1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:01,133 (guitar music) 2 00:00:01,133 --> 00:00:05,033 - [Man] Montana AG Live is made possible by 3 00:00:05,033 --> 00:00:07,566 the Montana Department of Agriculture, 4 00:00:07,566 --> 00:00:10,166 the MSU Extension Service, 5 00:00:10,166 --> 00:00:12,200 the MSU AG Experiment Stations 6 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,633 of the College of Agriculture, 7 00:00:14,633 --> 00:00:17,466 the Montana Wheat and Barley Committee, 8 00:00:17,466 --> 00:00:20,300 the Montana Bankers Association, 9 00:00:20,300 --> 00:00:23,066 Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, 10 00:00:23,066 --> 00:00:25,866 and the Gallatin Gardeners Club. 11 00:00:25,866 --> 00:00:28,533 (country music) 12 00:00:32,533 --> 00:00:35,900 ♪ If your herbicides and fungicides and pesticides are old 13 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:39,600 ♪ The veggies you are growing in your garden start to mold 14 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,233 ♪ If the ants are attacking and you're having a hard time 15 00:00:43,233 --> 00:00:46,800 ♪ Call Montana AG Live 16 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,300 ♪ Knapweed in the ditch and the old bull's got an itch 17 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:53,866 ♪ Ticks upon my sheep and the wool is really cheap 18 00:00:53,866 --> 00:00:58,200 ♪ The gophers in the pasture are even worse than last year 19 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,900 ♪ Montana AG Live, where are you? 20 00:01:01,900 --> 00:01:04,566 (country music) 21 00:01:11,433 --> 00:01:14,300 - Good evening and welcome to Montana AG Live, 22 00:01:14,300 --> 00:01:16,800 brought to you from the KUSM Studio 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,766 at beautiful Montana State University in Bozeman. 24 00:01:20,766 --> 00:01:23,100 We've got a great show for you today. 25 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:25,633 I know everybody's really getting excited 26 00:01:25,633 --> 00:01:27,000 with the warm weather that we've had 27 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,900 after that cold April, 28 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:30,733 farmers are in the field planting 29 00:01:30,733 --> 00:01:33,233 as quickly as they can. 30 00:01:33,233 --> 00:01:35,600 Gardeners are out working in their gardens 31 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,100 and we're just all really ready 32 00:01:38,100 --> 00:01:40,733 to get into all the topics that we're talking about tonight, 33 00:01:40,733 --> 00:01:42,933 so we've got a great panel for you tonight. 34 00:01:42,933 --> 00:01:45,733 We're gonna be talking a lot about organic agriculture, 35 00:01:45,733 --> 00:01:48,333 different alternative crops. 36 00:01:48,333 --> 00:01:52,466 On the anchor position today is Perry Miller. 37 00:01:52,466 --> 00:01:54,533 Perry does a lot of work with pulse crops 38 00:01:54,533 --> 00:01:58,666 and also some research in organic farming. 39 00:01:58,666 --> 00:01:59,733 We have Bob Quinn. 40 00:01:59,733 --> 00:02:02,633 Bob is from Big Sandy and he's an organic farmer 41 00:02:02,633 --> 00:02:06,000 and probably one of the, I would say, 42 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,533 premiere larger organic farmers in the state 43 00:02:09,533 --> 00:02:12,066 and has definitely been a pioneer in that industry 44 00:02:12,066 --> 00:02:14,000 for us in Montana. 45 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,933 Gary Brester, AG economics. 46 00:02:16,933 --> 00:02:20,200 He's going to talk about cattle, wheat, 47 00:02:21,633 --> 00:02:24,400 anything that has to do with agriculture in Montana, 48 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,366 and we all know Toby Day. 49 00:02:26,366 --> 00:02:27,700 As things are beginning to grow, 50 00:02:27,700 --> 00:02:29,266 there's a lot to talk about in our gardens 51 00:02:29,266 --> 00:02:31,700 and yards and so we'll go to Toby for that. 52 00:02:31,700 --> 00:02:33,066 I'm Nina Zidack. 53 00:02:33,066 --> 00:02:35,100 I work with the Seed Potato Certification Program 54 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:37,200 at MSU here in Bozeman. 55 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,933 I'd like to introduce our panel tonight. 56 00:02:39,933 --> 00:02:42,666 We have Dylan Mangle, Don Mathry, 57 00:02:45,033 --> 00:02:47,200 and Sheryl Moregoff. 58 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,100 So thanks for answering the phones 59 00:02:49,100 --> 00:02:51,400 and first to get started tonight, 60 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,900 just like to have Bob explain a little bit 61 00:02:53,900 --> 00:02:55,833 about his farm in Big Sandy, 62 00:02:55,833 --> 00:02:58,033 a little bit about how you got into organic farming 63 00:02:58,033 --> 00:03:00,233 and how it's working for you. 64 00:03:00,233 --> 00:03:01,366 - Well, thanks Nina. 65 00:03:01,366 --> 00:03:02,233 It's great to be here. 66 00:03:02,233 --> 00:03:05,500 I appreciate very much the invitation. 67 00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:07,766 The organic, how it's going is great. 68 00:03:07,766 --> 00:03:09,900 How I got into is a little longer story. 69 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:13,166 We started about 30 years ago. 70 00:03:13,166 --> 00:03:14,733 We were selling organic grain 71 00:03:14,733 --> 00:03:17,266 and I began to meet some organic farmers 72 00:03:17,266 --> 00:03:19,533 and I was quite jealous that they didn't 73 00:03:19,533 --> 00:03:21,133 have to spray anymore, 74 00:03:21,133 --> 00:03:22,233 and I thought, "Well, I wonder if this 75 00:03:22,233 --> 00:03:23,200 "could work at our house." 76 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,433 And my dad said, "Oh, this is really too risky." 77 00:03:25,433 --> 00:03:27,366 So we started with 20 acres, 78 00:03:27,366 --> 00:03:31,533 and that was 1% of our cropping area at that time, 79 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:35,033 and my dad said, "Oh, that's safe. 80 00:03:35,033 --> 00:03:36,100 "We can do that." 81 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:37,666 And lo and behold, the first experiment 82 00:03:37,666 --> 00:03:40,900 came back and it was every bit as good as the chemical 83 00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:42,800 field right next to it, 84 00:03:43,866 --> 00:03:46,300 and so I jumped in head first 85 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:50,000 and within two years our whole farm was without chemicals 86 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,766 and within two more years certified organic, 87 00:03:52,766 --> 00:03:54,000 and never looked back. 88 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,433 To me, it's just like a great puzzle, 89 00:03:56,433 --> 00:03:59,833 figuring out how to address wheat problems, 90 00:03:59,833 --> 00:04:01,133 soil fertility problems 91 00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:04,466 and to me, they're just opportunities 92 00:04:04,466 --> 00:04:06,433 and the market's have been great to us. 93 00:04:06,433 --> 00:04:08,800 We don't have an operating note anymore, 94 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,633 after about three years, 95 00:04:10,633 --> 00:04:12,266 and put all my kids through college with it 96 00:04:12,266 --> 00:04:13,333 and it's been great. 97 00:04:13,333 --> 00:04:15,400 - Great, well, we'll get into some of those details 98 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,666 on wheat control and soil management later. 99 00:04:18,666 --> 00:04:21,566 So we'll start off with Perry, tonight. 100 00:04:21,566 --> 00:04:23,966 Question from eastern Montana, 101 00:04:23,966 --> 00:04:27,533 if I grow peas and lentils in a cover crop cocktail, 102 00:04:27,533 --> 00:04:30,133 it interferes with crop insurance. 103 00:04:30,133 --> 00:04:32,900 What can I grow for legumes in the mix? 104 00:04:32,900 --> 00:04:34,766 - Right, this is a problem that's been coming 105 00:04:34,766 --> 00:04:36,333 up a little bit, I guess, 106 00:04:36,333 --> 00:04:38,066 because in these cover crop cocktails, 107 00:04:38,066 --> 00:04:39,900 it's pretty common to throw peas or lentil seed 108 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:42,466 in the mix and that, apparently, 109 00:04:42,466 --> 00:04:45,600 is considered as growing that crop, 110 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,500 and so if you were planning to come back 111 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:50,200 with peas or lentils within a year or two of 112 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,200 that cover crop cocktail 113 00:04:53,066 --> 00:04:55,566 then you'd be in violation of the crop insurance, 114 00:04:55,566 --> 00:04:57,666 so you have to wait at least two years 115 00:04:57,666 --> 00:05:00,000 after that cover crop or choose a difference legume 116 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,800 in the mix and so there are a couple things. 117 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,566 There's something called chickling vetch, 118 00:05:04,566 --> 00:05:06,600 that is an annual legume that you can get 119 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,766 ahold of the seed and it does a pretty nice job 120 00:05:08,766 --> 00:05:10,100 of fixing nitrogen, 121 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:11,833 and we're working on faba beans also, 122 00:05:11,833 --> 00:05:13,266 small seeded faba beans, 123 00:05:13,266 --> 00:05:14,766 which would also do a nice job 124 00:05:14,766 --> 00:05:17,100 of filling that void so that you didn't 125 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:19,033 have to have a pea or a lentil in that mix 126 00:05:19,033 --> 00:05:20,666 for the legume component. 127 00:05:20,666 --> 00:05:21,500 - That's interesting. 128 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:22,433 I didn't realize that. 129 00:05:22,433 --> 00:05:26,833 So is there any possibility that in the future 130 00:05:26,833 --> 00:05:28,866 crop insurance regulations might change 131 00:05:28,866 --> 00:05:30,900 to actually accommodate incorporating 132 00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:34,300 more cover crops into the rotation system? 133 00:05:34,300 --> 00:05:36,200 - Anything is possible. 134 00:05:37,566 --> 00:05:38,866 I laugh a little bit 'cause Bob and I 135 00:05:38,866 --> 00:05:40,833 have been in some cover crop discussions 136 00:05:40,833 --> 00:05:44,066 and it's a little more conservative 137 00:05:44,066 --> 00:05:46,266 or resistant to change than you might think. 138 00:05:46,266 --> 00:05:47,566 - This is really the hope. 139 00:05:47,566 --> 00:05:48,600 The problem with the government 140 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,100 is that they're always following, 141 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:51,700 they're hardly ever leading, 142 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:54,700 and it's up to us, I think, to be in the leading edge 143 00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:56,266 and try to explain to them 144 00:05:56,266 --> 00:05:59,966 how they're lowering risk with these kinds of mixtures 145 00:05:59,966 --> 00:06:04,300 and it's actually a benefit to the insurance people, 146 00:06:04,300 --> 00:06:08,500 because you're lowering risk and having more possibility 147 00:06:08,500 --> 00:06:11,466 for no insurance payments required. 148 00:06:11,466 --> 00:06:14,700 - Huh, that's a very interesting issue. 149 00:06:15,933 --> 00:06:19,466 Toby, from Augusta, this person has hybrid poplars 150 00:06:19,466 --> 00:06:21,633 that have reached the end of their life span. 151 00:06:21,633 --> 00:06:24,300 They have cankers in the upper branches. 152 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:26,900 They would like to replant Dakota cottonwoods 153 00:06:26,900 --> 00:06:28,633 and they want to know if the spores 154 00:06:28,633 --> 00:06:32,433 from the cankers will transfer to the cottonwoods. 155 00:06:32,433 --> 00:06:35,900 - Well, okay, so whenever I talk to 'em, 156 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:37,333 master gunners, I always tell them 157 00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:39,033 that you have to be really careful 158 00:06:39,033 --> 00:06:41,500 about any kind of diseases or insects 159 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:45,000 that are going in the same genera. 160 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,733 So since the hybrid poplars and the Dakota poplars 161 00:06:48,733 --> 00:06:50,033 are all in the same genera, 162 00:06:50,033 --> 00:06:51,266 there's a really good chance 163 00:06:51,266 --> 00:06:55,233 that you can spread insect and disease issues 164 00:06:55,233 --> 00:06:56,633 to the next tree. 165 00:06:57,633 --> 00:07:00,833 That being said, when I hear about growths 166 00:07:00,833 --> 00:07:03,400 or cankers on the top of cottonwood trees, 167 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,000 I'm gonna guess that that actually is probably 168 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,466 a gall caused by an insect rather than an actual disease. 169 00:07:10,466 --> 00:07:11,833 I would get it identified. 170 00:07:11,833 --> 00:07:13,533 Bring it to your county extension agent 171 00:07:13,533 --> 00:07:16,333 or reservation agent and make sure 172 00:07:16,333 --> 00:07:18,333 that that's exactly what it is. 173 00:07:18,333 --> 00:07:20,933 If it's just the insect, it's really cosmetic 174 00:07:20,933 --> 00:07:22,600 and really doesn't cause too much of an issue. 175 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,166 It's a Eriophyid mite that causes the growth. 176 00:07:25,166 --> 00:07:27,800 If it's a true canker, then they're decline, 177 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,466 then yes, you can put in new trees 178 00:07:29,466 --> 00:07:33,166 but first of all, it's ubiquitous, the Cytospora 179 00:07:33,166 --> 00:07:36,366 or whatever it might be is pretty much everywhere, 180 00:07:36,366 --> 00:07:38,933 so you can probably still put in those cottonwoods. 