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(Music) Holcomb still won't

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endorse in the governor's

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race. Hospital leaders feel

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targeted by 2023 legislation.

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Plus Rokita urging National

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Guardsmen to the border and

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more. On the television

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studios at WFYI, it's Indiana

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Week in Review for the week

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ending May 19 May 19, 2023.

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>> Indiana Week in Review is

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made possible by the

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supporters of Indiana public

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broadcasting stations.

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>> This week, Governor Eric

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Is still unwilling to say who

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these endorsing in the race to

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replace him. The Republican

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primary candidates for

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governor are US Senator Mike

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Brown, Fort Wayne businessmen

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Eric Doden and Holcomb's

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lieutenant governor, Suzanne

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Crouch.

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>> Holcomb previously said he

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would hold off on any

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endorsement until after the

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2023 legislative session. Now

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he wants to extend that out a

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little further.

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>> I am making sure that we

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stick the landing coming out

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of session. It's still May.

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>> Holcomb insists that

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holding off on any endorsement

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isn't awkward for his

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governing partner, Suzanne

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Crouch. He says it's important

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for any candidate to establish

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that they are their own

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person.

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>> I don't want anyone

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thinking that just because she

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and I work so closely together

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that she's a clone of me.

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>> The 2024 gubernatorial

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primaries next May.

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>> Is it awkward that Holcomb

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hasn't endorsed in a

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gubernatorial primary that

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includes his lieutenant

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governor? It's the first

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question for our panel.

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Democrat Elise Shrock,

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Republican Mike O'Brien, John

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Schwantes host of Indiana

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Lawmakers and Niki Kelly,

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editor-in-chief of the Indiana

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Capital Chronicle. I'm Indiana

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public broadcasting to a host

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bureau chief Brandon Smith.

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Elise Shrock, I think everyone

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assumes Holcomb will endorse

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Coach. Is it awkward that he

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hasn't done

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it? >> It's awkward and they

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have to work together and

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that's got to have some...

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ABACLE it's not like he has a

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lot of precedent for this

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because he became that

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candidate like four months

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before an election so this is

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new.

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>> But there has to be some

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tension there and I guess we

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will have to wait and see.

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>> So years, has he put

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himself into this position

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which he could have just said,

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I'm not going to endorse

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anybody. I wanted to be an

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open primary I want to put my

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finger on the scale that why

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not do that? Because everyone

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assumes you will endorse your

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running mate, why not say

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"Yeah she is my pic. "

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>> Think about the three

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candidates in the primary.

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What are the attack lines on

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each other? Pro-life,

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pro-life, where are you

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differentiating yourself in

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the base and one way I think

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Eric Doden and Mike Braun will

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try to separate from Suzanne

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Crouch is on the

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vulnerabilities that Governor

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Holcomb has with the

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Republican base. Coming out of

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COVID we saw that player at

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the convention last year. So I

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think it is prudent for

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Suzanne to have a little space

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here. To go create her own

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identity. To create her own

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message that she has as we

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noted previously, tack hard to

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the right on some social media

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and some other things that

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what is Eric Holcomb? Not

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Republican in the primary? So

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I think she needs a little

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space to create her own

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identity or elevator identity

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from what it is as auditor or

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state representative. And if

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you are not strategic about

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when these endorsements are

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coming, particularly the

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biggest one, the sitting

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governor, you've got to think

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about that and is it helpful?

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That is a question. And when

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is it helpful?

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>> This is a question I want

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to ask you Jon. Mike just

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talked about with the

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Republican primary base, and a

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certain wing of the Republican

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primary, Eric Holcomb is not

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the most popular guy in the

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world. This goes mostly back

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to COVID I feel like. There

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are some other, he vetoed the

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trans- high school sports bill

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last year and has done other

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things that have angered hard

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right conservatives but, is an

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Eric Holcomb endorsement

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helpful to Suzanne Crouch?

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>> You know? I don't think it

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would hurt, certainly the

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power of incumbency when you

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have a sitting governor yes

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you do have the friction with

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the right wing of the party,

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dating back to COVID and the

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emergency orders and a lot of

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things that the governor

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overreached and adopted a big

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brother approach to

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governance. But what are his

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options? Does he endorse

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Jennifer McCormick, the likely

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Democratic? But if the theory

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is that his endorsement is

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bad, for Republicans, if you

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really want to play multilayer

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chess year, then he should

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endorse the Democrat,

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therefore to drive people to

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the Republican... I think we

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are overthinking it. I think

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the easiest thing would've

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been to simply say, especially

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if you are uncertain or don't

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have a lot of skin in the game

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or expend a lot of capital is

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say of course, this has been

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my partner in governance for X

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number of years, I would love

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to see a continuation of what

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we have built together. Done.

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There are a lot of people who

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don't want to see a

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continuation of what they

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built together not because of

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record job growth and wage

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increases and record

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investment in education, none

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of that stuff

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that >> That terrible stuff

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that >> Small business and

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Conrad Holcomb in the summer

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of 2020.

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>> $$CAPITALISE@Jennifer

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McCormick endorsement.

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>> If he endorses her, then

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you give Bron and Jodi and the

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chance, to the crowd, the

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Conrad Holcomb crowd. But here

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is the primary,

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>> Here's the thing, let's say

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Holcomb never endorses

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that >> She is already going

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to get those because she is

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part of that administration. I

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almost don't even wonder if he

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would endorse her or if that

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would hurt her because

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everyone who is already

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against Holcomb assumes she

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lines up with him. On those

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pigs issues.

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>> Or at least will be able to

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say that.

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>> I think she is already

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going to get that bit so at

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least from the far right. So

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his endorsement could help

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some sway for some more

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moderates.

