JIM: THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS A DATE IN COURT TO ANSWER FOR ONE OF HIS SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS.
HUNDREDS OF FACULTY MEMBERS AT BROWN UNIVERSITY ARE CALLING FOR CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST PROTESTING STUDENTS TO BE DROPPED.
>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I'’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.
I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.
JIM: JOINING US ON THE PANEL, PROVIDENCE JOURNAL REPORTER, AMY RUSSO.
LOU PULNER.
AND PABLO RODRIGUEZ.
HELLO AND WELCOME, I AM JIM HUMMEL.
WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING PART OF YOUR WEEKEND WITH US.
PETER NERONHA HAS BEEN ACTIVE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, PARTICULARLY ON X PREVIOUSLY KNOWN AS TWITTER.
JUDGE PRESIDING OVER A THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD SOME MUSINGS ABOUT.
THE JUDGE SUPPORTED -- THE JUDGE CALLED FOR PETER NERONHA TO APPEAR BEFORE HIM.
HOW UNUSUAL IS THIS AT HOW SERIOUS?
LOU: IT IS VERY UNUSUAL.
THIS IS HIS LAST GO AROUND FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL.
THE QUESTION IS IF HE IS GOING TO BE UPGRADED IN CHAMBERS OR "THAT'’S FOR OPEN -- OR OPEN COURT.
A DEFENDANT CAN ASK FOR A BENCH TRIAL WHICH MEANS NO JURY AND THE STATE CANNOT OBJECT.
IN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM, BOTH PARTIES HAVE TO AGREE THAT THERE WILL BE NO JURY.
IN THIS CASE, IT WAS JURY WAIVED AND JUST A BENCH TRIAL.
WHAT PETER NERONHA DID WAS INTIMATED THAT PEOPLE WHO GO BEFORE PROCTOR JEANNIE WAY THAT YOUR BECAUSE THEY GIVE FAVORABLE RESULTS.
JIM: LIKE JUDGE SHOPPING.
HE INDICATED SOME JUDGES JUST DON'’T HAVE JURY TRIALS.
HE WAS ATTACKING THE INTEGRITY OF THE JUDGE WHICH I THINK WAS A MISTAKE.
I THINK THE JUDGE HAS A LOT OF INTEGRITY.
TWO, HE HAS DONE HUNDREDS OF JURY TRIALS.
LAST WEEK HE ALSO FOUND AFTER A BENCH TRIAL HE THOUGHT A GUY GUILTY ON EIGHT COUNTS OF DRUG TRAFFICKING.
LET ME SUGGEST THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'’S CHOICE OF WORDS WERE INJUDICIOUS.
JIM: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
PABLO: I THINK THIS IS THE TRUMP EFFECT BEING DISPLAYED.
POLITICIANS FEEL AT THIS SENSE THAT HE CAN GO ON TWITTER AND AND SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS AND IT HELPS HIM.
IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT SITUATION WHEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS CRITICIZING A JUDGE AND INTIMATING THAT HE IS CORRUPT.
IN MY OPINION IT MAKES IT WORSE WHEN THERE IS A REACTION.
MOST OF THESE TWEETS PEOPLE TO SEE.
JIM: BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE AREN'’T ON TWITTER.
PABLO: THAT IS RIGHT.
BUT WHEN YOU MAKE A REACTION AND IT MAKES THE NEWS, EVERYBODY GOES TO READ THE TWEET.
IT DOES NOT HELP EITHER PARTY WHEN YOU CREATE A CONTROVERSY WHEN IN REALITY IT SHOULD JUST BE LET'’S GO.
LOU: WE HAVE RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT GUIDED NOT JUST BY THE LAWYERS BUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND EVEN JUDGES.
YOU CANNOT DISPARAGE THE LEGAL SYSTEM.
YOU CANNOT DISPARAGE OTHER LAWYERS AND CANNOT DISPARAGE A JUDGE.
THAT IS WHAT WE GOT HERE.
