:41.165 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - You know, Dr. Jackson, 46:41.165 --> 46:42.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I wanna start with you 46:42.833 --> 46:45.135 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because it was mentioned in the clip 46:45.135 --> 46:48.806 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% how Ali evolved and grew into his faith. 46:48.806 --> 46:50.040 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I wanna talk about that 46:50.040 --> 46:52.309 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because I think that's a very fascinating topic 46:52.309 --> 46:54.278 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and a fascinating concept. 46:54.278 --> 46:56.647 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So just a broad question, 46:56.647 --> 46:59.116 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and feel free to take it wherever you need to. 46:59.116 --> 47:02.386 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% What was that religious maturation process 47:02.386 --> 47:04.121 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for someone like Muhammad Ali, 47:04.121 --> 47:06.723 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who had experienced so much in his life 47:06.723 --> 47:08.659 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% even before turning 30 years old? 47:12.262 --> 47:14.932 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - There's a real extent to which 47:17.367 --> 47:22.372 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a person is as good as they want to be. 47:24.208 --> 47:25.275 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% By which I mean that 47:26.376 --> 47:29.279 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it is what a person aspires to be 47:29.279 --> 47:32.282 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that will determine the texture 47:32.282 --> 47:34.151 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and the thrust of their life. 47:34.151 --> 47:38.522 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it's clear that from very early on, 47:38.522 --> 47:41.625 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Muhammad Ali was very sincere. 47:43.060 --> 47:47.130 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And as human beings, we are very complex entities. 47:47.130 --> 47:48.765 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The people we love the most 47:49.967 --> 47:52.469 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% often turn out to be the people we hurt the most. 47:52.469 --> 47:54.571 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Life is just dualistic like that. 47:56.306 --> 47:58.008 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so against some of our best wishes, 47:58.008 --> 47:59.643 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% our best intentions, 47:59.643 --> 48:01.478 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the best that we hope to be, 48:01.478 --> 48:05.916 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we don't always find the ability to live up to that. 48:05.916 --> 48:07.985 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And the mistake that many of us make, 48:07.985 --> 48:11.955 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and some of us are encouraged to make this mistake 48:11.955 --> 48:15.392 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% by people who can only see life in black and white terms, 48:15.392 --> 48:17.394 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the mistake we make is that 48:17.394 --> 48:21.498 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because we're not able to live the perfect life, 48:21.498 --> 48:24.902 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we give up on trying to live the better life, 48:24.902 --> 48:27.938 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the life that improves year after year 48:27.938 --> 48:30.240 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and decade after decade. 48:30.240 --> 48:32.576 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And Muhammad Ali did not let go 48:32.576 --> 48:35.045 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the person that he wanted to be, 48:35.045 --> 48:37.781 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the Muslim that he wanted to be. 48:37.781 --> 48:41.718 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And despite the fact that he did not often live up to that, 48:41.718 --> 48:46.723 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he continued to strive towards being that Muslim 48:47.457 --> 48:48.659 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that he wanted to be. 48:50.427 --> 48:52.296 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And that, to me, again, 48:54.031 --> 48:57.301 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that's a testament to his character. 48:58.902 --> 48:59.736 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I've always said, 49:01.171 --> 49:04.274 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Islam is a marathon. 49:05.509 --> 49:06.743 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It's not a sprint. 49:06.743 --> 49:09.212 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's not something you go from 0 to 60 49:09.212 --> 49:11.682 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in whatever number of seconds, 49:11.682 --> 49:16.119 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it's something that you achieve over a lifetime. 49:16.119 --> 49:19.589 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I think that it's really important 49:19.589 --> 49:22.559 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to remember those kinds of things about Muhammad Ali. 49:22.559 --> 49:25.329 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And let me just say one last thing here, 49:25.329 --> 49:30.167 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because people who may want to detract 49:30.167 --> 49:33.937 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% from the religious value of Muhammad Ali's life 49:33.937 --> 49:37.808 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% may often point to some of these indiscretions. 