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>> To the point where because

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everybody just assumes he is

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for her, the fact that he

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won't say that he is, starts

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to feel like, is there a

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reason you don't like her? The

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reason you don't trust her? I

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don't think that is true. It

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is an awkward position. But I

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think wouldn't it have been

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better, I will ask you this,

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wouldn't it have been better

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for him to say I am sitting

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this out.

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>> It would have been a lot

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less messy I think and I think

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often when you are explaining,

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he has gotten himself into

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that area where he is going to

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have to be explaining either

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way, more than endorsing.

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>> He should get a job as the

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head of a public university.

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Take that job and check out.

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Then he can get out of 24

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altogether.

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>> Time now for viewer

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feedback. Each week we post an

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unscientific full question and

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this week the question is:

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Will Governor Eric Holcomb's

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endorsement in the

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gubernatorial race make an

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impact? And last week we asked

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whether you were surprised

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that Senator Todd Young won't

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back Donald Trump for the GOP

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nomination for president. 59%

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said no. If you want to take

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part in the poll go to

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wfyi.org/iwir and look for the

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poll.

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>> Healthcare prices in

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Indiana are among the highest

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in the nation and lawmakers

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try to address it with a pair

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of bills. 1 of them takes aim

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at Indian's largest nonprofit

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hospital systems.

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>> The bills original language

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called for penalties if

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hospitals charge higher than a

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certain benchmark. But the

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version signed into law by the

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governor instead establishes a

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healthcare cost oversight

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, to study a range of issues

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related to healthcare costs in

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the state and recommend ways

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to reduce them. The measure

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also requires a third-party

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contractor to look at the

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prices of Indiana's five

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biggest hospital systems and

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compare them to a new, higher

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benchmark 285% of what

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Medicare pays. Gloria Sachdev

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with the employer's form of

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Indiana says nonetheless, the

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spool two bill moves the

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needle significantly.

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>> It's the best bill we've

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had ever that actually is

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going to help reduce prices.

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>> But hospital leaders take

290
00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,633
issue with the way the bill

291
00:08:59,633 --> 00:09:00,633
singles out certain hospitals

292
00:09:00,633 --> 00:09:01,866
that they say lawmakers are

293
00:09:01,866 --> 00:09:03,466
not doing enough to address

294
00:09:03,466 --> 00:09:04,433
the states low Medicaid

295
00:09:04,433 --> 00:09:05,200
reimbursement rates, which

296
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,600
they say drives them to raise

297
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:07,766
their prices, or to address

298
00:09:07,766 --> 00:09:09,800
the role of insurance

299
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:10,766
companies and drugmakers in

300
00:09:10,766 --> 00:09:11,733
driving up healthcare costs.

301
00:09:11,733 --> 00:09:12,800
The bill also includes

302
00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,000
language to crack down on

303
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,033
so-called facility fees that

304
00:09:15,033 --> 00:09:16,466
hospitals might tack on to

305
00:09:16,466 --> 00:09:17,700
medical bills even if the

306
00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:18,666
services were provided in

307
00:09:18,666 --> 00:09:23,333
nonhospital settings.

308
00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:24,666
>> Mike O'Brien will this bill

309
00:09:24,666 --> 00:09:25,666
actually help lower healthcare

310
00:09:25,666 --> 00:09:28,433
costs for users?

311
00:09:28,433 --> 00:09:29,766
>> If you believe what the

312
00:09:29,766 --> 00:09:30,766
hospitals are saying, yeah.

313
00:09:30,766 --> 00:09:32,233
I've worked in the payer side

314
00:09:32,233 --> 00:09:34,833
for a long time. Just to let

315
00:09:34,833 --> 00:09:35,966
you know, I was pretty

316
00:09:35,966 --> 00:09:37,233
involved in this over the

317
00:09:37,233 --> 00:09:38,933
years but what do we do in

318
00:09:38,933 --> 00:09:40,133
healthcare? We buy it from

319
00:09:40,133 --> 00:09:43,966
Hoss bubbles mostly. When you

320
00:09:43,966 --> 00:09:45,200
get the rub with lowering

321
00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:46,433
healthcare costs as you are

322
00:09:46,433 --> 00:09:47,400
reducing or bending, or

323
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,366
reducing the increase, what

324
00:09:49,366 --> 00:09:50,566
you're really doing, in the

325
00:09:50,566 --> 00:09:52,466
amount of money you are

326
00:09:52,466 --> 00:09:53,666
sending to providers. So when

327
00:09:53,666 --> 00:09:54,900
the providers say this will

328
00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:56,400
hurt us, the are right. That

329
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,800
was the point because we had

330
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,033
the highest hospital costs in

331
00:10:01,033 --> 00:10:06,600
the country. And we had the

332
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:07,566
nonprofits sitting on billions

333
00:10:07,566 --> 00:10:09,033
of dollars in surplus Is what

334
00:10:09,033 --> 00:10:10,233
attracted the attention of the

335
00:10:10,233 --> 00:10:10,966
legislator, particularly the

336
00:10:10,966 --> 00:10:12,433
speaker of the house. You try

337
00:10:12,433 --> 00:10:14,333
to do something with the start

338
00:10:14,333 --> 00:10:15,800
the one issue that no one

339
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:16,966
really talks about because it

340
00:10:16,966 --> 00:10:18,200
is technical is the hospitals

341
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:19,866
for a long time, there is a

342
00:10:19,866 --> 00:10:21,066
concept of sight of service.

