PERHAPS THE FIERCEST POLITICR
WAS WAGED BY TWO ELECTED OFFICIE
BALLOT IN 2014 -- REPUBLICAN GOD
DEMOCRATIC SUPERINTENDENT OF PU.
BOTH TOOK OFFICE IN JANUARY 201,
THEY'VE BEEN VYING FOR CONTROL N
THE STATE.
NOW THEIR FIGHT IS MOVING TO TH.
HI, I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND ON TA
LAWMAKERS," WE'LL TAKE IN-DEPTHE
BATTLE FOR THE FUTURE OF INDIAN.
BATTLE FOR THE FUTURE OF
INDIANA'S SCHOOLS.
HERE WITH A PRIMER ON THE ISSUE
IS ERIC WEDDLE, EDUCATION
REPORTER FOR WFYI PUBLIC MEDIA.
LET'S GO ON WITH THE APPROVAL
OF THE MINUTES, PLEASE.
NO, I DON'T THINK WE NEED --
I THINK WE NEED TO FOLLOW OUR
PROCEDURES.
OUR MEETING PROCEDURES.
YOUR RULING HAS BEEN APPEALED.
ASK FOR THE RULING OF THE
CHAIR.
NOT A RULING THAT'S BEEN
APPEALED.
GLENDA RITZ CLASHED OVER
BOARD GOVERNANCE ALMOST OVER THE
START.
NUMEROUS BILLS SEEMED TO CHANGE
HOW THE SUPERINTENDENT IS CHOSEN
AND HOW THE BOARD OF EDUCATION.
A BILL BY.
LET'S ASSUME THAT
SUPERINTENDENT RITZ IS REELECTED
FOR ANOTHER FOUR-YEAR TERM, WE
CAN'T CONTINUE THIS DYSFUNCTION
IN SIX YEARS.
BUT NOT EVERYONE AGREES
WITHHOLDMAN.
SOME DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS ARE
OPPOSED TO ANY CHANGES THAT
WOULD ALTER RITZ'S CURRENT
RESPONSIBILITY.
DANIEL OLDMAN CALLED IT A
POLITICAL POWER GRAB.
BUT HOLDMAN BELIEVES IT MUST BE
CHANGE.
WHAT SENATE BILL 1 DOES IS
ALLOW FOR THE ELECTION OF THE
CHAIR OF THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION TO BE CHOSEN BY THE
MEMBERS OF THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION THEMSELVES.
I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT IT
MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE WHO THE
CHAIR IS AS LONG AS A PROCESS
AND PROCEDURE IS SPELLED OUT FOR
THAT CHAIR.
EXPECT THIS ISSUE TO BE
DEBATED SOON.
I'M ERIC WEDDLE AT THE INDIANA
STATEHOUSE
THANKS, ERIC.
BACK IN A MOMENT WITH OUR RO.
ACCUSATIONS OF BACKSTABBING,,
THE DISCLOSURE OF COMPROMISING N
AND, WELL, THE FILING OF LITIGA.
WELCOME TO EDUCATION POLICYMAKI.
AS IS NO DOUBT CLEAR BY NOW, MIT
AGREE ON MUCH OF ANYTHING.
BOTH OF THEM, HOWEVER, WOULD ACG
APPROACH TO EDUCATIONAL GOVERNAS
THAN IDEAL.
JOINING ME TO DISCUSS WHAT CAN O
IMPROVE THE SITUATION ARE FOUR N
THE PROCESS -- REPUBLICAN SENAT,
THE AUTHOR OF SENATE BILL 1, WHE
BOARD OF EDUCATION AND ITS LEAS
DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE TERRYO
SERVES AS SUPERINTENDENT OF CRON
JACKSON COUNTY, TERESA MEREDITHE
40,000-MEMBER INDIANA STATE TEAN
AND STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION MEE
DEAN OF THE SCHOOL OF EDUCATIONA
WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY.
AND I THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING
HERE FOR I THINK WHAT WILL BE A
LIVELY DISCUSSION.
GROWING UP WATCHING TV ON THE
MORNINGS ON THE WEEKENDS I'D SEE
CONJUNCTION JUNCTION,
EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMMING AT ITS
FINEST, THIS SOUNDS MORE LIKE
DYSFUNCTION JUNCTION AND I
WONDER WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT
SOLUTIONS BUT FIRST LET'S TALK
ABOUT HOW WE ARE WHERE WE ARE,
TRAVIS HOLDMAN FELL US WHY WE'RE
IN A PICKLE NOW IF INDEED IT IS
A PICKLE.
I BELIEVE IT IS A PICKLE AND
I THINK THERE'S SIGNIFICANT
DYSFUNCTION WITH WHAT'S GOING ON
WITH THE STATE BOARD AND THE
DEPARTMENT.
