>>> TONIGHT, WHY SHOULD GUYS HAVE ALL THE FUN WHEN WOMEN CAN BE JUST AS SUCCESSFUL?
MEET THE ASIAN AMERICAN MOGUL WHO RAN A BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS ALL WHILE RAISING TWO GIRLS ON HER OWN.
HOW SHE'S NOW INSPIRING OTHER WOMEN TO FIND HAPPINESS AND FULFILLMENT IN THEIR WORK AND THEIR LIFE.
"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.
♪♪ >> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.
"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY -- >> GOOD EVENING.
I'M JACK FORD.
WHY SHOULD GUYS HAVE ALL THE FUN WHEN WOMEN CAN BE JUST AS SUCCESSFUL?
THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT CELEBRATED LAWYER, PHILANTHROPIST AND AUTHOR LOIDA LEWIS ASKS IN HER NEW MEMOIR.
BORN IN THE PHILIPPINES, THROUGH HARD WORK AND DEDICATION, SHE WENT ON TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL, PROFESSIONALLY AND PERSONALLY.
HER ACCOMPLISHMENTS ARE WIDE RANGING, FROM BECOMING THE FIRST ASIAN WOMAN TO PASS THE BAR EXAM WITHOUT EVER ATTENDING A U.S. LAW SCHOOL, TO SHEPHERDING A MULTINATIONAL CORPORATION TO RECORD EARNINGS.
AFTER HER HUSBAND, FAMED BUSINESSMAN REGINALD LEWIS PASSED AWAY.
JOINING US IN HONOR OF INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY IS ONE OF AMERICA'S LEADING FEMALE EXECUTIVES AND THE AUTHOR OF FUN: AN ASIAN AMERICAN STORY OF LOVE, MARRIAGE, MOTHERHOOD AND RUNNING A BILLION DOLLAR EMPIRE."
LOIDA LEWIS JOINS US AS PART OF OUR CHASING THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON POVERTY, JUSTICE AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA.
WELCOME.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU, JACK, FOR HAVING ME.
>> IT'S A VERY INTERESTING AND COMPELLING STORY THAT YOU TELL HERE.
I MENTIONED TO YOU, I HAD MET YOUR HUSBAND BEFORE HE SADLY PASSED AWAY AT AN EARLY AGE, AND SEEING YOUR PARALLEL LIVES AND HOW THEY JOIN TOGETHER, IT'S A FASCINATING STORY.
I'M GOING TO ASK YOU THE QUESTION WE ASK JUST ABOUT ALL AUTHORS, AND THAT IS, WHY TELL YOUR STORY AND WHY DID YOU WANT TO TELL IT NOW?
>> WELL, SINCE MR. LEWIS DIED 30 YEARS AGO, I HAVE BEEN PROMOTING HIS BOOK, IT HAS INSPIRED A LOT OF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN, TO REACH HEIGHT OF WHATEVER IS THEIR DREAM.
AFTER 30 YEARS, I WAS CHAPTER SIX IN HIS BOOK.
I SAID, I MIGHT AS WELL TELL MY STORY, BECAUSE I WAS APPROACHING THE BIG 80.
YES?
I TURNED 80 LAST YEAR.
THAT'S WHY I DECIDED TO CALL HIS CO-AUTHOR BLAIR WALKER AND SAY, YOU KNOW HALF OF MY STORY, LET'S TELL THE OTHER HALF.
THAT'S WHY I DECIDED, LET'S DO IT.
>> I DO WANT TO MENTION, THE BOOK IS BEING RELEASED THE END OF THIS MONTH, END OF MARCH.
WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT TO YOU THAT THIS BOOK BE RELEASED?
MARCH IS WOMEN'S HISTORY MONTH.
MARCH 8th IS INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY.
WHY WAS IT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU TO HAVE THOSE JOINED TOGETHER?
>> YES.