343
00:10:21,066 --> 00:10:22,500
What type of facility do you

344
00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:27,133
have? Is it in a strip mall or

345
00:10:27,133 --> 00:10:28,600
is it a giant hospital. It

346
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:29,333
requires a different

347
00:10:29,333 --> 00:10:30,300
reimbursement rate. Or years

348
00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:31,533
hospitals billed at the higher

349
00:10:31,533 --> 00:10:35,633
rate and make it illegal.

350
00:10:35,633 --> 00:10:36,600
Congress introduced a bill

351
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:37,800
this week to make that

352
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,266
illegal. I think it will and

353
00:10:39,266 --> 00:10:40,466
its most significant bill they

354
00:10:40,466 --> 00:10:41,700
have passed. And there are

355
00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:43,466
some unique concepts in here

356
00:10:43,466 --> 00:10:57,366
that the rate, of huge

357
00:10:57,366 --> 00:10:59,066
For they have some skin in the

358
00:10:59,066 --> 00:11:00,333
game to pave the outcome.

359
00:11:00,333 --> 00:11:01,266
Whatever the patient outcome

360
00:11:01,266 --> 00:11:02,233
is affects the reimbursement

361
00:11:02,233 --> 00:11:03,433
rate that it was pretty

362
00:11:03,433 --> 00:11:04,866
creative that how the house in

363
00:11:04,866 --> 00:11:06,133
particular and the Senate in

364
00:11:06,133 --> 00:11:07,633
the second half of the Senate

365
00:11:07,633 --> 00:11:09,500
-- session, if you believe the

366
00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:10,033
hospitals it will have an

367
00:11:10,033 --> 00:11:10,366
impact.

368
00:11:10,366 --> 00:11:11,000
>> So the hospitals, some of

369
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:16,200
them I think, there like there

370
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,400
is nothing wrong with our

371
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:18,133
prices whatsoever. Some

372
00:11:18,133 --> 00:11:19,366
hospitals are like yeah we

373
00:11:19,366 --> 00:11:20,566
need to collectively look at

374
00:11:20,566 --> 00:11:21,800
the start the hospital problem

375
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,133
seems to be your only looking

376
00:11:23,133 --> 00:11:29,566
at us. Is that the biggest

377
00:11:29,566 --> 00:11:30,033
issue with this

378
00:11:30,033 --> 00:11:31,300
legislation? >> I think one of

379
00:11:31,300 --> 00:11:32,500
the failings of the whole

380
00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:33,966
process is the fact that the

381
00:11:33,966 --> 00:11:34,900
hospitals were called into

382
00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:35,866
question. Not the insurance

383
00:11:35,866 --> 00:11:36,866
companies. And not the

384
00:11:36,866 --> 00:11:37,600
pharmaceutical companies. They

385
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:38,833
weren't brought to the table

386
00:11:38,833 --> 00:11:40,300
on this at the same rate.

387
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:41,233
Hospitals also said "Hey,

388
00:11:41,233 --> 00:11:43,333
Medicaid reimbursement are a

389
00:11:43,333 --> 00:11:44,766
big problem when it comes to

390
00:11:44,766 --> 00:11:46,566
passing on costs " that

391
00:11:46,566 --> 00:11:48,933
Medicaid reimbursement

392
00:11:48,933 --> 00:11:52,333
lighting in Indiana, they

393
00:11:52,333 --> 00:11:53,300
afforded some relief to

394
00:11:53,300 --> 00:11:54,300
practitioners but not the

395
00:11:54,300 --> 00:11:55,466
hospitals. That is a problem.

396
00:11:55,466 --> 00:11:58,533
So, this bill has some good

397
00:11:58,533 --> 00:12:00,066
stuff in it, sure. Moving the

398
00:12:00,066 --> 00:12:02,800
ball forward but there are

399
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,000
some ways that it is really

400
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,066
lacking and I don't know that

401
00:12:07,066 --> 00:12:08,666
because of that we will see

402
00:12:08,666 --> 00:12:10,766
certainly not an immediate

403
00:12:10,766 --> 00:12:15,000
impact but I'm not sure it is

404
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:15,633
going to help in the way that

405
00:12:15,633 --> 00:12:16,233
people are really struggling

406
00:12:16,233 --> 00:12:16,833
and need that help.

407
00:12:16,833 --> 00:12:19,066
>> As of this week we are home

408
00:12:19,066 --> 00:12:20,333
to the most valuable drugmaker

409
00:12:20,333 --> 00:12:24,066
on the planet.

410
00:12:24,066 --> 00:12:25,433
>> Is that part of the

411
00:12:25,433 --> 00:12:26,633
problem? Is the fact that

412
00:12:26,633 --> 00:12:29,800
there are some influential

413
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:30,800
insurance and drugmakers here

414
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:40,033
in Indiana.

415
00:12:40,033 --> 00:12:40,533
>> There were some other

416
00:12:40,533 --> 00:12:41,100
bills, there was a pharmacy

417
00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:41,633
benefit manager bill that

418
00:12:41,633 --> 00:12:42,133
looked at some of these

419
00:12:42,133 --> 00:12:42,466
issues.

420
00:12:42,466 --> 00:12:43,033
>> I want to talk about that

421
00:12:43,033 --> 00:12:43,333
more.

422
00:12:43,333 --> 00:12:43,966
>> There were some other bills

423
00:12:43,966 --> 00:12:45,500
that I think all of them, if

424
00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:47,433
you looked at all of them as a

425
00:12:47,433 --> 00:12:48,133
package, they obviously

426
00:12:48,133 --> 00:12:49,633
started very aggressive and

427
00:12:49,633 --> 00:12:51,433
kind of slowly pulled back. On

428
00:12:51,433 --> 00:12:57,600
one hand, if the hospital, you

429
00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,100
could say in your mind, if

430
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:05,633
hospitals are so scared, then

431
00:13:05,633 --> 00:13:07,100
it must really have an impact

432
00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:08,533
right? But on the other hand,

433
00:13:08,533 --> 00:13:10,000
and what I heard from some

434
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:10,900
lawmakers especially in rural

435
00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:12,066
areas, is that they are

436
00:13:12,066 --> 00:13:13,066
worried about hospitals and

437
00:13:13,066 --> 00:13:14,466
providers will say "I'm out ".