AND I THINK THIS HAS SORT OF
BEEN THE OUTGROWTH OF
DIFFICULTIES WE WENT THROUGH
FOUR AND FIVE YEARS AGO.
AND I SAY TO FOLKS IN MY
CONSTITUENTS AS I'VE HAD THIRD
HOUSE MEETINGS ALREADY TONY
BENNETT AND GOVERNOR MITCH
DANIELS DON'T LIVE IN THE
STATEHOUSE ANYMORE.
THEY ARE GONE.
BUT I THINK THERE WAS
SIGNIFICANT AND SUFFICIENT
DISCUSSION DURING THEIR TENURE
TO GET EDUCATION REFORM PASSED,
THAT THERE WERE THINGS THAT WERE
SAID BY THE TWO OF THEM AND
THINGS THAT WERE SAID BY
TEACHERS AND THE TEACHERS
ASSOCIATION THEMSELVES THAT HAVE
REALLY DENIGRATED EDUCATION IN
THE STATE OF INDIANA.
I HAVE A GROUP OF
SUPERINTENDENTS THAT I MEET WITH
ON AN ANNUAL BASIS AND
SUPERINTENDENT RITZ WAS THERE
JUST A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, AS I'VE
DONE WITH SHE AND WITH
DR. BENNETT.
AND WE HAD A GENTLEMAN FROM IPFW
WHO HEADS UP THE EDUCATION
PROGRAM AND HE SAID THAT THEY
HAVE 20% FEWER STUDENTS GOING
INTO EDUCATION.
AND HE SAID EVERY ONE OF THEM HE
HAS TO SPEAK WITH IF THEY CHANGE
THEIR MAJOR.
AND HE ASKED THEM WHY ARE YOU
CHANGING YOUR MAJOR FROM
EDUCATION?
HE SAID BECAUSE MY TEACHERS TELL
ME DON'T GO INTO EDUCATION, IT'S
A BIGAMIES TAKE FOR YOU TO GO --
TO BECOME A TEACHER.
I THINK THAT'S A SAD STATE FOR
THE STATE OF INDIANA.
AND I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH BLAME
TO GO AROUND ON BOTH SIDES ON
THIS ISSUE.
BUT WE HAVE GOT TO CHANGE THE
TENOR AND THE DISCUSSION THAT
WE'RE HAVING ABOUT EDUCATION IN
OUR STATE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE
CAN DO FOR KIDS TO IMPROVE
EDUCATION, WHAT WE CAN DO FOR
TEACHERS TO BE MORE SUPPORTIVE
OF TEACHERS, TO PAY THEM THE
VERY MOST THAT WE POSSIBLY CAN
FOR THE EFFECTIVE AND HIGHLY
EFFECTIVE TEACHER BECAUSE WE
HAVE GOT TO INVEST IN EDUCATION
IN THAT FASHION.
I'LL JUMP IN, I WATCHED THOSE
SATURDAY MORNING PROGRAMS AS
WELL CONJUNCTION, WATCH YOUR
FUNCTION, I THINK THAT'S WHERE
WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW, THERE'S
DEFINITELY A TURF WAR GOING ON.
WE'VEO GOTS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT
IS THE FUNCTION OF THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTION, I THINK IT'S TO TRY
TO WORK WITH PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND
OTHER SCHOOLS TO TRY TO MAKE
SURE THAT OUR STUDENTS ARE
RECEIVING THE BEST EDUCATION
POSSIBLE, IN THE ENTIRE UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA AND THE WORLD.
I GOVERNOR, I THINK, SEES IT
IT'S HIS ROLE AND HE STEPPED UP
EARLIER IN THE STATE OF THE
STATE AND SAID, HEY, THIS IS
GOING TO BE AN EDUCATION SESSION
BUT HE HASN'T PUT FORTH ANY REAL
EDUCATIONAL PROPOSALS OTHER THAN
JUST THE WORNOUT OLD PROPOSALS
THAT'S BEEN GOING AROUND
UNDER --
HE CAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF BUT
HE WOULD SAY I'M SURE TEACHER
GRANTS, PERFORMANCE GRANTS, HE
WOULD TALK ABOUT THE CHOICE
PROGRAM, THE VOUCHER PROGRAM,
EXPANSION, WHETHER YOU LOVE THEM
OR HATE THEM THEY'RE NEW
PROPOSALS.
THEY'RE NOT NEW AT ALL.
JUST NEW MONEY FOR OLD PROGRAMS.
IF WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE
STRUCTURE OF INSTRUCTION WHICH
THEY SAY THEY DO I DON'T THINK
YOU THROW NEW MONEY AT OLD
PROBLEMS AND ISSUES.
WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE
CHANGE THE SYSTEM.
CLEARLY THERE'S A
DISAGREEMENT ABOUT THE FUNCTION,
BUT WHY HASN'T IT EVER SURFACED
BEFORE.
