San Antonio is a fast growing
fast moving community with
something new happening every
day.
That's why each week we go on
the ride with the newsmakers who
are driving this change.
Then we gather at the reporters
roundtable to talk about the
latest news stories with the
journalists behind those
stories.
Join us now as we go on.
Welcome to a special edition
full hour on the record.
I'm PJ made over the past week
San Antonio has seen two
protests turned violent.
The intention of the gatherings
to protest racial injustice and
to elicit change after the
murder of George Floyd an
unarmed black man by a police
officer in Minneapolis.
Locally the protests have
started peacefully but then
turned violent with looting and
vandalism downtown.
Mayor Ron Nurenberg joins us.
Mayor what is your main concern
right now.
Well my main concern is that the
message of reform and justice
that people are peacefully
demonstrating for across the
across the country is lost amid
instigation and in devolving
into violence which really
detracts from the message.
You know we have a number of
underlying conditions in this
country that have exacerbated
the frustrations that we're
seeing in all aspects of society
and racism and institutional
racism is one of them.
And so that's an issue that we
have to focus a generation on.
And you know when when we see
demonstrations of movement
across the country like this we
want to take advantage of that
and create change.
And that's what I hope happens.
What does change look like from
the city's perspective.
To me that is a pursuit of
racial equity and of course that
has a lot to do with every
aspect of society from how we
deal with issues of access to
education and workforce how we
deal with services and equitable
delivery of services but it also
deals with police community
relations and that's what you're
seeing the focus of this on and
obviously that is a an issue
that has been unsolved for so
many years across every urban
city in the country.
What are your interactions been
like with the police department
and city management as they're
trying to respond to this tense
situation.
You know I have to give a lot of
credit to our city management
our San Antonio Police
Department Chief McManus but
also the community around us.
I mean if you look at across San
Antonio with the organizations
the social justice organizations
that are marching that are
organizing that are calling for
reform.
They are working together in
over the last 20 years after
over the last 15 years that the
police department under Chief
McManus is really focused on
community relations and building
community through policing by
addressing some of these issues
whether it's diversity among the
workforce of the police
department whether it's use of
force policies this
de-escalation training
sensitivity training implicit
bias all these things are being
incorporated.
But you know one of the
challenges is if you see
something so egregious as we saw
with the murder of George Floyd
with which adds to adds another
life to a long and growing list
of people who have been murdered
black Americans mainly it it it
leads to the frustration.
And it also takes several steps
back from the great community
relations that and progress
progress that we've we've been
able to to see here in San
Antonio.
I understand that the organizers
of the protest and the police
department have pretty good
lines of communication.
There's a concern that people
from outside or agitators are
kind of causing the vandalism.
Do you have a sense of that what
are you hearing about that.
You know it's unclear it's
unclear.
There are obviously instigators
that are trying to take selfish
advantage of the situation and
make this evolve into something
it's not.
And we see them in all kinds of
political stripes.
You know there is a known
organization that we've heard of
now called the boogaloo boys.
There's other organizations that
are affiliated with white
supremacist groups and other
racist organizations that are
taking advantage of this
situation because it's volatile
and trying to instigate violence
that is an element we have to be
aware of and we have to use
intelligence to weeded out.
But I would say that San Antonio
has an extraordinary history of
dealing with the march to civil
rights and reforms of of all
kinds and we've done in a
peaceful way when we saw the
marches in San Antonio on
Saturday and throughout the week
they're peaceful and they're
overwhelmingly people from our
community that are families of
all ages coming out to march in
unison.
What we have to do is figure out
a way that we can keep that the
main the main driving force of
these marches and be able to you
know if they're from San Antonio
or not the instigators that are
trying to change the message
into something that's far beyond
and not in any way related to
the march for justice on the
police side.
We've seen videos of rubber
bullets wooden bullets tear gas.
What do you asking the police
department about what their
policies are about de-escalation
or escalation.
That's a great question.
I think that the theme for these
has to always be discussed
de-escalation the use of force
policy obviously is an extremely
important part of how we do
that.
And so those are the questions
I'm asking and also I'm asking
are we making it clear when and
how use of force is executed.
You know crowd control devices
people in crowds need to know
when that's going to happen and
how it happens.
And so that's a lot of the
conversation we're we're having
now.
Use of force whether it's you
know crowd disperse or any other
kind of non-lethal is extremely
important it needs to be done in
a transparent manner.
All your council colleagues and
engage in this topic of police
reform and do you see there
being an ongoing conversation
about that after this kind of
tense situation dies down.
Yeah I do.
I think you know unfortunately
it kind of ebbs and flows but we
we reconstituted the Public
Safety Commission or the Public
Safety Committee of the city
council headed by Melissa bear
hovered it was a council member
in District 6.
She's very anxious to get
involved and make sure that
we're doing everything we need
to do to continue to enhance
police community relations which
has been a hallmark of our
community.
So this is going to be an
ongoing ongoing conversation.
One of the elements of challenge
for us though is that there are
certain things that are the
domain of the local community
through contract through
executive authority that is
executed by the chief.
There are certain things that
are the domain of the state and
federal government as well.
There are a lot of things that
are through statute at the state
level that take a lot of that
can kind of control and process
out of the hands of the local
government.
And so we've got to go through
those things as well.
So I understand that police in
the past 15 years after 9/11
started getting riot gear and
kind of military kind of
equipment I'm sure you've seen
that in your time on council.
