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- [Narrator] Montana AG 
Live is made possible

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by the MontanaDepartment 
of Agriculture,

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the MSU Extension Service,

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the MSU AG Experiment Stations

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of the College of Agriculture,

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The Montana Wheat 
 and Barley Committee,

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The Montana Bankers Association,

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Cashman Nursery and Landscaping,

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The Gallatin Gardeners Club

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and The Rocky Mountain 
Certified Crop Advisor Program.

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(country music)

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- Good evening folks.

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Welcome to another new 
  edition of Montana AG Live

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originating tonight from 
the studios at KUSM,

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on the campus of 
Montana State University

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and also from our 
  homes and offices

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at various locations around 
the beautiful state of Montana.

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I'm Jack Riesselman.

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I'll be your host and 
 moderator tonight.

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I'm a retired professor 
of plant pathology.

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Happy to be here, happy 
to have you watching.

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Above all else,

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what we need is some 
 of your questions.

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This program's success 
  is based on the questions

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that you asked because other 
 people also are interested

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in those questions.

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Answering the phones tonight

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to take these questions are 
 Bruce Lobel and Nancy Blake.

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They will send those questions 
 to me via slack technology

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on this little 
computer in front of me

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and I'll be able to relay 
  them to the various people

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that we have on the 
 panel this evening.

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Before we start, let 
me introduce the panel.

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Here in the studio with me 
  tonight is Mary Burrows.

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Everybody knows Mary.

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She's both an extension 
plant pathologist

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and associate director of 
  the AG Experiment Station.

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That's a relatively 
 new position for her.

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So welcome.

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Our guest tonight

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and we're really happy to 
  have her, Jamie Lockman.

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Jamie is over in Missoula.

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She is the head or 
  executive director

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of the Montana 
 Organic Association.

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I think it's called MOA.

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- (mumbles) I think.

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- Okay, well if 
  you have questions

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about organic agriculture, 
  send them in tonight

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because we have the expert 
  here and we also have

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some other people 
 with the university

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who can help answer 
 these questions.

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Also joining us tonight on 
 the panel are Jane Mangold,

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wave at the crowd, 
  and Clain Jones.

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We've always had a 
 soil scientist on 
 couple times a year.

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Clain has a lot of good 
information for us.

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Before we go any farther,

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Jamie, tell us a little bit

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about the Montana 
 Organic Association.

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- Sure, well we got 
 our start in 2003

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which was just after the 
organic program came into being.

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You know Montana has some 
 real pioneers in organic ag.

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We are the number one 
 organic wheat producing state

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in the country and we're number 
two or three for lentils.

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We're a trade association.

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We earned that status in 2006 
 and our mission is to advocate

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and promote organic agriculture

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for the highest 
 good of the people,

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the environment and 
 the state's economy.

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Among the things that we do 
 are to have education events.

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We have an annual conference, 
 this year we won't do that,

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but we will have 
 some virtual events,

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but our conference has 
been very well received.

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We do a farm tour usually, 
  at least one a year.

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This year we did it virtually.

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We have those videos available 
 on MOA's YouTube channel

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and Montana Public Television 
 was actually helpful

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in getting those videos done.

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We're really good at networking.

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There have been some 
really amazing products

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that have come out 
  of our conference

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and members getting 
 to know each other

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and communicating 
  with one another.

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We do some policy work.

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This year you know, we 
 haven't had the fly ends to DC

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like we would in the 
 past, but typically

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at least a couple times a 
  year somebody goes to DC

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and advocates for organic ag

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and then we also work 
 with some researchers

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at Montana State University 
and try to give them a platform

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for sharing their 
  latest research

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and we have a newsletter

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and lately we've been hosting 
 discussions virtually via Zoom

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on meat processing in Montana.

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- Okay, quick question.

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You say agriculture.

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That also includes truck 
  farming, small gardeners,

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people like that that 
 are organically based?

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- We have a diverse membership.

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We do have direct 
  market farmers.

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We have some orchardists, 
  we have cattle ranchers,

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we have some folks 
  who raise poultry.

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There's a couple organic 
vineyards in the state

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and then certainly 
  grain and pulses.

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I think one of the 
important things to know

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about organic agriculture,

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especially when you're talking

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about the eastern 
  side of the state

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and my companions here 
  can speak to this better,

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but you're talking about 
farming in a rotation.

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So you're not just monocropping

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and growing wheat every year.

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You're incorporating a 
lot of different crops.

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You know, some of 
 our folks have nine,

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10, 11 year rotations.

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- Okay thank you, we'll be back

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with some questions for 
  Jamie, they are coming in,

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meanwhile we have Jane,

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our invasive wheat 
  specialist tonight

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and I have a stack 
 of leftover questions

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from last week and a 
few new ones coming in.

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First of all from Townsend,

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this person has a lot of 
 cheatgrass in their alfalfa.

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They would like to know 
if they can spray it out

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when the alfalfa 
becomes dormant?

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Your comment and if you can,

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what would you suggest using?

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- Yeah, that is a 
 strategy for dealing

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with cheatgrass in alfalfa.

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Now would be a good time to do 
 that in the fall of the year.

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Cheatgrass comes up 
 in the fall and then,

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so now would be an option 
  if the cheatgrass is up

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and the alfalfa is dormant.

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The other option would be 
  to do that in the spring

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and typically people are 
  using glyphosate products

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at a fairly low rate, like 
 four to six ounces per acre.

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So that is an option.

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You can target the cheatgrass 
 when it is actively growing,

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but your alfalfa is dormant.

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Typically, if you're 
 trying to choose

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between fall or spring,

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spring has worked a 
little better for people

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and I think one of the reasons 
 it does work a little better

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is cheatgrass, most of 
it emerges in the fall,

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but you do have some seeds

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that don't germinate and 
emerge until the spring,

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late winter, early spring.

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So if you wait until spring,

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you're able to control both 
 the fall emerging seedlings

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and the spring 
 emerging seedlings.

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So that's probably 
  the best option is

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just a small, not small, 
  but a low rate application

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of glyphosate when the 
 alfalfa is dormant.

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- I mean what about,

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you know given Jamie's 
 presence here today,

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what about for 
 somebody who's organic

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and doesn't want 
  to use glyphosate?

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- Yeah, well you have

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a couple different 
options with cheatgrass.

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They're a little more, they're 
 a little more challenging,

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I would say.

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You know, one of the reasons

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I think people a lot of 
people use herbicides

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is they're pretty, 
 they're easy to use.

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They're quick and easy to use,

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but another option would 
be some fall grazing

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if you have the option of 
grazing in your alfalfa fields.

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Cheatgrass is very good forage

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when it's in that 
  seedling stage.

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So fall or spring grazing.

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I think that would 
 probably be you know,

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an option that would 
 control the cheatgrass

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without stimulating 
 other weeds to grow

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and of course it's 
 always very important

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to manage that alfalfa well.

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So fertilizing it at 
the right time you know,

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taking good care of your alfalfa

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so it can be as 
 strong and competitive

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and vigorous as possible.

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- All right, thank you.

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Yeah you mentioned that, 
throw this out to Jamie

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and you anybody else 
 who wants to jump in.

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If you're establishing 
 an organic system,

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are weeds the most 
  difficult things

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that you have to contend with

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in order to have a viable 
  crop, your opinion?

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- My opinion?

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I mean it's certainly 
 something to consider.

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I think for 
  transitioning to organic,

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you know, what most folks 
  have the problem with is

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that your yield might go down,

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but your prices are 
  still those lower prices,

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you're not getting 
those organic premiums.

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So I think that is probably 
 one of the first barriers.

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I'm not, I don't 
 know of any research

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that's been done on that,

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but that's an 
 interesting question.

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- I do know several 
 organic farmers

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who have left the 
  organic program

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because they couldn't 
control perennial weeds.

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Primarily bindweed 
 and Canada thistle,

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even with tillage are

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sometimes really 
challenging to control.

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so they've left 
organic, sprayed it out

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and then come back into organic.

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so those are challenging weeds.

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- [Jack] Okay thank you.

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- Yes, and I could add 
 Jack that a few years back,

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MSU worked with your 
 Organic Research

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and Education Advisory Council

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and we surveyed organic 
growers across the state

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asking them about some of,

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what some of their most 
challenging issues were

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and like Clain said, 
 perennial weeds,

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particularly Canada thistle

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and field bindweed 
  rose to the top.

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- I agree with that entirely.

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We're on organic pesticides.

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Mary, there's a question here.

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Are there any organic 
 approved fungicides

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for gardens and also 
 they want to know

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if you could use any on wheat.

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- Yeah, there are a number 
  of approved fungicides.

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The best database 
  that I've found,

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especially for 
 commercial growers is

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the IR-4 Biopesticide database

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and the great thing about that 
 is that the data associated

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with the use is right 
 there linked to the product

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and you can choose by crop or 
 by function and your state.

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Always make sure 
that the product is 
registered in the state

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before you would apply it 
 and the big problem we have

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with organic problem,

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organic products is 
 that efficacy data,

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we just don't have a lot.

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So you can be sold 
  something saying

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that it will do 
  something for you,

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but even if you look at 
  the literature associated

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with the product, you may 
  not find any information

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on that use.

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So you kind of have 
 to do your homework.

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- It's kind of a 
  new industry too.

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- It is, but you know, 
 I've got staff working

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on organic options and not 
  only for organic growers,

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but conventional growers.

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I think 80% of the organically 
 approved pesticides are used

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in conventional operations.

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- That's an 
 interesting statistic.

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Okay, thank you.

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Jamie, an interesting question 
 came in from Missoula.

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This person thinks 
  for the most part

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that the organic agriculture 
 or organic products is more

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about marketing 
 than anything else.

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Would you agree to that or not?

253
00:14:12,766 --> 00:14:14,566
- No, absolutely not.

