1 00:00:00,966 --> 00:00:01,866 Speaker 1: I'm Jim Forsyth. 2 00:00:02,166 --> 00:00:04,200 San Antonio is a fast growing 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,000 fast moving community with 4 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,466 something new happening almost 5 00:00:07,466 --> 00:00:07,966 every day. 6 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:10,000 That's why each week I go on the 7 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,033 record with one of the 8 00:00:11,033 --> 00:00:12,733 newsmakers who is driving this 9 00:00:12,733 --> 00:00:13,800 change and this growth? 10 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,300 And then joining us. 11 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,433 Join us for the conversation a 12 00:00:17,433 --> 00:00:18,900 lively discussion with the 13 00:00:18,900 --> 00:00:20,633 reporters and community leaders 14 00:00:20,833 --> 00:00:22,333 about the issues that matter. 15 00:00:22,533 --> 00:00:24,766 So joining us now as we go on 16 00:00:24,766 --> 00:00:27,533 the record and now Jim 17 00:00:27,566 --> 00:00:28,066 foresight. 18 00:00:32,733 --> 00:00:33,500 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome 19 00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:35,666 again to on the record a weekly 20 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,600 unrehearsed discussion of the 21 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,166 opportunities and challenges 22 00:00:39,466 --> 00:00:41,500 that face us today here in San 23 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:43,033 Antonio and south Texas. 24 00:00:43,333 --> 00:00:45,133 Speaker 1: I'm Jim Forsyth Alamo 25 00:00:45,133 --> 00:00:47,733 Plaza is the beating emotional 26 00:00:47,766 --> 00:00:49,366 and historic heart of our 27 00:00:49,366 --> 00:00:51,300 community and has been for 28 00:00:51,300 --> 00:00:51,966 centuries. 29 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,266 Any time attempts are made to 30 00:00:54,266 --> 00:00:56,100 make changes at Alamo Plaza are 31 00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:57,566 bound to be controversial. 32 00:00:57,866 --> 00:00:59,500 They have been in the past and 33 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:01,000 they are again today. 34 00:01:01,266 --> 00:01:02,300 Speaker 2: And joining us today 35 00:01:02,333 --> 00:01:03,866 on the record to discuss some of 36 00:01:03,866 --> 00:01:05,266 these proposed changes is since 37 00:01:05,266 --> 00:01:06,966 it Bevin the president of the 38 00:01:06,966 --> 00:01:08,400 San Antonio Conservation 39 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:09,000 Society. 40 00:01:09,533 --> 00:01:10,733 Thank you very much for joining 41 00:01:10,733 --> 00:01:11,966 us today out on the record. 42 00:01:12,166 --> 00:01:13,100 Thank you for having me. 43 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,866 The Conservation Society has 44 00:01:14,866 --> 00:01:16,666 made a serious proposal and will 45 00:01:16,666 --> 00:01:18,133 present that proposal to the 46 00:01:18,133 --> 00:01:19,633 Texas Historical Commission 47 00:01:19,633 --> 00:01:22,366 tomorrow to essentially include 48 00:01:22,366 --> 00:01:24,533 the Woolworth building as part 49 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,266 of the grand plan for Alamo 50 00:01:26,266 --> 00:01:27,200 Plaza renovation. 51 00:01:27,233 --> 00:01:29,000 Could you explain why the 52 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,633 Woolworth Building is important 53 00:01:30,933 --> 00:01:32,433 in this plan? 54 00:01:32,966 --> 00:01:33,833 Speaker 1: Well let me digress 55 00:01:33,866 --> 00:01:35,366 just one moment and go back to 56 00:01:35,366 --> 00:01:38,333 2017 when they had the Alamo 57 00:01:38,333 --> 00:01:39,800 master plan it wasn't called the 58 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,000 interpretive plan yet. 59 00:01:41,466 --> 00:01:43,866 And at that point you had 60 00:01:43,866 --> 00:01:46,366 everyone from Nurenberg Scully 61 00:01:46,733 --> 00:01:48,700 and Trevino who said that they 62 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:50,300 wanted to repurpose the 63 00:01:50,300 --> 00:01:51,366 Woolworth Building and the 64 00:01:51,366 --> 00:01:52,533 Crockett block and the palace 65 00:01:52,533 --> 00:01:53,166 the whole block. 66 00:01:53,633 --> 00:01:56,200 So we thought that would be put 67 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:57,333 it was moving forward. 68 00:01:57,933 --> 00:02:01,200 2018 with a series of meetings. 69 00:02:01,633 --> 00:02:03,900 Those buildings were not part of 70 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:05,866 the presentation and we had a 71 00:02:05,866 --> 00:02:08,100 private presentation in some of 72 00:02:08,100 --> 00:02:08,700 the renderings. 73 00:02:08,733 --> 00:02:10,966 They were there and some not a 74 00:02:10,966 --> 00:02:12,333 lot of alluding to the fact that 75 00:02:12,333 --> 00:02:13,366 they would not be there. 76 00:02:13,733 --> 00:02:15,500 And that started a concern. 77 00:02:15,533 --> 00:02:17,100 So this was sort of a a 78 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:17,800 progression. 79 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,566 So we were very concerned about 80 00:02:20,866 --> 00:02:22,400 those buildings not being there 81 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:23,633 and not being repurposed. 82 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,633 Obviously everything else about 83 00:02:25,633 --> 00:02:27,000 the plan as I had mentioned 84 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,900 previously can be redone under 85 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,333 changed or whatever but not the 86 00:02:31,333 --> 00:02:33,233 demolition of the building in 87 00:02:33,233 --> 00:02:34,966 the meanwhile we begin to gather 88 00:02:34,966 --> 00:02:36,433 more information about the 89 00:02:36,433 --> 00:02:38,266 Woolworth Building and the civil 90 00:02:38,266 --> 00:02:40,500 rights movement and March 16 91 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:43,466 1960 and the extreme importance 92 00:02:43,466 --> 00:02:43,833 of that. 93 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:45,900 With the tourism that's 94 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:47,900 associated with African-American 95 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:49,633 trials and of history. 96 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,700 We felt like this was very 97 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:53,666 important to include when the 98 00:02:53,666 --> 00:02:55,233 Woolworth building was put on 99 00:02:55,233 --> 00:02:56,433 the national register for 100 00:02:56,433 --> 00:02:57,400 historic places. 101 00:02:57,766 --> 00:02:59,533 It did not include any of the 102 00:02:59,533 --> 00:03:01,566 civil rights movement and we 103 00:03:01,566 --> 00:03:02,633 felt like this was an 104 00:03:02,633 --> 00:03:05,233 opportunity to include that. 105 00:03:05,566 --> 00:03:07,033 So one of the things that we 106 00:03:07,033 --> 00:03:08,733 will do tomorrow is to present 107 00:03:08,733 --> 00:03:10,766 that information going forward 108 00:03:10,766 --> 00:03:12,266 with the state antiquities 109 00:03:12,266 --> 00:03:12,933 landmark. 110 00:03:13,366 --> 00:03:15,133 So it was it was very important 111 00:03:15,133 --> 00:03:16,833 we also felt like it needed to 112 00:03:16,833 --> 00:03:18,566 be presented by. 113 00:03:19,433 --> 00:03:20,933 More than just the Conservation 114 00:03:20,933 --> 00:03:21,566 Society. 115 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,333 We had all of these people that 116 00:03:23,333 --> 00:03:24,900 had a vested interest in the 117 00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:25,966 civil rights movement. 118 00:03:26,366 --> 00:03:28,900 So the coalition was formed and 119 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:30,733 we have worked together to do 120 00:03:30,733 --> 00:03:31,000 this. 121 00:03:31,033 --> 00:03:32,066 One of the things that I 122 00:03:32,066 --> 00:03:33,366 discovered going through some 123 00:03:33,366 --> 00:03:35,733 files back about two months ago 124 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:39,000 was that the 1994 Alamo master 125 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,300 plan very similar to today's 126 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:44,366 plan also talked about a world 127 00:03:44,366 --> 00:03:47,500 class museum but it wanted to 128 00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:49,800 spotlight the history of Alamo 129 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:50,333 Plaza. 