1 00:00:01,201 --> 00:00:02,702 - The Red Sox had a line on Willie Mays 2 00:00:02,702 --> 00:00:05,138 before anybody else, in 1948, when Mays was 17 years old. 3 00:00:05,138 --> 00:00:08,108 And Willie told me that, as a teenager, 4 00:00:08,108 --> 00:00:10,210 he went and told all of his friends 5 00:00:10,210 --> 00:00:11,878 that the Red Sox were coming down to look at him, 6 00:00:11,878 --> 00:00:13,446 and that he was going to the Major Leagues 7 00:00:13,446 --> 00:00:14,848 as a member of the Red Sox. 8 00:00:14,848 --> 00:00:17,117 But I remember speaking with him 9 00:00:17,117 --> 00:00:18,385 and him telling me point blank 10 00:00:18,385 --> 00:00:20,820 that it was Tom Yawkey that didn't want him, 11 00:00:20,820 --> 00:00:22,489 that the Red Sox didn't want him. 12 00:00:23,623 --> 00:00:25,725 - So do you think Tom Yawkey was racist, 13 00:00:25,725 --> 00:00:27,660 or you just think he was not willing to-- 14 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:28,895 - Of course Tom Yawkey was a racist. 15 00:00:28,895 --> 00:00:31,398 There's no reason to have this debate. 16 00:00:31,398 --> 00:00:33,233 His resume is on the field. 17 00:00:35,335 --> 00:00:37,404 - I was happy when some of that came out 18 00:00:37,404 --> 00:00:38,872 and when some of that had to be addressed. 19 00:00:38,872 --> 00:00:41,141 And I know it was uncomfortable at times for people, 20 00:00:41,141 --> 00:00:42,642 but too bad. 21 00:00:42,642 --> 00:00:45,478 You can't have this beloved franchise 22 00:00:46,946 --> 00:00:50,517 and not address the really huge smudge over all of it. 23 00:00:50,517 --> 00:00:52,585 - The Red Sox have a shameful past 24 00:00:52,585 --> 00:00:54,187 with respect to race relations. 25 00:00:54,187 --> 00:00:56,089 We were the last team to integrate. 26 00:00:56,089 --> 00:00:59,492 And that is something that we live with forever. 27 00:00:59,492 --> 00:01:01,327 I think it's important to acknowledge it. 28 00:01:01,327 --> 00:01:03,530 And the last 20 years we've tried to make sure 29 00:01:03,530 --> 00:01:05,765 that Fenway is welcoming to all of Boston, 30 00:01:05,765 --> 00:01:07,634 all of New England, all of the world. 31 00:01:09,202 --> 00:01:10,870 - In the end, do you think anything 32 00:01:10,870 --> 00:01:12,405 had to do with the city of Boston? 33 00:01:12,405 --> 00:01:15,675 The city of Boston was not really pushing integration 34 00:01:15,675 --> 00:01:19,145 in the baseball team, or it was really Yawkey himself? 35 00:01:19,145 --> 00:01:20,480 - Well, it's all the above. 36 00:01:21,614 --> 00:01:23,616 Boston's a tough place. 37 00:01:23,616 --> 00:01:25,185 I grew up here, I was born here, 38 00:01:25,185 --> 00:01:28,621 and it's not a welcoming place. 39 00:01:28,621 --> 00:01:30,924 When I was a kid, it was not a welcoming place. 40 00:01:30,924 --> 00:01:32,592 You wouldn't know that there were Black people 41 00:01:32,592 --> 00:01:37,497 from Boston based on how this city has marketed its own. 42 00:01:37,497 --> 00:01:40,567 - [Reporter] Back then, 1983, there were no Black families 43 00:01:40,567 --> 00:01:42,769 in this or any Southie project. 44 00:01:42,769 --> 00:01:44,404 Four years later, 45 00:01:44,404 --> 00:01:47,273 there are still no Black families in South Boston projects. 46 00:01:47,273 --> 00:01:51,077 - The city of Boston has always been kind of a tribal, 47 00:01:51,077 --> 00:01:53,279 parochial, provincial. 48 00:01:53,279 --> 00:01:54,914 East Boston's the Italian people, 49 00:01:54,914 --> 00:01:55,882 the North End's the Italian people. 50 00:01:55,882 --> 00:01:57,250 And the Irish are in Southie. 51 00:01:57,250 --> 00:01:58,518 And Black people in Roxbury. 52 00:01:58,518 --> 00:02:00,587 And that doesn't change. 53 00:02:00,587 --> 00:02:02,889 - As much as I love the Red Sox, 54 00:02:02,889 --> 00:02:07,894 I never thought as a kid of going, 55 00:02:08,761 --> 00:02:10,897 actually going to Fenway Park, 56 00:02:10,897 --> 00:02:15,902 because I figured I would probably face some type of racism, 57 00:02:17,337 --> 00:02:22,342 or prejudice, or hear the hard R inward, you know? 58 00:02:23,676 --> 00:02:26,346 And, as a kid, that probably would've crushed me, 59 00:02:26,346 --> 00:02:28,148 being such a fan of baseball. 60 00:02:28,148 --> 00:02:30,717 (somber music) 61 00:02:32,418 --> 00:02:34,721 - At the end of the day, the thing that you always 62 00:02:34,721 --> 00:02:37,857 have to remember is that there are beating hearts to this. 63 00:02:37,857 --> 00:02:39,893 We're talking about people who really, 64 00:02:39,893 --> 00:02:43,963 really wanted to enjoy this and didn't get a chance to. 65 00:02:43,963 --> 00:02:45,899 And that's the reason why the Red Sox 66 00:02:45,899 --> 00:02:47,433 are so important to this region, 67 00:02:47,433 --> 00:02:49,836 and that's also why they carry such a heavy burden. 68 00:02:53,306 --> 00:02:55,475 What really separates the Red Sox 69 00:02:55,475 --> 00:02:58,778 was the fact that even after integration 70 00:02:58,778 --> 00:03:00,647 the Red Sox still didn't sign Black players. 71 00:03:00,647 --> 00:03:02,081 The Boston Red Sox did not sign 72 00:03:02,081 --> 00:03:05,185 a Black free agent until 1992. 73 00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:07,654 The Red Sox unwillingness to sign Black players, 74 00:03:07,654 --> 00:03:08,788 there's your curse. 75 00:03:08,788 --> 00:03:10,323 You get players, you win.