WEBVTT

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CHRISTIAN HEG WILL BE RETURNED

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TO THEIR PEDESTALS.

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TWO MONTHS SINCE THE KILLING OF

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GEORGE FLOYD IN MINNEAPOLIS.

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A NATIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT

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POLICE REFORM IS ONGOING.

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ONE OF THE ISSUES, HOW TO MAKE

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SURE THE "BAD APPLES" IN THE

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POLICE PROFESSION CAN BE REMOVED

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FROM THE FORCE.

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ZAC SCHULTZ HAS BEEN WORKING

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WITH OUR COLLEAGUES FROM

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WISCONSIN PUBLIC RADIO AND

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WISCONTEXT TO EXAMINE POLICE

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UNION CONTRACTS AND THE ROLE

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THEY PLAY IN PROTECTING BAD

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COPS.

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>> BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT

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IS HIGHLIGHTING POLICING UNIONS

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AND THE ROLE THEY PLAY IN

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PROTECTING OFFICERS.

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YOU'VE PROBABLY SEEN STORIES

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ABOUT THE BAD COPS WHEN GET

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REINSTATED TO THE FORCE.

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SHIELDED FROM CONSEQUENCES BY A

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BUREAUCRATIC SYSTEM AND A UNION

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CONTRACT.

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>> YOU REACT, I REACT.

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>> SO, WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT

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LIMITING THE POWER OF POLICE

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UNIONS.

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>> THE CO-FOUNDER OF A

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NON-PROFIT GROUP FOCUSSED ON

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ELIMINATING POLICE VIOLENCE.

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IT TRACKS CONTRACTS ACROSS THE

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COUNTRY AND A LIST OF PROVISIONS

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WHICH IT SAYS BLOCK

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ACCOUNTABILITY, LIKE GIVING

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ACCUSED OFFICERS ACCESS TO VIDEO

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AND EVIDENCE BEFORE THEY ARE

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INTERVIEWED, NOT ALLOWING

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OFFICERS TO BE INTERVIEWED AFTER

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AN INCIDENT, AND POLICIES THAT

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ERASE OLD MISCONDUCT RECORDS

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AFTER A FEW YEARS.

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>> THE BEST CHIEF AND THE BEST

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MAYOR, THEY ARE LIMITED WHAT

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THEY CAN DO BECAUSE IT'S

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NEGOTIATED AWAY.

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>> WE WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER

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PROVISIONS ARE IN UNION

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CONTRACTS IN WISCONSIN.

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ALONG WITH OUR COLLEAGUES AT

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WISCONSIN PUBLIC RADIO AND

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WISCONTEXT, WE EXAMINE THE

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POLICE UNION CONTRACTS FOR EIGHT

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CITIES.

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MILWAUKEE, WAUKESHA, RACINE,

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KENOSHA, MADISON, BELOIT, GREEN

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BAY, AND WAUSAU.

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WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT WISCONSIN

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IS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE REST

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OF THE COUNTRY.

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>> THERE'S A LEVEL OF

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TRANSPARENCY, ACCOUNTABILITY AND

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INDEPENDENCE THAT EXISTS IN

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WISCONSIN THAT DOES NOT EXIST

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ELSEWHERE.

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>> JIM PALMER, EXECUTIVE

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DIRECTOR OF WPPA.

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WISCONSIN'S LARGEST POLICE

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OFFICER UNION.

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SHERIFF DEPUTIES AND PRISON

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GUARDS.

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>> OVER 10,000 MEMBERS FROM MORE

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THAN 300 LOCAL ASSOCIATION

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AFFILIATES.

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>> MOST POLICE UNION CONTRACTS

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IN WISCONSIN HAVE LITTLE TO SAY

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DISCIPLINE.

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>> WE DON'T HAVE LANGUAGE --

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>> STATE LAW SAYS POLICE

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MISCONDUCT IN WISCONSIN IS

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GOVERNED BY LOCAL POLICE AND

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FIRE COMMISSIONS.

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CITIZEN BOARDS WITH MEMBERS

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APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR.

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>> LEGITIMATE FORM OF CIVILIAN

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CONTROL AND HAVE EXISTED IN

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WISCONSIN OVER 100 YEARS.

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>> NO MAYOR IN WISCONSIN CAN

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FIRE A POLICE OFFICER.

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OUTSIDE OF MILWAUKEE, NO POLICE

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CHIEF CAN EITHER.

