>>> TONIGHT, IS IT TEACHING OR CHEATING?
THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE PROGRAM CHATGPT IS DOING THINGS WE NEVER IMAGINED, FROM WRITING POETRY AND ESSAYS TO PASSING EXAMS.
BUT SHOULD IT BE ALLOW IN THE CLASS?
NEW YORK CITY RIGHT NOW SAYS NO, BUT MEET THE IVY LEAGUE EDUCATOR REQUIRING HIS STUDENTS TO USE THE SOFTWARE.
PLUS, HOW GROUPS ARE TURNING TO SOCIAL MEDIA TO BRAINWASH OUR CHILDREN.
"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.
♪♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.
>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."
I'M JACK FORD.
A NEW ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE PROGRAM, CHATGPT IS SWEEPING THE INTERNET.
THE FREE SOFTWARE IS CAPABLE OF DOING ALMOST EVERYTHING FROM WRIGHT ESSAYS, FILM SCRIPTS, AND POETRY TO PASSING GRADUATE LEVEL LAW AND BUSINESS SCHOOL EXAMS.
THIS REVOLUTIONARY SOFTWARE, WHILE NO DOUBT EXCITING, IS ALSO CONCERNING FOR SOME EDUCATORS WHO FEEL STUDENTS COULD USE IT TO EASILY CHEAT ON ASSIGNMENTS.
NEW YORK CITY IS ONE OF SEVERAL LARGE DISTRICTS THAT ALREADY BANNED STUDENTS FROM USING CHATGPT AS OFFICIALS REVIEW THE POTENTIAL PROS AND CONS OF GIVING STUDENTS ACCESS TO SUCH A POWERFUL RESOURCE.
WHILE CHATGPT CERTAINLY HAS ITS CRITICS, THERE ARE OTHER EDUCATOR WHO IS FEEL THE SOFTWARE CAN BE AN INCREDIBLY USEFUL TOOL AS LONG AS WE TEACH THEM TO USE IT THE RIGHT WAY.
JOINING US FOR MORE ON CHATGPT AND WHY HE'S NOT ONLY ENCOURAGING HIS STUDENTS BUT REQUIRING IT IN SOME FASHION IS DR. ETHAN MOLLICK, AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT THE WHARTON SCHOOL AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> I'M WAITING TO SEE WHAT MY FINAL PAPERS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE HERE, SO THIS IS AN ESPECIALLY RELEVANT CONVERSATION FOR ME TO HAVE WITH YOU AND ALL OF OUR VIEWERS.
LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING, WHICH IS A GOOD PLACE TO START.
GIVE US A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF WHAT THIS IS WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHATGPT AND WHAT ITS ABILITIES ARE.
>> SURE, SO IT'S OFTEN CALLED A.I., BUT A.I.
IS AN IMPRECISE TERM THAT MEANS A LOT OF THINGS.
CHATGPT IS WHAT'S CALLED A LARGE LANGUAGE MODEL.
THINK OF IT AS AUTOCOMPLETE BEATS A ROBOT.
IT CAN CREATE TEXT FOR YOU BASED ON WHATEVER YOU ASKED IT, HAVING LEARNED EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET THROUGH OCTOBER 2021.
>> IT'S A CONCEPT THAT'S HARD TO GET NOT ONLY YOUR BRAINS BUT YOUR ARMS AROUND.
HOW BIG IS THIS?
>> THESE MODELS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS.
GPT HAS BEEN AROUND A YEAR AND A HALF.
PEOPLE GOT ANXIOUS ABOUT IT.
IT PRODUCED C MINUS ESSAYS.
THAT WAS UPDATED AT THE END OF NOVEMBER WITH CHATGPT AND GPT 3.5, SAME THING.
SUDDENLY EVEN THOUGH THE TECHNOLOGY IS THE SAME, THE MODEL, SOMETHING BIG HAPPENED AND CAPABILIIES WENT FROM MEDIOCRE TO STUNNING.
>> THERE WAS AN INITIAL REACTION AMONG MANY EDUCATORS SAYING THIS CAN'T BE GOOD FOR OUR STUDENTS AND ORIGINAL THINKING, BUT LET'S FOCUS ON YOUR VIEW OF THIS AND WHY YOU CONCLUDED THIS CAN BE A VALUABLE TOOL.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS SO?