PABLO: JOE'’S YOU HAVE A KISS BEFORE.
JIM: THE LARGER ISSUE IS SO MANY MORE PUBLIC FIGURES USING TWITTER.
WE ARE ALL ON IT ALL THE TIME AS REPORTERS.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, IS NOT HARD TO NOTICE THAT HE HAS BEEN PUTTING MORE OUT.
AMY: ABSOLUTELY, YES.
FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A JOURNALIST, IT IS UNUSUAL EVERY TIME YOU INTERACT WITH A PUBLIC OFFICIAL, TRY TO GET AN INTERVIEW.
USUALLY THE MIDDLEMAN IS A SPOKESPERSON AND IT IS USUALLY THAT PERSON WHO CRACKS THEIR TWEETS.
IT IS CLEAR PETER NERONHA HAS BEEN CRAFTING HIS OWN TWEETS.
HE TWEETED THAT THE PUBLIC DESERVES DIRECTLY TO HEAR FROM HIM.
I THINK IT IS AN UNCONVENTIONAL APPROACH.
JIM: IT WILL BE UP TO THE VOTERS HE SAID REPEATEDLY I AM NOT GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR.
LOU: HE IS DOING -- PABLO: HE IS DOING FUNDRAISERS FOR ONE PURPOSE -- FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
HE IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.
HE IS DOING THESE TWEETS TO RAISE HIS PROFILE.
LOU: ATTORNEY GENERAL NAVONA HAS DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB OVER THE COURSE OF HIS CAREER.
THIS IS A BLURB.
IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN BUT I DON'’T WANT TO LEAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT HE HAS NOT BEEN GREAT.
HE HAS SETTLED HUGE CASES FOR A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR THE STATE.
I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.
JIM: FROM THE REPORTER'’S PERSPECTIVE, ACCESSIBLE.
I HAVE NEVER HAD A SITUATION WHERE I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CALL AND GET HIM ON.
THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN HIS PREDECESSOR.
WE DON'’T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO THE JUDGE'’S MIND, YOU CAN PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER, HOW DO YOU SEE THIS PLAYING OUT?
WHAT ARE THE POTENTIAL SCENARIOS?
LOU: THERE IS A CODE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
HE COULD TALK WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHETHER IT IS IN OPEN COURT OR CHAMBERS, WE DON'’T KNOW.
THE JUDGE COULD REFER HIM TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION OR THE DISCIPLINARY COUNCIL OF RHODE ISLAND SAYING HE VIOLATED THE RULES, HE DISPARAGE THE COURT SYSTEM AND HE SHOULD BE CENSURED.
JIM: FINAL THOUGHT ON THAT?
PABLO: I THINK THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAVE AND IT WILL BE PUBLIC.
THERE IS NO WAY HE IS CALLING HIM INTO HIS CHAMBERS SECRETLY AND QUIETLY.
JIM: NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
PABLO: NO, NO.
THIS IS GOING TO BE PUBLIC AND UGLY.
JIM: PABLO IS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD HERE AT RHODE ISLAND PBS.
YOU HAVE BEEN ON "LIVELY" LONGER THAN YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE BOARD.
LET'’S GO ON TO OUR NEXT TOPIC, A LOT HAS BEEN GOING ON WITH ISRAEL AND GAZA SINCE THE WAR BEGAN.
IT IS HITTING HOME HERE.
WE HAVE NOT COVERED THIS MUCH BUT WE THINK THIS WOULD BE A GOOD TIME.
20 BROWN UNIVERSITY STUDENTS WERE ARRESTED FOR TRESPASSING AFTER A PROTEST THAT GOT OUT OF HAND.
PROVIDENCE POLICE WERE INVOLVED.
200 FACULTY MEMBERS HAVE SIGNED ON AND SAID WE THINK THE CHARGES SHOULD BE DROPPED.
BRING US UP TO DATE.