438
00:13:14,466 --> 00:13:16,166
And we already live in a state

439
00:13:16,166 --> 00:13:17,366
where most counties in this

440
00:13:17,366 --> 00:13:18,566
state don't have a hospital.

441
00:13:18,566 --> 00:13:26,100
So there is a fine balance

442
00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:26,666
between what lawmakers are

443
00:13:26,666 --> 00:13:27,100
trying to do.

444
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:27,766
>> To that and then, because

445
00:13:27,766 --> 00:13:29,166
that is part of the concern

446
00:13:29,166 --> 00:13:30,333
here, this bill in particular

447
00:13:30,333 --> 00:13:31,000
really only targeted

448
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,166
hospitals. So as Nikki pointed

449
00:13:32,166 --> 00:13:34,633
out, this was a lot more

450
00:13:34,633 --> 00:13:35,600
aggressive when you're talking

451
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,166
about penalties that that is

452
00:13:37,166 --> 00:13:39,133
significant. And they pulled

453
00:13:39,133 --> 00:13:41,133
way back from that to "We will

454
00:13:41,133 --> 00:13:44,133
have somebody look at them and

455
00:13:44,133 --> 00:13:45,566
them will have a task force

456
00:13:45,566 --> 00:13:47,000
look at them". Did they pull

457
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:57,633
back too far?

458
00:13:57,633 --> 00:13:58,200
Or did they pull back enough

459
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:58,766
to make sure that hospital

460
00:13:58,766 --> 00:13:59,166
stay open?

461
00:13:59,166 --> 00:13:59,766
>> That is the big question.

462
00:13:59,766 --> 00:14:00,933
Keep in mind as we've

463
00:14:00,933 --> 00:14:02,133
discussed before, this is not

464
00:14:02,133 --> 00:14:03,133
a Republican versus Democratic

465
00:14:03,133 --> 00:14:04,333
issue. It is much more

466
00:14:04,333 --> 00:14:05,300
geography-based and is my

467
00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:06,500
district home to a hospital

468
00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:07,866
that fits this description and

469
00:14:07,866 --> 00:14:11,233
would be in a precarious

470
00:14:11,233 --> 00:14:12,233
financially position if this

471
00:14:12,233 --> 00:14:16,433
had been enacted as originally

472
00:14:16,433 --> 00:14:16,833
introduced.

473
00:14:16,833 --> 00:14:17,700
>> It is no surprise why

474
00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:18,700
hospitals were the target

475
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:19,900
here. The surplus that we

476
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:27,600
heard so much about,...

477
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:28,166
>> Particularly at nonprofit

478
00:14:28,166 --> 00:14:28,533
hospitals

479
00:14:28,533 --> 00:14:29,033
that >> Some nonprofit

480
00:14:29,033 --> 00:14:29,833
hospitals which is another

481
00:14:29,833 --> 00:14:31,066
point probably makes us even

482
00:14:31,066 --> 00:14:33,733
more complicated. But when you

483
00:14:33,733 --> 00:14:35,400
look at, as you pointed out in

484
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,833
the open, the reimbursement, I

485
00:14:38,833 --> 00:14:40,266
should say the cost is among

486
00:14:40,266 --> 00:14:41,700
the highest in the country but

487
00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:42,433
physician reimbursements are

488
00:14:42,433 --> 00:14:43,900
among the lowest if not the

489
00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:47,100
lowest. So if you look at

490
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:48,533
those two factors alone, and I

491
00:14:48,533 --> 00:14:54,366
know there are other issues,

492
00:14:54,366 --> 00:14:55,800
but if doctors are getting the

493
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:56,800
money, where's the money

494
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,233
going? It is going into the

495
00:14:58,233 --> 00:14:59,700
system and where does it come

496
00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:01,166
out? It makes an easy target

497
00:15:01,166 --> 00:15:02,666
but the other point is that

498
00:15:02,666 --> 00:15:03,866
you are right, nonprofit is

499
00:15:03,866 --> 00:15:04,800
not nonprofit is not

500
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:05,700
nonprofit. There are those

501
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:06,900
that are barely scraping by

502
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:08,366
and there are others that were

503
00:15:08,366 --> 00:15:10,100
in a position to give half $1

504
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:11,100
billion contribution to for

505
00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:12,100
instance the IV medical

506
00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:24,433
school. And trying to come up

507
00:15:24,433 --> 00:15:24,966
A mechanism that encourages

508
00:15:24,966 --> 00:15:25,533
cost efficiency across the

509
00:15:25,533 --> 00:15:26,166
whole spectrum is pretty tough

510
00:15:26,166 --> 00:15:26,766
because they don't look like

511
00:15:26,766 --> 00:15:27,366
and don't operate like

512
00:15:27,366 --> 00:15:27,966
that >> Hospitals don't exist

513
00:15:27,966 --> 00:15:28,600
in a vacuum. Healthcare field

514
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:29,066
is much more vast.

