PERHAPS THE FIERCEST POLITICR

WAS WAGED BY TWO ELECTED OFFICIE

BALLOT IN 2014 -- REPUBLICAN GOD

DEMOCRATIC SUPERINTENDENT OF PU.

BOTH TOOK OFFICE IN JANUARY 201,

THEY'VE BEEN VYING FOR CONTROL N

THE STATE.

NOW THEIR FIGHT IS MOVING TO TH.

HI, I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND ON TA

LAWMAKERS," WE'LL TAKE IN-DEPTHE

BATTLE FOR THE FUTURE OF INDIAN.

BATTLE FOR THE FUTURE OF

INDIANA'S SCHOOLS.

HERE WITH A PRIMER ON THE ISSUE

IS ERIC WEDDLE, EDUCATION

REPORTER FOR WFYI PUBLIC MEDIA.

LET'S GO ON WITH THE APPROVAL

OF THE MINUTES, PLEASE.

NO, I DON'T THINK WE NEED --

I THINK WE NEED TO FOLLOW OUR

PROCEDURES.

OUR MEETING PROCEDURES.

YOUR RULING HAS BEEN APPEALED.

ASK FOR THE RULING OF THE

CHAIR.

NOT A RULING THAT'S BEEN

APPEALED.

GLENDA RITZ CLASHED OVER

BOARD GOVERNANCE ALMOST OVER THE

START.

NUMEROUS BILLS SEEMED TO CHANGE

HOW THE SUPERINTENDENT IS CHOSEN

AND HOW THE BOARD OF EDUCATION.

A BILL BY.

LET'S ASSUME THAT

SUPERINTENDENT RITZ IS REELECTED

FOR ANOTHER FOUR-YEAR TERM, WE

CAN'T CONTINUE THIS DYSFUNCTION

IN SIX YEARS.

BUT NOT EVERYONE AGREES

WITHHOLDMAN.

SOME DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS ARE

OPPOSED TO ANY CHANGES THAT

WOULD ALTER RITZ'S CURRENT

RESPONSIBILITY.

DANIEL OLDMAN CALLED IT A

POLITICAL POWER GRAB.

BUT HOLDMAN BELIEVES IT MUST BE

CHANGE.

WHAT SENATE BILL 1 DOES IS

ALLOW FOR THE ELECTION OF THE

CHAIR OF THE STATE BOARD OF

EDUCATION TO BE CHOSEN BY THE

MEMBERS OF THE STATE BOARD OF

EDUCATION THEMSELVES.

I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT IT

MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE WHO THE

CHAIR IS AS LONG AS A PROCESS

AND PROCEDURE IS SPELLED OUT FOR

THAT CHAIR.

EXPECT THIS ISSUE TO BE

DEBATED SOON.

I'M ERIC WEDDLE AT THE INDIANA

STATEHOUSE

THANKS, ERIC.

BACK IN A MOMENT WITH OUR RO.

ACCUSATIONS OF BACKSTABBING,,

THE DISCLOSURE OF COMPROMISING N

AND, WELL, THE FILING OF LITIGA.

WELCOME TO EDUCATION POLICYMAKI.

AS IS NO DOUBT CLEAR BY NOW, MIT

AGREE ON MUCH OF ANYTHING.

BOTH OF THEM, HOWEVER, WOULD ACG

APPROACH TO EDUCATIONAL GOVERNAS

THAN IDEAL.

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS WHAT CAN O

IMPROVE THE SITUATION ARE FOUR N

THE PROCESS -- REPUBLICAN SENAT,

THE AUTHOR OF SENATE BILL 1, WHE

BOARD OF EDUCATION AND ITS LEAS

DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE TERRYO

SERVES AS SUPERINTENDENT OF CRON

JACKSON COUNTY, TERESA MEREDITHE

40,000-MEMBER INDIANA STATE TEAN

AND STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION MEE

DEAN OF THE SCHOOL OF EDUCATIONA

WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY.

AND I THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING

HERE FOR I THINK WHAT WILL BE A

LIVELY DISCUSSION.

GROWING UP WATCHING TV ON THE

MORNINGS ON THE WEEKENDS I'D SEE

CONJUNCTION JUNCTION,

EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMMING AT ITS

FINEST, THIS SOUNDS MORE LIKE

DYSFUNCTION JUNCTION AND I

WONDER WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT

SOLUTIONS BUT FIRST LET'S TALK

ABOUT HOW WE ARE WHERE WE ARE,

TRAVIS HOLDMAN FELL US WHY WE'RE

IN A PICKLE NOW IF INDEED IT IS

A PICKLE.

I BELIEVE IT IS A PICKLE AND

I THINK THERE'S SIGNIFICANT

DYSFUNCTION WITH WHAT'S GOING ON

WITH THE STATE BOARD AND THE

DEPARTMENT.