THE TITLE IS HAVE ALL THE FUN: AN ASIAN AMERICAN STORY OF LOVE, MARRIAGE, MOTHERHOOD AND RUNNING A BILLION DOLLAR EMPIRE," BECAUSE I WANT WOMEN ESPECIALLY TO READ THE BOOK AND SEE THAT WE WOMEN HAVE INNER POWERS THAT MEN DO NOT HAVE.
SO WE DON'T HAVE TO BE A MAN.
WE REMAIN WOMEN.
BUT THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO.
WHAT'S THE STORY?
WHAT'S THAT SONG?
WHATEVER YOU CAN DO, I CAN DO BETTER.
WE CAN DO DIFFERENTLY.
SO I DON'T WANT WOMEN TO BE AGHAST AND AFRAID AND -- I CAN'T DO IT.
THINK POSITIVE.
WHATEVER IS THE CHALLENGE IN FRONT OF YOU, TAKE IT.
WE CAN DO IT.
>> THAT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE.
I HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO IS A CANCER SURGEON.
I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT AS A WOMAN, AS A CANCER SURGEON DEALING WITH WOMEN'S CANCERS, SHE BRINGS SOMETHING -- IT'S NOT THAT OTHER MALE SURGEONS WOULDN'T, BUT SHE BRINGS SOMETHING AS YOU SAID THAT WOMEN BRING, THAT IS DIFFERENT.
WHY DID YOU FIND?
I'M GOING TO JUMP AHEAD A LITTLE BIT, THEN I WILL TALK ABOUT SOME OF YOUR PERSONAL STORY.
WE TALKED ABOUT THE UNTIMELY DEATH OF YOUR HUSBAND, REGINALD LEWIS, AT THE AGE OF 50.
HE HAD BEEN HERALDED AS THE FIRST BLACK MAN TO OWN A COMPANY WORTH A BILLION DOLLARS.
AFTER HE PASSED AWAY, THERE WAS A PERIOD WHEN HIS BROTHER TOOK OVER THE COMPANY AND THEN YOU DID.
YOU HAVE A CHAPTER IN YOUR BOOK.
THE CHAPTER IS TITLED, "FROM MRS. LEWIS TO MADAM CHAIR."
TALK ABOUT THAT TRANSITION.
WHAT YOU HAD TO DO AND HOW YOU FELT YOU WERE CAPABLE OF DOING THAT.
>> YES.
WELL FIRST OF ALL, MR. LEWIS HAD A PLAN THAT HIS BROTHER WOULD TAKE OVER AND THEY WOULD ELECT A CEO.
SO AFTER A YEAR -- BASICALLY IT TOOK A YEAR -- SIX MONTHS TO REALLY JUST GET MYSELF TOGETHER, BECAUSE IT WAS CATACLYSMIC HE DIED AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE.
WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GROW OLD TOGETHER.
SO I WILL ALWAYS BE GRATEFUL TO GENE, MY BROTHER-IN-LAW.
IN SPITE OF HIS GRIEF, HE TOOK OVER AS CEO.
IT WAS ALWAYS THE PLAN TO ELECT OR TO CHOOSE AN EXPERIENCED CEO.
WE WERE INTERVIEWING.
ALL OF THEM ARE WHITE.
NOT THAT I HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST CAUCASIANS.
THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE SOMETHING BIG.
WHEN I ASK THEM, CAN YOU MAKE IT SUCCESSFUL?
THE ANSWER WAS, I WILL TRY MY BEST.
IN MY MIND, TRY YOUR BEST?
WHAT IF IT FAILS?
WHY DID YOU DO THAT?
IN THE END, AFTER -- BEFORE THE AFTER PRAYER, IT WAS VERY CLEAR.
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MYSELF AND MY FAMILY.
TAKE IT OVER SO IF IT FAILS, IT'S MY FAULT.
NOT POINTING TO ANYBODY.
THREE FINGERS POINT AT ME.