>> SO, WHAT'S FASCINATING ABOUT USING THIS -- AND I'D RECOMMEND THERE'S A FREE VERSION AVAILABLE, AND EVERYBODY SHOULD TRY THIS OUT AND NOT JUST FOR A FEW MINUTES.
YOU GOT TO SPEND LIKE AN HOUR TO KIND OF GET IT.
A BUNCH OF GUIDANCE AND STUFF TO IT.
BUT I THINK WHAT YOU'LL FIND IS FOR WRITING IT DOES ALL SORTS OF AMAZING THINGS.
FOR EXAMPLE, A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T GREAT AT GENERATING IDEAS.
IT WILL BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU 50 IDEAS FOR A PROJECT TO DO.
NOT ONLY GOOD, BUT SOME GREAT.
IT CAN TAKE IS SYNTHESIZE ACADEMIC INFORMATION.
YOU CAN PUT AN ACADEMIC PAINER IN AND ASK IT TO SUMMARIZE IT.
YOU CAN PUT YOUR WRITING IN AND MAKE IT PUNCHIER.
WE HAVE A VENN TOOL, FEELS LIKE SOMETHING WE SHOULD INCORPORATE RATHER THAN FIGHT.
>> EXPLAIN US TO SOME OF YOUR COURSES, WHAT YOU TEACH AND HOW YOU FEEL YOU CAN INCORPORATE THAT IN A SAFE ACADEMIC FASHION.
>> LET ME TELL YOU HOW I COULDN'T STOP IT.
I STARTED USING CHATGPT FROM THE BEGINNING BECAUSE I ALREADY HAD BEEN PLAYING WITH THE A.I.
SYSTEMS.
CAME OUT, AND TUESDAY I INTRODUCED IT TO MY CLASS.
BY THE END OF THE FIRST CLASS, ONE OF MY STUDENTS CREATED A COMPLETE WORKING DEMO WITH CODE USING A CODING LIBRARY THEY NEVER USED BEFORE.
I POSTED ON TWITTER, THEY HAD THREE VENTURE CAPITAL THAT NIGHT.
EXPLAIN A CONCEPT THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, TELL THEM A TEST RESULT.
IT'S BEING USED EVERYWHERE.
CHEATING IS ONE POSSIBILITY BUCK NOT THE ONLY ONE.
IN MY CLASSES I REQUIRE IT ALL OVER I EXPECT MY STUDENTS TO USE IT TO GENERATE IDEAS, HELP THEM RIGHT ESSAYS I INCREASED THE AMOUNT OF THINS THEY HAVE TO WRITE AND DIVERSITY ALL BECAUSE THIS TOOL MAKES ITS EASIER TO DO SO.
>> WE SEE OFTENTIMES FOLKS SUGGESTING A COMPARISON SAYING, WAIT, DON'T BE ALARMED.
THIS IS PROGRESS.
GO BACK TO THE DAYS WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, AND EVEN COLLEGE ALTHOUGH AS A HISTORY MAJOR I DIDN'T TAKE A WHOLE LOT OF MATH COURSES.
THERE WAS A TIME WHEN YOU COULD NOT USE CALCULATORS, AND THEN THIS WAS KIND OF AN EARTH SHATTERING MOMENT FOR SOME TRADITIONALISTS WHEN FOLKS SAID, WAIT A MINUTE, WHY CAN'T YOU USE CALCULATORS IN YOUR CLASS TO HELP YOU?
IS THAT A VIABLE PARALLEL, DO YOU THINK, FOR WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE?
>> I THINK IN THE SHORT-TERM, VERY MUCH SO.
IN THE SHORT-TERM THIS IS LIKE A CALCULATOR.
IF YOU'RE TAKING A WRITING CLASS WHERE COMPOSITION IS GOING TO MATTER.
JUST LIKE A KALA LATER YOU'LL NEED TO USE A BLUE BOOK AND HANDWRITE THINGS.
FOR CLASSES WHERE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO ADVANCED MATH OR WRITING WE CAN DO MORE OF THAT BECAUSE IT'S BETTER.
