- [Narrator] Montana AG
Live is made possible
by the MontanaDepartment
of Agriculture,
the MSU Extension Service,
the MSU AG Experiment Stations
of the College of Agriculture,
The Montana Wheat
and Barley Committee,
The Montana Bankers Association,
Cashman Nursery and Landscaping,
The Gallatin Gardeners Club
and The Rocky Mountain
Certified Crop Advisor Program.
(country music)
- Good evening folks.
Welcome to another new
edition of Montana AG Live
originating tonight from
the studios at KUSM,
on the campus of
Montana State University
and also from our
homes and offices
at various locations around
the beautiful state of Montana.
I'm Jack Riesselman.
I'll be your host and
moderator tonight.
I'm a retired professor
of plant pathology.
Happy to be here, happy
to have you watching.
Above all else,
what we need is some
of your questions.
This program's success
is based on the questions
that you asked because other
people also are interested
in those questions.
Answering the phones tonight
to take these questions are
Bruce Lobel and Nancy Blake.
They will send those questions
to me via slack technology
on this little
computer in front of me
and I'll be able to relay
them to the various people
that we have on the
panel this evening.
Before we start, let
me introduce the panel.
Here in the studio with me
tonight is Mary Burrows.
Everybody knows Mary.
She's both an extension
plant pathologist
and associate director of
the AG Experiment Station.
That's a relatively
new position for her.
So welcome.
Our guest tonight
and we're really happy to
have her, Jamie Lockman.
Jamie is over in Missoula.
She is the head or
executive director
of the Montana
Organic Association.
I think it's called MOA.
- (mumbles) I think.
- Okay, well if
you have questions
about organic agriculture,
send them in tonight
because we have the expert
here and we also have
some other people
with the university
who can help answer
these questions.
Also joining us tonight on
the panel are Jane Mangold,
wave at the crowd,
and Clain Jones.
We've always had a
soil scientist on
couple times a year.
Clain has a lot of good
information for us.
Before we go any farther,
Jamie, tell us a little bit
about the Montana
Organic Association.
- Sure, well we got
our start in 2003
which was just after the
organic program came into being.
You know Montana has some
real pioneers in organic ag.
We are the number one
organic wheat producing state
in the country and we're number
two or three for lentils.
We're a trade association.
We earned that status in 2006
and our mission is to advocate
and promote organic agriculture
for the highest
good of the people,
the environment and
the state's economy.
Among the things that we do
are to have education events.
We have an annual conference,
this year we won't do that,
but we will have
some virtual events,
but our conference has
been very well received.
We do a farm tour usually,
at least one a year.
This year we did it virtually.
We have those videos available
on MOA's YouTube channel
and Montana Public Television
was actually helpful
in getting those videos done.
We're really good at networking.
There have been some
really amazing products
that have come out
of our conference
and members getting
to know each other
and communicating
with one another.
We do some policy work.
This year you know, we
haven't had the fly ends to DC
like we would in the
past, but typically
at least a couple times a
year somebody goes to DC
and advocates for organic ag
and then we also work
with some researchers
at Montana State University
and try to give them a platform
for sharing their
latest research
and we have a newsletter
and lately we've been hosting
discussions virtually via Zoom
on meat processing in Montana.
- Okay, quick question.
You say agriculture.
That also includes truck
farming, small gardeners,
people like that that
are organically based?
- We have a diverse membership.
We do have direct
market farmers.
We have some orchardists,
we have cattle ranchers,
we have some folks
who raise poultry.
There's a couple organic
vineyards in the state
and then certainly
grain and pulses.
I think one of the
important things to know
about organic agriculture,
especially when you're talking
about the eastern
side of the state
and my companions here
can speak to this better,
but you're talking about
farming in a rotation.
So you're not just monocropping
and growing wheat every year.
You're incorporating a
lot of different crops.
You know, some of
our folks have nine,
10, 11 year rotations.
- Okay thank you, we'll be back
with some questions for
Jamie, they are coming in,
meanwhile we have Jane,
our invasive wheat
specialist tonight
and I have a stack
of leftover questions
from last week and a
few new ones coming in.
First of all from Townsend,
this person has a lot of
cheatgrass in their alfalfa.
They would like to know
if they can spray it out
when the alfalfa
becomes dormant?
Your comment and if you can,
what would you suggest using?
- Yeah, that is a
strategy for dealing
with cheatgrass in alfalfa.
Now would be a good time to do
that in the fall of the year.
Cheatgrass comes up
in the fall and then,
so now would be an option
if the cheatgrass is up
and the alfalfa is dormant.
The other option would be
to do that in the spring
and typically people are
using glyphosate products
at a fairly low rate, like
four to six ounces per acre.
So that is an option.
You can target the cheatgrass
when it is actively growing,
but your alfalfa is dormant.