254
00:14:16,133 --> 00:14:21,133
Our organic producers adhere 
to strict guidelines and rules.

255
00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:26,666
You know, to stay organic 
 they're inspected every year.

256
00:14:29,966 --> 00:14:31,133
The rules are established

257
00:14:31,133 --> 00:14:33,300
by the National 
Organic Standards Board

258
00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:35,333
and Montana is very proud

259
00:14:35,333 --> 00:14:38,700
to have one of our MOA members,

260
00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:41,633
Nate Powell-Palm 
 sits on that board.

261
00:14:41,633 --> 00:14:44,333
We've only had two 
 Montanans sit on that,

262
00:14:44,333 --> 00:14:47,633
so it's a big deal.

263
00:14:47,633 --> 00:14:52,633
We're very proud of him 
 and if your operation sells

264
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:57,200
under five thousand 
 dollars' worth of products,

265
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,366
you don't have to worry about 
 the certification as much,

266
00:15:00,366 --> 00:15:04,833
but if you put an organic 
label on a non-organic product,

267
00:15:04,833 --> 00:15:07,300
you can actually be 
 subjected to a fine

268
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:10,833
of up to $17,000.

269
00:15:10,833 --> 00:15:13,866
Organic fraud is an issue.

270
00:15:13,866 --> 00:15:18,566
There is legislation to 
 strengthen organic inspections

271
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,866
and rules, but no, it's 
  not just a marketing tool.

272
00:15:23,866 --> 00:15:26,633
- Okay thank you, back to Clain.

273
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,200
This question always 
 comes in in the fall.

274
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,066
When is it a good time 
to fertilize your lawn?

275
00:15:34,066 --> 00:15:35,533
Right now or wait?

276
00:15:37,133 --> 00:15:39,100
- I would say I 
 would say right now

277
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:44,100
till maybe early October is 
 a good time to fertilize.

278
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,033
If you've already 
fertilized quite a bit,

279
00:15:47,033 --> 00:15:49,533
you might not have to, but 
 those people who spread it out

280
00:15:49,533 --> 00:15:52,466
among three or 
  four applications.

281
00:15:52,466 --> 00:15:55,500
Right now is a really good time.

282
00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:59,300
It will help your grass 
 green up in the springtime.

283
00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:02,866
- Okay, as long as we're on 
 the organic subject tonight,

284
00:16:02,866 --> 00:16:05,100
are there some 
 organic fertilizers

285
00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:08,800
that you could use on 
lawns, not just gardens,

286
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,733
but lawns or for that 
 matter, fields too.

287
00:16:13,066 --> 00:16:15,933
- Yeah, there's a huge 
 number of products out there,

288
00:16:15,933 --> 00:16:18,200
probably more for the 
 home gardener actually

289
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,466
than for a large-scale 
 agriculture.

290
00:16:20,466 --> 00:16:25,366
From rock phosphate, bone 
 meal for phosphorus sources,

291
00:16:25,366 --> 00:16:29,133
there's blood meal, feather 
 meal for nitrogen sources,

292
00:16:29,133 --> 00:16:32,466
there's potassium 
 and chloride sources.

293
00:16:32,466 --> 00:16:35,366
So a whole bunch of organic 
 products are out there

294
00:16:35,366 --> 00:16:36,800
for the home gardener.

295
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,500
The large scale ag, some 
of those same exist,

296
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:44,700
but sometimes they become a 
 little more cost prohibitive

297
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:48,200
than they do for 
  organic gardener.

298
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,666
I think the biggest thing 
  that organic farmers

299
00:16:50,666 --> 00:16:54,633
on a large acreage fight 
 with is nitrogen sufficiency

300
00:16:55,833 --> 00:16:58,933
and so how they often 
 get their nitrogen is

301
00:16:58,933 --> 00:17:01,466
either with green manures, 
  meaning growing plants,

302
00:17:01,466 --> 00:17:06,166
legumes that provide 
  nitrogen or animal manure.

303
00:17:06,166 --> 00:17:07,666
So those are the main two ways

304
00:17:07,666 --> 00:17:12,033
that a lot of farmers will 
 get their organic nutrients.

305
00:17:12,033 --> 00:17:16,000
- Okay thank you, Mary 
 a call from Heron.

306
00:17:17,333 --> 00:17:20,333
This person has grown 
 sunflowers on the north side,

307
00:17:20,333 --> 00:17:22,766
I assume of their 
 house for 40 years.

308
00:17:22,766 --> 00:17:25,566
The last couple of years 
they've been damping off

309
00:17:25,566 --> 00:17:29,766
when they near maturity before 
 they bloom, what's wrong?

310
00:17:29,766 --> 00:17:32,466
- It could be a disease 
called white mold

311
00:17:32,466 --> 00:17:35,400
that is very common in 
 sunflowers and other dicots

312
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,766
and a characteristic 
symptom of that is that

313
00:17:38,766 --> 00:17:41,233
where it usually infects 
through the flower,

314
00:17:41,233 --> 00:17:43,966
but if it affects at the 
stem, it's very gray,

315
00:17:43,966 --> 00:17:46,500
has a gray cast and they could 
 certainly give us a sample

316
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:48,266
and we can easily diagnose that.

317
00:17:48,266 --> 00:17:50,366
- If you're growing 
sunflowers for 40 years

318
00:17:50,366 --> 00:17:52,300
in the same place, 
  the likelihood

319
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:53,266
of having white 
 mold is pretty high.

320
00:17:53,266 --> 00:17:54,500
- Is pretty high.

321
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:56,533
I'm surprised they 
 can keep doing that

322
00:17:56,533 --> 00:17:59,000
'cause the soil quality 
gets really poor.

323
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,233
- It does, okay thank you.

324
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:07,733
From Bozeman, Jamie is 
 organic production increasing

325
00:18:07,733 --> 00:18:08,600
in the state?

326
00:18:09,566 --> 00:18:11,333
- Absolutely, yeah.

327
00:18:11,333 --> 00:18:15,366
It's gone up the double 
digits for years.

328
00:18:15,366 --> 00:18:20,366
We have over 320 operations 
 now and that includes handlers

329
00:18:21,233 --> 00:18:22,400
and coffee roasters and things,

330
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:27,166
but we are, Montana 
 is the second,

331
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:31,133
has the second highest 
 organic acreage in the country

332
00:18:31,133 --> 00:18:32,533
right behind California.

333
00:18:34,166 --> 00:18:35,433
- [Jack] That's 
  pretty impressive.

334
00:18:35,433 --> 00:18:36,433
- That's impressive.

335
00:18:37,833 --> 00:18:40,900
- Financially, is it more 
  profitable in general

336
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:44,733
to sell organic produce 
or organic wheat

337
00:18:44,733 --> 00:18:48,233
than it is just normal 
 production crops?

338
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,700
- In general, you're 
  gonna get a premium, yeah.

339
00:18:53,333 --> 00:18:56,366
You know, certainly 
 with a higher supply

340
00:18:56,366 --> 00:18:59,800
of organic products, 
the price will go down.

341
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,200
I know in my grocery store,

342
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:06,100
a lot a lot of times 
 the organic apples say

343
00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:07,966
or the organic bananas are,

344
00:19:07,966 --> 00:19:10,500
the price is pretty 
same as the non-organic.

345
00:19:11,766 --> 00:19:14,233
So in general, yeah 
there will be a premium.

346
00:19:14,233 --> 00:19:16,366
- Okay, thank you.

347
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,400
Interesting question for 
  Jane from Eastern Montana.

348
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,233
This person has problems 
with puncturevine

349
00:19:24,233 --> 00:19:27,666
and I grew up around 
 puncturevine and 
 old bicycle tires

350
00:19:27,666 --> 00:19:30,033
and they didn't get 
 along very well.

351
00:19:30,033 --> 00:19:33,333
They would like to know if it 
 is a noxious weed in Montana

352
00:19:33,333 --> 00:19:36,633
and if not, how does it 
become a noxious weed?

353
00:19:36,633 --> 00:19:37,466
Have at it.

354
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:41,000
- Okay yeah, so 
 puncturevine is not

355
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,233
on the state noxious weed list.

356
00:19:44,233 --> 00:19:46,866
It may be on some county lists,

357
00:19:48,066 --> 00:19:51,333
but I haven't seen that 
list for a couple years

358
00:19:51,333 --> 00:19:55,566
for the different counties 
  so I don't know exactly.

359
00:19:55,566 --> 00:19:57,533
If the person wanted to find out

360
00:19:57,533 --> 00:20:01,666
if it was on the county 
 list where the person lives,

361
00:20:01,666 --> 00:20:04,266
they could call their 
 county weed district

362
00:20:04,266 --> 00:20:08,333
and ask about any 
 county listed species.

363
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,633
As far as a species 
 becoming a state list,

364
00:20:13,633 --> 00:20:15,700
becoming a state noxious weed,

365
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:20,033
that is done through the Montana 
Department of Agriculture

366
00:20:20,033 --> 00:20:24,700
and there is a process 
  where someone can petition

367
00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:28,433
to have a species added 
  to the noxious weed list.

368
00:20:28,433 --> 00:20:31,766
Actually the Department of 
  AG is accepting petitions

369
00:20:31,766 --> 00:20:33,766
through the end of this month.

370
00:20:33,766 --> 00:20:35,866
Once they have those petitions,

371
00:20:35,866 --> 00:20:39,066
it is reviewed by a 
 group of volunteers

372
00:20:39,066 --> 00:20:41,300
that look at the species,

373
00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:43,033
they review the information.

374
00:20:43,033 --> 00:20:44,733
They might do a 
  literature review

375
00:20:44,733 --> 00:20:47,533
as far as what's 
available research-wise,

376
00:20:47,533 --> 00:20:49,433
what do we know 
 about this species.