Your thoughts on the
militarization of police forces
and sort of how we should view
that moving forward.
Yeah.
Well certainly the police
protection and personal
protection of our police force
is important but at the same
time military style gear also
sends a signal to the community.
And we have to be very careful
when when any kind of vehicle or
equipment is deployed that it's
done in the appropriate manner.
Militarization of the police by
and large has only served to
escalate the feelings of people
that that they're being that
they're being monitored and
controlled.
And that is part of part of the
problem with with what's going
on now is that these marches for
justice are springing from years
decades generations of
frustration that communities of
color have had with the criminal
justice system in general.
You know this has been an
underlying brewing issue that
has been left unaddressed for so
long.
And the more that we create that
disconnect whether it's through
equipment or you know again the
policies and procedures of
controlling crowds that can
create a gulf that detracts from
the progress that we're trying
to seek.
So this protest situation is
there's an underlying condition
which is we have a pandemic that
disproportionately affects
people of color.
We have an economic crisis that
disproportionately affects
people of color.
Then you have this video that's
viral that's really disturbing.
Can you talk about that and sort
of the conditions that have led
to this powder keg of a moment.
That's why I always go back to
equity equity in all senses and
that's why you know back when I
was elected we made equity the
agenda.
Economic mobility is a issue of
racial equity as well policing
and how we manage public safety
in our communities is is an
issue of equity and race equity
as well.
So all of these go back to how
it shouldn't matter what the
color of your skin is what side
of town you live on where you
were born in what your last name
is you should deserve equity
delivered at basic opportunity
services within our community
just like everyone else.
And so it's going to continue to
go back to this notion that
equity has to be our agenda our
focus and that's been the theme
of how we're going to be moving
forward through this pandemic as
well.
Has this protest and response
changed our city.
And if so how.
You know I think it it has
changed our city in the sense
that we are now in a moment
where where we are clearly
connected with urban communities
around the country that maybe we
we thought we weren't.
You know D.C. Austin Chicago
these cities are really gripped
with issues of how do we control
unrest.
And we thought we were immune to
that.
And I think maybe we we are much
better off than most communities
in the sense that we are so
close knit and weak and we work
together through challenges like
this but it does show these are
broad issues across the country
that we have to be cognizant of
and that we have to participate
in.
On the other hand what San
Antonio has always been is a
city that cares for one another.
And what we saw on Sunday
morning I think should hold
everyone in close and he should
have this in your heart.
We saw throngs of people descend
upon downtown not with signs
this time but with brooms and
trash bags to help clean up.
That's the same kind of peaceful
assembly except they had
different things in their hands
that we saw on Saturday.
So this city has a remarkable
tradition of being a leader in
civil rights and peaceful
non-violent protests.
That is going to continue.
This city also has a tradition
of being close knit and taking
care of one another that is
going to continue.
But we are participating in a
national dialogue now a hopeful
message from Mayor Ron
Nuremburg.
Thank you for joining us.
Thanks.
Joining us now is San Antonio
Police Department Chief William
Magnus.
That Chief again thank you for
joining us.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
So what are the policies and
procedures for the essay APD for
the use of force or any kind of
projectile to disperse the
crowd.
We will never ever use chemical
agents or any kind of munitions
on a peaceful crowd crowd that's
peacefully demonstrating that
those are the rules.
When the crowd becomes
threatening to a point where
we're concerned that there's
gonna be assaultive behavior
when there's property
destruction gonna be property
structure that could be property
destruction.
We will.
If if time and situation permits
we will ask the crowd to
disperse.
If the crowd won't disperse then
we will warn them that we are
going to deploy chemical agents
and if they continue to stand
their ground then we will deploy
those agents.
So it's after a warning when at
least it usually two to three
warnings that are given.
So we've had a couple of these
instances in the last week with
a protest in downtown San
Antonio.
Is there an after incident
review internally the next day
or the week after or something
where you go through that kind
of tick tock play by play of
what happened.
Yes there's a there's an action
after action report that will be
done and we'll review everything
from top to bottom from a
desire.
And I know that we live in an
age now where there are cameras
all over the place with people
with their cell phones.
How much of that is kind of
incorporated into the review.
We have body cams as well.
As you well know and as
everybody well knows if there's
an if there's a complaint made
or an allegation made of any
type of misconduct or excessive
force we will review any video
we can get our hands on to
include the body cam video of
the the any officer that's in
the area where the complaint is
made.
So it's a comprehensive review
and anytime there's a complaint.
Yes the body cams have been
around for four or five years
now for the LAPD.
Do you think that they've
fulfilled their purpose of de
escalating situations overall.
I do.
It actually changes behavior on
both sides of the camera.
And oftentimes that you know the
officers fears when we first
started wearing them was that
you know they were going to get
in trouble.
You know it was going to be
difficult for them but more
often than not when a complaint
is made we will we will review
the body cam video and it will
it will unfound the complaint.
And oftentimes when we were
being when there's a complaint
being made will advise the
complainant that OK we're going
to review the body cam video.
And oftentimes they just
withdraw their complaint right
away.
I see.
So at the protests the other
night there were some reporters
who posted some video.
My understanding is there's a
safe zone option for reporters
who are covering these protests.
What is the protocol for that.
We offer that we offer.
We offered I think was Saturday
night.
We offered a a an area behind
the lines where reporters could
could muster up and some did.