Typically, if you're
trying to choose
between fall or spring,
spring has worked a
little better for people
and I think one of the reasons
it does work a little better
is cheatgrass, most of
it emerges in the fall,
but you do have some seeds
that don't germinate and
emerge until the spring,
late winter, early spring.
So if you wait until spring,
you're able to control both
the fall emerging seedlings
and the spring
emerging seedlings.
So that's probably
the best option is
just a small, not small,
but a low rate application
of glyphosate when the
alfalfa is dormant.
- I mean what about,
you know given Jamie's
presence here today,
what about for
somebody who's organic
and doesn't want
to use glyphosate?
- Yeah, well you have
a couple different
options with cheatgrass.
They're a little more, they're
a little more challenging,
I would say.
You know, one of the reasons
I think people a lot of
people use herbicides
is they're pretty,
they're easy to use.
They're quick and easy to use,
but another option would
be some fall grazing
if you have the option of
grazing in your alfalfa fields.
Cheatgrass is very good forage
when it's in that
seedling stage.
So fall or spring grazing.
I think that would
probably be you know,
an option that would
control the cheatgrass
without stimulating
other weeds to grow
and of course it's
always very important
to manage that alfalfa well.
So fertilizing it at
the right time you know,
taking good care of your alfalfa
so it can be as
strong and competitive
and vigorous as possible.
- All right, thank you.
Yeah you mentioned that,
throw this out to Jamie
and you anybody else
who wants to jump in.
If you're establishing
an organic system,
are weeds the most
difficult things
that you have to contend with
in order to have a viable
crop, your opinion?
- My opinion?
I mean it's certainly
something to consider.
I think for
transitioning to organic,
you know, what most folks
have the problem with is
that your yield might go down,
but your prices are
still those lower prices,
you're not getting
those organic premiums.
So I think that is probably
one of the first barriers.
I'm not, I don't
know of any research
that's been done on that,
but that's an
interesting question.
- I do know several
organic farmers
who have left the
organic program
because they couldn't
control perennial weeds.
Primarily bindweed
and Canada thistle,
even with tillage are
sometimes really
challenging to control.
so they've left
organic, sprayed it out
and then come back into organic.
so those are challenging weeds.
- [Jack] Okay thank you.
- Yes, and I could add
Jack that a few years back,
MSU worked with your
Organic Research
and Education Advisory Council
and we surveyed organic
growers across the state
asking them about some of,
what some of their most
challenging issues were
and like Clain said,
perennial weeds,
particularly Canada thistle
and field bindweed
rose to the top.
- I agree with that entirely.
We're on organic pesticides.
Mary, there's a question here.
Are there any organic
approved fungicides
for gardens and also
they want to know
if you could use any on wheat.
- Yeah, there are a number
of approved fungicides.
The best database
that I've found,
especially for
commercial growers is
the IR-4 Biopesticide database
and the great thing about that
is that the data associated
with the use is right
there linked to the product
and you can choose by crop or
by function and your state.
Always make sure
that the product is
registered in the state
before you would apply it
and the big problem we have
with organic problem,
organic products is
that efficacy data,
we just don't have a lot.
So you can be sold
something saying
that it will do
something for you,
but even if you look at
the literature associated
with the product, you may
not find any information
on that use.
So you kind of have
to do your homework.
- It's kind of a
new industry too.
- It is, but you know,
I've got staff working
on organic options and not
only for organic growers,
but conventional growers.
I think 80% of the organically
approved pesticides are used
in conventional operations.
- That's an
interesting statistic.
Okay, thank you.
Jamie, an interesting question
came in from Missoula.
This person thinks
for the most part
that the organic agriculture
or organic products is more
about marketing
than anything else.
Would you agree to that or not?
- No, absolutely not.
Our organic producers adhere
to strict guidelines and rules.
You know, to stay organic
they're inspected every year.
The rules are established
by the National
Organic Standards Board
and Montana is very proud
to have one of our MOA members,
Nate Powell-Palm
sits on that board.
We've only had two
Montanans sit on that,
so it's a big deal.
We're very proud of him
and if your operation sells
under five thousand
dollars' worth of products,
you don't have to worry about
the certification as much,
but if you put an organic
label on a non-organic product,
you can actually be
subjected to a fine
of up to $17,000.
Organic fraud is an issue.
There is legislation to
strengthen organic inspections
and rules, but no, it's
not just a marketing tool.
- Okay thank you, back to Clain.
This question always
comes in in the fall.
When is it a good time
to fertilize your lawn?
Right now or wait?
- I would say I
would say right now
till maybe early October is
a good time to fertilize.
If you've already
fertilized quite a bit,
you might not have to, but
those people who spread it out
among three or
four applications.
Right now is a really good time.
It will help your grass
green up in the springtime.
- Okay, as long as we're on
the organic subject tonight,
are there some
organic fertilizers
that you could use on
lawns, not just gardens,
but lawns or for that
matter, fields too.