AMY: FOR ANY VIEWERS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN KEEPING UP, 20 JEWISH STUDENTS HAD A SIT IN AT UNIVERSITY HALL AND WARNED MULTIPLE TIMES THAT THEY NEEDED TO LEAVE.
KID CAME PAST 5:00 AND THEY WERE ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH TRESPASSING.
A LETTER CAME OUT FROM OVER 200 FACULTY AND THEY HAVE ASKED FOR NO CONSEQUENCES FOR THOSE STUDENTS.
THEY WANT CHARGES DROPPED AND THEY WANT CONVERSATION REOPENED ON STUDENTS'’ DEMANDS.
THEY WANT THE UNIVERSITY TO PROMOTE A CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA AND THEY WANT DIVESTMENT ON BEHALF OF THE UNIVERSITY ON ANY WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS.
A 2020 REPORT THAT CAME FROM FACULTY AND STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY IDENTIFIED COMPANIES LIKE GOING, RAYTHEON -- BOEING AND RAYTHEON AS WHAT UNIVERSITY WAS INVESTING IN.
JIM: THAT IS POLICY AND POLITICS POPPING UP AGAINST CRIMINAL CHARGES.
YOU WERE THE FACULTY OF THE MEDICAL SCHOOL, BUT WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
PABLO: WHAT DAMAGE COULD 20 STUDENTS DO IN A BUILDING THAT CLOSES AT 5:00?
NOTHING.
THIS WAS AN OVERREACTION.
JUST LET THE KIDS STAY THERE AND DO THEIR PROTEST.
UNIVERSITIES ARE THE PLACE WHERE THESE KINDS OF EXPRESSIONS ARE MADE.
THEY HAVE A POINT TO MAKE AND IT IS WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS SITUATION.
THIS SITUATION IS NOW WORSE FOR THE ADMINISTRATION BY ARRESTING STUDENTS.
NOW THEY HAVE A REAL PICKLE TRYING TO CLEAN UP A SITUATION THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED MUCH MORE DELICATELY BY JUST STAYING IF YOU WANT TO STAY, STAY.
WE WILL HAVE A POLICEMAN TO MAKE SURE THERE IS NO DAMAGE TO THE BUILDING.
THEY WERE NOT SETTING THE BUILDING ON FIRE, THEY WERE NOT DESTROYING IT.
THEY WERE EXPRESSING THEIR POINT OF VIEW.
IT IS A POINT OF VIEW THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD OR HAVE -- AND THE WORLD ARE HAVING.
LOU: CLEANUP ON AISLE SEVEN.
IF I WAS THE ADMINISTRATION, I WOULD HAVE BROUGHT IN CHICK-FIL-A AND FED THEM.
AGAIN, THEY HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH TRESPASS AND THE PRESIDENT HAS TO MAKE A DECISION THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO GO FORWARD.
ONLY BROWN UNIVERSITY CAN.
JIM: IS IT IS NOT IN THE PROVIDENCE POLICE NOW?
THEY WERE THE ARRESTING AUTHORITY, WERE THEY NOT?
LOU: YOU WILL NOT SEE MANY POLICE DEPARTMENTS TAKE CHARGES AND JUST LET IT GO.
JIM: THAT IS THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE.
IN TERMS OF THE LEGAL PROCESS, BROWN WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE PROVIDENCE POLICE PROACTIVELY AND SAY WE WANT YOU TO DROP THESE CHARGES.
THE POLICE DON'’T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO THAT.
LOU: THEY DON'’T BUT THEY WILL.
I HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED FOR A LONG TIME, YOU GET A LOT OF DOMESTIC ABUSE CHARGES.
JIM: YOU HAVE TO ARREST.
LOU: BUT YOU DON'’T HAVE TO PROSECUTE.
THE SPOUSE WILL LAWYER UP AND AND THE CASES GET DISMISSED.
THE REALITY IS THAT PROVIDENCE DOES NOT WANT TO PROSECUTE THESE KIDS.
IT IS A WASTE OF THEIR TIME.