377
00:20:50,733 --> 00:20:53,600
They make a recommendation 
  to the director

378
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,233
of the Department of AG 
 and ultimately the director

379
00:20:57,233 --> 00:20:59,833
of the Department of AG rules

380
00:20:59,833 --> 00:21:03,366
whether or not a species gets 
 added to the noxious weed list

381
00:21:03,366 --> 00:21:06,033
and there is a 
 public comment period

382
00:21:06,033 --> 00:21:08,733
that is incorporated 
 into the process,

383
00:21:08,733 --> 00:21:13,733
but if this viewer is, wants 
to know if it's locally listed,

384
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,800
I would suggest they contact 
 their county weed district.

385
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,033
- How widespread 
 Jane, is puncturevine

386
00:21:21,033 --> 00:21:22,533
in the state of Montana?

387
00:21:22,533 --> 00:21:25,066
I have not seen much of it, 
 but I hope not (mumbles).

388
00:21:26,266 --> 00:21:27,533
- Yeah, yeah I 
 haven't either Jack

389
00:21:27,533 --> 00:21:29,800
and it's interesting 
 that this call came in

390
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,200
from Eastern Montana.

391
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,233
Usually when I get questions 
 about puncturevine,

392
00:21:34,233 --> 00:21:37,100
it's coming from 
 Yellowstone county.

393
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:40,400
So the Billings area and 
then maybe to the south

394
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,166
and the east from Billings.

395
00:21:43,166 --> 00:21:46,033
I don't get many questions

396
00:21:46,033 --> 00:21:50,133
and I haven't seen 
 it myself in counties

397
00:21:50,133 --> 00:21:52,033
in the rest of the state.

398
00:21:52,033 --> 00:21:57,033
- Okay thank you, I'll turn 
 this one to Jamie and Mary.

399
00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:03,533
A caller from Helena would 
 like details on what research

400
00:22:03,533 --> 00:22:07,300
by the Montana AG Experiment 
 Station is ongoing

401
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:09,133
relative to organic agriculture.

402
00:22:09,133 --> 00:22:12,300
So between the two 
 of you, let us know.

403
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:14,433
- Well I've been in the job 
 for a week, so I'm an expert.

404
00:22:14,433 --> 00:22:16,000
- Oh, so you should know by now.

405
00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:18,933
- (laughs) We've been 
 doing a little bit

406
00:22:18,933 --> 00:22:21,033
for fungicide seed treatments.

407
00:22:21,033 --> 00:22:24,433
I know Zach Miller at western 
 has been doing a bunch

408
00:22:24,433 --> 00:22:28,800
on weed management, 
 perennial weeds especially.

409
00:22:30,033 --> 00:22:31,866
There's been a number 
 of other projects,

410
00:22:31,866 --> 00:22:34,233
but there's a 
 whole organic acre.

411
00:22:34,233 --> 00:22:38,433
Perry Miller's been doing a 
 lot of with sheep grazing.

412
00:22:38,433 --> 00:22:41,033
What other ones are 
 you aware of Jamie?

413
00:22:41,033 --> 00:22:44,966
- Pat Carr at Moccasin and 
 then Dave Sands too is doing

414
00:22:44,966 --> 00:22:48,533
some really innovative 
 work with bio control

415
00:22:48,533 --> 00:22:50,800
of Canadian thistle.

416
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:53,966
- Yeah, so quite a bit.

417
00:22:53,966 --> 00:22:56,466
- Yeah, and I think 
 you're gonna see more.

418
00:22:56,466 --> 00:22:59,266
- Yeah, there's probably 
  a lot we don't know about.

419
00:22:59,266 --> 00:23:00,733
- Well, no that's true,

420
00:23:00,733 --> 00:23:01,766
but at least there is 
  quite a little bit ongoing

421
00:23:01,766 --> 00:23:03,200
at the current time. 
 - Yes.

422
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:05,833
- Yeah okay.

423
00:23:05,833 --> 00:23:07,933
- Jack, I believe Tim Seifel 
 who I think was on last week,

424
00:23:07,933 --> 00:23:10,000
he's the crop weed specialist.

425
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,100
He's working with Canada 
thistle and bindweed

426
00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:14,533
with some of the,

427
00:23:14,533 --> 00:23:15,900
I think some of the people

428
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:18,033
that Mary and Jamie 
 have mentioned

429
00:23:18,033 --> 00:23:20,866
like Pat Carr and Zach Miller.

430
00:23:20,866 --> 00:23:22,900
- Okay and why have you, Jane,

431
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:24,433
here's an interesting question.

432
00:23:24,433 --> 00:23:27,400
I look forward to seeing 
what you have to say.

433
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,566
The Whitefish community garden 
 growers would like to know

434
00:23:30,566 --> 00:23:32,766
how to control bindweed

435
00:23:32,766 --> 00:23:35,366
which has started 
growing in their plots.

436
00:23:35,366 --> 00:23:38,766
They would like an 
  organic remedy, go for it.

437
00:23:38,766 --> 00:23:41,200
- Yeah well, too 
  bad Tim isn't here

438
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,566
to talk about some of the 
  research they're doing,

439
00:23:43,566 --> 00:23:48,566
but so field bindweed, if 
 people have watched this show

440
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,700
for any period of time, they 
 know that we always get calls

441
00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:53,100
about field bindweed.

442
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:56,366
It's one of these perennial 
 species that creeps

443
00:23:56,366 --> 00:23:58,500
as a very extensive root system.

444
00:24:00,366 --> 00:24:04,700
It sounds like the 
 caller says it's just

445
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:07,366
maybe starting to show up 
  and that's a good thing

446
00:24:07,366 --> 00:24:10,366
because if it's just 
 starting to show up,

447
00:24:10,366 --> 00:24:15,000
I would encourage them to 
  just continue to pull it.

448
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,033
Every time you see 
  the sprouts coming

449
00:24:18,033 --> 00:24:20,700
through the surface 
 of the soil, pull it

450
00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:22,666
because if you 
 continue to pull it,

451
00:24:22,666 --> 00:24:27,666
the plant has to rely on its 
 root reserves to grow back

452
00:24:28,866 --> 00:24:31,700
and if you can keep 
 pulling the leaves off

453
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:35,366
and disturbing that root system,

454
00:24:35,366 --> 00:24:37,933
you can deplete the 
 roots over time,

455
00:24:37,933 --> 00:24:39,533
but you need to be doing that

456
00:24:39,533 --> 00:24:42,733
like every time you see 
the sprouts coming up

457
00:24:42,733 --> 00:24:44,000
and you probably you know,

458
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,266
do that throughout 
  the growing season

459
00:24:46,266 --> 00:24:48,400
and you'll probably need to 
 do it for a couple years.

460
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,833
You can't let up or back off.

461
00:24:50,833 --> 00:24:52,433
You have to stay on top of it.

462
00:24:53,833 --> 00:24:55,800
- If you tilt it, you 
  just spread it, don't you?

463
00:24:56,966 --> 00:24:59,466
- Yeah that, if you're 
breaking it up and yeah,

464
00:24:59,466 --> 00:25:04,166
it can, the root fragments 
  can continue to grow.

465
00:25:04,166 --> 00:25:06,366
I'm trying to think if 
 there'd be any other.

466
00:25:06,366 --> 00:25:09,366
- Can you landscape fabric 
  that section of the garden

467
00:25:09,366 --> 00:25:10,333
for a while and?

468
00:25:10,333 --> 00:25:11,600
- Yeah, I was going to say

469
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,733
like some sort of 
  physical barrier.

470
00:25:13,733 --> 00:25:18,433
Some sort of landscape 
 fabric, black plastic.

471
00:25:18,433 --> 00:25:21,133
Even mulch you know, if you 
 could get some mulch down

472
00:25:21,133 --> 00:25:22,800
to try to shade it out.

473
00:25:23,666 --> 00:25:25,933
- Okay good answer folks.

474
00:25:25,933 --> 00:25:29,900
While I have you up, this 
 person called in from Billings

475
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:31,166
and would like to know

476
00:25:31,166 --> 00:25:34,666
is puncturevine the 
 same as goat heads?

477
00:25:34,666 --> 00:25:35,666
- Yes it is.

478
00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:40,133
- Farther south you go, 
  they call them goat heads.

479
00:25:40,133 --> 00:25:42,766
Farther north you go, they 
  call them puncturevines.

480
00:25:43,933 --> 00:25:45,566
That's what I've 
  been told anyway.

481
00:25:46,966 --> 00:25:50,266
Clain, this is an 
 interesting question.

482
00:25:50,266 --> 00:25:55,300
This person has a whole 
bunch of spruce trees

483
00:25:56,166 --> 00:25:57,300
about 65 of them in fact.

484
00:25:57,300 --> 00:25:59,066
They're 10 to 20 feet tall,

485
00:25:59,066 --> 00:26:02,266
eight to 15 years 
 old from Livingston.

486
00:26:02,266 --> 00:26:06,600
He has been fertilizing 
with 17, 17, 17.

487
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:07,833
Should he continue?

488
00:26:10,533 --> 00:26:15,266
- Good question, I would 
strongly recommend a soil test.

489
00:26:15,266 --> 00:26:17,966
Not knowing how many pounds, 
 he or she's putting down,

490
00:26:20,166 --> 00:26:21,433
it's really hard to know

491
00:26:21,433 --> 00:26:25,200
if there's possibly too 
much nutrients on there.

492
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,766
When I think of trees,

493
00:26:27,766 --> 00:26:29,300
we don't have a tree expert on,

494
00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:33,233
but I think some of you know 
 a little more than I do,

495
00:26:33,233 --> 00:26:37,366
I think of their 
  needs for nitrogen

496
00:26:37,366 --> 00:26:41,433
possibly not being as much 
 as P and K, but I don't know.

497
00:26:41,433 --> 00:26:43,600
I know that over 
winter survival,

498
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,166
phosphorus is more 
important than nitrogen.