- Yeah, there's a huge
number of products out there,
probably more for the
home gardener actually
than for a large-scale
agriculture.
From rock phosphate, bone
meal for phosphorus sources,
there's blood meal, feather
meal for nitrogen sources,
there's potassium
and chloride sources.
So a whole bunch of organic
products are out there
for the home gardener.
The large scale ag, some
of those same exist,
but sometimes they become a
little more cost prohibitive
than they do for
organic gardener.
I think the biggest thing
that organic farmers
on a large acreage fight
with is nitrogen sufficiency
and so how they often
get their nitrogen is
either with green manures,
meaning growing plants,
legumes that provide
nitrogen or animal manure.
So those are the main two ways
that a lot of farmers will
get their organic nutrients.
- Okay thank you, Mary
a call from Heron.
This person has grown
sunflowers on the north side,
I assume of their
house for 40 years.
The last couple of years
they've been damping off
when they near maturity before
they bloom, what's wrong?
- It could be a disease
called white mold
that is very common in
sunflowers and other dicots
and a characteristic
symptom of that is that
where it usually infects
through the flower,
but if it affects at the
stem, it's very gray,
has a gray cast and they could
certainly give us a sample
and we can easily diagnose that.
- If you're growing
sunflowers for 40 years
in the same place,
the likelihood
of having white
mold is pretty high.
- Is pretty high.
I'm surprised they
can keep doing that
'cause the soil quality
gets really poor.
- It does, okay thank you.
From Bozeman, Jamie is
organic production increasing
in the state?
- Absolutely, yeah.
It's gone up the double
digits for years.
We have over 320 operations
now and that includes handlers
and coffee roasters and things,
but we are, Montana
is the second,
has the second highest
organic acreage in the country
right behind California.
- [Jack] That's
pretty impressive.
- That's impressive.
- Financially, is it more
profitable in general
to sell organic produce
or organic wheat
than it is just normal
production crops?
- In general, you're
gonna get a premium, yeah.
You know, certainly
with a higher supply
of organic products,
the price will go down.
I know in my grocery store,
a lot a lot of times
the organic apples say
or the organic bananas are,
the price is pretty
same as the non-organic.
So in general, yeah
there will be a premium.
- Okay, thank you.
Interesting question for
Jane from Eastern Montana.
This person has problems
with puncturevine
and I grew up around
puncturevine and
old bicycle tires
and they didn't get
along very well.
They would like to know if it
is a noxious weed in Montana
and if not, how does it
become a noxious weed?
Have at it.
- Okay yeah, so
puncturevine is not
on the state noxious weed list.
It may be on some county lists,
but I haven't seen that
list for a couple years
for the different counties
so I don't know exactly.
If the person wanted to find out
if it was on the county
list where the person lives,
they could call their
county weed district
and ask about any
county listed species.
As far as a species
becoming a state list,
becoming a state noxious weed,
that is done through the Montana
Department of Agriculture
and there is a process
where someone can petition
to have a species added
to the noxious weed list.
Actually the Department of
AG is accepting petitions
through the end of this month.
Once they have those petitions,
it is reviewed by a
group of volunteers
that look at the species,
they review the information.
They might do a
literature review
as far as what's
available research-wise,
what do we know
about this species.
They make a recommendation
to the director
of the Department of AG
and ultimately the director
of the Department of AG rules
whether or not a species gets
added to the noxious weed list
and there is a
public comment period
that is incorporated
into the process,
but if this viewer is, wants
to know if it's locally listed,
I would suggest they contact
their county weed district.
- How widespread
Jane, is puncturevine
in the state of Montana?
I have not seen much of it,
but I hope not (mumbles).
- Yeah, yeah I
haven't either Jack
and it's interesting
that this call came in
from Eastern Montana.
Usually when I get questions
about puncturevine,
it's coming from
Yellowstone county.
So the Billings area and
then maybe to the south
and the east from Billings.
I don't get many questions
and I haven't seen
it myself in counties
in the rest of the state.
- Okay thank you, I'll turn
this one to Jamie and Mary.
A caller from Helena would
like details on what research
by the Montana AG Experiment
Station is ongoing
relative to organic agriculture.
So between the two
of you, let us know.
- Well I've been in the job
for a week, so I'm an expert.
- Oh, so you should know by now.
- (laughs) We've been
doing a little bit
for fungicide seed treatments.
I know Zach Miller at western
has been doing a bunch
on weed management,
perennial weeds especially.
There's been a number
of other projects,
but there's a
whole organic acre.
Perry Miller's been doing a
lot of with sheep grazing.
What other ones are
you aware of Jamie?
- Pat Carr at Moccasin and
then Dave Sands too is doing
some really innovative
work with bio control
of Canadian thistle.
- Yeah, so quite a bit.
- Yeah, and I think
you're gonna see more.
