WEBVTT 00:16.100 --> 00:19.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >>Tonight onFrontline,  the story of a fire. 00:19.033 --> 00:21.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> My little girl was crying, "Daddy, Daddy!" 00:21.033 --> 00:24.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% When I woke up, the whole house was in smoke. 00:24.266 --> 00:25.733 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% >>A man accused... 00:25.766 --> 00:27.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% >> He was guilty. 00:27.033 --> 00:30.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He really set that fire and killed those kids. 00:30.166 --> 00:31.366 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% >>An execution... 00:31.400 --> 00:32.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% >> It's really a shame 00:32.900 --> 00:34.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% we couldn't put him to death three times, 00:34.733 --> 00:36.400 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% since he took three lives. 00:36.433 --> 00:38.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% >>And a question of guilt... 00:38.333 --> 00:41.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% (shutter clicking) 00:41.200 --> 00:44.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> There is not one iota of evidence 00:44.100 --> 00:46.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that the fire was arson. 00:46.500 --> 00:49.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% >>...that sparked a national debate. 00:49.033 --> 00:51.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> The state of Texas executed a man 00:51.900 --> 00:55.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% for a crime that they couldn't prove was really a crime. 00:55.400 --> 00:58.100 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >>Tonight onFrontline:  "Death By Fire." 01:11.900 --> 01:13.966 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% >> It's small town America. 01:14.000 --> 01:16.533 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% It's football games on Friday nights. 01:16.566 --> 01:21.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> Everybody gets along, everybody knows everybody. 01:21.766 --> 01:27.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% This is a nice country community. 01:27.766 --> 01:30.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> Corsicana is a wonderful place to live, 01:30.133 --> 01:33.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but every town has their bad people in it, 01:33.300 --> 01:36.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and bad things happen in every town. 01:36.166 --> 01:39.066 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% So we're no different than anybody else. 01:44.166 --> 01:48.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> It was the 23rd of December. 01:48.400 --> 01:53.366 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% "The Price is Right" was on, that was what I was watching. 01:53.400 --> 01:57.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Two or three of the girls went out on the back patio 01:57.333 --> 01:59.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and come running in the house, and said, 01:59.833 --> 02:03.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% "Mama, I think Sheila's house is on fire." 02:03.666 --> 02:08.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% I run to the front and out the door, 02:08.200 --> 02:12.933 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and that's when I seen Todd at his front door, 02:12.966 --> 02:15.366 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and he started screaming, "My babies. 02:15.400 --> 02:18.800 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% Oh, my babies, my babies are burning." 02:18.833 --> 02:20.133 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Their neighbor, 02:20.166 --> 02:22.766 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% 23-year-old Cameron Todd Willingham, 02:22.800 --> 02:26.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% was in the house with his three children when the fire started. 02:26.733 --> 02:30.433 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% >> A call came across the scanner. 02:30.466 --> 02:35.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% There was a house fire with possibly people trapped in it. 02:35.166 --> 02:37.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> I remember my mom screaming, 02:37.766 --> 02:43.466 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% "Go back in, go, go try to get the babies." 02:43.500 --> 02:44.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> And I grabbed him, and I said, 02:44.766 --> 02:47.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "Is there anybody in the house?" 02:47.166 --> 02:50.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% He said, "Yes, my twins are in that room right there." 02:50.533 --> 02:53.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Well, I went in the front door and I went to the left, 02:53.466 --> 02:55.366 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and that's as far as I could get. 02:55.400 --> 02:57.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% It was completely engulfed in fire. 02:57.666 --> 03:00.566 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (sirens blaring) 03:00.600 --> 03:03.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> I pulled up on the scene, got out, 03:04.000 --> 03:06.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% immediately started stretching the fire line. 03:06.633 --> 03:10.033 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I made entry into the house through the front windows, 03:10.066 --> 03:13.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% knocking the fire down as I went. 03:13.666 --> 03:15.500 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> The first fire fighter came out, 03:15.533 --> 03:18.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% he was cradling a small child in his arms, 03:18.700 --> 03:21.533 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and he began to drop to one knee. 03:21.566 --> 03:23.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And as he began to drop to one knee, 03:23.733 --> 03:27.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% the little girl's arm just... 03:27.300 --> 03:29.433 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% just fell limp right at her side, 03:29.466 --> 03:35.100 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% just, you know, just like a little rag doll. 03:35.133 --> 03:38.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> I went back to the fire room looking for the children. 03:38.166 --> 03:40.500 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% At that time, Chief Fogg was in there, 03:40.533 --> 03:42.766 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and he had already located the children, 03:42.800 --> 03:44.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% but they were both dead. 03:46.900 --> 03:50.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Firefighters tried to save two-year-old Amber, 03:50.233 --> 03:52.333 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% but she died shortly after reaching the hospital. 03:54.500 --> 03:58.433 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% All three children-- Amber, Karmon and Kameron-- 03:58.466 --> 04:01.800 align:left position:37.5%,start line:89% size:52.5% were dead. 04:01.833 --> 04:03.700 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% Their mother, Stacy, 04:03.733 --> 04:05.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% was Christmas shopping at a thrift store 04:05.600 --> 04:08.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% when the police told her. 04:08.766 --> 04:11.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> In the blackened ugliness, there are remnants of a fire. 04:11.900 --> 04:14.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% There are remnants of Christmas as well: 04:14.466 --> 04:16.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a melted Christmas tree with a few ornaments, 04:16.766 --> 04:18.833 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% a teddy bear still waiting for Christmas morning. 04:18.866 --> 04:22.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And there are two parents who want this Christmas to go away. 04:22.400 --> 04:24.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> My little girl was crying, "Daddy, daddy!" 04:24.633 --> 04:28.133 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And when I woke up, the whole house was in smoke. 04:28.166 --> 04:32.933 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Todd Willingham was virtually unharmed. 04:32.966 --> 04:37.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> He did have some minor burns on his shoulder, 04:37.600 --> 04:39.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and his hair was singed. 04:39.733 --> 04:41.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% To me, it just was not... 04:41.733 --> 04:44.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the injuries were not consistent with being in a burning house 04:44.900 --> 04:48.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% that was supposedly burning so bad that... 04:48.566 --> 04:51.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that he had to get out and couldn't find his kids. 04:51.500 --> 04:56.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> NARRATOR: Around town in Corsicana, Texas, 04:56.133 --> 04:58.733 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% Willingham's lack of serious injuries 04:58.766 --> 05:02.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and a night of partying after the fire fueled rumors. 05:02.200 --> 05:05.333 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% >> Immediately after the children 05:05.366 --> 05:09.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% were killed in the fire, he was seen at a local bar 05:09.500 --> 05:14.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% essentially exhibiting behavior that was completely inconsistent 05:14.433 --> 05:17.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% with a person who had lost his three children. 05:17.733 --> 05:20.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> When the Willingham children died, 05:20.900 --> 05:23.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% several of us thought it would be a good idea 05:23.366 --> 05:25.800 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% if we did a benefit dart tournament 05:25.833 --> 05:28.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% to raise funds to help with their burial. 05:28.866 --> 05:31.400 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Todd and Stacy Willingham showed up 05:31.433 --> 05:34.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% the night that we had the tournament. 05:34.233 --> 05:38.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Todd got too involved in the fun. 05:42.233 --> 05:44.433 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >> And he was heard to brag to others 05:44.466 --> 05:46.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that he wouldn't have anything to worry about now 05:46.900 --> 05:49.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% because the money would start rolling in 05:49.433 --> 05:51.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% because people would feel sorry for him. 05:51.433 --> 05:55.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> He showed a great interest in a new pair of darts, 05:55.566 --> 05:57.466 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and that really kind of shocked me. 05:57.500 --> 06:00.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I thought, "Well, I'm really not going to let you give me back 06:00.900 --> 06:03.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% the money that I just gave you for a new pair of darts." 06:03.500 --> 06:09.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So I just gave them to him so that he wouldn't lose the money 06:09.833 --> 06:13.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% that I wanted him to spend on those funerals. 06:18.633 --> 06:22.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: The police launched an investigation. 06:22.633 --> 06:26.800 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% Todd Willingham was the primary suspect. 06:26.833 --> 06:30.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> You've got to count his actions before and after, 06:30.666 --> 06:32.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you've got to count his actions during the fire 06:32.866 --> 06:35.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% and things like that. 06:35.066 --> 06:38.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That makes the whole story, not just one little segment of it; 06:39.000 --> 06:41.133 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% it's every bit of the story. 