And obviously some didn't.
But if you're in a crowd who's
ever in that crowd when those
warnings are given to disperse
or if if you know anyone in that
crowd who is peacefully
protesting and being hijacked by
the people who are bent on
violence and property
destruction if you see that
happening it's probably best to
leave.
And when the warnings are given
it is definitely best to leave
because we're telling you that
hey this either has to stop or
we're going to disperse the
crowd.
Right.
I on Saturday at the Alamo there
was this really compelling
picture of officers like a blue
wall of officers between a group
quote unquote defending the
Alamo and people protesting what
was going through the mind of an
officer who said who's sitting
there in this tense and volatile
situation.
Well I can tell you from from
years of experience it is very
tense and you're just waiting
and you're you're standing there
in the throes of insults.
People were spitting on you.
Not not everyone the peaceful
protesters are not doing this
but there are some that are
doing it and they're throwing
water bottles but the water
bottles don't always have water
in them.
They've got urine in them.
They've got chemical agents in
them cleaning agents in them.
So they're filled up sometimes
with sand or pebbles.
I heard a remark or read
something on social media that
which the big deal with a water
bottle being thrown.
Well it's not always water
bottles.
It's not always water in those
bottles.
We had three officers injured
Saturday night two were hit in
the head with bottles one had to
be transported to the hospital.
One was treated on the scene by
M.S. and a third officer who was
hit in the knee with a brick.
So you know it's it's tense when
you're on the front line and it
requires patients.
It requires a lot of training
and understanding you know what
your role is on that line.
But when when it gets violent
and when there's proper
destruction were there to
protect people's health and
safety protect their lives.
And we are also there to protect
property and people who own
those properties and people who
are not involved in the violence
expect us to protect them and
their property.
That makes absolute sense on
Saturday it was a tense standoff
and it's pretty long tense
standoff.
There was a build up throughout
the day people were announcing
on social media they're going to
have the protests and the
counter protests.
How do you approach those days
where you know there could be a
tense situation brewing.
Well let me let me start from
how we approach any protest at
all.
So we try to meet with the
organizers which I did on
Saturday at 430 at Travis church
and they they did exactly what
they said they were going to do
which was commence at 5:00 and
at six thirty at public safety
headquarters after a vigil and
then they would disperse.
And what I told them was our
protocol is our M.O. is that we
are not going to hover around
the protesters or be in their
midst.
We don't want them to feel like
we're there waiting for them to
do something or feel pressure
from the police.
So the only time we're going to
show up is if we get a call is
we have to protect them from
traffic.
If they if they decide to march
and to protect them from counter
protesters.
And that's what we did on
Saturday night.
And I got some very nice text
messages from the organizers
that I met with saying thank
you.
You know you all did a great job
and I thank them for for doing
what they said they were going
to do.
But it's it's typically after
dark and it and it builds the
tension builds and the and the
threats build.
And that's kind of that's how it
all develops.
When you talk about the tension
building I have two questions.
The first is there's a curfew
kind of try to address that.
Is that one of the reasons we
consider a curfew and that's
sort of my main question.
Right.
The curfew helps in this way.
You know we're not we're not out
to run everybody down that's on
the street after curfew is in
effect last night.
We had about 130 people or so in
Travis Park after the curfew.
So we went up and we advised
them reminded them that there is
a curfew.
Many of them left.
Many of them stayed but they
were just they were just in the
park.
They weren't causing any
problems.
And we left them alone.
But but the curfew helps when
you've got roving bands of
individuals who are who are
destroying property and I'll use
Commerce Street as an example.
You've got bands of individuals
who are destroying property.
If if we're if we're riding up
Commerce Street and we're trying
to prevent property destruction
after the reports of windows
being broken and businesses
being broken into.
If we see someone on the street
we're able to stop them because
of that curfew.
If there's no curfew we can't
stop them unless we see them
actually breaking the windows or
breaking into the buildings.
We're we're pretty much
powerless as far as a legal
option goes to stop them.
It's a tool in the toolbox to
prevent yes looting.
That's exactly right.
So since 9/11 I understand that
the Department of Homeland
Security the Justice Department
have given local governments
more money for a kind of more
advanced equipment for police
departments.
Is that accurate.
And do you think that that tends
to escalate situations and what
is your philosophy on that.
You have to be careful what
tactics you use what tactics you
display because it doesn't cite
my fact.
We've made several adjustments
during during the past few days
to try and de-escalate.
And I won't say what they are
but we've made several
adjustments to try to
de-escalate.
Our goal is to two to allow
people to exercise their First
Amendment rights.
Any constitutional right for
that matter.
And do it in a way that that
we're not interfering or we're
not causing concern to the
protesters.
But once there's there's danger
to to life and limb or danger to
property then we're bound to
intervene.
So these protests kind of arose
out of a long time where people
felt like police officers maybe
inappropriate force weren't
being held accountable.
I know that you and your job
have to deal with these
complaints all the time.
What are some constraints you
face in trying to discipline
officers.
Well there's there's laws and
and rules contractual and state
law that that we're that we
abide by that we have to abide
by contractual laws that are
that are that are founded on
some of them founded on state
law.
For example the right to
arbitrate.
So that's that's in Chapter 143
and it's also in in the the
police contract with Chief Bill
McManus.
Thank you so much for joining us
and thanks for working to keep
our community safe.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
The fourth century quest for
racial justice continues.