181 00:07:38,933 --> 00:07:41,733 I wouldn't necessarily say not to, 182 00:07:41,733 --> 00:07:44,400 but there is a chance that those spores 183 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:45,833 can go from one tree to the next. 184 00:07:45,833 --> 00:07:47,733 - Right and always taking into consideration 185 00:07:47,733 --> 00:07:50,900 that any poplar, cottonwood are 186 00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:53,000 a reasonably short lived tree. - Mm hmm. 187 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,133 - And so they naturally could just be 188 00:07:55,133 --> 00:07:56,500 at the end of their lifespan 189 00:07:56,500 --> 00:07:59,433 and renewing a planting still might be a good option. 190 00:07:59,433 --> 00:08:00,833 - Absolutely. 191 00:08:00,833 --> 00:08:02,733 There's a lot of other options that are out there 192 00:08:02,733 --> 00:08:03,866 other than cottonwoods, 193 00:08:03,866 --> 00:08:07,000 but the Dakota cottonwood I know is very popular right now, 194 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,266 and it's not a bad tree, really. 195 00:08:09,266 --> 00:08:12,500 For a lot of situations. - Okay. 196 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:15,533 Okay, Gary, I know this is a frustrating thing 197 00:08:15,533 --> 00:08:17,600 for a lot of people dealing with the different 198 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,533 cycles with crop prices, 199 00:08:19,533 --> 00:08:21,600 and wheat prices are low right now. 200 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:22,666 - Yeah. - Why? 201 00:08:24,766 --> 00:08:27,700 - It doesn't take much to be good at economics. 202 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:30,033 You just have to understand supply and demand 203 00:08:30,033 --> 00:08:32,566 and especially with grains, 204 00:08:32,566 --> 00:08:35,866 demand is pretty stable, it doesn't move a lot. 205 00:08:35,866 --> 00:08:37,833 So you really look at the supply side. 206 00:08:37,833 --> 00:08:40,400 We've had three years in a row now 207 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,166 of world record wheat production. 208 00:08:45,366 --> 00:08:48,133 We often think only of our state or our region, 209 00:08:48,133 --> 00:08:49,533 and say, "How was wheat last year? 210 00:08:49,533 --> 00:08:50,800 "Do we have a big crop, small crop?" 211 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,766 The reality of it is, Montana produces 212 00:08:52,766 --> 00:08:55,800 about 8% of US wheat production. 213 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,700 US produces about 9% of world production, 214 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:01,833 so even if the US has a low year 215 00:09:01,833 --> 00:09:05,966 what really matters is that along with the other 90% 216 00:09:05,966 --> 00:09:07,633 of what's produced around the world, 217 00:09:07,633 --> 00:09:08,700 and the last three years, 218 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:09,933 it's just been very, very strong. 219 00:09:09,933 --> 00:09:12,333 So right now, we have wheat prices 220 00:09:12,333 --> 00:09:14,966 about where their long run average has been, 221 00:09:14,966 --> 00:09:16,933 if you look over the long haul. 222 00:09:16,933 --> 00:09:19,233 It's not unusual to see this rollercoaster effect 223 00:09:19,233 --> 00:09:21,500 of high prices and low prices as a result 224 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:23,333 of changes in weather, 225 00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:25,200 and as far as forecasting prices, 226 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,500 it's very, very easy to do. 227 00:09:26,500 --> 00:09:28,666 You just tell me what world weather's gonna be this year. 228 00:09:28,666 --> 00:09:30,866 (laughing) And I'll give you the price. 229 00:09:30,866 --> 00:09:31,933 - There you go. - Yeah, it's a very 230 00:09:31,933 --> 00:09:33,866 simple process, but again, 231 00:09:33,866 --> 00:09:35,233 it brings up the really important thing, 232 00:09:35,233 --> 00:09:36,300 was already mentioned earlier, 233 00:09:36,300 --> 00:09:37,866 on the production side of the importance 234 00:09:37,866 --> 00:09:39,466 of managing price risk, 235 00:09:39,466 --> 00:09:42,000 especially when one has an opportunity 236 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,466 to market some grain ahead of time. 237 00:09:44,466 --> 00:09:47,700 The futures or options, forward contracting 238 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:48,900 sorts of things. 239 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:50,933 The importance of trying to manage the price risk side 240 00:09:50,933 --> 00:09:53,533 is every bit as important as the production risk side. 241 00:09:53,533 --> 00:09:57,100 - So I'd like to just lob this one back to Bob now. 242 00:09:57,100 --> 00:10:00,233 How are the organic wheat prices compared 243 00:10:00,233 --> 00:10:02,366 to conventionally grown wheat right now? 244 00:10:02,366 --> 00:10:05,933 - Well, last year conventional prices were bouncing 245 00:10:05,933 --> 00:10:07,433 around three to four dollars 246 00:10:07,433 --> 00:10:10,866 and the organic prices were 15 or better. 247 00:10:10,866 --> 00:10:14,366 Organic spring wheat was up to 18 to 20, 248 00:10:14,366 --> 00:10:18,500 so that's very unusual to be five times more, 249 00:10:18,500 --> 00:10:20,133 but for those that have organic, 250 00:10:20,133 --> 00:10:23,033 they were really making out like bandits last year, 251 00:10:23,033 --> 00:10:26,166 but we normally see that the prices 252 00:10:26,166 --> 00:10:28,600 for organic is at least twice 253 00:10:30,233 --> 00:10:31,433 and so to have it five times, 254 00:10:31,433 --> 00:10:32,633 that's quite unusual. 255 00:10:32,633 --> 00:10:35,133 But boy, for the people that had 256 00:10:35,133 --> 00:10:37,166 also a good price and a good crop, 257 00:10:37,166 --> 00:10:39,800 it was very well appreciated last year. 258 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,933 - So what is the peak organic wheat price? 259 00:10:42,933 --> 00:10:46,166 When conventional wheat was 11 or 12 dollars a bushel 260 00:10:46,166 --> 00:10:49,066 what did organic peak out at? 261 00:10:49,066 --> 00:10:50,733 - Well, normally when the conventional prices 262 00:10:50,733 --> 00:10:53,800 start going up so high, the organic doesn't keep going 263 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,700 at the same ratio above that. 264 00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:58,833 The thing that's driving it right now is, 265 00:10:58,833 --> 00:11:00,666 as Gary mentioned, is supply and demand. 266 00:11:00,666 --> 00:11:02,500 It's a very, much more demand 267 00:11:02,500 --> 00:11:04,200 than we can supply in this country. 268 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,533 In fact, almost 40% of our grain 269 00:11:06,533 --> 00:11:08,500 for organic is now being imported, 270 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:09,533 and this insane. 271 00:11:09,533 --> 00:11:12,800 I mean, local farmers could be cashing in on these prices, 272 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,400 and yet, the foreign farmers are the ones cashing in, 273 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,666 and so it's really a paradox 274 00:11:18,666 --> 00:11:21,833 that many of our neighbors can't pay the chemical bills 275 00:11:21,833 --> 00:11:23,133 because of these low prices, 276 00:11:23,133 --> 00:11:25,500 even with good years and yet, 277 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:28,833 the conversion organic is quite slow 278 00:11:28,833 --> 00:11:32,133 and I've had, however, more calls 279 00:11:32,133 --> 00:11:33,266 in the last six months than I've had 280 00:11:33,266 --> 00:11:35,333 in the last 20 years. 281 00:11:35,333 --> 00:11:38,866 People calling and asking how they can convert 282 00:11:38,866 --> 00:11:40,733 and how they can start the conversion process, 283 00:11:40,733 --> 00:11:44,566 because the future of high prices for chemicals 284 00:11:44,566 --> 00:11:46,133 and low prices for grains, 285 00:11:46,133 --> 00:11:50,300 when that happens, it's a death toll for some farms. 286 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,733 - So Bob, I'm sure organic isn't for everybody. 287 00:11:54,733 --> 00:11:58,733 When you get calls about, "Is this for me?" 288 00:11:58,733 --> 00:12:00,900 What do you worry about for a risk factor 289 00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:02,500 for somebody who might be thinking 290 00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:03,733 that this is gonna save their farm 291 00:12:03,733 --> 00:12:06,900 or going to be a real answer for them. 292 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:11,766 Can anybody succeed at this or what does it take? 293 00:12:11,766 --> 00:12:14,600 - Anybody who wants to can succeed. 294 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:15,600 I believe that. - Okay. 295 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,133 - But the one's that call normally are those that want to. 296 00:12:19,133 --> 00:12:21,566 If you don't believe in it, just like most things, 297 00:12:21,566 --> 00:12:23,600 if you don't believe in something, 298 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,133 if you think something will work or will not work, 299 00:12:26,133 --> 00:12:27,533 usually you're right. 300 00:12:27,533 --> 00:12:30,166 If you think it will not work, you're probably right. 301 00:12:30,166 --> 00:12:32,333 But if you think that it will, 302 00:12:32,333 --> 00:12:34,166 you're also probably right. 303 00:12:34,166 --> 00:12:36,200 And because the people that believe in something 304 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,266 go out and try to figure out how to make it work, 305 00:12:39,266 --> 00:12:41,866 and they solve the problems. 306 00:12:41,866 --> 00:12:45,366 The biggest caution I give people, to answer your 307 00:12:45,366 --> 00:12:47,633 question about the risks is to start small. 308 00:12:47,633 --> 00:12:49,100 Don't start with the whole farm, 309 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:51,933 and the best time to start is before your foreclosure 310 00:12:51,933 --> 00:12:53,700 is imminent, the best time to start 311 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:56,966 is when things are a little bit stable, 312 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:00,266 so that you're not really up against a wall 313 00:13:00,266 --> 00:13:02,533 because you can't, it's very high risk 314 00:13:02,533 --> 00:13:04,200 to do the whole farm at once. 315 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,433 If you start with 20% and do 20% a year 316 00:13:06,433 --> 00:13:09,666 over five years, there's very little risk of that. 317 00:13:09,666 --> 00:13:10,500 - Okay. 318 00:13:11,866 --> 00:13:15,033 - These are bringing up lots of very good topics, 319 00:13:15,033 --> 00:13:18,266 and I get to actually answer a question on organics. 320 00:13:18,266 --> 00:13:21,433 From Springdale, can small, organic home gardeners 321 00:13:21,433 --> 00:13:23,733 use certified organic seed potatoes. 322 00:13:23,733 --> 00:13:25,133 If not, why not? 323 00:13:25,133 --> 00:13:27,533 Well, they absolutely can. 324 00:13:27,533 --> 00:13:29,833 The problem with organic seed potatoes 325 00:13:29,833 --> 00:13:33,533 is that there are very, very few produced in Montana 326 00:13:33,533 --> 00:13:36,966 and really, nationwide there are very few organic 327 00:13:36,966 --> 00:13:39,300 seed potatoes raised, 328 00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:42,000 and what I'll just say at this point. 329 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,500 This is a chance for me to get on my soapbox 330 00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:47,333 is the most important thing about growing potatoes 331 00:13:47,333 --> 00:13:50,200 is your home garden is to grow Montana seed potatoes 332 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,433 because we have very important seed potato industry 333 00:13:53,433 --> 00:13:56,800 in our state with very stringent disease tolerances. 334 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,166 And we've actually done surveys 335 00:13:58,166 --> 00:14:00,600 where we've brought seed in from out of state 336 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,366 and found horrific levels of disease 337 00:14:03,366 --> 00:14:07,566 that could potentially threaten our seed potato producers. 338 00:14:07,566 --> 00:14:09,266 One of the interesting things, though, 339 00:14:09,266 --> 00:14:10,600 about the organic program 340 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,966 is that because there is such a low supply 341 00:14:12,966 --> 00:14:14,766 of organic seed potatoes, 342 00:14:14,766 --> 00:14:17,700 even an organic certified farm can plant 343 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:19,366 conventionally raised seed potatoes 344 00:14:19,366 --> 00:14:23,333 if they can show that no certified seed is available, 345 00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:24,833 and so one thing that we actually do 346 00:14:24,833 --> 00:14:27,133 on a routine basis, especially there are 347 00:14:27,133 --> 00:14:29,866 a lot of organic farms in the Missoula Hamilton area, 348 00:14:29,866 --> 00:14:32,433 we will write a letter to the farm 349 00:14:32,433 --> 00:14:34,466 that they can give to the state of Montana 350 00:14:34,466 --> 00:14:37,233 saying that through our program 351 00:14:37,233 --> 00:14:40,433 no certified seed was available 352 00:14:40,433 --> 00:14:42,700 of the specific variety that they were using, 353 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:45,166 so really the most important thing 354 00:14:45,166 --> 00:14:47,866 is to grow Montana certified seed potatoes 355 00:14:47,866 --> 00:14:52,100 and if you can find organic seed potatoes, absolutely. 