49:39.209 --> 49:41.478 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Well, let me share with you something 49:41.478 --> 49:43.080 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% from Muslim tradition. 49:45.148 --> 49:48.852 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They came to one of the famous imams, 49:48.852 --> 49:51.288 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, who is the leader 49:51.288 --> 49:54.958 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of one of the four schools of Islamic thought, 49:54.958 --> 49:57.194 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% considered to be one of the most stringent schools. 49:57.194 --> 49:58.028 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% And they said, 49:59.863 --> 50:03.734 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Who should we have to lead the army, 50:05.035 --> 50:07.571 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a pious person who is weak 50:08.772 --> 50:11.708 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or a person who's not so pious, but strong?" 50:12.743 --> 50:14.144 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And his answer was, 50:15.679 --> 50:17.214 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% "The pious person 50:19.016 --> 50:21.551 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% will benefit himself through his piety, 50:22.719 --> 50:25.255 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but we will suffer by his weakness. 50:26.390 --> 50:28.558 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And the impious person 50:28.558 --> 50:31.695 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% may harm himself through his impiety, 50:31.695 --> 50:35.799 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but we will benefit from his courage." 50:35.799 --> 50:37.634 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so I think we need to look at 50:37.634 --> 50:42.606 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what Muhammad Ali contributed to us as a society, right? 50:43.507 --> 50:46.009 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% He really did do something 50:46.009 --> 50:48.378 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that I think we need to do a lot more of, 50:48.378 --> 50:52.015 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that is to remind America of the fact 50:52.015 --> 50:53.917 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that it is not a place. 50:53.917 --> 50:55.919 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% America is a project, 50:55.919 --> 50:59.589 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and it's a project that seeks to bring together people 50:59.589 --> 51:01.992 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% from all over the planet 51:01.992 --> 51:05.162 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and to make a single political community 51:05.162 --> 51:07.631 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% out of many peoples. 51:07.631 --> 51:11.735 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so the idea that somehow he can't be American 51:11.735 --> 51:13.303 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% because he's Muslim, 51:13.303 --> 51:16.773 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that's actually going in the opposite direction 51:16.773 --> 51:18.642 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of the American project. 51:18.642 --> 51:22.946 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think Muhammad Ali really did remind people of that, 51:22.946 --> 51:25.182 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and through the way he lived his life, 51:25.182 --> 51:26.850 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% actually, in a sense, 51:26.850 --> 51:29.019 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% move the needle in that regard 51:29.019 --> 51:31.888 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to the point that we can see an Ibtihaj Muhammad today. 51:33.824 --> 51:35.725 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Muhammad Ali was as American as they come, 51:35.725 --> 51:38.395 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when you really break it down, as you just did. 51:38.395 --> 51:39.329 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% And Ibtihaj, 51:41.064 --> 51:43.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I wanna toss this next question to you. 51:43.166 --> 51:45.268 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We got a little less than 10 minutes left. 51:46.970 --> 51:48.472 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% When you just look at experiences 51:48.472 --> 51:50.507 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% like what Muhammad Ali went through in his life, 51:50.507 --> 51:52.776 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what you've gone through in your life, 51:52.776 --> 51:56.179 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what do you think is still the biggest misconception 51:56.179 --> 51:58.048 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% towards athletes and religion 51:58.048 --> 52:00.117 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that needs to be rectified moving forward? 52:01.251 --> 52:02.419 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Well, first of all, 52:02.419 --> 52:04.754 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it's tough to follow Dr. Jackson. 52:04.754 --> 52:07.991 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That was tough. (laughing) 52:11.061 --> 52:14.164 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think that Muhammad Ali really set the bar 52:14.164 --> 52:18.602 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% when it comes to just learning 52:18.602 --> 52:20.537 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to lean into your identities, 52:20.537 --> 52:25.542 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but also leaning into being American. 