515
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:37,700
>> Some of what leads to

516
00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:38,400
incredibly high healthcare

517
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,133
costs in Indiana is we are an

518
00:15:40,133 --> 00:15:41,133
unhealthy state which is

519
00:15:41,133 --> 00:15:42,533
partly why we are doing this

520
00:15:42,533 --> 00:15:43,700
public health Bush and mental

521
00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:45,100
health push and all that done

522
00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:47,066
it is good. Let me ask you won

523
00:15:47,066 --> 00:15:48,233
last question Mike, is this

524
00:15:48,233 --> 00:15:49,866
it? Are they going to take a

525
00:15:49,866 --> 00:15:52,333
little bit of a... I don't

526
00:15:52,333 --> 00:15:54,000
mean ever but is this like OK

527
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:54,966
we've done something let's

528
00:15:54,966 --> 00:15:56,700
give it a few years and see

529
00:15:56,700 --> 00:16:01,566
what happens. Are we coming

530
00:16:01,566 --> 00:16:01,933
back next

531
00:16:01,933 --> 00:16:03,166
year? >> I think this is

532
00:16:03,166 --> 00:16:04,400
pretty significant. This was a

533
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,833
huge lift and undertaking by a

534
00:16:05,833 --> 00:16:07,066
lot of legislators in the

535
00:16:07,066 --> 00:16:08,233
House and Senate and both

536
00:16:08,233 --> 00:16:09,233
parties. There is always

537
00:16:09,233 --> 00:16:10,433
something done we are always

538
00:16:10,433 --> 00:16:16,433
around the edges of one off

539
00:16:16,433 --> 00:16:16,933
healthcare problems and

540
00:16:16,933 --> 00:16:17,500
experience in what had they

541
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:17,900
didn't like

542
00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:18,466
that >> I don't think we'll

543
00:16:18,466 --> 00:16:19,866
have a choice, we are doing

544
00:16:19,866 --> 00:16:22,266
the unwinding from the COVID

545
00:16:22,266 --> 00:16:22,966
era, Medicaid eligibility and

546
00:16:22,966 --> 00:16:23,433
so, >> That's the next

547
00:16:23,433 --> 00:16:23,700
problem.

548
00:16:28,633 --> 00:16:30,100
>> The argument you made is

549
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:31,066
the same one hospitals

550
00:16:31,066 --> 00:16:32,333
advanced at the beginning of

551
00:16:32,333 --> 00:16:33,500
the session saying we are

552
00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:34,666
waiting for some of the

553
00:16:34,666 --> 00:16:35,366
earlier prescriptive measures

554
00:16:35,366 --> 00:16:36,633
tht were imposed earlier to

555
00:16:36,633 --> 00:16:38,233
bear fruit. We are not there

556
00:16:38,233 --> 00:16:45,266
yet. So already we are making

557
00:16:45,266 --> 00:16:45,866
the argument even before this

558
00:16:45,866 --> 00:16:46,500
legislation was enacted.

559
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:47,900
>> Attorney generally --

560
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:48,866
attorney Attorney General Todd

561
00:16:48,866 --> 00:16:57,266
Rokita told WIS HDV, that

562
00:16:57,266 --> 00:16:58,233
Governor Eric Holcomb should

563
00:16:58,233 --> 00:16:58,833
join a few other Republican

564
00:16:58,833 --> 00:16:59,433
governors in sending National

565
00:16:59,433 --> 00:16:59,966
Guard and law enforcement

566
00:16:59,966 --> 00:17:00,566
personnel to the country

567
00:17:00,566 --> 00:17:00,966
southern border.

568
00:17:07,266 --> 00:17:08,500
>> Texas Governor Greg Abbott

569
00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:09,900
recently sent a letter to the

570
00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:10,633
nascent governors requesting

571
00:17:10,633 --> 00:17:11,366
support in immigration

572
00:17:11,366 --> 00:17:12,333
enforcement after the Biden

573
00:17:12,333 --> 00:17:13,266
administration lifted title 42

574
00:17:13,266 --> 00:17:14,500
is pandemic your policy that

575
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:15,700
had shut down almost all

576
00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:16,933
avenues for migrants to seek

577
00:17:16,933 --> 00:17:21,133
asylum in the US. Holcomb and

578
00:17:21,133 --> 00:17:22,166
23 other governors reluctantly

579
00:17:22,166 --> 00:17:22,766
signed onto a statement from

580
00:17:22,766 --> 00:17:23,300
the Republican Governors

581
00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:23,800
Association supporting

582
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:24,300
Abbott's efforts on the

583
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:24,533
border.

584
00:17:24,833 --> 00:17:38,000
>> A statement supporting

585
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:38,566
That a lot of Governor signed

586
00:17:38,566 --> 00:17:39,133
onto his wanting, personnel

587
00:17:39,133 --> 00:17:39,733
and resources are an entirely

588
00:17:39,733 --> 00:17:40,300
different thing. What does

589
00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:40,700
Holcomb do

590
00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:41,266
here? >> Right now they are

591
00:17:41,266 --> 00:17:41,866
standing pat. I reached out

592
00:17:41,866 --> 00:17:43,100
this week and asked and they

593
00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:44,566
said, "We have had 22 National

594
00:17:44,566 --> 00:17:45,833
Guard members down here for

595
00:17:45,833 --> 00:17:47,266
maybe the last year. As part

596
00:17:47,266 --> 00:17:51,066
of a smaller issue but... It's

597
00:17:51,066 --> 00:17:52,500
part of a federal mission so

598
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:53,733
they weren't really in charge

599
00:17:53,733 --> 00:17:55,166
of that order. But right now,

600
00:17:55,166 --> 00:17:56,566
they don't have any plans to

601
00:17:56,566 --> 00:18:03,533
do more to I think, yeah, I

602
00:18:03,533 --> 00:18:04,933
think he's in a tight position

603
00:18:04,933 --> 00:18:06,166
on that one. Because other

604
00:18:06,166 --> 00:18:07,400
states are starting to react

605
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,600
and send down there. And Todd

606
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:10,700
Rokita especially is making it

607
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:11,200
hard for the governor.