IN THE LONG-TERM, THE REAL QUESTIONS ARE, THIS IS AN ISSUE FOR THE CLASSROOM.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE REAL WORLD?
THAT'S THE REAL ISSUE.
>> I'VE SEEN SOME OBSERVATIONS MADE.
CERTAINLY THIS IS EVEN AMONG SUPPORTERS OF THE IDEA.
I MIGHT HAVE SEEN IT ON THE WEBSITE FOR OPEN A.I.
WHO DEVELOPED THIS.
THEY SAY THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A CAUTION HERE AS TO HOW THIS COMES OUT, AND ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS I SAW WAS, THE ABILITY OF THE HUMAN MIND TO CRAFT WORDS AND THOUGHTS AND IDEAS, AND PERHAPS THIS ISN'T AT THAT LEVEL.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
>> SO, NOT TO GET TOO AHEAD OF THE GAME, BUT JUST YESTERDAY I WAS GIVEN ACCESS TO THE NEWEST A.I., WHICH IS BING'S A.I., OPEN A.I., CHATGPT ON SOME SORT OF STEROIDS ATTACHED TO THE INT A NET.
I ASKED IT TO WRITE A DESCRIPTION OF A PERSON EATING CAKE.
THEN I TOLD IT TO LOOK UP KURT VON GUT'S WRITING STYLE AND TOLD IT TO APPLY IT.
YOU TOLD ME THERE NEEDS TO BE ANTAGONISTS AND DRAMA AND SARCASM.
I WAS BLOWN AWAY.
IS IT AS GOOD AS THE BEST HUMAN WRITERS?
NO.
IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FOUR MONTHS AGO AND COULDN'T WRITE AT ALL, "B" LEVEL CLASSES TO THIS?
WE HAVE A PROGRESSION THAT IS A PRETTY FAST ONE.
I'M ALL FOR HUMAN INGENUITY PLAYING A ROLE, BUT WE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS THAT WHAT THE SYSTEMS DO TODAY IS WHAT THEY'LL KEEP DOING.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE OBJECTIONS.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM YOUR COLLEAGUES THAT MAY WELL RESONATE WITH YOU AND CERTAINLY WITH THEM AS TO WHY THEY ARE TO SOME DEGREE OR OTHER UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE UTILIZATION OF THIS PROGRAM?
>> I THINK IT BREAKS DOWN TO A FEW THINGS.
ONE IS THE CAPABILITIES OF THE SYSTEM ITSELF.
SO CHATGPT AND ALL LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS AT THIS STAGE LIE.
THEY LIE A LOT.
THEY LIE SAMELESSLY AND CONVINCINGLY.
>> ARE THEY POLITICIANS?
IS WHAT THEY'VE CREATED THEMSELVES AT?
SORRY, AN EDITORIAL COMMENT.
COULDN'T HELP MYSELF.
SORRY.
>> YOU'RE NOT THE FIRST PERSON TO DO THAT.
THEY DON'T DO IT WITH INTENT.
THEY HALLUCINATE.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S -- IT'S GENERATING INFORMATION THAT'S PLAUSIBLE, AND ONCE IT RUNS OUT OF RAIL, IT STARTS MAKING STUFF UP.
IT'S SO PLAUSIBLE I USE AN A.I.
SYSTEM THAT'S TRAINED ON MY TWITTER FEED TO GENERATE -- I ASK THE QUESTIONS TO ANSWER ON MY BEHALF, AND IT STARTED CITING PAPERS THAT SEEMED SO PLAUSIBLE THAT I THOUGHT I MIGHT HAVE WRITTEN THEM AND NOT REMEMBERED FROM TEN YEARS AGO.
BUT THEY'RE REALLY FAKE, RIGHT?
SO IT MAKES UP INFORMATION.
SO THAT'S THE FIRST PROBLEM.
>> RIGHT.
AND THAT'S TROUBLING.
>> THAT IS TROUBLING.
SO WHAT I DO IN MY CLASS IS, I SAY, IT MAKES UP INFORMATION.
IF YOU'RE NOT AN EXPERT IN THE TOPIC, YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL AND I'M GOING TO GRADE YOU BASED ON THE ACCURACY OF YOUR RESULTS.
SO YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE IT HALLUCINATES AND YOU HAVE TO USE THAT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE, OR AVOID IT AND DISADVANTAGE RATHER.