52:26.910 --> 52:31.148 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think that within the Black community specifically, 52:32.315 --> 52:36.453 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% even, because we come from an enslaved people 52:36.453 --> 52:40.857 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% there is this misconception 52:40.857 --> 52:45.862 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that there's no tie to America itself, 52:46.930 --> 52:49.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in a sense that there's almost a disdain 52:49.866 --> 52:54.271 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because our ancestors were brought here by force. 52:54.271 --> 52:57.974 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And what I love about Muhammad Ali's legacy 52:58.909 --> 53:00.877 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% is that even though 53:00.877 --> 53:03.613 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% his ancestors did not choose to come here 53:03.613 --> 53:06.016 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and were brought here on slave ships, 53:06.016 --> 53:07.751 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% he still loved America, 53:07.751 --> 53:11.721 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% even though he was forced to go to segregated schools, 53:11.721 --> 53:16.426 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% through that, he still had love for his country. 53:17.527 --> 53:19.329 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And even though it seems, 53:20.864 --> 53:24.634 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% during that time where he announced his conversion to Islam, 53:24.634 --> 53:26.770 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% American society turned against him, 53:26.770 --> 53:29.606 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I feel like he still had a love for his country 53:29.606 --> 53:34.611 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% even after he was convicted of draft dodging. 53:36.012 --> 53:38.048 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I just feel like through all those different moments, 53:38.048 --> 53:40.083 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he still showed a love for his country, 53:40.083 --> 53:45.088 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and he really showed us that you could be American 53:46.223 --> 53:48.325 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or that being Muslim was also being American 53:48.325 --> 53:50.327 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in this instance. 53:50.327 --> 53:54.030 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And even now today in 2021, 53:54.030 --> 53:55.999 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% 20 years after 9/11, 53:55.999 --> 54:00.203 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I still feel like Muslim Americans are fighting for 54:00.203 --> 54:05.075 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% just that common understanding that we too are American. 54:05.075 --> 54:07.143 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And what I was able to just take away 54:07.143 --> 54:08.645 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% from Muhammad Ali's career 54:08.645 --> 54:10.180 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% is that I don't need anyone 54:10.180 --> 54:12.649 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to define what I am for me. 54:12.649 --> 54:13.817 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I know what I am. 54:13.817 --> 54:15.919 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I don't need anyone to define it. 54:15.919 --> 54:18.188 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I don't need a society 54:18.188 --> 54:22.058 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that is often rooted in white supremacy 54:22.058 --> 54:27.063 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to define what my ancestors built for free, 54:30.500 --> 54:34.404 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what my position on Team USA should look like. 54:34.404 --> 54:36.273 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I feel like those are all things 54:36.273 --> 54:38.708 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that I've been able to understand 54:38.708 --> 54:42.579 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% through choosing to learn about American history, 54:42.579 --> 54:45.815 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% through studying it in school, 54:45.815 --> 54:48.585 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% through learning about it on my own. 54:48.585 --> 54:51.187 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Honestly, the public school system in the United States 54:51.187 --> 54:53.623 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% fails most of us, if not all of us. 54:54.991 --> 54:57.894 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And we owe it to ourselves to really understand 54:57.894 --> 54:59.562 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% how this country was built, 54:59.562 --> 55:02.098 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% how it still impacts us today 55:02.098 --> 55:04.668 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and why we all need to do the work 55:04.668 --> 55:07.871 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to create a more equitable world for all of us. 55:07.871 --> 55:10.140 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I feel like this is why 55:10.140 --> 55:12.509 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Muhammad Ali's life is so important, 55:12.509 --> 55:16.780 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in that he was able to blend so many different things, 55:16.780 --> 55:21.785 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% whether it be sports and religion or even politics, 55:23.086 --> 55:26.289 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he was able to so seamlessly blend those things 55:26.289 --> 55:29.225 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in a way that made them palatable for people 55:29.225 --> 55:31.761 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to really get a true understanding 55:31.761 --> 55:34.631 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of what it means to be connected 55:34.631 --> 55:36.