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TYPICALLY, INTERNAL

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INVESTIGATION WILL HAND OVER

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EVIDENCE AND A RECOMMENDATION TO

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THE P.F.C. AND IT WILL DECIDE

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THE PUNISHMENT.

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SECOND BIG DIFFERENCE IN

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WISCONSIN.

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>> VAST MAJORITY OF LAW

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ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN THE STATE

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OF WISCONSIN CAN ARBITRATE THE

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DISCIPLINE.

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>> ARBITRATION IS OFTEN BLAMED

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ANY TIME A BAD UNION EMPLOYEE

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KEEPS THEIR JOB.

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>> THESE OFFICERS AND MANY

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OTHERS WERE FIRED AND ALL OF

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THEM GOT THEIR JOBS BACK THANKS

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TO A POLICE UNION CONTRACT AND

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STATE LAW THAT LEAVES FINAL

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PUNISHMENT IN THE HANDS OF AN

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ARBITRATOR.

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>> ARBITRATOR BASICALLY LISTENS

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TO THE PARTIES AND MAKES A

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DECISION.

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KIND OF LIKE BEING A JUDGE BUT

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IT'S A WHOLE LOT LESS FORMAL.

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>> SUE BAUMAN IS AN ARBITRATOR

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RULED ON LAW ENFORCEMENT

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DISCIPLINE CASES IN WISCONSIN

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AND MINNESOTA.

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THE ARBITRATORS ARE SUPPOSED TO

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BE NEUTRAL.

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BUT BOTH SIDES GET TO INFLUENCE

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WHO HEARS THE CASE.

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>> THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT

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UNIONS AND MANAGEMENT KEEP SCORE

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ON ARBITRATORS, THEY KNOW BETTER

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THAN ARBITRATORS KNOW HOW MANY

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TIMES AN ARBITRATOR HAS FOUND

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FOR THE UNION OR FOR THE

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EMPLOYER.

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>> IN WISCONSIN, SHERIFF'S

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DEPUTIES CAN ARBITRATE

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DISCIPLINE, EVEN THOUGH IT IS

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RARE.

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BAUMAN IS ALSO THE FORMER MAYOR

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OF MADISON, AND SHE SAYS

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WISCONSIN'S P.F.C. MODEL IS NOT

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PERFECT.

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>> THE FACT THAT ALL DISCIPLINE

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HAS TO GO THROUGH THE P.F.C. AND

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THAT THE POLICE CHIEF CAN ONLY

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MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, AND THE

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MAYOR HAS ABSOLUTELY NO SAY

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DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.

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>> BAUMAN SAYS NO MATTER WHETHER

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IT'S ARBITRATION OR A P.F.C.,

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THE BIGGEST FACTOR IN

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DISCIPLINING A POLICE OFFICER IS

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WHETHER THEIR SUPERVISORS DID

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THEIR JOB IN PRESENTING THE

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EVIDENCE.

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>> THE EMPLOYEE BROKE THE RULES

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AND THE EMPLOYER SHOWS THAT TO

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THE ARBITRATOR.

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THE ARBITRATOR WILL UPHOLD THE

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DECISION.

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>> HOW MANY YEARS HAVE WE HEARD

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YOU CAN'T FIRE A BAD TEACHER,

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AND NOW WHAT WE ARE HEARING

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WELL, YOU CAN'T FIRE A BAD COP.

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>> DON TAYLOR, PROFESSOR AT THE

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UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN SCHOOL

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FOR WORKERS AND SPECIALIZES IN

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LABOR RELATIONS.

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HE SAYS THE MOST IMPORTANT

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PROTECTION IN POLICE CONTRACTS

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IS DUE PROCESS.

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>> NOT JUST POLICE CONTRACTS,

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BUT ALL CONTRACTS CONTAIN SOME

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SORT OF PROVISION THAT THE

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EMPLOYER HAS TO FOLLOW SOME TYPE

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OF DUE PROCESS IN ORDER TO

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DISCIPLINE OR TERMINATE ANY

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EMPLOYEE.

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>> TAYLOR SAYS GETTING

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DISCIPLINE TO STICK COMES DOWN

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TO MANAGEMENT FOLLOWING THE

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PROPER STEPS.

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>> IN 70% OF CASES WHERE AN

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EMPLOYEE WAS REINSTATED IT WAS

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DUE TO MANAGEMENT ERROR,

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OVERLOOKING MITIGATING

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CIRCUMSTANCES, NOT CREATING A

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PAPER TRAIL, THINGS LIKE THAT.