356 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:53,300 They're good to grow, 357 00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:56,666 but definitely a limit in the supply. 358 00:14:56,666 --> 00:14:59,233 - I'd like to second that, now. 359 00:14:59,233 --> 00:15:01,300 Because I have some experience with trying 360 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:04,266 a dry land potato experiments that we're doing. 361 00:15:04,266 --> 00:15:06,366 We started with 42 different varieties 362 00:15:06,366 --> 00:15:07,866 and I couldn't find all those in Montana, 363 00:15:07,866 --> 00:15:09,966 so I ordered from Idaho, on conventional means, 364 00:15:09,966 --> 00:15:12,100 'cause I'm not part of the staff, right, 365 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:13,900 so I ordered from Idaho and from Colorado 366 00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:18,833 and Montana and Washington and Maine and Montana, 367 00:15:18,833 --> 00:15:21,500 and the Maine ones were almost as good as Montana, 368 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:23,033 but by the time I got the Colorado, 369 00:15:23,033 --> 00:15:25,133 there was a significant amount of disease in those, 370 00:15:25,133 --> 00:15:26,300 even though they're all supposed to be 371 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:28,066 certified disease free, 372 00:15:28,066 --> 00:15:30,466 so you are doing a very excellent job here in Montana 373 00:15:30,466 --> 00:15:31,766 and I support you 100%. 374 00:15:31,766 --> 00:15:34,233 - Okay, thanks Bob. - And I bought mine today, 375 00:15:34,233 --> 00:15:35,633 seed potatoes from Montana. 376 00:15:35,633 --> 00:15:37,266 - All right, all right. - Just so you know. 377 00:15:37,266 --> 00:15:38,666 I've got them ready to go later this next week. 378 00:15:38,666 --> 00:15:40,200 - So yeah. - Just wanna let you know. 379 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:41,566 - Okay, great, and that's one of the things 380 00:15:41,566 --> 00:15:43,200 that we've really been working on addressing 381 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,333 is getting seed potatoes that are produced in Montana 382 00:15:46,333 --> 00:15:48,200 out throughout the state. 383 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:49,366 A few years ago we started 384 00:15:49,366 --> 00:15:51,900 a garden seed distribution network 385 00:15:51,900 --> 00:15:54,400 through our certified seed program, 386 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,666 and this year we actually turned it over 387 00:15:55,666 --> 00:15:57,166 to one of our potato farmers, 388 00:15:57,166 --> 00:15:59,000 and so we're delivering Montana seed potatoes 389 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,266 in two great big circuits, a western Montana circuit 390 00:16:02,266 --> 00:16:04,466 and eastern Montana circuit that goes all the way up 391 00:16:04,466 --> 00:16:07,666 to Havre, Glasgow, back down to Glendive 392 00:16:07,666 --> 00:16:09,966 and back again so we're really working 393 00:16:09,966 --> 00:16:11,733 at getting those seed potatoes out there. 394 00:16:11,733 --> 00:16:13,433 - Good, all right. 395 00:16:13,433 --> 00:16:16,400 - Back to Toby, this is a comment. 396 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,633 So this is a kudos to Toby. 397 00:16:19,566 --> 00:16:21,800 This is from Monarch, last year they had apple trees 398 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,133 girdled by rabbits. 399 00:16:23,133 --> 00:16:25,700 Toby recommended to bridge graft 400 00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:29,733 and they did that, now the trees are leafing out, success. 401 00:16:29,733 --> 00:16:31,166 (laughing) Thanks, Toby. 402 00:16:31,166 --> 00:16:32,000 - That's actually quite amazing, 403 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,866 because a bridge graft is really not 404 00:16:33,866 --> 00:16:35,266 an easy thing to do. - Is really difficult. 405 00:16:35,266 --> 00:16:36,266 - Yeah. - It's very difficult 406 00:16:36,266 --> 00:16:37,600 so that's great. 407 00:16:38,666 --> 00:16:39,933 That does go to 408 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,133 if you have, whether or not it's rabbits, 409 00:16:45,133 --> 00:16:47,100 but most of the time it's a weed eater, 410 00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:48,766 it's a lawn mower. 411 00:16:48,766 --> 00:16:53,066 It's something that rakes off the bark of the tree. 412 00:16:53,066 --> 00:16:56,133 I see that a lot and you might want 413 00:16:56,133 --> 00:16:58,033 to do something to protect those trees 414 00:16:58,033 --> 00:16:59,533 because once you take off more 415 00:16:59,533 --> 00:17:01,200 than about about a half to two thirds 416 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,133 of that bark around that tree. 417 00:17:03,133 --> 00:17:05,166 Then you're gonna see that tree go south. 418 00:17:05,166 --> 00:17:06,700 The living tissue is on the outside, 419 00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:08,733 so do some way to protect your tree, 420 00:17:08,733 --> 00:17:10,900 whether it's rabbits or just a 13 year old 421 00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:12,866 that goes crazy with a lawnmower. 422 00:17:12,866 --> 00:17:14,200 - [Nina] Exactly, and the weed eater. 423 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,333 - Yes. - Did they get rid 424 00:17:15,333 --> 00:17:16,733 of the rabbits? 425 00:17:16,733 --> 00:17:17,566 I'm sorry. 426 00:17:18,433 --> 00:17:19,700 - Hasenpfeffer. 427 00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:23,166 - So question for Gary from Great Falls. 428 00:17:23,166 --> 00:17:25,700 Will China pay a premium for Montana organic 429 00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:27,300 and grass fed beef? 430 00:17:29,666 --> 00:17:30,933 - I don't know. 431 00:17:33,633 --> 00:17:35,233 If you try to think about the economics 432 00:17:35,233 --> 00:17:36,933 of food production in China 433 00:17:36,933 --> 00:17:38,100 then a lot of the things they do 434 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:39,900 just don't make any sense. 435 00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:42,266 On the other hand, if there's a market there 436 00:17:42,266 --> 00:17:44,200 and one of the great things about markets 437 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,500 is that if they have a demand for a product 438 00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:50,466 that can be met by entrepreneurs like Bob here 439 00:17:50,466 --> 00:17:52,066 or others of course 440 00:17:52,066 --> 00:17:54,033 then we'll be able to produce it 441 00:17:54,033 --> 00:17:56,700 but I'm not certain, with China, 442 00:17:58,033 --> 00:18:01,566 it's just so hard to forecast what they're going to do 443 00:18:01,566 --> 00:18:04,633 and if they're doing something in terms of a food area 444 00:18:04,633 --> 00:18:06,133 or whether they're doing something in terms 445 00:18:06,133 --> 00:18:07,966 of protecting their industry 446 00:18:07,966 --> 00:18:09,633 or whether they're trying to do something else 447 00:18:09,633 --> 00:18:13,666 with another trade issue is very, very difficult forecast 448 00:18:13,666 --> 00:18:17,166 but if the only things China wants 449 00:18:17,166 --> 00:18:21,400 is more identity preserved, identified beef 450 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,200 we can produce that. 451 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,666 You provide a premium and Bob will step 452 00:18:25,666 --> 00:18:27,466 right up to the plate, I guarantee that. 453 00:18:27,466 --> 00:18:28,833 Known Bob a long time. 454 00:18:28,833 --> 00:18:31,366 - I've been China for some food shows 455 00:18:31,366 --> 00:18:33,233 and I can tell you that the demand for organic 456 00:18:33,233 --> 00:18:34,900 in China is growing. 457 00:18:36,066 --> 00:18:37,400 The one thing, and Gary mentioned it, 458 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,833 that they told us that they weren't interested 459 00:18:39,833 --> 00:18:43,233 in a truckload of wheat or a container load of wheat. 460 00:18:43,233 --> 00:18:46,533 It has to be processed with US label on it, 461 00:18:46,533 --> 00:18:47,900 and then it will come to China 462 00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:50,566 and will sell in their stores. 463 00:18:50,566 --> 00:18:52,900 People that we talk to said that they did not trust 464 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:56,466 the organic certification that's going on, 465 00:18:56,466 --> 00:18:58,200 at least at that time in China, 466 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,633 in the level of competency of the manufacturer, 467 00:19:01,633 --> 00:19:04,133 so they want it manufactured in the United States 468 00:19:04,133 --> 00:19:05,833 or other areas or Europe 469 00:19:05,833 --> 00:19:09,633 where they can really depend on the organic seal being legit 470 00:19:09,633 --> 00:19:13,766 and the seals being closed on the packages. 471 00:19:13,766 --> 00:19:15,500 - Interesting. - So that was one thing 472 00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:17,300 that probably would be the same with the beef, too. 473 00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:18,433 - Yeah. - You might have to take 474 00:19:18,433 --> 00:19:20,600 it to a different level of processing, 475 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,500 but there's certainly demand. 476 00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:23,633 - Okay. - Bob, did I hear a rumor 477 00:19:23,633 --> 00:19:25,966 that you have beef back on the farm? 478 00:19:25,966 --> 00:19:27,400 - Yes, that's true, yeah. 479 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,233 - Wow. 480 00:19:28,233 --> 00:19:30,200 - Well, that was, I hated to lose them, 481 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,733 but when I started traveling to food shows 482 00:19:32,733 --> 00:19:34,033 in the wintertime, my wife said, 483 00:19:34,033 --> 00:19:35,466 "Well, I'm not gonna feed all these cows." 484 00:19:35,466 --> 00:19:36,566 (laughing) 485 00:19:36,566 --> 00:19:38,233 And I said, "Okay, that's fair." 486 00:19:38,233 --> 00:19:39,233 So the cows went down the road, 487 00:19:39,233 --> 00:19:41,833 but now we have a new hired man 488 00:19:41,833 --> 00:19:43,533 who's very interested in the beef 489 00:19:43,533 --> 00:19:45,400 and so we're gonna be doing grazing 490 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,766 of our cover crops and intensive grazing, 491 00:19:48,766 --> 00:19:50,333 so we're very excited about adding that 492 00:19:50,333 --> 00:19:53,700 to the organic niche because it really goes together. 493 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:56,000 - So, and this is extremely good timing, 494 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,333 because a question just came in from Kalispell 495 00:19:58,333 --> 00:20:01,200 asking if you have had success with cover crops 496 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,966 and intensive grazing on your farm. 497 00:20:02,966 --> 00:20:05,000 So how is that working out? 498 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,400 - Well, the intensive grazing is in it's first year. 499 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,566 (laughing) - Okay. 500 00:20:09,566 --> 00:20:12,100 - But the cows will be coming the first of June, 501 00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:13,766 so I can't comment on that, 502 00:20:13,766 --> 00:20:16,400 but Perry and I have worked very close together 503 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,566 over many years with different cover crops 504 00:20:18,566 --> 00:20:22,466 and green manures and soil building crops 505 00:20:22,466 --> 00:20:25,900 and we've come up now with a rotation 506 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:28,633 that we rotate those as well as our cash crops, 507 00:20:28,633 --> 00:20:32,633 and we found that that's being quite successful. 508 00:20:32,633 --> 00:20:35,233 I've learned one thing in organic agriculture 509 00:20:35,233 --> 00:20:39,366 that diversity is the mother of stability, 510 00:20:39,366 --> 00:20:41,633 so the diversity you have, the more stable 511 00:20:41,633 --> 00:20:44,800 is your operation and we found that true 512 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:45,933 not only with the cash crops 513 00:20:45,933 --> 00:20:48,033 but also with the cover crops. 514 00:20:48,033 --> 00:20:48,966 - Okay. - Nina, I should chime in 515 00:20:48,966 --> 00:20:51,066 'cause we do have a fair bit of research going on 516 00:20:51,066 --> 00:20:53,300 at MSU that does look at grazing cover crops. 517 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:57,433 One piece of it is an organic project near campus here 518 00:20:57,433 --> 00:20:59,700 where we're actually using sheep as a model. 519 00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:01,566 - Okay. - Or grazer to 520 00:21:01,566 --> 00:21:04,333 take down sweet clover and there's some 521 00:21:04,333 --> 00:21:07,233 real positive things happening in that. 522 00:21:07,233 --> 00:21:08,866 Then Darren Boss is doing some work 523 00:21:08,866 --> 00:21:11,800 up at Haver using beef to take down cover crops 524 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,100 and has got some pretty good economic stories 525 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:18,100 or a good economic story coming out of that, 526 00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:19,433 and we've got some other work 527 00:21:19,433 --> 00:21:21,366 that we're just finishing up, too, 528 00:21:21,366 --> 00:21:22,666 and I think one of the messages 529 00:21:22,666 --> 00:21:27,533 is we can't, there's really an economic incentive 530 00:21:27,533 --> 00:21:29,966 to get the grazing part involved 531 00:21:29,966 --> 00:21:31,633 because that brings in an opportunity 532 00:21:31,633 --> 00:21:33,166 to recover some of those costs 533 00:21:33,166 --> 00:21:36,700 associated with seeding the cover crop. 534 00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:39,633 But some of the early data that we're getting 535 00:21:39,633 --> 00:21:42,033 says you can't have your cake and eat it too. 536 00:21:42,033 --> 00:21:43,633 It looks like we're actually losing 537 00:21:43,633 --> 00:21:45,300 a little bit of the nitrogen release 538 00:21:45,300 --> 00:21:46,866 and some of the soil quality 539 00:21:46,866 --> 00:21:49,133 as we're removing some of that plant tissue 540 00:21:49,133 --> 00:21:52,800 with animals, so that kind of makes sense. 