- Yeah, there's probably
a lot we don't know about.
- Well, no that's true,
but at least there is
quite a little bit ongoing
at the current time.
- Yes.
- Yeah okay.
- Jack, I believe Tim Seifel
who I think was on last week,
he's the crop weed specialist.
He's working with Canada
thistle and bindweed
with some of the,
I think some of the people
that Mary and Jamie
have mentioned
like Pat Carr and Zach Miller.
- Okay and why have you, Jane,
here's an interesting question.
I look forward to seeing
what you have to say.
The Whitefish community garden
growers would like to know
how to control bindweed
which has started
growing in their plots.
They would like an
organic remedy, go for it.
- Yeah well, too
bad Tim isn't here
to talk about some of the
research they're doing,
but so field bindweed, if
people have watched this show
for any period of time, they
know that we always get calls
about field bindweed.
It's one of these perennial
species that creeps
as a very extensive root system.
It sounds like the
caller says it's just
maybe starting to show up
and that's a good thing
because if it's just
starting to show up,
I would encourage them to
just continue to pull it.
Every time you see
the sprouts coming
through the surface
of the soil, pull it
because if you
continue to pull it,
the plant has to rely on its
root reserves to grow back
and if you can keep
pulling the leaves off
and disturbing that root system,
you can deplete the
roots over time,
but you need to be doing that
like every time you see
the sprouts coming up
and you probably you know,
do that throughout
the growing season
and you'll probably need to
do it for a couple years.
You can't let up or back off.
You have to stay on top of it.
- If you tilt it, you
just spread it, don't you?
- Yeah that, if you're
breaking it up and yeah,
it can, the root fragments
can continue to grow.
I'm trying to think if
there'd be any other.
- Can you landscape fabric
that section of the garden
for a while and?
- Yeah, I was going to say
like some sort of
physical barrier.
Some sort of landscape
fabric, black plastic.
Even mulch you know, if you
could get some mulch down
to try to shade it out.
- Okay good answer folks.
While I have you up, this
person called in from Billings
and would like to know
is puncturevine the
same as goat heads?
- Yes it is.
- Farther south you go,
they call them goat heads.
Farther north you go, they
call them puncturevines.
That's what I've
been told anyway.
Clain, this is an
interesting question.
This person has a whole
bunch of spruce trees
about 65 of them in fact.
They're 10 to 20 feet tall,
eight to 15 years
old from Livingston.
He has been fertilizing
with 17, 17, 17.
Should he continue?
- Good question, I would
strongly recommend a soil test.
Not knowing how many pounds,
he or she's putting down,
it's really hard to know
if there's possibly too
much nutrients on there.
When I think of trees,
we don't have a tree expert on,
but I think some of you know
a little more than I do,
I think of their
needs for nitrogen
possibly not being as much
as P and K, but I don't know.
I know that over
winter survival,
phosphorus is more
important than nitrogen.
I would really strongly
recommend a soil test
before deciding what to put on.
You might find for example
one of those nutrients is low
and the other two are excessive.
In which case that fertilizer
regime should change.
- You know, I think 17, 17, 17
is an acceptable fertilizer,
but I don't think
at this time of year
I would be fertilizing because
you don't wanna promote
new growth as we
approach winter.
We could get a 15 degree night
and you could really do
some damage to those trees.
So I've often said that you
should probably stop fertilizing
if you are fertilizing around
the first week of July.
If you over fertilize,
you stimulate trees
and stimulated trees
that grow faster
than their genetically
supposed to are often damaged
by winter here in Montana.
- Yeah, and Cheryl
last week talked
about watering and tapering off,
watering now until
things are dormant.
- Okay.
- If that person
or anyone wants to
know how to soil test
or where to send a soil to,
they can go to my website by
googling Clain and then soil
and I usually come up and then
jump over to home gardening
on the left and they'll
find a whole list of labs
and some tips for soil sampling.
- Okay thanks Clain.
Interesting question
from Three Forks,
actually two of them
came from Three Forks.
Jamie, they would like to know
where to get information
about the transitioning
from regular farming
into organic farming.
How would they get information
on being successful
if they wanted to try that?
- Well they can start
with us and our website
and we can direct them
to different resources
and connect, oftentimes
with farmers in their areas
and the crops or
livestock whatever
activities they're doing
and those experienced farmers
or ranchers can
serve as a mentor.
The Montana Department
of AG organic program is
a really good resource
and they can help connect
with cost share dollars to help
with organic certification.
So to offset some of the
costs of being certified.
NCAT ATTRA headquartered
in Butte has
some really good resources.
The USDA organic program
also has some good,
basic information
about transitioning
and what you should
be thinking about.
- Okay, second question
also from Three Forks,
they're led to believe
that organic crops are
more nutritious
than conventional
crops, is that true?
- You know, there
is research on that.
It's still in the
beginning stages.