WHEN IT IS ASKED OF THEM TO DROP THE CHARGES, THEY WILL.
DO I THINK THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN?
ABSOLUTELY.
THE QUESTION THEN IS SHOULD THE UNIVERSITY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR -- EXPUNGE THEIR RECORD?
ONCE YOU HAVE BEEN CHARGED AND EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE BEEN DISMISSED, IT STILL SITS THERE.
JIM: YOU HAVE HAD A HARD TIME FINDING OUT WHAT BROWN IS GOING TO DO.
THE FACULTY MEMBERS SAID LET'’S DO THIS, IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A BROWN IS AT THAT POINT.
AMY: NOT AT ALL.
ON THURSDAY, A CAMPUS SAFETY OFFICER ACTUALLY DROPPED OFF THESE CASE PACKETS WITH THE PROVIDENCE POLICE'’S EXECUTION UNIT AND THEY HAVE -- PROSECUTION UNIT AND THEY HAVE DOCUMENTS AND POLICE REPORTS AND SUPPORTING DETAILS.
IT DOES NOT LOOK AS OF THIS WEEK THAT THE SCHOOL IS GOING TO MAKE AN EFFORT TO DROP THE CHARGES.
I HAVE ASKED A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WITHIN THE COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE REPEATEDLY, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE DO HAS CLEAR THIS UP, WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IT IS WHETHER TO MOVE FORWARD.
IF THEY WERE NOT TO MOVE FORWARD, WHO MAKES THE CHOICE?
TO CONTACT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT?
NO CLARIFICATION.
JIM: YOU DON'’T THINK THE ARRESTS WERE RIGHT AND SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED.
NOW TO GO IN AND SAID YOU WERE ARRESTED AND SAY LET'’S DROP THIS.
OF A YOUNER GENERATION, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'’T REALIZ THE INTERNET IS FOREVER AND THIS COULD BE ON THEIR RECORD.
YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
DO YOU THINK ANY OF THEM THOUGHT WE ARE GETTING ARRESTED, IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL?
PABLO: -- WAS ARRESTED WHEN HE WAS AT BROWN.
IT DID NOT HOLD HIM BACK TO BE AT THE TOP OF THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.
THIS IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT THEIR CAREERS.
IT IS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING.
WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES?
THEY WILL BE MORE PROTEST.
IF THESE STUDENTS ARE CHARGED, THERE WILL BE BIGGER PROTESTS, BIGGER VIOLATIONS OF THE LAW, AND THEN THE ADMINISTRATION'’S 20 FIND THEMSELVES IN A BIGGER ISSUE AND A BIGGER PROBLEM WITH MORE PEOPLE VIOLATING THE UNIVERSITY'’S RULES TO SUPPORT THE STUDENTS.
IT IS A CATCH-22.
YOU CANNOT WIN BY TRICKING THEM.
LOU: TO PUT A BUTTON ON THIS, IF THE KIDS WERE PROSECUTED, THEY WOULD RECEIVE THE LATEST SENTENCE POSSIBLE WHICH IS A FILING.
IF YOU BEHAVE YOURSELF AND STAY OUT OF TROUBLE FOR A YEAR, THAT RECORD GETS DISMISSED AND DESTROYED.
IT IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT THEIR FUTURES.
JIM: A FILING, BUT NOT AN EXPUNGEMENT.
LOU: NO.
JIM: WHEN SOMEONE IS GOING TO LOOK, AND WE WILL GET INTO THIS ABOUT HARVARD KIDS AND JOBS BEING PULLED, IT DOESN'’T MEAN IT DIDN'’T HAPPEN.
IT JUST MEANS WHEN YOU SAY DO YOU HAVE A CLEAN CRIMINAL RECORD A YEAR FROM NOW, YOU CAN SAY YES I DO.
LOU: I HAVE A CLEAN CRIMINAL RECORD.
IT WILL NOT BE ON THE PORTAL PEOPLE CAN ACCESS.