>> YOU HAVE BUSINESS COURSES AND VARIOUS MODELS.
I TEACH AN UNDERGRADUATE SEMINAR AT YALE ON FAMOUS TRIAL, AND AS OUR FINAL PROJECT, EACH OF MY 18 STUDENTS NEED TO FIND A TRIAL THAT'S OUT THERE, NOT OF THE 12 WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, BUT OTHERS.
AND THEN THEY HAVE TO WRITE ABOUT IT.
THEY HAVE TO WRITE WHY IT WAS SIGNIFICANT, THE LEGAL IMP IMPLICATION, THE POLITICAL, SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS, HISTORICAL CONSEQUENCES.
ESSENTIALLY WHY IT SHOULD BE VIEWED AS OF VALUE.
CERTAINLY TO THEM AND MAYBE TO OTHERS.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK THIS WOULD LEND ITSELF TO, OR IS THAT SOMETHING I SHOULD BE FEARFUL OF?
>> SO, I WOULD SAY A WEEK AGO THAT THIS SHOULD BE SOMETHING YOU SHOULD EMBRACE, BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT SOPHISTICATED ANALYSIS.
IT WOULD MAKE SOMETHING THAT SOUNDED LIKE IT, BUT YOU AS A PROFESSOR WOULD KNOW IT.
SOME STUDENTS ENGLISH IS A SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH LANGUAGE.
LOTS TO LEARN, BUT WE SAY WRITING IS INTELLIGENCE.
IT ISN'T AUTOMATION I WOULD HAVE SAID, IT'S GREAT.
IT WILL BE A TOOL TO HELP THEM BECOME BETTER WRITERS.
YOU HAVE TO BE NERVOUS, BECAUSE IT WILL CREATE MORE CONTENT WITHOUT BEING AS THOUGHTFUL, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING INTERESTING THERE.
I WILL TELL YOU THAT BING A.I.
IS CAPABLE OF DOING ANALYSIS WHERE YOU SAY, HERE'S THE ASSIGNMENT, WRITE ME 2,000 WARS ABOUT IT, AND IT DOES SOMETHING INCREDIBLE WITH THAT.
THE WORLD IS CHANGING PRETTY QUICKLY.
WHAT I CAN SAY IS MY ADVICE LAST WEEK WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN THIS WEEK WOMEN NEED TO STAY TUNED.
>> PRETTY GOOD INDICATOR HOW QUICKLY THE WORLD IS CHANGING.
BRINGS ME TO MY LAST QUESTION.
FASCINATING CONVERSATION.
WE COULD TALK FOR HOURS.
MINUTE AND A HALF LEFT, MAYBE LESS.
WORLD IS CHANGING RAPIDLY.
FIVE YEARS FROM NOW IN YOUR CLASSROOM AND MY CLASSROOM AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CLASSROOMS, WHAT IS THIS GOING TO LOOK LIKE?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
THE TECHNOLOGY'S INCREASING BY AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE EVERY YEAR.
I WAS ABLE TO CREATE A DEEP FAKE LECTURE OF MYSELF WHERE I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.
THE A.I.
CREATED THE SPEECH.
I SAID WRITE A SPEECH LIKE ETHAN MOLLICK, IT DID THAT WAS GOOD AND ACCURATE.
I SYNTHESIZED MY VOICE FROM A MINUTE OF SPEECH, AND ANOTHER THAT GENERATED ANIMATED IMAGES OF ME TALKING FROM A SINGLE PHOTOGRAPH.
I CREATED A LECTURE WITH NO WORK.
THAT'S NOW, RIGHT?
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE FUTURE?
REALLY HARD TO KNOW.
USUALLY WE SAY TECHNOLOGY DOESN'T CHANGE STUFF THAT MUCH, RIGHT?
I DON'T KNOW, THE PACE OF CHANGE IS REALLY FAST, AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY COULD GIVE YOU AN ACCURATE PREDICTION BECAUSE NOBODY SAW THIS COMING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I THINK MOSTLY WILL BE ON RAILS, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF INTERESTING STUFF HAPPENING AT A PACE I'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN ALL MY CAREER IN TECHNOLOGY, EDUCATION, ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
>> AS YOU SAY, STAY TUNED.
