>>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."
I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.
FOR YEARS THE IDEA OF REPARATIONS FOR SLAVERY WAS LITTLE MORE THAN A PIPE DREAM AS REPARATIONS WERE THOUGHT TO BE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO QUANTIFY AND EVEN HARDER TO GAIN POLITICAL SUPPORT FOR.
BUT TIMES HAVE CHANGED.
THE COUNTRY'S RACIAL AWAKENING FOLLOWING THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND SUBSEQUENT BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT HAVE SPURRED SEVERAL STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO BEGIN TO STUDY AND EVEN ENACT WAYS TO FINANCIALLY COMPENSATE BLACK AMERICANS FOR THE HISTORIC INJUSTICE OF SLAVERY.
NEW YORK IS THE LATEST STATE LOOKING TO JOIN THE CONVERSATION ON REPARATIONS, AND MAYOR ADAMS HAS SIGNALLED HIS SUPPORT FOR THE IDEA, AND ALBANY IS CONSIDERING A BILL TO CREATE A COMMISSION TO STUDY AND ULTIMATELY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON STATEWIDE REPARATIONS.
JOINING ME NOW AS PART OF OUR CHASING THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON POVERTY, JUSTICE, AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA IS STATE SENATOR JABARI BRISPORT.
HE REPRESENTS PARTS OF BROOKLYN INCLUDING FT. GREEN AND BED STUY AND IS SPONSOR OF THE BILL TO STUDY REPARATIONS HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.
WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME, JENNA.
>> I WANT TO BEGIN WITH WHAT I MENTIONED IN THE INTRO, AND THAT IS, WHY IS NOW THE TIME?
BECAUSE FOR THE LONGEST TIME REPARATIONS WAS SORT OF LIKE, YEAH, IT'S A NICE IDEA, BUT I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALLY THOUGHT IT WAS A POSSIBILITY.
SO WHAT IS AT LEAST COMING TO THE TABLE OR YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE COMES TO THE TABLE IN NEW YORK.
>> THANK YOU FOR ASKING THAT, BECAUSE WE ARE WAY OVERDUE.
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR REPARATIONS SINCE THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR FOR THE DESCENDENTS OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS.
WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE WE HAVE A BILL IN CONGRESS THAT IS NOT MOVING AND YOU HAVE STATES AND LOCALITIES TAKING UP THE MANTEL AND SAYING, WE WILL DO IT HERE AS WE GET TO A NATIONAL REPARATIONS PROGRAM.
I KNOW CALIFORNIA DRAFTED A COMMISSION, AND THEY RECENTLY RELEASED AN INITIAL ROUND OF RECOMMENDATIONS AND WE'RE PLANNING TO DO THE SAME THING IN NEW YORK.
>> SO, NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I ALSO WANT TO CLARIFY HERE IS THAT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, THEY MIGHT SAY, WELL, WAIT A SECOND, NEW YORK WAS A NORTHERN STATE.
IT FOUGHT FOR THE UNION, SO WHY WOULD NEW YORK BE INCLUDED IN THIS REPARATIONS CONVERSATION?
WHAT ROLE DID NEW YORK PLAY IN SLAVERY?
>> NEW YORK WAS A SLAVE OWNING STATE FOR MOST OF ITS COLONIAL HISTORY.
AND I BELIEVE BEFORE THE INDEPENDENCE -- THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE, NEW YORK HAD ONE OF THE TOP NUMBERS OF SLAVES OUTSIDE OF CHARLESTON.
AND NEW YORK DID NOT ABOLISH SLAVERY UNTIL THE 1820s OR SO, SO THERE WAS A TOP SLAVE OWNING STATE.
AND EVEN SO, STATES THAT MAY NOT HAVE HAD SLAVES THEMSELVES STILL BENEFITTED FROM SLAVERY.
YOU KNOW, COTTON THAT WAS PICKED BY SLAVES IN THE SOUTH WAS BOUGHT AND SOLD IN NORTHERN STATES AS WELL.
>> OKAY.
AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO REPARATIONS, I JUST WANT TO ALSO GET AN IDEA OF HOW SPECIFIC ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
BECAUSE THE BLACK POPULATION IN AMERICA ISN'T NECESSARILY AT OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS.