541 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,266 - Yeah, and it's always the long run game. 542 00:21:55,266 --> 00:21:57,233 - It is the long run, that's what's important, yeah. 543 00:21:57,233 --> 00:21:58,100 - Sure. 544 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,333 For Gary, we discussed the fluctuations in 545 00:22:02,333 --> 00:22:05,033 I know another thing that's been a little bit disappointing 546 00:22:05,033 --> 00:22:08,100 the last few years is the cattle market. 547 00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:10,166 Can you explain what that decline is 548 00:22:10,166 --> 00:22:12,100 and what the trends are? 549 00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:14,466 - Yeah, sure, Nina, I mean we've seen 550 00:22:14,466 --> 00:22:17,566 two or three years ago remarkable change 551 00:22:17,566 --> 00:22:21,233 in the cattle markets, record prices that were hit, 552 00:22:21,233 --> 00:22:23,266 and there's reasons why there's record prices, 553 00:22:23,266 --> 00:22:26,900 whether it's an organic or non-organic product, 554 00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:29,000 there just wasn't much supply of beef around. 555 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,266 There was a large demand. 556 00:22:30,266 --> 00:22:32,800 Pork and poultry production was stymied 557 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,600 by some disease problems that they had 558 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,700 within their production systems 559 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:39,066 and so calf prices went crazy 560 00:22:39,066 --> 00:22:41,266 and cattle prices and beef prices did, 561 00:22:41,266 --> 00:22:43,000 and people respond. 562 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,733 Markets respond when a high price is out there. 563 00:22:46,733 --> 00:22:49,233 People respond by producing more of that product, 564 00:22:49,233 --> 00:22:51,533 exactly what we want to happen from markets, 565 00:22:51,533 --> 00:22:55,233 and as a result we've seen two things happen. 566 00:22:55,233 --> 00:22:58,400 Pork and poultry have been able to very quickly, 567 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,900 because of the way they're integrated in their structure, 568 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:03,733 to fix and control their disease problems, 569 00:23:03,733 --> 00:23:06,700 so their production started coming up very quickly, 570 00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:09,800 and last year, somehow, we've added 571 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,733 a billion and a half pounds of beef 572 00:23:11,733 --> 00:23:14,266 to our beef system and it wasn't from numbers, 573 00:23:14,266 --> 00:23:17,700 it really was from feeding cattle heavier. 574 00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:21,066 And as a result, we had some prices that dropped down 575 00:23:21,066 --> 00:23:22,800 where we hadn't seen for four or five years. 576 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,833 Now, markets adjust and we're starting to see 577 00:23:26,833 --> 00:23:31,000 some rationality come back into the feeder cattle market 578 00:23:31,933 --> 00:23:33,600 and we've had a pretty good run up 579 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:34,966 the last two to three months 580 00:23:34,966 --> 00:23:38,900 and it looks like this fall should be $1.75 ish 581 00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:41,233 sort of price for steer calves 582 00:23:41,233 --> 00:23:43,033 and that's a very, very solid price, 583 00:23:43,033 --> 00:23:47,200 and it's not $2.90 but it's also far above right now 584 00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:51,400 what the long run average price would be for those calves. 585 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,333 If you look at 100 years of data 586 00:23:53,333 --> 00:23:56,366 and adjust it to today's dollars, 587 00:23:56,366 --> 00:23:58,266 if we're on the trend, 588 00:23:58,266 --> 00:24:01,566 we'd get about $1.50 one or two for those calves 589 00:24:01,566 --> 00:24:04,733 and we're gonna be substantially above that this fall, 590 00:24:04,733 --> 00:24:07,000 so it's still a very strong 591 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,933 even though we had a dip in there 592 00:24:09,933 --> 00:24:11,633 very bullish on the cattle industry. 593 00:24:11,633 --> 00:24:12,900 There's a whole number of reasons. 594 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:14,600 I've talked with people in the state 595 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,466 in the past about what some of those cost drivers 596 00:24:18,466 --> 00:24:20,066 are for the cattle industry, 597 00:24:20,066 --> 00:24:22,900 and you mentioned one, Bob, labor. 598 00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:25,833 The things that you were doing didn't allow you 599 00:24:25,833 --> 00:24:27,000 to keep those animals around, 600 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,266 and you're wonderful but you're not that unique, right? 601 00:24:30,266 --> 00:24:31,900 It takes-- - If you're gone, you're gone. 602 00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:33,800 - That's right. - They don't take care 603 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:34,900 of themselves. - They don't take care 604 00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:36,600 of themselves and so the labor issue 605 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,533 is one of the major ones why people 606 00:24:38,533 --> 00:24:41,600 have gotten away, eastern Montana, classic, 607 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,033 from cattle production and that's not just Montana. 608 00:24:45,033 --> 00:24:48,266 That's all over the country so I think the future 609 00:24:48,266 --> 00:24:52,400 is really good for those in the cattle business, 610 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,733 those that are set up for it on the labor side, 611 00:24:54,733 --> 00:24:58,133 on the grazing side and have those things in place. 612 00:24:58,133 --> 00:24:59,766 I think things look really well. 613 00:24:59,766 --> 00:25:01,400 I still do, even though we're coming out of, 614 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,066 as we come out of this low spot 615 00:25:03,066 --> 00:25:04,500 which was pretty low last year. 616 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:06,633 - That's great, good. 617 00:25:06,633 --> 00:25:08,900 Here's a question for Toby from Lewistown 618 00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:11,133 and I'm very glad to get this question 619 00:25:11,133 --> 00:25:13,066 because it piggy backs on to our discussion 620 00:25:13,066 --> 00:25:14,733 before we went on the air tonight 621 00:25:14,733 --> 00:25:17,500 and Gary was asking a question. 622 00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:19,866 Well, first of all the person is commenting 623 00:25:19,866 --> 00:25:21,400 that many trees in central Montana 624 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,833 were killed by diseases and need to be replaced, 625 00:25:23,833 --> 00:25:25,533 but what they're really asking is 626 00:25:25,533 --> 00:25:28,266 what species of shade trees do you recommend 627 00:25:28,266 --> 00:25:32,633 for central Montana, Lewistown area would be similar 628 00:25:32,633 --> 00:25:35,166 to Bozeman if you get out on the prairie, 629 00:25:35,166 --> 00:25:37,133 it's definitely a harsher environment. 630 00:25:37,133 --> 00:25:38,633 - Right. 631 00:25:38,633 --> 00:25:40,433 - And they can't have disease, 632 00:25:40,433 --> 00:25:41,533 they can't have roots, 633 00:25:41,533 --> 00:25:43,433 they can't raise sidewalks, 634 00:25:43,433 --> 00:25:46,233 they can't die, they handle the wind. 635 00:25:46,233 --> 00:25:47,100 - Right. - They can be a windbreak. 636 00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:49,233 The grow fast, okay, go ahead, now. 637 00:25:49,233 --> 00:25:50,366 - You want a miracle is what you want. 638 00:25:50,366 --> 00:25:52,500 - That's why you're here. 639 00:25:56,700 --> 00:25:59,066 - First of all, I kind of question 640 00:25:59,066 --> 00:26:02,266 that there was a lot of trees that died due to disease. 641 00:26:02,266 --> 00:26:04,600 I don't know exactly what that statement is 642 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,733 'cause there's a few diseases that are out there. 643 00:26:06,733 --> 00:26:08,366 We do have some warmer weather. 644 00:26:08,366 --> 00:26:09,700 We do have some insect problems, 645 00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:12,100 'cause we haven't really gotten that cold. 646 00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:14,866 But I do understand when we do lose trees 647 00:26:14,866 --> 00:26:17,700 due to winter kill and things like that. 648 00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:19,566 One of the things, 649 00:26:19,566 --> 00:26:21,066 walk around your neighborhood. 650 00:26:21,066 --> 00:26:22,500 See what's there. 651 00:26:23,866 --> 00:26:24,966 Talk to your neighbors. 652 00:26:24,966 --> 00:26:26,400 We don't do that anymore. 653 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,166 If you see a tree in somebody's backyard 654 00:26:28,166 --> 00:26:29,366 and you want to know what it is, 655 00:26:29,366 --> 00:26:31,166 go ask them, take a sample. 656 00:26:31,166 --> 00:26:32,800 Bring it to your extension office. 657 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,833 Now, Lewistown, Montana, there's a lot of great trees 658 00:26:34,833 --> 00:26:36,233 that you can grow there. 659 00:26:36,233 --> 00:26:38,433 It's not as harsh as, let's say where I was an agent 660 00:26:38,433 --> 00:26:40,200 in Butte, where it's difficult to grow 661 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,300 a lot of different trees, 662 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:46,466 but there's several different trees that will do well. 663 00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:49,466 One of them that always comes to mind 664 00:26:49,466 --> 00:26:52,133 is the thornless honeylocust. 665 00:26:52,133 --> 00:26:55,266 I see those in the Lewistown area. 666 00:26:55,266 --> 00:26:56,966 I think it's a great tree. 667 00:26:56,966 --> 00:26:59,400 I think if you're in the city of Lewistown 668 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,700 where it's a little bit more, 669 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:03,700 you have kind of a microclimate. 670 00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:05,033 You could probably actually get away 671 00:27:05,033 --> 00:27:08,533 with at least silver maple, maybe Norway maple. 672 00:27:08,533 --> 00:27:11,933 Once you start getting out of that urban forest 673 00:27:11,933 --> 00:27:15,266 then it gets to where you're like zone three for sure 674 00:27:15,266 --> 00:27:17,733 but there are a lot of trees out there. 675 00:27:17,733 --> 00:27:20,300 We could talk about all of them, 676 00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:21,566 but I would just walk around the neighborhood, 677 00:27:21,566 --> 00:27:24,466 see what's working, see what's, 678 00:27:24,466 --> 00:27:27,066 'cause there's always a plant nerd like myself 679 00:27:27,066 --> 00:27:30,433 or master gardeners that will try anything. 680 00:27:30,433 --> 00:27:32,366 There's people like Bob who, 681 00:27:32,366 --> 00:27:34,333 every time I hear that there's a new vegetable 682 00:27:34,333 --> 00:27:35,200 that he's growing. 683 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,866 There's always somebody in a community 684 00:27:36,866 --> 00:27:39,233 that's doing something different 685 00:27:39,233 --> 00:27:41,800 and they figure out what works and what doesn't, 686 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,933 and that's what I would recommend 687 00:27:42,933 --> 00:27:45,266 is talk to your local nurseries, 688 00:27:45,266 --> 00:27:47,333 talk to local people around and see what's out there, 689 00:27:47,333 --> 00:27:50,500 but yeah, raising sidewalks, 690 00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:53,700 getting in the sewer, all that kind of stuff. 691 00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:54,933 - Not that that happens at my house. 692 00:27:54,933 --> 00:27:56,066 - Yeah. - I'm just saying. 693 00:27:56,066 --> 00:27:57,066 - Yeah. - Hypothetically. 694 00:27:57,066 --> 00:27:58,133 - Well there are. 695 00:27:58,133 --> 00:28:01,333 Trees are a benefit but they can also be a liability 696 00:28:01,333 --> 00:28:02,833 and makings sure that you have the right tree 697 00:28:02,833 --> 00:28:05,033 in the right place, the plant in the right place 698 00:28:05,033 --> 00:28:06,966 is always a very important thing. 699 00:28:06,966 --> 00:28:08,666 - [Gary] And patience isn't virtue of mine 700 00:28:08,666 --> 00:28:09,966 so I want it to grow fast. 701 00:28:09,966 --> 00:28:11,600 - Right. - And that causes problems. 702 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,466 - Everybody, I want a tree that grows really fast. 703 00:28:14,466 --> 00:28:16,900 It's a great shade tree that won't do any of those things 704 00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:18,600 and that's a myth. 705 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,700 - So can you comment on some of the maples, 706 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,966 like what's the one, it's maple, 707 00:28:24,966 --> 00:28:27,700 but the name isn't maple? 