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% along the lines of just being human 55:37.834 --> 55:40.136 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and being able to look past these things 55:40.136 --> 55:43.106 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that are social constructs. 55:44.307 --> 55:47.610 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - You mentioned what you learned in the classroom 55:47.610 --> 55:50.714 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and how that fails so many students each year. 55:50.714 --> 55:54.250 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% This is a documentary that needs to be shown in classrooms. 55:54.250 --> 55:59.255 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This is an example of a true, in-depth education 56:00.123 --> 56:01.925 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of a world icon who impacted 56:01.925 --> 56:03.860 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% so many pockets of everyday life. 56:03.860 --> 56:06.796 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So PBS is the largest classroom in America 56:06.796 --> 56:10.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and our films play regularly in them 56:10.233 --> 56:13.837 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% for 20, 30, 40 years. 56:13.837 --> 56:15.038 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% They're evergreen. 56:15.038 --> 56:17.774 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's why I've stayed with PBS, 56:17.774 --> 56:19.743 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% because of that ability 56:19.743 --> 56:23.413 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to intersect with the more pedagogical urgency 56:23.413 --> 56:26.282 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that Ms. Muhammad is talking about. 56:26.282 --> 56:29.953 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - That's a smart move. - (indistinct) Justin, 56:31.054 --> 56:32.455 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in relation to what I said before. 56:32.455 --> 56:34.691 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But I think that, especially in this moment 56:34.691 --> 56:37.327 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% through which we are presently living as a country, 56:37.327 --> 56:41.398 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think that what Muhammad Ali said to America, 56:41.398 --> 56:43.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we need to be reminded of this, 56:43.366 --> 56:48.371 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is that America is not simply an extension of Europe, right? 56:49.539 --> 56:51.374 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We are not bound by a single history, 56:51.374 --> 56:54.244 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by a single blood, by a single race. 56:54.244 --> 56:57.580 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We are a collection of people from all over the world 56:57.580 --> 57:00.917 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who have constitutionally agreed to live together 57:00.917 --> 57:02.752 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and to work out the terms 57:02.752 --> 57:05.188 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% upon which we are to live together. 57:07.657 --> 57:11.561 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I think that going through the 21st century, 57:11.561 --> 57:14.597 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one of the lessons that America has to learn 57:14.597 --> 57:16.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% as a part of the American project 57:16.966 --> 57:21.204 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is that we will not be able to see our way forward 57:21.204 --> 57:25.975 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% forever relying exclusively on a European heritage. 57:27.944 --> 57:30.213 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Let me add to Professor Jackson. 57:30.213 --> 57:31.815 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Let me add, if I could, Justin, 57:31.815 --> 57:33.483 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to what Professor Jackson just said. 57:33.483 --> 57:38.488 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I came across a quote from another holy man recently, 57:39.355 --> 57:41.558 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% different religion, but he said, 57:41.558 --> 57:43.393 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "All life is interrelated. 57:43.393 --> 57:44.961 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% All people are caught 57:44.961 --> 57:47.864 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in an inescapable network of mutuality, 57:47.864 --> 57:50.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% tied in a single garment of destiny. 57:50.733 --> 57:53.837 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. 57:53.837 --> 57:55.872 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I can never be what I ought to be 57:55.872 --> 57:58.041 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% until you are what you ought to be. 57:58.041 --> 58:00.076 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And you can never be what you ought to be 58:00.076 --> 58:02.412 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% until I am what I ought to be." 58:02.412 --> 58:03.780 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% That was Dr. King. 58:03.780 --> 58:07.617 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it's just an amazing, amazing quote 58:07.617 --> 58:09.986 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that speaks to exactly what Professor Jackson, 58:09.986 --> 58:12.489 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% everybody, indeed, tonight, 58:12.489 --> 58:13.923 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% but more importantly, 58:13.923 --> 58:17.126 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what Muhammad Ali was talking about all his life. 58:17.126 --> 58:21.898 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% As much as he had joined a separatist religious cult, 58:21.898 --> 58:25.502 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he was always integrated with everyone in the world, 58:25.502 --> 58:27.303 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and saw no distinctions, 58:27.303 --> 58:29.305 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% looked through the color of the skin, 58:29.305 --> 58:32.976 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% looked through to who the person was, 58:32.976 --> 58:35.278 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and with extraordinary generosity. 