THIS WAS WONDERFUL.
I CAN SEE WHY YOU'RE A FABULOUS PROFESSOR.
YOU'VE EXPLAINED THIS WONDERFULLY TO ALL OF US.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME, AND I'LL CERTAINLY TALK WITH YOU DOWN THE ROAD TO GET UPDATES ON ALL THIS.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, YOU TOO.
>>> AS THE COUNTRY CONTINUES TO GRAB REALLY A RISE IN RIGHT-WING EXTREMISM, MANY ARE LEFT TO WONDER, WHY ARE SO MANY YOUNG MEN BECOING SEDUCE BY SO MUCH HATRED?
AS PART OF OUR HATE ON THE RISE INITIATIVE, OUR NEXT GUEST HAS A THEORY SHE'S BEEN SOUNDING THE ALARM ON FOR THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS.
WRITER AND EDITOR JOANNA SCHROEDER IS A MEDIA CRITIC LOOKING SPECIFICALLY THROUGH THE LENS OF PARENTING AND GENDER.
IN 2019 SHE WROTE A "NEW YORK TIMES" OP-ED TITLED, "RACISTS ARE RECRUITING.
WATCH YOUR WHITE SONS.
", AND IN IT SHE LAYS OUT HOW A COMBINATION OF CULTURAL CHANGES, SOCIAL MEDIA, AND THE AWKWARDNESS OF ADOLESCENCE HAS CREATED FERTILE GROUND FOR EITHER EXTREMISTS OR PARENTS TO SEED.
SHE JOINS ME NOW.
JOANNA WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
>> FIRST I WANT TO GET INTO THE IN THE INTRO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE INGREDIENTS FOR EXTREMISM AND THE ROLE THAT SOCIAL MEDIA AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE ALGORITHMS A LOT OF THESE PLATFORMS PLAY, BUT HOW DID YOU COME TO UNDERSTAND THIS?
>> IT CAME TO ME VERY PERSONALLY, BECAUSE IT CAME THROUGH MY OWN KIDS' INSTAGRAM PAGES WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG.
WHAT ENDED UP HAPPENING IS I ALWAYS MONITORED THEIR "FOR YOU" PAGES AND WHATEVER THEY WERE LOOKING AT.
IN FACT, I EVEN HAD A MIRROR FOR MY YOUNGER KIDS ON MY PHONE WHERE I COULD SEE WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
I ORIGINALLY STARTED MONITORING THEM TO PREVENT THINGS LIKE BULLYING AND ANY KIND OF PREDATORY BEHAVIOR, BUT WHAT I SAW THAT CONCERNED ME THE MOST WAS THAT THEIR "FOR YOU" PAGES AND EXPLORE PAGES WERE JUST FULL OF VERY SUBTLE BUT VERY TROUBLING HATE-FILLED CONTENT.
SUDDENLY ANTI-SEMITIC, AS A RESULT -- SUBTLY RACIST.
IT WAS MIXED IN WITH JOKES.
I REALIZED, THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.
>> OF COURSE, AND SO I THINK A LOT OF PARENTS OF PERHAPS TEENS AND TWEENS MIGHT HAVE COME OF AGE BEFORE SOCIAL MEDIA, AND SO A LOT OF THE TRADITIONAL WARNING SIGNS THEY MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR, THEY DON'T MANIFEST IN THE SAME WAY.
CAN YOU SORT OF EXPAND ON THAT?
>> I'M GENERATION "X," AND WHEN I WAS YOUNG, YOU COULD TELL SKINHEADS FROM EVERYONE ELSE.
PEOPLE WOULD WEAR SWASTIKAS OR OTHER SYMBOLS.
NOW THE ANTI-DEMOCRACY AND HATE-FILLED GROUPS LOOK LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, AND THEY'RE RECRUITING PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
AND THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE AND MORE APPEALING, DON'T START OUT WANTING TO BE DANGEROUS RACISTS OR ANTI-SEMITIC.
THEY DON'T START OUT WANTING TO BE HOLOCAUST DENIERS.
THEY ARE LURED INTO IT AND ROMANCED INTO IT, AND IF THEY WERE APPROACHED BY SOMEONE EXTREME LOOKING, THEY'D PROBABLY BE LESS LIKELY TO BE LURED IN.