HOWEVER, A LOT OF THE BLOCK POP POPULATION IN AMERICA HAS BEEN SUBJECT TO, LET'S SAY, THE OUTCOMES OR SUBSEQUENT OUTCOMES IN TERMS OF POLICY OR ECONOMICS, ET CETERA, THAT SLAVERY HAS LEFT BEHIND.
>> THERE ARE TWO WAYS THIS BILL AND THIS COMMISSION WILL LOOK AT THAT.
ONE, ACKNOWLEDGING THAT SLAVERY WAS AN INTERNATIONAL SLAVE TRADE AND JUST AS NEW YORK INSTITUTIONS BENEFITTED FROM THE COTTON THAT WAS PICKED BY SLAVES IN THE AMERICAN SOUTH, NEW YORK INSTITUTIONS ALSO BENEFITTED FROM THE SUGAR THAT WAS GROWN BY SLAVES IN THE CARIBBEAN.
IT WAS AN INTERNATIONAL SLAVE TRADE, SO THERE'S THAT.
AND THEN THERE'S ALSO ACKNOWLEDGING, YES, THE HARMS THAT CAME AFTER SLAVERY.
SO THIS COMMISSION WILL NOT SIMPLY STOP ITS INVESTIGATION OF WHAT HAPPENED UP UNTIL THE 1820s WHEN NEW YORK ABOLISHED IT OR EVEN 1865 IN AMERICA.
IT WILL EXAMINE THE RED LINES AFTERWARDS.
THE JIM CROW -- RED LINING, THE LOSS OF PROPERTY IN NEW YORK AND WHAT OTHER INSTITUTIONS CONTINUED TO BENEFIT FROM IT.
>> ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT USUALLY COMES UP AROUND REPARATIONS AS A PUSHBACK IS HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHICH PEOPLE, WHICH INDIVIDUALS WOULD QUALIFY TO BENEFIT FROM THESE REPARATIONS?
>> THAT'S FOR THE COMMISSION TO DECIDE, AND AS IT'S GOING THROUGH THE -- ITS STUDIES.
WE'RE DOING A YEAR OF RESEARCH, HEARINGS ACROSS THE STATES.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MANY CORPS WEIGHS THAT BENEFITTED FROM SLAVERY.
YOU KNOW, MANY BANKS THAT MIGHT HAVE USED SLAVES AS COLLATERAL, AND IT IS A PROCESS TO DETERMINE WHO AND HOW MUCH AND WHAT FORM, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE BEING REALLY INTENTIONAL ABOUT DOING.
>> YOU SORT OF TOUCHED ON THIS BEFORE, BUT I WANT TO ASK AGAIN TO CLARIFY.
WHEN IT COMES TO THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED AFTER SLAVERY ENDED -- I'M TALKING ABOUT JIM CROWS, RED LINING ALL THOSE THING, WOULD THAT ALL BE FOLDED INTO THIS STUDY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?
>> YES IT'S LOOKING AT THE SLAVERY, THE INSTITUTION ITSELF, AND THE HARMS AFTERWARDS, AND EVEN ACKNOWLEDGING -- MANY WOULD ARGUE THAT SLAVERY NEVER ENDED BECAUSE OF THE 13th AMENDMENT, WHICH ALLOWS PEOPLE TO WORK FOR FREE IF THEY ARE AN INCARCERATED PERSON, AND SO THAT WILL BE FOLDED INTO IT AS WELL, EXAMINING HOW HAS THE PENAL SYSTEM DISPROPORTIONATELY HURT BLACK AMERICANS, DESCENDENTS OF SLAVES AND DENIED WEALTH AND OTHER INCENTIVES FOR US.
>> SO, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT OF COURSE NEW YORK IS LOOKING AT.
YOU MENTIONED CALIFORNIA AS WELL.
FROM YOUR TAKE, IS THIS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS STATE BY STATE BY STATE, OR DO YOU THINK THERE'S A POSSIBILITY WE COULD SEE ACTION FROM A FEDERAL LEVEL?
>> I THINK THERE'S A POSSIBILITY IF WE CONTINUE TO LEAD BY THE STATES -- THAT'S HOW WE GENERATE MOMENTUM FOR THINGS LIKE THIS.
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, A NATIONAL REPARATIONS PROGRAM HAPPEN, BUT IN THE ABSENCE OF THAT, IN THE INTENSE GRIDLOCK IN CONGRESS BE THE FAILURE OF CONGRESS TO MOVE A REPARATIONS STUDY BILL, STATES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAD THE WAY.