130 00:03:50,433 --> 00:03:51,966 Not to stop with the battle of 131 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,033 1836. 132 00:03:53,933 --> 00:03:55,400 Thought that was validation as 133 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:55,733 well. 134 00:03:55,766 --> 00:03:58,000 Why not include that if you want 135 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:58,766 people to come? 136 00:03:58,866 --> 00:04:00,500 Why be so specific? 137 00:04:00,966 --> 00:04:02,666 I'm not I'm not ignoring the 138 00:04:02,666 --> 00:04:03,666 fact that the battle is 139 00:04:03,666 --> 00:04:04,200 important. 140 00:04:04,233 --> 00:04:05,600 I'm a member of the D.A.. 141 00:04:05,866 --> 00:04:07,266 I certainly understand that. 142 00:04:07,533 --> 00:04:09,400 But why not expand so that you 143 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,500 have some reference to all of 144 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:13,033 the history along the plaza. 145 00:04:13,133 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: Talk to us a little 146 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,300 bit about what happened that the 147 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:16,900 Woolworth Building that gives it 148 00:04:16,900 --> 00:04:18,500 an iconic status at the civil 149 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:19,133 rights movement. 150 00:04:19,533 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: Well in and there had 151 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,633 been some mention about it was 152 00:04:22,633 --> 00:04:24,900 not the first to integrate and 153 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:25,633 that was corpus. 154 00:04:25,666 --> 00:04:26,733 But that was not part of the 155 00:04:26,733 --> 00:04:27,100 movement. 156 00:04:27,133 --> 00:04:28,400 That was back in the 50s. 157 00:04:28,833 --> 00:04:31,200 So there were a group of people 158 00:04:31,766 --> 00:04:33,433 who got together and they 159 00:04:33,433 --> 00:04:34,266 proposed this. 160 00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:36,066 So it was going to the the 161 00:04:36,266 --> 00:04:38,733 peaceful desegregation of the 162 00:04:38,733 --> 00:04:40,700 lunch counter was not Joyce just 163 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:42,166 going to be Woolworth but it was 164 00:04:42,166 --> 00:04:44,000 going to be most of your lunch 165 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,366 counters in downtown and the 166 00:04:45,366 --> 00:04:46,433 surrounding areas. 167 00:04:46,866 --> 00:04:48,333 What made it important with the 168 00:04:48,333 --> 00:04:50,233 Woolworth was its prominent 169 00:04:50,233 --> 00:04:53,366 position so March 16 1960? 170 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,333 Not only was it peaceful which 171 00:04:55,333 --> 00:04:56,566 doesn't get you any press 172 00:04:56,633 --> 00:04:58,700 obviously but it was a peaceful 173 00:04:58,933 --> 00:05:00,033 desegregation. 174 00:05:00,700 --> 00:05:03,466 Very voluntary on both part and 175 00:05:03,566 --> 00:05:06,366 so the importance of that corner 176 00:05:06,466 --> 00:05:08,300 is significant because you have 177 00:05:08,333 --> 00:05:11,266 a bus transfer that was there 178 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,366 that still is there but it was 179 00:05:13,366 --> 00:05:14,733 important is where a lot of high 180 00:05:14,733 --> 00:05:16,200 school kids came to transfer to 181 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,266 go to their high schools. 182 00:05:17,566 --> 00:05:19,100 People were there all the time. 183 00:05:19,666 --> 00:05:20,700 The stories about their 184 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:23,233 wonderful potato donuts is just 185 00:05:23,233 --> 00:05:23,900 remarkable. 186 00:05:24,166 --> 00:05:26,200 But it was significant in its 187 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,633 prominence on the corner. 188 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:29,533 So yes you could have a museum 189 00:05:29,533 --> 00:05:31,166 somewhere else but won't do that 190 00:05:31,466 --> 00:05:32,566 if you're really looking at a 191 00:05:32,566 --> 00:05:33,700 world class museum. 192 00:05:33,966 --> 00:05:35,100 And we have several in 193 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:36,833 repurposed buildings around San 194 00:05:36,833 --> 00:05:37,433 Antonio. 195 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:38,966 Why not have it there? 196 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:41,033 Speaker 2: And this happened at 197 00:05:41,033 --> 00:05:42,466 a time when other attempts to 198 00:05:42,466 --> 00:05:43,900 integrate public facilities were 199 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:45,033 being met with violence. 200 00:05:45,366 --> 00:05:46,833 We're being met with very very 201 00:05:46,833 --> 00:05:49,500 serious situations. 202 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:50,366 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 203 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:51,666 And this was not. 204 00:05:51,766 --> 00:05:53,200 And that as I mentioned this is 205 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:54,900 why you don't see a lot of press 206 00:05:55,233 --> 00:05:56,166 involved with that. 207 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:57,566 But it was significant. 208 00:05:57,966 --> 00:05:59,400 And when you talk to the people 209 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,433 who experienced the segregation 210 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:03,333 prior to that. 211 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:05,300 Speaker 2: This was significant. 212 00:06:05,333 --> 00:06:06,266 So what's your plan for the 213 00:06:06,266 --> 00:06:06,900 Woolworth Building. 214 00:06:06,933 --> 00:06:08,066 What would you like to see done 215 00:06:08,066 --> 00:06:08,400 with it? 216 00:06:08,966 --> 00:06:09,700 Speaker 1: Well we had the 217 00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:11,266 renderings that we presented at 218 00:06:11,266 --> 00:06:12,933 the press conference and I want 219 00:06:12,933 --> 00:06:14,733 to say also that you know I 220 00:06:14,733 --> 00:06:16,633 serve at the pleasure of the 221 00:06:16,633 --> 00:06:18,866 board and our board is the one 222 00:06:18,866 --> 00:06:20,166 who gives the directives. 223 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,566 So back in October they felt 224 00:06:22,633 --> 00:06:24,400 that because the buildings had 225 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,033 been left out they were bought 226 00:06:26,433 --> 00:06:27,933 set apart from the rest of the 227 00:06:27,933 --> 00:06:28,933 plan and the lease. 228 00:06:29,333 --> 00:06:30,266 And because they were owned by 229 00:06:30,266 --> 00:06:31,633 the states our board made a 230 00:06:31,633 --> 00:06:33,900 motion for us to hire a 231 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:35,733 structural engineer and an 232 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,533 architect to show how these 233 00:06:38,533 --> 00:06:41,300 buildings can be used because it 234 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:42,500 was important that they not be 235 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:42,933 demolished. 236 00:06:42,966 --> 00:06:44,466 Why add to the landfill when 237 00:06:44,466 --> 00:06:45,433 we're trying to be green? 238 00:06:46,033 --> 00:06:47,333 So that was the directive. 239 00:06:47,366 --> 00:06:48,666 So we've worked with Alamo 240 00:06:48,666 --> 00:06:49,733 architects all along. 241 00:06:49,766 --> 00:06:51,266 And it was not meant to be any 242 00:06:51,266 --> 00:06:51,966 big secret. 243 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,666 It's just it was a direction of 244 00:06:53,666 --> 00:06:54,100 the board. 245 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:55,033 Speaker 2: We're accountable to 246 00:06:55,033 --> 00:06:56,766 the board not to the city. 247 00:06:57,433 --> 00:06:57,900 So. 248 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:00,700 I was so impressed we took some 249 00:07:00,700 --> 00:07:03,000 of the ideas that were presented 250 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,933 by the Alamo trust and there are 251 00:07:05,933 --> 00:07:08,333 designers back at the beginning 252 00:07:08,333 --> 00:07:09,000 last summer. 