Joining us is in a factory who
helped organize the George Floyd
vigil at Travis Park.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
What was the goal of the vigil
on Saturday.
The goal of the vigil was to
stand in solidarity with the
rest of the country concerning
George Floyd and a lot of other
black lives that have been lost.
I know that George Floyd gets
all the attention but just the
latest in a long list of lives
who have been lost some of them
high profile but a lot of them
behind closed doors.
Can you talk about that a little
bit.
Yeah absolutely.
George Floyd I'm an arbitrary
before him.
Brianna Taylor It's been a
month.
I mean there have been
executions of black people on
live television streaming
through the media.
And it's sickening.
And as a black community we just
we can't take it anymore.
So you helped organize the
vigil.
I know that you were out there
giving bottles of water to
people and everything.
What was it like logistically to
get a vigil like that going.
It was fast and moves very fast.
The community came through.
Cars were pulling up after each
other.
Donating oranges granola bars.
The community really made sure
that the protesters had what
they needed to stay hydrated.
I mean that was important for me
as an organizer to make sure
that the people who came out
were safe.
Safety was my biggest concern.
And that's why I emphasized a
peaceful protest because I
wanted people to be safe.
In the end because Black Lives
was what we were there to come
together for.
So you had like hundreds of
people show up right and you
marched around downtown.
Is that correct.
Thousands and thousands of
people shouted.
It was a big was a big number I
knew that.
And then it broke up at Travis
park and then what gets all the
attention is the standoff at the
Alamo and then what happened on
Houston Street later in the
night.
Is there a concern that those
kind of bad actors are going to
divert away from the message
you're trying to spread in our
community.
I think throughout history they
always have.
There are always people who who
do things you know.
But I think that the emphasis is
once again on black lives.
Our intent was very pure and it
was very vocal.
We went out there with pure
intentions.
So I don't give credence to
troublemakers necessarily but do
I think that the country has a
right to be outraged.
Absolutely.
Do I think that rage is
beautiful for black folk.
Absolutely and I think that it's
justified that people are angry.
But I I know that my intention
was a peaceful protest for San
Antonio.
But I'm not going to talk down
on folks who feel enraged in
their actions and the actions
that come after that.
So the protests have continued
since Saturday.
We've seen some disturbing
videos of escalation of force
with wooden bullets rubber
bullets tear gas I believe.
What do you think about the
escalation of police force and
do you think that that hurts
maintain the peace.
Absolutely I think that's very
disappointing.
It is our First Amendment right
to assemble and to protest
peacefully.
And I think that that's being
violated with excessive force
when it's clear that people are
out there fighting for their
rights.
I think that Texas as a whole we
can come together and we can
definitely do better when it
comes to legislation.
I mean communicating with the
community.
I think that we have to stay
safe and for organizers like me
I now have to switch up the game
I have to figure out how to keep
organizing and keeping people
safe because you know law
enforcement seems to have an
agenda.
Yeah.
So you have to define an agenda
to counteract that right.
What do you kind of besides the
de-escalation of force.
Well what are you thinking about
are the top priorities of the
agenda right now the top
priorities of the agenda are
doing interviews like this
keeping the conversation going
being open with the media having
a black activist come out on the
record because a lot of black
activists are scared to speak up
on camera because our lives are
in danger for what we do the
community the Latino community
everybody coming together to
stand in solidarity is super
important.
I could have absolutely not done
any of this without the Brown
Berets without the community.
So I'm very grateful but I'm I'm
just getting another black life
will be lost and other black
lives have been lost protesting.
So what happens a lot to your
point is we have these videos
that come out and people are
outraged by them and there's
some protest and then a few
weeks goes by and it kind of
dies down and then there's
another incident just for
centuries of that right it seems
like.
And so my question for you is
you're interested in keeping
this on top of the agenda.
What are you going to do to keep
it on top of the agenda.
You said media.
Is there anything else you have
in mind.
Absolutely I'm going to keep
organizing I'm working on
projects in the community where
the community can come together
and really just kind of debrief
and actually you know mourn the
loss of the lives lost.
I'm working on a painting a
mural painting that the
community can come and paint.
I'm I'm working on just
different strategies.
I definitely am not done
protesting I'm not done
exercising my right I just have
to go about it a different way
now with all of the legal
ramifications that I could face.
So speaking of the history of
protest you made some headlines
when you were UTSA student
talking about the sexual assault
policies on campus.
I think there are some changes
result of your activism can you
talk about that activism and the
change that came about.
Yes yes.
A year ago at UTSA I started to
move called Hashtag change rape
culture and I fought for these
these survivors.
I mean for the rights of
survivors on campus pertaining
to sexual assault and violence I
challenged UTSA as Title 9
policies I had questions about
investigations about Survivor
representation on campus and so
I pushed and I pushed and I
pushed and I never expected to
make headlines.
I just really wanted a
conversation to start on campus
but from there I was not
satisfied with the response and
I really just kept my foot on
UTSA as NEC per say and I move
around to other institutions
around San Antonio and do the
same thing I question their
Title 9 and their policies.
Do you feel like that was a
worthwhile cause of course
because you're continuing to
your line of advocacy right.
Absolutely.
Do you feel like you're the
voice of a generation.
I mean a lot of young people get
a bad rap for not being engaged
enough but you are changing rape
culture of the Black Lives
Matter.
I mean do you feel like you're
you're a voice for a lot of
people.