06:43.100 --> 06:47.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: The police had been to Willingham's house before. 06:47.100 --> 06:49.433 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% >> We'd been over to Todd's house 06:49.466 --> 06:52.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% where he'd got physical with his wife Stacy 06:52.100 --> 06:55.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% on a couple occasions. 06:55.233 --> 06:59.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% >> He was a very mean man. 06:59.900 --> 07:03.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% He beat on Stacy all the time. 07:03.700 --> 07:06.100 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% I mean, you know... 07:06.133 --> 07:10.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I mean, this was, like, every day. 07:10.433 --> 07:14.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> They could hear the impact of him hitting his wife 07:14.466 --> 07:16.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and his wife hitting the floor. 07:16.700 --> 07:19.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% His statements to her that were... 07:19.800 --> 07:21.433 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% could be overheard throughout the neighborhood: 07:21.466 --> 07:24.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% "Don't get up, bitch, or I'll hit you again." 07:24.366 --> 07:29.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> I figured he would kill Stacy, you know. 07:29.200 --> 07:31.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% That's how bad it was. 07:31.100 --> 07:33.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% You know, something terrible is going to happen, 07:33.633 --> 07:37.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and he will eventually kill her. 07:37.100 --> 07:39.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> NARRATOR: Witnesses who had been at the fire 07:39.133 --> 07:41.566 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% also told police that Willingham did nothing 07:41.600 --> 07:44.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to rescue his children. 07:44.533 --> 07:48.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> Once he got outside, I cannot find anybody who actually said 07:48.633 --> 07:52.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% he made an attempt to get back in to save his kids. 07:52.666 --> 07:55.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> He didn't try to go back in. 07:55.500 --> 07:56.700 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% Not one time. 07:58.500 --> 08:02.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> Putting that whole picture together made me believe 08:02.066 --> 08:03.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that he was guilty of homicide, 08:03.800 --> 08:07.100 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% that he killed his three little girls. 08:07.133 --> 08:11.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And my job was to find how them little girls died, 08:11.166 --> 08:13.666 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and if it is an act, a criminal act, 08:13.700 --> 08:16.400 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% it's my job to build a case 08:16.433 --> 08:18.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% so he can be prosecuted for his act. 08:22.566 --> 08:24.900 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: As soon as the fire was out, 08:24.933 --> 08:27.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the search for the cause of the blaze began. 08:38.866 --> 08:40.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: Investigators came to believe 08:40.200 --> 08:42.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% that this was a crime scene. 08:42.300 --> 08:45.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> You start by eliminating accidental causes. 08:55.533 --> 08:59.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> When you get through with your accidental causes, 08:59.700 --> 09:03.333 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% what's left? 09:03.366 --> 09:06.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: They figured the fire had started on the floor. 09:06.966 --> 09:10.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% They were looking for evidence that something flammable 09:10.433 --> 09:13.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% might have been poured there. 09:20.300 --> 09:24.466 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> In the children's room, there... 09:24.500 --> 09:28.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they were signs of what we thought was an accelerant 09:28.633 --> 09:30.900 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% poured on the floor. 09:30.933 --> 09:33.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Usually accelerants will leak through the cracks on the floor 09:33.933 --> 09:37.366 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and burn underneath, and the fire burns up. 09:37.400 --> 09:40.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: Then, at the door to the porch, 09:40.300 --> 09:43.466 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% investigators found what they were looking for. 09:43.500 --> 09:45.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> There was an unusual burn pattern 09:45.266 --> 09:47.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% on the aluminum threshold plate, 09:47.500 --> 09:51.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% which indicates that something had been introduced, 09:51.466 --> 09:53.266 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% poured down, leaked through. 09:53.300 --> 09:54.966 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% We took a sample of that, 09:55.000 --> 09:57.966 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and it came back as a positive sample 09:58.000 --> 10:00.700 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% for charcoal lighter fluid. 10:00.733 --> 10:07.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And I'm thinking that's the first time I called it arson. 10:07.433 --> 10:10.066 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: The official state report on the fire 10:10.100 --> 10:13.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% listed 20 indicators of arson. 10:13.300 --> 10:15.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Investigators were now convinced. 10:29.066 --> 10:32.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> NARRATOR: The police called in Todd Willingham. 10:32.933 --> 10:37.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> My dad told him to go down there and give a statement, 10:37.366 --> 10:40.633 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and when he went and gave a statement, 10:40.666 --> 10:42.433 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% he talks too much. 10:46.033 --> 10:48.333 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% And I don't know what all he said, 10:48.366 --> 10:52.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% but whatever he said, that started it. 10:52.600 --> 10:56.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> Just his whole demeanor to me 10:56.100 --> 11:01.333 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% looked like he just wanted to tell a story. 11:01.366 --> 11:03.933 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% More like he was bragging about it 11:03.966 --> 11:06.666 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% than, you know, being remorseful. 11:06.700 --> 11:10.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% He was more like he was proud of his actions, 11:10.533 --> 11:14.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that he claimed he tried to do to save his kids and stuff. 11:14.600 --> 11:19.300 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> Willingham said he heard the oldest one calling "Daddy" 11:19.333 --> 11:24.500 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and went into the bedroom and crawled around on the floor 11:24.533 --> 11:26.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% because the smoke was so thick and stuff, 11:26.700 --> 11:30.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% looking for the babies, but he was unable to find them. 11:30.300 --> 11:34.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: But Officer Hensley wasn't buying the story. 11:34.400 --> 11:36.900 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% >> After a while in this business, 11:36.933 --> 11:38.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% you get to judge people 11:38.866 --> 11:41.366 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% by their actions and their looks, you know. 11:41.400 --> 11:43.366 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% And you're not 100 percent right, 11:43.400 --> 11:46.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% but usually it's a good thing to go on. 11:46.666 --> 11:48.800 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% Just looking at his eyes, 11:48.833 --> 11:53.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I didn't see any type of remorse or sympathy in them. 11:53.533 --> 11:56.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: And Willingham's story didn't seem to square up 11:56.533 --> 11:58.266 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% with his lack of injuries. 11:58.300 --> 12:00.566 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% >> He was barefoot when he come out, 12:00.600 --> 12:04.333 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and he had no burns on his feet. 12:04.366 --> 12:08.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But we could see where there was burns in the hallway, 12:08.100 --> 12:09.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and we can't figure out how he got out 12:10.000 --> 12:11.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% without burning his feet. 12:11.666 --> 12:14.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: Detectives pushed Willingham to confess. 12:14.633 --> 12:18.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They even used pictures of his dead children. 12:18.266 --> 12:22.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> Todd didn't show any remorse in the interview 12:22.866 --> 12:28.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% until I actually showed him the pictures of his children. 12:28.266 --> 12:32.466 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% And at that time, he started crying. 12:32.500 --> 12:34.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You know, I don't think he was sad so much 12:34.466 --> 12:36.133 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that he killed the kids 12:36.166 --> 12:39.933 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% as much as that it's come into light 12:39.966 --> 12:42.900 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% that, you know, he was a suspect in it. 12:42.933 --> 12:45.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: They charged him with murder. 12:45.666 --> 12:47.300 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Bail was set at $1 million. 12:52.533 --> 12:59.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They offered him a deal: confess and avoid the death penalty. 12:59.100 --> 13:01.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% His court-appointed attorney, David Martin, 13:01.766 --> 13:05.000 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% urged him to take the plea. 13:05.033 --> 13:08.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> If all the evidence is overwhelming 13:08.466 --> 13:13.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% that the person is guilty of the crime charged, 13:13.466 --> 13:16.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and the chances of introducing reasonable doubt 13:16.900 --> 13:20.100 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% are slim to none in your professional opinion, 13:20.133 --> 13:23.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of course you'd rather have him accept a life sentence 13:23.133 --> 13:25.066 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% and save his life. 13:25.100 --> 13:26.766 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: Despite the pressure, 13:26.800 --> 13:29.233 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% Willingham refused to plead guilty. 13:29.266 --> 13:32.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% He'd take his chances in front of a jury. 13:32.266 --> 13:34.466 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% >> He wouldn't plead guilty. 13:34.500 --> 13:38.533 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% He was very adamant. 13:38.566 --> 13:43.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% He said they could kill him right then and there. 13:43.633 --> 13:48.000 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: The case went to trial in August of 1992. 