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>> WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT POLICE

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UNION CONTRACTS IS WHETHER THOSE

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STEPS INCLUDE STRICT TIMELINES,

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AND LETTING THE OFFICER REVIEW

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THE EVIDENCE BEFORE AN

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INTERVIEW.

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TAYLOR HAS DONE WORK FOR POLICE

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UNIONS IN WISCONSIN AND SAYS IF

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THOSE ITEMS ARE IN THE CONTRACT,

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THEY DIDN'T GET THERE BY

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THEMSELVES.

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>> WE SHOULDN'T FORGET THOSE

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WERE NOT JUST SIMPLY CARVED INTO

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STONE BY THE POLICE OFFICERS AND

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THEIR UNION, THE MUNICIPALITY OR

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WHATEVER GOVERNMENT ENTITY THEY

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WORK FOR AGREED TO THOSE THINGS.

06:27.100 --> 06:28.300 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
>> THERE'S ALWAYS ITEMS IN THE

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CONTRACT WE WISH WE COULD HAVE.

06:30.533 --> 06:32.433 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
>> WHICH BRINGS US TO THE

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MILWAUKEE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND

06:35.933 --> 06:40.100 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
CHIEF ALFONSO MORALES.

06:40.100 --> 06:41.933 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
>> YOU READ BETWEEN THE LINES,

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COMMIT CRIME THEY LOSE THEIR JOB

06:42.733 --> 06:44.100 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
AFTER DUE PROCESS.

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>> THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE IS

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TREATED DIFFERENTLY, AND THAT

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EXTENDS TO THE POLICE

06:48.566 --> 06:48.866 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
DEPARTMENT.

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THE ONLY SPECIAL PROVISION

06:51.166 --> 06:52.533 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
RELATED TO DISCIPLINE IN THE

06:52.533 --> 06:55.166 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
UNION CONTRACT SAYS OFFICERS CAN

06:55.166 --> 06:56.666 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
REVIEW BODYCAM AND SQUAD CAR

06:56.666 --> 06:57.800 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
VIDEO BEFORE BEING INTERVIEWED

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ABOUT AN INCIDENT.

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HERE THE CHIEF OF POLICE IMPOSES

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DISCIPLINE AND THE P.F.C. IS

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CALLED THE FIRE AND POLICE

07:04.666 --> 07:06.966 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
COMMISSION AND IT ACTS AS A

07:06.966 --> 07:10.100 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
COURT OF APPEALS TO THE CHIEF'S

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DISCIPLINE.

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>> THE FIRE POLICE COMMISSION

07:16.166 --> 07:16.466 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
HERE

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HEARS IT, DONE PROPERLY, AND

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FOCUSSES ON DISCIPLINE.

07:20.333 --> 07:23.266 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
>> CHIEF MORALES CAME UP THROUGH

07:23.266 --> 07:26.633 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
THE RANKS, HAS SEEN HOW THE

07:26.633 --> 07:27.800 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
UNION WORKS.

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>> SOMETIMES THE ENTIRE

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ORGANIZATION, UNION MEMBERS SAY

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THAT PERSON SHOULD BE PUSHED OUT

07:33.166 --> 07:34.733 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
OF THE DEPARTMENT, THEY ARE

07:34.733 --> 07:36.566 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
GIVING LAW ENFORCEMENT A BAD

07:36.566 --> 07:36.833 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
IMAGE.

07:36.833 --> 07:38.100 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
>> AS THE DEBATE OVER POLICE

07:38.100 --> 07:39.800 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
REFORM CONTINUES AT BOTH THE

07:39.800 --> 07:41.600 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
LOCAL AND STATEWIDE LEVEL, CHIEF

07:41.600 --> 07:42.933 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
MORALES SAYS THERE IS NOT A

07:42.933 --> 07:43.633 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
PERFECT SOLUTION.

07:43.633 --> 07:46.400 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
>> THERE'S PROS AND CONS TO

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EITHER WAY.

07:47.166 --> 07:47.933 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
I DON'T THINK EITHER -- THERE'S

07:47.933 --> 07:50.100 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
NO SYSTEM THAT'S PERFECT.

07:50.100 --> 07:50.700 align:left position:0%,start line:80% size:100%
>> REPORTING FROM MADISON, I'M