AN AVALANCHE ALWAYS STARTS WITH A FEW SNOWFLAKES, SO WE'RE GOING TO PUSH IT THAT WAY.
>> SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT QUANTIFYING THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF SLAVERY, OF COURSE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THIS STUDY YOU'RE SAYING -- COMMISSION, EXCUSE ME, WOULD STUDY IN NEW YORK STATE, BUT HOW WOULD -- OR PERHAPS SEE THIS AS THEN BEING DIVVIED UP AND DISTRIBUTED?
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A CHECK LIKE SO MANY AMERICANS GOT DURING THE PANDEMIC?
OR WOULD THIS BE THROUGH, LIKE, GRANTS?
HOW DO YOU SEE THIS MONEY, ONCE THAT SUM IS DETERMINED, HOW DO YOU SEE IT GETTING DISTRIBUTED?
>> THAT'S AGAIN FOR THE COMMISSION TO DECIDE, BUT I THINK GENERAL SENTIMENT -- AND WHEN I SPEAK WITH PEOPLE IN THIS SPACE IS THAT REPARATIONS MUST INCLUDE A CHECK BUT NOT BE LIMITED TO A CHECK.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF FINANCIAL RESTITUTION BUT ALSO LOOKING INTO OTHER WAYS OF ACKNOWLEDGING THE HARM, APOLOGIZING FOR IT, AND DOING A PROMISE OF IT NEVER HAPPENING AGAIN.
THERE MIGHT BE CHANGES TO EDUCATION CURRICULUMS, MAY BE THINGS IN HOUSING, OR OTHER FORMS.
>> PICKING UP ON THAT APOLOGY PART, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO FORMALLY -- FOR THE STATE TO FORMALLY APOLOGIZE FOR THE ROLE THAT IT PLAYED?
>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE SAYING THAT THOSE WHO DO NOT LEARN OR IGNORE HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.
AND WHILE WE HAVE NOT REPEATED SLAVERY ITSELF IN NEW YORK, BY IGNORING OUR PART IN THE SYSTEM WE CONTINUE TO DISENFRANCHISE BLACK AMERICANS, DESCENDENTS OF SLAVES IN OTHER WAYS.
AND APOLOGIZING FOR IT IS ONE WAY OF REALLY BEGINNING TO UNDO THE HARM THAT SLAVERY CAUSED.
>> NOW, WHEN IT COMES TO APOLOGIZING THERE'S NEW YORK STATE, BUT WITHIN NEW YORK STATE THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUSINESSES AND INSTITUTIONS THAT ALSO BENEFIT, EVERYTHING FROM, YOU KNOW, EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, UNIVERSIIES TO, AS YOU MENTIONED, SOME OF THE BANKS, SOME OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
WALL STREET ITSELF WAS A SLAVE MARKET AT ONE POINT.
SO WOULD YOU EXPECT -- OR WOULD THAT BE PERHAPS REQUIRED FOR NOT JUST THE STATE, BUT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL, LIKE I SAID, INSTITUTIONS TO ALSO MAKE AN APOLOGY FOR THE FACT THAT THEY DID BENEFIT FROM THIS SLAVE TRADE?
>> I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING REASONABLE TO EXPECT THAT THEY DO, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT PARTICULARLY -- MAY LITERALLY HAVE EXISTED AT THE TIME OF SLAVERY AND USED SLAVE AS COLLATERAL IN THEIR OWN BANKING INSTITUTIONS.
I THINK THAT SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE CONSIDERED TO BE A PART OF THIS.
AND AGAIN, THIS COMMISSION WILL SPEND A YEAR, LIKE, DOING RESEARCH INTO THIS AND FIGURING OUT, MAYBE IT'S NOT JUST BANKS.
MIGHT BE OTHER INSTITUTIONS AS WELL THAT BENEFITTED FROM SLAVERY THAT NEED TO APOLOGIZE AND ALSO DETERMINE WHAT THE APOLOGY -- WHAT FORM IT MAY TAKE.
I BELIEVE THERE HAS BEEN ONE BANK THAT DID APOLOGIZE EARLY IN THE 2000s FOR THEIR ROLE, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS A VERBAL APOLOGY, AND APOLOGIES CAN TAKE MANY FORMS.
THERE ARE VERBAL APOLOGIES.
MAY BE A FINANCIAL APOLOGY, TOO.
THESE ARE ALL THINGS FOR THE COMMISSION TO DIVE INTO AND REALLY DISSECT.