AND SOMEONE JUST WALKS IN FROM
MARS, IT'S OBVIOUS YOU HAVE A
REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, THE ONLY
DEMOCRATIC STATE-WIDE
OFFICEHOLDER RIGHT NOW IN THE
STATEHOUSE NATURALLY THEY'RE
GOING TO HAVE FRICTION AND I
GUESS TO SOME EXTENT, YES, BUT
YOU LOOK BACK AT OTHER
GOVERNORS, OTHER ADMINISTRATIONS
WHERE SUELLEN REED FOR INSTANCE,
LONGTIME SUPERINTENDENT, THERE
DIDN'T SEEM TO BE AS MUCH
FRICTION.
IS IT THAT THE PERSONALITY, DO
YOU THINK ARE DIFFERENT OR IS IT
THAT THE STAKES ARE HIGHER?
I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF
DYNAMICS THERE.
I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
ELECTION ITSELF, PEOPLE WERE
SHOCKED THAT SUPERINTENDENT
REHABILITATION WON.
I REALLY THINK MANY OF THE KEY
LEADERS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
WERE SHOCKED, DIDN'T EXPECT
THAT.
PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN HER
NAME BUT THEY DIDN'T LIKE SOME
OF THE WAYS THAT WE HAD MOVED
TOWARD EDUCATION REFORM.
SO THAT WAS, I BELIEVE, THE
VOTERS' VOICE SCREAMING, THAT
STOP THIS, LET'S REALLY LOOK
WHAT WE NEED TO BE DOING TO HELP
STUDENTS TRULY SUCCEED AND SOME
OF THESE REFORMS ARE NOT THE WAY
TO DO IT.
SO I THINK SOME OF THE FRICTION
NOW IS THOSE FOLKS WHO HAD THIS
REFORM MOVEMENT WELL ON ITS WAY,
ROLLING DOWN THE HIGHWAY, AND IT
WAS STOPPED IN SOME RESPECTS
BRIEFLY WHEN SHE WAS ELECTED,
AND I THINK THAT CONTINUES TO BE
A RUB FOR SOME FOLKS.
LET'S SAY THIS, GENTLEMEN.
IT'S TOO COLD FOR POPULARS,
LET'S TAKE MERCURY.
LET'S TALK WARMTH.
AND REALLY, YOU POINTED THAT
OUT, THE DIFFERENCE IS THIS --
THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT
PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEFS NOW IN THE
OFFICE.
THE GOVERNOR HAS ONE
PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEF OF THE
DIRECTION EDUCATION TO GO AND
THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT
SUPERINTENDENT BENNETT AND ALSO
GOVERNOR DANIELS PUSHED AND I
THINK SUPERINTENDENT RITZ HAS
GOT A DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY OF
HOW THE EDUCATIONAL PHILOSOPHY
SHOULD GO AND I THINK THAT'S THE
TROUBLE WITH THE PROBLEM WITH
THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION AT
THIS POINT IS THOSE TWO ARE
CLASHING INSTEAD OF TRYING TO
MELD TOGETHER THEY'RE ACTUALLY
BUTTING HEADS LIKE TWO RAMS ON A
MOUNTAINTOP.
I SUSPECT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN
INDIANA IS NOT UNLIKE WYOMING
WHERE THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN AN
INHERENT STRUCTURAL FLAW BY THE
WAY THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS
FORMED.
YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR THAT'S
ELECTED AND APPOINTS THE STATE
BOARD OF EDUCATION BUT ELECTING
THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF
PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.
GOING BACK TO SOMETHING THAT WAS
SAID EARLIER, I DO THINK YOU CAN
TRACE THE DYNAMIC BACK TO THE
LAST ELECTION, BEFORE THAT IN
2010-11 WE PASSED INDIANA THE
PUTTING STUDENTS FIRST
LEGISLATIVE PACKAGE WHICH WAS
PART OF THE BENNETT-DANIELS
PACKAGE AND I THINK TERESA'S
RIGHT, I THINK A LOT OF THE
RHETORIC AT THAT TIME WAS WE HAD
BEEN STATUS QUO AND I HAPPEN TO
BELIEVE IT MYSELF BUT THE
RHETORIC IS WE HAVE KIDS TRAPPED
IN BAD SYSTEMS AND WHEN YOU
DON'T FINISH THAT THOUGHT AND
WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID IS WE
HAVE GREAT TEACHERS IN THOSE
SYSTEMS WHO ARE TRYING TO MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.
THAT JUST CONTRIBUTED TO THE
ENVIRONMENT THAT LED TO THE
ELECTION.