13:48.033 --> 13:51.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% The prosecution began with a surprising witness: 13:51.833 --> 13:55.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% a jailhouse informant. 13:55.666 --> 13:58.333 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> There was the testimony of Johnny Webb, 13:58.366 --> 14:02.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% who had been incarcerated at the same time as Willingham 14:02.233 --> 14:05.033 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and who testified that Willingham had confessed. 14:05.066 --> 14:09.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> He said, "Well, you know, I can't deal with what I've done." 14:09.600 --> 14:13.233 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And I said, "What are you talking about?" 14:13.266 --> 14:16.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And that's when he confessed to what he'd done. 14:16.533 --> 14:20.100 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: And Webb told prosecutors something else. 14:20.133 --> 14:22.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% >> Willingham admitted to him 14:22.933 --> 14:26.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that he spread the accelerant on the floor 14:26.233 --> 14:28.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% in the children's room 14:28.033 --> 14:31.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% in sort of a pentagram or a star-shaped pattern. 14:32.000 --> 14:33.266 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: A pentagram. 14:33.300 --> 14:36.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% To the prosecutor, it was a symbol for Satan worship, 14:36.900 --> 14:43.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and he offered posters found in Willingham's room as proof. 14:43.533 --> 14:46.033 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% >> It was a poster of an iron bar 14:46.066 --> 14:49.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% being driven through a person's head, 14:49.200 --> 14:54.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and there was some indication that it was some sort of a... 14:54.533 --> 14:56.633 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% a Satanist image. 14:58.266 --> 15:00.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> You got three little girls' lives involved. 15:00.466 --> 15:04.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% They showed these kids to the jury 15:04.333 --> 15:08.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and you hear his past, you see that, 15:08.766 --> 15:14.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and the judge tells them to do what they need to be doing. 15:14.066 --> 15:16.566 align:left position:40%,start line:83% size:50% I mean, I don't know how much more 15:16.600 --> 15:20.566 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% you could stack it against him, do you? 15:20.600 --> 15:22.333 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% >> There's plenty of people 15:22.366 --> 15:24.300 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% walking around in Corsicana, Texas, 15:24.333 --> 15:26.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that if that happened to them today, 15:26.166 --> 15:28.000 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% they would get the benefit of the doubt 15:28.033 --> 15:29.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because they had treated their family 15:29.666 --> 15:32.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% in a respectful manner and taken care of them, okay? 15:32.766 --> 15:35.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Todd Willingham had not treated his family 15:35.233 --> 15:37.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% in a respected manner, 15:37.100 --> 15:40.900 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and he didn't get the benefit of the doubt 15:40.933 --> 15:42.666 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% that some people would have. 15:46.133 --> 15:49.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: The trial lasted three days. 15:49.100 --> 15:52.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% It only took an hour for the jury to find Willingham guilty. 15:52.566 --> 15:55.500 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% He was sentenced to death. 15:55.533 --> 15:58.466 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> You know, I've been criticized by some 15:58.500 --> 16:03.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% because I've said that of course I thought he was guilty. 16:03.333 --> 16:05.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% How stupid would you be, 16:05.500 --> 16:08.033 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% how incompetent would you be as a defense attorney 16:08.066 --> 16:09.900 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% if you just went in 16:09.933 --> 16:13.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and swallowed the story the defendant gave you? 16:13.533 --> 16:18.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% The real fact of the matter is that Willingham was guilty. 16:18.866 --> 16:20.400 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% He wasn't innocent. 16:20.433 --> 16:24.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He really set that fire and killed those kids. 16:24.133 --> 16:26.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> I feel like justice was served 16:26.566 --> 16:28.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% for those three little girls. 16:28.200 --> 16:31.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% It was a jury of 12 people of this community 16:31.600 --> 16:33.266 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% who determined that, 16:33.300 --> 16:35.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% with all the evidence presented to them, 16:35.400 --> 16:37.000 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% that he was guilty, 16:37.033 --> 16:39.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and that's the way the system works. 16:47.666 --> 16:50.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Willingham was taken to the Texas state prison 16:50.133 --> 16:52.600 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% at Huntsville to await his execution. 17:00.300 --> 17:02.900 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> He said the worst thing in the world 17:02.933 --> 17:06.500 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% is to be accused of what he is accused of 17:06.533 --> 17:08.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and to be found guilty of that, 17:09.000 --> 17:13.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and then have to go to death row and live with that. 17:13.233 --> 17:16.600 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% >> When he was in death row, 17:16.633 --> 17:17.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% they would step on his heels, you know, 17:17.666 --> 17:19.600 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and trip him and call him "baby killer" 17:19.633 --> 17:21.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and everything else, you know. 17:21.633 --> 17:25.433 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Willingham sat on death row for seven years. 17:25.466 --> 17:27.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% His appeals were going nowhere. 17:28.000 --> 17:32.466 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% There was little interest in his case. 17:32.500 --> 17:38.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Then inmate number 999041 received a letter. 17:38.666 --> 17:42.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It was from 47-year-old Elizabeth Gilbert. 17:42.433 --> 17:44.600 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% >> Someone asked me 17:44.633 --> 17:46.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% if I would like to write a man on death row, 17:47.000 --> 17:50.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% be a pen pal, and I was like, "Sure," and I volunteered. 17:50.500 --> 17:53.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I had been in a place in my life-- 17:53.033 --> 17:55.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% a relationship had ended, my parents were getting elderly, 17:55.766 --> 17:57.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% I was kind of adrift. 17:57.300 --> 18:00.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% The name that was given to me, just randomly, 18:00.200 --> 18:01.166 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% was Todd Willingham. 18:01.200 --> 18:04.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Willingham eagerly wrote back. 18:04.666 --> 18:08.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> I was just really struck by the letter from Todd. 18:08.133 --> 18:09.366 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% It was very polite. 18:09.400 --> 18:12.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% It was very kind. 18:12.033 --> 18:15.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Gilbert wanted to know more about Willingham. 18:15.566 --> 18:18.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% She decided to meet him face to face. 18:18.266 --> 18:21.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> I walked in expecting to see a black man, 18:21.200 --> 18:24.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% you know, the whole stereotype. 18:24.033 --> 18:29.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And here was this handsome young white man 18:29.233 --> 18:32.133 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% who was very polite and very genial. 18:32.166 --> 18:35.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Willingham told her his version 18:35.533 --> 18:37.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% of what happened at the fire. 18:37.433 --> 18:41.433 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> The story he told me was, you know, this, 18:41.466 --> 18:44.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% he woke up to a fire, you know. 18:44.200 --> 18:45.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% He ran out of the house, 18:45.833 --> 18:48.600 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% couldn't get back in to save his children. 18:48.633 --> 18:53.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% There's a writer in me that was like, "This is a great story." 18:53.366 --> 18:56.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Gilbert decided to find out for herself 18:56.633 --> 18:58.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% who Todd Willingham really was. 19:02.033 --> 19:05.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% His story began in Ardmore, Oklahoma. 19:09.433 --> 19:14.466 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> Todd's mother had several children by different fathers 19:14.500 --> 19:16.933 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and Todd had been abandoned in California. 19:19.433 --> 19:22.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Todd's father Gene had remarried. 19:22.100 --> 19:25.566 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% His wife Eugenia raised Todd as her own. 19:25.600 --> 19:30.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> We got Todd when he was 13 months old. 19:30.666 --> 19:34.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% I thought he might be anxious and cry, 19:34.366 --> 19:38.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% but he just crawled up in my lap. 19:38.100 --> 19:41.033 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% That was it. 19:41.066 --> 19:43.466 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% He acted like he'd always lived there. 19:43.500 --> 19:48.066 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% He had a way of telling you how he felt. 19:48.100 --> 19:52.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% He never came into the room when he didn't hug my neck. 19:52.533 --> 19:56.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: It was a different story with Todd's father. 19:56.666 --> 19:59.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> He's the type of guy that... 19:59.333 --> 20:03.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% just that you can't do anything right and everything's wrong. 20:04.000 --> 20:07.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Let's say that he has a hammer there, 20:07.100 --> 20:10.100 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and you borrow it and you put it back. 20:10.133 --> 20:13.900 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% That's good, but it's not good enough 20:13.933 --> 20:16.733 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% if it's not facing the same way. 20:16.766 --> 20:21.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> His father was very strict, and Todd knew this, 20:21.900 --> 20:24.