>> WELL, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INTO THE EXPLORE PAGES, THE DISCOVERY PAGES, THE "FOR YOU" PAGES.
BECAUSE I THINK PERHAPS -- I'M NOT A PARENT MYSELF, BUT PERHAPS PARENTS ARE, MY KIDS ARE FRIENDS WITH OTHER KID ON SOCIAL MEDIA, AND THEIR FRIENDS ARE FINE, SO IT SHOULD BE FINE.
BUT HOW DOES THE ALGORITHM -- HOW COULD IT SUCK YOU INTO SOMETHING THAT'S MORE VIOLENT AND DANGEROUS?
>> YEAH, THAT'S THE TRICKY THING.
WE THINK WHEN WE SET UP A PRIVATE ACCOUNT FOR OUR KIDS, AND WE CHECK WHO THEY'RE FOLLOWING AND WE KNOW THEY'RE FOLLOWING KIDS FROM SCHOOL AND COUSINS AND AUNTS AND UNCLES, THEY'RE SAFE.
THE REALITY IS, THEIR EXPLORE PAGES OR "FOR YOU" PAGES, WHAT WE WOULD CALL THEIR TIME LINE, IS FILLED WITH STUFF THAT'S NOT JUST FROM THEIR FRIENDS.
IT'S FROM EVERYWHERE OUTSIDE OF THE INTERNET, OUTSIDE OF THEIR LITTLE PRIVATE PAGE.
SO, WHAT HAPPENS IS -- AND I FIGURED THIS OUT BECAUSE I WAS DOING MEDIA BUYING OR AD BUYING FOR THE COMPANY I WORK FOR AND I LEARNED A LOT ABOUT HOW PEOPLE TARGET ADDS AND POSTS TO DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHICS.
AND I REALIZED THAT THESE KIDS THAT ARE ON PRIVATE ACCOUNTS ARE SEEING THINGS THAT ARE TARGETED TOWARD KIDS THAT WATCH MINECRAFT VIDEOS.
MINECRAFT IS A WONDERFUL GAME.
IT'S TOTALLY INNOCUOUS.
IT'S SAFE FOR KIDS.
PARENTS HAVE NO IDEA THERE'S THESE BAD GUYS OUT THERE THAT ARE USING THESE KIDS' INTEREST IN VIDEO GAMES TO SHOW UP IN THEIR TIME LINES ON A PRIVATE ACCOUNT WHERE THEY'RE NOT EVEN FOLLOWING THESE PEOPLE.
>> AND OF COURSE -- HOW A LOT OF THE ALGORITHMS WORK BECAUSE THEY WANT TO YOU STAY ON.
IF YOU ENGAGE WITH SOMETHING, EVEN IF IT'S INNOCENTLY, YOU SEE MORE OF IT, CORRECT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THE WAY I FOUND THIS WITH MY OWN SON -- THEY SCROLL REALLY FAST.
IT WAS LIKE SKROL, CLIRK SCROLL, CLICK, SCROLL, CLICK AND THEY LIKE EVERYTHING -- EVERYTHING -- THAT THEY SEE, ESPECIALLY THE YOUNGER KIDS.
I SAW HIM HAVE THIS IMAGE COME UP, THIS HISTORICAL IMAGE OF HITLER.
HE HEARTED IT.
I SAID WAIT.
THERE WAS THIS PROFOUNDLY -- HE HAD NO IDEA.
THAT'S WHEN THE LIGHT BULLABLE WENT INTO MY HEAD THAT PARENTS WERE TOTALLY UNPREPARED, ESPECIALLY KIDS THAT HAVE NO INTEREST IN HISTORY, NO INTEREST IN POLITICS.
THEY'RE JUST PLAYING VIDEO GAMES.
SOMEHOW THIS KID'S INTEREST IN DEPRIDE MEMES, THEY CALLED IT AT THE TIME,ER REV VENT GOOFY CONTENT AND VIDEO GAMES, SOMEONE KNEW TO SEND THESE KIDS THIS CONTENT.
AND IT DOES, IT KEEPS THEM ENGAGED, SHOWS THEM MORE.