IT'S BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN WISE ENOUGH TO CHOOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE BETTER THAN ME AND RUN IT TO MR. LEWIS' AIM.
THAT'S WHY I TOOK OVER.
>> YOU HAD GREAT SUCCESS.
YOU GREW ITS EARNINGS.
YOU DECIDED AS THE COMPANY DID TO NAVIGATE A SALE OF THE COMPANY.
CERTAINLY, IT WAS EXTRAORDINARILY SUCCESSFUL.
MY QUESTION TO YOU -- THIS TIES INTO WHY YOU WROTE THIS BOOK.
LET'S HAVE WOMEN HAVE THE SAME KIND OF SUCCESS.
AS YOU LOOK BACK ON IT, WITH THE CLARITY OF HINDSIGHT, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU BROUGHT TO THAT POSITION AS A WOMAN THAT ALLOWED YOU TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN YOUR SHEPHERDING OF THE COMPANY THROUGH THAT PERIOD OF TIME?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WAS MARRIED TO MR. LEWIS FOR 24 YEARS.
I HAVE BEEN A GOOD LISTENER.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T SAY MUCH, BUT I LISTEN.
>> THAT'S SUCH A GREAT SKILL, BY THE WAY.
I THINK AN UNDERRATED SKILL.
THE ABILITY TO LISTEN.
RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE TALKING WITH YOUR LOVED ONES AND TALKING TO MEN AND WOMEN.
YOU ARE A TEAM.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FIGHT AGAINST EACH OTHER.
YOU WILL SURELY FAIL.
A SPOUSE TO ONE ANOTHER, YOU ARE A TEAM.
I KNOW MY ROLE, BECAUSE HE IS THE ROCKET SHIP.
I HAVE TO LISTEN ELOQUENTLY SO IF THERE'S SOMETHING I COULD ADD, I COULD SAY SOMETHING.
I KNEW MORE OR LESS HIS GOALS.
NUMBER THREE, WHY WAS I SUCCESSFUL?
BECAUSE I USED COMMON SENSE.
WHEN I TOOK OVER, WE WERE CLOSE TO BANKRUPTCY.
SO WHAT DO YOU DO?
YOUR INCOME IS DOWN.
IT WAS THE WORST RECESSION IN EUROPE.
YOUR EXPENSES ARE SO HIGH.
COMMON SENSE, CUT EXPENSES, INCREASE INCOME.
FOR EXPENSES, I HAD TO LAY OFF HALF OF OUR CORPORATE STAFF.
FOR OUR GROWTH, I HIRED McKENZIE, BECAUSE I KNEW IT ANYWAY, ONE ASPECT OF THE GROCERY BUSINESS IN FRANCE WAS GROWING BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS.
SO YOU ENCOURAGE THAT.
YOU SELL THOSE THAT ARE NOT PERFORMING.
USING COMMON SENSE.
>> I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS SOMETIMES WHAT WE REALIZE IS COMMON SENSE IS NOT AS COMMON AS IT SHOULD BE.
WE OFTEN TIMES SEE THAT.
I WANT TO JUMP IN.
THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT YOU PUT IN THE END OF THE BOOK -- YOU HAVE FIVE INSIGHTS THAT YOU OFFER FOR PEOPLE.
I WON'T HAVE TIME TO GET TO ALL OF THEM.
I THINK THEY'RE IMPORTANT.
INSIGHTS YOU OFFER TO OTHER WOMEN, USING YOU AS A MODEL.
ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TALK ABOUT IS THAT WOMEN CAN BE POWERFUL WITHOUT EMULATING THE NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR OF MEN.
HOW DO WOMEN -- HOW SHOULD WOMEN BE DOING THAT?
>> I DON'T -- I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL WOMEN.
I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT MYSELF.
OKAY?
I WAS SUCCESSFUL.
I DON'T CURSE.