499
00:26:46,166 --> 00:26:48,966
I would really strongly 
recommend a soil test

500
00:26:48,966 --> 00:26:51,000
before deciding what to put on.

501
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,533
You might find for example 
 one of those nutrients is low

502
00:26:54,533 --> 00:26:56,333
and the other two are excessive.

503
00:26:56,333 --> 00:27:00,400
In which case that fertilizer 
 regime should change.

504
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,900
- You know, I think 17, 17, 17 
 is an acceptable fertilizer,

505
00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:07,366
but I don't think 
 at this time of year

506
00:27:07,366 --> 00:27:10,433
I would be fertilizing because 
 you don't wanna promote

507
00:27:10,433 --> 00:27:12,966
new growth as we 
approach winter.

508
00:27:12,966 --> 00:27:14,966
We could get a 15 degree night

509
00:27:14,966 --> 00:27:18,033
and you could really do 
 some damage to those trees.

510
00:27:18,033 --> 00:27:22,533
So I've often said that you 
should probably stop fertilizing

511
00:27:22,533 --> 00:27:26,466
if you are fertilizing around 
 the first week of July.

512
00:27:27,633 --> 00:27:30,033
If you over fertilize, 
 you stimulate trees

513
00:27:30,033 --> 00:27:32,100
and stimulated trees 
 that grow faster

514
00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:36,266
than their genetically 
 supposed to are often damaged

515
00:27:36,266 --> 00:27:38,100
by winter here in Montana.

516
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:39,033
- Yeah, and Cheryl 
  last week talked

517
00:27:39,033 --> 00:27:40,266
about watering and tapering off,

518
00:27:40,266 --> 00:27:42,733
watering now until 
 things are dormant.

519
00:27:42,733 --> 00:27:45,433
- Okay. 
- If that person

520
00:27:45,433 --> 00:27:47,766
or anyone wants to 
 know how to soil test

521
00:27:47,766 --> 00:27:49,833
or where to send a soil to,

522
00:27:49,833 --> 00:27:54,100
they can go to my website by 
 googling Clain and then soil

523
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:58,433
and I usually come up and then 
 jump over to home gardening

524
00:27:58,433 --> 00:28:00,666
on the left and they'll 
  find a whole list of labs

525
00:28:00,666 --> 00:28:03,066
and some tips for soil sampling.

526
00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:05,300
- Okay thanks Clain.

527
00:28:07,433 --> 00:28:09,400
Interesting question 
 from Three Forks,

528
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,000
actually two of them 
 came from Three Forks.

529
00:28:12,966 --> 00:28:14,300
Jamie, they would like to know

530
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:17,866
where to get information 
about the transitioning

531
00:28:17,866 --> 00:28:22,733
from regular farming 
 into organic farming.

532
00:28:22,733 --> 00:28:26,066
How would they get information 
 on being successful

533
00:28:26,066 --> 00:28:27,533
if they wanted to try that?

534
00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:31,133
- Well they can start 
with us and our website

535
00:28:31,133 --> 00:28:34,900
and we can direct them 
 to different resources

536
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:38,866
and connect, oftentimes 
 with farmers in their areas

537
00:28:38,866 --> 00:28:43,366
and the crops or 
livestock whatever 
activities they're doing

538
00:28:43,366 --> 00:28:47,133
and those experienced farmers

539
00:28:47,133 --> 00:28:49,033
or ranchers can 
  serve as a mentor.

540
00:28:50,266 --> 00:28:55,266
The Montana Department 
of AG organic program is

541
00:28:56,666 --> 00:28:58,766
a really good resource 
  and they can help connect

542
00:28:58,766 --> 00:29:03,766
with cost share dollars to help 
with organic certification.

543
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,700
So to offset some of the 
  costs of being certified.

544
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:12,466
NCAT ATTRA headquartered 
in Butte has

545
00:29:12,466 --> 00:29:14,166
some really good resources.

546
00:29:15,566 --> 00:29:19,900
The USDA organic program 
also has some good,

547
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:23,633
basic information 
 about transitioning

548
00:29:23,633 --> 00:29:25,866
and what you should 
 be thinking about.

549
00:29:25,866 --> 00:29:29,800
- Okay, second question 
also from Three Forks,

550
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,266
they're led to believe 
 that organic crops are

551
00:29:32,266 --> 00:29:36,166
more nutritious 
 than conventional 
 crops, is that true?

552
00:29:37,433 --> 00:29:41,800
- You know, there 
 is research on that.

553
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:46,500
It's still in the 
  beginning stages.

554
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:47,700
You don't really see that

555
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:50,600
sort of nutritional 
research done in the US.

556
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,266
There is some 
 going on in Europe.

557
00:29:54,466 --> 00:29:57,800
You know I, and looking 
at the phytonutrients.

558
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,600
So really tiny parts.

559
00:30:00,733 --> 00:30:02,900
You know, as far 
as I'm concerned

560
00:30:04,066 --> 00:30:05,866
part of it comes down to taste.

561
00:30:05,866 --> 00:30:09,366
Like an organic apple 
 just tastes better

562
00:30:09,366 --> 00:30:13,200
than a non-organic apple and 
 that's a lot healthier choice

563
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,600
in a lot of ways.

564
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,666
So I'm really excited to 
know about the research

565
00:30:22,033 --> 00:30:25,533
that will be going looking 
  at different items.

566
00:30:25,533 --> 00:30:27,800
Our keynote speaker this year

567
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,233
for our virtual conference 
  is Fred Provenza

568
00:30:31,233 --> 00:30:36,233
and he is doing research that 
 is looking at soil health,

569
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,566
connecting that to 
  livestock health

570
00:30:39,566 --> 00:30:41,466
and connecting that 
 to human health.

571
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:43,866
- Okay thank you.

572
00:30:45,033 --> 00:30:47,900
Mary, this question 
 is from Manhattan.

573
00:30:49,333 --> 00:30:51,833
They have a lot of what they 
 believe are fungal leaf spots

574
00:30:51,833 --> 00:30:53,033
on their aspen.

575
00:30:54,233 --> 00:30:56,466
Is there any control.

576
00:30:56,466 --> 00:30:57,800
I know it's too late this year,

577
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,033
but looking forward to 
 next year and onward,

578
00:31:01,033 --> 00:31:02,300
what would you suggest?

579
00:31:02,300 --> 00:31:04,066
- Yeah, good thing about 
the fungal leaf spots is

580
00:31:04,066 --> 00:31:07,066
unless your trees defoliated 
 several years in a row

581
00:31:07,066 --> 00:31:09,866
very early, they're not 
 gonna really harm the tree,

582
00:31:09,866 --> 00:31:12,166
but you can get rid of 
 all that leaf litter,

583
00:31:12,166 --> 00:31:15,266
remove it from the area so 
 it can't re-infect the tree

584
00:31:15,266 --> 00:31:17,200
and that would go 
  quite a long ways

585
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,866
and obviously don't like 
  spray or treat with water.

586
00:31:20,866 --> 00:31:22,666
- You know, it normally shows 
 up late enough in the year

587
00:31:22,666 --> 00:31:24,833
that it doesn't do much 
  damage, but you're right,

588
00:31:24,833 --> 00:31:27,066
cleaning up and I hate that work

589
00:31:27,066 --> 00:31:28,300
because that's a lot of work.

590
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:30,600
- It is a lot of work, 
but those leaf blowers,

591
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,166
you know, they do a good job.

592
00:31:32,166 --> 00:31:33,633
- That helps, but 
  the real key is

593
00:31:33,633 --> 00:31:37,266
you cut your lawn real 
 short and let the wind blow

594
00:31:37,266 --> 00:31:38,600
and all those leaves--

595
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:39,533
- Goes to your neighbors.

596
00:31:39,533 --> 00:31:40,766
- It goes to your neighbors

597
00:31:40,766 --> 00:31:41,966
and that works, I 
  can verify that.

598
00:31:43,166 --> 00:31:44,333
I have you up Mary,

599
00:31:44,333 --> 00:31:47,400
Powdery mildew on squash 
was bad this year,

600
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,900
what would you suggest?

601
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:51,600
- You know, I always have it bad

602
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,433
late in the year particularly

603
00:31:53,433 --> 00:31:56,666
and I think it's because I 
 overhead irrigate quite a bit

604
00:31:56,666 --> 00:31:59,900
and the varieties I use 
are very susceptible

605
00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:01,566
to the disease.

606
00:32:01,566 --> 00:32:04,333
It's one of those diseases 
 that you can do sanitation,

607
00:32:04,333 --> 00:32:05,866
you'll throw that trash away,

608
00:32:05,866 --> 00:32:08,533
don't compost it and 
reintroduce it into your garden,

609
00:32:09,766 --> 00:32:12,100
but it's around all the time.

610
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:17,100
So if you can use 
probably P is the signal

611
00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:20,466
in the seed catalog for 
powdery mildew or PM,

612
00:32:20,466 --> 00:32:21,733
you can check the key.

613
00:32:21,733 --> 00:32:24,066
Use varieties that 
 have some resistance

614
00:32:24,066 --> 00:32:26,333
and then don't overhead 
irrigate like I do.

615
00:32:26,333 --> 00:32:27,400
- (laughs) That works.

616
00:32:28,666 --> 00:32:30,500
Jane, a couple of things here.

617
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:33,566
First of all, your 
sister says hi from Iowa

618
00:32:33,566 --> 00:32:37,400
and you have a fan club all 
over the country, it's amazing.

619
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:38,900
New York, Iowa.

620
00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:40,966
- I have a big family.

621
00:32:40,966 --> 00:32:45,333
- Okay, anyway they 
 said to say hi,

622
00:32:45,333 --> 00:32:46,766
but while I have you up,

623
00:32:48,066 --> 00:32:50,866
this person from 
  Hamilton has prickly pear

624
00:32:50,866 --> 00:32:52,466
and they would like 
 to get rid of them,

625
00:32:52,466 --> 00:32:54,766
preferably an organic method.