AND SO NOW WHAT'S GOING ON IS,
IS THAT WE HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO
HAS A VISION AND A SET OF GOALS
FOR EDUCATION AND RIGHTFULLY SO
IS TRYING TO IMPLEMENT THOSE AND
WE ALSO HAVE AN ELECTED
SUPERINTENDENT WHO HAS A
DIFFERING VISION AND GOALS AND
THAT'S WHERE THAT CONTENTION AND
DISJOINTEDNESS IS COMING FROM.
I GUESS THE OLD VICTIMS TO
THE VICTOR GO THE SPOILS, I
MEAN, DOES OR DOESN'T APPLY HERE
BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT
THE ELECTION RESULTS DID NOT
GLENDA RITZ GET MORE VOTES,
GRANTED THEY WERE IN DIFFERENT
CONTESTS BUT GOT MORE VOTES THAN
MIKE PENCE.
COULD YOU ARGUE THAT SHE SHOULD
CALL THE SHOTS?
I THINK THE CHALLENGES IN
INDIANA, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A
SHARED GOVERN NANCE SYSTEM.
THERE ARE MULTIPLE ENTITIES THAT
MAKE UP THE GOVERNANCE SYSTEM
YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR THAT
APPOINTS THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION, GENERAL ASSEMBLY
THROUGH LEGISLATION WHO ARE
ESTABLISHING PUBLIC POLICY AND
IN MANY CASES THINK DIRECT THE
STATE BOARD TO PROMULGATE RULE
AND ESTABLISH STATE RULE TO HELP
THE DEPARTMENT HOW TO ENFORCE
THOSE AND THAT'S THE FOURTH
ENTITY THE DEPARTMENT THAT THE
SUPERINTENDENT IS LEADING.
IN I SHARED GOVERNANCE SYSTEM
ANY OF THOSE ENTITIES POSTURES
ITSELF AND SAY I'M SOLELY
RESPONSIBLE FOR EDUCATION IN
INDIANA WE GET THIS
DISJOINTEDNESS.
CERTAINLY CONTRIBUTED TO THAT
WHEN HE CONTRIBUTED C.C. AND HE
CHOSE NOT TO WORK WITH THE STATE
SUPERINTENDENT AS HIS ADVISOR ON
EDUCATION ISSUES AND EVEN THOUGH
THAT IS A MOOT POINT NOW, HE
HAS -- IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING HAS
APPOINTED TWO ADDITIONAL PEOPLE
TO ADVISE HIM ON EDUCATION WHEN
HE ALREADY HAS A STATE
SUPERINTENDENT, A STAFF AND
STATE BOARD ALREADY IN PLACE.
AND SO THAT -- THAT, I THINK,
CONTINUES TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE
RUB.
AND JUST TO BACK UP ONE
MOMENT FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT NOT
UNDERSTAND THE ACRONYM THAT WAS
THE CENTER FOR EDUCATION AND
CAREER INNOVATION WHICH SOME
WOULD SAY WAS EITHER A SHADOW OF
THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION OR
OTHERS WOULD SAY WAS AN
INNOVATIVE IMPETUS FOR CHANGE AS
YOU POINT OUT IT DOESN'T EXIST
ANYMORE MORE, AS THE GOVERNOR
SAID AN OLIVE BRANCH TO BRING
ABOUT CHANGE.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE IDEAS THAT
ARE ON THE TABLE.
YOU, SENATOR, ARE THE AUTHOR OF
SENATE BILL 1 WHICH
TRADITIONALLY WHATEVER GETS THE
LABEL SENATE BILL 1 I'M NOT A
BETTING MAN USUALLY BUT I WOULD
GUESS THOSE WOULD BE PRETTY GOOD
ODDS IT'S BEEN PLACED AS A PRIME
ISSUE --
PRIORITY.
PRIORITY CERTAINLY FOR A
LEADERSHIP --
WE DO A LOT OF THINGS.
LET'S START WITH THE CHANGE IN
THE WAY THE LEADERSHIP OF THE
BOARD IS FORMED.
GLITLE WOULD NO LONGER BE
EFFECTIVELY THE HEAD OF THE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION.
IT'S POSSIBLE THAT SHE COULD
BE, IF THE MEMBERS ELECT HER.
IF THE 10 PEOPLE WHO ARE
BUTTING HEADS WITH HER INCLUDING
ONE SITTING HERE IN THE ROOM
WOULD SOMEHOW HAVE A
TRANSFORMATION.
THAT'S RIGHT.
THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE
CHAIR WOULD BE ELECTED BY THE
MEMBERS THEMSELVES.
AND THEN THERE'S A WHOLE ORDER
OF HOW YOU GET ITEMS, AGENDA
ITEMS, ON THE TABLE AND A
PROCESS TO PUT -- TO BE PUT IN
PLACE THAT'S BEEN DONE
LEGISLATIVELY RATHER THAN
ADMINISTRATIVELY WHICH SHOULD
HAVE BEEN DONE.