I DON'T HAVE TO SAY BLEEP, BLEEP, BLEEP WORDS.
WHY?
BECAUSE IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE.
YOU ACT ON WHAT IS EFFECTIVE.
I DON'T THINK CURSING IS EFFECTIVE.
ANYWAY, THAT'S WHAT I DID.
NUMBER TWO, YOU TREAT PEOPLE AS YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.
ALL RIGHT?
YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T -- YOU DON'T FIRE SOMEBODY WITH AN EMAIL.
WHEN I STARTED TO LAY OFF PEOPLE, I TALKED TO EACH ONE OF THEM.
I SAW TO IT THEY ARE IN A GOOD PLACE.
I GAVE THEM VERY GOOD SEPARATION PAY.
FOR OUR SUPPORT STAFF, I SAW TO IT THAT THEY ARE TRANSFERRED TO OTHER PLACES THAT NEED THEIR SKILLS.
IN OTHER WORDS, TO YOUR OWN SELF BE TRUE.
YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR GOAL IS.
SOMETIMES THE GOAL CHANGES.
BUT JUST KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING.
>> ONE OF YOUR INSIGHTS THAT TIES INTO THAT, YOU TALK ABOUT, BE FLEXIBLE IN SETTING YOUR GOALS.
WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT?
WE GOT ABOUT TWO MINUTES.
WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT?
>> NOT ONLY RUNNING THE COMPANY, BUT YOU KNOW IN MY OWN LIFE, I WAS GOING TO BE A NUN.
I WAS RAISED BY NUNS.
I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH A NUN.
MY MOTHER WAS VERY INSTRUCTIVE.
LOIDA, YOU ARE SECOND YEAR LAW SCHOOL.
YOU HAVE TWO MORE YEARS TO GO.
WHY DON'T YOU FINISH?
THE NOTRE DAME ALLOWS YOU TO WORK ACCORDING TO YOUR CAREER.
YOU ARE IN THE CONVERT, YOU ARE A LAWYER.
IF YOU GO OUT OF THE CONVERT, YOU ARE STILL A LAWYER.
YOUR MERCHANDISE IS IN YOUR HAND.
THAT'S ONE RULE.
YOU START SOMETHING, BETTER FINISH IT.
YOU KNOW, SOMETHING COMES ALONG, I FINISHED LAW, I WENT TO THE UNITED STATES.
THAT'S WHERE I MET MY HUSBAND, REGINALD LEWIS, ON A BLIND DATE.
YES, BE FLEXIBLE.
SEIZE THE MOMENT.
BE THERE AT THE PRESENT MOMENT.
USE YOUR HEAD, BUT FOLLOW YOUR HEART.
>> THAT'S ARE GREAT PIECES OF ADVICE THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN.
I GOT ABOUT A MINUTE HERE.
MY LAST QUESTION FOR YOU IS, WHAT DO YOU WANT?
ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT YOU WANT SOMEBODY TO COME AWAY FROM -- COME AWAY WITH AFTER THEY READ YOUR BOOK, WHAT WOULD IT BE?
>> OKAY.
I THINK FOR US WOMEN -- WELL, MEN, TOO -- KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
IF YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE NO GOOD, HEY, TOMORROW IS ANOTHER DAY.
YOU CAN START.
OKAY?
BE THE PERSON THAT YOU WANT TO BE, THE BEST VERSION OF YOURSELF.
BECAUSE IN MY FAITH, WE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN.
WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
DAUGHTERS OF GOD.
WE SHOULD BE LIKE THAT.
IN TERMS OF DRESSING UP, YOU DON'T DRESS LIKE A [ BLEEP ].
COMPORT YOURSELF PROPERLY.
HAVE THE BEST VERSION OF YOURSELF IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES.
THEN PROCEED, THREE THINGS, ON YOUR PERSONAL LEVEL.
ARE YOU EATING TOO MUCH?
ARE YOU OVERWEIGHT?