626
00:32:56,766 --> 00:33:00,666
- Oh prickly pear is 
  really hard to deal with,

627
00:33:00,666 --> 00:33:04,600
whether it's organic 
 or conventional.

628
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,566
It's a challenging 
  species to try to control.

629
00:33:08,566 --> 00:33:10,866
You can mechanically control it,

630
00:33:10,866 --> 00:33:13,000
but that's a little,

631
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,166
that's a little tenuous because

632
00:33:17,166 --> 00:33:21,500
when you break it apart, 
it can re-root as well.

633
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:24,900
So if you're looking at 
mechanical disturbance,

634
00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:27,333
it would need to 
  be pretty intense

635
00:33:27,333 --> 00:33:30,666
and of course when you 
 disturb the soil like that,

636
00:33:30,666 --> 00:33:34,466
you also open yourself up 
 for other weeds to increase

637
00:33:34,466 --> 00:33:36,500
because weeds love disturbance

638
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:38,500
and they do really 
 well with disturbance.

639
00:33:39,733 --> 00:33:43,166
I'd have to think about 
that a little bit more,

640
00:33:43,166 --> 00:33:47,933
but I would encourage the 
viewer to think about you know,

641
00:33:47,933 --> 00:33:50,600
why they wanna get 
 rid of prickly pear.

642
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,266
It is a native species.

643
00:33:53,266 --> 00:33:57,333
It usually tends to grow 
  in certain types of soils.

644
00:33:57,333 --> 00:34:00,500
You know, coarse soils 
 that are pretty dry.

645
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:02,700
So if you get rid 
 of the prickly pear,

646
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:05,500
you need to think about 
 well, it's not growing there

647
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:07,466
and occupying that soil,

648
00:34:07,466 --> 00:34:09,366
what else might grow there?

649
00:34:09,366 --> 00:34:12,266
And the what else could 
potentially be worse

650
00:34:12,266 --> 00:34:13,900
than the prickly pear.

651
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:16,700
So I think you know,

652
00:34:16,700 --> 00:34:20,900
thinking about why you 
 wanna get rid of it,

653
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:23,333
what you would rather 
 have growing there is

654
00:34:23,333 --> 00:34:26,500
an important 
 consideration to make.

655
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:28,133
That person can 
 always give me a call

656
00:34:28,133 --> 00:34:29,566
if they wanna talk more about it

657
00:34:29,566 --> 00:34:32,266
and maybe if we put 
our two heads together,

658
00:34:32,266 --> 00:34:34,900
we can come up with 
 some solutions.

659
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:37,366
- Okay if you're not 
  going to do it organically

660
00:34:37,366 --> 00:34:40,333
with things like 
 roundup or glyphosate,

661
00:34:40,333 --> 00:34:41,833
would that take 
 care of prickly pear

662
00:34:41,833 --> 00:34:43,100
if you dabbed it on them?

663
00:34:44,466 --> 00:34:49,066
- Well I don't think glyphosate 
will work on prickly pear,

664
00:34:49,066 --> 00:34:50,600
but I'm not sure.

665
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,966
When I've looked at some of 
 the weed management guidebooks

666
00:34:54,966 --> 00:34:57,566
over the years when 
 people have called me

667
00:34:57,566 --> 00:34:59,600
asking about prickly pear,

668
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,833
if I remember correctly,

669
00:35:00,833 --> 00:35:03,333
one of the options is picloram

670
00:35:03,333 --> 00:35:08,333
which picloram is a 
pretty strong herbicide

671
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:10,866
that has a lot of 
 residual in the soil

672
00:35:10,866 --> 00:35:14,333
and it also has some 
 non-target impacts

673
00:35:14,333 --> 00:35:16,366
to desired vegetation.

674
00:35:16,366 --> 00:35:17,966
So again, you're looking at

675
00:35:17,966 --> 00:35:23,000
a pretty intense management 
 action to control something

676
00:35:24,566 --> 00:35:26,266
that might be growing there

677
00:35:26,266 --> 00:35:28,166
because it's the habitat

678
00:35:28,166 --> 00:35:30,900
that's conducive 
to prickly pear.

679
00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:34,166
So there's a lot of 
 considerations on this one.

680
00:35:34,166 --> 00:35:39,066
All right, we have a lot of 
questions tonight about insects.

681
00:35:40,366 --> 00:35:42,200
We don't have a 
  entomologist on the panel,

682
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,500
we will have them in the future.

683
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:46,200
So those questions will be saved

684
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,600
and in the future, we'll 
get to a lot of those.

685
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,533
Mary, Posen Coller 
 has a small vineyard.

686
00:35:54,533 --> 00:35:57,100
Is Captan fungicide and organic?

687
00:35:57,100 --> 00:35:59,300
- No. 
 - No, okay.

688
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,666
This is good, 
 caller from Bozeman.

689
00:36:02,666 --> 00:36:07,300
Is organic cattle rats ranching 
a viable option in Montana?

690
00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:08,966
Have at it Jamie.

691
00:36:08,966 --> 00:36:11,800
- Oh yeah, with COVID,

692
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,800
our organic grass-fed cattle 
 ranchers have been very busy.

693
00:36:17,966 --> 00:36:20,433
They already kind 
 of operate outside,

694
00:36:20,433 --> 00:36:21,533
well they do operate

695
00:36:21,533 --> 00:36:25,066
outside the non-organic 
cattle markets

696
00:36:25,066 --> 00:36:30,100
and so yes, organic 
  grass-fed cattle ranching

697
00:36:33,033 --> 00:36:37,400
is viable and robust.

698
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,133
- Okay, I know of 
  a lot of people

699
00:36:41,133 --> 00:36:43,433
that have switched 
  to grass-fed beef,

700
00:36:45,166 --> 00:36:48,933
you know and not all of 
that's organic though.

701
00:36:48,933 --> 00:36:52,133
- Yeah, one of the things 
  that we're seeing is

702
00:36:52,133 --> 00:36:57,133
more integration of grazing 
 into non-cattle operations.

703
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:04,100
So I know there are some grain 
 farmers up Great Falls Way,

704
00:37:05,566 --> 00:37:08,466
North Havre that are 
 incorporating cattle

705
00:37:08,466 --> 00:37:11,766
for the first time this 
  year into their rotations

706
00:37:11,766 --> 00:37:14,333
for grazing and they're 
renting the cattle,

707
00:37:14,333 --> 00:37:17,300
they're not having to take care

708
00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:19,666
of those cows all 
  year round, so.

709
00:37:19,666 --> 00:37:23,733
- So are there other livestock 
 that are as popular as cattle

710
00:37:24,733 --> 00:37:26,600
to be raised organically.

711
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,066
- Well you know, I can 
  tell you the goat market,

712
00:37:31,066 --> 00:37:34,000
there's a tremendous 
 demand for goat meat

713
00:37:35,233 --> 00:37:38,800
and as far as 
 profitability goes on that,

714
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,333
I'm not sure what that would be,

715
00:37:40,333 --> 00:37:44,533
but I know there's demand and 
 it's for the smaller animals.

716
00:37:46,133 --> 00:37:50,433
Certainly you know, sheep 
  remains an important part

717
00:37:50,433 --> 00:37:55,133
of Montana agriculture 
 and as does poultry

718
00:37:55,133 --> 00:38:00,133
and hogs, I'm not 
  as familiar with,

719
00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:02,733
but I do know that we 
 have several farmers

720
00:38:02,733 --> 00:38:05,533
that include hogs in 
  their operations as well.

721
00:38:05,533 --> 00:38:09,933
- I found out last year 
that Montana is one

722
00:38:09,933 --> 00:38:13,566
of the largest goat-producing 
 states in the country

723
00:38:13,566 --> 00:38:16,466
and a lot of them are shipped 
 to the Rocky Mountain Front

724
00:38:16,466 --> 00:38:18,266
down in Denver.

725
00:38:18,266 --> 00:38:20,600
There's a few farmers 
that have really started

726
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,833
to grow a large number of 
 goats in the Billings area.

727
00:38:27,666 --> 00:38:32,666
Plain from Highwood, this 
  person used to hear a lot

728
00:38:33,533 --> 00:38:35,933
about urea volatilization,

729
00:38:37,066 --> 00:38:39,300
but they haven't 
 heard much about it.

730
00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:40,966
Is it still an issue now?

731
00:38:42,366 --> 00:38:44,400
- Yeah, it's the process,

732
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,033
urea volatilization means 
  when you apply urea,

733
00:38:47,033 --> 00:38:50,433
a certain amount of it 
  goes up to the atmosphere.

734
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,233
The problem's still there.

735
00:38:53,233 --> 00:38:56,033
I think probably people aren't 
 hearing about it as much

736
00:38:56,033 --> 00:38:59,600
because it's probably that 
 producer from Highwood knows,

737
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,100
my colleague Rick Engel 
has really been focusing

738
00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:06,466
on soil acidification 
 which is a big deal

739
00:39:06,466 --> 00:39:09,833
in the Highwood and 
 Choteau County area

740
00:39:09,833 --> 00:39:12,233
in different pockets 
 with in Montana,

741
00:39:12,233 --> 00:39:14,533
but the process of 
 urea volatilization

742
00:39:14,533 --> 00:39:19,533
generally is, urea is 
 applied to dry ground

743
00:39:20,933 --> 00:39:23,366
and then if it doesn't rain 
 for an extended period,

744
00:39:23,366 --> 00:39:26,966
a week or two, that urea 
slowly can volatilize,

745
00:39:26,966 --> 00:39:30,733
especially if we get just 
sprinkles over that week or two.

746
00:39:30,733 --> 00:39:33,833
So the worst case 
  conditions is applying it

747
00:39:33,833 --> 00:39:35,666
well before a rainstorm.