253 00:07:09,433 --> 00:07:10,933 They had already talked about an 254 00:07:10,933 --> 00:07:11,433 arcade. 255 00:07:11,466 --> 00:07:13,233 There is a walkway back behind 256 00:07:13,233 --> 00:07:13,500 there. 257 00:07:13,866 --> 00:07:15,566 So why not utilize that. 258 00:07:15,633 --> 00:07:16,766 They've talked about the west 259 00:07:16,766 --> 00:07:17,100 wall. 260 00:07:17,433 --> 00:07:18,833 We were also looking at the 261 00:07:18,833 --> 00:07:19,466 lunch counter. 262 00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:20,900 So it's how can you combine 263 00:07:20,900 --> 00:07:21,100 this? 264 00:07:21,433 --> 00:07:22,633 How can you utilize the 265 00:07:22,633 --> 00:07:23,033 buildings? 266 00:07:23,366 --> 00:07:25,366 Scar may us back several years 267 00:07:25,366 --> 00:07:26,500 ago we talked about having a 268 00:07:26,500 --> 00:07:28,500 great injury much like I'm I'm 269 00:07:28,533 --> 00:07:29,933 presuming much like the witty 270 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,033 and so if you gave up. 271 00:07:33,566 --> 00:07:34,866 The least significant of the 272 00:07:34,866 --> 00:07:36,366 three which is the palace and 273 00:07:36,366 --> 00:07:38,400 you created a grand entry there 274 00:07:38,900 --> 00:07:40,800 then and you combined which I 275 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:41,833 thought Irby did such a 276 00:07:41,833 --> 00:07:43,300 wonderful job of having that 277 00:07:43,366 --> 00:07:45,466 arcade go through the buildings 278 00:07:45,533 --> 00:07:46,600 and the arcade follows the 279 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:47,600 original west wall of the 280 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:48,700 basement which is interesting. 281 00:07:48,733 --> 00:07:50,400 It does and you have a teaser. 282 00:07:50,433 --> 00:07:52,700 So from what we understand with 283 00:07:53,033 --> 00:07:55,233 the interpretive plan people 284 00:07:55,233 --> 00:07:57,000 will be allowed on the plaza. 285 00:07:57,666 --> 00:07:59,000 They will come in not at the 286 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,566 South Gate but closer to the 287 00:08:00,566 --> 00:08:01,133 museum. 288 00:08:01,333 --> 00:08:02,133 I understand that. 289 00:08:02,566 --> 00:08:04,933 And so there it's supposed to be 290 00:08:04,933 --> 00:08:06,366 free for them to come in not to 291 00:08:06,366 --> 00:08:07,033 see the museum. 292 00:08:07,266 --> 00:08:08,600 But then why not have those 293 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:09,933 teasers as they're walking 294 00:08:09,933 --> 00:08:10,300 through there. 295 00:08:10,566 --> 00:08:12,100 Just see little previews of what 296 00:08:12,100 --> 00:08:13,666 they might see when they're in 297 00:08:13,666 --> 00:08:13,766 the. 298 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:14,933 Then my understanding is the 299 00:08:14,933 --> 00:08:16,233 main museum would then be built 300 00:08:16,233 --> 00:08:17,566 to the west of the existing 301 00:08:17,566 --> 00:08:18,666 Woolworth building up against 302 00:08:18,666 --> 00:08:19,633 the Houston street parking 303 00:08:19,633 --> 00:08:19,966 garage. 304 00:08:20,133 --> 00:08:20,700 Exactly. 305 00:08:20,733 --> 00:08:22,533 And so that's free space that 306 00:08:22,533 --> 00:08:23,766 you can do whatever you want. 307 00:08:24,133 --> 00:08:25,866 And because the Woolworth 308 00:08:25,866 --> 00:08:27,166 building is pretty comparable is 309 00:08:27,166 --> 00:08:29,100 a very solid building but it is 310 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:31,566 compromise from from its origin. 311 00:08:32,466 --> 00:08:34,166 So you can do whatever you want 312 00:08:34,166 --> 00:08:34,766 inside. 313 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,100 So you're really not limited. 314 00:08:36,133 --> 00:08:38,100 You're not having like the clock 315 00:08:38,100 --> 00:08:38,966 it is very different. 316 00:08:39,066 --> 00:08:40,766 You you have all of the walls 317 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:41,800 you already have the office 318 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,033 building and so it looks like 319 00:08:44,133 --> 00:08:45,466 we're not sure but it looks like 320 00:08:45,466 --> 00:08:46,966 from the renderings that they 321 00:08:47,033 --> 00:08:47,566 all along. 322 00:08:47,633 --> 00:08:49,300 They they pretty much decided 323 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:50,566 they would keep the Crockett 324 00:08:50,566 --> 00:08:52,366 building but not the other two. 325 00:08:52,666 --> 00:08:55,366 So that was our compromise based 326 00:08:55,366 --> 00:08:56,866 on all the renderings that we 327 00:08:56,866 --> 00:08:58,800 had been shown throughout last 328 00:08:58,800 --> 00:08:59,833 summer and the fall. 329 00:09:00,233 --> 00:09:01,900 Now the Conservation Society 330 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:03,133 also has a position on the 331 00:09:03,133 --> 00:09:04,666 cenotaph which continues to be 332 00:09:04,666 --> 00:09:06,600 an emotional part of Alamo Plaza 333 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:07,566 where does the Conservation 334 00:09:07,566 --> 00:09:08,733 Society stand on that? 335 00:09:09,166 --> 00:09:10,933 Two years ago our board was very 336 00:09:10,933 --> 00:09:11,433 split. 337 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:13,366 Some people felt like that 338 00:09:13,366 --> 00:09:14,766 should not be our main focus. 339 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,866 Others were you know highly 340 00:09:16,866 --> 00:09:18,766 engaged in the conversation. 341 00:09:19,766 --> 00:09:22,333 Then last year we had I believe 342 00:09:22,333 --> 00:09:23,333 it was last fall. 343 00:09:23,633 --> 00:09:25,500 We they brought another motion 344 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:26,900 to the floor during one of our 345 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:29,566 board meetings and it was not 346 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:30,866 overwhelming but it certainly 347 00:09:30,866 --> 00:09:32,500 was the majority in favor of 348 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:33,966 keeping this a tent where it 349 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,033 where it is. 350 00:09:35,366 --> 00:09:37,400 It's another reason why we had 351 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,566 made a decision to and we'd 352 00:09:39,566 --> 00:09:41,233 notified the council and the 353 00:09:41,233 --> 00:09:42,666 mayor with our letter of support 354 00:09:42,666 --> 00:09:44,000 for keeping it in place. 355 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,500 However we felt like because 356 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:47,600 that's not going to be 357 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,066 demolished only moved if it gets 358 00:09:50,066 --> 00:09:53,100 moved that the focus needs to be 359 00:09:53,166 --> 00:09:54,266 particularly on the Woolworth 360 00:09:54,300 --> 00:09:55,500 which is most at risk. 361 00:09:55,900 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: Susan Bevan is 362 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:57,933 president of the San Antonio 363 00:09:57,933 --> 00:09:59,166 Conservation Society. 364 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,500 Thank you very much for joining 365 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:01,600 us on on the record and good 366 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:01,933 luck. 367 00:10:02,166 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 368 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:09,566 Speaker 1: Ross Ramsey executive 369 00:10:09,566 --> 00:10:10,866 editor of The Texas Tribune 370 00:10:10,866 --> 00:10:12,466 joins us from Austin as he does 371 00:10:12,466 --> 00:10:14,300 every week during the 20 19 372 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:15,633 session of the Texas 373 00:10:15,633 --> 00:10:16,400 legislature. 374 00:10:16,733 --> 00:10:17,966 And Ross as we head toward the 375 00:10:17,966 --> 00:10:19,366 final weeks of the session we 376 00:10:19,366 --> 00:10:21,366 saw debacle this week that I 377 00:10:21,366 --> 00:10:23,133 think baffled even longtime 378 00:10:23,133 --> 00:10:24,700 legislative observers like 379 00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:26,366 yourself with the governor 380 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:27,666 lieutenant governor and speaker 381 00:10:27,666 --> 00:10:29,433 of the House essentially being 382 00:10:29,433 --> 00:10:30,800 blown out of the water on their 383 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,133 tax swap proposal. 