IT IS ALMOST CHEAPER FOR THEM TO LET IT GO THROUGH.
PABLO: IT WILL BE ON TWITTER.
JIM: X.
THERE IS A LARGER ISSUE ACROSS THESE CAMPUSES, THE ADMINISTRATIONS ARE IN IT UP SPOT.
YOU HAVE PALESTINIAN STUDENTS, YOU HAVE IS REALLY STUDENTS, SOME HAVE TRIED TO THREAD THE NEEDLE BUT THEY HAVE SOME BIG DONORS THAT DON'’T LIKE THAT.
AMY: I CANNOT SAY I AM UP TO SPEED ON WHAT IS GOING ON OUTSIDE OF THE PROVIDENCE BUBBLE.
I FEEL LIKE BROWN HAS HAD A HARD TIME TRYING TO GET ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS TRYING TO ESCAPE CRITICISM, WHETHER IT BE FROM PEOPLE SAYING THESE KIDS HAVE TO LEARN THERE IS A CONSEQUENCE AND THEN FROM OTHER PEOPLE WHO SAY IS THIS REALLY THAT BIG OF A DEAL?
YOU ARE RIGHT, ESPECIALLY ELITE COLLEGE CAMPUSES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
YOU ARE SEEING A LOT OF THESE CLINICAL TENSIONS PLAY OUT AT SCHOOL AND ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY'’RE GOING TO RESPOND.
SOMETIMES SILENCE IS A RESPONSE IN AND OF ITSELF.
JIM: IT SEEMS LIKE SOME OF THESE ARE IN A NO WIN SITUATION BUT MAYBE THEY SHOULD TAKE A STAND.
LOU: A LOT OF STUDENTS FROM HARVARD ARE BEING REJECTED FOR JOBS.
JIM: PREMIER LOB JOBS.
LOU: AT THE BIG FIRMS IN THE CITY.
THEY SIGNED A PETITION AND THEY ALL HAVE BEEN REJECTED BY THE FIRMS AGREES TO HIRE THEM.
THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR ACTIONS.
PABLO: WAS THERE A PROBLEM WHEN UNIVERSITIES DIVESTED FROM SOUTH AFRICA BECAUSE OF APARTHEID?
THERE WAS NOT BECAUSE THERE WAS UNANIMITY OF IDEAS AROUND APARTHEID AND COLLEGES WOULD MAKE A STATEMENT.
WHEN IT COMES TO ISRAEL AND PALESTINE, WE HAVE LOST THE NUANCE OF THIS SITUATION.
IF YOU SUPPORT ISRAEL'’S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF, YOU ARE ALL OF A SUDDEN ANTI-PALESTINE.
IF YOU SUPPORT A CEASE FIRE TO PROVIDE HUMANITARIAN HELP TO MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE AND TO STOP THE KILLING, YOU ARE SUPPORTING,'’S.
THERE IS NO NUANCE.
YOU CAN HAVE THOSE TWO THOUGHTS AT THE SAME TIME.
YES, ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF.
BUT PALESTINIANS HAVE A RIGHT TO LIFE AND A RIGHT TO A COUNTRY AND A RIGHT TO CONTROL THEIR OWN WATER.
ME ABOUT THE WHOLE THING.
PEOPLE DON'’T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE NUANCE THAT BOTH THANKS CAN HAPPEN AT THE SAME TIME.
THAT IS WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN -- THE NEEDLE HE IS TRYING TO THREAD.
HE IS STILL HAVING TROUBLE.
LOU: TOO MANY PEOPLE THINK IF YOU ARE PRO-PALESTINIAN YOU ARE PRO-HAMAS.
THAT IS NOT TRUE.
BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE PRO-PALESTINIAN WHO ARE PRO-HAMAS.
THE PALESTINIANS ELECTED, STU RUN THEIR GOVERNMENT FOR THEM -- ELECTED,'’S -- HAMAS TO RUN THEIR GOVERNMENT FOR THEM.