708 00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:28,766 - [Together] Box elder? 709 00:28:28,766 --> 00:28:31,433 - So box elder is actually a great tree. 710 00:28:31,433 --> 00:28:34,166 It looks a lot like green ash. 711 00:28:34,166 --> 00:28:35,666 It does well in a lot of areas, 712 00:28:35,666 --> 00:28:36,900 but if you do get a box elder, 713 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:40,500 make sure that you get a male box elder. 714 00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:42,066 Because if you have a female, 715 00:28:42,066 --> 00:28:44,766 you will get box elder bugs in Montana, 716 00:28:44,766 --> 00:28:47,300 and they can be a real nuisance, 717 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:48,466 but yeah, box elders. 718 00:28:48,466 --> 00:28:51,433 One of the things that some of the maples 719 00:28:51,433 --> 00:28:53,133 that I see coming out. 720 00:28:53,133 --> 00:28:55,800 Some of these red maples, they don't do well 721 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,633 in alkaline soils in Montana 722 00:28:57,633 --> 00:28:59,900 and so the red that you're looking for 723 00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:03,366 is usually a pale, flesh colored brown 724 00:29:03,366 --> 00:29:04,700 and it just doesn't do well. 725 00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:06,166 (laughing) 726 00:29:06,166 --> 00:29:09,566 - [Bob] Can we tap our box elder trees for syrup? 727 00:29:09,566 --> 00:29:10,400 - Can you? 728 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,433 You surely can. 729 00:29:11,433 --> 00:29:13,066 - [Bob] Have you seen it done? 730 00:29:13,066 --> 00:29:14,266 - I have not seen it done, 731 00:29:14,266 --> 00:29:17,066 but I'm pretty sure that you probably could 732 00:29:17,066 --> 00:29:19,833 tap the trees if you wanted to, 733 00:29:19,833 --> 00:29:23,166 but I don't think you're gonna get a lot of production. 734 00:29:23,166 --> 00:29:26,266 But I'm gonna guess, I know that they do, 735 00:29:26,266 --> 00:29:28,966 birch was one that I saw that was tapped 736 00:29:28,966 --> 00:29:30,966 and I thought that was kind of interesting, 737 00:29:30,966 --> 00:29:34,400 and I've had birch syrup which I thought was fantastic, 738 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,633 but all my friends and even some of my family I believe 739 00:29:37,633 --> 00:29:39,400 didn't really like it. 740 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,666 - [Nina] Probably a little bitter or something. 741 00:29:40,666 --> 00:29:42,033 - It's got a weird taste to it. 742 00:29:42,033 --> 00:29:43,266 - Yeah. - I'll try anything. 743 00:29:43,266 --> 00:29:44,566 - I can imagine. - If you bring Bob 744 00:29:44,566 --> 00:29:46,100 back next year, he'll have tapped it. 745 00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:47,200 - He'll have tapped his-- 746 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,100 - I have a box elder tree sitting out. 747 00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:49,966 - He's gonna go home and-- 748 00:29:49,966 --> 00:29:52,566 - And they're one that actually 749 00:29:52,566 --> 00:29:55,066 will do reasonably well out on the prairie. 750 00:29:55,066 --> 00:29:56,900 - [Bob] Yes, it's a native. 751 00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:58,400 - Yeah. - Right. 752 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,666 - With a little protection. 753 00:30:01,900 --> 00:30:06,200 This is the burning question I think about organic gardening 754 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,500 for Bob from Kalispell. 755 00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:10,433 How do you control weeds without sprays? 756 00:30:10,433 --> 00:30:11,666 - How do you control weeds without sprays? 757 00:30:11,666 --> 00:30:14,566 Well, you have to start early and show up often. 758 00:30:14,566 --> 00:30:16,800 (laughing) 759 00:30:17,766 --> 00:30:22,233 With gardens, well, this is not my strong suit 760 00:30:22,233 --> 00:30:23,700 but I do love gardens 761 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:28,500 and my best control of weeds with gardens is a heavy mulch. 762 00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:32,600 So I put lawn clippings or even straw or leaves 763 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,266 or whatever's available to mulch the garden very heavily 764 00:30:35,266 --> 00:30:37,266 and then that takes care of the weeds 765 00:30:37,266 --> 00:30:40,033 once you get the first flush out. 766 00:30:40,033 --> 00:30:41,700 So that's one trick. 767 00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:48,300 In the fields, we control weeds with rotations, 768 00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:51,133 so we're breaking up weed cycles 769 00:30:51,133 --> 00:30:52,900 along with disease cycles and pest cycles 770 00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:55,400 and all the cycles are broken up with rotation. 771 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,133 Doesn't mean the weeds are gone, 772 00:30:57,133 --> 00:30:59,200 but it means they're manageable. 773 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,300 So we don't try for eradication. 774 00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:02,433 That's not our goal. 775 00:31:02,433 --> 00:31:06,600 Our goal is to have it not causing economic damage 776 00:31:07,433 --> 00:31:11,900 or lowering the value of the crop in harvestable bushels 777 00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:13,066 and that sort of thing, 778 00:31:13,066 --> 00:31:14,966 and what we're finding after several years 779 00:31:14,966 --> 00:31:17,033 that the weeds in our fields are very diverse 780 00:31:17,033 --> 00:31:20,566 and there's not just patches of one kind of weed, 781 00:31:20,566 --> 00:31:23,333 and once you've reached that level 782 00:31:23,333 --> 00:31:25,966 then you know that your rotations are 783 00:31:25,966 --> 00:31:29,300 - What one weed is just your nemesis? 784 00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:32,366 - Well, right now the problem we're having 785 00:31:32,366 --> 00:31:34,233 that we haven't solved yet. 786 00:31:34,233 --> 00:31:35,433 There's a lot of research going on, 787 00:31:35,433 --> 00:31:39,833 there needs to be more is with the perennial vine weed. 788 00:31:39,833 --> 00:31:42,133 A creeping jenny. - Yeah. 789 00:31:42,133 --> 00:31:44,700 - Our perennial weeds are pretty tough 790 00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:46,466 with Canada thistle, we're able to control 791 00:31:46,466 --> 00:31:48,966 that with alfalfa if we get a good stand of alfalfa, 792 00:31:48,966 --> 00:31:51,733 that takes out the Canada thistle. 793 00:31:51,733 --> 00:31:55,366 Our most problematic weeds for our chemical neighbors 794 00:31:55,366 --> 00:31:59,266 almost disappeared for us, like fireweed kosha 795 00:31:59,266 --> 00:32:00,833 is a non-issue. 796 00:32:00,833 --> 00:32:03,033 I think kosha really needs a lot of soluble nitrogren 797 00:32:03,033 --> 00:32:06,066 to be successful and go above the wheat. 798 00:32:06,066 --> 00:32:08,500 Without that, the wheat seems to cover it 799 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:10,733 and it doesn't take over like it does 800 00:32:10,733 --> 00:32:13,566 in our neighbors' fields, 801 00:32:13,566 --> 00:32:17,866 but simple weeds that are very easily killed by chemicals 802 00:32:17,866 --> 00:32:20,100 like penny crest, fan weed, 803 00:32:23,333 --> 00:32:27,000 some of the easier mustards can be a real problem 804 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,866 for us if they let them get out of control. 805 00:32:28,866 --> 00:32:32,100 One thing that we can never do is let weeds go to seed. 806 00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:33,900 So we make sure that weeds don't go to seed 807 00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:35,700 to build up seed bank. 808 00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:37,800 So we're doing more cultivation. 809 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,166 We try to do shallow undercutting type of cultivation 810 00:32:40,166 --> 00:32:42,666 so it's minimum till rather than plowing 811 00:32:42,666 --> 00:32:44,600 or anything like that but we do try 812 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,933 to keep the weeds from going to seed 813 00:32:45,933 --> 00:32:48,333 and then rotate so we are breaking up cycles 814 00:32:48,333 --> 00:32:50,166 of winter annuals and summer annuals 815 00:32:50,166 --> 00:32:53,800 and we don't allow those to build up 816 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,900 by having the same kind of crops year after year. 817 00:32:59,366 --> 00:33:02,100 - That raises a question to me that I never really thought 818 00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:04,566 of it before, so in organic, 819 00:33:04,566 --> 00:33:09,033 you really can't utilize the no-till type agriculture 820 00:33:09,033 --> 00:33:11,066 where you're planting back into the stubble? 821 00:33:11,066 --> 00:33:12,133 - We're working on that. 822 00:33:12,133 --> 00:33:14,100 If we can figure out a no-till organic, 823 00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:17,266 that'd be the cat's meow, really. 824 00:33:17,266 --> 00:33:19,033 Rodale has been working on such a thing 825 00:33:19,033 --> 00:33:20,833 in Pennsylvania and they seem 826 00:33:20,833 --> 00:33:22,533 like they've made some progress, 827 00:33:22,533 --> 00:33:24,166 but when we try to duplicate it here, 828 00:33:24,166 --> 00:33:25,433 it hasn't really worked, 829 00:33:25,433 --> 00:33:28,700 so we haven't solved that one yet 830 00:33:28,700 --> 00:33:31,800 but that's the elusive pie in the sky, 831 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,000 but that would be great if we could do that. 832 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,133 We're stilling relying on rotations 833 00:33:37,133 --> 00:33:39,100 and the minimum tillage. 834 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:39,933 - Okay. 835 00:33:39,933 --> 00:33:41,733 - Nina, I mentioned this organic project 836 00:33:41,733 --> 00:33:42,966 that we had near town. 837 00:33:42,966 --> 00:33:44,600 The point of that, actually, is to try 838 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,133 and do something that's closer to no till, 839 00:33:46,133 --> 00:33:49,466 and that's why we're using grazing in that study. 840 00:33:49,466 --> 00:33:52,133 In a five year rotation, we can actually go 36 months 841 00:33:52,133 --> 00:33:54,833 without tillage, so we haven't figured 842 00:33:54,833 --> 00:33:56,466 out a way to do the whole five years, 843 00:33:56,466 --> 00:34:00,066 but 36 months in a row is a pretty good start, 844 00:34:00,066 --> 00:34:01,333 and we've done some of these things 845 00:34:01,333 --> 00:34:02,900 like the crimp rolling and what not 846 00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:04,866 that the Rodale Institute's done, 847 00:34:04,866 --> 00:34:06,733 but in most situations here, 848 00:34:06,733 --> 00:34:08,433 by the time the plants are big enough 849 00:34:08,433 --> 00:34:11,100 to be susceptible to rolling, 850 00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:13,500 they've used all the water in the system 851 00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:16,500 and so they're too close to maturity 852 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:19,300 and we're not growing enough mulch 853 00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:20,633 to really make a difference, 854 00:34:20,633 --> 00:34:22,766 so we're still struggling with that end, 855 00:34:22,766 --> 00:34:27,333 but you know Pat Carr, a new research scientist 856 00:34:27,333 --> 00:34:28,700 near the Lewistown area of Moccasin 857 00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:30,166 is really interested in this topic 858 00:34:30,166 --> 00:34:31,800 and I know he's gonna get some work underway 859 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,800 and he's gonna get one of these fancy Chevron rollers 860 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,500 and try some more things out at that location. 861 00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:38,666 - Okay. - One of our crops 862 00:34:38,666 --> 00:34:41,933 in our rotation is alfalfa for soil building 863 00:34:41,933 --> 00:34:43,700 and we also use it as a cash crop, 864 00:34:43,700 --> 00:34:45,200 the second year for hay. 865 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:46,466 So when we do our alfalfa, 866 00:34:46,466 --> 00:34:50,633 we actually go about 18 to 20 months without any tillage. 867 00:34:51,833 --> 00:34:55,266 We also use yellow blossomed sweet clover, 868 00:34:55,266 --> 00:34:57,400 and when that's in our rotation, 869 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,600 we go a year, 12 months without any cultivation, 870 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,133 so we have aspects of the rotation 871 00:35:04,133 --> 00:35:06,600 that really allow for some no tillage 872 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,533 but it's not 100%. 873 00:35:10,300 --> 00:35:14,700 - Okay, okay, Gary a question from Missoula, 874 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:15,866 if you could just kind of comment, 875 00:35:15,866 --> 00:35:18,433 we've been talking a lot about this organic agriculture 876 00:35:18,433 --> 00:35:20,000 and different methods and the nuts and bolts 877 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,100 of how to get the work done. 878 00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:24,900 From an economic standpoint, 879 00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:28,200 how sustainable is organic production of food? 880 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,566 - Well, there's just so many issues. 