384 00:10:32,466 --> 00:10:34,033 What happened to that and how 385 00:10:34,033 --> 00:10:35,866 does this weaken the position of 386 00:10:35,866 --> 00:10:37,300 the leadership moving into the 387 00:10:37,666 --> 00:10:39,166 end of the session and beyond? 388 00:10:40,633 --> 00:10:41,833 Well you know I don't know that 389 00:10:41,833 --> 00:10:43,000 it weakened them. 390 00:10:43,033 --> 00:10:44,833 It's embarrassing and it's 391 00:10:44,833 --> 00:10:46,366 probably not damaging to their 392 00:10:46,366 --> 00:10:47,100 main goals. 393 00:10:47,133 --> 00:10:48,566 But you know it's an interesting 394 00:10:48,566 --> 00:10:49,800 deal they came out and they said 395 00:10:50,166 --> 00:10:51,866 let's raise sales taxes by a 396 00:10:51,866 --> 00:10:54,100 penny in order to get property 397 00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:56,166 tax payers the property tax cuts 398 00:10:56,166 --> 00:10:56,966 that they want it would have 399 00:10:56,966 --> 00:10:58,266 been enough money to lower 400 00:10:58,466 --> 00:11:01,266 school property taxes by 15 or 401 00:11:01,266 --> 00:11:02,633 20 cents somewhere in that 402 00:11:02,633 --> 00:11:02,966 range. 403 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:04,866 But you are asking a Republican 404 00:11:04,866 --> 00:11:07,633 legislature to pass a sales tax 405 00:11:07,633 --> 00:11:09,400 increase of 16 percent it would 406 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,300 have made the sales tax in Texas 407 00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:12,100 one of the highest in the 408 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:14,166 country and conservative tax 409 00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:16,433 conservative legislators and 410 00:11:16,433 --> 00:11:17,933 politicians balked at that. 411 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:18,766 They shouldn't have been 412 00:11:18,766 --> 00:11:20,766 surprised but bulk they did it 413 00:11:20,766 --> 00:11:21,700 turns out you can't lead 414 00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:23,200 legislators where they don't 415 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:23,800 want to follow. 416 00:11:23,866 --> 00:11:25,766 So the tax swap is out. 417 00:11:26,166 --> 00:11:28,333 But the main components that the 418 00:11:28,933 --> 00:11:30,000 governor and the lieutenant 419 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,700 governor and speaker laid out as 420 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:32,833 their priorities at the 421 00:11:32,833 --> 00:11:33,733 beginning of the session are 422 00:11:33,733 --> 00:11:35,500 still in place the school 423 00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:37,500 finance reforms that they 424 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:39,500 proposed some education changes 425 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:42,266 that they've made and a proposed 426 00:11:43,433 --> 00:11:45,366 requirement that voters approve 427 00:11:45,366 --> 00:11:47,566 any local property tax increase 428 00:11:47,566 --> 00:11:48,600 above three and a half percent 429 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:49,533 is still moving along. 430 00:11:49,933 --> 00:11:51,300 So there are initial package is 431 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:53,733 fine this late April Hail Mary 432 00:11:53,733 --> 00:11:56,133 pass for sales tax for property 433 00:11:56,133 --> 00:11:57,800 tax swap appears to be dead. 434 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,700 And those interesting Democratic 435 00:11:59,700 --> 00:12:00,700 State Representative Donna 436 00:12:00,700 --> 00:12:01,833 Howard said it was like the 437 00:12:01,833 --> 00:12:03,966 world turned upside down when 438 00:12:03,966 --> 00:12:05,400 the Democrats all got together 439 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,500 for a news conference to 440 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:08,100 criticize a tax at Grace that 441 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:09,100 was being supported by 442 00:12:09,100 --> 00:12:09,866 Republicans. 443 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:11,233 That's how bizarre the 444 00:12:11,233 --> 00:12:12,566 legislative session got this 445 00:12:12,566 --> 00:12:13,033 past week. 446 00:12:13,066 --> 00:12:14,766 Now that this is dead how do we 447 00:12:14,766 --> 00:12:16,433 pay for school finance across 448 00:12:16,433 --> 00:12:16,700 the board? 449 00:12:16,733 --> 00:12:17,600 Teacher pay raises. 450 00:12:18,866 --> 00:12:19,866 Well you know all of that was 451 00:12:19,866 --> 00:12:21,566 paid for the comptroller came in 452 00:12:21,566 --> 00:12:22,766 before the session began. 453 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,900 Glenn Hager and said that sales 454 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:26,400 taxes are good and that the 455 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,033 state legislature would have 456 00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:30,733 about 9 billion dollars more to 457 00:12:30,733 --> 00:12:32,433 start with this time than it did 458 00:12:32,433 --> 00:12:33,266 two years ago. 459 00:12:33,666 --> 00:12:35,200 And that's enough money to do a 460 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:36,200 lot of what the governor 461 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,433 lieutenant governor and speaker 462 00:12:37,433 --> 00:12:38,833 proposed in the first place. 463 00:12:39,233 --> 00:12:40,700 The part that's not funded now 464 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:41,633 that they don't have the money 465 00:12:41,633 --> 00:12:45,166 for is cutting local property 466 00:12:45,166 --> 00:12:45,666 taxes. 467 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:46,766 There was some conversation 468 00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:49,366 about ditching the education 469 00:12:49,366 --> 00:12:50,466 stuff and just doing the 470 00:12:50,466 --> 00:12:51,400 property tax stuff. 471 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:52,466 But that's not what they 472 00:12:52,466 --> 00:12:53,933 promised and that's that's not 473 00:12:54,033 --> 00:12:55,166 apparently the direction that 474 00:12:55,166 --> 00:12:55,966 they're going to take here. 475 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:57,633 What is the most emotional 476 00:12:57,633 --> 00:12:58,833 debates I've ever heard on the 477 00:12:58,833 --> 00:13:00,166 floor of the Senate this week 478 00:13:00,166 --> 00:13:02,966 when the Senate approved a bill 479 00:13:02,966 --> 00:13:05,200 that would require that voters 480 00:13:05,233 --> 00:13:07,133 or a supermajority of the 481 00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:09,000 controlling board have to 482 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,666 approve the removal of Edie as 483 00:13:10,666 --> 00:13:11,133 they put it? 484 00:13:11,366 --> 00:13:12,466 Monuments that have been 485 00:13:12,466 --> 00:13:14,333 standing for 25 years or more we 486 00:13:14,333 --> 00:13:15,033 all doubt that they were 487 00:13:15,033 --> 00:13:16,200 referring to Confederate 488 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:16,733 monuments. 489 00:13:17,366 --> 00:13:19,233 Some very very emotional 490 00:13:19,233 --> 00:13:20,066 comments from the two 491 00:13:20,066 --> 00:13:21,566 African-American senators. 492 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:22,800 Tell us about how that came 493 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,033 about it where that goes. 494 00:13:25,433 --> 00:13:27,200 Well you know this was pushed by 495 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:29,866 some of the conservative members 496 00:13:29,866 --> 00:13:32,066 of the Senate who were upset 497 00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:33,533 with or have been upset with 498 00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:34,733 what's been going on with 499 00:13:34,733 --> 00:13:36,700 monuments for the last you know 500 00:13:36,733 --> 00:13:38,466 whatever however long this is 501 00:13:38,866 --> 00:13:40,166 it's an emotional argument it's 502 00:13:40,166 --> 00:13:42,433 an openly racial argument and 503 00:13:42,433 --> 00:13:43,966 it's a conversation about you 504 00:13:43,966 --> 00:13:44,700 know whether you're going to 505 00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:46,966 honor the losers of the Civil 506 00:13:46,966 --> 00:13:48,900 War and in ways that are 507 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:50,666 offensive to the people who won 508 00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:52,433 and to the minorities over whom 509 00:13:52,433 --> 00:13:53,233 that war was fought? 