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% but it didn't stop him from doing some things 20:24.333 --> 20:26.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% that he got in trouble for. 20:29.533 --> 20:31.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Todd struggled in school, 20:31.800 --> 20:34.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and Gilbert was surprised to learn 20:34.200 --> 20:37.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that by the sixth grade, he was already using drugs. 20:37.766 --> 20:41.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% He liked to inhale the aerosol from spray paint cans. 20:41.833 --> 20:45.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> I think he started huffing paint when he was 11. 20:45.066 --> 20:47.466 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% He started on drugs at 11. 20:47.500 --> 20:50.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> You know, I'd see signs, and I'd ask him 20:50.533 --> 20:52.566 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and he'd blame it on the other kids, you know. 20:52.600 --> 20:57.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >> His mind kind of stayed there. 20:57.800 --> 20:59.400 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% To me, his thinking ability 20:59.433 --> 21:05.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% always stayed at 11, 12, 13, along in there. 21:07.766 --> 21:09.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: During his trial, 21:09.200 --> 21:11.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% prosecutors claimed that as Willingham got older, 21:11.533 --> 21:15.233 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% he began to commit increasingly violent crimes. 21:15.266 --> 21:17.833 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% >> He would have him a gang. 21:17.866 --> 21:22.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% He would recruit younger kids that he could intimidate 21:22.266 --> 21:24.800 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and send them out to pull the burglaries 21:24.833 --> 21:26.533 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and bring the loot back to him, 21:26.566 --> 21:28.600 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and then he would pay them off in drugs. 21:28.633 --> 21:31.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: And jurors heard that Willingham 21:31.833 --> 21:34.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% was a violent sociopath. 21:34.033 --> 21:38.866 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> He was an individual with essentially no redeeming values. 21:38.900 --> 21:43.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% This was his crowning achievement as a psychopath, 21:43.700 --> 21:46.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the murder of his three children. 21:46.200 --> 21:50.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> NARRATOR: In fact, psychiatrist Dr. James Grigson 21:50.266 --> 21:54.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% testified Willingham was a severe sociopath. 21:54.600 --> 21:59.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Grigson had testified in more than 100 death penalty cases, 21:59.366 --> 22:02.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% earning the nickname "Dr. Death." 22:02.233 --> 22:05.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% >> He's hired to come in 22:05.133 --> 22:07.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and make sure they get the death penalty 22:07.066 --> 22:09.333 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% by assuring the jury that, you know, 22:09.366 --> 22:11.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% this person would be just a... 22:11.966 --> 22:16.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% you know, has to be removed from society. 22:16.633 --> 22:18.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Gilbert discovered 22:18.300 --> 22:20.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% that Grigson had never met Willingham, 22:20.600 --> 22:24.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but those who actually knew Todd 22:24.800 --> 22:27.700 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% said he was hardly a violent criminal. 22:27.733 --> 22:30.933 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >> I just didn't see that person. 22:30.966 --> 22:33.133 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% That's not the Todd I knew. 22:33.166 --> 22:38.000 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Todd had been arrested for tampering with an automobile. 22:38.033 --> 22:41.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% In other words, he had opened the door of a vehicle 22:41.100 --> 22:43.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and not gotten any further. 22:43.300 --> 22:44.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% By the time he'd opened the door, 22:44.833 --> 22:46.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the police were already on site. 22:46.500 --> 22:49.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> I put him in jail, I think, on his 18th birthday 22:49.733 --> 22:51.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% because he'd screwed up again. 22:51.033 --> 22:53.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And I said, "I have tried to save your ass, 22:53.666 --> 22:55.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% "and now I'm going to put your ass in jail 22:55.233 --> 22:57.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% "so you can't enjoy your 18th birthday. 22:57.233 --> 22:58.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% You're going to go to jail for the weekend" 22:58.733 --> 23:02.033 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% or whatever it was-- I don't remember the details. 23:02.066 --> 23:05.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% He wasn't a sociopath, he wasn't a psychopath; 23:05.466 --> 23:09.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% he did stupid crap like steal bikes. 23:09.033 --> 23:12.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: And in Todd's teenage love 23:12.733 --> 23:14.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% of heavy metal music, 23:14.900 --> 23:17.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Gilbert found an explanation for those Satanic posters; 23:17.433 --> 23:21.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% they were from the rock bands Led Zeppelin and Iron Maiden. 23:21.766 --> 23:26.733 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% (Led Zeppelin's "Black Dog" playing) 23:26.766 --> 23:30.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> We had posters of Iron Maiden hanging in our house, too. 23:30.500 --> 23:33.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% My ex-husband probably still has 23:33.666 --> 23:36.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% his Iron Maiden posters, you know, at 40. 23:37.000 --> 23:40.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% He... they were Iron Maiden fans. 23:40.266 --> 23:42.333 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% So what? 23:47.633 --> 23:49.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> What they looked at were posters on the wall, 23:49.833 --> 23:52.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% which are the typical posters that young men listen to, 23:52.866 --> 23:55.000 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% the heavy metal; 23:55.033 --> 23:56.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% that he smoked pot, you know; 23:56.900 --> 23:59.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that he had this horrible past of crime 23:59.233 --> 24:01.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% which turned out to be shoplifting and a bicycle. 24:04.133 --> 24:07.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: Gilbert followed Todd's trail 24:07.533 --> 24:09.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% from Oklahoma to Texas. 24:13.766 --> 24:16.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% He'd moved to Corsicana to be with his girlfriend Stacy. 24:22.033 --> 24:24.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% They'd met while she was still in high school 24:24.933 --> 24:28.100 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and before long had three children under the age of two. 24:28.133 --> 24:31.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> He changed their diapers and took care of them 24:31.533 --> 24:33.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and did everything that they needed. 24:33.200 --> 24:36.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And he made them a lot of macaroni and cheese. 24:36.100 --> 24:38.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He did a lot of cooking for them. 24:38.966 --> 24:42.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Stacy wound up waitressing in her brother's bar 24:42.133 --> 24:45.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% while Todd stayed home with the kids. 24:45.766 --> 24:49.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> I know they struggled that year, 24:49.066 --> 24:52.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% trying to take care of three babies, 24:52.533 --> 24:55.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and it was very hard, you know. 24:55.266 --> 24:58.100 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% I can't imagine. 24:58.133 --> 25:01.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> I'd say to the girls, he was a real good dad, 25:01.733 --> 25:05.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but as far as going out and providing a nice home, 25:05.166 --> 25:08.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% nice job for the family, 25:08.333 --> 25:11.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and being a family provider like you're supposed to, 25:11.700 --> 25:15.300 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% I'd say he didn't. 25:15.333 --> 25:18.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: Todd and Stacy's relationship 25:18.233 --> 25:20.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% deteriorated into abuse. 25:20.666 --> 25:23.966 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% >> When you have three little kids 25:24.000 --> 25:27.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and you're stuck in the house always together 25:27.400 --> 25:29.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and your friends are out doing stuff, 25:29.933 --> 25:33.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% I think that was part of Todd and Stacy's problem, you know? 25:33.600 --> 25:35.933 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% Three little kids and you're poor 25:35.966 --> 25:41.666 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and you get bored and start picking at each other. 25:41.700 --> 25:45.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Nevertheless, only three months before the fire, 25:45.500 --> 25:48.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Todd and Stacy decided to get married. 25:48.666 --> 25:52.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> He told me, he said, "I'm going to try to do what's right. 25:52.133 --> 25:54.466 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% "I'm going to try to make this work, 25:54.500 --> 25:56.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and we're going to get married." 25:56.100 --> 25:58.266 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% And he said, "I know it's going to be hard, 25:58.300 --> 26:01.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% but that's what I should do." 26:01.166 --> 26:04.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Todd would have to change his ways; 26:04.566 --> 26:07.333 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% he had a reputation as a ladies man. 26:07.366 --> 26:14.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> Stacy wasn't the only girl in his life, I'm sorry to say. 26:14.533 --> 26:17.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Todd acted like he really cared for Stacy, 26:17.900 --> 26:21.466 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% but he acted like he cared for other girls, too. 26:21.500 --> 26:25.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: There was one woman in particular. 26:25.100 --> 26:29.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> She was an older woman that I didn't approve of at all. 26:29.800 --> 26:34.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% She was a neighbor that lived across the street 26:34.733 --> 26:37.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% and had children his age. 26:37.233 --> 26:39.800 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: When he married Stacy, 26:39.833 --> 26:42.466 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Todd ended the relationship. 26:42.500 --> 26:48.