881 00:35:31,566 --> 00:35:33,566 First of all, the scale is something 882 00:35:33,566 --> 00:35:34,566 people need to understand. 883 00:35:34,566 --> 00:35:37,900 Last year, we had about 360 billion dollars 884 00:35:37,900 --> 00:35:41,566 of farm gate sales, so that's not further process 885 00:35:41,566 --> 00:35:44,100 but off the farm, farm and ranches, 886 00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:47,700 and organic was about 6% of that, 887 00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:49,300 so about six billion, something like that, 888 00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:53,500 so from an overall perspective, it's relatively small. 889 00:35:54,466 --> 00:35:57,200 Now, from an economic standpoint, 890 00:35:58,466 --> 00:36:00,600 we happen to be very fortunate. 891 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,366 There's probably 50 or 60 countries in the world 892 00:36:04,366 --> 00:36:07,500 where if you want a certain type of agriculture, 893 00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:09,766 you want your food produced naturally. 894 00:36:09,766 --> 00:36:11,233 You want your food produced organically. 895 00:36:11,233 --> 00:36:14,800 You don't care, whatever the case might be. 896 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,500 The vast majority of countries in the world 897 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:18,433 just try to eat anything, 898 00:36:18,433 --> 00:36:20,633 and they don't have these choices. 899 00:36:20,633 --> 00:36:23,366 Markets allow us to have a demand 900 00:36:23,366 --> 00:36:27,166 if there's a demand, someone, the Bob's of the world here. 901 00:36:27,166 --> 00:36:30,000 Bob, we've known each other 20 years, I guess now, 902 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,566 those folks will try to figure out a way 903 00:36:31,566 --> 00:36:33,166 to meet that demand. 904 00:36:33,166 --> 00:36:36,200 Now, it does mean that you're probably pay more for food, 905 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,666 and that's okay. 906 00:36:37,666 --> 00:36:38,766 People have choice, 907 00:36:38,766 --> 00:36:40,366 and however you want to do it, 908 00:36:40,366 --> 00:36:43,166 organic production is gonna have lower yields 909 00:36:43,166 --> 00:36:45,033 and because of labor and other things, 910 00:36:45,033 --> 00:36:46,766 there's gonna be some higher costs. 911 00:36:46,766 --> 00:36:48,100 But that's fine. 912 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,466 It's meeting a demand that's out there, 913 00:36:51,466 --> 00:36:54,733 and so, right now, I'd call it about 6%. 914 00:36:54,733 --> 00:36:57,533 In Europe, Bob, more like 15%, 18%, 20%. 915 00:36:57,533 --> 00:36:59,033 - Not quite that high yet. 916 00:36:59,033 --> 00:36:59,900 - Not quite that high yet. 917 00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:00,833 In all of Europe. 918 00:37:00,833 --> 00:37:03,966 Certain parts it is. - Yeah, yes. 919 00:37:03,966 --> 00:37:05,933 - But isn't it wonderful that you have a choice? 920 00:37:05,933 --> 00:37:07,500 And if you wanna be at the farmer's market 921 00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:09,466 to get your tomatoes produced 922 00:37:09,466 --> 00:37:12,966 by Don Mathry over here, you can. 923 00:37:12,966 --> 00:37:16,166 It's fantastic that we have these opportunities 924 00:37:16,166 --> 00:37:18,966 and we need to continue to do research 925 00:37:18,966 --> 00:37:23,066 and we need to continue to make sure we have entrepreneurs 926 00:37:23,066 --> 00:37:24,966 that can meet that demand 927 00:37:24,966 --> 00:37:26,833 and some can do it very successfully 928 00:37:26,833 --> 00:37:28,466 and others not so much. 929 00:37:28,466 --> 00:37:31,066 The question about how we handle weeds. 930 00:37:31,066 --> 00:37:33,300 I grew up on a sugar beet, malt barley farm, 931 00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:36,700 or got older there, I don't know if I grew up, 932 00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:38,566 and we did it with a long handled hoe, 933 00:37:38,566 --> 00:37:39,666 and I don't like that much. 934 00:37:39,666 --> 00:37:43,100 That just isn't what I want to do with my life, 935 00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:45,700 but not everything has to be done that way, either, 936 00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:49,900 and so I'll call it 6% of our food business. 937 00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:52,133 That doesn't mean it's inconsequential. 938 00:37:52,133 --> 00:37:53,366 It's very important to a lot of people 939 00:37:53,366 --> 00:37:55,833 and I think it's fantastic that we have options. 940 00:37:55,833 --> 00:37:57,066 - I think it's also interesting 941 00:37:57,066 --> 00:37:59,300 how we have conventional farming, 942 00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:02,500 which is, there's always breakthroughs 943 00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,833 on conventional farming and it's sometimes political. 944 00:38:05,833 --> 00:38:07,800 Whether or not it's GMO 945 00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:11,133 every universities working on something. 946 00:38:11,133 --> 00:38:14,633 Some kind of breeding or some type of product. 947 00:38:14,633 --> 00:38:16,000 There's also independent companies, 948 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,866 but there's also people like Bob 949 00:38:17,866 --> 00:38:19,633 who's out there and I'm gonna guess 950 00:38:19,633 --> 00:38:22,200 that if I was to go on your farm 951 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:23,433 and I haven't been on your farm, 952 00:38:23,433 --> 00:38:24,933 but if I was. - You need to go. 953 00:38:24,933 --> 00:38:26,866 - I bet there would be an opportunity 954 00:38:26,866 --> 00:38:28,633 to say, "Hey, this is really working out, 955 00:38:28,633 --> 00:38:30,433 "and there's some new science." 956 00:38:30,433 --> 00:38:35,000 Because you're totally turning the whole industry 957 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,100 on its head on the how you do this. 958 00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:39,800 Like I said, throughout Montana, 959 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,400 I always hear about Bob Quinn, Bob Quinn, 960 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,600 and I think it's mostly because you have 961 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,666 that entrepreneurial kind of look to it 962 00:38:46,666 --> 00:38:49,666 about how to move past something 963 00:38:49,666 --> 00:38:51,933 whether or not it's organic or even conventional, 964 00:38:51,933 --> 00:38:54,533 and I think that that's really great 965 00:38:54,533 --> 00:38:56,333 that we have people out there, 966 00:38:56,333 --> 00:38:58,866 but I think we need both. 967 00:38:58,866 --> 00:39:01,966 Because of the food supply that we're looking at. 968 00:39:01,966 --> 00:39:04,566 - One thing that I think is important to say 969 00:39:04,566 --> 00:39:05,933 that the organic section is really 970 00:39:05,933 --> 00:39:07,966 the only area of agriculture I know 971 00:39:07,966 --> 00:39:09,733 that has significant growth, 972 00:39:09,733 --> 00:39:11,266 even though it's quite small, 973 00:39:11,266 --> 00:39:13,366 it's the only one that's really growing, 974 00:39:13,366 --> 00:39:16,200 and holds I think great promise in the future. 975 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,500 We hear all the time, I've heard the last 30 years 976 00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:20,300 about organic will never feed the world 977 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:22,100 and we hear that all the time, 978 00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:23,933 mostly from chemical companies. 979 00:39:23,933 --> 00:39:25,333 They don't want to lose their business, of course, 980 00:39:25,333 --> 00:39:30,066 but I was asked to speak at a conference in Bangkok 981 00:39:30,066 --> 00:39:33,400 a couple years ago and there was a paper presented there 982 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,066 from research done in India 983 00:39:35,066 --> 00:39:36,933 and was backed up with another paper 984 00:39:36,933 --> 00:39:39,100 of research done in Africa 985 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,733 and as you well know that Asia has 986 00:39:43,733 --> 00:39:45,966 just about two thirds of the population of the earth 987 00:39:45,966 --> 00:39:48,200 lives in Asia, if you add Africa, now we're 988 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:49,433 up to three quarters. 989 00:39:49,433 --> 00:39:52,100 Most of those people are fed by peasant farmers 990 00:39:52,100 --> 00:39:54,166 and very small plots of land, 991 00:39:54,166 --> 00:39:57,166 and the research shows if those farmers 992 00:39:57,166 --> 00:39:59,433 changed organic procedures, 993 00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:03,166 that their production would double to triple. 994 00:40:03,166 --> 00:40:04,600 Increase two to three times, 995 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,733 that is the key to feeding the world, 996 00:40:06,733 --> 00:40:08,766 and I found that very, very exciting. 997 00:40:08,766 --> 00:40:10,566 Those people can't afford chemicals, anyway, 998 00:40:10,566 --> 00:40:13,333 but if they would just go to things like soil building 999 00:40:13,333 --> 00:40:16,433 and rotations because absence of chemicals 1000 00:40:16,433 --> 00:40:18,833 doesn't mean it's organic, sustainable organic, 1001 00:40:18,833 --> 00:40:21,166 but if you add the principals of soil building 1002 00:40:21,166 --> 00:40:24,533 and rotations, you can actually see 1003 00:40:24,533 --> 00:40:27,700 those yields doubling and that's three quarters 1004 00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:29,966 of the world and that's where the food 1005 00:40:29,966 --> 00:40:31,566 would make a huge difference 1006 00:40:31,566 --> 00:40:35,600 to those areas that are always in deficit. 1007 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,366 - One of the things that Bob just commented on 1008 00:40:37,366 --> 00:40:39,500 was organic ag being the only growth industry 1009 00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:41,266 in the state, in terms of crops, 1010 00:40:41,266 --> 00:40:42,666 I think Perry could you comment a little bit 1011 00:40:42,666 --> 00:40:46,400 on pulse crops and the acreage increases 1012 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,733 and where we're sitting now in comparison 1013 00:40:48,733 --> 00:40:50,833 to where we were 10 years ago. 1014 00:40:50,833 --> 00:40:54,266 - Yeah, pulse crops have created a whole new industry 1015 00:40:54,266 --> 00:40:56,666 in Montana and at one time the only people 1016 00:40:56,666 --> 00:40:58,733 who knew about it were organic farmers 1017 00:40:58,733 --> 00:41:00,533 but it's gotten much, much bigger than that 1018 00:41:00,533 --> 00:41:02,000 as it's gone mainstream, 1019 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,100 and so last year, I think we were, 20 years ago 1020 00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:06,766 that the acreage would have been so small 1021 00:41:06,766 --> 00:41:09,600 it wouldn't even be worth saying how much it was. 1022 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,333 Now I think there's 1.2 million acres this past year, 1023 00:41:12,333 --> 00:41:15,000 pretty evenly split between peas and lentils 1024 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,033 and not as much with chickpeas. 1025 00:41:17,033 --> 00:41:18,366 The numbers I'm hearing this year 1026 00:41:18,366 --> 00:41:20,300 are probably gonna be in the same ballpark, 1027 00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:23,133 maybe a lot more chickpeas, fewer peas. 1028 00:41:23,133 --> 00:41:24,300 Lentil production looks like it's gonna 1029 00:41:24,300 --> 00:41:25,833 be pretty strong again and so 1030 00:41:25,833 --> 00:41:28,733 that's been a wonderful opportunity for Montana, 1031 00:41:28,733 --> 00:41:31,200 especially because it complements wheat production 1032 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:32,133 so well. - Right. 1033 00:41:32,133 --> 00:41:35,133 - Which, again, the organic guys have known for a long time, 1034 00:41:35,133 --> 00:41:37,700 but in this mainstream world it's really helped manage 1035 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:41,733 weeds better, nutrient cycles, water use efficiency. 1036 00:41:41,733 --> 00:41:44,233 It's just been a really win-win situation 1037 00:41:44,233 --> 00:41:47,200 bringing these crops to the mainstream now. 1038 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,533 - And another beauty of that, it really helps 1039 00:41:48,533 --> 00:41:49,700 with the transition to organic, 1040 00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:51,433 because you're halfway there 1041 00:41:51,433 --> 00:41:52,266 because of the rotation. 1042 00:41:52,266 --> 00:41:53,466 (laughing) Really. 1043 00:41:53,466 --> 00:41:55,233 That's the hardest thing for people 1044 00:41:55,233 --> 00:41:57,633 to introduce new crops into their farm, 1045 00:41:57,633 --> 00:41:59,266 but when they've done it already, 1046 00:41:59,266 --> 00:42:01,266 then it becomes much more simple. 1047 00:42:01,266 --> 00:42:04,166 - So now that we've discussed this dramatic increase 1048 00:42:04,166 --> 00:42:06,933 in pulse crops, Gary can you comment? 