608
00:18:11,866 --> 00:18:17,066
>> Would making this decision,

609
00:18:17,066 --> 00:18:18,066
let's not pretend that

610
00:18:18,066 --> 00:18:22,533
politics never enters the

611
00:18:22,533 --> 00:18:23,866
governor's mind while making a

612
00:18:23,866 --> 00:18:25,333
decision as much as he might

613
00:18:25,333 --> 00:18:26,333
say otherwise sometimes. But

614
00:18:26,333 --> 00:18:30,033
is making it easier for Eric

615
00:18:30,033 --> 00:18:31,433
Holcomb who is not running for

616
00:18:31,433 --> 00:18:32,900
anything in 2024, not as far

617
00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:34,600
as we are aware that so that

618
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,600
politics here don't impact him

619
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:39,066
nearly as much.

620
00:18:39,066 --> 00:18:39,933
>> They probably don't impact

621
00:18:39,933 --> 00:18:41,066
him as much as those

622
00:18:41,066 --> 00:18:42,033
individuals who are running

623
00:18:42,033 --> 00:18:43,266
and trying to advance the

624
00:18:43,266 --> 00:18:44,466
narrative that there is a

625
00:18:44,466 --> 00:18:47,100
crisis. An unprecedented

626
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:48,300
crisis on the southern borders

627
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:50,933
and this is a threat to our

628
00:18:50,933 --> 00:18:51,933
very democracy and existence.

629
00:18:51,933 --> 00:18:54,400
Which most accounts suggest

630
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,500
that is not the case. There is

631
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:57,733
another big problem here about

632
00:18:57,733 --> 00:19:00,866
the legality of these

633
00:19:00,866 --> 00:19:02,266
individuals that now, you can

634
00:19:02,266 --> 00:19:04,866
use generally speaking, guard

635
00:19:04,866 --> 00:19:07,133
individuals men and women in

636
00:19:07,133 --> 00:19:09,166
law enforcement roles. Some

637
00:19:09,166 --> 00:19:16,866
states have said, we won't

638
00:19:16,866 --> 00:19:17,866
send our National Guard

639
00:19:17,866 --> 00:19:19,100
troops, we will send state

640
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:20,366
troopers or we will send

641
00:19:20,366 --> 00:19:22,166
criminal investigators. There

642
00:19:22,166 --> 00:19:23,633
is no certainty they have any

643
00:19:23,633 --> 00:19:24,800
legal authority in the state

644
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,233
of Texas. And in fact, there

645
00:19:26,233 --> 00:19:27,466
is a pretty large contingent

646
00:19:27,466 --> 00:19:32,733
of legal, a scholarship that

647
00:19:32,733 --> 00:19:33,933
suggested they try to make

648
00:19:33,933 --> 00:19:35,133
arrests of people that are

649
00:19:35,133 --> 00:19:36,333
crossing the border and so

650
00:19:36,333 --> 00:19:37,533
forth, they could be subject

651
00:19:37,533 --> 00:19:38,500
to wrongful arrest or

652
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:41,733
essentially, legal challenges

653
00:19:41,733 --> 00:19:42,966
that for an improper arrest

654
00:19:42,966 --> 00:19:44,166
where they have no authority.

655
00:19:44,166 --> 00:19:47,533
And because of that, and Texas

656
00:19:47,533 --> 00:19:48,733
I think even recognizes that,

657
00:19:48,733 --> 00:19:51,566
you have Ohio State troopers

658
00:19:51,566 --> 00:19:52,733
in the past year that

659
00:19:52,733 --> 00:19:53,700
essentially because of this

660
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:54,933
issue were cleaning out the

661
00:19:54,933 --> 00:19:56,100
horse stables. The manure in

662
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:57,333
the horse stables that the

663
00:19:57,333 --> 00:20:00,233
border patrol agents used. So

664
00:20:00,233 --> 00:20:05,300
I guess that frees up agent to

665
00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:06,766
clean out manure in the barn

666
00:20:06,766 --> 00:20:10,466
but it's not as if they're

667
00:20:10,466 --> 00:20:11,100
going down to be the frontline

668
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:11,633
Vanguard of defending the

669
00:20:11,633 --> 00:20:11,966
borders

670
00:20:11,966 --> 00:20:12,666
that >> Manure in the barn

671
00:20:12,666 --> 00:20:20,233
start >> Let me ask this

672
00:20:20,233 --> 00:20:21,433
question because I think the

673
00:20:21,433 --> 00:20:22,600
average person thinks of the

674
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,566
National Guard and law

675
00:20:23,566 --> 00:20:24,333
enforcement very differently.

676
00:20:24,333 --> 00:20:25,600
We often see the Indiana

677
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:26,766
National Guard being sent to

678
00:20:26,766 --> 00:20:27,966
other states to help with

679
00:20:27,966 --> 00:20:28,933
disaster recovery and that's

680
00:20:28,933 --> 00:20:30,133
an important function in the

681
00:20:30,133 --> 00:20:31,600
National Guard place across

682
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:32,833
the country. Sending them to

683
00:20:32,833 --> 00:20:34,333
Texas to do something to the

684
00:20:34,333 --> 00:20:37,166
average Hoosier would go, we

685
00:20:37,166 --> 00:20:38,600
send them to other states all

686
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:39,866
the time. But sending Indiana

687
00:20:39,866 --> 00:20:44,533
police to another state and

688
00:20:44,533 --> 00:20:45,533
theoretically then taking them

689
00:20:45,533 --> 00:20:46,500
away from Indiana and

690
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:47,066
protecting people here at

691
00:20:47,066 --> 00:20:47,633
home, is that a good

692
00:20:47,633 --> 00:20:51,000
idea? >> That's a consequence

693
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,700
of doing that for sure. What I

694
00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:56,466
think Todd Rokita has a point.