JIM: MY GAIL SANCHEZ WHO WAS ON GOVERNOR MCKEE'’S STAFF WAS ON A PROGRAM -- YOU HAD A CHANCE TO CATCH UP WITH HIM.
AMY: BOTH THE COUNSELOR AND THAT'’S THE COUNCILMAN AND THE GOVERNOR.
COUNCILMAN SANCHEZ WAS DOWNTOWN WHICH HAS BEEN A SITE OF A LOT OF POLITICAL ACTION.
LAST WEEK THERE WAS A PROTEST OUTSIDE.
JIM: HE WAS WORKING IN GOVERNOR MCKEE'’S OFFICE, SAYING THINGS NOT ON PAR WITH WHAT GOVERNOR MCKEE WAS THINKING.
HE GOT LET GO.
AMY: RIGHT.
I'’M -- IN ADDITION TO WORKING IN THE CONSTITUENT AFFAIRS OFFICE FOR GOVERNOR MCKEE, HE WAS TWEETING HIS OPINIONS ABOUT THE ISRAEL GAZA SITUATION.
HE SAID THAT THE U.S. WAS AIDING IN GENOCIDE AND CALLED FOR A CEASE-FIRE.
THAT PUT THINGS OVER THE TOP FOR GOVERNOR MCKEE.
SANCHEZ SAYS HE WAS TOLD BY GOVERNOR MCKEE'’S OFFICE TO TONY THANKS TAMMY FOR HE WAS FIRED.
HE FELT HE DID THINGS DOWN AND THEN HE WAS LET GO ANYWAY.
WHEN I CAUGHT UP WITH HIM, HE HAD A PALESTINIAN FLAG DRAPED OVER HIS SHOULDERS AND INDICATED THIS IS HIS TIME TO SPEAK OUT.
HE SAID HE DOES HAVE SUPPORT FROM HIS COUNCIL COLLEAGUES AND THAT IS THE SITUATION.
JIM: BUT AT THIS POINT NO JOB.
AMY: NOT IN THE GOVERNOR'’S OFFICE.
PABLO: THEY SAID THEY WANTED HIM TO DELETE THE TWEET, REMOVE IT FROM THE RECORD.
WE HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEECH.
YOUR RIGHT TO SPEECH DOES NOT END BECAUSE YOU HAVE A JOB IN THE GOVERNMENT.
THIS COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED SO MUCH BETTER.
MY GAIL -- MIGUEL HAS 1500 FOLLOWERS ON X.
IF THEY DID NOT FIRE HIM AND JUST SAID TONE IT DOWN, DON'’T PULL ANYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT GOING FORWARD BECAUSE YOU HAVE A JOB THAT REPRESENTS THE GOVERNOR , THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE END OF IT.
NOW HE IS ON NATIONAL NEWS COME ON THE WASHINGTON POST, EVERYWHERE.
IT DOES NOT HELP THE CAUSE OF THE GOVERNOR.
JIM: IT IS ALMOST LIKE BACK IN THE DAY, SOMETHING WAS SAID, PEOPLE WOULD BE LIKE WHY DIDN'’T THE CELEBRITY FILED A LIABLE SUIT?
ONCE THE SUIT GETS FILED, THEN IT BECOMES A BIG DEAL AND EVERYBODY REPORTS ON IT.
AT THE SAME TIME, HE IS AN AT WILL EMPLOYEE.
LOU: EXACTLY.
IN RHODE ISLAND, THE LAW IS UNLESS YOU HAVE A CONTRACT, YOU ARE AN AT WILL EMPLOYEE WHICH MEANS YOU CAN BE FIRED AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON AT ALL.
VERY SIMPLY PUT, HE WAS AN AT WILL EMPLOYEE.
HERE'’S THE KICKER.
THIS IS WHERE I THINK THE GOVERNMENT GETS LEGAL COUNSEL.
HE SAID SANCHEZ WAS NOT FIRED FOR THE CONTENT OF WHAT HE SAID BUT THE DISTRACTION BECAUSE FOR MY OFFICE.