1049 00:42:06,933 --> 00:42:09,300 Are we going to produce ourself into a situation 1050 00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:12,966 where we're going to have an oversupply of lentils 1051 00:42:12,966 --> 00:42:15,766 or is the export market gonna take care of that or what? 1052 00:42:15,766 --> 00:42:18,500 - The export market takes care of most of it now. 1053 00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:20,400 We don't need that many lentils 1054 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,166 and other legumes here in the US, 1055 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,300 so most of it is an export market, 1056 00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:30,666 but what's happening is as things get produced, 1057 00:42:30,666 --> 00:42:32,766 where you can do it the best, 1058 00:42:32,766 --> 00:42:36,566 and where what economists call your options are low, 1059 00:42:36,566 --> 00:42:38,500 so in wheat country. 1060 00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:40,500 Wheat and barley and fallow 1061 00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:42,866 and if the option of fallow in some years is low 1062 00:42:42,866 --> 00:42:43,800 and some years it's high, 1063 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,966 because you need the extra water that's going 1064 00:42:45,966 --> 00:42:48,933 to be retained, but as you develop a, 1065 00:42:48,933 --> 00:42:51,233 we call it comparative advantage in doing this. 1066 00:42:51,233 --> 00:42:55,000 Whether the market, demand declines, goes up, 1067 00:42:56,166 --> 00:42:58,633 if you can out compete whoever else is producing 1068 00:42:58,633 --> 00:43:00,100 these crops, that's what really matters, 1069 00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:03,633 and so I think we have an area, northeastern Montana, 1070 00:43:03,633 --> 00:43:05,933 that they're able to compete with the world 1071 00:43:05,933 --> 00:43:09,133 on the production side and that's what matters. 1072 00:43:09,133 --> 00:43:10,600 Looking for the things you're really good at. 1073 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,666 We're really good at Montana feeder cattle 1074 00:43:12,666 --> 00:43:14,766 and we're really good at malting barley 1075 00:43:14,766 --> 00:43:17,366 and we're pretty darn good at sugar beets, right? 1076 00:43:17,366 --> 00:43:18,433 And we're good at wheat. 1077 00:43:18,433 --> 00:43:20,200 - And seed potatoes. - And so we're good at this. 1078 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:21,266 Really good. - Don't forget 1079 00:43:21,266 --> 00:43:22,233 the seed potatoes. - Don't forget 1080 00:43:22,233 --> 00:43:23,533 the seed potatoes. 1081 00:43:23,533 --> 00:43:24,600 Yeah. 1082 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:25,766 - Toby, you're supposed to elbow. 1083 00:43:25,766 --> 00:43:27,733 - You just about got ejected out of that chair. 1084 00:43:27,733 --> 00:43:29,500 - We worked on this before. 1085 00:43:29,500 --> 00:43:30,566 We really are good-- 1086 00:43:30,566 --> 00:43:31,533 - [Together] At seed potatoes. 1087 00:43:31,533 --> 00:43:32,833 - That's right. - And they go all 1088 00:43:32,833 --> 00:43:34,466 over the country. 1089 00:43:34,466 --> 00:43:36,900 When you're good at something, that's what matters. 1090 00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:39,233 And getting better. - And so Gary mentions 1091 00:43:39,233 --> 00:43:41,233 a comparative advantage and one of the key things 1092 00:43:41,233 --> 00:43:44,166 with pulse crops is their pretty disease susceptible 1093 00:43:44,166 --> 00:43:45,466 as a group. - Yeah. 1094 00:43:45,466 --> 00:43:47,266 - Well, we have this nice, dry climate. 1095 00:43:47,266 --> 00:43:49,633 - Right. - That sometimes limits yields 1096 00:43:49,633 --> 00:43:52,400 and whatnot, but at least it keeps disease at bay, 1097 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,233 so that's become really important in those pulse crops. 1098 00:43:54,233 --> 00:43:55,866 - And it's the same climate that gives us high 1099 00:43:55,866 --> 00:43:57,166 protein spring wheat, I mean. 1100 00:43:57,166 --> 00:44:00,233 If you can get a yield, you mentioned that earlier, right? 1101 00:44:00,233 --> 00:44:02,366 So there's advantages to being, 1102 00:44:02,366 --> 00:44:04,100 I hate to say this folks, dry. 1103 00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:07,300 But there are some things that it can help 1104 00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:09,000 as opposed to a very, very wet year. 1105 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,766 - And as far as selling your lentils, 1106 00:44:10,766 --> 00:44:12,433 I think we should go on a campaign 1107 00:44:12,433 --> 00:44:14,166 to get us to eat more lentils. 1108 00:44:14,166 --> 00:44:15,300 - Yes. - They're very high 1109 00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:17,866 in nutrition, and we're talking about the cost of food 1110 00:44:17,866 --> 00:44:20,266 and organic lentils, per serving, 1111 00:44:20,266 --> 00:44:23,033 is still a very small price on your plate 1112 00:44:23,033 --> 00:44:27,100 if you buy the package in the store without processing 1113 00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:29,133 and for me that is really the key 1114 00:44:29,133 --> 00:44:30,833 for people who are looking to cut costs 1115 00:44:30,833 --> 00:44:33,166 is just buy less processed food. 1116 00:44:33,166 --> 00:44:35,766 - [Nina] Right, buy whole foods. 1117 00:44:35,766 --> 00:44:37,300 - Toby, you have to go see his place. 1118 00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:38,666 I'm done. (laughing) 1119 00:44:38,666 --> 00:44:40,666 I guarantee you, you will eat lentils up there, 1120 00:44:40,666 --> 00:44:41,966 'cause he'll fix you lunch. - Yeah. 1121 00:44:41,966 --> 00:44:43,333 - He does every time. 1122 00:44:43,333 --> 00:44:45,100 - We eat what we grow and we grow what we eat. 1123 00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:46,400 - He does, he really does. 1124 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,600 You will have lunch there, trust me. 1125 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,933 - Knowing that I will take every opportunity 1126 00:44:50,933 --> 00:44:52,766 to take it back to potatoes, 1127 00:44:52,766 --> 00:44:55,500 we have a question from Missoula. 1128 00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:57,300 How close together do you plant potatoes 1129 00:44:57,300 --> 00:44:59,166 and how do you know when to harvest? 1130 00:44:59,166 --> 00:45:01,433 Well, that's a very variable answer. 1131 00:45:01,433 --> 00:45:03,933 I would say anywhere from six to 12 inches 1132 00:45:03,933 --> 00:45:06,133 and part of it is what is your objective. 1133 00:45:06,133 --> 00:45:09,433 Would you like to grow some nice creamers for the summer? 1134 00:45:09,433 --> 00:45:11,700 You can definitely plant them closer together. 1135 00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:14,366 If you want to raise some really nice, big baking potatoes 1136 00:45:14,366 --> 00:45:16,633 or some really big potatoes for boiling 1137 00:45:16,633 --> 00:45:18,933 and cooking later on, then go ahead 1138 00:45:18,933 --> 00:45:20,733 and plant them a little farther apart, 1139 00:45:20,733 --> 00:45:24,166 and I actually met a woman this last week 1140 00:45:25,433 --> 00:45:28,133 who was asking me about her potato harvest 1141 00:45:28,133 --> 00:45:30,833 and she said, "I got all of these small potatoes, 1142 00:45:30,833 --> 00:45:33,166 "and I just need to learn how to grow bigger potatoes." 1143 00:45:33,166 --> 00:45:35,900 We started talking about how she planted her potatoes 1144 00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:37,833 and she said, "Well, I put four seeds in each hole." 1145 00:45:37,833 --> 00:45:39,100 - Oh. - Oh, boy. 1146 00:45:40,066 --> 00:45:42,700 - That'll do it. - Yeah. 1147 00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:44,800 - I've also found that anybody that grows, 1148 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,366 and I know somebody's gonna call me, that's fine. 1149 00:45:47,366 --> 00:45:49,400 But anybody that grows them in boxes 1150 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,933 or tires or everything that you see on Pinterest 1151 00:45:53,933 --> 00:45:56,500 and the internet, everybody I've ever talked to 1152 00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:58,866 says that the potatoes are really small. 1153 00:45:58,866 --> 00:46:00,333 You might get one big potato 1154 00:46:00,333 --> 00:46:01,933 and then the rest of them are really small, 1155 00:46:01,933 --> 00:46:04,933 so if you want larger baking potatoes, 1156 00:46:04,933 --> 00:46:09,100 don't grow 'em in these bins and barrels and tires. 1157 00:46:09,933 --> 00:46:10,966 They're gonna be too small. 1158 00:46:10,966 --> 00:46:12,966 - And if you're gonna go out in the dry land, 1159 00:46:12,966 --> 00:46:15,233 and put your potatoes in the field without irrigation, 1160 00:46:15,233 --> 00:46:18,066 our experiments have shown that we need nine 1161 00:46:18,066 --> 00:46:21,500 square feet per plant so that's three feet 1162 00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:24,233 between each row and three feet between each plant 1163 00:46:24,233 --> 00:46:26,833 and if we do that, our potato plants produce 1164 00:46:26,833 --> 00:46:30,533 nearly as much as irrigated ones, plant per plant. 1165 00:46:30,533 --> 00:46:33,733 We only have a third as many and that's okay, 1166 00:46:33,733 --> 00:46:38,066 but the size and the production is just fine. 1167 00:46:38,066 --> 00:46:40,433 The plants do not cover the ground 1168 00:46:40,433 --> 00:46:42,766 like you do with irrigated field. 1169 00:46:42,766 --> 00:46:44,266 - [Nina] So that creates a bit of a more weeding. 1170 00:46:44,266 --> 00:46:45,966 - You have to do some more weeding, yeah, 1171 00:46:45,966 --> 00:46:48,533 but in the dry areas, if you can get those weeds 1172 00:46:48,533 --> 00:46:52,033 out in June, usually it quits raining at the end of June 1173 00:46:52,033 --> 00:46:54,966 and new weeds don't come if there's no rain. 1174 00:46:54,966 --> 00:46:56,333 So it's okay. 1175 00:46:56,333 --> 00:46:58,000 - And the other thing about potatoes, 1176 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,233 if you don't have a lot of garden space. 1177 00:47:01,233 --> 00:47:03,300 Do like me, don't plant potatoes. 1178 00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:05,466 Buy 'em in the grocery store, 'cause they're cheap. 1179 00:47:05,466 --> 00:47:06,766 - Exactly, exactly. 1180 00:47:06,766 --> 00:47:09,933 We have some great local options in our grocery stores here. 1181 00:47:09,933 --> 00:47:12,466 - The also issue, sometimes you get small potatoes 1182 00:47:12,466 --> 00:47:14,266 'cause you've been planting in the same spot 1183 00:47:14,266 --> 00:47:15,400 over and over. - Right. 1184 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,466 - And Don Mathry told me, Gary, you've got to get them 1185 00:47:17,466 --> 00:47:19,033 over there somewhere else, so there's that. 1186 00:47:19,033 --> 00:47:20,266 Do you like 'em potted on hills? 1187 00:47:20,266 --> 00:47:22,033 That's what the seed potato guys do, 1188 00:47:22,033 --> 00:47:24,633 so do you like 'em on hills to get more size? 1189 00:47:24,633 --> 00:47:27,166 - I plant mine four to six inches deep 1190 00:47:27,166 --> 00:47:30,600 and then when they're about eight inches tall, 1191 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:31,666 then I start hilling 'em, 1192 00:47:31,666 --> 00:47:33,033 and I'll hill 'em a couple times 1193 00:47:33,033 --> 00:47:37,133 and as I'm hilling, I'll sprinkle a little fertilizer in 1194 00:47:37,133 --> 00:47:40,633 as I'm hilling, but yeah, the hilling is important 1195 00:47:40,633 --> 00:47:41,966 because as the potatoes grow, 1196 00:47:41,966 --> 00:47:43,333 if they grow too close to the surface 1197 00:47:43,333 --> 00:47:46,700 they'll turn green because the potatoes 1198 00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:48,266 themselves will actually photosynthesize 1199 00:47:48,266 --> 00:47:50,700 and you'll get bitter potatoes. 1200 00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:52,166 - And then they can push out a little bit more. 1201 00:47:52,166 --> 00:47:53,500 - Right, right. - Little looser soil. 1202 00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:57,566 - A little bit looser soil and then, definitely, 1203 00:47:57,566 --> 00:47:59,600 you can add compost at that stage, 1204 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,166 although, just with a bit of caution, 1205 00:48:01,166 --> 00:48:05,566 any addition of organic material can promote scab 1206 00:48:05,566 --> 00:48:09,500 and scab can definitely be a big problem with potatoes. 1207 00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:11,000 - But it never really goes away 1208 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,266 once it's in the soil, right? 1209 00:48:12,266 --> 00:48:15,900 - Well, the most important control measure for scab 1210 00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:19,733 really is to keep your soil evenly moist. 1211 00:48:19,733 --> 00:48:23,466 Is to never let it completely dry out 100%. 1212 00:48:23,466 --> 00:48:24,833 If you can keep it evenly moist, 1213 00:48:24,833 --> 00:48:26,866 you'll reduce your scab significantly, 1214 00:48:26,866 --> 00:48:30,533 but some varieties are just very prone to scab issues. 1215 00:48:30,533 --> 00:48:31,966 - Simple question, Nina. 1216 00:48:31,966 --> 00:48:33,100 Too early to plant potatoes? 1217 00:48:33,100 --> 00:48:34,700 - Oh, now's a good time to plant potatoes. 1218 00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:35,566 - Right now's a good time? 1219 00:48:35,566 --> 00:48:38,166 - Yep, now's a great time to plant potatoes even in Bozeman, 1220 00:48:38,166 --> 00:48:41,200 so yeah, the Manhattan guys are-- 1221 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,466 - It's the middle of May. - Yeah, yeah. 1222 00:48:43,466 --> 00:48:46,066 They're ready to go, so. 1223 00:48:46,066 --> 00:48:47,700 A question for Toby from Helena, 1224 00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:49,900 and evidently this question has been asked 1225 00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:51,700 and not answered yet. 1226 00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:53,866 Can you grow hydrangeas in Helena 1227 00:48:53,866 --> 00:48:58,233 and how long during the growing season do they bloom? 