You don't really see that
sort of nutritional
research done in the US.
There is some
going on in Europe.
You know I, and looking
at the phytonutrients.
So really tiny parts.
You know, as far
as I'm concerned
part of it comes down to taste.
Like an organic apple
just tastes better
than a non-organic apple and
that's a lot healthier choice
in a lot of ways.
So I'm really excited to
know about the research
that will be going looking
at different items.
Our keynote speaker this year
for our virtual conference
is Fred Provenza
and he is doing research that
is looking at soil health,
connecting that to
livestock health
and connecting that
to human health.
- Okay thank you.
Mary, this question
is from Manhattan.
They have a lot of what they
believe are fungal leaf spots
on their aspen.
Is there any control.
I know it's too late this year,
but looking forward to
next year and onward,
what would you suggest?
- Yeah, good thing about
the fungal leaf spots is
unless your trees defoliated
several years in a row
very early, they're not
gonna really harm the tree,
but you can get rid of
all that leaf litter,
remove it from the area so
it can't re-infect the tree
and that would go
quite a long ways
and obviously don't like
spray or treat with water.
- You know, it normally shows
up late enough in the year
that it doesn't do much
damage, but you're right,
cleaning up and I hate that work
because that's a lot of work.
- It is a lot of work,
but those leaf blowers,
you know, they do a good job.
- That helps, but
the real key is
you cut your lawn real
short and let the wind blow
and all those leaves--
- Goes to your neighbors.
- It goes to your neighbors
and that works, I
can verify that.
I have you up Mary,
Powdery mildew on squash
was bad this year,
what would you suggest?
- You know, I always have it bad
late in the year particularly
and I think it's because I
overhead irrigate quite a bit
and the varieties I use
are very susceptible
to the disease.
It's one of those diseases
that you can do sanitation,
you'll throw that trash away,
don't compost it and
reintroduce it into your garden,
but it's around all the time.
So if you can use
probably P is the signal
in the seed catalog for
powdery mildew or PM,
you can check the key.
Use varieties that
have some resistance
and then don't overhead
irrigate like I do.
- (laughs) That works.
Jane, a couple of things here.
First of all, your
sister says hi from Iowa
and you have a fan club all
over the country, it's amazing.
New York, Iowa.
- I have a big family.
- Okay, anyway they
said to say hi,
but while I have you up,
this person from
Hamilton has prickly pear
and they would like
to get rid of them,
preferably an organic method.
- Oh prickly pear is
really hard to deal with,
whether it's organic
or conventional.
It's a challenging
species to try to control.
You can mechanically control it,
but that's a little,
that's a little tenuous because
when you break it apart,
it can re-root as well.
So if you're looking at
mechanical disturbance,
it would need to
be pretty intense
and of course when you
disturb the soil like that,
you also open yourself up
for other weeds to increase
because weeds love disturbance
and they do really
well with disturbance.
I'd have to think about
that a little bit more,
but I would encourage the
viewer to think about you know,
why they wanna get
rid of prickly pear.
It is a native species.
It usually tends to grow
in certain types of soils.
You know, coarse soils
that are pretty dry.
So if you get rid
of the prickly pear,
you need to think about
well, it's not growing there
and occupying that soil,
what else might grow there?
And the what else could
potentially be worse
than the prickly pear.
So I think you know,
thinking about why you
wanna get rid of it,
what you would rather
have growing there is
an important
consideration to make.
That person can
always give me a call
if they wanna talk more about it
and maybe if we put
our two heads together,
we can come up with
some solutions.
- Okay if you're not
going to do it organically
with things like
roundup or glyphosate,
would that take
care of prickly pear
if you dabbed it on them?
- Well I don't think glyphosate
will work on prickly pear,
but I'm not sure.
When I've looked at some of
the weed management guidebooks
over the years when
people have called me
asking about prickly pear,
if I remember correctly,
one of the options is picloram
which picloram is a
pretty strong herbicide
that has a lot of
residual in the soil
and it also has some
non-target impacts
to desired vegetation.
So again, you're looking at
a pretty intense management
action to control something
that might be growing there
because it's the habitat
that's conducive
to prickly pear.
So there's a lot of
considerations on this one.
All right, we have a lot of
questions tonight about insects.
We don't have a
entomologist on the panel,
we will have them in the future.
So those questions will be saved
and in the future, we'll
get to a lot of those.
Mary, Posen Coller
has a small vineyard.
Is Captan fungicide and organic?
- No.
- No, okay.
This is good,
caller from Bozeman.
Is organic cattle rats ranching
a viable option in Montana?
Have at it Jamie.
- Oh yeah, with COVID,
our organic grass-fed cattle
ranchers have been very busy.
They already kind
of operate outside,
well they do operate
outside the non-organic
cattle markets
and so yes, organic
grass-fed cattle ranching
is viable and robust.