58:35.278 --> 58:36.613 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We begin the film with the quote 58:36.613 --> 58:38.515 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that service to others is the rent you pay 58:38.515 --> 58:39.649 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% for your room on earth. 58:39.649 --> 58:41.851 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% What's on his gravestone is, 58:41.851 --> 58:44.420 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Service to others is the rent you pay 58:44.420 --> 58:45.655 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for your room in heaven." 58:45.655 --> 58:49.425 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we know how spacious that room is. 58:49.425 --> 58:50.693 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 58:50.693 --> 58:52.428 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I know we've got a few more minutes left 58:52.428 --> 58:53.663 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% before we have to wrap it up. 58:53.663 --> 58:55.765 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm gonna pose this question to Ken, 58:55.765 --> 58:57.734 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% but the entire panel, 58:57.734 --> 59:01.504 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% feel free to jump in and express your thoughts. 59:01.504 --> 59:02.739 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It's so powerful to me 59:02.739 --> 59:04.207 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that we're having these conversations 59:04.207 --> 59:07.143 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on Muhammad Ali and race and religion, 59:07.143 --> 59:09.579 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% coming off a year like 2020, 59:09.579 --> 59:10.980 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% which we've already expressed 59:10.980 --> 59:13.683 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that the hurdles that we had to go through 59:13.683 --> 59:15.184 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to overcome that year 59:15.184 --> 59:17.887 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and hurdles that we're still having to overcome right now, 59:17.887 --> 59:19.255 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but it's also not lost on me 59:19.255 --> 59:20.790 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that we're having this conversation 59:20.790 --> 59:25.395 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% some 48 hours before the 20th anniversary of September 11th. 59:25.395 --> 59:27.630 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we can all remember how that tragedy 59:27.630 --> 59:30.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ignited so many uncomfortable conversations 59:30.300 --> 59:31.301 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% around race and religion, 59:31.301 --> 59:33.403 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and so many of which were rooted 59:33.403 --> 59:38.408 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in grossly unfair stereotypes and images. 59:39.542 --> 59:41.077 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So when people watch this episode 59:41.077 --> 59:43.413 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% when people watch this series, 59:43.413 --> 59:45.415 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% what is the biggest takeaway? 59:45.415 --> 59:46.950 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Not just from Muhammad Ali, 59:46.950 --> 59:49.652 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but around race and religion as a whole, 59:49.652 --> 59:52.121 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that you hope viewers come to understand 59:52.121 --> 59:53.990 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and apply in their everyday life. 59:55.358 --> 59:57.393 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, we don't want to say exactly 59:57.393 --> 01:00:00.763 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what everybody who watches the film should understand. 01:00:00.763 --> 01:00:02.065 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% That would be terrible. 01:00:02.065 --> 01:00:03.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We've presented a complex narrative, 01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:06.736 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and we want very much for people to feel like 01:00:06.736 --> 01:00:08.805 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% they can make up their own minds, 01:00:08.805 --> 01:00:10.073 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% but it's really clear, 01:00:10.073 --> 01:00:12.775 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a story about freedom and courage and love, 01:00:12.775 --> 01:00:14.711 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it's a complicated dynamic, 01:00:14.711 --> 01:00:16.546 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ever shifting kind of thing 01:00:16.546 --> 01:00:19.582 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that the freedom for a Black person in America 01:00:19.582 --> 01:00:21.517 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to escape the specific gravity 01:00:21.517 --> 01:00:23.252 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of what keeps you from being free, 01:00:23.252 --> 01:00:25.021 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and Muhammad Ali was free, 01:00:25.021 --> 01:00:26.623 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% are immense and challenging. 