I feel like I could be but I do
know that I could not be where I
am without my ancestors.
I know that I could not be where
I am without the people who
marched before me.
So because they marched I can
continue to march and I always
want to give credence to that.
So you know there's this history
of activism.
What's what's new for you what's
new for me.
We'll see.
I'm just kind of going wherever
the wind blows me.
But I do know that speaking up
for these things it's almost
like a calling for myself and
for others it's the 21st century
it's 20 20 and people are still
getting shot in the street and
executed publicly.
So what's the one message you'd
want our viewers to take away
from this.
I want people to take away that
hashtag black lives matter and
that San Antonio cares about
black lives.
And I care about black lives and
we need to keep this
conversation going.
Can be a factor.
Thank you for your advocacy and
thank you for joining us.
Thank you the protests and the
aftermath have been particularly
difficult for downtown
businesses.
Joining us uk and Christian Oba
with a cool public relations.
What is the impact of the
protests in the aftermath on
your business.
Business has been good.
You know we've had a nice little
reprieve in the two months of
Colvin we've been able to
reconnect and with our brand as
well as reconnect with our
community.
But since the devastating tragic
loss of great of Judge Floyd
we've been really active in just
connecting and connecting and
connecting with our community by
way of our brands that we work
for.
So business has been unscathed.
That's good news.
Your business headquarters is
located at Alamo and Houston I
understand or Broadway and
Houston who's struggling in
Houston.
That's near the Alamo.
You were near the protests.
Yes I understand that you've
provided some refuge and you
were kind of involved with that.
What was that.
So prior to the protest starting
we had a few friends of ours
actually stopped by our office
and we just organized got
ourselves together and then we
took the walk to Travis and then
walked with the peaceful
protests after the protest
ended.
We all walked back to Travis
office over in a bar in Houston
right in the middle.
Our office is right there on
Broadway right before you turned
the corner down commerce.
It was just reasonable to stop
and get some water meet up with
some friends kind of watch just
people watch for a moment and
just experience it.
So I know that there was some
vandalism and stuff that
happened in the evening with
some agitators who did that.
Did your business get affected
by that.
No.
Of this business were affected
by that.
That's great.
Then the cleanup the next day
Sunday that was an inspiring
message I know that you probably
had some friends and clients out
there what would you think about
that.
We loved the cleanup the way the
scientific community came
together and helped out.
We even had a prior business
owner who had a store next to
us.
He came from came back into the
town and actually assisted a few
of the other folks that were
affected by the looting.
So what do you see moving
forward.
I know that we've we're in about
a week of protests and I know
that people are still angry and
understandably so.
What do you wear where do you
see it going.
I see a lot of people gaining a
new voice.
I see everyday folks on the
march was just everyday people
using their everyday voices.
I see everyday people speaking
up against discrimination
speaking up against anti
blackness and then speaking up
against speaking up for
accountability within our
decision makers.
And so I see more people taking
a stance and that's the future
of the movement.
That's something that we haven't
been able to to get to in past
years sadly.
But now there's a lot of you
know this is it this is we're
tired of it we're watching
people who've been on the
sidelines to take a stand.
You are do you see that
happening.
Yes we do see that happening.
And I think it's very important
that people need to take a
stand.
If you don't take a stand and
you're not able to speak truth
to power all you have is just a
system that will keep demonizing
or putting people down and we
don't need that anymore
especially in 21st century
society.
So that's.
That seems like a positive
outcome it's been tragic
circumstances all the way
around.
You said you represent the
hospitality industry.
I know that they've been have a
lot of trouble with the code in
the shut down.
What has been the reaction in
the hospitality industry to the
corona virus and how you've
you've responded to that.
Our clients have had a very
tumultuous experience in terms
of making sure that they can
keep employees making sure that
they can voice to their
communities their open hours and
close hours of course.
We've been able to work with a
local favorite called The Joke
check and they've created these
bundles is watching these
business owners create these
pivots in how they offer their
services especially the
restaurant industry.
They've opened up their doors to
become supermarkets for their
community to do food drives to
drop our food in the front lines
of code that first responders
and then now you see different
restaurants offering to assist
marchers by dropping off water
and paying it forward.
The amount of care and
compassion that came to these
owners during the course of it
pandemic and that we're still in
the middle of they are paying it
for it to the community and it's
really becoming very very
inspirational absolutely
inspirational.
Speaking of inspirational I know
that you were involved with
organizing a processional for
George Floyd on Saturday morning
I think seventy five cars.
Can you talk about that.
I was joined with Katherine
Pruitt.
She is the editor of ethical
sales.
And Celeste a lot of brown.
She's a local policy changer
influencer and we got together
and we wanted to both respect
show some respect to these lost
souls.
So we were marching we decided
that marching would be a little
bit hard for the entire
community to participate in and
a processional in a place like
San Antonio that respects things
like life as well as death and
the family ties.
It was it was something that
that was transitional for our
movement.
It caught the eyes and the
attention of our network and we
were able to do that.
And it became a very personal
experience.
Afterwards we socially distance
in a large parking lot and we
shared words and you to see
black women standing up in front
of these crowds of black brown
and white neighbors good people.
It was definitely something I
had never seen in San Antonio
before and something I look
forward to definitely seeing
again very soon.
When you said that words were
exchanged what kinds of words.
What was the message.