AND I THINK THIS HAS SORT OF

BEEN THE OUTGROWTH OF

DIFFICULTIES WE WENT THROUGH

FOUR AND FIVE YEARS AGO.

AND I SAY TO FOLKS IN MY

CONSTITUENTS AS I'VE HAD THIRD

HOUSE MEETINGS ALREADY TONY

BENNETT AND GOVERNOR MITCH

DANIELS DON'T LIVE IN THE

STATEHOUSE ANYMORE.

THEY ARE GONE.

BUT I THINK THERE WAS

SIGNIFICANT AND SUFFICIENT

DISCUSSION DURING THEIR TENURE

TO GET EDUCATION REFORM PASSED,

THAT THERE WERE THINGS THAT WERE

SAID BY THE TWO OF THEM AND

THINGS THAT WERE SAID BY

TEACHERS AND THE TEACHERS

ASSOCIATION THEMSELVES THAT HAVE

REALLY DENIGRATED EDUCATION IN

THE STATE OF INDIANA.

I HAVE A GROUP OF

SUPERINTENDENTS THAT I MEET WITH

ON AN ANNUAL BASIS AND

SUPERINTENDENT RITZ WAS THERE

JUST A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, AS I'VE

DONE WITH SHE AND WITH

DR. BENNETT.

AND WE HAD A GENTLEMAN FROM IPFW

WHO HEADS UP THE EDUCATION

PROGRAM AND HE SAID THAT THEY

HAVE 20% FEWER STUDENTS GOING

INTO EDUCATION.

AND HE SAID EVERY ONE OF THEM HE

HAS TO SPEAK WITH IF THEY CHANGE

THEIR MAJOR.

AND HE ASKED THEM WHY ARE YOU

CHANGING YOUR MAJOR FROM

EDUCATION?

HE SAID BECAUSE MY TEACHERS TELL

ME DON'T GO INTO EDUCATION, IT'S

A BIGAMIES TAKE FOR YOU TO GO --

TO BECOME A TEACHER.

I THINK THAT'S A SAD STATE FOR

THE STATE OF INDIANA.

AND I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH BLAME

TO GO AROUND ON BOTH SIDES ON

THIS ISSUE.

BUT WE HAVE GOT TO CHANGE THE

TENOR AND THE DISCUSSION THAT

WE'RE HAVING ABOUT EDUCATION IN

OUR STATE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE

CAN DO FOR KIDS TO IMPROVE

EDUCATION, WHAT WE CAN DO FOR

TEACHERS TO BE MORE SUPPORTIVE

OF TEACHERS, TO PAY THEM THE

VERY MOST THAT WE POSSIBLY CAN

FOR THE EFFECTIVE AND HIGHLY

EFFECTIVE TEACHER BECAUSE WE

HAVE GOT TO INVEST IN EDUCATION

IN THAT FASHION.

I'LL JUMP IN, I WATCHED THOSE

SATURDAY MORNING PROGRAMS AS

WELL CONJUNCTION, WATCH YOUR

FUNCTION, I THINK THAT'S WHERE

WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW, THERE'S

DEFINITELY A TURF WAR GOING ON.

WE'VEO GOTS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT

IS THE FUNCTION OF THE

SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC

INSTRUCTION, I THINK IT'S TO TRY

TO WORK WITH PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND

OTHER SCHOOLS TO TRY TO MAKE

SURE THAT OUR STUDENTS ARE

RECEIVING THE BEST EDUCATION

POSSIBLE, IN THE ENTIRE UNITED

STATES OF AMERICA AND THE WORLD.

I GOVERNOR, I THINK, SEES IT

IT'S HIS ROLE AND HE STEPPED UP

EARLIER IN THE STATE OF THE

STATE AND SAID, HEY, THIS IS

GOING TO BE AN EDUCATION SESSION

BUT HE HASN'T PUT FORTH ANY REAL

EDUCATIONAL PROPOSALS OTHER THAN

JUST THE WORNOUT OLD PROPOSALS

THAT'S BEEN GOING AROUND

UNDER --

HE CAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF BUT

HE WOULD SAY I'M SURE TEACHER

GRANTS, PERFORMANCE GRANTS, HE

WOULD TALK ABOUT THE CHOICE

PROGRAM, THE VOUCHER PROGRAM,

EXPANSION, WHETHER YOU LOVE THEM

OR HATE THEM THEY'RE NEW

PROPOSALS.

THEY'RE NOT NEW AT ALL.

JUST NEW MONEY FOR OLD PROGRAMS.

IF WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE

STRUCTURE OF INSTRUCTION WHICH

THEY SAY THEY DO I DON'T THINK

YOU THROW NEW MONEY AT OLD

PROBLEMS AND ISSUES.

WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE

CHANGE THE SYSTEM.

CLEARLY THERE'S A

DISAGREEMENT ABOUT THE FUNCTION,

BUT WHY HASN'T IT EVER SURFACED

BEFORE.