- Okay, I know of
a lot of people
that have switched
to grass-fed beef,
you know and not all of
that's organic though.
- Yeah, one of the things
that we're seeing is
more integration of grazing
into non-cattle operations.
So I know there are some grain
farmers up Great Falls Way,
North Havre that are
incorporating cattle
for the first time this
year into their rotations
for grazing and they're
renting the cattle,
they're not having to take care
of those cows all
year round, so.
- So are there other livestock
that are as popular as cattle
to be raised organically.
- Well you know, I can
tell you the goat market,
there's a tremendous
demand for goat meat
and as far as
profitability goes on that,
I'm not sure what that would be,
but I know there's demand and
it's for the smaller animals.
Certainly you know, sheep
remains an important part
of Montana agriculture
and as does poultry
and hogs, I'm not
as familiar with,
but I do know that we
have several farmers
that include hogs in
their operations as well.
- I found out last year
that Montana is one
of the largest goat-producing
states in the country
and a lot of them are shipped
to the Rocky Mountain Front
down in Denver.
There's a few farmers
that have really started
to grow a large number of
goats in the Billings area.
Plain from Highwood, this
person used to hear a lot
about urea volatilization,
but they haven't
heard much about it.
Is it still an issue now?
- Yeah, it's the process,
urea volatilization means
when you apply urea,
a certain amount of it
goes up to the atmosphere.
The problem's still there.
I think probably people aren't
hearing about it as much
because it's probably that
producer from Highwood knows,
my colleague Rick Engel
has really been focusing
on soil acidification
which is a big deal
in the Highwood and
Choteau County area
in different pockets
with in Montana,
but the process of
urea volatilization
generally is, urea is
applied to dry ground
and then if it doesn't rain
for an extended period,
a week or two, that urea
slowly can volatilize,
especially if we get just
sprinkles over that week or two.
So the worst case
conditions is applying it
well before a rainstorm.
The best conditions
are applying it
right before an irrigation
event or a large rainstorm,
generally a half inch or more.
If that's not possible,
there's products that
protect that urea.
They're called urease inhibitors
or if you can put that
urea under the ground.
So subsurface drill it,
that can really reduce the
amount of volatilization.
- What about lawn fertilizers,
are most of those
urea based also?
- They're a mix.
So they're a mix of urea,
sometimes your ammonium nitrate,
sometimes ammonium sulfate.
So they're a blend.
They're often coated,
which slows the release
and slows that
volatilization down
and the advantage
a home gardener has
over dryland farmers in Montana
is that they can irrigate
after an application
and that will really reduce
the amount of volatilization.
- Okay and while I
have you up, a caller
from Bozeman collects deerskat
and uses it as
fertilizer in his garden.
I don't think we can answer
the rest of this question,
but should he be concerned
about chronic waste and
disease transmission
into his vegetables.
I'd say probably not, but
no expert in that area.
- Yeah, I'm not a CWD expert,
but I think it's a good,
probably a good fertilizer
and to follow up on
a question Jamie had
about transitioning from
conventional to organic,
she listed a bunch
of great resources.
MSU extension as a mod
guide with that title,
transitioning from
conventional to organic
that really focuses
on the agronomics,
weed control and fertilization.
So another resource
for organic farmers.
- Should that grower be worried
about weed seeds in the deer?
- That's a possibility.
I'm sure they do pass through.
In fact that's what
happened in my yard
because I got a lot of weeds
and a lot of deer.
So anyway Great Falls caller
Jamie, would like to know
how to get a hold of a
certifying organic agent
to obtain organic certification.
What's the process?
- I would talk to
Georgana Webster first
at our Montana Department of AG.
She's the head of our
organic program there
and I'm not sure
if they're talking
about certifier or inspector,
is that the question?
- I don't think it's inspector.
I think they would
like to know, yeah.
- Yeah, Georgana Webster
at the at the state.
- Okay, Clain I think I'll
throw this back to you or Mary.
From Bozeman, this person
sees a lot of irrigation
currently happening on fallow
ground harvested fields.
Why is this?
Water's available.
- Yeah, they're probably
trying to get the weeds up
to kill them or get the alfalfa
to get established this fall
or winter weed too
has been going in.
- I agree entirely.
Jane, this person has
a lot of dandelions
and this is not the only person
that has a lot of
them this year.
Should they spray
now or in the spring?
- Oh gosh, do they have time now
or are they going to have
time in the spring or both.
- [Mary] Or both.
- [Jack] Probably both.
- I think it kind of
depends where you are living
and what the next week or
two of weather hands us.
You know it's been fairly
dry and it's been fairly warm
and those conditions
aren't the greatest for
probably for herbicide
applications.
I think that they wondered
if they should try to control
them or spray them now.