BUT I THINK WE ALL HAVE TO
RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S NEVER A
BILL THAT'S INTRODUCED THAT ENDS
UP BEING PASSED AND BECOMES LAW
THAT LOOKS LIKE IT DID WHEN IT
WAS INTRODUCED.
AS WE'VE TALKED IN LEADERSHIP
ABOUT WHERE WE MOVE FROM THIS
POINT, EVERYTHING'S ON THE
TABLE.
WE'RE OPEN TO HEAR SUGGESTIONS
FROM FOLKS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF
THE AISLE, FROM THE DEPARTMENT
ITSELF, FROM THE STATE BOARD,
FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, FROM
FELLOW LEGISLATORS, TO HEAR
WHAT'S THE BEST COMBINATION FOR
HOW WE GET TO WHERE WE NEED TO
BE.
WE HAVE AN INHERENTLY
DYSFUNCTIONAL SYSTEM AND IT'S
BEEN SOMEWHAT A MIRACLE THAT
WE'VE GOTTEN ALONG AS WELL AS WE
HAVE.
THERE IS NO OTHER STATE, AS
WE'VE HAD OUR POLICY PEOPLE IN
THE SENATE TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT'S
GOING ON IN THE OTHER 49 STATES,
THERE IS NOT, EXCUSE ME, ONE
OTHER STATE IN THE UNION THAT
HAS THE STRUCTURE, THE SELECTION
METHOD, LAWS SIMILAR TO WHAT
INDIANA DOES.
WE ARE VERY UNIQUE WHEN YOU LOOK
AT AN ELECTED STATE
SUPERINTENDENT, APPOINTMENTS BY
THE GOVERNOR, THE SUPERINTENDENT
AS THE BOARD CHAIR AND THE
C.E.O. OF THE DEPARTMENT, IN
PRIVATE INDUSTRY TYPICALLY THAT
WOULD NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH --
THIS NOTION THAT, HEY, 10
MEMBERS WANT TO ELECT --
IF BEAK LOOK HISTORICALLY AT
THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AND WE
TALK ABOUT THIS AND THE WAY THIS
IS STRUCTURED HISTORICALLY THE
REASON THAT THE SUPERINTENDENT
OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION WAS CHOSEN
TO BE THE HEAD OF THE CHAIR, OF
THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION THE
CHAIRPERSON, WHICHEVER TITLE YOU
WANT TO LAY ON THEM IS BECAUSE
THAT WAS A LEGISLATIVE AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES.
THAT IF, OK, IF WE HAD A
REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR AND THE
FOLKS DECIDED TO ELECT A
DEMOCRAT STATE SUPERINTENDENT
THEN THAT STATE SUPERINTENDENT
WOULDN'T BE REGULAR GATED TO
JUST DOING DESK DUTY THEY WOULD
ACTUALLY HAVE AN EXECUTIVE
POSITION THAT WOULD HELP MOLD
THE POLICY IN THE STATE OF
INDIANA.
SO THAT LEGISLATIVE INTENT WHEN
THESE -- WHEN THE BOARD WAS
CREATED ACTUALLY WAS CREATED TO
BE EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS NOW.
NOW, I DON'T THINK THEY HAD THE
IDEA THAT THE CURRENT CONDITIONS
THE WAY IT WAS GOING 20
FUNCTION -- TO FUNCTION, BUT
THAT WAS THE INTENT TO HAVE THE
SUPERINTENDENT AS THE CHAIRMAN
OF THE ASSOCIATION IF WE HAD A
DIFFERENT PARTY FOR GOVERNOR.
DEPARTING FROM WHAT THE
ORIGINAL INTENT WAS OR THE
AGREEMENT THAT WAS STRUCK
BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES OR IS
THERE A PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEM
LETTING THE MAJORITY OF THE
BOARD CHOOSE THEIR
SUPERINTENDENT.
I'M PRAGMATIC, IF IT'S NOT
WORKING, WE'VE GOT TO FIX IT.
AS SENATOR HOLDMAN SAID THERE'S
GOING TO BE A LOT OF TIME TO BE
ABLE TO DEBATE SENATE BILL 1 AS
IT MOVES THROUGH THE PROCESS AND
I DON'T THINK IT WILL LOOK LIKE
IT DOES NOW.
I SURE HOPE IT DOESN'T AS IT
GOES THROUGH THE PROCESS AND I'M
AWAITING THE OPPORTUNITY WHEN
THAT BILL GETS TO THE HOUSE TO
DO CRAFTSMANSHIP TO IT AS WELL.
WHEN THAT BILL MOVES FORWARD
THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF
SUGGESTIONS AS THIS BILL MOVES
FORWARD AND A LOT OF FOLKS GOING
TO GET THEIR FEELINGS HURT
BECAUSE --
TERESA.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE
CAREFUL IN THE LEGISLATURE IN
THAT THE VOTERS ELECTED HER TO
DO A CERTAIN JOB AND THE JOB
THEY ELECTED HER TO DO INCLUDED
LEADING THAT EDUCATION BOARD.