AND SOMEONE JUST WALKS IN FROM

MARS, IT'S OBVIOUS YOU HAVE A

REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, THE ONLY

DEMOCRATIC STATE-WIDE

OFFICEHOLDER RIGHT NOW IN THE

STATEHOUSE NATURALLY THEY'RE

GOING TO HAVE FRICTION AND I

GUESS TO SOME EXTENT, YES, BUT

YOU LOOK BACK AT OTHER

GOVERNORS, OTHER ADMINISTRATIONS

WHERE SUELLEN REED FOR INSTANCE,

LONGTIME SUPERINTENDENT, THERE

DIDN'T SEEM TO BE AS MUCH

FRICTION.

IS IT THAT THE PERSONALITY, DO

YOU THINK ARE DIFFERENT OR IS IT

THAT THE STAKES ARE HIGHER?

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF

DYNAMICS THERE.

I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE

ELECTION ITSELF, PEOPLE WERE

SHOCKED THAT SUPERINTENDENT

REHABILITATION WON.

I REALLY THINK MANY OF THE KEY

LEADERS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY

WERE SHOCKED, DIDN'T EXPECT

THAT.

PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN HER

NAME BUT THEY DIDN'T LIKE SOME

OF THE WAYS THAT WE HAD MOVED

TOWARD EDUCATION REFORM.

SO THAT WAS, I BELIEVE, THE

VOTERS' VOICE SCREAMING, THAT

STOP THIS, LET'S REALLY LOOK

WHAT WE NEED TO BE DOING TO HELP

STUDENTS TRULY SUCCEED AND SOME

OF THESE REFORMS ARE NOT THE WAY

TO DO IT.

SO I THINK SOME OF THE FRICTION

NOW IS THOSE FOLKS WHO HAD THIS

REFORM MOVEMENT WELL ON ITS WAY,

ROLLING DOWN THE HIGHWAY, AND IT

WAS STOPPED IN SOME RESPECTS

BRIEFLY WHEN SHE WAS ELECTED,

AND I THINK THAT CONTINUES TO BE

A RUB FOR SOME FOLKS.

LET'S SAY THIS, GENTLEMEN.

IT'S TOO COLD FOR POPULARS,

LET'S TAKE MERCURY.

LET'S TALK WARMTH.

AND REALLY, YOU POINTED THAT

OUT, THE DIFFERENCE IS THIS --

THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT

PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEFS NOW IN THE

OFFICE.

THE GOVERNOR HAS ONE

PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEF OF THE

DIRECTION EDUCATION TO GO AND

THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT

SUPERINTENDENT BENNETT AND ALSO

GOVERNOR DANIELS PUSHED AND I

THINK SUPERINTENDENT RITZ HAS

GOT A DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY OF

HOW THE EDUCATIONAL PHILOSOPHY

SHOULD GO AND I THINK THAT'S THE

TROUBLE WITH THE PROBLEM WITH

THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION AT

THIS POINT IS THOSE TWO ARE

CLASHING INSTEAD OF TRYING TO

MELD TOGETHER THEY'RE ACTUALLY

BUTTING HEADS LIKE TWO RAMS ON A

MOUNTAINTOP.

I SUSPECT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN

INDIANA IS NOT UNLIKE WYOMING

WHERE THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN AN

INHERENT STRUCTURAL FLAW BY THE

WAY THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS

FORMED.

YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR THAT'S

ELECTED AND APPOINTS THE STATE

BOARD OF EDUCATION BUT ELECTING

THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF

PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.

GOING BACK TO SOMETHING THAT WAS

SAID EARLIER, I DO THINK YOU CAN

TRACE THE DYNAMIC BACK TO THE

LAST ELECTION, BEFORE THAT IN

2010-11 WE PASSED INDIANA THE

PUTTING STUDENTS FIRST

LEGISLATIVE PACKAGE WHICH WAS

PART OF THE BENNETT-DANIELS

PACKAGE AND I THINK TERESA'S

RIGHT, I THINK A LOT OF THE

RHETORIC AT THAT TIME WAS WE HAD

BEEN STATUS QUO AND I HAPPEN TO

BELIEVE IT MYSELF BUT THE

RHETORIC IS WE HAVE KIDS TRAPPED

IN BAD SYSTEMS AND WHEN YOU

DON'T FINISH THAT THOUGHT AND

WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID IS WE

HAVE GREAT TEACHERS IN THOSE

SYSTEMS WHO ARE TRYING TO MAKE A

DIFFERENCE.

THAT JUST CONTRIBUTED TO THE

ENVIRONMENT THAT LED TO THE

ELECTION.

AND SO NOW WHAT'S GOING ON IS,

IS THAT WE HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO

HAS A VISION AND A SET OF GOALS

FOR EDUCATION AND RIGHTFULLY SO

IS TRYING TO IMPLEMENT THOSE AND

WE ALSO HAVE AN ELECTED

SUPERINTENDENT WHO HAS A

DIFFERING VISION AND GOALS AND

THAT'S WHERE THAT CONTENTION AND

DISJOINTEDNESS IS COMING FROM.