695
00:20:56,466 --> 00:20:57,833
>> That hasn't been set on

696
00:20:57,833 --> 00:21:00,500
this show. (Laughs)

697
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:05,900
>> This has changed

698
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:06,866
drastically, in April 2020

699
00:21:06,866 --> 00:21:07,833
there were 17,000 border

700
00:21:07,833 --> 00:21:13,666
crossings and in 2023 there

701
00:21:13,666 --> 00:21:14,733
were 211,000. The argument

702
00:21:14,733 --> 00:21:15,933
that why would Indiana redo

703
00:21:15,933 --> 00:21:17,400
that? It's in Arizona or Texas

704
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,933
problem. The argument is, this

705
00:21:18,933 --> 00:21:20,166
is starting to affect all

706
00:21:20,166 --> 00:21:21,866
major metropolitan cities. As

707
00:21:21,866 --> 00:21:23,133
the sheer volume of the

708
00:21:23,133 --> 00:21:27,466
migration coming in, they're

709
00:21:27,466 --> 00:21:29,133
going to El Paso but they are

710
00:21:29,133 --> 00:21:32,633
going everywhere. I am not

711
00:21:32,633 --> 00:21:33,866
saying that we should send

712
00:21:33,866 --> 00:21:35,066
National Guard for that reason

713
00:21:35,066 --> 00:21:36,033
that it depletes resources

714
00:21:36,033 --> 00:21:47,033
here but it does call into, it

715
00:21:47,033 --> 00:21:47,666
brings into focus that this is

716
00:21:47,666 --> 00:21:48,266
a national problem that it is

717
00:21:48,266 --> 00:21:48,833
not a southern border state

718
00:21:48,833 --> 00:21:49,333
problem anymore.

719
00:21:49,333 --> 00:21:49,866
>> It has been and we've

720
00:21:49,866 --> 00:21:50,500
needed immigration reform for

721
00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:52,166
a long time. The fact that the

722
00:21:52,166 --> 00:21:53,333
notion that these types of

723
00:21:53,333 --> 00:22:01,166
immigrants coming in and

724
00:22:01,166 --> 00:22:02,633
people who need to seek asylum

725
00:22:02,633 --> 00:22:04,100
and are looking for a better

726
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:05,300
life is everyone's problem is

727
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:06,733
not a Todd Rokita thing. That

728
00:22:06,733 --> 00:22:07,800
is a collective...

729
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,633
>> I don't want to get out of

730
00:22:09,633 --> 00:22:10,866
this topic without asking the

731
00:22:10,866 --> 00:22:12,266
question, I will ask you. A

732
00:22:12,266 --> 00:22:13,666
lot of the attention right now

733
00:22:13,666 --> 00:22:15,166
is because title 42 ended, you

734
00:22:15,166 --> 00:22:16,600
can feel one way or another

735
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,066
about whether that policy

736
00:22:19,066 --> 00:22:20,266
should've been in place this

737
00:22:20,266 --> 00:22:21,533
whole time or whether it

738
00:22:21,533 --> 00:22:23,033
should still be in place, but

739
00:22:23,033 --> 00:22:24,500
it ended. You are seeing a

740
00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:25,700
greater influx of migrants,

741
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:27,133
some people think it's a good

742
00:22:27,133 --> 00:22:35,000
thing. If you are an asylum

743
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,233
seeker we should give you

744
00:22:36,233 --> 00:22:37,400
shelter. Is this a huge

745
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,300
feeling of the Biden

746
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:39,500
administration to not at least

747
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:41,300
be more visibly responding to

748
00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:41,800
what is clearly a

749
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,733
crisis? >> I think every

750
00:22:42,733 --> 00:22:43,666
administration over the last

751
00:22:43,666 --> 00:22:44,900
couple of decades that has

752
00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:45,866
failed to move the

753
00:22:45,866 --> 00:22:47,033
conversation forward or past

754
00:22:47,033 --> 00:22:47,800
immigration reform, has

755
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:55,733
failed. It is a critique you

756
00:22:55,733 --> 00:22:56,700
will hear of the

757
00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:57,366
administration from my

758
00:22:57,366 --> 00:22:58,333
community, the Hispanic and

759
00:22:58,333 --> 00:22:59,500
Latino community, so we need

760
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:01,233
to do more than back to the

761
00:23:01,233 --> 00:23:02,433
question at hand, is sending

762
00:23:02,433 --> 00:23:04,300
our state resources down to

763
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:07,600
some Yosemite Sam mission by

764
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:08,600
Texas governor, the answer

765
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,833
probably not. And I think

766
00:23:14,833 --> 00:23:16,266
there is a lot of fear

767
00:23:16,266 --> 00:23:17,433
mongering when it comes to

768
00:23:17,433 --> 00:23:18,800
this issue that happens in our

769
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,000
state that many people have

770
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,400
bought into it. But it is

771
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,366
usually a political statement.

772
00:23:22,366 --> 00:23:27,000
It is not actually sending our

773
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:27,600
resources that that is why I

774
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:28,166
think the difference in the

775
00:23:28,166 --> 00:23:28,600
conversation.