AND SO TO TAKE THAT ROLE AWAY
MIDSTREAM HERE I THINK IS A
BIGAMIES TAKE.
LEADERSHIP OF THE BOARD OR
THE POLICY-MAKING FUNCTION HAS
BECOME THE CRITICAL -- INDIANA
AND OTHER STATES --
JON, AS WE TALKED ABOUT,
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE
LEGISLATIVE INTENT AS WE MOVE
FORWARD -- YOU KNOW, THE
PROPOSAL, AS I SAID, MAY NOT BE
THE SAME -- THERE MIGHT BE
PROPOSALS INTRODUCED THAT LIMITS
THE GOVERNOR'S ABILITY TO TRY TO
INFLUENCE EDUCATION SO THAT'S
GOING TO BE THE GIVE AND TAKE ON
THIS, IT'S NOT JUST GOING TO BE
FOCUSED ON THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.
I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT
HAVING BEEN THE C.E.O. OF A
CORPORATION MYSELF FOR 10 YEARS
AND HAVING THE BLUR OF DIRECTORS
WITH A DIFFERENT BOARD CHAIR, IT
DIDN'T REALLY MATTER WHO THE
CHAIRMAN OF THAT BOARD IS.
IF THERE ARE POLICIES LAID OUT
AS TO HOW ITEMS ARE PLACED ON
THE AGENDA, THE C.E.O -- I WAS
THE AUTHORITY ON BANKING AT MY
300 MILLION-DOLLAR BANK BACK
HOME.
BOARD CHAIRMAN WORKED WITH ME
BUT BOARD CHAIRMEN DIRECTED THE
MEETINGS, BUT WHEN THEY LOOKED
AT THE AUTHORITY FOR THE EXPERT
ON BANKING LAW AND THE BANKING
PRACTICE THEY ASKED ME HOW THAT
WAS DONE.
THE C.E.O. OF YOUR BOARD
WASN'T ELECTED, HE WAS CHOSEN.
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
MY HOPE IS THAT THE GENERAL
ASSEMBLY WILL TAKE A LOOK AT
THAT STRUCTURE.
WHEN YOU'VE HAD AS MANY REFORMS
AS WE'VE HAD AND IN A SHORT
PERIOD OF TIME THINGS CAN BECOME
VERY DISJOINTED, VERY
CONTENTIOUS, AND WHAT'S
INCUMBENT ON THE GENERAL
ASSEMBLY IS NOT JUST LOOK AT WHO
CHAIRS THE STATE BOARD BUT LOOK
AT THE STRUCTURE AND MAKE SURE
WE HAVE THE RIGHT STRUCTURE
SUPPORTED.
I CAN TELL YOU WHAT CONCERNS ME
MOST IS THE IMPACT TO THE LOCAL
SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND TO OUR
STUDENTS.
WHEN THINGS ARE DISJOINTED AND
SO CONTENTIOUS AT THIS LEVEL, AT
THE STATE LEVEL IT TENDS TO SLOW
DOWN IMPORTANT REFORMS TRYING TO
BE IMPLEMENTED IN THE FIELD, IT
CREATES CONFUSION AND WE'VE GOT
TO ADDRESS THAT AND CLEAN THAT
UP.
IT'S NOT FAIR TO LOCAL DISTRICTS
TO LEAVE THEM HANGING WHERE
WE'RE AT AND I THINK EVERYBODY'S
IN AGREEMENT ON THAT BUT IT'S
GOING TO COME BACK TO THE
GENERAL ASSEMBLY.
ONLY THEY CAN TAKE THE KIND OF
LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY THAT'S
NEEDED TO SET THAT STRUCTURE
AND --
AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF
STUDENTS ARE TRULY AT THE CENTER
OF EVERYTHING WE DO WE ALL NEED
TO DO IS THE MONEY TRAIL LEADING
BACK TO SOMETHING THAT TRULY IS
PURE IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING
STUDENTS OR LEADING BACK TO SOME
FOR-PROFIT OR SOMEONE WHO IS
GOING TO LINE THEIR POCKET WITH
SOME REFORM THAT INDIANA PUSHES
THROUGH THAT CREATES A FINANCIAL
BOON FOR THEM.
LOOK AT THE TESTING.
LOOK AT THE EXPENSE THAT'S IN
THAT.
SO -- AND THAT'S ALL STUFF
THAT'S TALKED ABOUT WITH THESE
EDUCATION ENTITIES.
BRAD ALSO BROUGHT UP NOT ONLY
IS IT THE LEADERSHIP BUT THE
STRUCTURE.
RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE THE 10
MEMBERS ASIDE FROM THE STATE
SUPERINTENDENT OSTENSIBLY
REPRESENTING CONGRESSIONAL
DISTRICTS, AT LEAST FOUR, I
BELIEVE, AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE NO
MORE THAN SIX OF ANY ONE PARTY
WHICH, I GUESS, PARTY
AFFILIATION IS IN THE EYE OF THE
BEHOLDER IN MANY CASES WHETHER
THAT'S ACTUALLY A SPLIT OR NOT,
HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT, IF THE
LEADERSHIP QUESTION IS RESOLVED
IS THIS OTHER STUFF SORT OF
SECONDARY FARCE YOUR CONCERNED,
IT'S NOT A PART OF YOUR BILL
BUT --
I DON'T THINK IT'S
NECESSARILY SECONDARY.
THAT'S ONE THING THAT NEEDS TO
BE CLEANED UP IN THE BILL, TO BE
HONEST WITH YOU, I THINK THAT
SELECTION PROCESS, HOW THAT'S
DONE, I THINK IT'S VERY
IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE
EDUCATORS, FOLKS WITH END ON THE
BOARD AND -- END ON THE BOARD
AND I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE
SOME REQUIREMENT THAT THOSE BE
THERE.
WHEN WE GET TO THESE KIND OF
ISSUES SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T
MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE ON THE
RIGHT SIDE OF THIS ISSUE OR THE
LEFT SIDE OF THIS ISSUE BECAUSE
I THINK EDUCATION SHOULD RULE IN
WHAT'S BEST FOR OUR KIDS AND HOW
WE BRING THOSE SIDES TOGETHER TO
TALK ABOUT THAT.
BUT THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT YOU
JUST SAID, TO THE VERY POINT
THAT ALL OF THIS RHETORIC THAT
WE'VE GONE THROUGH FOR THE LAST
FOUR YEARS HAS BEEN SO
DETRIMENTAL TO WHAT WE'RE TRYING
TO DO THAT WE HAVE GOT TO SEE
SOME CHANGE AND I DON'T THINK
THERE'S ANYBODY WHO WOULDN'T SAY
THIS IS DYSFUNCTIONAL, IT HAS
GOT TO BE FIXED.
THE LEGISLATURE HAS A STAKE IN
WHAT'S GOING ON WHEN WE
CONTRIBUTE MORE THAN $15 BILLION
OUT OF A BIENNIAL BUDGET TOWARDS
EDUCATION THROUGH K12 EDUCATION,
WE ARE A STAKEHOLDER AND WE HAVE
A RIGHT AND AN OBLIGATION TO
MAKE SURE THAT IT WORKS.
AND I AGREE AND I THINK WE'VE
GOT TO DO THIS, TOO.
WHEN WE MOVE FORWARD AND WHEN WE
TALK ABOUT REFORM WE CAN'T LEAVE
OUT PARENTS, OBVIOUSLY,
GUARDIANS, WE -- NEITHER CAN WE
LEAVE OUT TEACHERS.
THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE IN THE
CLASSROOM.
I THINK WE TALK ABOUT THE -- THE
ECOLOGIST SAYING THAT THE
ENROLLMENT IN THOSE EDUCATION
COURSES ARE DOWN, NOBODY WANTS
TO BE A TEACHER ANYMORE, IS THE
OLD TERM THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING
NOW, I THINK THERE'S A REASON
FOR THAT, IT'S BECAUSE THE
MORALE IS LOW.
I FEEL ANYBODY WHO HAS A LITTLE
BIT OF A TEACHER IN THEM ANYTIME
THAT SUPERINTENDENT RITZ IS
ATTACKED THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE
BEING ATTACKED AS WELL.
SO I THINK TEACHERS, THEY HAVE
THAT PERSONAL FEELING WITH, A
CONNECTION WITH ANOTHER TEACHER
THAT, HEY, IF YOU'RE ATTACKING
GLENDA RITZ, YOU'RE ATTACKING
ME.
VERY QUICK LAST WORD BECAUSE
THIS IS A THREE-HOUR COURSE AND
I JUST TRIED TO JAM IT IN.
I THINK WE HAVE TO HOPE THAT
COMES OUT OF THIS SESSION IS
CLARITY AROUND ROLES AND
RESPONSIBILITIES AND CERTAINLY
ACCOUNTABILITY INSIDE OF OUR
GOVERNANCE SYSTEM, WITHOUT A
CLEAR STRUCTURE I THINK IT WILL
CONTINUE TO LINGER AND I HOPE
THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
EDUCATION SUPPORTED, STUDENT
CENTERED.
BY MEDICAL IS RINGING I HEAR
IT, WE'VE GOT TO GO.
ALWAYS LUNCHTIME FOR ME.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE
AGAIN, MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN RS
HOLDMAN OF MARKLE, DEMOCRATIC RF
AUSTIN, TERESA MEREDITH OF THE S
ASSOCIATION, AND BRAD OLIVER OF.