I GUESS THE OLD VICTIMS TO

THE VICTOR GO THE SPOILS, I

MEAN, DOES OR DOESN'T APPLY HERE

BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT

THE ELECTION RESULTS DID NOT

GLENDA RITZ GET MORE VOTES,

GRANTED THEY WERE IN DIFFERENT

CONTESTS BUT GOT MORE VOTES THAN

MIKE PENCE.

COULD YOU ARGUE THAT SHE SHOULD

CALL THE SHOTS?

I THINK THE CHALLENGES IN

INDIANA, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A

SHARED GOVERN NANCE SYSTEM.

THERE ARE MULTIPLE ENTITIES THAT

MAKE UP THE GOVERNANCE SYSTEM

YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR THAT

APPOINTS THE STATE BOARD OF

EDUCATION, GENERAL ASSEMBLY

THROUGH LEGISLATION WHO ARE

ESTABLISHING PUBLIC POLICY AND

IN MANY CASES THINK DIRECT THE

STATE BOARD TO PROMULGATE RULE

AND ESTABLISH STATE RULE TO HELP

THE DEPARTMENT HOW TO ENFORCE

THOSE AND THAT'S THE FOURTH

ENTITY THE DEPARTMENT THAT THE

SUPERINTENDENT IS LEADING.

IN I SHARED GOVERNANCE SYSTEM

ANY OF THOSE ENTITIES POSTURES

ITSELF AND SAY I'M SOLELY

RESPONSIBLE FOR EDUCATION IN

INDIANA WE GET THIS

DISJOINTEDNESS.

CERTAINLY CONTRIBUTED TO THAT

WHEN HE CONTRIBUTED C.C. AND HE

CHOSE NOT TO WORK WITH THE STATE

SUPERINTENDENT AS HIS ADVISOR ON

EDUCATION ISSUES AND EVEN THOUGH

THAT IS A MOOT POINT NOW, HE

HAS -- IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING HAS

APPOINTED TWO ADDITIONAL PEOPLE

TO ADVISE HIM ON EDUCATION WHEN

HE ALREADY HAS A STATE

SUPERINTENDENT, A STAFF AND

STATE BOARD ALREADY IN PLACE.

AND SO THAT -- THAT, I THINK,

CONTINUES TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE

RUB.

AND JUST TO BACK UP ONE

MOMENT FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT NOT

UNDERSTAND THE ACRONYM THAT WAS

THE CENTER FOR EDUCATION AND

CAREER INNOVATION WHICH SOME

WOULD SAY WAS EITHER A SHADOW OF

THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION OR

OTHERS WOULD SAY WAS AN

INNOVATIVE IMPETUS FOR CHANGE AS

YOU POINT OUT IT DOESN'T EXIST

ANYMORE MORE, AS THE GOVERNOR

SAID AN OLIVE BRANCH TO BRING

ABOUT CHANGE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE IDEAS THAT

ARE ON THE TABLE.

YOU, SENATOR, ARE THE AUTHOR OF

SENATE BILL 1 WHICH

TRADITIONALLY WHATEVER GETS THE

LABEL SENATE BILL 1 I'M NOT A

BETTING MAN USUALLY BUT I WOULD

GUESS THOSE WOULD BE PRETTY GOOD

ODDS IT'S BEEN PLACED AS A PRIME

ISSUE --

PRIORITY.

PRIORITY CERTAINLY FOR A

LEADERSHIP --

WE DO A LOT OF THINGS.

LET'S START WITH THE CHANGE IN

THE WAY THE LEADERSHIP OF THE

BOARD IS FORMED.

GLITLE WOULD NO LONGER BE

EFFECTIVELY THE HEAD OF THE

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION.

IT'S POSSIBLE THAT SHE COULD

BE, IF THE MEMBERS ELECT HER.

IF THE 10 PEOPLE WHO ARE

BUTTING HEADS WITH HER INCLUDING

ONE SITTING HERE IN THE ROOM

WOULD SOMEHOW HAVE A

TRANSFORMATION.

THAT'S RIGHT.

THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE

CHAIR WOULD BE ELECTED BY THE

MEMBERS THEMSELVES.

AND THEN THERE'S A WHOLE ORDER

OF HOW YOU GET ITEMS, AGENDA

ITEMS, ON THE TABLE AND A

PROCESS TO PUT -- TO BE PUT IN

PLACE THAT'S BEEN DONE

LEGISLATIVELY RATHER THAN

ADMINISTRATIVELY WHICH SHOULD

HAVE BEEN DONE.

BUT I THINK WE ALL HAVE TO

RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S NEVER A

BILL THAT'S INTRODUCED THAT ENDS

UP BEING PASSED AND BECOMES LAW

THAT LOOKS LIKE IT DID WHEN IT

WAS INTRODUCED.