BUT THEY FIX IT IN WITH STUFF THAT'S NOT OVERTLY ANTI-SMISIC AND HOLOCAUST DENYING.
YOUTUBE CAN BE EVEN WORSE, BECAUSE THEY AUTO PLAY VIDEO AFTER VIDEO AFTER VIDEO, AND OUR KIDS SIT DOWN AND THEY WATCH AN AWESOME YOUTUBE BLOGGER, VLOGGER PLAYING VIDEO GAMES THAT AS A PARENT YOU'VE SCREENED AND FEEL TOTALLY COMFORTABLE WITH, AND THEY'RE ENJOYING THAT AND ANOTHER ONE PLACE BUY BITHAT PERSON.
THAT THIRD VIDEO THAT MIGHT PLAY WHEN YOU WALKED OUT OF THE ROOM OR STARTED LISTENING TO YOUR OWN TO CAST MIGHT BE SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO TEACH YOUR KIDS NOTHING ABOUT VIDEO GAMES WHO INDOCTRINATE THEM ABOUT THINGS.
JORDAN PETERSON, HE'S A PSYCHOLOGIST IN CANADA, BUT HIS THEORIES ARE VERY ANTI-FEMINIST, ANTI-TRANS, VERY SUBTLY PROBLEMATIC ANY WAYS WHEN YOU'RE JUST BEGINNING WITH THEM.
HE WAS AUTOPLAYING AND I KNEW ABOUT HIM BECAUSE OF MY WORK, AND IT WAS LIKE IN A CARTOON.
I RAN INTO THE ROOM AND SCREECHED TO A STOP AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT IS THIS?
AND HOW DID IT GET HERE?
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT PARENTS REALIZE THEY'RE STARTING SO INNOCENT AND GETTING EXPOSED TO THIS STUFF THAT WAY, SLOWLY.
>> WELL, SPEAKING OF STARTING SO INNOCENT, I ALSO MENTIONED FROM YOUR ARTICLE, THE AWKWARDNESS OF ADOLESCENCE.
NOW, I THINK THAT IT'S UNIVERSALLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT PERIOD IN YOUR LIFE, PUBERTY IS UNPLEASANT TO PUT IT MILDLY.
WHAT MAKES THAT A UNIQUELY VULNERABLE TIME FOR BOYS TURNING INTO YOUNG MEN?
>> YOU KNOW, IF YOU RAISED A BOY OR RAISED A GIRL, YOU KNOW THAT ADOLESCENCE IS HARD, BUT FOR BOY OF THIS GENERATION, THEY HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT CAUGHT IN A TIME WHEN THEY'RE UNDERDEVELOPED BRAINS CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE GENDER POLITICS AT WORK.
THEY SEE SOMETHING LIKE THE FUTURE IS FEMALE ON A T-SHIRT WHEN THEY'RE 9 OR 10 YEARS OLD.
THEY'RE 14, 15 YEARS OLD, AND THE WAY THEY PROCESS THAT IS, I DON'T HAVE A PLACE IN THE FUTURE.
THE FUTURE IS FEMALE, AND I'M MALE AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE I BELONG.
AS A CONSEQUENCE A THAT.
ON TOP OF THAT, WHAT THEY SEE HAPPENING IN THEIR OWN SCHOOLS IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF RAH, RAH, GO GIRLS, WHICH IS A GREAT THING, AND THE FUTURE IS FEMALE IS A GREAT MESSAGE.
BUT UNLESS THEY'RE IN SPORTS OR IN OTHER WAYS VERY MAINSTREAMED, THEY'RE NOT GETTING THAT MESSAGE, AND SO THEY THINK GIRLS HAVE IT ALL GOING FOR THEM AND THERE'S ALL THIS POSITIVITY FOR EVERYBODY BUT THEMSELVES, SO THEY FEEL DISENFRANCHISED, FEEL MARGINALIZED.
WHETHER THEY ARE OBJECTIVELY OR NOT, WE CAN'T SAY.
BUT THAT PAIN POINT, THAT AWKWARDNESS, EVEN THE PIMPLES, THE CHANGING HORMONES, THE HE IS TESTOSTERONE, ALL OF A SUDDEN MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE LOSS.