NUMBER TWO, ON YOUR POSITIVITY.
ARE YOU POSITIVE IN THINKING WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO SOMETHING?
YOU FAIL ALREADY.
ONCE YOU FAIL, YOU FAIL.
NUMBER THREE, SPIRITUALLY.
HAVE FAITH IN GOD.
>> THAT'S WONDERFUL ADVICE FOR ANYBODY DOING ANYTHING.
LOIDA, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
ONCE AGAIN, IT'S A BOOK IS A WONDERFUL READ.
IT'S CALLED HAVE ALL THE FUN: AN ASIAN AMERICAN STORY OF LOVE, MARRIAGE, MOTHERHOOD AND RUNNING A BILLION DOLLAR EMPIRE."
LOIDA LEWIS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
IT'S BEEN A DELIGHT TO TALK WITH YOU.
YOU BE WELL NOW.
>> THANK YOU.
IT'S ON AMAZON.COM.
>> TAKE CARE NOW.
>> THANK YOU, JACK.
>>> GOOD EVENING.
WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."
I'M JACK FORD.
THE NATION AND THE WORLD WERE SHOCKED BY THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY.
TWO DAYS LATER, THE NATION WAS SHOCKED YET AGAIN WHEN THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN, LEE HARVEY OSWALD WAS GUNNED DOWN BY JACK RUBY.
JACK RUBY'S MURDER TRIAL, RATHER THAN BEING THE SLAM DUNK YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED SINCE IT WAS WITNESSED BY TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE, TURNED OUT TO BE A CHAOTIC, THEATRICAL EVENT, RESULTING IN QUESTIONS, CONTROVERSIES AND CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT CONTINUE TO RESONATE TODAY.
NOW, A NEW BOOK BY BEST SELLING AUTHORS DAN ABRAMS AND DAVID FISHER TITLED "KENNEDY'S AVENGER: ASSASSINATION, CONSPIRACY, AND THE FORGOTTEN TRIAL OF JACK RUBY," TELLS THE STORY.
IT'S A DEEP DIVE INTO THE ISSUES, THE PERSONALITIES AND THE QUESTIONS THAT STILL REMAIN.
WE ARE DELIGHTED TO HAVE DAN ABRAMS NOW JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THERE BOOK.
AMONG SO MANY OTHER THINGS, THE CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT FOR ABC NEWS, MOST IMPORTANT FOR ME, A VERY GOOD FRIEND FOR MANY DECADES.
DAN, WELCOME.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> JACK, GREAT DO BE BACK WITH >> LET'S TALK ABOUT THERE BOOK NOW.
THIS IS THE FOURTH ONE THAT YOU HAVE DONE THAT LOOKS AT FAMOUS PERSONALITIES AND TRIALS THAT HELPED TO SHARE THE CONTOURS OF WHO THEY WERE.
IN MANY INSTANCES, TRIALS THAT FEW PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT.
YOU GET TO THIS CASE NOW, JACK RUBY.
INVOLVED THE DEATH OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY.
WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THIS STORY THAT MADE YOU SAY, OKAY, THIS IS THE ONE WE WANT TO TELL NOW?
>> WE HAD JUST FINISHED OUR THIRD BOOK ON JOHN ADAMS REPRESENTING THE BRITISH SOLDIERS IN THE BOSTON MASSACRE CASE.
WE HAD PREVIOUSLY DONE A SORT OF SURPRISINGLY UNKNOWN STORY WHERE TEDDY ROOSEVELT WAS SUED.
BEFORE THAT, THE LAST MAJOR CASE ABRAHAM LINCOLN HAD ARGUED AS A LAWYER.
ALL CASES THAT SOMEHOW BECOME A FOOTNOTE TO HISTORY INVOLVING PRESIDENTS.
DAVID FISHER AND I ARE TALKING ABOUT JOHN F. KENNEDY'S ASSASSINATION.