01:00:26.623 --> 01:00:28.758 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we hope the film has done that. 01:00:28.758 --> 01:00:30.760 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% A good deal of that freedom comes, 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:32.562 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as I think we've talked about tonight, 01:00:32.562 --> 01:00:34.097 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% through a spiritual path, 01:00:34.097 --> 01:00:36.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% an evolving spiritual path. 01:00:36.566 --> 01:00:39.102 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% That is important to know. 01:00:39.102 --> 01:00:41.104 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That it manifests in real conscience 01:00:41.104 --> 01:00:42.572 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and therefore courage 01:00:42.572 --> 01:00:46.209 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in the face of the momentum and norms of society. 01:00:46.209 --> 01:00:50.513 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And at the end, he dies the most beloved man on this planet. 01:00:50.513 --> 01:00:53.282 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And that's not for an accident. 01:00:53.282 --> 01:00:56.419 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That is because not only was he speaking to Black Americans, 01:00:56.419 --> 01:00:58.354 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% he was speaking to people who were oppressed 01:00:58.354 --> 01:00:59.188 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% across the world. 01:00:59.188 --> 01:01:00.556 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And when he said, 01:01:00.556 --> 01:01:01.658 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "I'm pretty as a girl and I'm attractive," 01:01:01.658 --> 01:01:03.359 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he's saying Black is beautiful, 01:01:03.359 --> 01:01:06.029 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but anyone who has felt the boot of the oppressor 01:01:06.029 --> 01:01:11.034 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% can find, in my example, a foothold, some purchase 01:01:12.201 --> 01:01:15.204 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% through which you can begin to sustain 01:01:15.204 --> 01:01:18.141 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% your own sense of drive, your own sense, 01:01:18.141 --> 01:01:20.410 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as Ms. Muhammad was saying, of who you were. 01:01:20.410 --> 01:01:23.012 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we stand on the shoulder of this giant, 01:01:23.012 --> 01:01:25.148 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% whoever we are, wherever we are, 01:01:25.148 --> 01:01:27.984 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to be the kind of person that we ought to be, 01:01:27.984 --> 01:01:30.053 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% knowing full well that that is, 01:01:30.053 --> 01:01:31.454 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% as Dr. King said, 01:01:31.454 --> 01:01:33.389 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in relationship to everyone else's struggle. 01:01:33.389 --> 01:01:35.258 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And America, the project, 01:01:35.258 --> 01:01:38.928 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is about the realization of all of those things. 01:01:38.928 --> 01:01:43.232 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so, we deal with 9/11 in the film 01:01:43.232 --> 01:01:45.868 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I hope that people will watch it 01:01:45.868 --> 01:01:48.738 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because Muhammad Ali was courageous, of course, 01:01:48.738 --> 01:01:51.307 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in his commenting about it 01:01:51.307 --> 01:01:52.542 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and about the discrimination 01:01:52.542 --> 01:01:54.977 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that was taking place against people 01:01:54.977 --> 01:01:58.147 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% simply because they were of the Muslim faith. 01:01:58.147 --> 01:02:00.650 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And I think this is it. 01:02:00.650 --> 01:02:05.588 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We have an ending comment by an extraordinary person, 01:02:05.588 --> 01:02:07.390 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Howard Bryant, in the film. 01:02:07.390 --> 01:02:08.958 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And in the middle of that, 01:02:08.958 --> 01:02:10.460 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% towards the very end of the film, 01:02:10.460 --> 01:02:13.162 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we cut away from him and we go to the Brooklyn Bridge, 01:02:13.162 --> 01:02:14.664 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% where a protest is taking place. 01:02:14.664 --> 01:02:16.132 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% A still photograph. 01:02:16.132 --> 01:02:19.702 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And we deliberately don't tell you what the protest is, 01:02:19.702 --> 01:02:22.705 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but you can feel it, that you know what it's about. 01:02:22.705 --> 01:02:25.074 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And we're zooming in very softly 01:02:25.074 --> 01:02:27.210 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% on a young Black woman 01:02:27.210 --> 01:02:28.845 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who has come to this demonstration 01:02:28.845 --> 01:02:30.713 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% without a placard or anything, 01:02:30.713 --> 01:02:33.716 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is wearing a simple black T-shirt with white lettering. 