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> When he come and he told me that he had married Stacy, it... 26:51.600 --> 26:55.900 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% ...it broke my heart because I knew I was losing 26:55.933 --> 27:01.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% at that time, the love of my life, my soul mate. 27:01.666 --> 27:05.900 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% And... but I knew why he was doing it, 27:05.933 --> 27:12.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I could not ask him to walk away from his kids 27:12.833 --> 27:16.333 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% because he couldn't do it. 27:16.366 --> 27:18.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% I wouldn't do that to him 27:18.466 --> 27:20.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because I knew how much he loved them. 27:20.533 --> 27:24.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> He had other choices, but he... 27:24.800 --> 27:26.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% he chose his children. 27:28.733 --> 27:32.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: After the fire, Stacy stood by Todd, 27:32.566 --> 27:34.600 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% insisting he was innocent. 27:34.633 --> 27:40.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But when he was sent to prison, she started a new life. 27:40.133 --> 27:44.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> After the conviction and after Todd was on Death Row, 27:44.266 --> 27:47.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Stacy decided to get a divorce. 27:47.100 --> 27:49.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% She didn't visit him on Death Row. 27:54.366 --> 27:59.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: Elizabeth Gilbert found Stacy in Corsicana. 27:59.466 --> 28:02.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >>They kept saying that the fire... 28:02.400 --> 28:05.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> I told her I was a writer, I'm from Houston. 28:05.233 --> 28:11.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I interviewed her, I taped her, and she was very... 28:11.400 --> 28:16.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% seemed kind of reserved, nervous. 28:16.066 --> 28:21.300 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Just a person who had a lot of tragedy in her life. 28:31.766 --> 28:33.800 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Todd had begged Stacy to visit him, 28:33.833 --> 28:36.333 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% but she refused. 28:50.200 --> 28:54.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Nevertheless, Stacy said she didn't believe Todd 28:54.433 --> 28:58.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% was capable of killing the children. 29:16.200 --> 29:19.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% >> She really convinced me 29:19.733 --> 29:21.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that she felt that an injustice had been done. 29:21.133 --> 29:23.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% My sense in the interview was, like, 29:23.766 --> 29:26.800 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% she left me with the opinion that Todd was innocent 29:26.833 --> 29:29.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because she didn't feel that he had done this. 29:29.300 --> 29:31.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% She didn't feel like he was capable of doing that. 29:31.533 --> 29:36.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Now Gilbert wanted to sort out the other evidence. 29:36.366 --> 29:42.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> I went up to Austin and got the records of the trial. 29:42.600 --> 29:45.400 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% I'm in, you know, copying these records. 29:45.433 --> 29:47.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% I'm reading these reports. 29:47.733 --> 29:49.433 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: She dug into the story 29:49.466 --> 29:51.866 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% of that jailhouse informant. 29:51.900 --> 29:54.433 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >> A red flag to me was Johnny Webb. 29:54.466 --> 29:59.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% The idea that a prisoner would confess to a complete stranger 29:59.700 --> 30:05.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that he had committed a crime just didn't... 30:05.033 --> 30:07.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% I just didn't buy that. 30:07.633 --> 30:09.300 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: Webb had a reputation 30:09.333 --> 30:11.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% as a troubled young man 30:11.400 --> 30:14.533 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% with a long history of felony arrests. 30:14.566 --> 30:17.733 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >> We decided to use his testimony, 30:17.766 --> 30:22.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% even though his credibility was subject to attack. 30:22.133 --> 30:25.666 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% We felt that he had no real reason 30:25.700 --> 30:27.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to lie about this particular... 30:27.966 --> 30:32.133 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% what we'd term a jailhouse confession. 30:32.166 --> 30:36.000 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Gilbert decided to talk to Webb in person. 30:36.033 --> 30:38.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% She found him serving 15 years. 30:38.233 --> 30:41.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% He stood by his story. 30:41.066 --> 30:44.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> He was a very nervous young man. 30:44.633 --> 30:48.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% I wouldn't have... had I been sitting, you know, on the jury, 30:48.700 --> 30:51.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I couldn't have bought his testimony. 30:51.300 --> 30:54.633 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >> NARRATOR: Later, her suspicions about Webb 30:54.666 --> 30:58.433 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% were confirmed when he sent this letter to prosecutors 30:58.466 --> 31:00.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% recanting his testimony 31:00.500 --> 31:04.566 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% and declaring Willingham's innocence. 31:04.600 --> 31:08.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And then he changed that story, recanting the recantation, 31:09.000 --> 31:12.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and now he doesn't remember any of it. 31:14.400 --> 31:16.166 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% >> I don't remember. 31:16.200 --> 31:17.333 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% Maybe I did. 31:17.366 --> 31:19.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Maybe it's because of everything I was going through, 31:19.600 --> 31:20.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I told them I was going to recant 31:20.933 --> 31:22.900 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% if someone doesn't help me, 31:22.933 --> 31:25.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because they was trying to kill me. 31:25.233 --> 31:26.766 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% You know what I'm saying? 31:26.800 --> 31:29.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Something to put some pressure on somebody to do something 31:29.233 --> 31:31.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to get me out of where I was at. 31:31.300 --> 31:34.166 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: As Willingham's execution date neared, 31:34.200 --> 31:37.666 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% there were other problems Gilbert could not overcome. 31:37.700 --> 31:41.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% She learned Willingham had lied to investigators 31:41.500 --> 31:44.033 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% about his attempts to rescue the children. 31:44.066 --> 31:47.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> I think the big secret that he was carrying was the guilt. 31:47.100 --> 31:50.766 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% In his mind, he couldn't acknowledge 31:50.800 --> 31:52.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% that he didn't, you know, try to save his children, 31:52.766 --> 31:55.966 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% so he concocted the story that he, you know, 31:56.000 --> 31:59.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% tried to go in and find the babies and couldn't. 31:59.433 --> 32:04.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> And he said, "What I'm guilty of is being a coward." 32:04.300 --> 32:07.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% He said, "I should have died in that house with the kids." 32:07.666 --> 32:13.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But he said, "It doesn't matter what people say, 32:13.066 --> 32:16.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "you can't let yourself catch on fire 32:16.100 --> 32:19.166 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% without trying to get away." 32:19.200 --> 32:21.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And you can sit and say every day, 32:21.833 --> 32:25.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "I would burn up before I let my kids die in a fire," 32:25.466 --> 32:30.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% but he says, "It's not humanly possible." 32:30.666 --> 32:33.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: And the biggest challenge remained: 32:33.933 --> 32:36.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that evidence of arson. 32:36.333 --> 32:39.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Gilbert had never been able to get an arson expert 32:39.933 --> 32:44.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to examine the state's findings. 32:44.333 --> 32:46.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And then, just three months before the execution, 32:47.000 --> 32:49.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Gilbert was in an automobile accident. 32:54.066 --> 32:58.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Paralyzed, Gilbert could no longer visit Willingham. 32:58.166 --> 33:01.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> You know, it was impossible for me to go. 33:01.300 --> 33:05.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I was incapable of that sort of travel, you know. 33:05.666 --> 33:09.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Sitting in a chair that long, driving to Huntsville, 33:09.233 --> 33:10.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% it just wouldn't have happened. 33:10.700 --> 33:14.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> NARRATOR: Gilbert's investigation was over. 33:20.600 --> 33:23.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >>Under the windows, the low burn... 33:23.800 --> 33:27.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: In the 12 years since Willingham's conviction, 33:27.300 --> 33:30.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% one fact had remained unquestioned: 33:30.166 --> 33:32.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% the fire was an arson. 33:32.233 --> 33:38.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> Burn patterns unusual to a normal fire burn. 33:38.233 --> 33:40.600 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: But during those years, 33:40.633 --> 33:42.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% there had been a dramatic change 33:42.800 --> 33:44.966 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% in the science of arson investigation. 33:45.000 --> 33:47.666 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> The fire investigation community 33:47.700 --> 33:50.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% largely consists of people who are firemen. 33:50.600 --> 33:52.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% They're not scientists, 33:52.733 --> 33:56.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% they don't have any formal scientific training. 33:56.766 --> 33:59.966 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Extinguishing a fire and investigating a fire 34:00.000 --> 34:04.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% involve two different skill sets and two different mindsets. 34:04.766 --> 34:08.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: John Lentini is at the top of his field, 34:08.333 --> 34:10.133 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% one of a small group 34:10.166 --> 34:13.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% who reinvented the science of arson detection. 