HE IS NOT SAYING FREE SPEECH IS WHAT GOT YOU IN TROUBLE, IT IS THAT IN MY CONSTITUENT AFFAIRS OFFICE, YOU WERE A HUGE DISTRACTION.
JIM: DO YOU SNIFF A LAWYER DRAFTING THAT?
THIS IS A HUGE DISTRACTION NOW.
PABLO: IT HAS GOTTEN WORSE.
JIM: LET'’S DO OUTRAGES AND KUDOS.
PABLO: THE DEATH OF ONE'’S IN THE ISRAEL PALESTINIAN SITUATION.
I THINK IT IS ATROCIOUS PEOPLE ARE RIPPING OFF THE SIDES OF KIDNAPPED PEOPLE IN ISRAEL.
THAT IS NOT SUGAR HUMANITY.
THAT DOES NOT SHOW YOUR EMPATHY.
THAT SHOWS THAT YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE TERRORISTS.
WHEN YOU BID THOSE SIGNS AND RIP THE HEART OF THE PEOPLE -- RID OF THOSE SIGNS AND RIP THE HEART OF THE PEOPLE -- RIP THOSE SIGNS AND RIP.
THE HEART OF THE PEOPLE I DON'’T KNOW HOW YOU CAN BE A SUPPORTER OF HUMAN RIGHTS FOR PALESTINIANS AND AT THE SAME TIME RIP THOSE SIGNS.
JIM: WHAT DID YOU HAVE?
AMY: A KUDOS FOR A LOCAL STORY, THE PROVIDENCE STREET COALITION IS A GROUP THAT ADVOCATES FOR SHARED STREETS, SAFETY FOR PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS.
THEY GOT A BUNCH OF DATA, 13 YEARS WORTH.
THEY FOUGHT THE STATE FOR IT AND RESTATE REJECTED THEIR REQUEST.
JIM: YOU ARE LIKE WELCOME TO MY WORLD.
AMY: EXACTLY.
I DID THE SAME THING LAST YEAR WHEN TRYING TO GET SIMILAR DATA.
IT IS CRASH OR DATA THAT SHOWS THE MOST DANGEROUS AREAS FOR PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS.
I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A GREAT RESOURCE FOR POLICYMAKERS AND JOURNALISTS LIKE MYSELF.
THIS GROUP SHARED THE LINK ON TWITTER FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SEE IT, ON X.
IT IS FABULOUS.
JIM: IN RHODE ISLAND, YOU TALK ABOUT A LANDMARK THAT WAS THERE PRETTIER SICKO, TWITTER IS GOING TO TAKE A WILD TO DIE.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE?
LOU: MAYOR OF NEW YORK ERIC ADAMS ANNOUNCED THEY ARE DOWN 3000 POLICE OFFICERS EITHER THROUGH RETIREMENT, ILLNESS, OR JUST DIDN'’T WANT O WORK.
THEY ARE ALSO DOWN A GAZILLION FIREFIGHTERS.
HE ANNOUNCED BECAUSE OF THE COST TO PROVIDE CARE, FOOD, MEDICAL COVERAGE FOR ALL OF THE IMMIGRANTS SHIPPED TO NEW YORK, HE IS CUTTING THE BUDGET OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
IF IT IS NOT A RAT HOLE NOW, GIVE IT A YEAR.
JIM: WELCOME TO GOVERNING AS OPPOSED TO CAMPAIGNING.
AMY, WE HAVE NOT REALLY TALKED ABOUT THE BUFF CHASE AND THE TAX BREAK SITUATION.
A LOT IF YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE NEWS.
BRIEFLY SET THE TABLE ABOUT WHO BUFF CHASE IS AND THE TAX BREAKS AND NOW PART OF A BIG LEGAL BATTLE.
AMY: BUFF CHASE IS A WEALTHY DEVELOPER IN PROVIDENCE.
10 BUILDINGS HE OWNS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA ARE THE SUBJECT OF SCRUTINY BY THE NEW CITY COUNCIL.