748
00:39:35,666 --> 00:39:37,500
The best conditions 
 are applying it

749
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:40,733
right before an irrigation 
 event or a large rainstorm,

750
00:39:40,733 --> 00:39:42,933
generally a half inch or more.

751
00:39:42,933 --> 00:39:44,333
If that's not possible,

752
00:39:44,333 --> 00:39:47,233
there's products that 
 protect that urea.

753
00:39:47,233 --> 00:39:49,433
They're called urease inhibitors

754
00:39:49,433 --> 00:39:53,400
or if you can put that 
 urea under the ground.

755
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,033
So subsurface drill it,

756
00:39:56,033 --> 00:40:01,033
that can really reduce the 
  amount of volatilization.

757
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:03,133
- What about lawn fertilizers,

758
00:40:03,133 --> 00:40:04,133
are most of those 
  urea based also?

759
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,133
- They're a mix.

760
00:40:07,133 --> 00:40:09,766
So they're a mix of urea,

761
00:40:09,766 --> 00:40:13,433
sometimes your ammonium nitrate, 
sometimes ammonium sulfate.

762
00:40:13,433 --> 00:40:14,666
So they're a blend.

763
00:40:14,666 --> 00:40:18,133
They're often coated, 
which slows the release

764
00:40:18,133 --> 00:40:21,533
and slows that 
 volatilization down

765
00:40:21,533 --> 00:40:23,766
and the advantage 
 a home gardener has

766
00:40:23,766 --> 00:40:27,333
over dryland farmers in Montana 
is that they can irrigate

767
00:40:27,333 --> 00:40:29,933
after an application

768
00:40:29,933 --> 00:40:34,833
and that will really reduce 
 the amount of volatilization.

769
00:40:34,833 --> 00:40:38,033
- Okay and while I 
 have you up, a caller

770
00:40:38,033 --> 00:40:40,500
from Bozeman collects deerskat

771
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:43,533
and uses it as 
  fertilizer in his garden.

772
00:40:43,533 --> 00:40:45,666
I don't think we can answer 
 the rest of this question,

773
00:40:45,666 --> 00:40:47,000
but should he be concerned

774
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,566
about chronic waste and 
disease transmission

775
00:40:49,566 --> 00:40:51,066
into his vegetables.

776
00:40:51,066 --> 00:40:54,600
I'd say probably not, but 
  no expert in that area.

777
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,533
- Yeah, I'm not a CWD expert,

778
00:40:56,533 --> 00:41:01,000
but I think it's a good, 
  probably a good fertilizer

779
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,333
and to follow up on 
 a question Jamie had

780
00:41:03,333 --> 00:41:06,000
about transitioning from 
conventional to organic,

781
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,433
she listed a bunch 
 of great resources.

782
00:41:08,433 --> 00:41:12,000
MSU extension as a mod 
 guide with that title,

783
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,900
transitioning from 
conventional to organic

784
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:18,100
that really focuses 
 on the agronomics,

785
00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:20,866
weed control and fertilization.

786
00:41:20,866 --> 00:41:24,200
So another resource 
 for organic farmers.

787
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,566
- Should that grower be worried

788
00:41:25,566 --> 00:41:27,800
about weed seeds in the deer?

789
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,500
- That's a possibility.

790
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:31,100
I'm sure they do pass through.

791
00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:33,333
In fact that's what 
 happened in my yard

792
00:41:33,333 --> 00:41:35,100
because I got a lot of weeds

793
00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:36,600
and a lot of deer.

794
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:41,566
So anyway Great Falls caller 
 Jamie, would like to know

795
00:41:42,733 --> 00:41:46,333
how to get a hold of a 
certifying organic agent

796
00:41:46,333 --> 00:41:49,000
to obtain organic certification.

797
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,266
What's the process?

798
00:41:52,633 --> 00:41:55,200
- I would talk to 
 Georgana Webster first

799
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,166
at our Montana Department of AG.

800
00:41:59,166 --> 00:42:02,000
She's the head of our 
 organic program there

801
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,400
and I'm not sure 
  if they're talking

802
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,266
about certifier or inspector, 
 is that the question?

803
00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:09,233
- I don't think it's inspector.

804
00:42:09,233 --> 00:42:11,833
I think they would 
 like to know, yeah.

805
00:42:11,833 --> 00:42:14,100
- Yeah, Georgana Webster 
at the at the state.

806
00:42:22,633 --> 00:42:26,033
- Okay, Clain I think I'll 
throw this back to you or Mary.

807
00:42:26,033 --> 00:42:29,166
From Bozeman, this person 
  sees a lot of irrigation

808
00:42:29,166 --> 00:42:33,266
currently happening on fallow 
 ground harvested fields.

809
00:42:33,266 --> 00:42:34,333
Why is this?

810
00:42:36,166 --> 00:42:37,266
Water's available.

811
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:40,166
- Yeah, they're probably 
  trying to get the weeds up

812
00:42:40,166 --> 00:42:44,066
to kill them or get the alfalfa 
to get established this fall

813
00:42:44,066 --> 00:42:46,466
or winter weed too 
  has been going in.

814
00:42:46,466 --> 00:42:47,766
- I agree entirely.

815
00:42:49,700 --> 00:42:53,466
Jane, this person has 
 a lot of dandelions

816
00:42:53,466 --> 00:42:55,200
and this is not the only person

817
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,200
that has a lot of 
  them this year.

818
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,600
Should they spray 
 now or in the spring?

819
00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:04,866
- Oh gosh, do they have time now

820
00:43:04,866 --> 00:43:07,200
or are they going to have 
 time in the spring or both.

821
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:08,800
- [Mary] Or both.

822
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,733
- [Jack] Probably both.

823
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:18,033
- I think it kind of 
 depends where you are living

824
00:43:18,033 --> 00:43:22,333
and what the next week or 
  two of weather hands us.

825
00:43:22,333 --> 00:43:26,566
You know it's been fairly 
 dry and it's been fairly warm

826
00:43:26,566 --> 00:43:31,033
and those conditions 
aren't the greatest for

827
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:34,300
probably for herbicide 
 applications.

828
00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:35,766
I think that they wondered

829
00:43:35,766 --> 00:43:39,500
if they should try to control 
 them or spray them now.

830
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:44,033
I think they'd be better 
  off spraying in the spring

831
00:43:44,033 --> 00:43:46,733
and also in spring I think,

832
00:43:46,733 --> 00:43:49,666
like right now there's 
 some dandelions

833
00:43:49,666 --> 00:43:51,733
that have emerged and you know,

834
00:43:51,733 --> 00:43:54,500
they're doing their thing, 
  but I think by spring,

835
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:58,166
they'll be even more 
 dandelions that have emerged

836
00:43:58,166 --> 00:43:59,766
and if you're going 
 to use a herbicide

837
00:43:59,766 --> 00:44:01,666
to try to control 
  those you know,

838
00:44:01,666 --> 00:44:04,000
you'll be able to get 
 both fall emerging

839
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,533
and spring emerging 
  dandelions in the spring.

840
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,333
- I have an opinion on that

841
00:44:10,333 --> 00:44:13,133
because I always have 
 lots of dandelions.

842
00:44:13,133 --> 00:44:17,300
I do it in the fall and the 
 spring to try to kill it.

843
00:44:17,300 --> 00:44:18,533
- Yeah, or fall and spring.

844
00:44:18,533 --> 00:44:20,800
- Yeah and that 
  works pretty well.

845
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,833
I have noticed this year Jane,

846
00:44:22,833 --> 00:44:26,300
there are a lot of dandelions 
 which I didn't have,

847
00:44:27,300 --> 00:44:28,733
did not have in the spring

848
00:44:28,733 --> 00:44:29,833
and I live kind 
  of in the country

849
00:44:29,833 --> 00:44:31,700
and there's dandelions all over.

850
00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:33,200
It's just like Canada thistle.

851
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,900
The seed has spread long 
distances in the wind currents.

852
00:44:38,066 --> 00:44:40,233
- You know one thing 
I've noticed this fall,

853
00:44:40,233 --> 00:44:42,533
I don't irrigate 
  my lawn very much.

854
00:44:42,533 --> 00:44:45,633
I just irrigate it enough 
  to try to keep it alive,

855
00:44:45,633 --> 00:44:50,333
but it seems like you know, 
 it's been exceptionally dry

856
00:44:50,333 --> 00:44:53,200
and it seems like you 
 know the grass is,

857
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,100
it's struggling to stay green,

858
00:44:55,100 --> 00:44:57,000
but the dandelions 
  are very green.

859
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,866
So I think part 
  of it too might be

860
00:44:58,866 --> 00:45:03,033
that the dandelions are 
 really noticeable this fall.

861
00:45:03,033 --> 00:45:06,166
- That they are, thank you.

862
00:45:06,166 --> 00:45:10,133
From Bozeman, this person 
  uses a product called

863
00:45:10,133 --> 00:45:14,166
natural horticultural 
 vinegar on bindweed.

864
00:45:14,166 --> 00:45:15,933
He says it works for him.

865
00:45:15,933 --> 00:45:20,200
Is this organic and will high 
 acidic products like this one

866
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,600
work on similar weeds?

867
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,100
Open it up to whoever 
wants to talk about it.

868
00:45:26,266 --> 00:45:29,000
- Yeah well, I can 
 take a stab at that.

869
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,800
So vinegar or acetic acid,

870
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,833
it is a an organic 
  natural herbicide.

871
00:45:34,833 --> 00:45:39,633
It acts, it's a 
  contact herbicide.

872
00:45:39,633 --> 00:45:42,733
So it will kill the vegetation

873
00:45:42,733 --> 00:45:44,266
that it comes in contact with,

874
00:45:44,266 --> 00:45:47,666
but it won't necessarily 
be translocated

875
00:45:47,666 --> 00:45:51,500
or moved around in the 
plant's vascular system

876
00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:53,433
or move down into the root.