THAT'S WHY THESE PEOPLE, IT'S NOT EXTREMIST TO SAY THEY'RE RECRUITING, THEY'RE RECRUITING INTO THIS IDEOLOGY.
THEY HIT OUR BOYS.
THEY TARGET THEM.
THEY SAY, YOU CAN'T JUST SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT ANYMORE.
YOU'RE BEING POLICED, AND GIRLS HAVE EVERYTHING AND WHITE BOYS ARE BEING HARMED BY SOCIETY SILENCING THEM.
IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR KIDS ARE BEING EXPOSED TO THIS, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO CHECK THAT NARRATIVE AND COUNTER IT IN A WOW THAT'S LOGICAL FOR THESE KIDS.
>> SO FOR PARENTS IS IT AS SIMPLE AS TELLING THEM, DON'T DO THIS, DON'T SAY THIS, OR IS IT MORE NUANCED?
>> THEY'RE GETTING A LOT OF FEELINGS OF SILENCE AND BEING SHAMED.
AS ADULTS WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO SAY, WE'RE BEING SILENCED BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO FEEL THAT WAY.
FOR INSTANCE, WHAT YOU WANT TO TELL YOUR KIDS IS THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON ONLINE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE FALL FOR, AND PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO TRICK KIDS AND ADULTS AND IT'S NOT JUST YOU WHO MAY BE TRICKED INTO IT.
I WANT YOU TO KNOW, YOU'LL PROBABLY SEE THINGS THAT AREN'T HONEST, THAT AREN'T REAL, AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT IT'S OKAY IF YOU FALL FOR IT, BUT I'D RATHER HAVE YOU COME TO ME FIRST SO YOU CAN TALK.
IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN A MEME, COME TO ME.
LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.
I'M NOT GOING TO JUDGE YOU.
I'M NOT GOING TO BE MAD.
LET'S JUST GO OVER IT.
IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT THAT THERE'S THESE GROWNUPS OUT THERE THAT THINK THEY CAN TRICK YOU INTO THINKING SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE, THAT THEY CAN TRICK YOU INTO BELIEVING SOMETHING THAT YOU NORMALLY WOULDN'T BELIEVE, AND I'M JUST HERE TO HELP YOU WITH THAT.
>> YOU DID OFFER ONE GREAT SUGGESTION, AND THAT WAS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HELPING KIDS UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAD WORDS AND HARMFUL WORDS.
WITH ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS AND HOW YOU IMPLEMENT THAT WITH YOUR KIDS?
>> FROM THE TIME WE'RE LITTLE WE TELL THEM THAT'S A NAUGHTY WORD, A BAD WORD, A DIRTY WORMED AS KIDS GET OLDER, THEY HEAR A SWEAR WORD, THE WORD YOU SAY WHEN YOU STUB YOUR TOE, AND THEY -- OH, THAT'S A BAD WORD, AND THERE'S A ZING WHEN THEY GET OLDER TO SAYING THE WORD THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SAY.
>> OF COURSE.
>> WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS THEY GET TO MIDDLE SCHOOL, THEY WANT TO PUSH BACK AT THE NORMS AND EXPECTATIONS FOR THEM, AND THEN THEY KNOW THERE'S WORDS THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SAY, BUT THEY'RE HURTFUL WORDS.
SO FROM THE TIME THEY'RE VERY YOUNG, YOU HAVE TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT, THIS IS A NAUGHTY WORD THAT SOME PEOPLE FIND RUDE.
THIS IS A HURTFUL WORD THAT CAN ACTUALLY MAKE PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY'RE UNSAFE, LIKE THEY'RE IN DANGER OR THAW DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM, AND THAT DISTINCTION WILL HELP THEIR CHILD GROW THEIR EMPATHY AND UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING SILENCED AND BEING THOUGHTFUL, BEING ASKED TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY.
>> I THINK THAT'S A GREAT PLACE TO LEAVE IT FOR US.
JOANNA SCHROEDER, WRITER, EDITOR, MEDIA CRITIC LOOKING THROUGH THE LENS OF PARENTS AND GENDER.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING SCHOOL BUS GIVING US INSIGHTFUL WAYS TO LOOK AT THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY AND CULTURE, SO THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
HAVE A GREAT DAY.
>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,