I think they'd be better
off spraying in the spring
and also in spring I think,
like right now there's
some dandelions
that have emerged and you know,
they're doing their thing,
but I think by spring,
they'll be even more
dandelions that have emerged
and if you're going
to use a herbicide
to try to control
those you know,
you'll be able to get
both fall emerging
and spring emerging
dandelions in the spring.
- I have an opinion on that
because I always have
lots of dandelions.
I do it in the fall and the
spring to try to kill it.
- Yeah, or fall and spring.
- Yeah and that
works pretty well.
I have noticed this year Jane,
there are a lot of dandelions
which I didn't have,
did not have in the spring
and I live kind
of in the country
and there's dandelions all over.
It's just like Canada thistle.
The seed has spread long
distances in the wind currents.
- You know one thing
I've noticed this fall,
I don't irrigate
my lawn very much.
I just irrigate it enough
to try to keep it alive,
but it seems like you know,
it's been exceptionally dry
and it seems like you
know the grass is,
it's struggling to stay green,
but the dandelions
are very green.
So I think part
of it too might be
that the dandelions are
really noticeable this fall.
- That they are, thank you.
From Bozeman, this person
uses a product called
natural horticultural
vinegar on bindweed.
He says it works for him.
Is this organic and will high
acidic products like this one
work on similar weeds?
Open it up to whoever
wants to talk about it.
- Yeah well, I can
take a stab at that.
So vinegar or acetic acid,
it is a an organic
natural herbicide.
It acts, it's a
contact herbicide.
So it will kill the vegetation
that it comes in contact with,
but it won't necessarily
be translocated
or moved around in the
plant's vascular system
or move down into the root.
So it is effective.
You have to make repeated
applications, however.
So thinking back to the
question we had from Whitefish
and the you know, the
gardeners that wanted
to control bindweed organically,
you could use an
application of something
like this product that
the viewer's mentioning,
something that's vinegar based,
but you will have to make
repeated applications
because it will kill what
it comes in contact with,
but then because it's
a perennial species,
it will grow leaves
again and re-sprout.
- Okay, thank you.
Question for Clain and Jamie
and whoever wants to address it.
What kind of organic
fertilizers work
and what can they
use in their lawn
as an organic fertilizer?
I'll jump in here.
I do not know what
it is, but my family
and I have gone to certified
organic lawn treatments
and we were stunned at
what a difference it made,
not only is the grass softer,
but we've also noticed a
reduced amount of pests
on our fruit trees.
Just really
dramatically different,
so Clain can answer more
about what the
composition might be.
- Yeah, yeah the main ones are,
there's so many out
there, but they're blends
of different products from
compost teas to blood meals,
bone meals and the
effectiveness is
probably unfortunately gonna be
a little bit trial and error
unless you can find somebody
who's done some research on them
and probably the rates are a
little bit trial and error.
So there's a lot of products.
The one thing that I would
probably do a little math on
and I can help you
with the math is
how much nutrient is
actually going down
'cause sometimes the
products are recommended
at fairly low rates and
don't have much nutrients
and in that case, you
might not see much
of a benefit to your lawn.
So really, really
look and you can use
some of our mock guides even
written for conventional lawns
to see about how much
nutrients lawns need
and then just make sure that
that your lawn is getting that
with the organic product.
- And I would say in our case
we use a commercial service.
So I'm assuming that you know,
they're experienced
with lawns in our area.
- All right, thank you.
Got several more questions
I'd like to get to.
One from Mary here.
They would like to know
what the winter crop
this fall looks like.
Has there been very
much of it seeded yet?
It's been fairly dry.
- It's been pretty dry, but
quite a few people have gotten
in the ground too.
So I think it looks
pretty good for winter.
We let better.
- Yeah, that's true.
From Powler, Jamie.
This person has
considered switching to
organic agriculture,
but is worried about
the market places.
Are there contracts
available for organic crops?
- Yeah, there are
contracts available.
I would assume we're talking
dry land grain, Powler,
then yeah, there are contracts.
You know, if you look on
the back of select boxes
of Annie's Mac and Cheese,
you will see some of our
Montana organic farmers featured
on those boxes and
they had contracts
to grow the grain and the
pulses for that product.
- So I'm gonna ask you Jamie
because I know a fair
number of growers
I've worked with through the
years that have attempted
to go organically and they
go maybe five or six years.
At that point, weeds
just pretty much
take over the crop that
they're trying to grow,
not all of them, but
if they got out back
into production agriculture,
normal agriculture,
how many years would it be
before they could
go back organically?
I mean in other
words, the period time
that you don't use
any pesticides.
- Three years, yeah if
they were in production
and they use chemical
then it's three years.
CRP can actually go in
directly with a year
being able to prove that it
hadn't had chemical on it.
- Okay thank you.
Clain, this person has
the new sodded field.
They would like to know whether
or not they should
fertilize it this fall
and continue to water
it into the fall?
- So by new sodded field
or new sodded lawn?
- [Jack] Newly sodded lawn, yes.