1228 00:48:58,233 --> 00:49:01,233 - So, yes, you can grow hydrangeas in Helena. 1229 00:49:01,233 --> 00:49:02,966 Unfortunately, they're not the ones 1230 00:49:02,966 --> 00:49:07,133 that you see, again on Pinterest, and all the internet. 1231 00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:11,466 It's very hard to get those pink and blue colors 1232 00:49:11,466 --> 00:49:14,500 without acidic soil and you don't have it in Helena. 1233 00:49:14,500 --> 00:49:18,100 There is a white one called Annabelle that is grown 1234 00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,666 just about everywhere and it'll flower 1235 00:49:20,666 --> 00:49:23,266 probably for several weeks. 1236 00:49:23,266 --> 00:49:26,633 Probably three weeks in the spring, 1237 00:49:26,633 --> 00:49:28,500 but it is, it's white, 1238 00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:31,866 and that might turn somebody off. 1239 00:49:31,866 --> 00:49:33,933 - We have it and it's great. 1240 00:49:33,933 --> 00:49:35,533 We gave up on colors. - Right. 1241 00:49:35,533 --> 00:49:37,400 - Because colors, we have alkaline soil 1242 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,200 and so you're not gonna get the colors. 1243 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,066 - So you can have the white one, 1244 00:49:41,066 --> 00:49:44,166 take an organic spray paint and paint 'em blue 1245 00:49:44,166 --> 00:49:45,700 and then you'll be happy. 1246 00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:46,966 - Just take a picture. 1247 00:49:46,966 --> 00:49:48,366 (laughing) - That's right. 1248 00:49:48,366 --> 00:49:49,866 - [Perry] What's a hydrangea? 1249 00:49:49,866 --> 00:49:52,633 - A hydrangea is a plant that's really grown in 1250 00:49:52,633 --> 00:49:55,200 areas that have more acidic soil. 1251 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:56,400 - A flower. - Usually kind of... 1252 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,400 Yeah, sorry, shaded areas. 1253 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,166 - If I can't eat it, I'm not interested. 1254 00:50:00,166 --> 00:50:02,600 - If you go to Seattle, you'll see tons of 'em. 1255 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,166 - You ask your wife. - Okay. 1256 00:50:04,166 --> 00:50:06,133 (laughing) 1257 00:50:06,133 --> 00:50:08,000 It's an informative show. 1258 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,233 - A question for Bob from Eureka. 1259 00:50:10,233 --> 00:50:12,133 Do large scale organic producers in Montana 1260 00:50:12,133 --> 00:50:14,466 use organic approved pesticides, 1261 00:50:14,466 --> 00:50:16,900 so like biorational products? 1262 00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:22,033 - Well, they're forbidden from using chemically 1263 00:50:22,033 --> 00:50:24,633 compounded pesticides. - Right. 1264 00:50:24,633 --> 00:50:26,866 - Somebody mentioned, it's already been mentioned before, 1265 00:50:26,866 --> 00:50:29,566 maybe Perry did, because of our climate here, 1266 00:50:29,566 --> 00:50:31,633 we have very few pests. 1267 00:50:31,633 --> 00:50:33,833 They used to not go through the winter. 1268 00:50:33,833 --> 00:50:36,800 That has changed the last couple years, 1269 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,700 but still, for us, the biggest pest we have, 1270 00:50:40,700 --> 00:50:43,333 the most serious one were grasshopper infestation, 1271 00:50:43,333 --> 00:50:46,600 and we haven't had a grasshopper infestation now since '88, 1272 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,433 that destroyed all the crops. 1273 00:50:48,433 --> 00:50:50,933 Normally they're coming every drought cycle 1274 00:50:50,933 --> 00:50:52,633 but they've missed the last one or two, 1275 00:50:52,633 --> 00:50:53,633 I don't know why. 1276 00:50:53,633 --> 00:50:57,833 But for that infestation, we used a nosema locusta 1277 00:50:59,166 --> 00:51:01,933 which is a biological control. 1278 00:51:01,933 --> 00:51:04,100 It's a very small parasite 1279 00:51:07,433 --> 00:51:09,533 that, when the grasshoppers eat it, 1280 00:51:09,533 --> 00:51:11,066 they get sick and then the other grasshoppers 1281 00:51:11,066 --> 00:51:12,433 eat their buddies who are sick 1282 00:51:12,433 --> 00:51:15,000 and they pass it through the whole group, 1283 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,466 and it's very, very efficient 1284 00:51:17,466 --> 00:51:19,800 when the grasshoppers are very, very thick, 1285 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,466 so that was a very good control, 1286 00:51:24,633 --> 00:51:27,366 and that was when I was in transition 1287 00:51:27,366 --> 00:51:30,633 with our organic and we'd sprayed the non-organic 1288 00:51:30,633 --> 00:51:34,100 fields with malathion, killed everything. 1289 00:51:34,100 --> 00:51:35,433 All the grasshoppers and everything else, 1290 00:51:35,433 --> 00:51:36,966 all the good bugs also died, 1291 00:51:36,966 --> 00:51:39,800 but within 10 days, the grasshoppers were back. 1292 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,500 - Right, 'cause with all that rain to land around, 1293 00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:42,700 they just migrate in. 1294 00:51:42,700 --> 00:51:43,800 - They just kept on coming. - Moving way. 1295 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,600 - And so they came in and finished off 1296 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,666 what the ones who had been poisoned didn't eat, 1297 00:51:49,666 --> 00:51:53,000 so harvest time, that field had very little to harvest 1298 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,966 and the hopper was full of grasshoppers, 1299 00:51:54,966 --> 00:51:58,466 and my organic field, the grasshoppers 1300 00:51:58,466 --> 00:52:00,200 and then the middle of the field, 1301 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,266 or the rest of the field, I should say, was clean. 1302 00:52:02,266 --> 00:52:04,066 There's no grasshoppers in the combine tank 1303 00:52:04,066 --> 00:52:06,466 and the crop was completely spared, 1304 00:52:06,466 --> 00:52:08,733 so it made a believer out of me. 1305 00:52:08,733 --> 00:52:11,066 - I should say for those that are looking for, 1306 00:52:11,066 --> 00:52:12,966 'cause there are organic pesticides 1307 00:52:12,966 --> 00:52:16,333 and there are biologicals like Bob was talking about, 1308 00:52:16,333 --> 00:52:20,733 if you do not want to use a conventional pesticide, 1309 00:52:20,733 --> 00:52:23,533 there are pesticides that are organic. 1310 00:52:23,533 --> 00:52:25,666 They are OMRI approved. - Yeah. 1311 00:52:25,666 --> 00:52:27,733 - If you look at the label, it's OMRI, 1312 00:52:27,733 --> 00:52:30,633 which is the Organic Materials Research Institute. 1313 00:52:30,633 --> 00:52:32,366 - Institute, yeah. - Yeah. 1314 00:52:32,366 --> 00:52:37,066 And that way you will know that you can use that. 1315 00:52:37,066 --> 00:52:38,566 - Yeah, it's really important. 1316 00:52:38,566 --> 00:52:40,166 - So even if you have a garden, 1317 00:52:40,166 --> 00:52:43,166 look for the OMRI approved if you wanna be organic. 1318 00:52:43,166 --> 00:52:45,500 - Okay, very good. 1319 00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:50,000 So, Gary, a question getting back to both organic 1320 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,666 and beef, how are they going about developing 1321 00:52:53,666 --> 00:52:55,766 markets for organic beef? 1322 00:52:57,033 --> 00:53:01,200 - Well, I think the biggest part is less development 1323 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,266 and finding where that demand is and trying to meet it, 1324 00:53:04,266 --> 00:53:07,133 and there's certainly great producers who are able 1325 00:53:07,133 --> 00:53:08,033 to do that. 1326 00:53:08,866 --> 00:53:11,666 Again, they become very, for their operation, 1327 00:53:11,666 --> 00:53:13,400 very efficient at doing it. 1328 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,933 I think the markets are out there. 1329 00:53:15,933 --> 00:53:17,266 I think the bigger problem on the beef side 1330 00:53:17,266 --> 00:53:18,966 is probably having supply. 1331 00:53:18,966 --> 00:53:20,233 - Consistent. - Being able to produce 1332 00:53:20,233 --> 00:53:22,266 the product, yeah, consistent supply. 1333 00:53:22,266 --> 00:53:24,100 Because now you're talking about all the feed ingredients 1334 00:53:24,100 --> 00:53:27,233 as well as opposed to your cropping side of things. 1335 00:53:27,233 --> 00:53:28,733 Now you're talking about all the feed ingredients 1336 00:53:28,733 --> 00:53:29,866 that have to go into that animal 1337 00:53:29,866 --> 00:53:32,000 and of course, now, with the animal gets sick, 1338 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,100 antibiotics, so there is, 1339 00:53:34,933 --> 00:53:36,966 the market is probably there. 1340 00:53:36,966 --> 00:53:41,400 It's just a really hard one to produce enough product for. 1341 00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,566 - I think a future market for beef is the grass fed organic. 1342 00:53:45,566 --> 00:53:48,500 That's even a niche of a niche, 1343 00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:49,733 but there's a huge demand for that, 1344 00:53:49,733 --> 00:53:51,033 and it's a growing demand. 1345 00:53:51,033 --> 00:53:52,666 - Okay. - Significantly. 1346 00:53:52,666 --> 00:53:55,800 - So we're coming to the end here really fast 1347 00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,833 and Bob, just a little bit more than a minute, 1348 00:53:58,833 --> 00:54:00,833 one of the things that we really haven't discussed 1349 00:54:00,833 --> 00:54:03,233 is what does it take, working through the state 1350 00:54:03,233 --> 00:54:05,133 to become an organic farmer? 1351 00:54:05,133 --> 00:54:07,833 If you could just talk a little bit about that process. 1352 00:54:07,833 --> 00:54:10,300 - Well, the Montana Department of Agriculture 1353 00:54:10,300 --> 00:54:13,866 has an organic section that certifies farms 1354 00:54:13,866 --> 00:54:16,033 in Montana and they're a very good resource. 1355 00:54:16,033 --> 00:54:18,433 I would call them as soon as you decided 1356 00:54:18,433 --> 00:54:20,066 that that's the way you want to go 1357 00:54:20,066 --> 00:54:22,000 and they will help you, step by step, 1358 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,800 with the certification process 1359 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,300 and even suggest maybe some rotations 1360 00:54:26,300 --> 00:54:28,733 and some crops to get you started. 1361 00:54:28,733 --> 00:54:31,400 I would find organic neighbors 1362 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:32,933 or the closest ones in your area. 1363 00:54:32,933 --> 00:54:34,700 They're gonna be your best resource 1364 00:54:34,700 --> 00:54:37,633 because they know what works in your region. 1365 00:54:37,633 --> 00:54:41,500 Even Montana is more or less one region, 1366 00:54:41,500 --> 00:54:44,033 but there's still many, many micro climates, 1367 00:54:44,033 --> 00:54:46,133 and if you ask your neighbors 1368 00:54:46,133 --> 00:54:47,233 and see what's work for them, 1369 00:54:47,233 --> 00:54:49,666 you'll be far down the road without having 1370 00:54:49,666 --> 00:54:52,766 to trial and error so many things yourself. 1371 00:54:52,766 --> 00:54:55,000 If I had two suggestions, those were the two 1372 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:55,900 I'd start with. - Okay. 1373 00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:56,833 - And start small. 1374 00:54:56,833 --> 00:55:00,300 - Right, and then how many years is the process? 1375 00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:03,233 - Well, it's three years from your last application 1376 00:55:03,233 --> 00:55:05,600 of a prohibited substance. 1377 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,700 So Montana, normally we're not spraying 1378 00:55:07,700 --> 00:55:10,033 after the harvest, so the third crop 1379 00:55:10,033 --> 00:55:11,600 actually can be sold for organic. 1380 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,066 So you're only missing two crops. 1381 00:55:13,066 --> 00:55:15,033 Once normally is summer fall. 1382 00:55:15,033 --> 00:55:17,000 One crop is all you're looking at really 1383 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:18,433 that's in transition. 1384 00:55:18,433 --> 00:55:20,766 One for summer, fall and then the third one 1385 00:55:20,766 --> 00:55:21,600 can be sold as organic. 1386 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,233 Not so bad, not so tough. 1387 00:55:23,233 --> 00:55:25,233 - Okay, great, well, thank you 1388 00:55:25,233 --> 00:55:29,133 and I think Bob's case study on organic farming 1389 00:55:30,266 --> 00:55:33,166 here stimulating some great conversation 1390 00:55:33,166 --> 00:55:35,966 and we'll look forward to some similar conversation 1391 00:55:35,966 --> 00:55:39,000 next week with Jeff Littlefield, who does work 1392 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,066 in biological weed control. 1393 00:55:41,066 --> 00:55:43,000 So we'll be back in some of the same topics 1394 00:55:43,133 --> 00:55:45,633 and we'll see you next week. 1395 00:55:47,600 --> 00:56:12,900 ♪ ( country music) 1396 00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:18,466 (Narrator) "Montana Ag Live is made possible by.. 1397 00:56:18,466 --> 00:56:21,766 the Montana Department of Agriculture 1398 00:56:21,766 --> 00:56:24,500 the MSU Extension Service 1399 00:56:24,500 --> 00:56:29,000 the MSU Ag Experiment Stations of the College of Agriculture 1400 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,633 the Montana Wheat & Barley Committee 1401 00:56:31,633 --> 00:56:34,566 the Montana Bankers Association 1402 00:56:34,566 --> 00:56:37,366 Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, 1403 00:56:37,366 --> 00:56:39,366 and the Gallatin Gardeners Club" 1404 00:56:39,366 --> 00:56:41,366 ♪ ( bluesy guitar music)