34:13.200 --> 34:17.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> So many determinations were based on hunches and feelings. 34:17.633 --> 34:20.166 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And... and these guys, they talk about, 34:20.200 --> 34:22.300 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% "Oh, you got to get in there and feel the beast." 34:22.333 --> 34:25.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I'm just embarrassed for their profession 34:25.766 --> 34:30.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% that this is the way people evaluate physical evidence. 34:30.633 --> 34:34.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> NARRATOR: The change in arson science began 34:34.066 --> 34:36.300 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% when scientists set their own fires 34:36.333 --> 34:39.733 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and studied how they burned. 34:39.766 --> 34:41.966 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% >> That was the first time 34:42.000 --> 34:44.433 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% science was ever really introduced 34:44.466 --> 34:47.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% into the mainstream of fire investigation. 34:47.533 --> 34:49.366 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: Like Lentini, 34:49.400 --> 34:54.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Dr. Gerald Hurst was one of the new fire scientists. 34:54.433 --> 34:58.000 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> Gerald Hurst is a chemist extraordinaire 34:58.033 --> 34:59.466 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% with a Ph.D. from Cambridge University. 34:59.500 --> 35:02.100 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> He's the idiosyncratic godfather 35:02.133 --> 35:03.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% of modern arson science. 35:03.833 --> 35:08.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% He's like this mad scientist who is not mad at all. 35:08.766 --> 35:10.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% >> NARRATOR: For years, 35:10.700 --> 35:13.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Willingham's supporters had tried to enlist Hurst's help. 35:13.700 --> 35:16.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% They finally gave him the state's arson report 35:16.700 --> 35:19.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% only weeks before the scheduled execution. 35:19.200 --> 35:22.766 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% >> Taking a look at the photographs 35:22.800 --> 35:26.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and video and testimony and fire investigation report, 35:26.866 --> 35:31.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it became apparent that we were dealing with a fire 35:31.200 --> 35:33.333 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% which had gone to flashover. 35:33.366 --> 35:35.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% >> NARRATOR: Flashover, 35:35.033 --> 35:41.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% the instant ignition of all combustible material in a room. 35:41.300 --> 35:45.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> Flashover had left natural patterns on the floor 35:45.566 --> 35:49.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that all post-flashover fires tend to leave behind, 35:49.466 --> 35:54.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and these had been misidentified as pour patterns. 35:54.333 --> 35:57.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And thus, the fire had been labeled an arson. 35:57.666 --> 36:01.800 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Hurst reviewed the report line by line. 36:01.833 --> 36:06.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> Here's your first bit of so-called arson evidence. 36:06.566 --> 36:11.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% This was typically interpreted in the old days 36:11.033 --> 36:13.233 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% as a pour pattern. 36:13.266 --> 36:16.033 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% In other words, someone poured gasoline 36:16.066 --> 36:18.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or some other accelerant down the hallway, 36:18.733 --> 36:21.566 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% out the front door and then ignited it. 36:21.600 --> 36:24.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% The prosecutor in this case literally believed 36:24.300 --> 36:27.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that the burn patterns on the floor 36:27.766 --> 36:29.366 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% were in the shape of a pentagram, 36:29.400 --> 36:31.800 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% like some satanic ritual. 36:31.833 --> 36:36.133 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% When you actually look at the burn pattern that they drew 36:36.166 --> 36:38.500 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and then you look at where the windows are, 36:38.533 --> 36:41.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% windows furnish ventilation to a fire, 36:41.733 --> 36:44.133 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and all they were looking at 36:44.166 --> 36:46.466 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% is what we call ventilation patterns. 36:46.500 --> 36:49.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: The original arson investigators had testified 36:49.700 --> 36:52.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that there was evidence of a liquid accelerant 36:52.033 --> 36:53.600 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% on the threshold of the porch door. 36:53.633 --> 36:57.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> A sample of wood debris from the base of the front porch 36:57.600 --> 36:59.300 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% was analyzed 36:59.333 --> 37:01.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and the results were positive for a combustible liquid, 37:02.000 --> 37:04.366 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% accelerant-kerosene. 37:04.400 --> 37:06.966 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% Well, that's quite understandable 37:07.000 --> 37:09.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% because the porch also had a barbecue on it, 37:09.666 --> 37:11.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and, of course, it would be charcoal lighter fluid there 37:11.766 --> 37:15.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% if there was a can of charcoal lighter fluid on the porch. 37:15.700 --> 37:18.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> NARRATOR: Hurst also addressed Willingham's 37:18.033 --> 37:19.433 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% lack of injuries. 37:19.466 --> 37:21.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> The question has been asked: 37:21.900 --> 37:27.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% why were Todd Willingham's feet not burned? 37:27.133 --> 37:30.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And the answer to that question is quite simple: 37:30.066 --> 37:34.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because if no accelerant was poured on the floor, 37:34.566 --> 37:37.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% the floor would have been relatively cool 37:37.900 --> 37:42.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% until shortly after flashover occurred in the bedroom. 37:42.066 --> 37:45.433 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% The last part of him that would have gotten any burn 37:45.466 --> 37:47.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% would have been his feet. 37:47.733 --> 37:51.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: And Hurst concluded the original investigators 37:51.966 --> 37:56.100 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% had not eliminated accidental causes. 37:56.133 --> 38:00.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> There had to be at least one electrical short in that room, 38:00.600 --> 38:03.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and since it was surface wiring, 38:03.666 --> 38:07.033 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% it would have been relative child's play to simply trace it. 38:07.066 --> 38:12.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Get a step ladder and trace it and go over it inch by inch 38:12.066 --> 38:14.166 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% until you locate the fault. 38:14.200 --> 38:16.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% That, in and of itself, 38:16.600 --> 38:19.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% is enough to toss a case out for arson. 38:19.766 --> 38:23.033 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Hurst had come to believe 38:23.066 --> 38:24.100 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% Todd Willingham was not guilty. 38:24.133 --> 38:27.833 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> Todd Willingham's case falls into that category 38:27.866 --> 38:31.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% where there is not one iota of evidence 38:31.733 --> 38:34.200 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that the fire was arson. 38:34.233 --> 38:36.500 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% Not one iota. 38:36.533 --> 38:41.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: Hurst completed his report on February 13, 2004, 38:41.533 --> 38:45.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% only four days before the scheduled execution. 38:45.033 --> 38:48.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> You know, all hope was lost, and we now have the answer. 38:48.733 --> 38:51.766 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% Getting the news from Dr. Hurst was... 38:51.800 --> 38:55.500 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% I mean, it was... it was definitely a high. 38:55.533 --> 38:57.400 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: Willingham's attorney 38:57.433 --> 39:01.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% filed a series of emergency last minute appeals. 39:01.133 --> 39:04.800 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> I thought that somebody would at least say, 39:04.833 --> 39:07.533 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% "Let's stop and, you know, 39:07.566 --> 39:10.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% let's at least hold on and let's take a look at it." 39:10.100 --> 39:12.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% I mean, we were talking about somebody that was convicted 39:12.500 --> 39:16.300 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% of something that wasn't a crime. 39:16.333 --> 39:20.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: While Willingham waited for the courts to decide, 39:20.733 --> 39:24.600 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% he received shocking news: Stacy had told reporters 39:24.633 --> 39:28.800 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% that she now believed he had murdered their children. 39:28.833 --> 39:32.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> She told me that she had changed her mind 39:32.733 --> 39:35.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and felt that Todd was guilty. 39:35.733 --> 39:38.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Stacy talked to Todd's private investigator, 39:38.433 --> 39:40.100 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% Tina Church. 39:40.133 --> 39:44.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> And she indicated that she had read the entire trial record 39:44.533 --> 39:46.566 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% in one day. 39:46.600 --> 39:52.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And I kept trying to tell her, "Well, we have new evidence. 39:52.833 --> 39:58.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% How would that make you feel to know that your former husband, 39:58.600 --> 40:01.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% the father of your children, is going to be executed 40:01.733 --> 40:04.233 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% for something he possibly didn't do?" 40:04.266 --> 40:09.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And she just really had convinced herself by this point 40:09.333 --> 40:11.466 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% he was guilty. 40:13.200 --> 40:15.566 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: It all started a few weeks before 40:15.600 --> 40:18.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% at a contentious meeting between Todd and Stacy. 40:18.700 --> 40:23.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% For the first time in 12 years, she visited Todd in prison. 40:23.200 --> 40:25.