The message was was of course
solidarity making sure our
community understands how hurt
we are as black Americans.
How how this affects the way we
raise our boys the way we
introduce our daughters to the
community.
We shared messages of how to
create the change that we want
to see in terms of reaching out
to policymakers and ensuring
that we educate ourselves on
what these policies and
securities me especially in our
law enforcement.
And then I shared a story of my
brother who was detained over
the over a insufficient claim.
And it led to his downward
spiral.
And so we created a great sense
of community that that that
provided comfort and compassion.
And then at the same time really
hopefully created some change.
Hope to hear more of those
stories to create that change.
Speaking of change downtown has
been changed a lot.
We went from being dead from the
cold and shut down.
Now we've had these these
protests and it's been kind of
strange.
Y'all have been downtown
supporters and activists for
quite some time would say What
do you what do you think is the
future downtown.
Well I think the future of
downtown is very very good.
I do believe that there is an
opportunity for us to have more
diverse community business
owners being part of downtown.
And for you know other business
owners or people of color to see
downtown as an opportunity to
grow themselves grow their
network grow their family wealth
and at the same time grow their
passion.
So you know we always see
stories of folks that when they
start a business they go out to
stonewall or they go down to the
south side and understand that
economically sometimes that can
be better.
But in order to have a thriving
San Antonio really fully in the
the mayor's mandate of focusing
on downtown growing the urban
core is something that everyone
should get behind.
Well sad to say but Christian
read us but thank you all for
joining us and thanks for all
you're doing in our community.
Thank you for having us.
Now for the reporters roundtable
joining us is join Pelosi as
local government reporter Texas
Public Radio and Emily Eaton
criminal justice reporter San
Antonio Express News.
Emily what's been going on the
last week.
Well for the last five days
we've seen demonstrations and
protests in San Antonio and on
two occasions both on Saturday
and Tuesday.
We saw police use force on the
demonstrators in an effort to
sort of disperse the crowd.
They say although that has
obviously gotten some attention
from the demonstrators and they
say that wasn't justified.
So both of you were at the event
on Tuesday when there was sort
of a an intense interaction.
Can you describe your
perspective.
Absolutely.
So for it started around 5:00
p.m. at the courthouse and it
was a rather weird demonstration
in that there was no one
organizer.
And so at times it seemed rather
aimless it would they would go
to the police department that
they would come back.
Then they would go to the police
department then they would come
back.
And so that went on for about
three or four hours and finally
they ended up at Travis park and
then they decided to go to Alamo
Plaza which of course was closed
to try to curtail any type of
demonstrations there or any type
of unrest.
And so once they arrived there
they were greeted by a line of
police officers and more police
officers came in and the
traditional riot gear including
the helmet and the face shields
and the body body armor and some
had gas masks.
And from my perspective I was
standing right near Ripley's
Believe It Or Not.
And I was actually right next to
Joey and we were both taking
video of the demonstrators and
one demonstrator threw a plastic
water bottle at the police
officers.
It bounced off his chest sort
of.
He sort of just shrugged.
He sort of just flinched
shrugged and it went on the
ground and then all of a couple
of demonstrators said you know
hey cut it out that's not what
we're here for.
We're here for peace.
And it was about maybe a a
minute in 30 seconds or two
minutes.
And at that point the police
officers started using pepper
bullets and smoke to try to
disperse the crowd.
There was a separate incident
that was going on away from us
that we didn't see that other
video captured.
I see.
So what kind of projectiles were
used.
Joey I mean rubber bullets.
Well what else.
Right.
So when police started firing we
didn't know what was being shot.
So Emily and I we were standing
right next to each other.
And personally I was not going
to wait to find out.
So I started running and when I
started running the entire crowd
of people just started going up
Latoya street.
There was this smell in the air
afterwards.
It was really caustic it was
really it was really it kind of
burned to breathe.
Don't think it was tear gas.
My my guess then it was pepper
pellets but it didn't start
really smelling it until we got
to the end of last Sawyer Street
over near forget which street
exactly it is before we got to
commerce.
In an interview that I did with
CPD spokesman a little bit
around midnight or so early
Wednesday they had said that
they had used tear gas that they
had used pepper pellets they had
used rubber bullets and that
they had used wooden pellets as
well which if I'm not mistaken
Mark dumpling with the express
news was actually hit with one
of those and he tweeted it out
that it had made contact with
him.
As I was going up commerce
towards La soya this is video
that I had shared on Twitter.
Afterwards there were two or
three people running up the
street and two of them were hit
by the spark and whatever it was
fell to the ground and started
smoking and the two the two guys
continued running.
Not sure what that was.
I was probably maybe some type
of smoke grenade.
I didn't smell of like tear gas
but once it hit I started
running towards Commerce Street
too.
So you're describing a pretty
effective crowd dispersal
techniques where people were
running.
Do we know exactly what caused
them to fire.
Those have been kind of
identified in the other videos
you mentioned.
Emily Yes and no.
So the police say that anytime
water bottles are used that it
has the potential to get really
bad really fast.
And so I think as soon as that
first water bottle was thrown
they decided they were going to
disperse the crowd separately.
There is a video captured by
someone a journalist from Metro
News Service I believe is the
organization and that video
shows a couple of demonstrators
as the riot police officers are
lining up.
They're sort of they're a ways
away from the police officers
but they're going back and forth
they're being a little
confrontational.