AS WE'VE TALKED IN LEADERSHIP

ABOUT WHERE WE MOVE FROM THIS

POINT, EVERYTHING'S ON THE

TABLE.

WE'RE OPEN TO HEAR SUGGESTIONS

FROM FOLKS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF

THE AISLE, FROM THE DEPARTMENT

ITSELF, FROM THE STATE BOARD,

FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, FROM

FELLOW LEGISLATORS, TO HEAR

WHAT'S THE BEST COMBINATION FOR

HOW WE GET TO WHERE WE NEED TO

BE.

WE HAVE AN INHERENTLY

DYSFUNCTIONAL SYSTEM AND IT'S

BEEN SOMEWHAT A MIRACLE THAT

WE'VE GOTTEN ALONG AS WELL AS WE

HAVE.

THERE IS NO OTHER STATE, AS

WE'VE HAD OUR POLICY PEOPLE IN

THE SENATE TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT'S

GOING ON IN THE OTHER 49 STATES,

THERE IS NOT, EXCUSE ME, ONE

OTHER STATE IN THE UNION THAT

HAS THE STRUCTURE, THE SELECTION

METHOD, LAWS SIMILAR TO WHAT

INDIANA DOES.

WE ARE VERY UNIQUE WHEN YOU LOOK

AT AN ELECTED STATE

SUPERINTENDENT, APPOINTMENTS BY

THE GOVERNOR, THE SUPERINTENDENT

AS THE BOARD CHAIR AND THE

C.E.O. OF THE DEPARTMENT, IN

PRIVATE INDUSTRY TYPICALLY THAT

WOULD NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH --

THIS NOTION THAT, HEY, 10

MEMBERS WANT TO ELECT --

IF BEAK LOOK HISTORICALLY AT

THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AND WE

TALK ABOUT THIS AND THE WAY THIS

IS STRUCTURED HISTORICALLY THE

REASON THAT THE SUPERINTENDENT

OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION WAS CHOSEN

TO BE THE HEAD OF THE CHAIR, OF

THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION THE

CHAIRPERSON, WHICHEVER TITLE YOU

WANT TO LAY ON THEM IS BECAUSE

THAT WAS A LEGISLATIVE AGREEMENT

BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES.

THAT IF, OK, IF WE HAD A

REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR AND THE

FOLKS DECIDED TO ELECT A

DEMOCRAT STATE SUPERINTENDENT

THEN THAT STATE SUPERINTENDENT

WOULDN'T BE REGULAR GATED TO

JUST DOING DESK DUTY THEY WOULD

ACTUALLY HAVE AN EXECUTIVE

POSITION THAT WOULD HELP MOLD

THE POLICY IN THE STATE OF

INDIANA.

SO THAT LEGISLATIVE INTENT WHEN

THESE -- WHEN THE BOARD WAS

CREATED ACTUALLY WAS CREATED TO

BE EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS NOW.

NOW, I DON'T THINK THEY HAD THE

IDEA THAT THE CURRENT CONDITIONS

THE WAY IT WAS GOING 20

FUNCTION -- TO FUNCTION, BUT

THAT WAS THE INTENT TO HAVE THE

SUPERINTENDENT AS THE CHAIRMAN

OF THE ASSOCIATION IF WE HAD A

DIFFERENT PARTY FOR GOVERNOR.

DEPARTING FROM WHAT THE

ORIGINAL INTENT WAS OR THE

AGREEMENT THAT WAS STRUCK

BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES OR IS

THERE A PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEM

LETTING THE MAJORITY OF THE

BOARD CHOOSE THEIR

SUPERINTENDENT.

I'M PRAGMATIC, IF IT'S NOT

WORKING, WE'VE GOT TO FIX IT.

AS SENATOR HOLDMAN SAID THERE'S

GOING TO BE A LOT OF TIME TO BE

ABLE TO DEBATE SENATE BILL 1 AS

IT MOVES THROUGH THE PROCESS AND

I DON'T THINK IT WILL LOOK LIKE

IT DOES NOW.

I SURE HOPE IT DOESN'T AS IT

GOES THROUGH THE PROCESS AND I'M

AWAITING THE OPPORTUNITY WHEN

THAT BILL GETS TO THE HOUSE TO

DO CRAFTSMANSHIP TO IT AS WELL.

WHEN THAT BILL MOVES FORWARD

THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF

SUGGESTIONS AS THIS BILL MOVES

FORWARD AND A LOT OF FOLKS GOING

TO GET THEIR FEELINGS HURT

BECAUSE --

TERESA.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE

CAREFUL IN THE LEGISLATURE IN

THAT THE VOTERS ELECTED HER TO

DO A CERTAIN JOB AND THE JOB

THEY ELECTED HER TO DO INCLUDED

LEADING THAT EDUCATION BOARD.