- Oh okay, and should
they fertilize it?
- [Jack] Yes.
- Is the question.
You know a lot of
times sodded farms do
a very good
aggressive job I think
with their fertilization.
So there might be
fertilizer right there
in that root zone.
They might not need very
much to get that crop
or that grass to spring.
I think the more important thing
with new sod is ample water
and I would probably lean
towards not fertilizing,
but open to your
opinion too Jack.
- Okay, I agree, I
think you're right.
Mary from Helena, this
person has a seven
to eight-year-old juniper
in a grove of junipers.
They are about 20, 25 feet high.
One juniper has suddenly
in about two weeks
dried up and died.
Any idea what might
be causing this
and in your opinion,
are the other neighboring
junipers at risk?
- Oh that's a tough one.
We're gonna need some
more information.
It could have been a trauma,
it could have been
a lot of things, so.
- Root girdling will do that
for a short period of time,
but Clain, interesting
question here from Haver.
Are soils and organic
systems healthier compared
to conventional systems?
- Oh yeah, that's a
really hard question.
There are a number of studies
that have compared organic
to conventional, depends partly
what you what you analyze for.
One of the things that I
think is super important
to analyze when you were
talking about soil health
is soil organic
matter and at least
based on a few studies
we've done here at MSU,
we sometimes, we often
don't see big differences
in organic matter
across a fence line.
The advantage that the
conventional farmer has is
that he or she is not tilling
and we know that helps
build organic matter.
Advantage the
organic farmer has is
they often add something
like a cover crop,
sometimes add manure
and so I think that's
why the two kind of
balance each other out
and there's not big differences
in soil organic matter,
but you'd have to look at
all the different varieties
of soil health parameters
from biological,
chemical and physical and again,
there's trade-offs
between organic tilled
that has some advantages
from the organic side,
crop rotation side and
then there's advantages
to the no-till side.
So a very difficult
question to answer.
- I agree with you entirely.
Jamie, this person
has a small garden
and he's been treating
it organically for
about five years.
He's somewhat interested
in joining the MOA
as we call an organization.
How do they go about doing that?
- Oh my goodness, well
you can visit our website
and you can actually get
your membership online
and we have very
affordable memberships,
or you can contact me too
and I can directly send a pdf
that if they wanna print off
and not do that online, yeah.
Our website or contact me,
and I'm available
from that website.
- Yeah roughly how many members
does the organization
currently have?
- We have over 200
members and again,
they are range from
consumers to handlers
to producers and
again, the wide range.
We have buyers, so yeah,
and it's a very warm
and welcoming group.
Our researchers and I
think our cell folks
can agree with that.
- Okay thank you, Jane for you.
A Glendive caller has
some dandelion advice.
She spreads pelletized
lawn lime on the plants
and says it works
great, your opinion.
- I have never heard of
that, but you know what?
Her experience is valuable.
- I've not heard of it either,
but a caller from Lewistown
would like to know
which of the organic
manure animal fertilizers
is highest in nitrogen?
So Clain, I suspect
that's yours.
- Chicken manure would
be would be the highest.
Horse manure would be the lowest
and then probably sheep and
goat are second, third highest.
I would guess deer is
about fourth in there.
A lot of those numbers
you can find online,
but chicken manure nitrogen
wise is quite a bit higher
than the others.
- You can burn gardens
with chicken manure,
no doubt about that.
- Compost it first if you can.
- Yeah, okay.
We're getting down on time
Jane, but here's a quick one.
Is Horry alyssum obnoxious weed
and the best control method.
- Yes it is a
state noxious weed.
There's a variety of herbicides,
you can hand pull, you can mow.
Keep it from going to
seed because that's
how it reproduces.
It does not reproduce
vegetatively
and there's an extension
bulletin on Corialism,
so check it out.
- It's really become a
rather widespread weed
here in the Gallatin Valley.
- It has, yeah.
- Okay, folks let me thank
the panel, especially Jamie.
Jamie had a couple
calls from Missoula
saying you did a great job.
Thank you for joining
us this evening.
Next week we're going to have
Shannon Brent from Bismarck.
She's executive director
of the Northern Pulse
Growers Association.
Should be fun, you'll
learn a lot about peas,
lentils, what to do with
them, how we grow them.
So forth and so on.
Again, thank everybody
for watching.
Mary thanks for being
in the studio with me.
Everyone, have a good
night, see you next week.
Take care, bye.
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- [Narrator] For more
information and resources,
visit montanapbs.org/AGlive.
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Montana AG Live is made possible
by the Montana Department
of Agriculture,
The MSU Extension Service,
The MSU AG Experiment Stations
of the College of Agriculture,
The Montana Wheat
and Barley Committee,
The Montana Bankers Association,
Cashman Nursery and Landscaping,
The Gallatin Gardeners Club
and The Rocky Mountain
Certified Crop Advisor Program.
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