510 00:13:53,633 --> 00:13:55,233 And when you put that on the 511 00:13:55,233 --> 00:13:56,333 floor of the Senate you know 512 00:13:56,333 --> 00:13:57,133 there was a little bit of 513 00:13:57,133 --> 00:13:58,666 incredulity from the 514 00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:00,133 African-American senators and 515 00:14:00,133 --> 00:14:02,300 some of the other Democrats the 516 00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:04,100 Republicans were you know saying 517 00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:05,233 we need to protect history and 518 00:14:05,233 --> 00:14:05,866 heritage. 519 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,533 And it's a familiar fight but 520 00:14:07,533 --> 00:14:09,233 when it's out in the open like 521 00:14:09,233 --> 00:14:10,733 that and when they're talking 522 00:14:10,733 --> 00:14:12,433 directly to each other about 523 00:14:12,433 --> 00:14:16,200 that this open community fight 524 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:17,666 becomes a very very personal 525 00:14:17,666 --> 00:14:19,100 conversation they had to calm 526 00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:20,733 down a couple of times and say 527 00:14:20,733 --> 00:14:21,733 you know hey members don't make 528 00:14:21,733 --> 00:14:22,300 this personal. 529 00:14:22,833 --> 00:14:24,133 Now where does this go? 530 00:14:24,166 --> 00:14:25,766 Because an amendment was tacked 531 00:14:25,766 --> 00:14:26,866 on in the Senate that will 532 00:14:26,866 --> 00:14:28,966 essentially prevent the Cenotaph 533 00:14:29,033 --> 00:14:30,633 at Alamo Plaza for being moved 534 00:14:30,633 --> 00:14:32,433 as part of the 400 million 535 00:14:32,433 --> 00:14:34,200 dollar Alamo reimagining project 536 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,300 that could scuttle the plan 537 00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:35,866 entirely. 538 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:37,733 Will this fly at the house do 539 00:14:37,733 --> 00:14:38,000 you think? 540 00:14:39,333 --> 00:14:40,166 You know I don't know that the 541 00:14:40,166 --> 00:14:41,200 House wants to get into this 542 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,333 fight we're in the last couple 543 00:14:42,333 --> 00:14:43,733 of weeks all the big pieces are 544 00:14:43,733 --> 00:14:44,766 on the table and they've got 545 00:14:44,766 --> 00:14:46,433 plenty to fight about without 546 00:14:46,433 --> 00:14:47,433 getting sidetracked. 547 00:14:47,466 --> 00:14:48,900 And if they view this as a 548 00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:50,133 sidetrack they've got an easy 549 00:14:50,133 --> 00:14:51,866 excuse for saying we just don't 550 00:14:51,866 --> 00:14:52,500 want to do that. 551 00:14:53,166 --> 00:14:54,233 Lieutenant Governor Patrick 552 00:14:54,233 --> 00:14:55,166 threw his weight around this 553 00:14:55,166 --> 00:14:57,000 week when he came out and flatly 554 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,166 said I will not support the 555 00:14:59,166 --> 00:15:00,366 measure that had been approved 556 00:15:00,366 --> 00:15:02,666 in the house fairly strongly to 557 00:15:02,666 --> 00:15:04,666 cut the punishment for marijuana 558 00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:06,000 possession down to a traffic 559 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:06,333 ticket. 560 00:15:06,933 --> 00:15:08,433 Where do we stand with marijuana 561 00:15:08,433 --> 00:15:09,800 with medical marijuana with 562 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:10,133 hemp? 563 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:11,600 There are a lot of cannabis 564 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,066 related bills on the agenda this 565 00:15:13,066 --> 00:15:13,266 year. 566 00:15:13,466 --> 00:15:14,466 Eddie I'm going to get through. 567 00:15:15,866 --> 00:15:16,600 I think they're going to have a 568 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:17,533 hard time in the Senate. 569 00:15:17,566 --> 00:15:19,600 They seem to have a you know 570 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:20,566 they seem to be allergic to 571 00:15:20,566 --> 00:15:21,766 marijuana bills right now. 572 00:15:22,433 --> 00:15:24,166 A couple of medical cannabis 573 00:15:24,166 --> 00:15:26,433 bills would have increased the 574 00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:27,900 pretty tight use. 575 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,700 Texas allows now for CBD oils in 576 00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:31,300 those things. 577 00:15:32,033 --> 00:15:33,200 The decriminalization 578 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,366 legislation I think is clearly 579 00:15:34,366 --> 00:15:34,600 dead. 580 00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:36,566 Ok. 581 00:15:36,633 --> 00:15:37,466 So are we going to have a 582 00:15:37,466 --> 00:15:38,133 special session. 583 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:39,400 Are we going to get this done by 584 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:39,500 the? 585 00:15:40,666 --> 00:15:41,866 I'm I'm. 586 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:44,700 I'm a really lousy teller of 587 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,200 future but I don't think so. 588 00:15:46,633 --> 00:15:48,033 Ross Ramsey is the executive 589 00:15:48,033 --> 00:15:49,200 editor of The Texas Tribune. 590 00:15:49,233 --> 00:15:50,100 Speaker 2: As always thank you 591 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:51,366 for joining us on the record. 592 00:15:54,166 --> 00:15:54,333 Five. 593 00:15:56,233 --> 00:15:57,266 Speaker 1: Gilbert Garcia is the 594 00:15:57,266 --> 00:15:58,566 metro columnist for The San 595 00:15:58,566 --> 00:16:00,100 Antonio Express News SANFORD 596 00:16:00,133 --> 00:16:01,500 Nowlan the editor in chief of 597 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:03,100 the San Antonio Current both 598 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:04,000 friends of the program. 599 00:16:04,033 --> 00:16:05,166 Thank you both for joining us 600 00:16:05,166 --> 00:16:05,800 again today. 601 00:16:06,266 --> 00:16:07,966 Obviously we had one election 602 00:16:07,966 --> 00:16:08,600 last weekend. 603 00:16:08,633 --> 00:16:09,966 We have another election coming 604 00:16:09,966 --> 00:16:10,666 up next month. 605 00:16:11,333 --> 00:16:12,766 One question I like to throw out 606 00:16:12,766 --> 00:16:13,933 to get things started is. 607 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:14,866 Every. 608 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,533 Incumbent all seven incumbents 609 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,133 who ran for re-election won 610 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,633 overwhelmingly some from Shirley 611 00:16:22,633 --> 00:16:24,200 Gonzalez to Clayton Perry with 612 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:25,933 sixty five percent of the vote 613 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,933 among multiple challengers. 614 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,366 Such an incredible feat. 615 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:31,700 This was a wave that Ron 616 00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:34,333 Nierenberg should have run but 617 00:16:34,333 --> 00:16:34,866 he didn't. 618 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,166 I mean why did he not grab this 619 00:16:37,166 --> 00:16:37,633 wave? 620 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:39,266 Why did people go to the polls 621 00:16:39,266 --> 00:16:40,666 and say I love my council 622 00:16:40,666 --> 00:16:41,000 member? 623 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:42,133 I don't like my mayor. 624 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:43,900 Speaker 2: Well it's interesting 625 00:16:43,933 --> 00:16:45,533 I mentioned rebirth of her 626 00:16:45,566 --> 00:16:47,233 brother Trevino in District 1 627 00:16:47,233 --> 00:16:49,866 had seven or eight challengers 628 00:16:49,866 --> 00:16:51,033 and won easily. 