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He asked her not to come to the execution, 40:25.966 --> 40:28.533 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and he had one last request. 40:28.566 --> 40:32.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> He asked her if he could be buried by the children, 40:32.866 --> 40:35.266 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% and she refused. 40:35.300 --> 40:38.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% It seems like there was just a lot of hate 40:38.800 --> 40:43.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that came out in that interview. 40:43.466 --> 40:46.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: Then only one day before the execution, 40:46.300 --> 40:51.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% prosecutors filed a stunning document with the courts: 40:51.166 --> 40:54.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% an affidavit signed by Stacy's brother claiming that, 40:54.433 --> 40:56.233 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% according to Stacy, 40:56.266 --> 40:58.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Willingham had allegedly confessed 40:58.533 --> 41:02.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% during that final meeting at the prison. 41:02.666 --> 41:05.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It outraged Willingham. 41:05.033 --> 41:10.666 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% He denied it and prepared to die. 41:10.700 --> 41:15.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> He said, "They'll kill me and I'll go to heaven with my kids, 41:15.066 --> 41:19.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% because I don't want to live this life without them." 41:19.766 --> 41:21.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And he said, "God knows. 41:21.533 --> 41:24.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% God knows I didn't do this, and that's what matters." 41:28.366 --> 41:32.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: On February 17, the day of the execution, 41:32.566 --> 41:36.033 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% all of Willingham's final appeals failed. 41:36.066 --> 41:38.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% Despite the Hurst report, 41:38.200 --> 41:41.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the Texas courts and the United States Supreme Court 41:41.133 --> 41:43.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% refused to delay the execution. 41:43.666 --> 41:46.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> It was just, you know, the train had left the station 41:46.600 --> 41:48.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and nobody was going to stop it. 41:51.466 --> 41:53.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: And Texas Governor Rick Perry 41:53.500 --> 41:58.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% would not use his authority to delay the execution for 30 days. 41:58.233 --> 42:01.666 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> In Texas, you do not get elected 42:01.700 --> 42:03.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% by granting stays of execution 42:04.000 --> 42:07.633 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% to people like Cameron Todd Willingham. 42:07.666 --> 42:11.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You do not show any kind of mercy to criminals. 42:11.366 --> 42:13.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% You are hard on criminals. 42:13.333 --> 42:16.033 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And that gets you elected in this state. 42:16.066 --> 42:23.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> I was given the duty or task to call Mr. and Mrs. Willingham, 42:23.200 --> 42:27.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and it was one of the most really horrifying experiences 42:27.466 --> 42:33.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that I ever had to go through, to tell parents that their son, 42:33.466 --> 42:36.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% even though had been proven innocent, was going to die. 42:40.400 --> 42:43.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> NARRATOR: At 6:00, Cameron Todd Willingham 42:43.633 --> 42:45.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% was told that his time was up. 42:51.500 --> 42:52.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >> When he was asked by the warden 42:52.900 --> 42:54.266 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% if he had anything to say, 42:54.300 --> 42:56.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% then he went into the statement where... 42:56.033 --> 42:58.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that he said he had been wrongly convicted 42:58.766 --> 43:02.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% and that he was innocent. 43:02.600 --> 43:05.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> At some point, he looked over 43:05.466 --> 43:10.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and into the state's witness room, he noticed Stacy. 43:10.766 --> 43:12.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> She walked up to the window, 43:12.900 --> 43:15.733 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% and he says, "[Bleep] you, bitch." 43:15.766 --> 43:20.066 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> I believe that he felt in his heart that she had lied, 43:20.100 --> 43:24.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and her lie had cost, you know... 43:24.333 --> 43:27.233 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% helped cost him his life. 43:27.266 --> 43:30.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% >> Not only did he tell his wife 43:30.866 --> 43:34.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% that he hoped she would rot in hell, 43:34.033 --> 43:38.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% he said that he hoped that she would [bleep] rot in hell. 43:38.200 --> 43:40.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% I'd heard a lot of things 43:40.233 --> 43:43.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% over covering hundreds of these executions in Texas 43:43.300 --> 43:46.400 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% over the years, I'd never run into that. 43:46.433 --> 43:49.033 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Then the drugs began to be administered, 43:49.066 --> 43:53.366 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and within a few moments, he had been... 43:53.400 --> 43:55.066 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% he was unconscious, 43:55.100 --> 43:59.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and then a few moments later was pronounced dead. 43:59.700 --> 44:02.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> They told us that we could go to the funeral home 44:02.633 --> 44:05.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% when the state turned his body over to the funeral home 44:05.933 --> 44:08.333 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% and touch him while he was still warm, 44:08.366 --> 44:12.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% so that's what we did. 44:15.400 --> 44:20.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> And after I knew it was over, I went home to my kids 44:20.300 --> 44:24.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and never been so glad to see them in my life. 44:26.166 --> 44:28.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And I knew Todd was with his. 44:28.333 --> 44:31.233 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% He finally went home to his. 44:34.266 --> 44:38.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >>Did the state which executes more convicts than any other 44:38.100 --> 44:39.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% execute an innocent man? 44:39.200 --> 44:41.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> Did Texas execute an innocent man? 44:41.600 --> 44:43.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Explosive new charges over the execution of a man 44:43.166 --> 44:45.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% who at least half a dozen forensic experts 44:45.200 --> 44:47.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% now believe was innocent. 44:47.333 --> 44:49.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: In death, questions about Willingham's innocence 44:49.966 --> 44:53.100 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% would not go away. 44:53.133 --> 44:56.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% By 2008, the controversy had ended up 44:56.233 --> 44:58.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in a small state agency. 44:58.866 --> 45:02.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> The Texas Forensic Science Commission was designed to go in 45:02.300 --> 45:04.433 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and figure out what happened 45:04.466 --> 45:07.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and figure out how to keep it from happening again. 45:07.166 --> 45:10.300 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> We decided that we needed to hire an expert 45:10.333 --> 45:12.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% in the area of fire science 45:12.300 --> 45:15.133 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% to look at all of the data we could get pulled together 45:15.166 --> 45:17.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% and give us a report. 45:17.233 --> 45:20.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: The commission hired fire scientist 45:20.133 --> 45:24.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Dr. Craig Beyler to investigate the Willingham case. 45:24.700 --> 45:27.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Beyler agreed with other experts 45:27.133 --> 45:30.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% that there was no evidence of arson. 45:30.733 --> 45:33.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >> The Beyler report is point for point 45:33.900 --> 45:36.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% a confirmation of the original Hurst report, 45:36.766 --> 45:40.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that all 20 of the indicators were wrong. 45:40.333 --> 45:44.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: To the top fire scientists in the country, 45:44.300 --> 45:46.800 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% the implications were clear. 45:46.833 --> 45:49.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >> The state of Texas executed a man 45:49.766 --> 45:53.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% for a crime that they couldn't prove was really a crime, 45:53.400 --> 45:56.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and the evidence says, "This was an accidental fire." 45:56.700 --> 45:59.833 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% And if it was an accidental fire, 45:59.866 --> 46:02.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% it doesn't matter how many posters of Iron Maiden 46:02.600 --> 46:04.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Cameron Todd Willingham had on his wall, 46:04.933 --> 46:06.533 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% or Led Zeppelin, 46:06.566 --> 46:09.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% or whether he liked to play darts or drink beer, 46:09.800 --> 46:11.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% or whether he smacked his wife around; 46:11.666 --> 46:18.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% it only matters that the fire was not really a set fire. 46:18.033 --> 46:20.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> NARRATOR: Texas Governor Rick Perry 46:20.633 --> 46:22.800 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% was running for reelection. 46:22.833 --> 46:27.066 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> I knew from the beginning that it could be controversial 46:27.100 --> 46:31.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% simply because we had a person who had been executed, 46:31.166 --> 46:36.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and the science used in his case might be questionable. 46:36.066 --> 46:38.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And the implications are obvious. 46:38.300 --> 46:41.033 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% It doesn't take long to connect the dots there. 46:41.066 --> 46:44.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> NARRATOR: Just before the Beyler report 46:44.466 --> 46:46.000 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% was to be presented, 46:46.033 --> 46:49.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% the Governor fired the commission's chairman. 46:49.466 --> 46:51.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >> Around 4:00 or 5:00 p.m., I received a call 46:51.666 --> 46:53.400 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% from Doris Scott of the Governor's office. 