WHAT HAPPENED WITH JACK RUBY'S TRIAL?
BOTH LOOKED AT EACH OTHER.
HOW DO WE, YOU AND I, NOT KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN JACK RUBY'S TRIAL?
ME AS THE LEGAL GUY AND DAVID AS A HISTORIAN, LET'S DIG IN A LITTLE BIT HERE.
EVERY PIECE WE BROUGHT OUT OF IT, WE SAID, THIS TRIAL IS SO RICH.
THERE IS SO MUCH HERE FROM CELEBRITY LAWYERS, CELEBRITY WITNESSES, THE JAILBREAK THAT OCCURS DURING THE TRIAL.
THIS EFFECTIVELY BECAME THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION TRIAL.
MANY OF THE CONSPIRACIES CAME OUT OF THIS.
WE GOTTA DO THIS ONE.
THE ONE THREAD HAS BEEN THAT THERE'S A TRANSCRIPT OF THE TRIAL THAT SERVES AS THE HEART OF THE BOOK.
>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS BOOK -- I WAS IN GRAMMAR SCHOOL.
I ACTUALLY SAW THE LIVE COVERAGE OF JACK RUBY GUNNING DOWN LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
I WAS ASTONISHED BY IT.
NOT BEING SURE WHAT I WAS SEEING AS A GRAMMAR SCHOOL STUDENT.
I THOUGHT I KNEW A LOT ABOUT THIS CASE.
BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT AS WITH YOUR OTHER BOOKS, I GO THROUGH THIS CONSTANTLY SAYING, WOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.
I TURN THE PAGE AND, OH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT EITHER.
THERE ARE GREAT THINGS YOU HAVE DISCOVERED HERE.
A QUICK RUNDOWN OF SOME OF THE PERSONALITIES INVOLVED.
WHO IS JACK RUBY?
YOU MENTIONED CELEBRITY LAWYERS.
THE JUDGE INVOLVED.
TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT THEM.
>> JACK RUBY WAS A LOW LEVEL BUSINESSOWNER, MEANING HE OWNED SORT OF A STRIP CLUB.
I SAY STRIP MEANING, IN TODAY'S -- IT WOULD BE VIEWED AS TAME.
BACK IN THE DAY, IT WAS SEEDY.
A LOT OF COPS WENT THERE.
HE WAS VERY CLOSE WITH POLICE OFFICERS.
ALWAYS WANTED TO BE RELEVANT.
WAS A BIG MOUTH.
THOUGHT OF HIMSELF AS A TOUGH GUY.
WAS INTO BEING JEWISH AND THE FACT THAT HE WANTED TO SHOW THAT JEWS CAN BE TOUGH GUYS.
ONE OF HIS BEST FRIENDS WAS BARNIE ROSS, THE WORLD FAMOUS BOXER, WHO ACTUALLY ENDED UP TESTIFYING IN THE TRIAL ON BEHALF OF RUBY.
THE PROSECUTOR IN THE CASE WAS HENRY WADE OF ROE V. WADE FAME.
HE WAS A CLASSIC WELL LIKED TEXAS PROSECUTOR.
ASSISTED BY ANOTHER SIMILAR -- NAMED BILL ALEXANDER.
THE DEFENSE THOUGH IS KIND OF WHERE THE ACTION WAS HAPPENING, SO TO SPEAK.
IN MELVIN BELLI.
AT THE TIME, HE WAS ARGUABLY THE MOST FAMOUS LAWYER IN AMERICA.
HE DIDN'T TYPICALLY DO CRIMINAL TRIALS.
HE HAD DONE SOME, INCLUDING SOME SIMILAR, HE WOULD ARGUE TO THIS ONE.
BUT HE WAS A SHOWMAN.
HE LOVED TO PUT ON A SHOW.
THIS IS A GUY WHO -- HE DID A LOT OF PERSONAL INJURY CASES WITH DEMONSTRATIVE EVIDENCE.