629 00:16:51,366 --> 00:16:53,133 And you know the one of the 630 00:16:53,133 --> 00:16:54,833 things that the Brock House 631 00:16:54,833 --> 00:16:56,300 campaign would cite as something 632 00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:57,166 that helped them was the chick 633 00:16:57,166 --> 00:16:58,766 fillet issue rather Trevino was 634 00:16:58,766 --> 00:17:00,066 really the person who introduced 635 00:17:00,066 --> 00:17:02,633 the amendment and was the most 636 00:17:02,633 --> 00:17:03,566 up front about the fact that it 637 00:17:03,566 --> 00:17:06,600 was about LG GBC T issues and it 638 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:07,733 didn't hurt him in his district. 639 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,533 Of course it plays differently 640 00:17:09,533 --> 00:17:10,366 in different parts of the city. 641 00:17:10,633 --> 00:17:12,000 I think one of the things that 642 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,066 has been clear about Mayor 643 00:17:13,066 --> 00:17:15,633 Nierenberg is that for whatever 644 00:17:15,633 --> 00:17:17,900 reason maybe because he takes 645 00:17:18,133 --> 00:17:19,700 these kind of nuanced views and 646 00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:20,933 sort of triangulate the issues 647 00:17:21,100 --> 00:17:22,866 he has a way of maybe maybe 648 00:17:22,866 --> 00:17:24,200 irritating people on both ends 649 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,166 of the political spectrum and I 650 00:17:25,166 --> 00:17:26,433 think paid sick leave is a great 651 00:17:26,433 --> 00:17:28,033 example of that where he voted 652 00:17:28,033 --> 00:17:29,233 for it the city passed it last 653 00:17:29,233 --> 00:17:30,433 summer he made it clear that 654 00:17:30,433 --> 00:17:31,433 when he when he voted for it he 655 00:17:31,433 --> 00:17:32,200 wasn't happy about it. 656 00:17:32,466 --> 00:17:34,766 And then last month he declined 657 00:17:35,066 --> 00:17:36,466 to support Councilman Sal 658 00:17:36,466 --> 00:17:38,566 Daniels pushed to serve to 659 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,366 defend the paid sick leave 660 00:17:40,666 --> 00:17:41,066 ordinance. 661 00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:43,733 So he upset people in the right 662 00:17:43,733 --> 00:17:45,666 by voting for it and he upset 663 00:17:45,666 --> 00:17:46,766 people in the left by not 664 00:17:46,766 --> 00:17:47,366 defending it. 665 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,166 And so I think that lack of 666 00:17:50,166 --> 00:17:51,800 enthusiasm I think it really 667 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:52,200 hurt him a lot. 668 00:17:52,366 --> 00:17:53,100 Speaker 1: Sanford Why do you 669 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:54,200 think the mayor did didn't when 670 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:55,366 like all of his other 671 00:17:55,366 --> 00:17:56,933 compatriots at city council a 672 00:17:56,933 --> 00:17:58,466 lot of it to also hinges on 673 00:17:58,466 --> 00:17:59,900 turnout and if you look at the 674 00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:02,266 numbers you mentioned District 1 675 00:18:02,266 --> 00:18:03,566 were Trevino won handedly 676 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,766 handily Nierenberg blue Brock 677 00:18:06,766 --> 00:18:07,800 House out of the water in 678 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:08,366 District 1. 679 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:09,933 Sixty five percent of the vote. 680 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,233 That was ten thousand votes cast 681 00:18:12,233 --> 00:18:13,933 whereas you look at District 9 682 00:18:13,966 --> 00:18:15,500 in District 10 which went to 683 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,333 Brock House traditionally whiter 684 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:20,233 older more conservative 685 00:18:20,233 --> 00:18:20,766 districts. 686 00:18:21,066 --> 00:18:22,966 Voter turnout was very high. 687 00:18:22,966 --> 00:18:24,233 And it has traditionally been 688 00:18:24,233 --> 00:18:25,933 very high in District 9 there 689 00:18:25,933 --> 00:18:27,866 were 18000 votes cast. 690 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,366 That's almost twice as many as 691 00:18:30,366 --> 00:18:32,300 cast votes in District 1. 692 00:18:32,333 --> 00:18:34,466 And I think you know anecdotally 693 00:18:34,966 --> 00:18:36,400 I talked to some folks. 694 00:18:38,733 --> 00:18:40,133 Who I know to be Nierenberg 695 00:18:40,133 --> 00:18:41,500 supporters on Saturday and said 696 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:42,466 Are you going out to vote? 697 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:43,900 And they said no I think I think 698 00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:44,933 the mayor has got this in the 699 00:18:44,933 --> 00:18:45,433 bag. 700 00:18:46,233 --> 00:18:47,566 And I said Well you know maybe a 701 00:18:47,566 --> 00:18:48,633 little closer than you think. 702 00:18:49,366 --> 00:18:50,933 So I think he's had a difficult 703 00:18:50,933 --> 00:18:54,100 time energizing people the way 704 00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:55,633 he did last time I remember 705 00:18:55,633 --> 00:18:58,066 going to his his watch party 706 00:18:58,500 --> 00:18:59,900 last time and there was a 707 00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:01,933 palpable excitement in the air. 708 00:19:02,666 --> 00:19:03,933 And I think a lot of that had to 709 00:19:03,933 --> 00:19:05,000 do with a certain number of 710 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,666 progressives Progressive's 711 00:19:05,666 --> 00:19:07,400 viewing this as the viewing that 712 00:19:07,433 --> 00:19:09,733 as the first election after the 713 00:19:09,733 --> 00:19:11,700 presidential win by Donald Trump 714 00:19:11,733 --> 00:19:13,233 and wanting to send a message 715 00:19:13,233 --> 00:19:14,800 locally that this is not 716 00:19:15,166 --> 00:19:16,033 something that they were willing 717 00:19:16,033 --> 00:19:17,733 to support this time around. 718 00:19:17,766 --> 00:19:18,533 I think it just been a little 719 00:19:18,533 --> 00:19:19,466 different people had been a 720 00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:20,800 little more indifferent. 721 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,633 Gilbert what do both Mayor 722 00:19:22,633 --> 00:19:23,666 Nierenberg and Councilman 723 00:19:23,666 --> 00:19:25,000 broadcast need to do in the next 724 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,833 month to win on June 8? 725 00:19:27,133 --> 00:19:27,933 Well I think. 726 00:19:28,666 --> 00:19:29,966 Speaker 2: Miriam number I think 727 00:19:30,133 --> 00:19:32,533 is a political progressive who's 728 00:19:32,533 --> 00:19:34,200 sort of a little bit sheepish 729 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:35,433 about it and I think he needs to 730 00:19:35,433 --> 00:19:37,966 sort of sort of own his 731 00:19:37,966 --> 00:19:38,866 political views. 732 00:19:38,966 --> 00:19:40,766 And I think you know one of the 733 00:19:40,766 --> 00:19:42,300 things that we saw was Texas 734 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:43,566 Organizing Project which I think 735 00:19:43,566 --> 00:19:44,766 has been a really powerful force 736 00:19:44,766 --> 00:19:47,800 in organizing voter turnout. 737 00:19:48,166 --> 00:19:51,100 And in the last two years or so 738 00:19:51,733 --> 00:19:53,066 they stayed on the fence on 739 00:19:53,066 --> 00:19:53,200 this. 740 00:19:53,333 --> 00:19:55,433 They may commit in the runoff 741 00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:56,600 but I think that he really needs 742 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,400 to to to galvanize support 743 00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:58,666 there. 744 00:19:59,300 --> 00:19:59,866 One of the things that 745 00:19:59,866 --> 00:20:01,933 fascinated me was District for 746 00:20:02,433 --> 00:20:02,866 Southwest. 747 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:03,800 That's Rachel Donahue's 748 00:20:03,833 --> 00:20:04,300 district. 749 00:20:04,633 --> 00:20:06,133 That's a that's a Democratic 750 00:20:06,133 --> 00:20:08,400 district a district that if we 751 00:20:08,466 --> 00:20:10,233 if we look at this as a Democrat 752 00:20:10,233 --> 00:20:12,300 versus Republican contest though 753 00:20:12,366 --> 00:20:13,733 they're nonpartisan technically. 754 00:20:14,333 --> 00:20:14,866 You would've thought that 755 00:20:14,866 --> 00:20:15,400 would've been a really good 756 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,600 district for Ron Norberg. 757 00:20:17,066 --> 00:20:18,266 Greg Brock House did very well 758 00:20:18,266 --> 00:20:18,500 there. 759 00:20:18,533 --> 00:20:20,200 And so there hasn't been the 760 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,100 kind of outreach that we saw 761 00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:23,566 from from the No campaign that 762 00:20:23,766 --> 00:20:25,100 he really went out to the 763 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:27,400 community south side west side 764 00:20:28,333 --> 00:20:29,800 two years ago in a way that I 765 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:30,666 don't think he's done this time. 766 00:20:30,933 --> 00:20:31,933 Speaker 1: Sanford what has to 767 00:20:31,933 --> 00:20:32,800 be done and also what is 768 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:33,633 broadcast have to do? 769 00:20:33,733 --> 00:20:35,100 Well I think there are two 770 00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:36,800 things that Nierenberg needs to 771 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,133 do and one of them is I think he 772 00:20:39,133 --> 00:20:39,900 needs to. 773 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 2: Realize that being 774 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:43,866 the smartest guy in the room is 775 00:20:43,866 --> 00:20:45,033 not necessarily going to get you 776 00:20:45,033 --> 00:20:45,600 elected. 777 00:20:45,633 --> 00:20:47,500 I think in the debates it was 778 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,833 very clear that he he felt 779 00:20:49,833 --> 00:20:51,633 passionately about these issues 780 00:20:51,633 --> 00:20:52,933 and put it put forth some big 781 00:20:52,933 --> 00:20:54,533 issues big ideas. 782 00:20:54,566 --> 00:20:55,966 Speaker 1: But that's voters are 783 00:20:55,966 --> 00:20:58,000 not as immersed in the policy 784 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,633 stuff as we are around this 785 00:20:59,633 --> 00:21:00,733 table necessarily. 786 00:21:01,033 --> 00:21:02,566 And so very often it's this gut 787 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:03,900 instinct about you know that 788 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:05,166 pothole on my street still 789 00:21:05,166 --> 00:21:05,966 hasn't been fixed. 790 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,000 I don't feel like I've gotten a 791 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,433 raise at my jobs or the economy 792 00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:09,233 is not very good. 793 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,100 And I think I think Nierenberg 794 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:12,600 needs to deliver. 795 00:21:13,233 --> 00:21:15,200 An explanation why why some of 796 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,766 his policies like this equity 797 00:21:17,033 --> 00:21:18,233 based budget or this 798 00:21:18,233 --> 00:21:19,633 transportation plan he's put 799 00:21:19,633 --> 00:21:20,566 forward how that's going to 800 00:21:20,566 --> 00:21:22,566 affect these these voters lives 801 00:21:22,766 --> 00:21:24,333 on a very personal level. 802 00:21:24,833 --> 00:21:26,066 Speaker 2: He needs to be less 803 00:21:26,066 --> 00:21:27,866 Mr. Spock and more James 804 00:21:27,866 --> 00:21:30,000 Tiberius and along those lines I 805 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,066 mean I've heard and I've even 806 00:21:31,133 --> 00:21:32,633 heard this from it from local 807 00:21:32,633 --> 00:21:34,166 Democrats who think supported 808 00:21:34,166 --> 00:21:36,233 him saying things like well you 809 00:21:36,233 --> 00:21:37,200 know he didn't stand up to 810 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,300 Sheryl Scully he's not tough 811 00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:38,533 enough. 812 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:39,833 And again whether that's fair or 813 00:21:39,833 --> 00:21:40,400 unfair. 814 00:21:41,166 --> 00:21:42,500 That I think kind of gets back 815 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:43,400 to the point Sanford made which 816 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,933 is that sometimes people operate 817 00:21:44,933 --> 00:21:46,600 on a gut level just this feeling 818 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:47,900 that you know he's not he's not 819 00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:49,533 standing up or he's not showing 820 00:21:49,533 --> 00:21:50,700 enough toughness or whatever. 821 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,900 And sometimes it comes down to 822 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:53,433 those kinds of things. 823 00:21:53,566 --> 00:21:53,900 Speaker 1: What would you 824 00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:54,866 anticipate Mike Brock? 825 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:56,766 Could I also before we get to 826 00:21:56,766 --> 00:21:59,500 that I also think Ron Nierenberg 827 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:01,500 needs to engage on a personal 828 00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:02,133 level with? 829 00:22:02,666 --> 00:22:04,400 With female voters because I 830 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,100 think he's got a clear advantage 831 00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:07,733 there when you look at at Brock 832 00:22:07,733 --> 00:22:09,633 House's the allegations of 833 00:22:09,633 --> 00:22:11,833 spousal abuse against him the 834 00:22:11,833 --> 00:22:15,500 reports on his record of failing 835 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:16,700 to pay child support. 836 00:22:17,066 --> 00:22:19,400 If you look at the video of him. 837 00:22:20,466 --> 00:22:22,000 Getting into it with two female 838 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,233 city council members Etihad 839 00:22:24,266 --> 00:22:25,433 burger over his treatment of 840 00:22:25,433 --> 00:22:26,900 Aimee hard Burger where she was 841 00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:28,533 going after that sores and see I 842 00:22:28,533 --> 00:22:30,400 think a lot of female voters. 843 00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:33,500 Could look at that and perceive 844 00:22:33,533 --> 00:22:35,800 not just that one of them is 845 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,400 damning but that together that 846 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,533 might establish a pattern that 847 00:22:40,533 --> 00:22:41,633 they don't approve of? 848 00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:42,900 And I think that's something 849 00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:44,633 that especially because some of 850 00:22:44,633 --> 00:22:46,166 the media in this town has been 851 00:22:46,166 --> 00:22:47,833 unwilling to bring it up I 852 00:22:47,833 --> 00:22:48,100 think. 853 00:22:48,333 --> 00:22:50,200 Nierenberg needs to address it 854 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,866 directly and I think he needs to 855 00:22:51,866 --> 00:22:53,900 address it in a manner that 856 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:56,133 convinces that female voters 857 00:22:56,166 --> 00:22:57,800 that that he he is a providing a 858 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,033 clear alternative to Gray. 859 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,066 So what does broadcast need to 860 00:23:01,066 --> 00:23:01,266 do? 861 00:23:01,266 --> 00:23:02,433 What how should he spend the 862 00:23:02,433 --> 00:23:02,766 next month? 863 00:23:03,233 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 2: Well you know a lot 864 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,600 of the the elements are in place 865 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,400 for a victory for him I mean if 866 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:10,966 you look at the three council 867 00:23:10,966 --> 00:23:12,300 districts that have runoffs 868 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:15,000 where we should see big turnout 869 00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:18,166 District 6 is his old district. 870 00:23:18,433 --> 00:23:19,633 He did really well there and 871 00:23:19,633 --> 00:23:20,500 should do well there in the 872 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:21,400 runoff District 4. 873 00:23:21,633 --> 00:23:24,100 He did surprisingly well in the 874 00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:26,133 first round District 2 on the 875 00:23:26,133 --> 00:23:26,600 east side. 876 00:23:26,633 --> 00:23:28,266 He he lost but it was relatively 877 00:23:28,266 --> 00:23:28,600 close. 878 00:23:29,033 --> 00:23:30,666 So I think that I mean his his 879 00:23:30,666 --> 00:23:32,400 campaign looks at it and thinks 880 00:23:32,566 --> 00:23:33,400 if we'd had another week we 881 00:23:33,466 --> 00:23:34,266 maybe we'll take this thing. 882 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:35,566 They think they ran out of time 883 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,066 and that give him another month 884 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,066 and it's going in their 885 00:23:38,066 --> 00:23:38,600 direction. 886 00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:41,600 And so you know the the elements 887 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:42,300 are there for him. 888 00:23:42,333 --> 00:23:43,466 I think the real question is 889 00:23:43,466 --> 00:23:46,033 whether people who sat out the 890 00:23:46,033 --> 00:23:48,533 first round because they you 891 00:23:48,533 --> 00:23:48,800 know they. 892 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,000 Were lukewarm about the mayor? 893 00:23:51,233 --> 00:23:52,633 Now look at it re-evaluate and 894 00:23:52,633 --> 00:23:54,700 think they don't want to count 895 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,233 Mayor Brock House and they may 896 00:23:56,366 --> 00:23:57,266 they may decide to vote. 897 00:23:57,466 --> 00:23:58,866 Speaker 1: Sanford broadcasts in 898 00:23:58,866 --> 00:24:00,100 the campaign hit the check fly 899 00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:00,700 issue hard. 900 00:24:00,733 --> 00:24:01,633 I think it probably paid 901 00:24:01,633 --> 00:24:02,466 benefits for him. 902 00:24:03,066 --> 00:24:03,866 That's the kind of thing that 903 00:24:03,866 --> 00:24:05,033 fire people up to vote. 904 00:24:05,366 --> 00:24:06,800 And you've got to get the voters 905 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:07,966 out to the polls will probably 906 00:24:07,966 --> 00:24:09,533 have another low turnout runoff. 907 00:24:10,133 --> 00:24:11,333 Do you expect him to continue to 908 00:24:11,333 --> 00:24:12,400 ride that horse all the way to 909 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:12,600 June? 910 00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: I think he'll try to. 911 00:24:14,066 --> 00:24:15,733 I although my suspicion is with 912 00:24:15,733 --> 00:24:17,466 the Chick Fillet thing it's 913 00:24:17,466 --> 00:24:18,700 probably reached the. 914 00:24:19,033 --> 00:24:19,966 You know probably reached a 915 00:24:19,966 --> 00:24:21,066 saturation point. 916 00:24:21,566 --> 00:24:23,066 You know I mean I think the way 917 00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:24,700 I see Chick fil A was that was a 918 00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:25,933 way for him to engage 919 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:27,933 evangelical voters who very 920 00:24:27,933 --> 00:24:30,400 often sit out local elections. 921 00:24:30,433 --> 00:24:31,666 I think you probably saw some 922 00:24:31,666 --> 00:24:32,833 people go out and vote for Brock 923 00:24:32,833 --> 00:24:34,433 House who normally would have. 924 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,133 Waited until 2020 to vote. 925 00:24:38,466 --> 00:24:39,966 And that clearly worked to his 926 00:24:39,966 --> 00:24:40,533 advantage. 927 00:24:40,633 --> 00:24:42,700 How big an advantage remains to 928 00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:44,233 be seen but I think I think for 929 00:24:44,233 --> 00:24:45,666 him to win he needs to continue 930 00:24:45,666 --> 00:24:47,266 doing what he's doing which is 931 00:24:47,266 --> 00:24:49,133 to be a good retail politician? 932 00:24:49,166 --> 00:24:50,500 Speaker 1: He face to face he 933 00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:51,800 really knows how to connect with 934 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,566 people and even people even his 935 00:24:53,566 --> 00:24:55,200 detractors would have to admit 936 00:24:55,233 --> 00:24:56,800 he's you know he's good at that 937 00:24:56,966 --> 00:24:58,266 and Gilbert he's hitting those 938 00:24:58,933 --> 00:25:01,166 lunch bucket issues where Mayor 939 00:25:01,166 --> 00:25:02,433 Nierenberg is out there talking 940 00:25:02,433 --> 00:25:04,200 about climate change in 2050 941 00:25:04,233 --> 00:25:05,133 he's talking about fixing your 942 00:25:05,133 --> 00:25:06,600 pothole road you know all 943 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,166 politics is local as Tip O'Neill 944 00:25:08,166 --> 00:25:08,433 said. 945 00:25:08,466 --> 00:25:09,300 Speaker 2: And it seems like he 946 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:11,233 handles local politics well and 947 00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:12,600 cutting property taxes now the 948 00:25:12,733 --> 00:25:14,633 the the actual result of what 949 00:25:14,633 --> 00:25:16,133 he's talking about would mean if 950 00:25:16,166 --> 00:25:18,400 the city made a cut in property 951 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,400 tax rates to be very small it 952 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,433 would have a very minuscule 953 00:25:22,433 --> 00:25:22,933 effect really. 954 00:25:23,033 --> 00:25:27,033 Most San Antonio wins but it 955 00:25:27,033 --> 00:25:27,666 resonates. 956 00:25:27,833 --> 00:25:29,600 You know people want to hear a 957 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,200 lot of people are scared about 958 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,666 their their property taxes and 959 00:25:32,666 --> 00:25:33,266 they want to hear that. 960 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:35,033 So yeah I do think I do think it 961 00:25:35,033 --> 00:25:35,466 resonates. 962 00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:36,933 Speaker 1: But you know if 963 00:25:36,933 --> 00:25:38,066 people look at the details they 964 00:25:38,066 --> 00:25:39,366 might question some of some of 965 00:25:39,366 --> 00:25:40,266 these things and I think that 966 00:25:40,266 --> 00:25:42,466 points to Greenberg's failure to 967 00:25:42,466 --> 00:25:43,866 connect with voters because if 968 00:25:43,866 --> 00:25:45,200 you talk about the potholes and 969 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,466 the lack of infrastructure and 970 00:25:46,466 --> 00:25:47,433 sidewalks and certain 971 00:25:47,433 --> 00:25:49,566 neighborhoods you know the 972 00:25:49,566 --> 00:25:52,500 equity lens that Nurenberg keeps 973 00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:53,766 talking about is a way to start 974 00:25:53,966 --> 00:25:55,500 to fix that stuff by bringing 975 00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:56,833 money into districts that have 976 00:25:56,833 --> 00:25:58,200 long been neglected. 977 00:25:58,666 --> 00:26:00,666 And I don't think Nierenberg has 978 00:26:00,666 --> 00:26:02,900 has used that as an effective 979 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:04,766 enough counter when Brickhouse 980 00:26:04,833 --> 00:26:05,333 brings up. 981 00:26:05,366 --> 00:26:06,266 We've got to do something about 982 00:26:06,266 --> 00:26:07,000 these sidewalks. 983 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,233 We've got to get back to basics. 984 00:26:08,266 --> 00:26:09,633 I think that should be no 985 00:26:09,666 --> 00:26:10,633 Greenberg's answer and I think 986 00:26:10,633 --> 00:26:11,666 she should do better at 987 00:26:11,666 --> 00:26:12,966 explaining that to voters. 988 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:13,433 Speaker 2: It'll be an 989 00:26:13,433 --> 00:26:14,666 interesting run up no doubt 990 00:26:14,666 --> 00:26:15,200 about it. 991 00:26:15,333 --> 00:26:16,533 Gilbert Garcia is the metro 992 00:26:16,533 --> 00:26:17,900 columnist from The San Antonio 993 00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:19,600 Express News SANFORD Dowlan 994 00:26:19,666 --> 00:26:20,933 editor in chief of the San 995 00:26:20,933 --> 00:26:21,666 Antonio Current. 996 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:22,933 Thank you for joining us and 997 00:26:22,933 --> 00:26:24,066 thank you for joining us this 998 00:26:24,066 --> 00:26:25,033 week on on the record. 999 00:26:25,333 --> 00:26:27,100 And keep in mind you can listen 1000 00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:28,233 to this show on your way to work 1001 00:26:28,233 --> 00:26:29,200 in the morning check out the 1002 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,333 podcast at Taylor N. dawg.