They're getting up a little in
their face and then coming back
cursing a little bit and the
officers are doing a little bit
of the same.
You know they're sort of like
getting back to pushing on that
standoff.
It is.
And and it's a little unclear
because the video is a little
shaky but at that point sort of
someone lunges for the police
officer launches forward pushes
the guy then stands back and
then several shots were fired.
Jody have a sense of what the
review is after an incident like
this internally at CPD.
Have they shared that with you.
Do they do an internal audit so
to speak of this.
Well I afterwards after my video
was posted online I did get a
couple of calls from the city
one from city city spokeswoman
who was just checking to make
sure it was OK.
And then also after I made a
request to LAPD Lieutenant Jesse
Solomon called me as well and
that's when I did the interview
and he had said what what was
what was used.
I would imagine that there's
there's a review I was expecting
as a party to have some type of
press conference the next day
but rather the chief put out a
lengthy statement about the
actions that were taken.
Some of the results they even
think of the chief's statement
even mentioned that two
journalists were hit earlier
today or very early this
morning.
No I'm sorry later in the day or
later in the morning LAPD had
said how many arrests were made
and I think there were a total
of eight they actually listed
six charges that people had had
gotten to like maybe inciting a
riot.
Was one of them I think one
person was even crossing against
a a crossing against the signal
I think which I thought was an
interesting charge to put
against somebody.
And I don't know how much what
else we will we will get from
SIPC.
I can't recall all of what the
chief's statement was it was
extensive it was it was a very
very long statement.
But the police department is
receiving a lot of criticism a
lot of people had said that they
don't believe that the use of
force that LAPD used was
justified in a question that I
had asked Lieutenant Solomon.
He had said that the department
did believe it was justified
because of the they don't know
what the contents of those
bottles can be.
He he had alluded to you know
sometimes they could be filled
with bleach sometimes it could
be filled with urine but we have
no way of what note was knowing.
And we have no way of knowing
what was in that at least that
one bottle that we saw was
thrown.
I think there was also I
mentioned that you know there
was a glass bottle thrown.
I don't remember seeing a glass
bottle or hearing any glass
break.
So you know I'm hoping we'll
hear more from CPD soon.
So this is a highly tense
situation.
Not a lot of information about
what's going on from the video
it seems a little bit like a war
zone almost.
Emily did you get any training
on how to cover stuff like this
in journalism school or any kind
of certification or do you just
kind of show up to the front
lines and there you are.
Yes and no I think the best
training you can have is to have
experience.
And so I too I did a number of
internships and I had experience
tear gas before.
I also separate from this had
witnessed a murder while on the
job.
So that prepared me for this.
But there also is no
preparation.
I mean there state things that
you can do to make sure that
you're in buddy systems you know
a lot of the reporters so you
can sort of check in on each
other.
But then at the end of the day
you just you have to be smart.
Emily Eaton So Antonio Express
News Joy blocks to Texas Public
Radio thank you for joining us.
For our last segment the
Reporters Roundtable we have
Gilbert Garcia metro columnist
San Antonio Express News.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
So it's been quite the Newsweek.
What was your read on the
situation.
Well I think one of things
that's been interesting has been
that there has been a lot of
talk about the media coverage of
the protests in San Antonio and
other cities.
And on the one hand you have
people I think fairly making the
point.
These are people who are
supportive of the protesters
saying that most of the people
protesting have been doing so
peacefully and are trying to
make a serious point about
police reform.
And they probably feel that
there's been too much coverage
of you know the the bad actors
and the people who've been you
know committed acts of vandalism
and so on.
On the other hand you have I've
heard people say that you know
there's not enough on the other
side of the aisle saying that
there has been enough coverage
of some of the the acts of
violence.
I think I am often critical of
24 hour news channels because I
think that there's a tendency to
try to fill up a lot of time
with conjecture and
pontificating and not so much
not as much reporting.
I think this is one of those
instances though where the 24
hour news channels have been
able to do what they are there
they can often do well which is
there.
They have so much time that
they've had reporters out there
on the ground in various cities
and we're able to see over a
long period of time how some of
these protests are developing
and I think what we've seen and
the thing is this was certainly
true Saturday night in San
Antonio that we had a really
peaceful protest and after it it
basically disbanded you had
people like you East Houston
Street for example just smashing
windows and doing a lot of
damage.
And I think they were loosely
affiliated affiliated at all
with what the protests were.
So you had thousands of people
at the protest at Travis park
and then it devolves into just a
few people running around on
Houston Street breaking windows
and you know that we have a
history of a situation where
there will be people who will
exploit you know protest
movements you know I mean if we
go back historically with Martin
Luther King was in Memphis when
he was shot because he was he
was his second attempt to try to
lead a march in support of
garbage workers who were on
strike.
And the first one had devolved
into this into chaos where you
had destruction on Beale Street
and that sort of thing.
And he was so dismayed by what
happened.
Felt I need to go back and we
need to do it right.
And so when you have the you
know the the foremost civil
rights leader of his time and
maybe of all time even he was
not able to control what was
going on in that situation.
So you know there were there
will be you get a big crowd of
people together at night and
this this will happen.
And there is also we've also had
situations where police officers
in some situations have maybe
overreacted because of the
tension of the situation and
that's been a problem too.
You wrote a column that I
thought was great recently where
you talked about the underlying
issues the underlying tension
with the protests.
So we have a pandemic
disproportionately affecting
certain communities.