46:53.433 --> 46:55.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% She said, "I just wanted to let you know 46:55.266 --> 46:56.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% "that the Governor thanks you 46:56.566 --> 46:58.166 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% for your service on the commission." 46:58.200 --> 47:03.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I said, "Okay, well, thank you for calling." 47:03.966 --> 47:08.500 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> This is a guy on his... on... in the death chamber. 47:08.533 --> 47:13.766 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% His last breath, he spews an obscenity-laced triad 47:13.800 --> 47:15.733 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% against his wife. 47:15.766 --> 47:18.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% That's the person that we're talking about here. 47:18.433 --> 47:21.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And getting all tied up in the process here 47:21.666 --> 47:24.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% is, frankly, a deflection 47:24.466 --> 47:27.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of what people across this state and this country 47:27.066 --> 47:28.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% need to be looking at. 47:28.733 --> 47:31.433 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% This was a bad man. 47:31.466 --> 47:35.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: In all, Perry fired three members of the commission. 47:35.266 --> 47:37.766 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% Then he installed a political ally, 47:37.800 --> 47:42.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% prosecutor John Bradley, as the new chairman. 47:42.200 --> 47:44.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> It wasn't until Rick Perry stepped in 47:44.466 --> 47:46.466 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and replaced three members of the commission-- 47:46.500 --> 47:51.500 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% and within days, the story had grown nationwide-- 47:51.533 --> 47:54.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% that it got to be a big story. 47:57.633 --> 48:00.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: Willingham's case is now at the heart 48:00.400 --> 48:03.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% of the national debate about the death penalty. 48:03.566 --> 48:06.166 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% >>Thank you for making this Todd's day. 48:06.200 --> 48:08.800 align:left position:40%,start line:83% size:50% >> Well, I think the implications 48:08.833 --> 48:11.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% for capital punishment are there, 48:11.133 --> 48:15.800 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% but the implications for non-capital cases 48:15.833 --> 48:17.200 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% are there, too. 48:17.233 --> 48:20.466 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% And that is, if we make a mistake, 48:20.500 --> 48:23.733 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% are we going to learn from it? 48:23.766 --> 48:26.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Or are we going to try to sweep it under the rug 48:26.833 --> 48:31.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and act like nothing happened? 48:31.466 --> 48:35.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> I can guarantee you we've got at least a couple hundred people 48:35.666 --> 48:39.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% in prison in this state alone for accidental fire, 48:39.133 --> 48:40.700 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and we need to get them out. 48:44.700 --> 48:46.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: But in Corsicana, 48:46.733 --> 48:50.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they made up their minds a long time ago. 48:50.066 --> 48:53.733 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> I believe that Todd Willingham 48:53.766 --> 48:56.566 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% got exactly what he deserved the day they put him to death. 48:56.600 --> 48:59.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I don't believe that he didn't get a fair trial 49:00.000 --> 49:05.100 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% in this town, and I don't... 49:05.133 --> 49:08.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It's really a shame we couldn't put him to death three times 49:08.133 --> 49:09.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% since he took three lives. 49:13.466 --> 49:17.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% >>Unusual to a normal fire burn... 49:17.100 --> 49:19.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> NARRATOR: And the original arson investigators 49:19.733 --> 49:24.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% still insist Willingham set the fire. 49:24.200 --> 49:27.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> I don't care how many degrees you may have, 49:27.533 --> 49:29.800 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% how many books you may have written, 49:29.833 --> 49:34.200 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% this was a set fire. 49:34.233 --> 49:41.100 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% We had a jury of 12 people that convicted a man 49:41.133 --> 49:44.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% who was later executed. 49:44.266 --> 49:48.233 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Was Mr. Willingham innocent? 49:48.266 --> 49:53.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% In my opinion, he was guilty as the day he was born. 49:58.333 --> 50:01.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> NARRATOR: This year, the case of Cameron Todd Willingham 50:01.866 --> 50:03.666 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% is back in the news. 50:03.700 --> 50:05.800 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% A new controversy erupted 50:05.833 --> 50:07.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% over the key testimony from Johnny Webb-- 50:07.933 --> 50:10.200 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that jailhouse informant 50:10.233 --> 50:13.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% who testified about Willingham's alleged confession. 50:13.200 --> 50:16.500 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% >> That was one of the two pillars 50:16.533 --> 50:20.100 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% that sent Todd Willingham to the Gurney. 50:20.133 --> 50:23.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >> NARRATOR: Last month, Webb agreed to a new interview: 50:23.266 --> 50:26.400 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% this one recanting his testimony. 50:26.433 --> 50:29.966 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> Willingham never, ever, not once told me 50:30.000 --> 50:32.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% that he killed his family. 50:32.733 --> 50:34.433 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% He never said that. 50:34.466 --> 50:36.266 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% I was told to say that. 50:36.300 --> 50:39.433 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% You know, I'm sorry I lied about it. 50:39.466 --> 50:41.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% I wish I could change that. 50:41.300 --> 50:43.300 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% I can't. 50:43.333 --> 50:46.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: Webb accuses the prosecutor, John Jackson, 50:46.233 --> 50:49.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% of making a deal in exchange for his testimony. 50:50.000 --> 50:53.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% At the time, Webb was himself facing charges 50:53.733 --> 50:55.233 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5% in a robbery case. 50:55.266 --> 50:58.300 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% >> And he says, "So they made me promises. 50:58.333 --> 51:02.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% "Promised that I would get taken care of. 51:02.466 --> 51:05.233 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% That they would get me out early." 51:05.266 --> 51:07.933 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> NARRATOR: And documents recently uncovered 51:07.966 --> 51:11.166 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% by the Innocence Project, a legal advocacy group, 51:11.200 --> 51:13.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% seem to support Webb's story. 51:13.200 --> 51:16.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >> You can't believe Johnny Webb just on his word. 51:16.366 --> 51:19.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% But when the documents corroborate what he's saying, 51:19.466 --> 51:23.066 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% that is when there's truth to the matter. 51:23.100 --> 51:25.200 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: Among the documents, 51:25.233 --> 51:27.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% evidence that prosecutor Jackson assisted Webb 51:28.000 --> 51:30.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% in the years after the trial. 51:30.300 --> 51:33.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% >> We start to see what really can best be described 51:33.400 --> 51:36.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% as a full court press from John Jackson 51:36.333 --> 51:39.500 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% to get Johnny Webb out of prison. 51:39.533 --> 51:41.066 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% >> NARRATOR: The Innocence Project 51:41.100 --> 51:43.433 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% has filed a formal complaint against Jackson, 51:43.466 --> 51:46.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and Jackson has filed a lengthy response 51:46.833 --> 51:50.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% with affidavits from witnesses disputing Webb's story. 51:50.166 --> 51:53.200 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% Jackson insists there was no deal, 51:53.233 --> 51:57.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% but does admit giving Webb "extraordinary assistance," 51:57.900 --> 51:59.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% claiming he had an obligation to protect a witness 51:59.833 --> 52:02.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% from threats in prison. 52:02.500 --> 52:04.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Jackson declined a request for a new interview. 52:04.666 --> 52:07.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% The Texas State Bar is reviewing the matter. 52:11.833 --> 52:14.000 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% >>Visit pbs.org/frontline 52:14.033 --> 52:16.766 align:left position:37.5%,start line:83% size:52.5% for more about the new revelations 52:16.800 --> 52:18.833 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% from jailhouse informant Johnny Webb. 52:18.866 --> 52:21.966 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% >> I was told to say that. 52:22.000 --> 52:24.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% >>Excerpts from the key documents in the case, 52:24.833 --> 52:28.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and extended interviews from the program. 52:28.033 --> 52:29.533 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% >> So-called arson evidence. 52:29.566 --> 52:31.766 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% >> The murder of his three children. 52:31.800 --> 52:33.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% >>Then connect to theFrontline  community. 52:34.000 --> 52:36.966 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Check us out on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, 52:37.000 --> 52:39.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and pbs.org/frontline. 52:45.433 --> 52:47.766 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55% Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH 52:47.800 --> 52:49.500 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% access.wgbh.org 52:49.533 --> 52:51.900 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% >>For more on this and otherFrontlineprograms, 52:51.933 --> 52:55.066 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% visit our website at pbs.org/frontline. 53:04.400 --> 53:08.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Frontline's"Death by Fire 2" is available on DVD. 53:08.033 --> 53:14.166 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% To order, visit shoppbs.org or call 1-800-PLAY-PBS. 53:14.200 --> 53:17.566 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Frontlineis also available for download on iTunes.