877
00:45:53,433 --> 00:45:55,566
So it is effective.

878
00:45:55,566 --> 00:45:58,766
You have to make repeated 
  applications, however.

879
00:45:58,766 --> 00:46:02,033
So thinking back to the 
 question we had from Whitefish

880
00:46:02,033 --> 00:46:05,033
and the you know, the 
 gardeners that wanted

881
00:46:05,033 --> 00:46:08,100
to control bindweed organically,

882
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:11,400
you could use an 
application of something

883
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,966
like this product that 
the viewer's mentioning,

884
00:46:13,966 --> 00:46:15,900
something that's vinegar based,

885
00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:18,800
but you will have to make 
  repeated applications

886
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,133
because it will kill what 
  it comes in contact with,

887
00:46:22,133 --> 00:46:25,233
but then because it's 
 a perennial species,

888
00:46:25,233 --> 00:46:29,066
it will grow leaves 
 again and re-sprout.

889
00:46:29,066 --> 00:46:30,933
- Okay, thank you.

890
00:46:30,933 --> 00:46:34,600
Question for Clain and Jamie

891
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,266
and whoever wants to address it.

892
00:46:37,533 --> 00:46:40,066
What kind of organic 
 fertilizers work

893
00:46:40,066 --> 00:46:41,833
and what can they 
  use in their lawn

894
00:46:41,833 --> 00:46:43,466
as an organic fertilizer?

895
00:46:45,033 --> 00:46:46,633
I'll jump in here.

896
00:46:46,633 --> 00:46:50,766
I do not know what 
 it is, but my family

897
00:46:50,766 --> 00:46:55,400
and I have gone to certified 
 organic lawn treatments

898
00:46:55,400 --> 00:47:00,433
and we were stunned at 
  what a difference it made,

899
00:47:01,966 --> 00:47:04,733
not only is the grass softer,

900
00:47:04,733 --> 00:47:08,666
but we've also noticed a 
reduced amount of pests

901
00:47:08,666 --> 00:47:09,900
on our fruit trees.

902
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,566
Just really 
dramatically different,

903
00:47:13,566 --> 00:47:16,433
so Clain can answer more

904
00:47:16,433 --> 00:47:19,666
about what the 
 composition might be.

905
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,400
- Yeah, yeah the main ones are,

906
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,966
there's so many out 
  there, but they're blends

907
00:47:26,966 --> 00:47:31,666
of different products from 
 compost teas to blood meals,

908
00:47:31,666 --> 00:47:36,700
bone meals and the 
  effectiveness is

909
00:47:37,566 --> 00:47:39,100
probably unfortunately gonna be

910
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:42,100
a little bit trial and error 
 unless you can find somebody

911
00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:45,800
who's done some research on them

912
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,766
and probably the rates are a 
 little bit trial and error.

913
00:47:48,766 --> 00:47:50,966
So there's a lot of products.

914
00:47:50,966 --> 00:47:55,133
The one thing that I would 
 probably do a little math on

915
00:47:55,133 --> 00:47:56,533
and I can help you 
  with the math is

916
00:47:56,533 --> 00:47:58,733
how much nutrient is 
 actually going down

917
00:47:58,733 --> 00:48:02,300
'cause sometimes the 
products are recommended

918
00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:05,333
at fairly low rates and 
  don't have much nutrients

919
00:48:05,333 --> 00:48:07,166
and in that case, you 
 might not see much

920
00:48:07,166 --> 00:48:08,833
of a benefit to your lawn.

921
00:48:08,833 --> 00:48:11,033
So really, really 
 look and you can use

922
00:48:11,033 --> 00:48:15,633
some of our mock guides even 
 written for conventional lawns

923
00:48:15,633 --> 00:48:18,700
to see about how much 
 nutrients lawns need

924
00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:21,766
and then just make sure that 
 that your lawn is getting that

925
00:48:21,766 --> 00:48:23,066
with the organic product.

926
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:27,166
- And I would say in our case 
 we use a commercial service.

927
00:48:27,166 --> 00:48:29,966
So I'm assuming that you know,

928
00:48:29,966 --> 00:48:32,600
they're experienced 
with lawns in our area.

929
00:48:33,766 --> 00:48:35,733
- All right, thank you.

930
00:48:35,733 --> 00:48:38,133
Got several more questions 
  I'd like to get to.

931
00:48:38,133 --> 00:48:39,400
One from Mary here.

932
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:42,200
They would like to know

933
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,833
what the winter crop 
 this fall looks like.

934
00:48:45,833 --> 00:48:47,933
Has there been very 
 much of it seeded yet?

935
00:48:47,933 --> 00:48:49,433
It's been fairly dry.

936
00:48:49,433 --> 00:48:51,433
- It's been pretty dry, but 
 quite a few people have gotten

937
00:48:51,433 --> 00:48:53,000
in the ground too.

938
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,300
So I think it looks 
pretty good for winter.

939
00:48:54,300 --> 00:48:55,733
We let better.

940
00:48:55,733 --> 00:48:56,733
- Yeah, that's true.

941
00:48:57,933 --> 00:49:00,200
From Powler, Jamie.

942
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,633
This person has 
considered switching to 
organic agriculture,

943
00:49:04,633 --> 00:49:08,400
but is worried about 
 the market places.

944
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,833
Are there contracts 
 available for organic crops?

945
00:49:15,133 --> 00:49:17,866
- Yeah, there are 
 contracts available.

946
00:49:17,866 --> 00:49:21,266
I would assume we're talking 
 dry land grain, Powler,

947
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:25,233
then yeah, there are contracts.

948
00:49:25,233 --> 00:49:29,833
You know, if you look on 
the back of select boxes

949
00:49:29,833 --> 00:49:32,266
of Annie's Mac and Cheese,

950
00:49:32,266 --> 00:49:36,833
you will see some of our 
Montana organic farmers featured

951
00:49:36,833 --> 00:49:40,000
on those boxes and 
  they had contracts

952
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,800
to grow the grain and the 
  pulses for that product.

953
00:49:45,666 --> 00:49:47,033
- So I'm gonna ask you Jamie

954
00:49:47,033 --> 00:49:49,066
because I know a fair 
 number of growers

955
00:49:49,066 --> 00:49:51,733
I've worked with through the 
 years that have attempted

956
00:49:51,733 --> 00:49:55,400
to go organically and they 
 go maybe five or six years.

957
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,933
At that point, weeds 
 just pretty much

958
00:49:58,933 --> 00:50:01,266
take over the crop that 
they're trying to grow,

959
00:50:01,266 --> 00:50:05,466
not all of them, but 
 if they got out back

960
00:50:05,466 --> 00:50:08,833
into production agriculture, 
 normal agriculture,

961
00:50:08,833 --> 00:50:10,066
how many years would it be

962
00:50:10,066 --> 00:50:13,766
before they could 
 go back organically?

963
00:50:13,766 --> 00:50:17,200
I mean in other 
 words, the period time

964
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,133
that you don't use 
  any pesticides.

965
00:50:20,133 --> 00:50:23,933
- Three years, yeah if 
they were in production

966
00:50:23,933 --> 00:50:25,900
and they use chemical 
 then it's three years.

967
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:30,033
CRP can actually go in 
 directly with a year

968
00:50:31,466 --> 00:50:33,700
being able to prove that it 
 hadn't had chemical on it.

969
00:50:34,666 --> 00:50:35,700
- Okay thank you.

970
00:50:37,366 --> 00:50:40,366
Clain, this person has 
 the new sodded field.

971
00:50:40,366 --> 00:50:41,766
They would like to know whether

972
00:50:41,766 --> 00:50:44,033
or not they should 
 fertilize it this fall

973
00:50:44,033 --> 00:50:46,966
and continue to water 
 it into the fall?

974
00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:52,266
- So by new sodded field 
or new sodded lawn?

975
00:50:52,266 --> 00:50:54,466
- [Jack] Newly sodded lawn, yes.

976
00:50:54,466 --> 00:50:57,466
- Oh okay, and should 
 they fertilize it?

977
00:50:57,466 --> 00:50:59,366
- [Jack] Yes. 
  - Is the question.

978
00:51:00,533 --> 00:51:02,366
You know a lot of 
 times sodded farms do

979
00:51:02,366 --> 00:51:05,333
a very good 
 aggressive job I think

980
00:51:05,333 --> 00:51:06,833
with their fertilization.

981
00:51:06,833 --> 00:51:09,866
So there might be 
 fertilizer right there

982
00:51:09,866 --> 00:51:11,500
in that root zone.

983
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:16,000
They might not need very 
much to get that crop

984
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,033
or that grass to spring.

985
00:51:18,033 --> 00:51:22,800
I think the more important thing 
with new sod is ample water

986
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,466
and I would probably lean 
  towards not fertilizing,

987
00:51:26,466 --> 00:51:29,233
but open to your 
  opinion too Jack.

988
00:51:29,233 --> 00:51:32,033
- Okay, I agree, I 
 think you're right.

989
00:51:34,266 --> 00:51:36,800
Mary from Helena, this 
 person has a seven

990
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,866
to eight-year-old juniper 
  in a grove of junipers.

991
00:51:40,866 --> 00:51:43,533
They are about 20, 25 feet high.

992
00:51:43,533 --> 00:51:45,466
One juniper has suddenly

993
00:51:45,466 --> 00:51:48,066
in about two weeks 
  dried up and died.

994
00:51:48,066 --> 00:51:50,100
Any idea what might 
 be causing this

995
00:51:50,100 --> 00:51:51,500
and in your opinion,

996
00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:53,733
are the other neighboring 
  junipers at risk?

997
00:51:53,733 --> 00:51:55,066
- Oh that's a tough one.

998
00:51:55,066 --> 00:51:56,566
We're gonna need some 
 more information.