AND SO TO TAKE THAT ROLE AWAY

MIDSTREAM HERE I THINK IS A

BIGAMIES TAKE.

LEADERSHIP OF THE BOARD OR

THE POLICY-MAKING FUNCTION HAS

BECOME THE CRITICAL -- INDIANA

AND OTHER STATES --

JON, AS WE TALKED ABOUT,

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE

LEGISLATIVE INTENT AS WE MOVE

FORWARD -- YOU KNOW, THE

PROPOSAL, AS I SAID, MAY NOT BE

THE SAME -- THERE MIGHT BE

PROPOSALS INTRODUCED THAT LIMITS

THE GOVERNOR'S ABILITY TO TRY TO

INFLUENCE EDUCATION SO THAT'S

GOING TO BE THE GIVE AND TAKE ON

THIS, IT'S NOT JUST GOING TO BE

FOCUSED ON THE SUPERINTENDENT OF

PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.

I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT

HAVING BEEN THE C.E.O. OF A

CORPORATION MYSELF FOR 10 YEARS

AND HAVING THE BLUR OF DIRECTORS

WITH A DIFFERENT BOARD CHAIR, IT

DIDN'T REALLY MATTER WHO THE

CHAIRMAN OF THAT BOARD IS.

IF THERE ARE POLICIES LAID OUT

AS TO HOW ITEMS ARE PLACED ON

THE AGENDA, THE C.E.O -- I WAS

THE AUTHORITY ON BANKING AT MY

300 MILLION-DOLLAR BANK BACK

HOME.

BOARD CHAIRMAN WORKED WITH ME

BUT BOARD CHAIRMEN DIRECTED THE

MEETINGS, BUT WHEN THEY LOOKED

AT THE AUTHORITY FOR THE EXPERT

ON BANKING LAW AND THE BANKING

PRACTICE THEY ASKED ME HOW THAT

WAS DONE.

THE C.E.O. OF YOUR BOARD

WASN'T ELECTED, HE WAS CHOSEN.

THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.

MY HOPE IS THAT THE GENERAL

ASSEMBLY WILL TAKE A LOOK AT

THAT STRUCTURE.

WHEN YOU'VE HAD AS MANY REFORMS

AS WE'VE HAD AND IN A SHORT

PERIOD OF TIME THINGS CAN BECOME

VERY DISJOINTED, VERY

CONTENTIOUS, AND WHAT'S

INCUMBENT ON THE GENERAL

ASSEMBLY IS NOT JUST LOOK AT WHO

CHAIRS THE STATE BOARD BUT LOOK

AT THE STRUCTURE AND MAKE SURE

WE HAVE THE RIGHT STRUCTURE

SUPPORTED.

I CAN TELL YOU WHAT CONCERNS ME

MOST IS THE IMPACT TO THE LOCAL

SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND TO OUR

STUDENTS.

WHEN THINGS ARE DISJOINTED AND

SO CONTENTIOUS AT THIS LEVEL, AT

THE STATE LEVEL IT TENDS TO SLOW

DOWN IMPORTANT REFORMS TRYING TO

BE IMPLEMENTED IN THE FIELD, IT

CREATES CONFUSION AND WE'VE GOT

TO ADDRESS THAT AND CLEAN THAT

UP.

IT'S NOT FAIR TO LOCAL DISTRICTS

TO LEAVE THEM HANGING WHERE

WE'RE AT AND I THINK EVERYBODY'S

IN AGREEMENT ON THAT BUT IT'S

GOING TO COME BACK TO THE

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

ONLY THEY CAN TAKE THE KIND OF

LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY THAT'S

NEEDED TO SET THAT STRUCTURE

AND --

AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF

STUDENTS ARE TRULY AT THE CENTER

OF EVERYTHING WE DO WE ALL NEED

TO DO IS THE MONEY TRAIL LEADING

BACK TO SOMETHING THAT TRULY IS

PURE IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING

STUDENTS OR LEADING BACK TO SOME

FOR-PROFIT OR SOMEONE WHO IS

GOING TO LINE THEIR POCKET WITH

SOME REFORM THAT INDIANA PUSHES

THROUGH THAT CREATES A FINANCIAL

BOON FOR THEM.

LOOK AT THE TESTING.

LOOK AT THE EXPENSE THAT'S IN

THAT.

SO -- AND THAT'S ALL STUFF

THAT'S TALKED ABOUT WITH THESE

EDUCATION ENTITIES.

BRAD ALSO BROUGHT UP NOT ONLY

IS IT THE LEADERSHIP BUT THE

STRUCTURE.

RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE THE 10

MEMBERS ASIDE FROM THE STATE

SUPERINTENDENT OSTENSIBLY

REPRESENTING CONGRESSIONAL

DISTRICTS, AT LEAST FOUR, I

BELIEVE, AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE NO

MORE THAN SIX OF ANY ONE PARTY

WHICH, I GUESS, PARTY

AFFILIATION IS IN THE EYE OF THE

BEHOLDER IN MANY CASES WHETHER

THAT'S ACTUALLY A SPLIT OR NOT,

HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT, IF THE

LEADERSHIP QUESTION IS RESOLVED

IS THIS OTHER STUFF SORT OF

SECONDARY FARCE YOUR CONCERNED,

IT'S NOT A PART OF YOUR BILL

BUT --

I DON'T THINK IT'S

NECESSARILY SECONDARY.

THAT'S ONE THING THAT NEEDS TO

BE CLEANED UP IN THE BILL, TO BE

HONEST WITH YOU, I THINK THAT

SELECTION PROCESS, HOW THAT'S

DONE, I THINK IT'S VERY

IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE

EDUCATORS, FOLKS WITH END ON THE

BOARD AND -- END ON THE BOARD

AND I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE

SOME REQUIREMENT THAT THOSE BE

THERE.

WHEN WE GET TO THESE KIND OF

ISSUES SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T

MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE ON THE

RIGHT SIDE OF THIS ISSUE OR THE

LEFT SIDE OF THIS ISSUE BECAUSE

I THINK EDUCATION SHOULD RULE IN

WHAT'S BEST FOR OUR KIDS AND HOW

WE BRING THOSE SIDES TOGETHER TO

TALK ABOUT THAT.

BUT THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT YOU

JUST SAID, TO THE VERY POINT

THAT ALL OF THIS RHETORIC THAT

WE'VE GONE THROUGH FOR THE LAST

FOUR YEARS HAS BEEN SO

DETRIMENTAL TO WHAT WE'RE TRYING

TO DO THAT WE HAVE GOT TO SEE

SOME CHANGE AND I DON'T THINK

THERE'S ANYBODY WHO WOULDN'T SAY

THIS IS DYSFUNCTIONAL, IT HAS

GOT TO BE FIXED.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS A STAKE IN

WHAT'S GOING ON WHEN WE

CONTRIBUTE MORE THAN $15 BILLION

OUT OF A BIENNIAL BUDGET TOWARDS

EDUCATION THROUGH K12 EDUCATION,

WE ARE A STAKEHOLDER AND WE HAVE

A RIGHT AND AN OBLIGATION TO

MAKE SURE THAT IT WORKS.

AND I AGREE AND I THINK WE'VE

GOT TO DO THIS, TOO.

WHEN WE MOVE FORWARD AND WHEN WE

TALK ABOUT REFORM WE CAN'T LEAVE

OUT PARENTS, OBVIOUSLY,

GUARDIANS, WE -- NEITHER CAN WE

LEAVE OUT TEACHERS.

THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE IN THE

CLASSROOM.

I THINK WE TALK ABOUT THE -- THE

ECOLOGIST SAYING THAT THE

ENROLLMENT IN THOSE EDUCATION

COURSES ARE DOWN, NOBODY WANTS

TO BE A TEACHER ANYMORE, IS THE

OLD TERM THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING

NOW, I THINK THERE'S A REASON

FOR THAT, IT'S BECAUSE THE

MORALE IS LOW.

I FEEL ANYBODY WHO HAS A LITTLE

BIT OF A TEACHER IN THEM ANYTIME

THAT SUPERINTENDENT RITZ IS

ATTACKED THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE

BEING ATTACKED AS WELL.

SO I THINK TEACHERS, THEY HAVE

THAT PERSONAL FEELING WITH, A

CONNECTION WITH ANOTHER TEACHER

THAT, HEY, IF YOU'RE ATTACKING

GLENDA RITZ, YOU'RE ATTACKING

ME.

VERY QUICK LAST WORD BECAUSE

THIS IS A THREE-HOUR COURSE AND

I JUST TRIED TO JAM IT IN.

I THINK WE HAVE TO HOPE THAT

COMES OUT OF THIS SESSION IS

CLARITY AROUND ROLES AND

RESPONSIBILITIES AND CERTAINLY

ACCOUNTABILITY INSIDE OF OUR

GOVERNANCE SYSTEM, WITHOUT A

CLEAR STRUCTURE I THINK IT WILL

CONTINUE TO LINGER AND I HOPE

THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

EDUCATION SUPPORTED, STUDENT

CENTERED.

BY MEDICAL IS RINGING I HEAR

IT, WE'VE GOT TO GO.

ALWAYS LUNCHTIME FOR ME.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE

AGAIN, MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN RS

HOLDMAN OF MARKLE, DEMOCRATIC RF

AUSTIN, TERESA MEREDITH OF THE S

ASSOCIATION, AND BRAD OLIVER OF.

WINE IS FINE, LIQUOR IS QUICR

ON SUNDAY -- YET.

ON THE NEXT "INDIANA LAWMAKERS."