HE WANTED THIS TRIAL BECAUSE IT WAS THE MOST FAMOUS TRIAL IN AMERICA AT THE TIME.
SO YOU HAD THESE CHARACTERS WITH BELLI AND RUBY, PROSECUTORS, A LOT OF THE WITNESSES, THAT MADE THIS -- HAD ALL THE MAKINGS OF A BIG STORY.
THE THING THAT SHOCKED US MOST IN LOOKING AT ALL THE STUFF FOR THIS CASE WAS THAT LITERALLY WITH THE WORLD'S MEDIA AT THIS CASE -- EFFECTIVELY THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION, EVERYONE IS THERE -- THERE'S A JAILBREAK THAT OCCURS FOUR STORIES ABOVE WITH A GUY WHO IS LITERALLY IN JAIL AT THE COURTHOUSE, CREATES A GUN OUT OF SOAP, TAKES HOSTAGES AND WALKS THEM RIGHT PAST THE MEDIA WITH THIS GUN AT THIS WOMAN'S BACK.
YOU HAVE MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA CALLING IN SAYING, THERE'S A JAILBREAK.
THE OTHER SIDE SAYING, WHAT?
YOU ARE COVERING THE RUBY CASE.
I KNOW.
THERE'S AN JAILBREAK GOING ON IN FRONT OF ME.
THAT'S THE SORT OF THING THAT WAS HAPPENING DURING THIS TRIAL.
>> YOU MENTION THAT AND YOU WRITE IN YOUR BOOK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT HAD GOTTEN REPEATED WARNINGS FROM THE FBI ABOUT POSSIBLE ATTACKS ON LEE HARVEY OSWALD AND THEY SAID, WE GOT THIS.
WE GOT THIS.
UNTIL THEY DIDN'T.
AS YOU DESCRIBE IT HERE.
LET ME TALK ABOUT THE TRIAL.
AGAIN, MOST PEOPLE I'M SURE WOULD HAVE SAID, HE DID THIS ON LIVE TELEVISION.
WHAT KIND OF A DEFENSE COULD YOU POSSIBLY HAVE?
AND YET AS YOU MENTIONED, YOU HAD A THEATRICAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY.
YOU HAD SOME BIG -- BIGGER THAN LIFE PERSONALITIES IN DALLAS.
AND YOU HAD A TRIAL WHERE THERE WAS A DEFENSE.
WHAT WAS IT FOR JACK RUBY?
>> WHAT THE DEFENSE COULD HAVE BEEN WOULD HAVE BEEN THE MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD DEFENSE, WOULD HAVE BEEN TO SAY, DID IT, KIND OF LOST IT FOR A MOMENT, SAW THAT SMIRK ON HIS FACE.
I LOVED JOHN KENNEDY.
IN A MOMENT, I JUST -- I SHOT HIM AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
IF THAT HAD BEEN HIS DEFENSE, AND THE JURY BELIEVED IT -- WHICH I THINK THEY PROBABLY WOULD HAVE -- HE COULD HAVE BEEN OUT IN LESS THAN FIVE YEARS.
>> BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE WOULD THINK, WAIT A MINUTE, THAT'S A MURDER.
BUT IN TEXAS AT THE TIME, MURDER WITHOUT MALICE -- >> CORRECT.
>> THAT KIND OF A MINIMAL SENTENCE?
>> IT WAS EFFECTIVELY LIKE MANSLAUGHTER AS WE KNOW IT TODAY.
THE SENTENCE FOR THAT IS SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TWO TO FIVE YEARS FOR MURDER WITHOUT MALICE.
IF YOU GO FOR THE WHOLE THING, YOU COULD GET CONVICTED AND GET THE DEATH PENALTY.
MELVIN BELLI DECIDED HE WANTED TO PURSUE AN INSANITY DEFENSE.