WINE IS FINE, LIQUOR IS QUICR
ON SUNDAY -- YET.
ON THE NEXT "INDIANA LAWMAKERS."
TIME NOW FOR OUR WEEKLY CONV,
PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER "IND
ITS SISTER PUBLICATION, "INDIAN"
HOW MUCH OF THIS IS GOOD
OLD-FASHIONED PARTISAN POLITICS?
A LOT OF IS INVOLVED IN
PARTISAN POLITICS AND
PERSONALITIES BUT IT GOES BACK
TO CLASS BASKETBALL, WHEN WE
CHANGED TO CLASS BASKETBALL THAT
RUINED --
WISE WORDS, I KNEW IT WAS
GOING TO COME BACK TO HAUNT.
IS THIS AN R&D THING OR MUCH
BROADER?
I THINK IT'S BROADER.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THINGS IN
GENERAL, DEMOCRACY ISN'T PRETTY
AND WE'VE GOTTEN ALONG IN STATE
GOVERNMENT WITH EXECUTIVE BORN
AGENCIES AND EXECUTIVE BRANCH
OFFICERS AND GOVERNORS BEING OF
DIFFERENT PARTIES, YOU KNOW,
YOU'VE GOT A GOVERNOR OF ONE
PARTY, AN ATTORNEY GENERAL OF
ANOTHER PARTY.
THAT'S PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.
AND THEY SEEMED TO HAVE GOTTEN
ALONG TOGETHER BACK IN THE BAYH
AND PEARCESON DAYS THAT WE USED
TO COVER AND GOING BACK THEN YOU
HAD EVAN BAYH AND DEAN EVANS,
DIFFERENT PARTIES, THE
SUPERINTENDENT AND GOVERNOR OF
DIFFERENT PARTIES, YOU HAD
SUELLEN REED, A SUPERINTENDENT
WHO WAS REPUBLICAN WHO RAN
AGAINST EVAN BAYH'S HAND-PICKED
CANDIDATE FOR SUPERINTENDENT,
THEY GOT ALONG.
SO TO A CERTAIN EXTENT A LOT OF
THIS DISCUSSION WOULDN'T BE
HAPPENING IF TONY BENNETT WERE
STILL SUPERINTENDENT.
BUT THERE'S MORE TO IT.
THE FACT THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT,
FOR EXAMPLE, LEGISLATIVE
INTERVENTION IN THIS,
LEGISLATIVE APPOINTMENTS IN THIS
PROCESS, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT
MORE TO IT AND THAT'S GOING TO
BE VERY INTERESTING.
I THINK THAT'S MAYBE THE REAL
UNDERSTATED KIND OF ISSUE FROM
ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION THAT
WE'VE REALLY NOT TOUCHED ON AND
THAT'S TO WHAT EXTENT THE
LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE INVOLVED
IN GOING BEYOND JUST SETTING THE
POLICY THAT THEY'VE SET AND
BEING ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN
PICKING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING
TO IMPLEMENT THAT POLICY.
AND YOU THINK THAT WILL PLAY
WELL IN THE END OR DO YOU THINK
THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE
PEOPLE, HEY, IF THIS WERE A
PLAYGROUND WE'D TELL THEM TO
WORK IT OUT.
GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE
LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO ANSWER
WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO DO
SOMETHING I'M NOT SURE THAT'S
EASY TO ANSWER.
ANOTHER THING THEY'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO LOOK AT IS CHANGING
POLICY.
AND ONE OF THOSE POLICY
DETERMINATIONS THEY'VE MADE IS
WE HAVE REPRESENTATIONS ON THE
BOARD FROM CERTAIN TYPES OF
GROUPS AND FROM CERTAIN
GEOGRAPHIC AREAS.
WE'D BE DOING AWAY WITH -- I
THINK SENATOR HOLDMAN INDICATED,
WELL, THAT'S STILL KIND OF UP IN
THE AIR AS TO WHETHER WE'D HAVE
TO HAVE EDUCATORS ON THERE BUT
WE'D BE DOING AWAY WITH
REPRESENTATION BY CONGRESSIONAL
DISTRICT AND CLEARLY WHETHER
YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE
APPOINTED BY A GOVERNOR WHO
WOULD KNOW EVERYTHING GOING ON
IN MEDORA, ROME OR OTHER SMALL
TOWNS AROUND THE THE STATE WHERE
THEY'RE KIND OF REQUIRED TO
RIGHT NOW WITH THAT DISTRICT
REPRESENTATION.
INTERESTING TOPIC, EDUCATION
ALWAYS IS, ED, THANK YOU FOR
YOUR INSIGHT, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT
WEEK.
FOR MORE INFORMATION, EPISODE
STREAMS AND EXTRA CONTENT VISIT
US ON THE WEB AT
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