TIME NOW FOR OUR WEEKLY CONV,

PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER "IND

ITS SISTER PUBLICATION, "INDIAN"

HOW MUCH OF THIS IS GOOD

OLD-FASHIONED PARTISAN POLITICS?

A LOT OF IS INVOLVED IN

PARTISAN POLITICS AND

PERSONALITIES BUT IT GOES BACK

TO CLASS BASKETBALL, WHEN WE

CHANGED TO CLASS BASKETBALL THAT

RUINED --

WISE WORDS, I KNEW IT WAS

GOING TO COME BACK TO HAUNT.

IS THIS AN R&D THING OR MUCH

BROADER?

I THINK IT'S BROADER.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THINGS IN

GENERAL, DEMOCRACY ISN'T PRETTY

AND WE'VE GOTTEN ALONG IN STATE

GOVERNMENT WITH EXECUTIVE BORN

AGENCIES AND EXECUTIVE BRANCH

OFFICERS AND GOVERNORS BEING OF

DIFFERENT PARTIES, YOU KNOW,

YOU'VE GOT A GOVERNOR OF ONE

PARTY, AN ATTORNEY GENERAL OF

ANOTHER PARTY.

THAT'S PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.

AND THEY SEEMED TO HAVE GOTTEN

ALONG TOGETHER BACK IN THE BAYH

AND PEARCESON DAYS THAT WE USED

TO COVER AND GOING BACK THEN YOU

HAD EVAN BAYH AND DEAN EVANS,

DIFFERENT PARTIES, THE

SUPERINTENDENT AND GOVERNOR OF

DIFFERENT PARTIES, YOU HAD

SUELLEN REED, A SUPERINTENDENT

WHO WAS REPUBLICAN WHO RAN

AGAINST EVAN BAYH'S HAND-PICKED

CANDIDATE FOR SUPERINTENDENT,

THEY GOT ALONG.

SO TO A CERTAIN EXTENT A LOT OF

THIS DISCUSSION WOULDN'T BE

HAPPENING IF TONY BENNETT WERE

STILL SUPERINTENDENT.

BUT THERE'S MORE TO IT.

THE FACT THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT,

FOR EXAMPLE, LEGISLATIVE

INTERVENTION IN THIS,

LEGISLATIVE APPOINTMENTS IN THIS

PROCESS, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT

MORE TO IT AND THAT'S GOING TO

BE VERY INTERESTING.

I THINK THAT'S MAYBE THE REAL

UNDERSTATED KIND OF ISSUE FROM

ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION THAT

WE'VE REALLY NOT TOUCHED ON AND

THAT'S TO WHAT EXTENT THE

LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE INVOLVED

IN GOING BEYOND JUST SETTING THE

POLICY THAT THEY'VE SET AND

BEING ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN

PICKING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING

TO IMPLEMENT THAT POLICY.

AND YOU THINK THAT WILL PLAY

WELL IN THE END OR DO YOU THINK

THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE

PEOPLE, HEY, IF THIS WERE A

PLAYGROUND WE'D TELL THEM TO

WORK IT OUT.

GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE

LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO ANSWER

WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO DO

SOMETHING I'M NOT SURE THAT'S

EASY TO ANSWER.

ANOTHER THING THEY'RE GOING TO

HAVE TO LOOK AT IS CHANGING

POLICY.

AND ONE OF THOSE POLICY

DETERMINATIONS THEY'VE MADE IS

WE HAVE REPRESENTATIONS ON THE

BOARD FROM CERTAIN TYPES OF

GROUPS AND FROM CERTAIN

GEOGRAPHIC AREAS.

WE'D BE DOING AWAY WITH -- I

THINK SENATOR HOLDMAN INDICATED,

WELL, THAT'S STILL KIND OF UP IN

THE AIR AS TO WHETHER WE'D HAVE

TO HAVE EDUCATORS ON THERE BUT

WE'D BE DOING AWAY WITH

REPRESENTATION BY CONGRESSIONAL

DISTRICT AND CLEARLY WHETHER

YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE

APPOINTED BY A GOVERNOR WHO

WOULD KNOW EVERYTHING GOING ON

IN MEDORA, ROME OR OTHER SMALL

TOWNS AROUND THE THE STATE WHERE

THEY'RE KIND OF REQUIRED TO

RIGHT NOW WITH THAT DISTRICT

REPRESENTATION.

INTERESTING TOPIC, EDUCATION

ALWAYS IS, ED, THANK YOU FOR

YOUR INSIGHT, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT

WEEK.

FOR MORE INFORMATION, EPISODE

STREAMS AND EXTRA CONTENT VISIT

US ON THE WEB AT

WFYI.ORG/LAWMAKERS AND YOU CAN

FOLLOW US ON FACEBOOK AND

TWITTER.

YOU CAN ACCESS LIVE STREAMING

COVERAGE OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

ON THE INTERNET AS WELL.

YOU CAN GET OUR SHOW ON DEMAND

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