HE GOT TAX BREAKS UNDER A PROVISION CALLED PATENT LAW -- E IGHT LAW WHICH IS FOR BUILDINGS THAT HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IS BUILDINGS ARE 100% AFFORDABLE -- ARE NOT 100% AFFORDABLE.
HE HITS TAX BREAKS THAT WAS SAFE AND $42.5 MILLION OVER 30 YEARS.
JIM: THIS WAS OVER THE -- ELORZA ADMINISTRATION.
AMY: RIGHT.
THE CITY SOLICITOR JEFF DANA ENTERED INTO THE AGREEMENT THAT GAVE BUFF CHASE THE TAX BREAKS PRETTY MUCH ON HIS OWN.
HE DID NOT GET COUNCIL APPROVAL, TAX SUCCESSOR APPROVAL, NO FORMAL APPROVAL OF THAT NATURE FROM THESE BODIES.
NOW THIS COUNCIL WANTS TO UNDO IT.
JIM: IS THAT WHAT WE WOULD CALL FRUITS OF THE POISONOUS VIBE?
LOU: I THINK IT GOES DEEPER THAN THAT.
MAX WHO IS HANDLING THIS CASE FOR THE CITY COUNCIL OF PROVIDENCE IS AN EXCEL LAWYER.
HE FILES A 120 PAGE BRIEF WITH THE COURT ALLEGING THAT JEFF DANA IS GUILTY OF CORRUPTION.
I AM NOT GETTING INTO THE WEEDS ON THIS BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO SIDES T EVERY STORY.
IT DOES SOUND LIKE THERE IS A CASE THERE.
PABLO: I WANT TO BE DOUBLES AT WICKED FOR A BUFF CHASE BECAUSE OF WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE.
THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE WAS A PIT WHEN I CAME HERE AND IS MORE THAN $200 MILLION INVESTMENT HAS TRANSFORMED DOWNTOWN.
NONETHELESS, THERE ARE PROPER WAYS OF GETTING THESE TAX BREAKS.
I GOT A TAX BREAK FROM THE BUCKET AND IT TOOK ME YEARS OF MEETINGS AND GOING BEFORE THE COUNCIL AND COMMITTEES.
EVERYONE SHOULD GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
JIM: BRING ME UP-TO-DATE ON WHERE IT IS LEGALLY.
THE JUDGE IS TRYING TO WEED THROUGH WERE THESE PROPER?
WHAT IS THE END GOAL OF LITIGATION AND WHERE DOES THAT STAND?
AMY: THIS JUDGE DOES NOT EVEN REALLY NEED TO DECIDE WHETHER IT WAS RIGHT OR WRONG.
IT IS A VERY SMALL BIRD HE HAS WHICH IS DECIDING WHETHER HE IS GOING TO GRANT THE COUNCIL'’S MOTION TO INTERVENE.
THERE IS A LOT OF BACK STORY HERE.
THESE TAX BREAKS CAME OUT OF AN OLD CASE INVOLVING CHASE.
THIS SETTLEMENT WAS BASICALLY THESE TAX BREAKS.
THE CITY COUNCIL LEGALLY IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE IT, THEY HAVE GOT TO INTERVENE.
JIM: IT HAS TO GO BACK TO THE CITY.
AMY: RIGHT.
THE JUDGE IS GOING TO MAKE HIS DECISION.
JIM: THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.
PABLO, GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK AND AMY, GOOD TO SEE YOU.
WE ARCHIVE ALL OF OUR SHOWS AT RIPBS.ORG/LIVELY.
YOU CAN CHECK TWITTER, I SHOULD CALL IT X.
PROGRAMMING, WE ARE GOING TO BE OFF NEXT WEEK, OUR TEAM WILL BE OFF FOR THANKSGIVING.
WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GOOD THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY AND WE WILL BE BACK HERE IN TWO WEEKS AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.
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VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I'’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.
I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.