>> I'M ALSO WONDERING, BECAUSE SLAVERY -- NOT SLAVERY, BUT REPARATIONS HAS BEEN A VERY CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE.
A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SAID, WAIT A SEARCH WHY SHOULD ALL AFRICAN AMERICANS OR PERHAPS BLACK PEOPLE LIVING IN AMERICA BE ABLE TO BENEFIT FROM THIS WHEN THERE WERE POOR WHITE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY NOW RESEARCHERS ARE SAYING ALSO WERE DETRIMENTALLY HARMED BY THE SLAVE TRADE?
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WILL BE CONSIDERED IN THE STUDY AS WELL?
>> THIS STUDY SPECIFICALLY LIMITS IT TO DESCENDENT OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS, SO I DO NOT THINK THAT ANY INDIVIDUAL THAT WAS HARMED BY THE SLAVE TRADE THAT WAS NOT FROM ATLANTIC SLAVE AFRICAN WILL BE COVERED BY THIS STUDY, BUT IT IS TRUE THAT WE HAVE A VIOLENT HISTORY IN AMERICA, AND THERE ARE MANY STEPS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN FORWARD TO MOVE BEYOND THAT AND I AM DEFINITELY NOT AGAINST IN THE FUTURE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO HELP OUT OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HARMED BY VIOLENCE IN THE PAST.
>> MM-HMM.
AND YOU ALSO MENTIONED EARLIER IN OUR CONVERSATION THAT CALIFORNIA WAS ANOTHER STATE THAT WAS SERIOUSLY STUDYING AND LOOKING AT THIS AND DID COME UP WITH THE NUMBER, I BELIEVE IT WAS $5 MILLION TO EVERY BLACK RESIDENT WHO QUALIFIES.
IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT WERE TO HAPPEN IN NEW YORK, I GUESS, AGAIN, WOULD THAT BE A NUMBER THAT WOULD EVEN FRIGHTEN PEOPLE?
SOMEONE WHO, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS LIVES NEXT DOOR TO YOU COULD SUDDENLY COME INTO $5 MILLION.
THAT IS QUITE A LOT OF MONEY.
AND WOULD THIS STUDY INCLUDE SOME EDUCATION ON WHAT TO DO WITH $5 MILLION, BECAUSE THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY TO SUDDENLY COME INTO.
>> YEAH, I DEFINITELY ANY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COME TO THE LEGISLATURE FROM THE COMMISSION MUST INCLUDE WAYS TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO USE, YOU KNOW, THEIR REPARATIONS EFFECTIVELY.
BUT IN TERMS OF THE DOLLAR FIGURE I WOULD JUST CAUTION ANYONE OF THINKING THAT'S TOO MUCH.
NEW YORK'S BILLIONAIRES ENRICHED THEMSELVES BY TEN OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DURING THE PANDEMIC JUST BY EXPLOITING WORKING CLASS PEOPLE ACROSS NEW YORK, AND SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REPAIRING THE HARMS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DOLLAR FIGURE IS GOING TO BE IN NEW YORK, BUT $5 MILLION PALES IN COMPARISON.
>> VERY QUICKLY BEFORE I LET YOU GO, IF YOU COULD WAVE A MAGIC WAND, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE COME OUT OF THIS STUDY?
>> IF I COULD WAVE MY MAGIC WAND -- THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION -- I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A VERY ROBUST PROPOSAL THAT REALLY HITS ALL THE POINTS.
YOU KNOW, ANALYZES THE COMPLEX INTRICACIES OF THE INTERNATIONAL SLAVE TRADE, WHO BENEFITTED FROM IT, AND HAS A SERIES OF PROPOSALS THAT ARE NOT LIMITED TO A SIMPLE CHECK FOR HOWEVER MANY DOLLARS BUT CHANGES TO THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, CHANGES TO, YOU KNOW, EVEN THINGS SUCH AS STREET NAMES THAT MAY BE STILL NAMED AFTER SLAVE OWNERS, AND ALSO JUST WAYS TO HELP OUT WITH BASIC NEEDS OF OUR COMMUNITIES SUCH AS HOUSING AND JOBS AND HEALTH CARE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WELL, ON THAT NOTE, SENATOR JABARI BRISPORT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FORJOINING US AND KEEP US INFORMED ON ANY UPDATE THAT MIGHT COME OUT OF THIS COMMISSION STUDY, SO THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, JENNA.
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