776
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,133
>> A national and federal

777
00:23:29,133 --> 00:23:29,833
problem are not synonymous and

778
00:23:29,833 --> 00:23:31,266
that is why we don't have

779
00:23:31,266 --> 00:23:32,200
states sending up their

780
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:32,733
helicopters to intercept

781
00:23:32,733 --> 00:23:33,366
Chinese surveillance balloons.

782
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,066
>> And I am waiting to see...

783
00:23:40,066 --> 00:23:41,300
For political reason, what if

784
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:42,466
a president who is a

785
00:23:42,466 --> 00:23:43,433
commander-in-chief tells their

786
00:23:43,433 --> 00:23:44,666
National Guard unit to do

787
00:23:44,666 --> 00:23:48,100
something other... Which is

788
00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:49,433
when you have a constitutional

789
00:23:49,433 --> 00:23:50,600
crisis. That is why generally

790
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,233
speaking, these are, this is a

791
00:23:52,233 --> 00:23:55,900
federal domain. Traditionally

792
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:57,866
done >> It feels to me again,

793
00:23:57,866 --> 00:24:03,966
I don't know what the Biden

794
00:24:03,966 --> 00:24:04,966
administration is doing here.

795
00:24:04,966 --> 00:24:06,200
Maybe they are doing something

796
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,866
but I don't think we know what

797
00:24:07,866 --> 00:24:09,566
that is. That in and of itself

798
00:24:09,566 --> 00:24:11,033
is... There is a lot of

799
00:24:11,033 --> 00:24:15,300
politics going on here but if

800
00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:16,500
a bunch of people in

801
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:17,300
conservative states the

802
00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:18,266
federal government trying to

803
00:24:18,266 --> 00:24:19,733
address the issue in a more

804
00:24:19,733 --> 00:24:22,900
significant way to respond to

805
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:24,100
this, I will quality crisis,

806
00:24:24,100 --> 00:24:25,266
whether the people should be

807
00:24:25,266 --> 00:24:27,200
here or not it is a crisis. So

808
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,133
without them doing something

809
00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:29,733
- more visible, it feels like at

810
00:24:29,733 --> 00:24:44,233
least, leaves the door

811
00:24:44,233 --> 00:24:44,833
For folks to say we have to go

812
00:24:44,833 --> 00:24:45,266
do something.

813
00:24:45,266 --> 00:24:45,833
>> It is a continuation of a

814
00:24:45,833 --> 00:24:46,366
very dangerous political

815
00:24:46,366 --> 00:24:47,000
discourse that it is heaped on

816
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:47,433
top of that.

817
00:24:47,433 --> 00:24:48,000
>> Finally the state unveil

818
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:48,600
some new highway signs this

819
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,266
week that welcoming people to

820
00:24:49,266 --> 00:24:49,800
Indiana, the new signs

821
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:50,533
incorporate the tourism

822
00:24:50,533 --> 00:24:51,733
campaign in Indiana by reading

823
00:24:51,733 --> 00:24:55,633
more to discover in Indiana.

824
00:24:55,633 --> 00:24:58,533
What is your in Indiana pitch.

825
00:24:59,566 --> 00:25:03,700
>> Race in Indiana?

826
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:05,766
>> I

827
00:25:05,766 --> 00:25:09,600
like >> Especially since were

828
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:10,100
doing ahead of the 500.

829
00:25:12,733 --> 00:25:14,666
>> Try not to make the joke of

830
00:25:14,666 --> 00:25:19,766
going backwards in time.

831
00:25:19,766 --> 00:25:20,266
>> That tourism campaign

832
00:25:20,266 --> 00:25:20,866
brought up a lot of that from

833
00:25:20,866 --> 00:25:21,366
a lot of people.

834
00:25:21,366 --> 00:25:22,000
>> I only have things I can't

835
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,633
say publicly. Everything in my

836
00:25:25,633 --> 00:25:26,333
mind are inappropriate things

837
00:25:26,333 --> 00:25:27,200
that >> That was the struggle

838
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,266
with the in Indiana campaign

839
00:25:31,266 --> 00:25:33,100
got >> Take it all in and a

840
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:34,333
lot can happen in Indiana

841
00:25:34,333 --> 00:25:35,433
mild.

842
00:25:35,433 --> 00:25:36,033
>> Today have to pass for

843
00:25:36,033 --> 00:25:37,233
that? >> That's why I am

844
00:25:37,233 --> 00:25:40,700
suggesting it. That's Indiana

845
00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:42,133
Week in Review for this week

846
00:25:42,133 --> 00:25:43,366
that our panel is Democrat

847
00:25:43,366 --> 00:25:44,366
Elise Shrock, publican Mike

848
00:25:44,366 --> 00:26:03,333
O'Brien,

849
00:26:03,333 --> 00:26:04,300
Shortness of Indiana Lawmakers

850
00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:05,766
and Niki Kelly of the Indiana

851
00:26:05,766 --> 00:26:06,766
Capital Chronicle. You can

852
00:26:06,766 --> 00:26:07,966
find Indiana Week in Review

853
00:26:07,966 --> 00:26:08,933
podcast and episodes at

854
00:26:08,933 --> 00:26:10,166
wfyi.org/iwir or on the PBS

855
00:26:10,166 --> 00:26:11,400
video app. I'm Brandon Smith

856
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,166
of Indiana public

857
00:26:12,166 --> 00:26:13,166
broadcasting. Join us next

858
00:26:13,166 --> 00:26:14,633
time because a lot can happen

859
00:26:14,633 --> 00:26:39,733
in an Indiana week. (Music)

860
00:26:39,733 --> 00:26:40,666
>> The opinions expressed are

861
00:26:40,666 --> 00:26:45,133
solely those of the panelists

862
00:26:45,133 --> 00:26:45,900
this was a WFYI