01:02:33.716 --> 01:02:36.652 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And all it says is "Muhammad Ali." 01:02:36.652 --> 01:02:41.457 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So in 2020 or 2019, when this took place, 01:02:41.457 --> 01:02:43.426 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% she felt that what she needed 01:02:43.426 --> 01:02:48.064 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to express her participation in this event 01:02:48.064 --> 01:02:50.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% was a commitment to a human being 01:02:50.700 --> 01:02:53.703 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that was dedicated to freedom, courage, and love. 01:02:53.703 --> 01:02:56.839 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that, at the end of the day, says it all, 01:02:56.839 --> 01:03:01.744 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and why he has to exist in the pantheon of all Americans, 01:03:02.612 --> 01:03:04.480 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% up there with the greatest, 01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:09.485 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Louis Armstrong and Dr. King and Abraham Lincoln, 01:03:11.554 --> 01:03:12.722 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% all of these people, 01:03:12.722 --> 01:03:15.024 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% he co-exists on that level 01:03:15.024 --> 01:03:19.529 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because of the freedom he sought and achieved, 01:03:19.529 --> 01:03:21.798 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the courage that he exhibited throughout 01:03:22.965 --> 01:03:26.369 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the love he was an apostle of. 01:03:27.570 --> 01:03:29.138 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% There's a wonderful shot of him with the Beatles 01:03:29.138 --> 01:03:31.040 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the Fifth Street gym as they're training. 01:03:31.040 --> 01:03:35.444 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I'm thinking, these five men, only two survive. 01:03:35.444 --> 01:03:37.446 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Understood what one of the survivors, 01:03:37.446 --> 01:03:38.314 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Paul McCartney, said, 01:03:38.314 --> 01:03:39.782 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% "And in the end, 01:03:39.782 --> 01:03:42.018 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the love you take is equal to the love you make." 01:03:42.018 --> 01:03:44.086 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We are looking at a human being 01:03:44.086 --> 01:03:47.857 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% which was a manufacturing plant of love. 01:03:48.791 --> 01:03:49.725 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 01:03:49.725 --> 01:03:51.327 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I know we gotta wrap up, 01:03:51.327 --> 01:03:54.030 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but I just wanna thank all of the panelists. 01:03:54.030 --> 01:03:57.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I learned so much just in this discussion alone right here. 01:03:57.266 --> 01:03:59.368 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This was a true honor and privilege for me 01:03:59.368 --> 01:04:03.105 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to just be able to talk about a walking beacon of truth 01:04:03.105 --> 01:04:04.373 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that is Muhammad Ali. 01:04:04.373 --> 01:04:06.342 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow. 01:04:06.342 --> 01:04:07.910 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Sometimes the truth is complex. 01:04:07.910 --> 01:04:10.012 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Sometimes the truth can get it wrong, 01:04:10.012 --> 01:04:11.814 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but at the end of the day, the truth is right. 01:04:11.814 --> 01:04:14.550 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And he lived a life of purpose. 01:04:14.550 --> 01:04:16.085 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He lived a life of righteousness. 01:04:16.085 --> 01:04:18.588 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And again, it was just an honor and privilege 01:04:18.588 --> 01:04:21.023 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to be able to talk to all three of you about this. 01:04:21.023 --> 01:04:22.925 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And again, please watch this documentary 01:04:22.925 --> 01:04:24.126 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% once it begins to air 01:04:24.126 --> 01:04:27.396 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on September 19th on PBS at 8:00 PM Eastern. 01:04:28.831 --> 01:04:31.334 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Any last thoughts, feel free to get them out here, 01:04:31.334 --> 01:04:32.768 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but just thank you all so much. 01:04:32.768 --> 01:04:34.170 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And thank you to everybody 01:04:34.170 --> 01:04:36.138 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who tuned into this event virtually. 01:04:38.307 --> 01:04:40.243 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% On behalf of everybody, thank you. 01:04:40.243 --> 01:04:41.177 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Thank you, Justin. 01:04:41.177 --> 01:04:42.612 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We're so pleased to be here. 01:04:42.612 --> 01:04:43.946 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Thank you. - Thank you. 01:04:43.946 --> 01:04:45.882 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Thanks for having us.