We have an economic crisis this
report that Fortunately
Americans are committed to this
long list of people being
basically murdered by bad
actors.
Can you talk about that a little
bit.
Yeah I mean this is I mean we
were really looking at a
situation in this country where
we're we're having the worst
public health crises we've had
in more than a hundred years.
We're having the worst economic
crisis that we've had in more
than 80 years.
And on top of that the issues
that have really been bubbling
under the surface in American
society for four decades I think
they've just really intensified
and people have asked Well what
is it about George Boyd killing
in Minneapolis that has it seems
you've had a different effect.
We've seen protests over other
acts of police brutality.
But I think the just the nature
of this the fact that you had a
police officer who had his knee
on his neck for nine minutes and
people got to see this play out
over such a long period.
I mean when you have Rush
Limbaugh for example you know
has been you know popular
conservative talk show host for
30 plus years saying Oh I think
the police officer should get
this should be a first degree
murder case.
I mean he's basically you're not
you're not really having
disputes.
The truth is self-evident.
That's right.
We've had some instances Trayvon
Martin some other situations
where young black men have been
killed and there has been some
dispute about the facts or what.
Whether justice was served or
not.
I don't think we really have a
dispute now that maybe there's
been a difference in focus.
Maybe the protesters are
focusing more on that killing
and maybe people on the right
are focusing more on what they
think has been an improper
response to it or you know acts
of violence.
But there's not a lot of dispute
about right now about what
happened and that it was wrong.
And so I think that it is
intensified these these these
feelings that we've just in our
society for a long time that
that we don't have that for
African-Americans in this
country.
There is one type of justice
there.
The police approach people of
color in different ways than
they do others.
So you have a lot of colleagues
who are reporters at the Express
News and other outlets who are
kind of in the trenches for
these protests.
What are you hearing from them
and what is your sense of what
it's like to cover this sort of
as a as a reporter in the
protest.
Well I think it's a stressful
thing and I mean you know we had
we've had Tuesday night.
We had you know tear gas and we
had rubber bullets being fired
into a crowd.
We had we had reporters there in
the middle of that.
And it's it's really a very
stressful tough situation.
And you know the sad thing about
it is that I think that the
great majority of people are
trying I think to do the right
thing and they're trying to
approach the police with with
respect they want to see police
reform but they're poaching
individual officers they
encounter with respect and I
think that there are police
officers who are also trying to
to to do the right thing.
But it seems that you know one
one incident of someone throwing
a bottle or one police officer
maybe you know getting getting
stressed out by the situation
just leads to all kinds of
problems.
So switching gears a little bit
the Republican Party chair here
in Bear County you've been
covering that race for a while.
Well she kind of posted some
conspiracy theories about the
George Floyd murder what's going
on there.
Yeah.
This week Cynthia Braham posted
a face had a Facebook post in
which she threw out the theory
that the killing of George Floyd
may have been staged and did not
say that she believed this to be
true but kind of asked the
question Is it possible that
this is what happened and the
popular rhetorical device.
Right.
What do you think staged.
And so you know the the I think
the theory at work was that she
she found some some aspects of
the story suspicious and and she
suggested and I don't know that
there's data to back this up.
But she suggested that President
Trump is seeking greater
approval among African-American
voters than he has in the past
and that this may have been a
staged event to try to undermine
that and create racial tension
or increase racial tension in
the United States.
And I think you know some of the
people who were her Facebook
friends responded you know they
took it seriously and that which
I find kind of bizarre.
I don't think you know chief.
She has a tough runoff race with
a man named John Austin who is a
real estate appraiser and has
been involved in the Republican
Party and you know I think that
one of the things we're holding
you have to reckon with is the
fact that this person who's been
in charge the party has just in
the last three months has thrown
out the theory that George Floyd
and Kelly may have staged that
the corona virus may have been a
hoax promulgated by Democrats to
bring down President Trump and
also has accused the Bear County
Elections Department of vote
tampering and almost pulled out
of the joint primary that we
haven't Bear County.
So I think Republican voters are
going to have to decide who do
they what's what is going to
help them try to help me win
elections in November and just
run run the organization or do
they want someone who's going to
be putting these theories out so
that's good.
You're describing a post truth
politician you're really
interested in the truth.
I know that your colleagues
these rescues are too.
Do you think they're going to be
able to continue to cover this
with its level of intensity and
fairness if this story continues
to play out the way they are
talking about the brand.
I know I'm sorry that the Black
Lives Matter protests and the
George Floyd.
Yeah I think so.
I mean I really think I know
that the press gets a lot of
criticism in this country from
from from all angles.
But I really do think that we've
seen people trying to deal with
the nuance of of the protests
and what happened in this case
and there is a lot of nuance to
it.
There are I mean I saw the
footage and in Nashville for
example of a middle aged
African-American man scolding a
young white kid who was
committing an act of vandalism
saying you know you're going to
you we're going to get blamed
for this and you're going to be
making us look.
So there's that there's all
kinds of complexity to what's
going on here.
Where do we look at it.
You know we look at the issue of
police reform or we look at the
racial issues and it certainly
really demands some coverage
that's going to approach it with
that nuance requires a
discerning eye over Garcia.
Thank you for joining us so
much.
I thank you for joining us for
this special edition of On The
Record as always go to Kayla
encore for this episode of
previous episodes and video
podcast form.
We'll see you next week.
Thank you.