999
00:51:56,566 --> 00:51:57,800
It could have been a trauma,

1000
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,100
it could have been 
 a lot of things, so.

1001
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:03,800
- Root girdling will do that 
 for a short period of time,

1002
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:08,700
but Clain, interesting 
  question here from Haver.

1003
00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:12,833
Are soils and organic 
  systems healthier compared

1004
00:52:12,833 --> 00:52:14,500
to conventional systems?

1005
00:52:16,533 --> 00:52:19,266
- Oh yeah, that's a 
 really hard question.

1006
00:52:19,266 --> 00:52:23,933
There are a number of studies 
 that have compared organic

1007
00:52:23,933 --> 00:52:25,600
to conventional, depends partly

1008
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,933
what you what you analyze for.

1009
00:52:28,933 --> 00:52:32,100
One of the things that I 
think is super important

1010
00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:34,233
to analyze when you were 
  talking about soil health

1011
00:52:34,233 --> 00:52:38,400
is soil organic 
 matter and at least

1012
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:43,300
based on a few studies 
we've done here at MSU,

1013
00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:46,366
we sometimes, we often 
  don't see big differences

1014
00:52:46,366 --> 00:52:49,233
in organic matter 
 across a fence line.

1015
00:52:50,633 --> 00:52:53,133
The advantage that the 
  conventional farmer has is

1016
00:52:53,133 --> 00:52:55,600
that he or she is not tilling

1017
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,366
and we know that helps 
 build organic matter.

1018
00:52:58,366 --> 00:53:01,400
Advantage the 
 organic farmer has is

1019
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,166
they often add something 
like a cover crop,

1020
00:53:04,166 --> 00:53:06,966
sometimes add manure 
 and so I think that's

1021
00:53:06,966 --> 00:53:10,033
why the two kind of 
 balance each other out

1022
00:53:10,033 --> 00:53:13,633
and there's not big differences 
in soil organic matter,

1023
00:53:13,633 --> 00:53:16,566
but you'd have to look at 
 all the different varieties

1024
00:53:16,566 --> 00:53:19,066
of soil health parameters 
  from biological,

1025
00:53:19,066 --> 00:53:22,133
chemical and physical and again,

1026
00:53:22,133 --> 00:53:25,100
there's trade-offs 
 between organic tilled

1027
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:29,066
that has some advantages 
from the organic side,

1028
00:53:29,066 --> 00:53:32,000
crop rotation side and 
then there's advantages

1029
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,300
to the no-till side.

1030
00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:35,800
So a very difficult 
 question to answer.

1031
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,333
- I agree with you entirely.

1032
00:53:40,633 --> 00:53:45,333
Jamie, this person 
  has a small garden

1033
00:53:45,333 --> 00:53:50,333
and he's been treating 
 it organically for 
 about five years.

1034
00:53:51,433 --> 00:53:54,300
He's somewhat interested 
in joining the MOA

1035
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,866
as we call an organization.

1036
00:53:57,866 --> 00:53:59,966
How do they go about doing that?

1037
00:53:59,966 --> 00:54:02,866
- Oh my goodness, well 
  you can visit our website

1038
00:54:02,866 --> 00:54:06,700
and you can actually get 
your membership online

1039
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:08,500
and we have very 
affordable memberships,

1040
00:54:08,500 --> 00:54:13,500
or you can contact me too 
 and I can directly send a pdf

1041
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:15,966
that if they wanna print off

1042
00:54:15,966 --> 00:54:19,300
and not do that online, yeah.

1043
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,833
Our website or contact me,

1044
00:54:22,833 --> 00:54:25,266
and I'm available 
  from that website.

1045
00:54:25,266 --> 00:54:26,666
- Yeah roughly how many members

1046
00:54:26,666 --> 00:54:29,666
does the organization 
 currently have?

1047
00:54:29,666 --> 00:54:33,066
- We have over 200 
  members and again,

1048
00:54:33,066 --> 00:54:37,233
they are range from 
 consumers to handlers

1049
00:54:37,233 --> 00:54:40,166
to producers and 
 again, the wide range.

1050
00:54:40,166 --> 00:54:45,100
We have buyers, so yeah,

1051
00:54:45,100 --> 00:54:48,133
and it's a very warm 
 and welcoming group.

1052
00:54:48,133 --> 00:54:53,133
Our researchers and I 
 think our cell folks

1053
00:54:53,866 --> 00:54:56,100
can agree with that.

1054
00:54:56,100 --> 00:55:01,100
- Okay thank you, Jane for you.

1055
00:55:02,300 --> 00:55:04,866
A Glendive caller has 
 some dandelion advice.

1056
00:55:04,866 --> 00:55:08,933
She spreads pelletized 
lawn lime on the plants

1057
00:55:08,933 --> 00:55:11,400
and says it works 
 great, your opinion.

1058
00:55:13,766 --> 00:55:16,333
- I have never heard of 
that, but you know what?

1059
00:55:16,333 --> 00:55:18,600
Her experience is valuable.

1060
00:55:20,133 --> 00:55:21,566
- I've not heard of it either,

1061
00:55:21,566 --> 00:55:26,566
but a caller from Lewistown 
 would like to know

1062
00:55:28,166 --> 00:55:33,166
which of the organic 
  manure animal fertilizers

1063
00:55:34,666 --> 00:55:35,866
is highest in nitrogen?

1064
00:55:35,866 --> 00:55:38,166
So Clain, I suspect 
 that's yours.

1065
00:55:39,500 --> 00:55:43,433
- Chicken manure would 
be would be the highest.

1066
00:55:43,433 --> 00:55:45,833
Horse manure would be the lowest

1067
00:55:45,833 --> 00:55:50,666
and then probably sheep and 
goat are second, third highest.

1068
00:55:50,666 --> 00:55:53,700
I would guess deer is 
 about fourth in there.

1069
00:55:53,700 --> 00:55:55,833
A lot of those numbers 
 you can find online,

1070
00:55:55,833 --> 00:55:59,833
but chicken manure nitrogen 
 wise is quite a bit higher

1071
00:55:59,833 --> 00:56:01,133
than the others.

1072
00:56:01,133 --> 00:56:04,466
- You can burn gardens 
 with chicken manure,

1073
00:56:04,466 --> 00:56:05,666
no doubt about that.

1074
00:56:05,666 --> 00:56:07,700
- Compost it first if you can.

1075
00:56:07,700 --> 00:56:08,866
- Yeah, okay.

1076
00:56:11,833 --> 00:56:14,933
We're getting down on time 
 Jane, but here's a quick one.

1077
00:56:14,933 --> 00:56:18,833
Is Horry alyssum obnoxious weed 
and the best control method.

1078
00:56:19,933 --> 00:56:22,000
- Yes it is a 
 state noxious weed.

1079
00:56:23,300 --> 00:56:25,233
There's a variety of herbicides,

1080
00:56:25,233 --> 00:56:28,333
you can hand pull, you can mow.

1081
00:56:28,333 --> 00:56:31,000
Keep it from going to 
 seed because that's 
 how it reproduces.

1082
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,833
It does not reproduce 
 vegetatively

1083
00:56:33,833 --> 00:56:37,066
and there's an extension 
bulletin on Corialism,

1084
00:56:37,066 --> 00:56:38,333
so check it out.

1085
00:56:38,333 --> 00:56:41,933
- It's really become a 
 rather widespread weed

1086
00:56:41,933 --> 00:56:43,733
here in the Gallatin Valley.

1087
00:56:43,733 --> 00:56:45,233
- It has, yeah.

1088
00:56:45,233 --> 00:56:49,466
- Okay, folks let me thank 
 the panel, especially Jamie.

1089
00:56:49,466 --> 00:56:52,500
Jamie had a couple 
 calls from Missoula

1090
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:53,833
saying you did a great job.

1091
00:56:53,833 --> 00:56:56,200
Thank you for joining 
 us this evening.

1092
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,933
Next week we're going to have 
 Shannon Brent from Bismarck.

1093
00:56:58,933 --> 00:57:00,633
She's executive director

1094
00:57:00,633 --> 00:57:03,300
of the Northern Pulse 
 Growers Association.

1095
00:57:03,300 --> 00:57:05,533
Should be fun, you'll 
learn a lot about peas,

1096
00:57:05,533 --> 00:57:07,666
lentils, what to do with 
them, how we grow them.

1097
00:57:07,666 --> 00:57:09,466
So forth and so on.

1098
00:57:09,466 --> 00:57:11,633
Again, thank everybody 
 for watching.

1099
00:57:12,833 --> 00:57:15,266
Mary thanks for being 
 in the studio with me.

1100
00:57:15,266 --> 00:57:17,733
Everyone, have a good 
  night, see you next week.

1101
00:57:17,733 --> 00:57:19,700
Take care, bye.

1102
00:57:19,700 --> 00:57:22,366
(country music)

1103
00:57:23,966 --> 00:57:26,200
- [Narrator] For more 
  information and resources,

1104
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:31,200
visit montanapbs.org/AGlive.

1105
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,133
(country music)

1106
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:02,833
Montana AG Live is made possible

1107
00:58:02,833 --> 00:58:06,400
by the Montana Department 
  of Agriculture,

1108
00:58:07,366 --> 00:58:10,333
The MSU Extension Service,

1109
00:58:10,333 --> 00:58:12,466
The MSU AG Experiment Stations

1110
00:58:12,466 --> 00:58:14,866
of the College of Agriculture,

1111
00:58:14,866 --> 00:58:17,766
The Montana Wheat 
 and Barley Committee,

1112
00:58:17,766 --> 00:58:20,033
The Montana Bankers Association,

1113
00:58:20,933 --> 00:58:23,666
Cashman Nursery and Landscaping,

1114
00:58:23,666 --> 00:58:25,800
The Gallatin Gardeners Club

1115
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,000
and The Rocky Mountain 
Certified Crop Advisor Program.

1116
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,666
(country music)