THE DEFENSE WAS JACK RUBY SUFFERED AN EPILEPTIC SEIZURE THAT PUT HIM INTO A FUGUE STATE.
HE COULD NOT REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED.
HE HAD NO MEMORY OF THE EVENT ITSELF, WHICH IF THE JURY BELIEVED IT, WOULD BE NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY.
HE WENT FOR IT ALL AS OPPOSED TO GOING FOR THE MORE MEASURED DEFENSE, WHICH HIS INITIAL ATTORNEY, TOM HOWARD, ENCOURAGED HIM TO DO.
>> GIVE US A SENSE.
YOU GO INTO IT IN GREAT DETAIL IN THE BOOK.
PEOPLE NEED TO FOLLOW THAT AND TO UNDERSTAND.
TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE CONTROVERSY, SOME OF THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT BEGAN TO EMERGE DURING THE COURSE OF THIS CASE.
>> I THINK A LOT WERE BASED ON QUESTIONS THAT WENT UNANSWERED.
AT ONE POINT THE DEFENSE SAYS TO THE PROSECUTION, WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO STIPULATE LEE HARVEY OSWALD ACTED ALONE.
WE ARE NOT STIPULATING TO ANYTHING.
WHY?
>> ALL THE MEDIA -- >> TOTALLY RIGHT.
ANOTHER CASE WHERE AN FBI AGENT WAS QUESTIONED.
HE WAS ASKED, DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF A LINK BETWEEN OSWALD AND RUBY?
OBJECTION.
QUESTION GOES UNANSWERED.
ANOTHER MISSING PIECE IN THE POTENTIAL CONSPIRACY LINK.
THERE WERE PIECES OF CONVERSATIONS THAT SOMEONE WOULD OVERHEAR WITH RUBY ON THE PHONE ON THE SATURDAY BEFORE HE KILLED OSWALD WHICH SOUNDED LIKE HE WAS PLOTTING.
RIGHT?
OF COURSE, LATER ON WE LEARNING TO A RADIO REPORTER.
REGARDLESS, AT THAT MOMENT, THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING THEY MIGHT HAVE SEEN SOMETHING, ET CETERA.
THIS TRIAL, I THINK, IN MANY WAYS FUELLED A LOT OF THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
>> ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT HERE.
QUICKLY, HOW OFTEN DID PEOPLE HEAR FROM JACK RUBY BEFORE HE DIED ABOUT THIS?
>> HE SPOKE ABOUT THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES.
NOT ONLY DID HE SPEAK TO THE WARREN COMMISSION, WHICH WAS INVESTIGATING ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED AT LENGTH, HE DEMANDED A LIE DETECTOR TEST.
HE KEPT SAYING TO EARL WARREN HIMSELF, SIR, I NEED YOU TO GET ME A LIE DETECTOR TEST.
OKAY.
WE NEED YOU TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS.
WARREN ACTUALLY GOT HIM A LIE DETECTOR TEST, WHICH HE REGRETTED LATER.
JACK RUBY THEN SAT SEPARATELY FOR A LIE DETECTOR, ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS.
FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOU HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE A WORD THAT CAME OUT OF JACK RUBY'S MOUTH.
>> THAT WAS ANOTHER THING I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.
JACK RUBY SAY, LET ME TELL YOU MY SIDE OF THE STORY.
THERE ARE SO MANY GREAT PASSAGES AND REVELATIONS IN THIS BOOK.
IT READS LIKE FICTION, BUT WE KNOW IT'S TRUE.
AGAIN, WONDERFUL JOB BY YOU PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.
BOOK IS CALLED "KENNEDY'S AVENGER: ASSASSINATION, CONSPIRACY, AND THE FORGOTTEN TRIAL OF JACK RUBY".
DAN, GREAT WORK.
ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.
YOU BE WELL.
>> JACK FORD, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
APPRECIATE IT.
>> TAKE CARE.
♪♪ >> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE