WEBVTT 00:06.508 --> 00:08.342 a fast growing fast moving 00:08.344 --> 00:09.910 community with something new 00:09.912 --> 00:11.278 happening almost every day. 00:11.280 --> 00:13.481 That's why each week I go right 00:13.483 --> 00:14.348 to the door with one of the 00:14.350 --> 00:16.050 newsmakers who is driving this 00:16.052 --> 00:18.586 train should throw joining us. 00:18.588 --> 00:20.888 Join us for the conversation a 00:20.890 --> 00:22.223 lively discussion with the 00:22.225 --> 00:24.158 reporters and community leaders 00:24.160 --> 00:26.227 about the issues that matter to 00:26.229 --> 00:28.562 us now as we go on the record. 00:28.564 --> 00:38.339 And now Jim forsight Hi I'm Jim 00:38.341 --> 00:40.708 Forsyth and welcome again to on 00:40.710 --> 00:42.443 the record on unrehearsed 00:42.445 --> 00:44.545 discussion of the key issues and 00:44.547 --> 00:46.647 challenges facing us today in 00:46.649 --> 00:47.481 San Antonio. 00:47.483 --> 00:49.283 Our guest today is Doug Melnick. 00:49.285 --> 00:51.285 He is the chief sustainability 00:51.287 --> 00:52.920 officer for the city of San 00:52.922 --> 00:53.220 Antonio. 00:53.222 --> 00:54.422 Doug thank you very much for 00:54.424 --> 00:56.190 joining us today on the record 00:56.192 --> 00:56.757 thank you for having me. 00:56.759 --> 00:58.159 Sustainability is a big 00:58.161 --> 00:58.626 mouthful. 00:58.628 --> 01:00.694 Can you tell us what it is how 01:00.696 --> 01:02.430 it will benefit us and how you 01:02.432 --> 01:04.165 plan on achieving it in the 01:04.167 --> 01:05.666 interests of making a better 01:05.668 --> 01:06.000 city. 01:06.002 --> 01:08.135 And that's one of the challenges 01:08.137 --> 01:09.270 that we have just what the term 01:09.272 --> 01:09.837 sustainability. 01:09.839 --> 01:11.539 It's pretty much a very all 01:11.541 --> 01:13.641 encompassing term and part of 01:13.643 --> 01:14.909 the keys is really defining it 01:14.911 --> 01:15.876 for San Antonio. 01:15.878 --> 01:17.411 And so as I've been here for the 01:17.413 --> 01:19.180 past four years working with 01:19.182 --> 01:20.448 internal departments working 01:20.450 --> 01:22.049 with community stakeholders 01:22.051 --> 01:22.683 working through different 01:22.685 --> 01:24.185 planning processes such as the 01:24.187 --> 01:26.353 SA tomorrow planning process 01:26.355 --> 01:27.988 really trying to pin down on 01:27.990 --> 01:29.657 what our major issues are and 01:29.659 --> 01:30.724 you know I think one of the big 01:30.726 --> 01:31.792 ones is growth. 01:31.794 --> 01:33.494 When we look at adding a million 01:33.496 --> 01:35.629 people by 2040 what does it 01:35.631 --> 01:35.996 mean. 01:35.998 --> 01:37.731 What does it mean for our 01:37.733 --> 01:38.499 roadways. 01:38.501 --> 01:39.834 What does it mean for our air 01:39.836 --> 01:40.301 quality. 01:40.303 --> 01:41.635 What does it mean for 01:41.637 --> 01:43.771 affordability for people being 01:43.773 --> 01:45.172 able to basically live in the 01:45.174 --> 01:46.173 homes that they've lived in for 01:46.175 --> 01:47.641 years or move here and find 01:47.643 --> 01:48.476 someplace to live. 01:48.478 --> 01:50.544 There's some pressing issues 01:50.546 --> 01:51.479 around climate change. 01:51.481 --> 01:53.848 What is our contribution to 01:53.850 --> 01:54.148 that. 01:54.150 --> 01:55.216 How is it going to impact us and 01:55.218 --> 01:55.749 what can we do. 01:55.751 --> 01:57.418 So I think one of the things 01:57.420 --> 01:59.186 we're really trying to translate 01:59.188 --> 02:00.654 sustainability into is what it 02:00.656 --> 02:01.989 means for people's lives. 02:01.991 --> 02:03.657 Now what are the problems with 02:03.659 --> 02:05.192 issues like sustainability is 02:05.194 --> 02:07.461 when the average person hears it 02:07.463 --> 02:09.396 frequently their reaction is 02:09.398 --> 02:11.198 they want to take away my right 02:11.200 --> 02:12.600 to do something that I enjoy 02:12.602 --> 02:12.967 doing. 02:12.969 --> 02:14.502 They want to force me to get out 02:14.504 --> 02:14.969 of my car. 02:14.971 --> 02:16.237 They want to make it so I can't 02:16.239 --> 02:18.038 live on two and a half acres in 02:18.040 --> 02:20.107 the outskirts of town that I 02:20.109 --> 02:21.408 have to change my barbecue 02:21.410 --> 02:22.676 patterns or something like that. 02:22.678 --> 02:23.043 Right. 02:23.045 --> 02:24.945 Talk a little bit about what 02:24.947 --> 02:27.214 sustainability really means and 02:27.216 --> 02:28.616 reassurance that you're not here 02:28.618 --> 02:29.917 to essentially take our rights 02:29.919 --> 02:30.151 away. 02:30.153 --> 02:31.819 And that's and that's absolutely 02:31.821 --> 02:32.086 key. 02:32.088 --> 02:33.287 It's about the value 02:33.289 --> 02:33.921 proposition. 02:33.923 --> 02:37.558 It's about translating things 02:37.560 --> 02:39.693 that we should be doing because 02:39.695 --> 02:40.828 they have multiple other 02:40.830 --> 02:41.929 benefits other than just 02:41.931 --> 02:42.630 sustainability. 02:42.632 --> 02:45.466 A simple example could be street 02:45.468 --> 02:45.833 trees. 02:45.835 --> 02:47.668 The humble street tree. 02:47.670 --> 02:50.171 Lots of people might not want a 02:50.173 --> 02:50.437 tree. 02:50.439 --> 02:51.839 They might need to drop their 02:51.841 --> 02:53.474 leaves they might drop fruit. 02:53.476 --> 02:55.910 They have to be maintained. 02:55.912 --> 02:57.344 But when we look at their value 02:57.346 --> 02:59.680 in terms of air quality a tree 02:59.682 --> 03:01.148 lined street improves property 03:01.150 --> 03:04.018 values a tree lined streets if 03:04.020 --> 03:06.187 designs well can help reduce 03:06.189 --> 03:07.788 stormwater runoff and reduce 03:07.790 --> 03:08.422 flooding risk. 03:08.424 --> 03:09.890 So I think it's about 03:09.892 --> 03:11.959 translating these things that 03:11.961 --> 03:14.128 may seem like burdens into 03:14.130 --> 03:15.029 benefits for different 03:15.031 --> 03:15.563 stakeholders. 03:15.565 --> 03:16.730 Well let's talk about them the 03:16.732 --> 03:17.798 challenges that we're facing. 03:17.800 --> 03:19.200 Let's start first of all with 03:19.202 --> 03:20.234 the fact that we are out of 03:20.236 --> 03:22.136 attainment with the EPA for our 03:22.138 --> 03:22.903 air quality. 03:22.905 --> 03:26.640 How serious is that and how do 03:26.642 --> 03:27.841 you think that we should move 03:27.843 --> 03:29.410 more efficiently to get back 03:29.412 --> 03:30.844 into that compliance 03:30.846 --> 03:33.013 And I think that's a big issue. 03:33.015 --> 03:35.849 I think there's a couple of you 03:35.851 --> 03:38.319 know impacts associated with 03:38.321 --> 03:38.552 that. 03:38.554 --> 03:39.687 I think the most important thing 03:39.689 --> 03:40.588 we need to remember is that the 03:40.590 --> 03:41.956 end of the day the reason why we 03:41.958 --> 03:44.925 have this EPA ozone standard is 03:44.927 --> 03:45.826 it's about public health. 03:45.828 --> 03:50.164 And if if we don't reduce our 03:50.166 --> 03:54.001 ozone ground level ozone numbers 03:54.003 --> 03:55.436 you know it's going to impact 03:55.438 --> 03:56.537 people it's going to impact 03:56.539 --> 03:59.707 people's children's asthma rates 03:59.709 --> 04:01.909 it's going to impact people 04:01.911 --> 04:04.345 having to miss work or school. 04:04.347 --> 04:06.046 So we have to really realize 04:06.048 --> 04:06.313 that. 04:06.315 --> 04:07.848 But at the same time there's 04:07.850 --> 04:09.750 economic impacts with 04:09.752 --> 04:11.852 designation comes regulatory 04:11.854 --> 04:13.921 requirements from the EPA where 04:13.923 --> 04:15.089 we are now is at the lowest 04:15.091 --> 04:16.323 level at marginal. 04:16.325 --> 04:18.459 So we really have sort of 04:18.461 --> 04:19.760 skirted sort of the worst of 04:19.762 --> 04:21.528 those impacts. 04:21.530 --> 04:23.397 However if we don't make the 04:23.399 --> 04:24.398 necessary changes and 04:24.400 --> 04:26.300 adjustments quickly we will be 04:26.302 --> 04:28.602 moved up to a higher category. 04:28.604 --> 04:30.838 So I think what we're doing now 04:30.840 --> 04:33.207 is really trying to mobilize 04:33.209 --> 04:36.977 know internal departmental 04:36.979 --> 04:39.246 players community partners 04:39.248 --> 04:41.749 community stakeholders business 04:41.751 --> 04:43.450 industry residents 04:43.452 --> 04:45.419 transportation sector and really 04:45.421 --> 04:46.520 start having conversations 04:46.522 --> 04:47.788 around how do we start getting 04:47.790 --> 04:50.024 our handle handle on this and 04:50.026 --> 04:52.126 start making adjustments and how 04:52.128 --> 04:54.161 basically we're we're moving 04:54.163 --> 04:54.828 around the city. 04:54.830 --> 04:57.431 How if there's opportunities to 04:57.433 --> 04:58.799 adjust our business operations 04:58.801 --> 05:01.568 around key ozone days and really 05:01.570 --> 05:02.703 do everything we can to make 05:02.705 --> 05:04.505 sure that we reach attainment as 05:04.507 --> 05:05.239 quickly as possible. 05:05.241 --> 05:07.508 Whenever we run a story about 05:07.510 --> 05:09.076 sustainability or about air 05:09.078 --> 05:10.878 quality problems or anything the 05:10.880 --> 05:13.447 reaction that we get is they 05:13.449 --> 05:15.115 want to get me out of my car and 05:15.117 --> 05:16.317 they want me to take a bus and I 05:16.319 --> 05:17.484 don't want to take a bus. 05:17.486 --> 05:19.286 How do we get over that. 05:19.288 --> 05:20.688 Or is it important to get over. 05:20.690 --> 05:22.089 You know I think we have to look 05:22.091 --> 05:22.790 at everything. 05:22.792 --> 05:25.292 There's not one easy answer or a 05:25.294 --> 05:26.727 solution to air quality. 05:26.729 --> 05:27.961 I think it's a lots of different 05:27.963 --> 05:28.228 things. 05:28.230 --> 05:29.897 And I think when we start 05:29.899 --> 05:31.765 talking about people having to 05:31.767 --> 05:33.767 get out of their vehicles I 05:33.769 --> 05:35.235 think the first question that I 05:35.237 --> 05:37.371 would ask is is the 05:37.373 --> 05:38.939 transportation system and or the 05:38.941 --> 05:40.974 transportation options there to 05:40.976 --> 05:42.109 allow people to make that 05:42.111 --> 05:42.409 decision. 05:42.411 --> 05:43.711 And I know that's a major 05:43.713 --> 05:45.346 initiative of mayor and city 05:45.348 --> 05:47.181 council and different partners 05:47.183 --> 05:48.482 as you know we need to build 05:48.484 --> 05:49.950 that modern transportation 05:49.952 --> 05:51.385 system so people have that 05:51.387 --> 05:51.885 option. 05:51.887 --> 05:54.755 You know at the end of the day 05:54.757 --> 05:58.058 you asking somebody to double 05:58.060 --> 06:01.762 their commute because it's going 06:01.764 --> 06:03.564 to help improve the air the air 06:03.566 --> 06:04.798 quality and our environment 06:04.800 --> 06:07.501 while it is a laudable request 06:07.503 --> 06:08.736 it may not be practical. 06:08.738 --> 06:10.604 So I think you know when we 06:10.606 --> 06:12.773 start looking at tackling air 06:12.775 --> 06:13.807 quality it's related to 06:13.809 --> 06:14.942 everything else that's related 06:14.944 --> 06:18.278 to our transportation system our 06:18.280 --> 06:19.313 growth patterns. 06:19.315 --> 06:20.914 And that's why the work of 06:20.916 --> 06:22.516 bridge and Bridget White and the 06:22.518 --> 06:23.717 planning to our department 06:23.719 --> 06:24.752 around looking at regional 06:24.754 --> 06:26.186 center planning and connecting 06:26.188 --> 06:28.088 those regional centers by high 06:28.090 --> 06:31.125 capacity transit we need to make 06:31.127 --> 06:32.626 smart decisions going forward to 06:32.628 --> 06:34.528 provide people the real 06:34.530 --> 06:35.829 opportunity to make different 06:35.831 --> 06:36.196 decisions. 06:36.198 --> 06:37.731 As you mentioned the mayor and 06:37.733 --> 06:38.766 the county judge will have a 06:38.768 --> 06:40.334 major transportation initiative 06:40.336 --> 06:41.769 on the ballot in 2019. 06:41.771 --> 06:43.103 What would you from where you 06:43.105 --> 06:45.205 sit like to see as part of that 06:45.207 --> 06:45.672 initiative. 06:45.674 --> 06:46.907 You know I think at the end of 06:46.909 --> 06:48.609 the day you know we're in the 06:48.611 --> 06:50.844 midst of a major climate 06:50.846 --> 06:52.312 planning initiative called essay 06:52.314 --> 06:55.082 climate ready and you know the 06:55.084 --> 06:57.418 goal of that is twofold It's to 06:57.420 --> 06:59.353 reduce our greenhouse gas 06:59.355 --> 07:00.487 emissions that are contributing 07:00.489 --> 07:03.157 to global climate change and 07:03.159 --> 07:04.091 basically preparing our 07:04.093 --> 07:05.859 community for those impacts when 07:05.861 --> 07:07.461 we start digging into the data 07:07.463 --> 07:08.562 and we start looking at where 07:08.564 --> 07:10.330 those emissions come from you 07:10.332 --> 07:12.032 know from our community side. 07:12.034 --> 07:13.901 You know almost 50 percent come 07:13.903 --> 07:16.437 from buildings and then the 07:16.439 --> 07:18.472 second part is just about 40 07:18.474 --> 07:20.441 percent come from transportation 07:20.443 --> 07:21.408 of that 40 percent. 07:21.410 --> 07:24.645 The majority is from passenger 07:24.647 --> 07:24.978 vehicles. 07:24.980 --> 07:27.748 So I think whatever this 07:27.750 --> 07:29.249 proposal is that's put before 07:29.251 --> 07:33.253 the taxpayers has to provide 07:33.255 --> 07:35.389 those diverse options to give as 07:35.391 --> 07:37.024 many people the ability to take 07:37.026 --> 07:39.493 different modes whether it's 07:39.495 --> 07:40.527 some sort of high capacity 07:40.529 --> 07:42.930 transit whether it's a an 07:42.932 --> 07:46.867 integrated priority bike system 07:46.869 --> 07:48.502 whether it's just a you know 07:48.504 --> 07:50.571 very well connected system of 07:50.573 --> 07:51.004 sidewalks. 07:51.006 --> 07:53.841 We need to make sure that all 07:53.843 --> 07:56.143 users have different choices 07:56.145 --> 07:57.778 other than I just need to rely 07:57.780 --> 07:59.112 on my single occupancy vehicle. 07:59.114 --> 08:00.981 Now people like their single 08:00.983 --> 08:02.850 occupancy vehicles they've grown 08:02.852 --> 08:03.383 up with them. 08:03.385 --> 08:05.419 It's almost a birthright 08:05.421 --> 08:07.254 especially in Texas to be able 08:07.256 --> 08:08.655 to drive to work in your car. 08:08.657 --> 08:10.257 Do you feel that if those 08:10.259 --> 08:12.826 options were available that a 08:12.828 --> 08:14.795 large number of San Antonians 08:14.797 --> 08:16.196 would give up that birthright 08:16.198 --> 08:17.064 and be willing to try 08:17.066 --> 08:17.564 alternatives. 08:17.566 --> 08:20.634 You know it's about options and 08:20.636 --> 08:21.702 being able to take a look at 08:21.704 --> 08:22.903 what they are and evaluate 08:22.905 --> 08:24.137 whether it's better than what 08:24.139 --> 08:25.772 you have now I think you know me 08:25.774 --> 08:26.540 personally. 08:26.542 --> 08:30.210 I would like to think that if 08:30.212 --> 08:31.879 given the option of sitting in 08:31.881 --> 08:34.915 my car in traffic a couple of 08:34.917 --> 08:39.586 times a day with unproductive 08:39.588 --> 08:41.088 time as opposed to if there was 08:41.090 --> 08:42.556 high quality transit there was 08:42.558 --> 08:43.290 going to get me to where I 08:43.292 --> 08:44.391 needed to go faster. 08:44.393 --> 08:46.059 I might make that different 08:46.061 --> 08:46.527 choice. 08:46.529 --> 08:48.829 Now obviously the highways are a 08:48.831 --> 08:49.496 problem now. 08:49.498 --> 08:50.697 We're talking about a million 08:50.699 --> 08:51.932 more people being in this 08:51.934 --> 08:54.034 community in the next 22 years. 08:54.036 --> 08:56.003 Not a whole long time from now. 08:56.005 --> 08:57.304 How could we deal with that. 08:57.306 --> 08:59.439 I mean we continue to be a place 08:59.441 --> 09:01.041 attracting folks from all over 09:01.043 --> 09:02.409 the country continue to be a 09:02.411 --> 09:03.210 magnet city. 09:03.212 --> 09:04.778 But that has its downside. 09:04.780 --> 09:06.413 And much of that falls on you. 09:06.415 --> 09:08.749 What are some of your proposals 09:08.751 --> 09:09.349 to deal with it. 09:09.351 --> 09:10.684 You know I think one of the 09:10.686 --> 09:13.053 things about the work that I do 09:13.055 --> 09:16.423 in sustainability is we walk we 09:16.425 --> 09:17.558 work across departments. 09:17.560 --> 09:20.260 So one of the things that we do 09:20.262 --> 09:22.796 is really try to help facilitate 09:22.798 --> 09:25.098 sort of inter departmental 09:25.100 --> 09:25.499 thinking. 09:25.501 --> 09:27.134 And so the work's already going 09:27.136 --> 09:28.068 on in these departments 09:28.070 --> 09:28.802 particularly when you start 09:28.804 --> 09:29.536 talking about some of these 09:29.538 --> 09:31.838 transportation issues you know 09:31.840 --> 09:33.640 building a modern transportation 09:33.642 --> 09:34.641 system is going to take time. 09:34.643 --> 09:37.477 In the interim you know things 09:37.479 --> 09:38.645 that are currently being worked 09:38.647 --> 09:40.614 on by our transportation capital 09:40.616 --> 09:41.982 improvement department is 09:41.984 --> 09:43.383 something called Transportation 09:43.385 --> 09:45.852 demand management working with 09:45.854 --> 09:48.288 major employers to provide as 09:48.290 --> 09:50.691 many opportunities for their 09:50.693 --> 09:51.825 employees to take different 09:51.827 --> 09:52.893 transportation options it could 09:52.895 --> 09:55.295 be incentivizing carpooling. 09:55.297 --> 09:57.230 It could be providing free or 09:57.232 --> 09:59.366 reduced transit passes it could 09:59.368 --> 10:02.135 be allowing remote work or 10:02.137 --> 10:03.971 compressed work weeks so I think 10:03.973 --> 10:05.005 we need to go deep into the 10:05.007 --> 10:07.240 toolbox and figure out what 10:07.242 --> 10:10.277 options we have other priorities 10:10.279 --> 10:11.511 that we have that are sort of 10:11.513 --> 10:13.113 we're beginning to work on is 10:13.115 --> 10:14.748 the whole idea of electrifying 10:14.750 --> 10:18.251 our city in terms of providing 10:18.253 --> 10:19.820 that infrastructure for people 10:19.822 --> 10:22.155 to shift towards more efficient 10:22.157 --> 10:23.090 electric vehicles. 10:23.092 --> 10:24.825 So there's I think there's lots 10:24.827 --> 10:26.059 that we can do now that will 10:26.061 --> 10:28.562 help mitigate some of those 10:28.564 --> 10:30.364 impacts from the exploding 10:30.366 --> 10:30.764 growth. 10:30.766 --> 10:32.432 I think one of the really 10:32.434 --> 10:33.533 important things is really 10:33.535 --> 10:34.968 having a community conversation 10:34.970 --> 10:36.770 around where we really need to 10:36.772 --> 10:41.174 be in the next 15 20 years to to 10:41.176 --> 10:42.409 get ahead of that growth. 10:42.411 --> 10:44.478 To wrap this up I'd like to blue 10:44.480 --> 10:45.679 sky a little bit with you. 10:45.681 --> 10:48.048 Let's imagine that this is now 10:48.050 --> 10:49.950 September 26 of 2014. 10:49.952 --> 10:52.719 I walk outside this building on 10:52.721 --> 10:54.655 Broadway just north of downtown. 10:54.657 --> 10:57.624 How will the world icee be 10:57.626 --> 10:58.158 different. 10:58.160 --> 11:00.360 What will I see then that I 11:00.362 --> 11:02.863 won't see now how will my daily 11:02.865 --> 11:03.797 life be different. 11:03.799 --> 11:06.133 How will the mechanics that I 11:06.135 --> 11:08.101 use to navigate my daily life be 11:08.103 --> 11:10.137 different in your opinion in the 11:10.139 --> 11:12.005 interest of sustainability. 11:12.007 --> 11:13.507 How do you see that evolving. 11:13.509 --> 11:15.242 I think one thing that pops into 11:15.244 --> 11:17.244 my head is just as a simple 11:17.246 --> 11:18.378 notion when you walk outside 11:18.380 --> 11:21.848 that door you know you are in a 11:21.850 --> 11:23.283 what is a sustainable city in a 11:23.285 --> 11:25.385 city that embraces that concept. 11:25.387 --> 11:26.453 I think when we go to different 11:26.455 --> 11:28.121 cities across the country and 11:28.123 --> 11:29.756 around the world you get that 11:29.758 --> 11:32.359 vibe that clearly this is a city 11:32.361 --> 11:34.161 that's embrace embracing that 11:34.163 --> 11:34.528 thinking. 11:34.530 --> 11:37.497 I think you see more people on 11:37.499 --> 11:39.332 bikes I think the streets are 11:39.334 --> 11:40.834 going to be more crowded because 11:40.836 --> 11:41.868 there's more people here. 11:41.870 --> 11:43.937 I think you're going to see high 11:43.939 --> 11:45.806 capacity transit going up and 11:45.808 --> 11:46.640 down the streets. 11:46.642 --> 11:49.643 You're going to see more robust 11:49.645 --> 11:51.311 mature street trees and green 11:51.313 --> 11:52.646 infrastructure managing that 11:52.648 --> 11:53.346 stormwater. 11:53.348 --> 11:56.249 You're going to see solar panels 11:56.251 --> 11:57.684 on buildings you can see a smart 11:57.686 --> 11:59.486 city a city that is connected 11:59.488 --> 12:01.288 where you basically take out 12:01.290 --> 12:02.889 whatever smart device you happen 12:02.891 --> 12:03.323 to have. 12:03.325 --> 12:06.460 And it's going to tell you where 12:06.462 --> 12:08.061 you need to go from A to B. 12:08.063 --> 12:09.396 Here's the quickest way that 12:09.398 --> 12:10.163 you're going to do it. 12:10.165 --> 12:15.368 Maybe even smart kiosks around 12:15.370 --> 12:16.269 the city that are telling you 12:16.271 --> 12:18.138 current air quality measurements 12:18.140 --> 12:20.540 or current renewable energy 12:20.542 --> 12:22.442 that's being generated by the 12:22.444 --> 12:23.443 city in real time. 12:23.445 --> 12:24.978 So I think it's a city that's 12:24.980 --> 12:26.113 basically going to be more in 12:26.115 --> 12:28.248 tune with what a sustainable 12:28.250 --> 12:28.682 city is. 12:28.684 --> 12:29.449 Thank you very much. 12:29.451 --> 12:30.550 Sounds like an interesting 12:30.552 --> 12:30.817 future. 12:30.819 --> 12:32.052 Doug Melnick is the chief 12:32.054 --> 12:33.920 sustainability officer for the 12:33.922 --> 12:34.755 city of San Antonio. 12:34.757 --> 12:36.089 Thank you very much for joining 12:36.091 --> 12:37.390 us today on the record. 12:37.392 --> 12:38.425 And stick around the 12:38.427 --> 12:40.160 conversation is coming up next. 12:40.162 --> 12:46.466 And welcome to the conversation. 12:46.468 --> 12:48.101 Let me introduce our all star 12:48.103 --> 12:48.969 panel for today. 12:48.971 --> 12:50.103 I'd like to welcome Brian 12:50.105 --> 12:52.305 Chesnoff who is the metro 12:52.307 --> 12:54.007 columnist for The San Antonio 12:54.009 --> 12:55.642 Express News and also from the 12:55.644 --> 12:57.410 San Antonio Express News senior 12:57.412 --> 12:58.311 reporter Josh Baugh 12:58.313 --> 12:59.746 Thank you both very much for 12:59.748 --> 13:02.149 joining us in a very busy week 13:02.151 --> 13:03.383 here in the conversation. 13:03.385 --> 13:05.952 If I could just ask both of you. 13:05.954 --> 13:08.889 What happened last Thursday 13:08.891 --> 13:11.224 night in what was supposed to be 13:11.226 --> 13:13.293 a town hall meeting to discuss 13:13.295 --> 13:14.628 the three charter amendments 13:14.630 --> 13:15.962 proposed by the firefighters 13:15.964 --> 13:16.296 union. 13:16.298 --> 13:18.632 And what does that tell us about 13:18.634 --> 13:19.766 where we stand about the 13:19.768 --> 13:21.701 dynamics and potential future of 13:21.703 --> 13:23.403 this very very divisive issue. 13:23.405 --> 13:24.704 Well I mean I think that you 13:24.706 --> 13:26.473 know there's a town hall meeting 13:26.475 --> 13:27.707 that was scheduled for 7:00 p.m. 13:27.709 --> 13:28.408 on Thursday night. 13:28.410 --> 13:29.810 It was supposed to feature mayor 13:29.812 --> 13:31.912 run near Breard union President 13:31.914 --> 13:33.680 Chris Steel and Frank Garza who 13:33.682 --> 13:35.282 is a municipal law expert and 13:35.284 --> 13:35.649 attorney. 13:35.651 --> 13:37.651 People had already started to go 13:37.653 --> 13:39.519 into the facility at UTSA 13:39.521 --> 13:42.122 downtown campus in preparation 13:42.124 --> 13:44.491 for this town hall to take place 13:44.493 --> 13:46.960 and about two hours before the 13:46.962 --> 13:48.428 event was supposed to kick off 13:48.430 --> 13:49.896 Chris Steele told the moderator 13:49.898 --> 13:52.098 through an associate that he was 13:52.100 --> 13:53.133 not going to show up and they're 13:53.135 --> 13:54.134 going try to send somebody in 13:54.136 --> 13:54.668 his stead. 13:54.670 --> 13:57.270 And at that point the mayor 13:57.272 --> 13:59.139 declined to participate as well 13:59.141 --> 14:01.308 because the whole town hall 14:01.310 --> 14:02.809 event that was sponsored by UTSA 14:02.811 --> 14:04.477 and the Santin Express News had 14:04.479 --> 14:06.279 been billed as a debate between 14:06.281 --> 14:07.547 Chris Steele and Ron Nuremburg. 14:07.549 --> 14:09.449 So why would the mayor Brian 14:09.451 --> 14:12.319 miss an opportunity to speak to 14:12.321 --> 14:14.454 an engage group about why he 14:14.456 --> 14:15.622 thinks these charter amendments 14:15.624 --> 14:16.256 should be defeated. 14:16.258 --> 14:17.691 Well I think it highlighted the 14:17.693 --> 14:19.025 fact that Christie is the one 14:19.027 --> 14:21.728 who bailed out and sabotaged the 14:21.730 --> 14:23.096 entire debate himself. 14:23.098 --> 14:25.565 There's a there's a term that 14:25.567 --> 14:27.934 was coined after what went down 14:27.936 --> 14:30.770 in the 2016 presidential 14:30.772 --> 14:32.439 election with Russian 14:32.441 --> 14:34.040 interference in the back 14:34.042 --> 14:37.110 campaign discourse saboteurs and 14:37.112 --> 14:38.378 I think that Chris Steele 14:38.380 --> 14:40.547 embodies that he is not 14:40.549 --> 14:43.116 interested in having an honest 14:43.118 --> 14:44.317 discussion about these 14:44.319 --> 14:46.253 amendments that his own union 14:46.255 --> 14:47.020 has proposed. 14:47.022 --> 14:49.990 Instead he is playing dirty 14:49.992 --> 14:50.323 tricks. 14:50.325 --> 14:52.959 He is he he's trying to short 14:52.961 --> 14:54.895 circuit an honest debate about 14:54.897 --> 14:55.829 what these amendments would 14:55.831 --> 14:56.429 actually do. 14:56.431 --> 14:58.365 I think what was kind of amazing 14:58.367 --> 15:00.133 about the situation was that you 15:00.135 --> 15:01.434 know I think both sides probably 15:01.436 --> 15:02.702 attempted to pack the house 15:02.704 --> 15:03.403 there's a limited number of 15:03.405 --> 15:04.337 seating there prepare for 15:04.339 --> 15:05.171 overflow seating. 15:05.173 --> 15:10.443 And and you know the pro charter 15:10.445 --> 15:12.212 amendment people who were there 15:12.214 --> 15:13.480 began chanting Where's the 15:13.482 --> 15:13.980 mayor. 15:13.982 --> 15:16.316 There's a retired firefighter 15:16.318 --> 15:17.684 who's very active in the 15:17.686 --> 15:18.518 campaign for the charter 15:18.520 --> 15:19.286 amendments he went on to 15:19.288 --> 15:21.988 Facebook Live and was was 15:21.990 --> 15:24.157 casting the episode as being 15:24.159 --> 15:25.191 that the mayor didn't show up 15:25.193 --> 15:27.460 because the union had Renette 15:27.462 --> 15:29.129 King available to debate. 15:29.131 --> 15:32.232 And so there was just two 15:32.234 --> 15:35.135 completely opposite narratives 15:35.137 --> 15:36.636 of what actually took place in 15:36.638 --> 15:39.339 the end the fire union and its 15:39.341 --> 15:41.007 allies were pushing this idea 15:41.009 --> 15:42.609 that the mayor bailed and that 15:42.611 --> 15:43.977 it wasn't Chris Steele who 15:43.979 --> 15:44.911 walked away from it from the 15:44.913 --> 15:45.378 beginning. 15:45.380 --> 15:47.414 Now Brian the point that the 15:47.416 --> 15:49.416 fire union made was that the 15:49.418 --> 15:51.117 fire union gathered the petition 15:51.119 --> 15:52.419 signatures to get this on the 15:52.421 --> 15:52.819 ballot. 15:52.821 --> 15:54.421 But now that it's on the ballot 15:54.423 --> 15:55.722 now that it's being endorsed by 15:55.724 --> 15:57.924 some entities their argument is 15:57.926 --> 15:59.659 that it's now no longer a 15:59.661 --> 16:00.727 firefighter's issue. 16:00.729 --> 16:03.196 It's now the approved by 16:03.198 --> 16:05.332 Citizens Committee which Ms King 16:05.334 --> 16:05.999 represented. 16:06.001 --> 16:08.935 So it's not right to cast 16:08.937 --> 16:10.770 aspersions on Chief Steele for 16:10.772 --> 16:11.838 not showing up at the debate 16:11.840 --> 16:13.340 because he's done his job. 16:13.342 --> 16:14.741 He's heading off to Baton to 16:14.743 --> 16:15.442 somebody else. 16:15.444 --> 16:16.977 It was just clearly a dirty 16:16.979 --> 16:19.045 trick to bail out two hours 16:19.047 --> 16:20.847 before the debate started. 16:20.849 --> 16:22.949 It was I believe it was a 16:22.951 --> 16:24.985 deliberate effort to throw it 16:24.987 --> 16:26.553 into chaos and try to flip the 16:26.555 --> 16:29.189 script and just so chaos and 16:29.191 --> 16:29.589 division. 16:29.591 --> 16:31.391 So where does that lead us Josh. 16:31.393 --> 16:33.460 Well that's a good question. 16:33.462 --> 16:34.861 I don't think anybody knows the 16:34.863 --> 16:35.195 answer. 16:35.197 --> 16:35.962 There are other news 16:35.964 --> 16:36.997 organizations that are 16:36.999 --> 16:38.231 attempting to put together 16:38.233 --> 16:39.799 debates between Chris Steele and 16:39.801 --> 16:40.533 Ron Nierenberg. 16:40.535 --> 16:42.969 And whether that actually 16:42.971 --> 16:45.038 happens I think is unknown. 16:45.040 --> 16:48.608 I'm not sure that the the go 16:48.610 --> 16:50.643 vote no campaign or run 16:50.645 --> 16:52.312 Nierenberg are interested in 16:52.314 --> 16:53.213 debating that. 16:53.215 --> 16:56.349 King RanIt forget her or what 16:56.351 --> 16:57.117 her last name is now. 16:57.119 --> 16:59.319 But she's you know a former 16:59.321 --> 17:00.920 district 10 candidate she had 17:00.922 --> 17:02.622 run for commissioners court. 17:02.624 --> 17:04.290 You and I have been I think 17:04.292 --> 17:06.192 virtually every press conference 17:06.194 --> 17:07.127 that's been held by the fire 17:07.129 --> 17:08.328 unions since this campaign 17:08.330 --> 17:09.362 kicked off in the spring. 17:09.364 --> 17:11.965 And I think we can recall seeing 17:11.967 --> 17:14.134 RadNet and many of those press 17:14.136 --> 17:15.268 conferences but never once has 17:15.270 --> 17:16.836 she been thrust out to the 17:16.838 --> 17:18.304 lectern and asked to speak on 17:18.306 --> 17:20.440 behalf of this group to a tee. 17:20.442 --> 17:21.875 It has been Chris Steele 17:21.877 --> 17:23.777 speaking on behalf of the Union 17:23.779 --> 17:25.378 and on behalf of the campaign 17:25.380 --> 17:26.546 San Antonio first campaign. 17:26.548 --> 17:29.582 Nobody in that association has 17:29.584 --> 17:30.483 ever been willing to go on the 17:30.485 --> 17:32.218 record and make any kind of 17:32.220 --> 17:33.486 statements regarding any of this 17:33.488 --> 17:35.088 stuff other than Chris Steele. 17:35.090 --> 17:37.390 And so you know it's fine to 17:37.392 --> 17:38.258 have a spokesman. 17:38.260 --> 17:39.726 And there's nothing wrong. 17:39.728 --> 17:41.194 Nobody's suggesting that you 17:41.196 --> 17:42.562 shouldn't have a spokesman but 17:42.564 --> 17:45.298 it was a very abrupt moment 17:45.300 --> 17:47.067 where she was rushed into the 17:47.069 --> 17:48.468 union is still arguing that this 17:48.470 --> 17:50.503 is a firefighters campaign. 17:50.505 --> 17:52.205 At the bare County Democratic 17:52.207 --> 17:53.006 headquarters where they 17:53.008 --> 17:55.575 announced just last week that 17:55.577 --> 17:57.544 the party had endorsed 17:57.546 --> 17:59.112 supporting the amendments. 17:59.114 --> 18:00.814 They framed it in that manner. 18:00.816 --> 18:03.283 They said the firefighters are 18:03.285 --> 18:04.984 heroes and do this for the 18:04.986 --> 18:05.585 firefighters. 18:05.587 --> 18:06.686 They're clearly playing the 18:06.688 --> 18:07.387 firefighter card. 18:07.389 --> 18:08.388 Firefighters being 18:08.390 --> 18:09.956 overwhelmingly the most 18:09.958 --> 18:11.524 universally popular city 18:11.526 --> 18:11.958 employees. 18:11.960 --> 18:14.727 Obviously the three proposals 18:14.729 --> 18:15.728 that will be on the ballot in 18:15.730 --> 18:16.229 November. 18:16.231 --> 18:18.431 One of them would cut the salary 18:18.433 --> 18:20.533 of a future city manager not the 18:20.535 --> 18:21.501 current city manager. 18:21.503 --> 18:23.903 The second one would allow 18:23.905 --> 18:26.039 referenda on what city council 18:26.041 --> 18:27.607 does and the third is a very 18:27.609 --> 18:29.342 narrowly worded proposal that 18:29.344 --> 18:31.077 would require disputes between 18:31.079 --> 18:32.212 the union and the city to be 18:32.214 --> 18:33.413 settled by binding arbitration. 18:33.415 --> 18:35.215 Now Josh you say you've done 18:35.217 --> 18:36.382 reporting that indicates that 18:36.384 --> 18:38.985 maybe that key second one is not 18:38.987 --> 18:39.986 what a lot of people think it 18:39.988 --> 18:40.220 is. 18:40.222 --> 18:44.557 Yes so the charter is has got 18:44.559 --> 18:46.092 multiple elements to it. 18:46.094 --> 18:48.094 It's a voter approved document. 18:48.096 --> 18:50.163 That's the kind of guiding 18:50.165 --> 18:51.297 document for the city. 18:51.299 --> 18:53.666 And it outlines exactly what you 18:53.668 --> 18:55.468 need to do for referendum for 18:55.470 --> 18:56.870 unissued and for recall. 18:56.872 --> 18:58.104 And what's interesting about 18:58.106 --> 18:59.672 this campaign is it is attacking 18:59.674 --> 19:01.174 the referendum only and so 19:01.176 --> 19:02.675 whether it wants to do is reduce 19:02.677 --> 19:04.344 the threshold for signatures 19:04.346 --> 19:05.478 expand the amount of time that 19:05.480 --> 19:07.347 you have to collect signatures 19:07.349 --> 19:08.948 specifically to overturn actions 19:08.950 --> 19:09.749 that are taken by the City 19:09.751 --> 19:10.216 Council. 19:10.218 --> 19:11.384 But they're not addressing 19:11.386 --> 19:12.652 initiative which is what the 19:12.654 --> 19:13.920 Texas Organizing Project 19:13.922 --> 19:16.689 recently used to put the paid 19:16.691 --> 19:18.658 sick sick leave in front of the 19:18.660 --> 19:19.192 city council. 19:19.194 --> 19:21.361 So if this charter men were to 19:21.363 --> 19:23.096 pass it would address referendum 19:23.098 --> 19:23.530 only. 19:23.532 --> 19:25.465 And so if you want to overturn a 19:25.467 --> 19:27.000 tax rate or an appropriation 19:27.002 --> 19:28.801 made by the council you could go 19:28.803 --> 19:32.071 to a megachurch and get your 19:32.073 --> 19:34.407 20000 signatures in a matter of 19:34.409 --> 19:36.276 a couple of services but if you 19:36.278 --> 19:38.478 wanted to initiate something 19:38.480 --> 19:39.879 like paid sick leave you would 19:39.881 --> 19:40.847 still have to go collect. 19:40.849 --> 19:42.348 At this point sixty nine 19:42.350 --> 19:43.850 thousand five hundred signatures 19:43.852 --> 19:46.186 in a 40 day window which is what 19:46.188 --> 19:46.786 top did. 19:46.788 --> 19:47.954 And they actually collected 100 19:47.956 --> 19:49.656 44000 signatures which a lot of 19:49.658 --> 19:51.691 people point to saying that the 19:51.693 --> 19:54.627 charter works as it exists that 19:54.629 --> 19:57.430 if there's true community desire 19:57.432 --> 19:59.399 for an initiative that there's 19:59.401 --> 20:00.433 the wherewithal to gather those 20:00.435 --> 20:01.801 signatures so that kind of pokes 20:01.803 --> 20:03.069 a hole in the whole 20:03.071 --> 20:04.771 firefighter's proposal that this 20:04.773 --> 20:07.173 is giving power to the citizenry 20:07.175 --> 20:08.374 that this is empowering the 20:08.376 --> 20:08.741 public. 20:08.743 --> 20:11.044 It is not necessarily doing that 20:11.046 --> 20:11.277 is it. 20:11.279 --> 20:13.379 Well that's probably a question 20:13.381 --> 20:15.014 for Christine but I think it's 20:15.016 --> 20:16.950 putting the hands of power in 20:16.952 --> 20:18.351 the hands of a small smaller 20:18.353 --> 20:20.119 group of people obviously as one 20:20.121 --> 20:20.954 then it does. 20:20.956 --> 20:23.289 And so you got to ask yourself 20:23.291 --> 20:24.290 they say give the power back to 20:24.292 --> 20:26.759 the people but which people you 20:26.761 --> 20:29.562 know who exactly and if it's 20:29.564 --> 20:31.497 that small amount of signatures 20:31.499 --> 20:32.699 that are required that just 20:32.701 --> 20:34.133 lends itself to special 20:34.135 --> 20:35.835 interests becoming more 20:35.837 --> 20:36.236 powerful. 20:36.238 --> 20:37.670 Obviously if you're a special 20:37.672 --> 20:39.739 interest and they pass something 20:39.741 --> 20:41.040 you don't like it's a lot easier 20:41.042 --> 20:42.442 for an organization to come up 20:42.444 --> 20:43.943 with signatures in a heartbeat 20:43.945 --> 20:45.311 than it is for the people. 20:45.313 --> 20:46.312 I mean a lot of people would 20:46.314 --> 20:47.714 know where to begin to collect 20:47.716 --> 20:50.149 20000 which money can can do it 20:50.151 --> 20:51.784 very quickly as the fire union 20:51.786 --> 20:52.352 demonstrated. 20:52.354 --> 20:54.320 And I think it's also you know 20:54.322 --> 20:55.488 it's important to note that it's 20:55.490 --> 20:57.857 not just the actual act of 20:57.859 --> 20:59.459 collecting signatures and 20:59.461 --> 21:01.361 holding a referendum vote but 21:01.363 --> 21:02.528 the threat of it as well. 21:02.530 --> 21:04.230 I think that you can come in and 21:04.232 --> 21:05.865 if you a powerful special 21:05.867 --> 21:08.768 interest you can quietly work. 21:08.770 --> 21:10.703 City Hall offices and explain 21:10.705 --> 21:12.238 you know if you don't do x y and 21:12.240 --> 21:14.507 z we will go out and in a matter 21:14.509 --> 21:16.709 of you know a couple of days you 21:16.711 --> 21:18.478 know and use a paid paid people 21:18.480 --> 21:19.779 to go get signatures and we'll 21:19.781 --> 21:22.382 overturn the project that you're 21:22.384 --> 21:23.082 most proud of. 21:23.084 --> 21:24.384 Brian you've done interesting 21:24.386 --> 21:25.952 reporting on how this campaign 21:25.954 --> 21:27.387 is being waged while the mayor 21:27.389 --> 21:29.822 is talking about Bond Ratings 21:29.824 --> 21:31.357 and Standard and Poors and 21:31.359 --> 21:32.392 something that a lot of people 21:32.394 --> 21:33.459 probably don't really 21:33.461 --> 21:34.127 understand. 21:34.129 --> 21:36.396 The supporters of these three 21:36.398 --> 21:37.397 proposals are doing 21:37.399 --> 21:38.298 microtargeting. 21:38.300 --> 21:40.166 They're using Mimis. 21:40.168 --> 21:41.934 They're kind of dumbing down the 21:41.936 --> 21:43.770 argument can you talk about how 21:43.772 --> 21:45.038 that's working and how effective 21:45.040 --> 21:45.838 you think that'll be. 21:45.840 --> 21:46.572 Sure. 21:46.574 --> 21:48.708 I mean I brought up the 2016 21:48.710 --> 21:49.776 presidential election. 21:49.778 --> 21:51.577 One thing the fire union is 21:51.579 --> 21:53.946 doing is attempting to stoke 21:53.948 --> 21:55.348 divisions online with these 21:55.350 --> 21:56.983 these means for example the 21:56.985 --> 21:58.318 issue of the cenotaph being 21:58.320 --> 21:59.519 moved outside of the footprint 21:59.521 --> 22:00.887 of the Alamo is a hot button 22:00.889 --> 22:02.088 issue for conservatives. 22:02.090 --> 22:03.790 And if you look there are 22:03.792 --> 22:06.659 injecting that issue into this 22:06.661 --> 22:08.227 even though nothing whatsoever 22:08.229 --> 22:09.128 and this would have anything to 22:09.130 --> 22:09.829 do with the Senate. 22:09.831 --> 22:11.130 Well I guess you could they 22:11.132 --> 22:13.166 might argue that this is the 22:13.168 --> 22:15.234 city City Hall City Council run 22:15.236 --> 22:16.703 a muck and doing things that the 22:16.705 --> 22:17.837 people don't want them to do. 22:17.839 --> 22:18.971 That would probably be their 22:18.973 --> 22:19.372 argument. 22:19.374 --> 22:22.241 But on the flip side you know 22:22.243 --> 22:24.077 yes it does take a lot longer to 22:24.079 --> 22:26.212 explain to folks how these 22:26.214 --> 22:28.915 abstract concepts will affect 22:28.917 --> 22:31.517 them personally if that is what 22:31.519 --> 22:32.385 the govt. 22:32.387 --> 22:34.320 No campaign has begun to do 22:34.322 --> 22:36.823 actually this week they began 22:36.825 --> 22:40.326 microtargeting individuals by 22:40.328 --> 22:41.694 geography by the neighborhoods 22:41.696 --> 22:42.295 they live in. 22:42.297 --> 22:44.664 And they're sending out ads that 22:44.666 --> 22:46.199 these these folks receive that 22:46.201 --> 22:48.534 would attempt to explain very 22:48.536 --> 22:51.537 simply for example in Beacon 22:51.539 --> 22:52.872 Hill the folks who live in 22:52.874 --> 22:54.340 Beacon Hill are concerned about 22:54.342 --> 22:55.575 and concurrent development 22:55.577 --> 22:56.976 popping up in their residential 22:56.978 --> 22:57.477 neighborhood. 22:57.479 --> 23:00.179 The argument there would be this 23:00.181 --> 23:02.448 would allow developers with 23:02.450 --> 23:05.284 money to collect signatures and 23:05.286 --> 23:07.220 you know create a referendum on 23:07.222 --> 23:08.287 a zoning change. 23:08.289 --> 23:10.723 So Josh let me start with you. 23:10.725 --> 23:12.759 How do you see this playing out 23:12.761 --> 23:15.128 over the next six weeks and 23:15.130 --> 23:16.596 let's look in our crystal ball 23:16.598 --> 23:17.764 and see if we can determine what 23:17.766 --> 23:18.931 we think the outcome of this 23:18.933 --> 23:19.265 will be. 23:19.267 --> 23:19.932 Let me start with you. 23:19.934 --> 23:22.301 Well I think that that's the big 23:22.303 --> 23:23.536 question that we will have an 23:23.538 --> 23:25.037 answer to until November 6th. 23:25.039 --> 23:27.907 It feels like you have spent a 23:27.909 --> 23:29.509 lot of time talking to both 23:29.511 --> 23:30.676 opponents and proponents of the 23:30.678 --> 23:32.645 charter amendments and it feels 23:32.647 --> 23:33.746 like there is a little bit more 23:33.748 --> 23:35.181 organization on the GO Vote No 23:35.183 --> 23:37.150 campaign right now than the 23:37.152 --> 23:38.718 supporting campaign run by the 23:38.720 --> 23:39.519 firefighters union. 23:39.521 --> 23:43.055 There seems to be a growing 23:43.057 --> 23:44.690 groundswell of support and 23:44.692 --> 23:46.359 understanding about the about 23:46.361 --> 23:48.761 the campaign to shoot these 23:48.763 --> 23:49.562 amendments down. 23:49.564 --> 23:53.433 And I think you know Chris 23:53.435 --> 23:55.168 Steele kind of slipping away 23:55.170 --> 23:57.970 from the public view may be a 23:57.972 --> 23:59.872 sea change moment for how this 23:59.874 --> 24:01.107 stuff plays out over the next 24:01.109 --> 24:01.707 couple of months. 24:01.709 --> 24:03.009 Brian how do you see this 24:03.011 --> 24:03.509 playing out. 24:03.511 --> 24:06.679 Well I've been pretty skeptical 24:06.681 --> 24:09.682 about defeating these these 24:09.684 --> 24:11.818 proposals just because you know 24:11.820 --> 24:13.586 the firefighters have been 24:13.588 --> 24:13.986 savvy. 24:13.988 --> 24:15.688 The fire union I would I should 24:15.690 --> 24:17.323 say has been quite savvy they 24:17.325 --> 24:18.758 know that for example the city 24:18.760 --> 24:20.493 manager poll is very low in this 24:20.495 --> 24:21.928 city they've been she's been 24:21.930 --> 24:23.563 hammered for years by not only 24:23.565 --> 24:24.730 the fire union but the police 24:24.732 --> 24:27.300 union over her salary and of 24:27.302 --> 24:28.668 course they're tying the city 24:28.670 --> 24:30.336 manager salary into this entire 24:30.338 --> 24:31.604 campaign even though it wouldn't 24:31.606 --> 24:33.239 actually affect the current city 24:33.241 --> 24:34.707 manager and only affect future 24:34.709 --> 24:35.374 city managers. 24:35.376 --> 24:37.543 So I think they've been they've 24:37.545 --> 24:39.745 been politically savvy and I 24:39.747 --> 24:42.215 would say you know I think 24:42.217 --> 24:42.882 there's still a lot of 24:42.884 --> 24:44.851 uncertainty and a lot of fear on 24:44.853 --> 24:46.519 the part of folks who realize 24:46.521 --> 24:47.687 how destructive these amendments 24:47.689 --> 24:49.422 would be that they actually 24:49.424 --> 24:50.089 might pass. 24:50.091 --> 24:53.259 So where is a fiery union 24:53.261 --> 24:53.893 president Steele 24:53.895 --> 24:55.495 Why do you think that he's not 24:55.497 --> 24:57.797 willing to show up on shows like 24:57.799 --> 24:59.499 this one up here at debates. 24:59.501 --> 25:02.702 What is his end game in this. 25:02.704 --> 25:06.038 Do you think you know he's he's 25:06.040 --> 25:08.074 kind of lit the fuse of a 25:08.076 --> 25:10.243 ticking time bomb dropped it and 25:10.245 --> 25:10.810 run away. 25:10.812 --> 25:15.147 And my experience has been that 25:15.149 --> 25:16.449 in the times that we've had an 25:16.451 --> 25:18.784 opportunity to ask him questions 25:18.786 --> 25:20.786 that he he has issues that he 25:20.788 --> 25:22.355 wants to say he wants to put his 25:22.357 --> 25:23.923 his perspective on things out 25:23.925 --> 25:24.924 and then he's he's not 25:24.926 --> 25:27.426 particularly receptive to 25:27.428 --> 25:29.495 detailed questions and asking 25:29.497 --> 25:31.330 for kind of factual rebuttals. 25:31.332 --> 25:33.599 And I think that if you put them 25:33.601 --> 25:35.334 on a TV show put them on stage 25:35.336 --> 25:38.437 at Town Hall where where he 25:38.439 --> 25:39.972 isn't in control of when it 25:39.974 --> 25:41.874 starts and when it stops then 25:41.876 --> 25:43.543 he's forced to answer those 25:43.545 --> 25:44.744 questions and I think that's a 25:44.746 --> 25:45.778 position he probably doesn't 25:45.780 --> 25:46.279 want to be in. 25:46.281 --> 25:47.613 Thank you very much Josh Baugh 25:47.615 --> 25:49.615 is the senior reporter from the 25:49.617 --> 25:51.050 San Antonio Express News Brian 25:51.052 --> 25:53.252 Chazov the metro columnist for 25:53.254 --> 25:54.820 The San Antonio Express News. 25:54.822 --> 25:56.422 This is certainly an issue 25:56.424 --> 25:57.857 that's not going away until as 25:57.859 --> 25:59.191 you mentioned November 6 that 25:59.193 --> 26:00.860 we'll probably be talking about 26:00.862 --> 26:01.527 it after that. 26:01.529 --> 26:02.962 Thank you very much and please 26:02.964 --> 26:04.564 join us next time for on the 26:04.566 --> 26:04.864 record.